MARCHING TIMPANI LINE?! EMC Reacts to SCV 1978 Drumline (Fred Sanford "Building the Section")

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Building the Section - • Santa Clara Vanguard d...

[@EMCproductions]

Would YOU march a 32" timpani? I would.

[@kylianlol13]

Perhaps

[@juanarreguin1]

Hell no.

[@bumpus.-_-.2]

If I wanted scoliosis for a living then no thank you 😂😂

[@disneymatt01]

I feel a new video coming………😬😬👍🏼👍🏼

[@erbmiller]

I tried getting my old high school director to get us a marching timpani line so yes

[@joyousracket8767]

Hey there! My name is Miguel, and I’m bass #1 in this video. Thanks for the shout out! So, to answer some of your questions: This was definitely a video that featured Fred (and also Rob Carson in the 2nd video). I love Fred, but when he started ‘tech-ing’ in the video, I was thinking, “Hi Fred, long time no see.” :-) Even then, he was our Rock Star drum instructor, and he did very little tech-ing...except for this video. In ‘78 some of the sections had techs, some did not. Fred and Ralph Hardimon (you can see Ralph hanging out in the Rob Carson video companion to this one) wrote the charts and work on musical interpretation, dynamics, ensemble cohesion, etc. Fred & Ralph were kind of inseparable back then-I never knew where one started and the other began. :-) Ask me, “who wrote that drum solo”, and I could only answer ‘Fred or Ralph, man.’ The snares had Rob Carson as their tech-he only started marching when we had a guy quit early in the season on tour. The tenor line had Tony Romo, don’t know why he wasn’t there that day. Rob went on tour with us, and I’m pretty sure Tony did too. The rest of the sections had no techs, so the section leaders were the techs for the most part. Occasionally Ralph would swing by our sectionals if he wanted to work on something-very rarely would Fred ever do that, at least for the bass line. It’s possible that Fred did more of the section work with the mallets and tympani-those sections were his baby (this was the first year of.having four mallets-at the DCI level I believe Fred had a lot to do with that). Fred was much more involved when we got the whole ensemble together. He also was not at every rehearsal, even during the summer. My sense was that he was off doing clinics, or consulting with other corps and drum lines (like I said, he was our Rock Star instructor), but I’m not 100% sure of that...he just wasn’t around all the time. Also, this was the 2nd to the last year for trios; 1980 was SCV’s first year for quads (two tenor lines that year-high quads and low quad’s), and in ‘81 we added the spock drum. Also, I think someone else in the comments mentioned that the mallet line was one each of bells, xylo, vibes and marimba. First year at SCV for ‘grounded’ tympani was ‘81, mallets were ‘grounded’ in ‘83. First real pit (as we know it) at SCV was ‘84, with that amazing drum solo. Fred left after the 1980 season, Ralph took over after that until...I’m not 100% sure. I think for sure he did the ‘89 show and book, not sure after that. For sure he did the entire decade of the 80’s at SCV. Thanks again for the review/reaction! P.S. Did I mention we won corps and high drums that year? Well, we did :-)

[@EMCproductions]

Thanks for this info!

[@carnage6288]

great video & loved your insight in your comment. i had to like it... i was "like" #69 after all 😂👍

[@tubespax3568]

EMC did mention this, but how did some of you guys have rehearsal in jeans? That seems like it would be miserable.

[@joyousracket8767]

@@tubespax3568 Well, this was shot in Santa Clara in the San Francisco Bay Area. Not a super warm place even in the summer most days, and it definitely gets cold by the time of nighttime rehearsal outdoors. Once we were on the road in places it got hot (the Midwest, East coast, etc.) we were definitely wearing shorts :)

[@tubespax3568]

@@joyousracket8767 ah gotchu, thanks!

[@justin_hanson5750]

Marching Timpani, the fastest way to get a drumline member in a wheelchair

[@motomike71]

No, that's marching vibraphone or marching chimes.

[@DerDrBach]

Man, glad they don't have a marching 6 octaves marimba

[@motomike71]

@@DerDrBach True Story: The still Erik has of a guy marching chimes is Michael Boo while he was in the Cavaliers.

[@mallory3747]

HEY DUDE WHATS UP

[@justin_hanson5750]

@@mallory3747 WASSUp How is your back

[@KyleTheCadet]

I’m a simple man: I see an EMC video with the word “Timpani” in the title, I click.

[@thezencaliff8891]

Same, man, same

[@camdudley428]

@KyleTheCadet I wish you could be featured more on this channel! why do I feel like this is actually just you with a time machine?

[@thezencaliff8891]

@@camdudley428 indeed

[@raymondgonzalez5690]

Yessir

[@russbenoit6061]

Gotta love those rims being cranked down to practically shell level.

[@russbenoit6061]

@pearlsnaredrummer77 Ha! Same! May or may not have busted a few lugs tensioning heads that way...

[@MobilMobil-kv5ke]

Great observation. This is the origin of modern cast bearing edges on snare drums. Snare lines used so little arm motion that the depended on rebound to play fast and clean. Finger control was critical to the success of this technique. The down side was that the heads had to be cranked to the limits of engineering. Some of the problems were deformed rims (so they added more lugs). Pulled heads (so they improved the head-to-hoop engineering). Deformed bearing edge (so they shrunk the diameter of the shell). It was Newtonian percussion, action and reaction.

[@joyousracket8767]

@pearlsnaredrummer77 -I marched in the bass line in ‘78, and our snares were definitely doing that that year. I think that might have stopped in ‘81 when we went to the Ludwigs with those massive rims.

[@marial8235]

@@wm.dennis9900Exactly what we did. 😂😂😂

[@nathantaylor2825]

I actually have a set of marching tympani that I got from a DCA Corp

[@danielperry7600]

Have old friends I marched with in that line. On the marching mallet players you have a bell, a xylophone, marimba and a vibe player. A word about matched grip, started with the corps Flamingos that turned in to the Argonauts from Salem Oregon. I think the year was either 1973 or 74. They were also the corps that marched dual snare drums back in 1976 each snare drummer carried both a 14 x 10 and a 15 x 12 snare drum. Also the place modern day carriers started. An alumni of the corps Hadley Lovell invented the first vest carrier as well as tilt tubes for snare drums. He went on to manufacture carriers for Ludwig and Remo. Any of the older white Ludwig vest carriers or the silver sparkle Remo carriers were built by him.

[@RedDogMamaHD]

Thanks for sharing your memories! 🤗

[@teacheroxford]

😳

[@thezencaliff8891]

That is so cool my freshman year of drumline we had those older sparkle carriers bro so cool to hear the history

[@danielperry7600]

Yes after the Argonauts started playing matched it started to spread. Most of the northwest corps switched over to matched within 3 years as the guys that played on Argonauts line started branching out to teach other lines.

[@CharlieGroh]

Ghost. What a dude.

[@motomike71]

"Were there techs?" Fred might've had assistants, but I don't think they had as complex of a staff as they do now. Section leaders had a lot of instructional responsibility. Even when I marched in 1992 there were sometimes tech for each section, but it wasn't always consistent. Our pit instructor only went on the second half of tour with us, but we did have a tech to clean. And yeah, jeans were work at camp even through the 1980s.

[@popeyesailor9571]

We had a timpani instructor with BD.

[@motomike71]

150K subscriber challenge: You buy a set of marching timpani and add them to the Carmen Heights drum line.

[@SeanLaMontagne]

Lol he would never

[@MobilMobil-kv5ke]

It’s interesting that your first observation is on technique, specifically the “all wrist” technique. In 1974, 75 and 76 the Cavaliers were outliers in that they were using a more open technique with full arm movement. During that era it was derisively called “Cavalier Style”.

[@marial8235]

That’s remember watching Cavies in 83 and was flabbergasted at how much arm they were using.🥁

[@electromotive4]

When you got rob Carson as a snare section leader there’s no need for a drum tech

[@nathanielabadilla7029]

What’s really funny is that he kept telling us the story where he originally actually WAS on instructional staff in 78’ for his age out, but for whatever reason that, I don’t know , that he just decided to hop in mid-season. What a bad-ass

[@italomartinez3060]

Rob Carson was my tech

[@lifeonmars4151]

he became a PIPE-ORGAN master as well = just saying

[@mrrodgers5871]

@@nathanielabadilla7029 you get a similar situation with Namaky at Glassmen in '01. Was the tech, then the center snare. God, what a drumline.

[@marial8235]

@@mrrodgers5871 You were lucky in those days to have two drum instructors. We had an arranger, instructor and one tech.

[@BEElaine1008]

We had two marching timpani one year in HS. And yeah, the snares used slings...we didn’t have harnesses until ‘79....and our Triple were older and bigger, and they used 2 slings in an X pattern.

[@epicdoggames9667]

Marched in two bands .. one was my high school and one was a regional band. And for all the different drums (snare, bass, and trio), we wore slings, no harnesses. To keep the snare from bouncing around too much, we had a metal band you strapped your leg to. I use to have the biggest bruise on my left leg from that damn thing ... always getting my skin pinched by it.

[@charleslawrence9825]

You could adjust slings hookup (and leg rest position) to get the snares FLAT before carriers came out.

[@BEElaine1008]

@@charleslawrence9825 yes, our drummers would hook the two ends in different spots as opposed to the normal use of tge sling....it worked fine

[@SeanLaMontagne]

that's what interests me: What high school programs looked like. DCI has always been the uppercrust, and high schools would do their own achievable version of whatever the top corps were doing. Hearing that one year you had 2 timpani tells me it wasn't a necessity, but something larger lines were more likely to have, and smaller lines might have 1 or 2 if any at all. Kind of like marching cymbals today.

[@funny_monke6]

One of those marching bells is actually a marching vibraphone! And if I'm not mistaken one of the xylophones is actually a small marimba.

[@eldridgepearman8186]

"Did they only have one percussion instructor?" 90% of High School Band director just laughed. I spent the majority of my career as band director, percussion caption head, guard caption head, etc...

[@user-yq3fz9ch5q]

My Corps had 1 instructor and the drum sergeant assisted, same for horn line (Hy Dreitzer) Drum Major would put out fires when needed.

[@Zequintiny]

Is that normal? My high school had one staff member for each marching section and front ensemble had a few. There was one staff member for each section of the guard.

[@zettabyte0551]

@@Zequintiny Most average highschool marching band programs have 1 director for every section. The number of staff usually depends on the size of the school, like these big 6A Texas schools will have a ton of staff and these small schools in like South Carolina will have only 1 staff member for the entire band.

[@Zequintiny]

@@zettabyte0551 To be more specific, I meant each drum. Like one snare tech, one tenor tech, one bass tech, one cymbal tech, one Flub tech, and a few for front ensemble (keyboards and auxiliary). I think the brass had like one for high brass and one for low brass.

[@zettabyte0551]

@@Zequintiny that is not normal at all 😂, you’re school must’ve been huge!

[@brucejamilkowski2266]

If I remember correctly, they marched 1 xylo, 1 marimba, 1 bell set and 1 vibraphone . Lezghinka (the full feature shown) was amazing. Enjoy your videos immensely!

[@santosguzman107]

what does he know about mallets , i live in San Antonio , at 61 years old and still march bells and xylo

[@BruceRichardsonMusic]

Bridgemen was "the" drumline of that era. Their approach on the field was also far less conservative. Santa Clara changed a LOT over just a few years. They went from one of the more conservative visual design shops to one of the more advanced over just a few years. Fred was a great guy. He spent quite a few evenings at my house in the late '70s and early '80s. He could party. I'll leave it at that. He ended up at my house because he'd tell the Percussion prof at my school he wanted to get a little partying in...and, well, that was my place. The seventies were hard partying times. One of the sad things about the media being VHS and sound quality being usually crap is that you don't really get a sense of that sound. I would not necessarily characterize changes in the drums as "advancement." I would just call it changes. Today's sound is wildly tighter and more dry, owing to the smaller, stiffer drums overall. They are not even remotely as loud or resonant, though. Even with the bad audio quality, try to focus in on the way the drums sound combined into the full ensemble. Just from an acoustic standpoint, there are some realities worth noting. You pointed out the tri-toms were cranked for the size. It gives them a lot of overtone sustain (which actually was more noticeable in person). That helped carry tone through the ensemble. Same thing with larger snares and mylar heads. Dramatically "wetter" and more resonant (and of course, you'd pop them if you tried to crank them up like modern shares). But everything about the writing changed, too, resulting from pitching the snares up and drying them out. Some of it's cool, but as usual, there are tradeoffs. The biggest one is that you don't really have a "snare" role being played by the snare line in pop-oriented books. Those 15 inch drums with mylar heads could be used for backbeats and pop rimshots. You hardly ever see a cymbal line going in to play a "hi-hat" role for a snare line any more, because it's hard to justify a point for it now. That changed jazz/rock books a lot, from a voicing and writing standpoint. And yeah, those big drums in big quantities could just CRANK on volume. So that was a loss. That's why I characterize these things as change rather than necessarily advancement. I don't like to prejudice either one. Oh, you mentioned that unison timp thing. Yeah, hearing it live with the entire line (and brass), you'd get it immediately. That's another huge resonance thing. When the entire drumline would be playing a figure in unison, those unison timps added HUGE resonance to the line. It melded with the bass drums (probably also in unison), and hit you like a gigantic subwoofer. That part of the sound doesn't come through on any of the recordings of the era, no matter which ones. It wasn't even the mics or techniques. It was mainly broadcast standards. Everything had to be so crunched for analog TV and video that none of those frequencies or dynamics could be in the final product. There is just literally no way to experience it. You would have to dig out a set of period drums, take them into a stadium in that quantity and tuning, and just recreate it to really get a feel for how it sounded. I guarantee you it wasn't terrible. It was just different and cool in its own way. Also, that was right before a period of doing CRAZY stuff to snares to pitch them down. Cutting two or three-inch holes in the shells, adding on resonator/reflector components. Low-pitch snare was a thing in '80s pop, and I'm sure that was part of what drove it. But also, there were some lines that just killed that low tuning in an ultra rudimental way, and the resonance of it was huge with a 10-12 player snare line. Nothing I have said should be construed as an old v new school argument or prejudice. Just trying to neutrally describe the sonic differences, since there's not any convenient way to hear them. Just think of the sound of a modern drum line live, and how actually little of the sensation of it that even a modern recording translates. You can't really feel it. There's just no playback medium that can recreate the acoustic phenomenon of it. Multiply it by a zillion for the pre-digital period of video and broadcast standards. If you were watching that video in the period, you'd be listening to it through a signal mastered four to six inch full-range speaker, and about 3-4 watts of RMS audio power. Think about mastering a recording for that output medium. That's why you can't tell what anything of the period (in drum corps) actually sounded like.

[@SeanLaMontagne]

I wish I could archive this comment

[@tomshea8382]

This was actually the late 70s, and Santa Clara and Fred Sanford/ralph Hardimon were the defining drumline of this era. Dennis DeLucia and Bob Dubinski and the Bridgemen were the drumline of the early 80s.

[@YogaWithGail]

Wow, so that took me way back in the day of the late seventies early eighties. Both Ponca City, Ok, and Oklahoma State University percussion line marched their xylophones and bells. I just remember the two girls in both HS and college with massive complaints about backaches. They had us orchestra kids (violins, violas) participate in the marching band as flag and rifle core. Did that one year at OSU and was able to translate/transfer it to playing the marching cymbals. Fun! Loving this content!

[@DocBree13]

I was in the OSU marching band in 1990 (as a 5th year transfer/senior lol)! I don’t think the orchestra was still the flags by that time (which I think may have been called the color guard and I don’t think we had rifles, anymore - sorry, my memory is crap these days). Edit: by the way, I’m an Oklahoma (age 13-grad school) to Texas transplant, too - but originally from Ark City, KS (a little north of Ponca)

[@YogaWithGail]

@@DocBree13 Pretty cool! I absolutely love marching in the band. My 16 year old is on drum line and percussionist in their honor band. Trying to get her to consider OSU, but pretty far away, as I too transplanted to Texas!

[@bobc08]

I was in SCV from 1977 to 1979. We didn't have anything close to the number of "staff" that are out there today. Our Horn line had 2, sometimes the drum major would step in also. Drums had Fred, Ralph and Rob until he jumped into the line. And the color guard had 2 or 3 on staff. We had 3 doing M&M Pete, Charlie and Gary. and Gail did all the music arrangements. So that's maybe a dozen on staff.

[@RobertVee]

We marched in pre-seacon SCV 1979 (First Timpani) my buddy Andrew Siseroz went on tour (Bass Drum) I stood Fred up! 🙃

[@electromotive4]

Look at the old school slingerlands and the old school bass mallets very cool

[@MaggieCraft]

My band director was literally in the timpani line.

[@classicalytrumpet9190]

Hows his back?

[@MaggieCraft]

He has drop foot now.

[@kisterdrums]

I don’t know if it’s just me, but I prefer the vintage style of drum corps in every way. The technique, mylar snare heads, the timpani, marching mallets, everything. I wish I was alive back then. It was a lot cheaper too 😂

[@user-yq3fz9ch5q]

I marched the same year. The sound was phenomenal.....to me. We had a full kitchen the boosters, Mon and dad's would cook for us during rehearsals. You'd enjoy that era, I did, I still hum show songs as I drive.

[@OldManAP]

And G piston/rotor horns. As an arranger, that’s a fun challenge to write for. How can I avoid the third valve that we don’t have in THIS chord? And the next chord, and the next chord... Those hornlines played in some WEIRD keys to get around that.

[@user-yq3fz9ch5q]

@@OldManAP Hy Drietzer Drum Corps Hall of Fame, was my junior corps arranger. He'd have a mouth piece for each horn and would walk up to you ask for your horn and adjust the slides on the spot. I never touched them after that.

[@OldManAP]

@@user-yq3fz9ch5q what year(s) did you march? Were those G/D horns? Did part of the section have rotors in different keys than the rest of the section? I know that’s a thing that was done in some corps for a while, where everyone had a piston in D, but some rotors were in F#, some in F, and some in E. Enabled you to have more chromatic pitches available, but only on some of the horns at the same time.

[@user-yq3fz9ch5q]

@@OldManAP 77-79 yes some of the horns were keyed at d and f#. I was not an all to be all horn player. Had not learned to read music. I actually walked past the Corps HQ for years, and finally got up the nerve to ask for a slot. 3rd bari, actually first horn issued was an Olds Euphonium that looked like a mini contra. Learned the music by rote. Constantly practicing, the section leader, Larry took extra time to help me hear the notes and wrote it out as letters instead of scale notes. Made the move to a standard bari valve rotary, then capped out as 2nd bari 2 valve. The chance to march comp, parades and opening the seasons at Yankee Stadium for the bombers was the crown we never won at DCI.

[@davidku7164]

The only reason I log on to my old youtube account is to like EMC’s videos 2 times

[@machinistmikethetinkerer4827]

brings back memories. Blue Knights Drum and Bugle Corps, St. Paul, MN.1975-1980. We were a merger between the old St. Paul Scouts and Belles of St. Mary Drum and bugle Corps. DCI, Drum Beauty and all the other competitions all over the midwest. I loved it. And yes, we had marching Timpanis. They had hand cranks and slide scales for markers to tune them in during a show. For cadence to practice, we used to drum the rhythm chant from the wicked witch of the west's guard march from the movie. lol I remember watching all the big corps during DCI. Madison Scouts, Phantom Regiment, Blue Devils, The Kilties from Racine, Wausau Story, SCV, The Caveliers, Garfield Cadets, and so many others...those were great days.

[@eclecticmn4838]

I loved the St. Paul Scouts. They were good. I also miss the wetter, more resonant drums. Listen to the 1967 Cavaliers snare roll solo in Bully sometime. I recall the wicked witch rhythm chant. 1971 Madison played a wizard of oz theme. We had a free day at Niagara Falls, Canadian side. There are tunnels under the falls. They rent very heavy fire fighter style rain coats with hat and heavy boots because of the heavy mist. We were walking down the tunnel, fell into marching in unison, maybe 8 abreast, chanting that chant, swinging our arms, stomping loudly. It echoed. People were terrified, hugging the walls and their children. Not the worst thing we ever did.

[@kevinwilley968]

I marched snare in Anaheim and Argonauts in the 80's, both matched grip. When I marched Kingsmen Alumni Corps in 2007 we had timps on the field. Believe it or not the Dynasty Tenors we had were heavier than the timps. I love hearing those 80's snares. They sounded line snare drums back then. Lezghinka is still one of my favorite features.

[@PuffyOne1898]

Triple toms: the gateway from flub to tenor

[@johnkauffman7415]

re staff size: Can't speak to SCV, but for Bridgemen that year we had five instructors. Below annotations somewhat clouded by 40 years of new crap stuffed into memory. Dennis Delucia, obviously. The man that moved up into Sanford's role in marching percussion and then took it the next step. I never heard him raise his voice. I think his formal degree was in econ but he had a street degree in motivational psychology. Also had a very methodical way of explaining. His description of a problem & solution was presented like a polished paragraph that was logically built and devoid of loose adjectives. I never heard the man say that a passage had to be "cleaner." It was always "here is where we have a problem and it is caused by xyz and here is what we need to do to fix it. I wrote an exercise for you to work on it." Bob Dubinski - went on to Star? He was super-fast at analyzing a problem. I was practicing once and he was walking by and without even pausing called back over his shoulder that it was the second note on that run that should be flatted. Pat Scallon - the word was that our cadence was his thesis at Yale - no idea if that is true. I might be able to remember name of that cadence tune.... come on brain.... searching through fog... not Cachaça... vaguely recall was something latin-ish..... alas, tis gone. Anyone know? Rob Muller - keys and tymp - the coolest guy on staff - never upset, just knew the problems and worked on them with us. (Well, except that one time re my tick going back on about bar 20 of Spanish Dreams, the reaction to which I do remember very clearly after 40 years.) Mr. (Robbie) Thompson - bass drums - I think he was instructor of old Blessed Sac? It almost seemed his role was because Dennis liked him around. At first I didn't get why this guy that seemed to have fallen out of the 50's (greased-back hair, bomber jacket, pegged pants) was on staff. But over the season he became an example of how to be a thoughtful contributor in an emeritus role. That has been useful for me, now at 60. A couple times a man came to consult - I think was Don Angelica. I don't know role, he and instructors talked. I do remember the first time he showed up he said he wanted to get an idea of how well we played told us to march a lap around the stadium playing 16th notes a tutti. The stadium as in the outside parking lot, not the track. No exercises, no rudiments, just 15 minutes of 16th notes by everyone but tymp and cymbals - completely exposed. I don't know what he learned about our technique but he sure as shit learned about our endurance. If adult staff wasn't there for part of a session then instruction was by drum captain Mike Mindiak, the oldest of 3 brothers in the line. I don't know how snares / tenor duties were split between Dennis, Bob and Pat. I do know Dennis worked the snares during the winter. In October when I moved to Bayonne, Dennis asked me to play for him to see my chops. This was in a high school gym playing on the leather of a gymnastics horse. I kid you not. The other time I was checked out was when one of the veterans asked me to play some rudiments on the back of a bus seat. And I practiced with a veteran snare at his home, sitting on the edge of a bed playing on footballs held between our knees and with the TV on. I guess the drum heads were so mushy back then that it didn't make much difference if you played on a snare, leather horse, football or bus seat. Snares had slings. Carriers for mallets were these crude fiberglass shields. Looked like body armor from Iraq. No adjustments - it fit or it hurt - "you're in Jersey now so don't be a sissy about it." Side note *** with some opinion and forgetfulness *** I think it is a great testament to skills of Hoffman, Delucia, Kirchner to develop a corps of local kids from nothing in '75 to top 4 in '77. It wasn't like 100 drummers from across the world sending audition tapes for snare slots. Just making a long distance phone call from my home in PA to the director in Bayonne cost me an hour of my wages. The way I got in was to just move to Bayonne and get a shit job and live at the YMCA and attend every practice and try to start being accepted and be lucky. Back then very few drummers knew anything about music theory but I had taken a HS course so knew basics of scales and chords. One of the two guys on mallets had aged out and Dennis put me on bells. I will be forever grateful.

[@gbrhythm]

Thanks for sharing all of that! I marched snare with Bayonne in 1984, the last year with Dennis Delucia still at the helm. Your recounting of events from 1978 is fascinating to me. I don't think most people realize just how good the '77, '78 and '79 lines were. Only recently have some decent quality videos of those years popped up. Man, those charts were dense! There was some serious drumming going on. I still love listening to the shows. But to answer your question: The cadence was "Carnavalito" from the band Caldera. The album with that track is Sky Islands (1977). I know that Pat Scallon arranged it but I've never heard that Yale story before, so I can't vouch for that. Pat Scallon was on staff in '84 for the first part of winter, and was also working with the DCA Bushwacker's line, but then ended up moving to the west coast. Lo and behold, we arrive at DCI mid-west that summer and there was Pat on staff with the Blue Devils! We had a rough go of it in '84, as the corps was only barely holding it together. Money was running out, and so went much of the staff. Dubie ending up going on tour with Avant Garde for the second half of that summer (because they could pay him), and Pat Petrillo stepped up to fill his shoes with us. I could go on and on with stories about 1984, but in the end we finished in 14th place in prelims, missing out on finals, even though our drum line came in 4th behind only Cadets, 27th Lancers and Blue Devils. It was one helluva wild ride that year, though. Memories for a lifetime. The saving grace was that one of our snare drummers, Pete Castellano, won 1st place in individuals with a score of 99.5. That was a huge boost of moral for all of us. There's a video of some of his playing on my channel. (I was the one who originally posted the 1978 Vanguard clip from above. There's a link to it, and my channel, in EMC's description.) Cheers!

[@samsignorelli]

Carriers were just coming in during the late 70s (as you can see by the fact that the tenors and keys have then, but the snares and basses don't)...don't know who used them first. Bridgemen never left slings due to their long coat uni design. They COULD have worn carriers over the coats (I think the DCA version did), but that might've ruined the look of the uni. Any dutting you hear is coming from Fred....up until 1984, ONLY the DMs or color guard captain could vocalize on the field (hence the 1 point penalty BD took in 82 when they deliberately did a "HUH" in "One More Time, Chick Corea" at a show during the late regular season....they went undefeated that year and were pounding everyone, so they decided "yeah,,,why not this one time?"). Section techs back then were not a thing like they are now....staff were a LOT smaller. When I was in BD in 84, brass was run by Wayne Downey and Jack Meehan. with occasional help by Ray Atlas, battery by Tom Float and Scott Johnson, pit by Katherine Float, guard by Shirley Stratton, and visual by everyone with Todd Swanson, Dave Gibbs, John Oppedisano, and Steve Sanger. There may have been a couple of others, but that was the main crew.

[@cupodouble5433]

Would’ve been better if it was called “No DUT November”

[@popwiz3029]

Maybe "No Dut December"?

[@nathanielderonvil4785]

@@popwiz3029 how about “Don’t Dut December”

[@richdaley9982]

Great video! I am a horn player but I find these really entertaining. How about reacting to 92 Cadets Rehearsing the Contemporary Percussion Ensemble? That was one of my years in Cadets (but not the drumline).

[@gothard5]

Ah, the tri-toms. There were a couple sets of those at my high school back in the very early 2000s. They actually had people march both tri-toms and quads well into the 1990s.

[@awhybrew99]

Snarelines didn't switch to traditional grip until the mid-80's. Thanks for taking an old fart like me back to the day!

[@QuasarEE]

I was privileged to attend a percussion camp in 1994 which was a stop on the Yamaha Sounds of Summer tour which was taught by Fred Sanford himself (he founded the program). That event had a huge impact on me - I recently finished writing a concerto that's named after it.

[@nathanielsmith237]

I'm pretty sure Rob Carson (the snare section leader and one of the guys doing the voiceovers) was also a sort of "tech" by that point. He's featured in the Building the Individual video. You should react to that one too!!!

[@danocallaghan6875]

Back in the summer of '76 in NAS ROTA SPAIN I took the school music departments' only 2 beaten to hell tymps home to fix them for extra credit. Took them completely apart, banged out the enormous dents, cleaned out all the parts and then painted the kettles with black Rustoleum textured primer, and proudly brought them back for the new school season. The band director damn near kicked me out of percussion. But we did receive 3 Dresden the following year so then we had 5!

[@charleslawrence9825]

So much respect for Fred Sanford!!! One of my favorites!! He did have other working with him at this time but the McCormick people wanted the focus to be on him. By the way, not just 2 bells also 1 vibe [modified] and xylo.

[@nathan_khoury]

this is cool, and i would have never known about this had emc not made a video about it. thanks eric.

[@seanmundy9829]

You gotta send this film to New Zealand Girl since she has reacted to a lot of DCI and WGI videos recently. She is new to the activity and eager to learn more about. I think this video will be great for to watch and see an old school behind the scenes look. Would love to her react to the amazing teachings of Fred Sanford. Even if she doesn't understand the majority of what they're being told, she still understands what the general gist of it is.

[@jonroberts2913]

New Zealand Girl reacts for payment. If you tip her the right amount, she will react to a video of a drum rolling down a hill.

[@SwimminWitDaFishies]

Thank you for posting!! A drum corps history lesson is always appreciated! 👏🏻

[@Cavie1974]

I marched two years of marching tympani with Cavaliers in the 70's. Split parts in both the tympani and bass sections became much more sophisticated in a very short time span. Santa Clara and Anaheim had two of the best tymp lines and I would say with all modesty that our section was in that same league from about 1974 and on. To answer your question about "techs" we usually had one "assistant instructor" for each section.

[@williammurrayiii1395]

My uncle marched timpani for the Matadors back in the 70's. It was going to see him play that got me interested in playing marching drums.

[@cjt217]

oh man, the size of those cymbals lol

[@charleslawrence9825]

And the HUGE sound!

[@michaelengle9062]

I marched tenors for the first time in 1982, last time in 1994 (aside from doing an alumni performance last November) during that time, the height of the typical tenor rig has gone literally from nipple height to nut height. I don't know how our wrists took the abuse.

[@drumdiscussion7776]

Great! This is a classic upload of marching corps history.

[@williammurrayiii1395]

My uncle marched Timpani back then for the Matadors. Going to see them play was what got me so interested in marching drumline.

[@jamesisbrandt9148]

I was in Guardsmen Drum and Bugle Corps Drum Line from 1968-1974, and we ALWAYS had just the one Drum Instructor. We had one staff member that did all the repairs on all of the instruments. Yes, I carried a tympani with straps, not a harness.

[@imchronicallyme1339]

For DCI fan this was so cool to watch. My nephew has made it two years in a row in DCI and we just love these videos.

[@RobertVee]

Fred was the man with a plan! 😍

[@craigmoyer864]

Proud to say I marched Timp (No Y) in High School in 82. We had a huge drum line for the time.

[@noahwilliams9747]

THATS MY HIGH SCHOOL MARCHING BAND AT 11:59 (Broken Arrow, Oklahoma)

[@charleslawrence9825]

Hey EMC you mentioned using match grip on drums with slings at 1:50-2:05. Notice that the drums are carried level. This was done by making / using leveler bars and connecting the sling in 2 places. Some corps also adjusted the position of the leg rest too. That made match grip possible way before the development of the snare carriers

[@peierple]

I've always been a lone drumline instructor! I write all my stuff for the kids. every drumline I've worked with have always been unique as in we never played anything being played by other drumlines! Its pretty tough being the only instructor for many sections, but its well worth it in the end!

[@DennisJohnsonDrummer]

This was an instructional video, so my guess is that Fred was the only instructor shown because of the format. I'm sure he had a tech or two working with the sections. They just weren't shown in this video.

[@turtledudelogan]

This is cool to see because I had a teacher that was on that timpani line

[@willspeck7796]

We got a marching timpani at our school it’s like 50 years old

[@motomike71]

This is from a series of videos. You should check out the rest. One video has an explanation for why they were using matched grip. Another has snare section leader Rob Carson demonstrate rudiments from slow to fast to slow.

[@edwardhiggott]

Having marched a top 12 corps in 78 I really enjoyed your take on how things worked back then. As for drum techs, my corps had the head guy and a couple assistants. The weren't really assigned to any section. But staffs were generally much smaller. So much has evolved. Wrist action, super high triples, members mostly wearing long jeans in the sun, slings, etc. SCV won drums at finals also. Scoring a 19.10 out of 20.00

[@boilerdawg]

I appreciate the Blue Stars picture near the end!

[@eclecticmn4838]

I knew a guy who played concert cymbals for Madison. Imagine doing some weight lifting exercise, FOREVER. He ended the season looking like the Hulk. He carried a pen knife; to trim the callouses on his hands.

[@Crusader8284]

Dude, if you liked the melodic content of the tymp line, you should watch '81 27th Lancers!

[@actionhero27]

I started marching Lancer Cadets that year. Heard the 81 show so much I could have stepped in to play the tympani parts in Crown Imperial

[@RuShEd_AltF4]

Man.... Most chill director

[@scv1981]

Fred had a full staff. Many became legends. Like Ralph Rardimon and Rob Carson. Video was instructional, so Fred was singled out since he was the principle.

[@oldguydoesstuff120]

This brings back some memories. I was in high school in 1978, and in the marching band. We had the band director and his assistant. The director focused on the music, while the assistant taught the marching. That was the entire staff. Section leaders definitely played a big role. In my senior year, I was the clarinet section leader. Lots of good times. As a band, we tended to follow the trends set by DCI, both in marching style and music choices. We were pretty good, far from great. Competed in a couple of local competitions every year. Being in the LA/Orange County area, there were a lot of good bands to compete against. A few of our horn players auditioned for DCI units over the years. I think maybe one or two were accepted. The most fun part was playing the halftime show at football games. We only learned one show - the competition show - expanding it for each game as we learned it. Made for great dress rehearsals for the competitions.

[@billn911]

I got a chance to be Fred Sanford's judges assistant in 1996, we talked in between the performances about old school SCV and various DCI topics. I gushed about the famous drum feature so we played the drum feature you hear @10:55 with our hands on our legs. He was a great guy RIP Mr. Sanford.

[@marial8235]

I had a similar experience. He did a seminar with our line and he was really a nice man. RIP

[@stevenhatcher9133]

I just knew you were gonna upload

[@Dizzyphan]

I marched lead soprano in the 78 Anaheim Kingsmen. Every corps back then had a timp line. There was even I&E competition for timp lines back then. Also 78 was the first year allowing 2 upright piston valves on baritones with the sopranos starting in 77. High mark times started lowering this year as well. Except US.....we had high mark times in everything in our show. Very exhausting especially in hot humidity in Whitewater. If memory serves, I do believe Fred Sanford was with us in the early 70's too.

[@elijaha2246]

YES! Marching bells! My favorite!

[@jandyb79]

I’m always amazed at the advancement of marching percussion from the late 70s to the mid to late 80s. By that point, front and field ensembles more or less took on the appearance we still utilize today.

[@miadearing1701]

It’s so funny watching the tri toms play cus their so high up and then only their wrist are moving it looks almost comical😂😂

[@Docdug]

Our hs bands drum section only had one instructor... and camp was always a blast. We didn’t have any marching timpanis, though some schools in the district did. They were for concert band.... oh the memories! Marching band was fun but nothing beat pep band. And once you’re a jr you were practically guaranteed a spot!

[@danbailey8182]

A corps I was in called The Bluewater Buccaneers was marching and active at this time. I could be wrong but at this time you had 1 instructor running his program and there were few if any techs. I cannot recall at this time any techs but a few years later there they were. This was during the transition time when corps did not do the orchestra stuff you see now. Also most people in the corps came from the area the corps was from. Shortly after this about 1980 or so you saw people travel to join corps. About this time we saw the techs come to life with the head instructor working with the snare line, then the full line

[@houstonhorse7877]

A lot of the corps then only had one instructor per section, with the members(especially section leaders) highly responsible for practice, and learning the parts.

[@thIDthIRreenactor]

My school marching band uses marching bells they sound cool

[@electromotive4]

Went by xymox warehouse in Rancho Cucamonga yesterday and it’s been gutted completely emptie they claim there moving up north , I’m so mad

[@thisisntme]

I remember watching this when i was in high school.

[@cartoonpower0]

I got bored like 2 days ago and searched up "old dci" and ended up watching this same video, and now you make a video on it, interesting.

[@xdanulicious4275]

omg those plates look Huge!

[@charleslawrence9825]

So was the sound!!

[@stephensmith6790]

Each section had a section leader who would act as "techs" it could still be that way today...

[@dsudontfelsgud8880]

Little story for ya. So back in 6th grade we had a concert for the school of our Christmas program i believe. The concert went great but after the concert we had to return our equipment to the band room. I took the timpani down the ramp, I hit a lip at the bottom of the ramp. The timpani tipped and I went with it. The foot pedal went straight into my.....ouch area. I had to go home that day

[@DennisJohnsonDrummer]

This was the era when I marched under Tom Float in the Spirit of Atlanta.(1980) Slingerland and Ludwigs were the only drum brands being used at the time by the top lines. As for your question about techs- we had Float overseeing everything and a tenor tech as well as a bass tech. The timp section was pretty much teched by the other techs and I don't remember if we had a mallet tech or cymbal tech? Memories.

[@arfshesaid4325]

Rogers with Premier to follow soon

[@sarniasam]

All the top lines had techs for each segment of the line back in the 70s. Usually the caption head was the snare tech. De La Salle Oaklands and Oakland Crusaders had someone in front of basses, tenors, typms and snares. Cymbals, well, when they got a tick one of the techs would hound them for a day. Until 78 only two keyboards, and in our case, they worked alone and one of them actually wrote all the parts. Tour was another matter. First tour Tom and one tech, seconds tour by the time we got to the week before Nats all techs had joined the tour. On the road, a lot of the time Tom was doing everything until later in the season. We ad strong section leaders who served as techs.

[@icruz101]

Back then Fred refused to used sectional techs. I followed back then and finally made it in to the open Corps in 82. Fred did indeed set a high standard.

[@simonsays640]

AYYY BROKEN ARROW. CLASS OF 22💪

[@stephensmith6790]

Love the mylar

[@charlescoppedge5193]

I marched timpani in 1980 Rose Parade

[@balderdash14]

I wonder how many great marching band shows we'll never get to experience because they were before cameras. Such a shame

[@David-lj8pr]

Good Morning Eric!

[@flarfatron2190]

Gotta love marking time that high 😂

[@Ace_v120]

the high school i graduated from still uses marching xylophone for parades

[@Waggz74]

sometimes I press 0 over and over to watch your weird face say good morning! thanks EMC!

[@thezencaliff8891]

I would love to march timpani

[@paperkid6821]

They going to tick I can see it in their eyes

[@06racing]

A long video on the history of DCI would be cool.

[@sarniasam]

Rob Carson was the snare tech through winter/spring. He decided to jump into the line after the season got going.

[@robertcirincione6099]

Fred Sanford was big on match grip. All of those Slingerland TDR drums were cutting edge in 78. The big triple toms that was it. Hell a lot of drum corps and marching bands were still slinging basses even into the eighties.

[@williammontgomery8812]

Marching timpani players are badass!!

[@KyleTheCadet]

Yes they are!

[@toddmcknight9989]

My mom (hs class of '86) marches a xylo in highschool. That in combination with track threw her back out

[@richbrass12]

Look how huge those harnesses were

[@k2skater870]

cant believe that dci has multiple drums tech while i grew up in a showband with only one drum instructor.

[@marial8235]

It likely wasn’t middle of the summer. In those days corps were local and you practiced off season-pretty much all season. It did help the California corps as they came out further along in drill that the Eastern/Central reasons.

[@AS-jt9di]

I carried the same marching xylophones (marimba) in my high school band in the fall of 1980. They were heavy but manageable during a halftime show but during a parade they were a bitch. I was in one parade where the route was over 2 miles long which was bad. The mile and a half march back to the buses did me in.