Spinogy X30 5kW CNC Spindle + LinuxCNC EtherCAT Rigid Tapping!

[@colingale]

was thinking you got shrunk into the super millivolt range. glad you came back to us 3.3v users

[@MazeFrame]

You guys are on 3.3V? I am still up here on 12 and 5

[@reps]

+/-15 for life

[@Cjs-n2n]

😂thats a slick reply ​@@reps

[@mandrakejake]

I'm 12v when stationary and about 14.4 when running 😊

[@joshuahuman1]

@@MazeFrame your down to 5-12v? I'm still on 24v

[@JesseO-nh3us]

i cant quite explain what it is. but i use your videos to fall asleep. You have a nice soothing voice, and you talking about PPMs and machinery just does it for me.

[@ziginox]

Reps and bigclive, I swear

[@mezzer34]

Losing network connection (in this case, to your ECAT master) is usually configured as a safety error because loss of comms to the motion controller will leave the drive with no knowledge of where it should be, and generally we want everything to fail safe. It's not a human safety issue, but it is a machine mechanics safety issue, and as someone who has been reponsible for several high speed crashes involving robots, things stopping when you lose comms is generally better.

[@brauchmernet]

“Responsible for high speed crashes involving robots “ - when does your NDA expire? 😮

[@nickcaruso]

Haven't used CAN for years; nice to see it's still as overcomplicated and hard to figure out as I remember.

[@fischX]

Oh it has a pretty nice hobbyist side to it now thats quite easy to use and relatively cheap printnc is the codeword but not high precision stuff

[@marscruz]

I'm just here for the geekapalooza factor. The Deutschlander flavoured English narration is beyond superb as well. I have a few tools but they fit in my hand and don't require Linux or G-code to let me work. Excellent geekotainment!

[@MachiningandMicrowaves]

I've given up rigid tapping completely and threadmill everything from M1.6 upwards now. Even with flood coolant, I was getting terrible chip-welding and inaccurate holes. After rigid-tapping 2500 holes, I changed to threadmills and won't go back. I've doing a short production run with M36x1 internal and external threads, cut with an M6x1 threadmill. Just the ability to fine-tune the fit makes it a total no-brainer for me. My 3.7 kW spindle can do about 20 Nm up to 4000 rpm, but that drops rapidly above 12k rpm to around 2Nm at 18k.

[@lawmate]

Lovely spindle, very nice work. If you break a tap, you can't use another tap in the same hole. Even if the broken tap and replacement taps do have their threads aligned, the tool holder would need to index the taps. Most ER tap holders won't index the tap in the holder, only in the collet. If you need your threads aligned, thread milling is the way to go.

[@mandrakejake]

Most of the time thread milling is king. It allows for very fine adjustment of the fit, and it's far more process reliable in most cases. That being said, tapping is fast!

[@lawmate]

@mandrakejake I use taps more for ali and brass in the common sizes tbh. Thread mills can be dialled in and are easy to remove if they break but they're very slow and if you break one, it's £100 replacement, whereas a non ferrous tap is £5-£10. I've broken a lot of thread mills from silly height mistakes and it's a nasty feeling! If it's a small simple ali one off, the thread mill is worth more than the part, so not really worth it imo. If I'm doing a large multi op part in titanium, no way I'm using a tap on last op

[@KerseyKyle]

@@lawmate A M6 multi-pitch thread mill can be purchased for $15 each, I have been enjoying them a lot when dry milling steel. they can be very fast if you purchase a thread mill specific to each thread size.

[@joshuahuman1]

if you really had to you could probably thread the new tap into a previously taped hole and thighen the collet onto it while the holder is in the spindle and indexed. but at that point its just easier to just skip the holes you already did either in cam or by removing the XY coordinates from the taping cycle.

[@Narwaro]

Our smallest milling machine has 1100Nm of torque at the lowest RPM and we actually threadmill just about everything. Even with the best tooling and the most rigid machines and the best operators youre gonna break taps. Broken taps means scrapped parts and more down time. ThyssenKrupp and just about every normal CNC job shop I know mostly mills threads nowadays because of process reliability.

[@hinz1]

1100Nm? But only with geared spindle or with like 50HP or something. My only direct drive machine that can do rigid tapping has 120Nm @ 9kW

[@Narwaro]

@@hinz1Yes it has a back gear. But power only ranges from 7.5-30kW. Trust me, even with 3kW and a gearbox you can make more and bigger chips than your underpants will allow for.

[@wilfredswinkels]

Send the face mill to Stefan Gotteswinter to sharpen. He will like that challenge. Same as you accepting the challenge from Huygens Optics.

[@reps]

He will like that face mill too and I think he has a Spinogy spindle as well ... not sure if I can take that risk 😜

[@malteser0212]

​@@reps he might have a spinogy spindle, but he only has an HSK32. You're safe to send it to him, I think. He is much too utilitarian to just buy a spindle to use an end mill.

[@aoeuable]

Ahhh operating voltage: 400V. The proper stuff.

[@jubuttib]

Surely you mean 4e+8 microvolts? =)

[@johnmorris1162]

Perhaps the one person who new how to configure it left the company, so they sent it to you to figure it out for them. :-)

[@resist_or_die]

You have a lot of patience... I'm literally tearing 19 servos out of a machine right now and replacing them with VFDs lol. Maybe they're better in your application but I'm suffering from Post Traumatic Servo Disorder after this. The thing is the 4 tons of equipment for this is just to run boards through a box making line 🤡 Pizza boxes with perfect dimensionality, the world has it's priorities I guess...

[@max_eley]

Crazy how I was rewatching all of your CNC videos for like the 3rd time and you post this, no way, this is epic.

[@ViniciusMiguel1988]

I have a feeling I already watched this. Okay Marco more of that youtube premium money for you.

[@todayonthebench]

I think this video is a good explanation of feature creep in modern protocols. Like I do understand where it comes from, the deep desire to standardize yet also include every possible feature one could think of, but it sure makes life a chore. Even worse when documentation lags behind implementation, where one gets into problems and effectively have to escalate though the support chain, go from documentation, to forum, to e-mailing the involved companies, to being on a phone call with the programmer who wrote the code one the hardware one wants to interface with. To a degree, a lit of modbus variables has its advantages. Though, having prodded at OPC-UA a bit myself, it does seem a bit nice but also ripe with its own faults and limitations... (Though, I am not in the CNC field myself.)

[@muhdiversity7409]

Listening to the configuration and setup of this thing I rapidly lost the will to live. What the hell.

[@reps]

That part was tricky but the victory all the sweeter

[@muhdiversity7409]

@@reps Agreed. I was impressed you got it all working. That's a huge amount of stuff just to make something spin. Yes, I know I'm oversimplifying things 😆

[@Tezza120]

Yea, im not looking forward to this myself - going the ethercat route but doing it DIY is a bit of a challenge

[@burtharris6343]

Wow, ethercat! Your breadth of interest is far greater than I had originally guessed.

[@MrOverlader]

MOOOOOOOOOOOOM ANOTHER REPS CNC CONTENT HAS DROPPED

[@Condurafly]

37:27 Dear @BlaserSwisslubetube please provide that amazing guy the cooling lubes to cool down his crazy ideas! Don’t wanna see sparking chips blow up his roof due to a WD40 fume explosion 💥 (and at least later in the video he is aware of the need of such a cooling😉)

[@BrokenBuildings]

It's cool to see their use of 3d printing in such a high end product. The tpu cover and the metal wrench is cool

[@reps]

Do you think the wrench is 3d printed / sintered? Didn't even cross my mind yet, it does have an unusual surface for sure

[@kttkttkt]

Special wrench for one of our products is SLM. Usual suspects charge you per volume, so it gives you a pretty strong motivation to optimize the shit out of it. It is a funny side effect, that to make it cheaper, it forces you to design it as it was aerospace part.

[@Globalinvader2315]

Aaaaahhh, a nice evening watching Marco Reps. Can't get any better

[@thephlophers]

The tapping head knows where it is, because it knows where it isn't.

[@alex4alexn]

i could watch a whole vid of you stress testing taps and increasing RPM until they break, that first 100 rpm increase test actually had my blood pumping, great work. Someone needs to send you some anchor lube for tapping, it will change your life compared to WD40. Also, lube could be a factor for the stress tests too. Could be an awesome series. Cheers and thanks for the awesome content

[@FesixGermany]

As you might know I have a small machine with the smallest Mechatron spindle and just a couple of months ago I tweaked the parameters of my VFD a bit to be finally able to use drills and reamers and not needing to mill every hole which is loud and takes much more time. I took me a while to find the correct speeds and feeds for every diameter but once I did it is going reaaaally well. I invested in some short solid carbide drills so using a spot drill is not mandatory but for normal drills I say spot drilling is absolutely mandatory. I also had to find a compromise for retrackting the drill so chips get evacuated good enough. What is mandatory in any case however is lubrication. Using spot drills, normal drills, carbide. The results are so much nicer, tool life is greatly improved and you can hear that it is cutting quieter. Mostly for aluminum I use plain alcohol as lubrication (I know, well ventilated area and such), you can read in many online forums that alcohol has no lubricating properties and such but comparing working dry and using alcohol it makes a huge difference and is definitely an improvement. When working with plastics (acrylic, POM, etc) or steel I use compressed air to help the cutter stay cool-ish and to blow the chips away. Made a 3D printed adapter for a little nozzle at the spindle. Hope that helps to improve your CNC game.

[@rouuuk]

Gotta love the vcause reference "or am i" 9:19

[@Narwaro]

Spinogy has come a long way and they really do a lot themselves. Even the squirrel cage. When I was given the tour, the X30 was just a tease.

[@cylosgarage]

Marco reps cnc videos always make my day

[@drkastenbrot]

the delay of the safety disconnect is likely to allow emergency braking to a full stop

[@Ptolemusa]

11:24 BROTHER! MAY I HAVE SOME OATS!

[@whiteyready5862]

never clicked on a video faster

[@KYBERWERK]

Now this kind of video I'd like to watch on a big screen. With a subwoofer for all those control loop harmonics

[@theovannieuwenhuizen5756]

Just what a man needs after a day of hard work! 😂 Excellent video Marco, there no limit on your pursuit for precision.

[@alessi4249]

As soon as you got into the canopen acronyms I knew it was going to be a good one 😂

[@yannismarle7797]

i love that not even 2mn in the video you already used two power supply as feets for the control cabinet

[@leofortey7561]

Looks simple enough... Can't wait to pull the last few hairs out of my head trying to get this working 😵‍💫

[@joshuahuman1]

Great video I have some advice for when you rigid tapping. For through holes I would stick with straight flute spiral point taps. These evacuate chips out the bottom of the hole very well and have a stronger core meaning the tap can handle more abuse. They are also better suited to taping without pecking. spiral flute specificity the modified bottom variety are great for getting threads to the bottom of a blind hole but are more fragile and should be used with a peck tap cycle especially when tapping deep holes the long chips coming out the top sometimes gets re cut causing the tap to break. one last tip for dealing with broken taps you can mill the tap out using small carbide end mill. when I break a tap at my job ill take an 1/8in-3mm 4f end mill and run it around 10k rpm and interpolate the hole to about .005in-.127mm below the tap drill size of the thread. For the ramp amount I set it to around .001in-.0254mm and set the feed to do about 1 ramp pass a second. This works pretty well for taps m4 and up but when your done the endmill will be destroyed.

[@floodo1]

might look into MQL system since you don’t have flood or through spindle Helluva project. Was pleased to see you tackle m8 m8

[@supercompooper]

I adore your videos dude they are just magnificent.

[@game-tea]

Well, clear opportunity for the next addition to be a cooling system! Personally, im a big fan of all that white goo lubricant.

[@marcosmota1094]

Dude, you and the automatic bows guy just rock!

[@mandrakejake]

24:55 the bit would likely last much longer if it's not re-cutting chips. A vacuum cleaner would work well for this! I enjoy your videos

[@monsieurb24]

nice work with your communication spindle, you can try hsm advisor, carbide in 1018 can do 750-1000 sfm and 5% radial , you need to pick very small radial cut but more fast, you can check onsrud for feed and speed and depth of cut , your mill eill run more like router spindle speed, i never set linux on the machine, ( i have 7i77 analog) i love you work ;)

[@chompers5568]

Yay another video I'll watch and understand 10% telling myself I'll educate myself on this stuff later

[@cyborgzloth]

it's the funny little german electronic man!

[@phrozenwun]

stir weld drilling is crazy! Well done good sir!

[@SebbyG86]

was anyone else drooling through out the video? thats some nice equipment.

[@ewildgoose]

There are such things as floating tap holders. They allow just a tiny amount of slop in the tapping process to accommodate follow error. Perhaps this will allow you to improve thread quality and tap speed? I say this as a Brother Speedio owner where 6,000rpm is my go to tap speed. 😅

[@RoboCNCnl]

What an absolute beauty... ! I could use a sponsor like that :) Congrats buddy !

[@theteenageengineer]

An endmill in the collet isn’t the best thing to use to accurately measure runout. I recommend using a gage pin. A whole set of gauge pins is a little outside the price range of hobbyists but you can buy individual ones for like $10 US. ER25 isn’t bad, but the king is definitely ER32 as it is the collet size used by most professional machine shops. If you’re going to upgrade something else next, I highly recommend getting a new vise, that vise is okay but you would definitely have a better time with a 4 inch Kurt.

[@TheVespap200e]

Another excellent video Reps!

[@innominatum9906]

1:30 GESUNDHEIT my friend!

[@fredio54]

Sweet kit. I will live vicariously through you.

[@Nathan_Whaley-g8m]

The machine shop I worked at most recently would only buy the cheapest collects, holders, drills, carbide, etc. on the market, and kept asking why the holes in parts were coming out over sized or tapered if made by interpolation. Plus the machine I was running would leave visible marks from backlash when it changed axis directions... That place was something else.

[@shikutoai]

Try tape on your ferrites for the chipping. Painter's tape/masking tape should be easy to apply, remove, and deal with the edge chipping.

[@Chris-bg8mk]

Yay Marco published a Cnc video!

[@zardyzardy8946]

I don't know anything about this but I am still watching 😅

[@testi2025]

If you want to test power, use mangling taps. These do not cut the material but form it. You need to have larger pre hole also.

[@axelurbanski2828]

30 years ago i do some working on Metronix.. and hello to Alex

[@x_ph1l]

It looks like the design committee that worked on this communication and control standard was rather large. The bigger the committee the more convoluted and stupid the protocol is.

[@mixmastterful]

I am spindle shopping at the moment, saw your video and instantly clicked with a fist pump!

[@milloons2847]

What a treat and on a monday!

[@marwinthedja5450]

@45:40 42crmo4 has a HRC of up to 61 That's close to the upper limit of what can be machined.

[@TheMetalButcher]

I've seen Kern threadmill an M3 thread in solid carbide. So, I'd say not true.

[@dr_gotheem3899]

And here I am, manually adjusting the RPM of my CNC router via a dial and relying on the "sound" while hoping for the best...😂

[@creadorestijuana3411]

30K RPM??? DAAAMN!! It's Beautiful!

[@matthewmaxwell-burton4549]

Reps, vector control can be open or closed loop. The estimator is what makes the difference and a simple jog is enough for it to know the pos of the rotor. See you have the ace of pipe wrenches though ;)

[@romancharak3675]

Wowee! Transported to another universe !

[@alexscarbro796]

21:31 there is a demon in your spindle!

[@xDevscom_EE]

Time to make some large copper chips!

[@GreybushGamer]

YESSSSSS IT RETURNS!

[@OmarMekkawy]

Finally, we got our entertainment dose before sleeping 😂

[@olivercollard8767]

MORE CNC CONTENT!!!!! YAAAAAAAAA!!!!

[@Bu5H84]

Damn I hope you serious about building a new machine, the next one will be a beast.

[@reps]

I learnt so much from my mistakes with this one 🥲

[@oliverer3]

​@@repsWhile expensive it sure is the most effective way to learn!

[@curiouscrandall1]

I was thinking as you mentioned it. Every CNC machine I've seen (on KZbin) douses everything in milk - I mean, coolant/lubricant.

[@estebansanches4236]

Good video, as always ;)

[@superbrain3848]

Gödde got a useable Parameter calculator for theyre tools, its sometimes a bit Optimistic i would say but gives a good starting point a lot of times the 16mm endmill is more designed for High DOC and low stepover adaptive workloads, small chips overheat the tool

[@lvxleather]

Bad ass spindle 👍

[@douro20]

Actually with cutting hard metals with carbide tools it is best not to use flood coolant as the thermal shock will greatly reduce the life of the tool. But then the cutting forces here probably aren't nearly as high as I am used to working with on bigger machines.

[@DantalionNl]

the acronym boogaloo show hasn't really sold me on the whole ethercat thing if anything

[@reps]

Normally as user one should not have to interact with any of that, it was just my luck to be the first who had to work out how to interact with this rare servo drive

[@DantalionNl]

​@@reps Thanks that makes sense, I come from software and we get sold 'it should just work' a lot especially around drivers, but it hardly ever does so especially when FOSS / Linux comes into play so maybe I am just made skeptical. Just recently bought a house and will setup my first CNC a puny Stepcraft 600 hope to be using LinuxCNC. Thanks for your videos

[@chronokoks]

37:30 get with the times and use ethanol pr isopropyl for cutting/threading. If you read the papers it really reduces the torque needed to cut and improves finish.

[@khi787ghid]

At 42:21, there is a 9-10 video frames (0.3 s) delay between the moment the spindle starts moving and the moment the screw starts. Isn't this way-way too much? To see yourselves, use the . (period) and , (comma) shortcuts.

[@superbrain3848]

if you got some money to set on fire, a Shrinking setup would be intresting, allowing for pressfiting TC tools into matching toolchucks hydrodehn chucks are also really nice with vibration dampening properties but even pricier

[@adrianio1000]

Single channel safety circuit? The 90s called, I think they want their machine back.

[@aka_pcfx]

Treading out is always more difficult for a machine, because the chips never evacuate perfectly and so the spindle load is very unpredictable. You might want to try and drill the hole 0.1mm or 0.2mm larger than what is in spec. That technically means the thread is not up to spec, but depending on the loads that tread sees, it might never matter.

[@nunyabusiness3612]

As always. Vielen Dank 🙏🏾

[@goober-ll1wx]

You ate probably the only human on earth that knows how to set this configuration up....begs the question.....why? 😂

[@fredinit]

Marco - Love the new spindle. Get some Anchor lube for tapping (@Abom79 swears by it). Grabbed a small bottle for home for a few home projects. It made a huge difference in thread quality over WD-40. At least until you get flood coolant working.

[@alexwang007]

32:20 nice AvE ref lmao

[@BigGoucho]

Thing could make the planet spin backwards!

[@bazookamoose7224]

37:40 Dear… Use flood for taps sake! Also, a few millisecond dwell on G83 will assist in the jamming on return

[@zebo-the-fat]

You get all the best toys!

[@mezzer34]

"Same PID values at high speeds" Generally there are two main controllers in a closed loop drive like this - The Motion controllers position controller, and the speed controller. Both only have one set of PID values (usually only PI - Just ignore the D component for Motion control, it's not your friend), it's rare you will vary them at runtime unless you need to tune reponsiveness. I would not trying to vary them based on speed, especially when the Motor is running. "Encoder can't keep up" The encoder input for that Drive has a max freq. of 300kHz (which is much lower than typical for such drives) - Assuming a 2048ppr encoder on a rs485 differntial input, which would be typical, it should max out at ~2200rpm, which is very limiting. Are you sure it doesn't have a resolver on? Thats more typical for an application like this. The MC in the drive likely won't like it if it loses track of the motor position, but since its a Async motor it will still work fine. If you have a Sync motor, you cannot lose track of motor position or you will cook it. "Difficulty with EtherCAT" Beckhoff's biggest issue for years has always been their software isn't great at telling you what it doesn't like. It's been a big point of contention between me and their engineers (related: never tell a German engineer they have made a mistake). Part of your specific isuse here is, manafactures are designing this stuff for use with a homebrew linux box, they are designing it for use with a PLC. Most of the time, you load the eli in and off you go. It can get a bit more in depth as you go, but once you learn your way around it it's really a unbeatable platform. Something like EthernetIP would have you ripping your eyes out. Also, Twincat 2 is oldddddd now, not suprised it's not working.

[@excitedbox5705]

Can we convince you to DIY a granite epoxy linear drive base to go with that awesome spindle?

[@reps]

Generally yes! But before weighing myself down with such an immovable machine I might want to relocate real quick

[@PERILEX]

I honestly have no idea why you would want to go through the trouble of installing an ancient version of TwinCAT 2, when TwinCAT 3 is for "free". Usually there should never ever be any necessity to edit any of the PDOs if a supported Drive Profile like CiA402 is configured on the Servo-Drive and the acording .ESI-File for that profile is being used. Something is either badly wrong with your .ESI-File and/or your Drive configuration is wrong. Some servo drives that support EtherCAT can have an integrated position controller that only gets triggered via EtherCAT, rather than controlling the position by an external position controller like the TwinCAT-MC or the one in LinuxCNC. Something I would recommend for upgrades in the future is converting your arcadic hardwired-safety to a TwinSAFE based system as it would be highly flexible and also work with LinuxCNC. You would only have to configure it via TwinCAT 3 once and never care about it ever again, unless there is a hardware defect.

[@coolfrost6]

Not sure if it applies to ferite cores. But typically diamond tool don't last when used on iron based materials as the carbon will esentaily alloy with the iron/diffuse into especially at the temps when doing high-speed machining.

[@hypt0ny]

In an old video you were talking about your home-made brake cleaner. Please tell us more

[@travishayes6678]

You must represent a large organization to handle your CNC system integration in-house. Cheers!

[@jerremm]

You can't need an absolute encoder for closed loop control. But I suspect that it can be useful when you want things like "turn the spindle 90degrees" for some reason.

[@jimsvideos7201]

Well I didn’t feel poor this morning, but I do now. 😅

[@thaiexodus2916]

I would very much like to see you apply your super deluxe machine with a high speed balanced ultra rigid fly cutter. Would be perfect to undertake tests varying the speeds on test passes. See how close it can get to ground finishes.

[@Morphior]

Nananana nananana Nananana nananana Nananana nananana Repsman!