Mario Kart Wii's "intentional" shortcuts

[@Waffles17643]

You’re wrong

[@JaxonCampbell999]

Why

[@kacoboon]

He's wrong

[@averagespymain7784]

He's wrong

[@georgschwingerchen39]

He's wrong

[@gangdelbosc9459]

He’s indeed wrong

[@chainsawz5618]

as someone who doesn't know a lot about shortcuts in mario kart, not actually showing most of them in action and just showing a zoom out and expecting people to know the exact path you were imagining in your head was a weird choice

[@parkerbradley2354]

Big agree, he literally could've even animated a red line over the track if he didn't want to spend the time capturing footage, would've made it so much clearer.

[@MarioMastar]

Yeah, and on top of that, many of his "intentional vs unintentional" debates started to come across as "trying to prove the theory right" than assessing what the devs were thinking with evidence. Mario Raceway "rediculous"? Has he never seen the early tracks of ANY stage? They're all like 90% grass/sand with a thin wall keeping you relatively close to the track (like most Mario Circuits in SNES) while the later maps have mostly pits and punishing off road like Yoshi's Valley or no offroad at all like Rainbow Road, meaning if you try to use a star to go off track to "catch up" you risk falling off the track making come backs a LOT more difficult. that's what makes the Special cup HARD. XD

[@radaf4429]

This channel is geared toward mkwii diehards

[@HmmmmmLemmeThinkNo]

ngl I didn't even notice 😂 if you were lost though, then you're absolutely right, there should have been more clear illustrations on the shortcuts.

[@jameswilliams185]

I refuse to accept that we may have been doing what the developers intended

[@Pi-eipp]

Real

[@MarioMastar]

An easy way to double check is to look at later games and see if you can still pull off some of them. The only Ultra ever "patched out" from what I recall was the Maka Wuhu where you fall off the track and skip most of "section 2", but strangely, none of the others were patched out (though Grumble Volcano may have since it's back in MK8 and same for Coconut Mall, but that was clearly an exploit given you have to go out of bounds to pull that off). Still where it gets really iffy is if you remember, SMB's "Wall jump" was a bug that was turned into a secret technique and then made into a full on feature, using a similar "frame perfect" system in Mario 64 before giving Mario a wall cling ability and letting him naturally do it. So it's still very possible the devs "knew" people could do most of these if creative enough. It'd have been easy to patch most of these out. Plus I'm reminded of Crash Bandicoot's in famous "Developer times". where you barely beat a stage in 18 seconds for a platinum and then the Dev time is like 13 seconds and you're like "okay...what?" So heck, there may be some "ultra shortcuts" the developers know about that even us players never discovered. Like what IF Grumble Volcano WAS "SMB wall jump" intentional?

[@jameswilliams185]

@@MarioMastar *duke nukem guitar riff* "wow, thats a lot of words" *guitar riff again* "Too bad im not reading them" *rest of song plays*

[@Confetti-Camouflage]

My favorite part of this video is when they show someone actually doing the shortcuts

[@Dabestbro.]

im ngl I think not showing the shortcuts actually being driven is a bit of a misstep. not everyone is familiar enough with mkwii to know some of these esp. the moo moo low jump

[@Dmanthepowerful]

Oh I thought he was being sarcastic and the jump was taking the ramp over the little grass hill lol

[@qwertyboy5000]

Yeah I came here to say the same thing. I am not familiar with the moo moo low jump.

[@WhereIsMySock03]

@@Dmanthepowerful Same

[@wetsock6334]

I feel like some of these need video accompanying them

[@gokuuzumaki70]

Would've helped to show some gameplay of the shortcut being performed

[@leverposteifantomet]

I wish you would show footage demonstrating each shortcut, because I'm having trouble following what some of these shortcuts are from just having them described. I'm not familiar familiar enough with the terminology I suppose

[@MarioMastar]

Yeah, the "Ultra low jump" in Moo moo meadows being "unintentional" like it was common sense had me like "??? Uh...they wouldn't have put a ramp there if they didn't intend for you to use it. Just cause you go off the edge of it to trick boost faster and save time... doesn't mean the devs had no idea people would do that..." Also Mario Raceway isn't THAT crazy. It's kind of par for the course that stages with lots of sand and grass could be used to shave off seconds with a star as a catch up mechanic. That's why later tracks in Star and Special cup tend to make pits or falling off the track more of a punishment (e.g. DK Jungle Parkway throwing coconuts at you forcing you to stay on track punishing mushroom users and Yoshi Valley having pits everywhere.).

[@zenodreemurr2093]

I can confirm the Desert Hills hill shortcut is intentional type 1. You are indicated to use them during the gate mission in Desert Hills in Mario Kart DS (mission 4-4).

[@DerpinMegaJurk]

The developer time trial for the track in MKDS even uses a drift-hop to vault over a tiny portion of the "out of bounds" sand without getting caught by Lakitu - so not only would the sandtraps be counted as intentional type 1, the devs knew it was very possible to push the limits before the track was ever officially released.

[@zenodreemurr2093]

@@DerpinMegaJurk Oh, interesting. I lost my cartridge almost ten years ago, so I didn't remember this fact.

[@treacherous-doctor]

my favourite part was when he showed footage of someone performing a shortcut in an entirely different game to the one he was talking about, despite never thinking to show footage from mario kart wii

[@Sabagegah]

You can look at the Wii tracks from later games for evidence about whether the devs wanted the shortcuts to stay after probably knowing about them.

[@slenderMax28]

Was it unintentional or type 2 intentional that there's zero footage of someone actually performing any of the shortcuts in this video?

[@Electric0eye]

"If they didn't want you to do a gap shortcut, why would they have put a gap there in the first place?" sent me straight to the afterlife

[@Fireheart318]

Some videos & explanations of the shortcuts would’ve helped a lot. An uninitiated viewer wouldn’t know what a low jump is on Moo Moo Meadows, and I don’t know what TF physics are

[@radaf4429]

He literally links to a video about it

[@NickSharpx]

3:15 I personally disagree on the gap jump because at that point they would've put a bouncy mushroom in the middle of the gap, meant to be reached with a mushroom like the two mushrooms at the beginning of the track that put you onto the wooden bridge... Just my opinion, great video :) Also rr wheelie off the turn pre cannon is just an oversight imo with how the whole track is so curved and flowy...

[@99jacksonian]

desert hills is a completely different conversation if only one shroom is involved imo…

[@saplingdatree4111]

truuue

[@TheEmilyba]

Would have been nice if you had showed the shortcut path being taken for each shortcut. As someone who isn’t super familiar with Mario kart Wii it was a bit hard to picture some of the cuts you were talking about.

[@BeneficialBacteria]

great video and all but the Sherbet Land pole-clip ultra is CLEARLY type 1 intentional

[@dylsplazy]

You're wrong, I think that the shortcut on Rainbow Road Where you climb the railing and drift into the other side of the track skipping half the track is 100% intentional game design

[@cocoellawella9315]

That Mario kart remix of rapp snitch knishes is one of the HARDEST things I’ve heard in a long time.

[@domi12136]

yo i was searching for someone to find that haha

[@bailey7657]

I think DDR Ultra was intentional, but meant to be done with a golden, the way you can also re-enter the track before the bridge and then go to the left of the lake/spring

[@sneepsnoop9547]

There's no way any of the ultra shortcuts were intentional, they fundamentally only work because of an oversight in the checkpoint system. If the devs discovered a shortcut that breaks the checkpoint system during development, they would have fixed it and we might not have ultra shortcuts at all today. Or they at least would have put up some more invisible walls and death planes preventing it from being exploited, or changed the track's checkpoints to include the shortcut.

[@rymatang10]

@@sneepsnoop9547the DDR “ultra” isnt an ultra shortcut in the sense of skipping key checkpoints, but is going on the sand above the track on the right at the end of the laps and cutting the first turn and straightaway with shrooms/golden/star.

[@bobboberson8297]

@@sneepsnoop9547 ddr ultra isn't an ultra lol

[@MSCDonkeyKong]

misread as "dance dance revolution" ultra. am i stupid?

[@HyperMario64]

@@MSCDonkeyKong Dry Dry Ruins and no most people would think of the dancing game too

[@Kazuha10538]

The shortcut at 8:20 is actually way harder/ impossible in mk64 iirc The devs must've thought it would've been a cool shortcut and added it in when they ported the track to wii

[@mk8-mkwil117]

Wet it technically possible but extremely hard to pull off in the long run to cut off like hugging the wall just about

[@BrodyMK64]

MK64 runner here. Mario Raceway is wild with all the off road, especially at in person kart meets. Stars are overpowered on that track Plus we have the wallclip at the very beginning for our major shortcut

[@LaserBread]

What's interesting about the DK summit double cut and the Mushroom Gorge gap jump is they were intentionally preserved in MK8DX, which is normally incredibly adamant about keeping people in-bounds.

[@mkwpatsfan]

I would say that the DKS Double cut in intentional type 2 because although the devs became aware of its existence, the fact that it was not only left in but also made easier in 8 Deluxe, and the respawn is favorable if you fail.

[@StalinkTz]

8 deluxe isn't an argument, you have to remember that they intentionally made lakitu more extreme in OG mario kart 8 because they didn't like how many shortcuts the games before had. the reason why they came back to making shortcuts possible it's because they probably saw how much people actually liked them so you can probably call every single 8deluxe shortcut intentional. but that doesn't make them intentional in the og game

[@mkwpatsfan]

@@StalinkTz If you wanted to prove your point, then you only ko'd 1 reason out of 3.

[@StalinkTz]

@@mkwpatsfan what's the other 2?

[@mkwpatsfan]

@@StalinkTz Devs becoming aware of its existence and the favorable respawn. Also, Lakitu never tells you that you are going the wrong way.

[@StalinkTz]

@@mkwpatsfan lakitu doesn't tell you that you aren't going the wrong way cause you aren't, you're going forward. favorable spawn i don't know, i haven't noticed, but that could very well be a coincidence

[@thepersonwhoasked9475]

Not to mention, but tht MG gap cut is also present in mario kart 8 deluxe DLC, a game notorious for taking away some big shortcuts from MKWii (like the grumble volcano rock jump)

[@sonicwaveinfinitymiddwelle8555]

There was no mention about double tricking the end pipe on Mario Raceway and I'm disappointed

[@jammies701]

Nice vid mate, this was a good one, love the breakdown

[@trollface8621]

I think it's quite ironic to say that mushroom gorge's gap jump is type 1 intentional, yet GCN mario circuit is type 2? I know you didn't want to go back on your previous decision, but I think you disproved your own point by mentioning the positioning of the wall. I think it's quite clear that they altered the wall to allow for this to take place. Really Cool video idea! It would be cool to know the extent of how much the devs planned shortcuts / discovered late in the development process and decided to keep in.

[@bigfry5]

Yea I think it really was type 1, my bad there

[@Maxxieuguu]

The bc3 one is possible in super circuit. So it’s likely they wanted to carry it over to wii.

[@bigfry5]

I tried to find a video of it but I couldn’t find one, I guess I didn’t look hard enough

[@Maxxieuguu]

@@bigfry5 it’s very easy to do in super circuit actually. Just boot ip the game and try for yourself

[@Pieplup]

It's absolutely not intentional slow ramp abuse (the glitch that allows you to get the height) is absolutely a glitch caused by a wall canceling out the speed reduction. You cant' argue that ones' intetnional cause it's literally caused by a glitch

[@Maxxieuguu]

@@Pieplup fair point. Plus I did go and try the sc in super circuit and did have trouble tbh

[@mk8-mkwil117]

I think n64 bowser castle rail cut was definitely intentional considering that the devs looked at the original game and it had no collision on top of the wall so I guess that just wasted way just makes this a shortcut not really in a way.

[@davidebo178]

The Grumble Volcano rockhop, I remember seeing an unfinished mission mode in the code had a level where you have to pass through rings with one of them being ON the boulder

[@ClosedDoor35]

Not to mention, why wouldn't there be a key checkpoint anywhere in the skipped area if it weren't intentional?

[@polybiusconspiracy]

Do you have a video of that?

[@btf_flotsam478]

​@@ClosedDoor35 Maybe because they didn't think people would use the decoration block to skip a large chunk of the track. They use key checkpoints scarcely at times.

[@thedetect1ve]

I think its possible when making the tracks they left in shortcuts that look possible but didn't playtest to make sure it works and just see if players made the jumps work or not

[@Jesthers]

This video has a lot more required reading than I would have thought. I can make good assumptions about what the shortcut in question is for most of them (except Moo Moo Meadows, that ramp looks intentional and I have no idea what is wrong with it), but seeing them in action might be helpful

[@bentokage]

You can actually tell if some shortcuts were intended or not by looking at the item routes in the track files. Any shortcut that they intended to be done shroomless (and any area that splits itself off from the main track, of course) has an item route following it, so that item behavior works as expected and doesn't cause any noticeable bugs. You can verify the following shortcuts were intentional from this: - Mario Circuit banister strat to get on the ramp behind the chain chomp - DK Summit double shortcut shroomless - DS Delfino Square ramp to dock shroomless - GCN DK Mountain turnskip shroomless The only exception to this (clearly intended shroomless, but doesn't have an item route) is the N64 BC rail, which is probably because the item routes already work fine without them needing to add more. There's a lot of other much smaller cuts that may have been intended, but also may only have routes because the bill would bug out there if it didn't (stuff like the Koopa Cape shroomless turnskips in the water section). Conversely, the following don't have item routes, so I think they intended for them to be either shroom-only or not possible at all: - Wario's Gold Mine turnskips - Rainbow Road turnskip before cannon & pathswitch - BC3 cut

[@ate-ē-ate]

Could you actually show the shortcuts in action next time? Am I supposed to follow your Microsoft Presentation of a video get the message.

[@jammies701]

I want to point out something about track design people don't seem to say much that I remembered when you talk about Luigi circuit. Almost all MKW tracks are designed such that shortcuts take either 1 shroom or 3/golden (RTA circumstances). There are no shortcuts that can't be done with 3 shrooms that can be goldened if I remember correctly. There's only 1 2 shroom shortcut I can think of in the nitro tracks, DS Desert hills to the left of the pyramid. This sort of track design lends itself to tracks that can have unintentional shortcuts because the lengths of areas are well done. This is a constant source of pain on custom tracks, where the design isn't thought out in a way that accounts for shroom usage or all vehicles, so those tracks tend to have more intentional cuts rather than unintentional cuts

[@SoulBoundSagaDX]

Mushroom gorge one is def intentional, item boxes right before with higher boost to mushrooms on lower places causing insane high moments when playing with friends and family when you go from 6th to 1st on lap with without it happening every time

[@izzywooperstan]

Another thing that supports MG Gap Jump being intentional is that you can do it in Mario Kart 8 Deluxe too

[@iipiantissimo5098]

What about the dkm gap cut? Easy type 2 intentional.

[@bigfry5]

I didn’t think there was much of a discussion since it seemed pretty intentional

[@vincenzofranchelli2201]

​@@bigfry5seems like more to discuss than gcn mario circuit and desert hills which are just grass cuts

[@bigfry5]

@@vincenzofranchelli2201yea I didn’t put a whole lot of thought into it

[@ArcticCN]

1:20 i remember seeing concept art where this path is highlighted

[@EthanTheWerewolf]

Im like, half asleep rn and i keep rotating a wii controller in my mind. Get rotated

[@astrophysicsperson528]

There's a shortcut you missed in mushroom gorge. At the start of the track you can use a mushroom go off the left edge and hit the two bouncy mushroom platforms and reach the wooden bridge. You actually use one of those platforms in the ultra shortcut, but they're clearly intended to be part of a shortcut.

[@legojedimasterplokoon2173]

He skipped a lot of shortcuts that are obviously intentional

[@travo6805]

I feel like more are unintentional, I bet the devs were all piss at the game because it was new

[@luketj]

love went content like this pops up in my recommendations

[@CharlotteMimic]

What's the music at 3:50? It's tickling my brain. EDIT: Oh shit, it's the sample that backs Rapp Snitch Knishes!

[@CauseOfBSOD]

3:39 and unlike other shortcuts in tracks that appeared in mk8dx as remakes, the developers didnt put a fence in to block it in the mk8dx remake of the track

[@papyrusty368]

BC3 is intended because it's also possible in Super circuit. The ultra isn't intended, but the normal one is

[@vincenzofranchelli2201]

nintendo actually said the dks single was possible but i think they thought you needed a shroom for some reason

[@brendancurry9808]

they learned from Melee that they need to make a game pretty polished or the hyper perfectionalists will never touch another game for being not broken

[@ericwitney5086]

The editing had me rollin lmai

[@legokingcandy]

The big mushroom cut on 64 raceway is near impossible to do on the original 64 version, the plants are put in a way that makes it a lot harder to

[@danielward4868]

The GCN Mario Circuit shortcut is type one because the staff ghost went through the trees in double dash

[@gaberboo7434]

DKS double is clearly intended, there is an item route over the gap so that activating a bill in the double will finish the cut

[@Zachruff]

DKS single was officially mentioned by Nintendo UK in a blog post way back in the day, but they said it needed a mushroom lol. Will post link in reply since idk if youtube filters those.

[@Tock46]

Just based on the fact that there is an item route there for people to be saved by the bullet taking the shortcut it must be intentional.

[@campbellblock3061]

Really? That's wild. It does seem that yt filtered out your reply if you did try posting that though.

[@MuchWhittering]

This video really needs some footage of the shortcuts being done. It's really hard for the uninitiated to work out what you're talking about.

[@head_snapss7587]

The rock hop is intentional but only when the block is falling imo because of how it makes an ramp that is trickable to the other side. Then again, MK8DX makes it impossible so maybe not. Probably a Type 2 but that's cutting it close.

[@CarCorSnoAllen]

Wait the question block is trickable?

[@thedude4063]

Mushroom George's gap cut also reappears in 8 Deluxe

[@osf5635]

I think shroomba on KC is intentional but for a different reason in the video. On KC, shroomba almost 100% of the time drops the shroom in the exact same spot directly under you, whereas many other goombas like on mcwii drop randomly.

[@youknowihaduwuittoem]

The guy in the very beginning was clearly saying that it was HIS theory that these ultra-shortcuts are intentional, not that there was one in the wider community.

[@VistyMe]

What’s the song used at the start of the Toads factory part? I know I’ve heard it before

[@bigfry5]

Rapp snitch knishes but in the DKC2 soundfont

[@herothehedgefox]

kinda wish you showed the shortcuts being done

[@Shampoobottle21]

For mushroom gorge, you think devs put a mushroom there for a time but took it out when they realized it’s in front of the checkpoint ?

[@VGMenjoyer]

Well if they put a shroom there it would be too broken

[@ZACKMAN2007]

If the shortcut is possible in future remakes of a track, then its intentional, For example, the gap jump. In every game mushroom gorge has appeared in you can perform the gap jump,

[@zwabTheRealOne]

Trackname for the song used in the intro?

[@ThePowerPlayer]

For anyone wondering, the music at 9:42 is "NSMB - Overworld theme but in minor key and it sounds SABROSO" by yell0: kzbin.info/www/bejne/kJTGlJ9pn55pnqc

[@tefhypr2]

10:39 to infinity and beyond

[@sonicboy451]

I dont think the Mushroom Goege gap is Type 1. The time in which you have to use your mushroom, combined with having yoir joustick right to make the shortcur possible is not intutively obvious. It is also extemely difficult to preform with motion controls.

[@TipsyStager09]

8:42 That happens in MK8 Deluxe as well!

[@EAGLESOUL115]

Is them putting fence posts and mushrooms at the end of Mushroom Gorge in 8 any indicator that it may be unintentional?

[@ketakris]

u forgot the 3lap ultra on rainbow road, it has a height difference so that means that it must be intentional. Also the theme of space and traveling across the galaxy just shows that it must be intentional so yeah it is intentional

[@egidiocheerios]

man there is no way in hell that mushroom gorge is intentional

[@thetacticaltaser]

if GCN Mario Circuit is type 2, NO WAY MUSHROOM GORGE IS TYPE 1

[@LandonEmma]

1:14 EVANGELION MUSIC?!?!

[@bigfry5]

actually it’s from Pokémon 🤓

[@LandonEmma]

@@bigfry5 aww crap… welp… I’m taking the L with this one…

[@VitaEmerald324]

I think you forgot the DK Mountain gap cut?

[@user-un2pf4ht9l]

I know alot about mario kart wii but even for me without video sometime i dont know if he talk about the shortcut i think or not

[@Nautilusan]

But show the goddamn shorcuts in practice

[@DeathByDubstep101]

lmao mf doom with the dk sounds is peak

[@F1Maestro26]

what about the gap cut/turn skip on DK Mountain?

[@Jammert]

also with the gap jump i dont think in mkwii it was intentional but i think in mk8D they DID make it intentional cause how easy it is and why would they let you do it in a game so restrictive

[@ironcicadamkw5241]

should've thrown in the mushroom gorge wall ride

[@uriah-outcast5423]

I love allot of these maps some of em I've never played but yeah I agree with all of this 😅

[@evilgirlypop]

What's the song in the beginning?

[@cateredjr1039]

its three chain links - it cant be bargained

[@evilgirlypop]

@@cateredjr1039 thank you!

[@Sremolc]

the timestamp for delfino is doino square

[@thepinksmoothie]

you forgot the lake cut on desert hills...

[@theblazingmo6]

3:02 No wait.... if this is the case then why did Nintendo patch this in MK8?

[@jccs98]

no clips for any of the shortcuts

[@ivangornik4456]

what is the name of the song that starts at 1:14?

[@0_7up]

yoooo your sub 5k total views from 1 million total views 🎉🎉

[@JohnLattanzio98]

What about the OTHER mushroom gorge shortcut? The one at the beginning where you bounced off the mushrooms and land on the bridge

[@Pieplup]

it's very obviously intentional why else would there be mushrooms there.

[@JohnLattanzio98]

@@Pieplup in mk7 and mk8 they removed those mushrooms, but left the gap jump possible

[@kw4093-v3p]

You missed the Wario Gold Mine shortcut you teased in the beginning of the video 😭

[@Kiesling69]

my guy forgot dk mountain

[@Pieplup]

my arguement for rcokhop beingnot being unintentional is there's no way they woudln't have known about it. It seems to convient. Not that it's driveable

[@l.p4251]

1:08 I forgot this dude actually existed, my bad.

[@alexbarron6761]

WigFry

[@Irsu85]

Yea I agree although I feel you left out MCWii

[@matthewwunderlich4364]

what’s the name of the song in the background ?

[@brucelsprout]

Who let bro cook?

[@wChris_]

I dont thing the mushroom gorge gap jump is intentional. I do think they saw the possibility of it being possible, tried it but failed so they left it like it was. MK8DX however is fully intentional otherwise lakitu would pick you up the moment you are over the out of bounds area. Also its easier in that game.

[@Pieplup]

the msuhroom gorge gap jump isn't so hard that they'd do that imo

[@itzastro_0352]

I’d like to think the normal BC3 cut is intentional but the ultra isn’t. You can do the normal one in super circuit so it wouldn’t be far fetched to think the devs at least knew it was possible

[@Pieplup]

The issue with this is that what makes thoee shortcuts possible is a glitch called slow ramp abuse. that uses a wall to cancel the speed reduction fo the slow ramp.

[@campbellblock3061]

@@Pieplup The wall isn't what cancels the slow ramp effect; contacting the road on top of the wall does.

[@Pieplup]

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