Data Driven Fret Leveling Process

[@Stratisfied22]

A lot of times you can tap down the fret with a fret hammer as well. This is usually the first thing I attempt before doing a complete leveling.

[@matthewstephens6848]

It's all I do. Unless forced to do otherwise.

[@matthewstephens6848]

So, you level frets with a fret kisser? Oops. **Spoiler alert** He levels frets with abrasive. Same as anyone else. He's doing nothing special in the slightest. And if the negative comments are irksome - don't drag people here with the 'I don't level frets tagline' and then babble on about Star Trek and proceed to level frets with sanding. People feel cheated and won't ever come back. There's meant to be a level of trust between viewer and creator. I came here excited to see a new guy working new methods and had my time wasted, left with a bad taste and won't be back. I was a definite potential new subscriber and repeat viewer. That being said, your final board was very nice and I like the inlay work. I just won't return is all and that will be typical of a lot of viewers I imagine.

[@johnstitt2615]

Way too serious and too much misery....lighten up.

[@matthewstephens6848]

Haha! Nice! Can't beat them hog knuckles. But, I slightly edited, deleted and reposted a comment made on the same viewing due to KZbin not letting me edit and post it, for some reason. Also, there was some absolute weapon babbling like a lunatic in the replies, so it was a win/win. And you leave little Billy out of this! Also, I clearly meant I won't be back as a channel viewer and subscriber. It's this type of logic that my son exhibited that made me abandon young Billy in the first place. :) @@BryanClark-gk6ie

[@darringalloway]

​@@matthewstephens6848LOL!

[@darringalloway]

This video sucks. I'm tapping out 7 minutes in.

[@goodear1540]

Cry babies to the right please --->

[@davidmultimedia2024]

This is a brilliant technique. I'd also add that not only you're saving time and effort while preserving the original crowing of the fret wire, but you're also preserving as much height/meat as possible, which guarantee optimal playability by minimizing finger friction on the fingerboard. This is SO important, especially when playing leads. We want ''low action'', NOT low profile frets! Thanks for sharing your technique Mark! ♥

[@joeking433]

But all the frets are not on the same plane if you spot level. They could be all over the map. That's why it's not a good idea to spot level

[@Mauitaoist]

I always start for leveling in the middle of the neck and then work towards either end that way I'm sure that the second fret isn't off when you do it starting at the second fret you're never really sure it's like laying a tile floor you want to make sure that everything's level at the highest point in the room

[@robertyoung7027]

I've been playing since 1988.. it's only been the last few years that I've actively been doing my own set-ups.. thanks for imparting your knowledge and skill! Loved the relaxing music too!

[@burresseffects]

This was a breath of fresh air with your soft spoken delivery and the lack of guitar-based music! Kudos for not following the herd! Subscribed!

[@T0tenkampf]

wasn't that a guitar synth?

[@johnkirkpatrick1778]

If your fret rocker actually rocks when placed over three frets, is the middle fret too high, or is one of the outer frets too low? Both situations will produce the same 'rocking' condition. If you then reduce the height of the middle fret, and the problem was actually with one of the outer frets being too low, then you could be introducing a slight 'wave' of height variation as you move along the fretboard: not good when you are fretting the strings in different positions! Yes, I know that string tension will tend to pull a slight amount of relief into the neck, but for accurate, consistent fret heights, they must all have their tops originally in a straight line. After making sure that the fretboard is as straight as possible using the truss rod and a slotted straight edge, and marking ALL of the fret tops in the accepted way, a very light pass with a levelling beam which has 400 grit sandpaper will quickly show the condition of all of the frets: if only a few frets (or parts of frets) have their tops cleaned by the sandpaper, then these are obviously the high ones, which can quickly be reduced to the correct height. If only a few frets are left untouched, then these are the lowest ones: all of the other frets then need to be reduced in height. Either way, when you are finished with the levelling beam, you can then be sure that all of the fret tops are in line, without the risk of introducing the 'wave' height problem which seems to be a real risk when using your method.

[@jimistheman9732]

I'm with you on this. If you think the frets are level and don't want to over-sand anything, start with1000 with all the frets marker'ed. If the frets are right, you'll unmark them all at the same time, equally. Confirmation that you're good and at worst, you just polished your frets a little. If it isn't level, well, then you know what to do.

[@LeviBulger]

Agreed, good points. Considering how many frets needed leveling, he should have just used a beam to begin with. And then did spot leveling if needed afterward.

[@ccook31]

Agreed. Ironically, thinking you can level a fretboard in groups of 3 up and down the board - if done systematically and repeatedly (because you are changing adjacent readings each time you lower a fret) can take the same amount of time as judiciously using a long beam in the first place. Of course that will never happen because in the end you can simply raise the string height to avoid all the pockets of varying fret height.

[@rfphill]

Just curious if one fret is higher than the others and you mark it, then precede down the neck using the fret rocker, won't the high fret cause an inaccurate read of the next fret?

[@ClamsAnonymous]

This video is so great. Best overview of fret leveling I've found, with careful explanation and mentioning ALL THE GRITS IN ORDER. Thanks!

[@MarkGutierrez]

Thanks for the awesome comment. And thanks for watching.

[@therileyobrien]

Buffing wheel on the dremel is much easier and more consistent than the cone shape. Flitz is the only compound I use. It’s my last step after fine sandpapers. The wheel conforms to the fret shape and polishes the whole thing. One pass each direction and you’ve got a mirror finish.

[@johncleghorn4656]

The background music and low voiceover made me feel like I was working on guitars and on a mission to some moon orbiting Jupiter. I will buy the Fret Kisser because of this video. Thanks bud. Nice teaching and coaching.

[@mikey-dubs]

Before leveling just try to hammer that fret in a little bit. Way easier to try than to start leveling brand new frets.

[@bobherget7676]

An additional factor that comes to mind regarding this process is that once a high fret has been lowered, it will then affect how adjacent frets may then rocker test with its neighbors. Adjacent frets will likely test differently after an adjustment than before. I wonder if it might be best to start at the bridge end of the neck and work towards the nut. When a high fret is encountered, adjust it down to its proper height before moving onward, testing and adjusting as you go, one fret at a time until you get to the nut. I've heard stories of people spot-leveling frets starting at the nut end of the neck and ending up with a nightmare of "chasing" high frets all the way down the fretboard, with each subsequent fret adjustment causing the next fret to then test high. By starting at the bridge end of the neck, I would think that such a problem would be eliminated. One may say that it shouldn't make any difference, but think of it this way as a player. Which high frets give us trouble when playing? The answer is the high frets that are towards the bridge from the location where we are attempting to fret. Take care of those, then see what else may be problematic working back towards the nut. The fact that the "fret kisser" can even be used with the guitar under string tension, not only so the results of an adjustment can be immediately tested, but also that the guitar is in its true "living conditions" while you work and test, is a big plus. It may be easier for an experienced guitar tech to simply do a traditional leveling of the entire board, but for a guy like me who likes to work on my own guitars, but shies away from extensive fret work, I'm a fan of this spot-leveling method. I've yet to actually attempt to do it, but I'm going to buy one of these Stewmac fret kissers and give it a try.

[@itzed]

I can see this being a benefit for stainless steel frets because the sanding marks are so hard to polish out.

[@MatthewSwasta]

So what would you do if you needed to grind down neighboring frets? Wouldn't that change the whole, overall reading all the way down after the neighboring frets?

[@ianashdown]

Totally agree with your method! I did my first fretboard by sanding the whole fretboard and thought there had to be a better way. My next one I came up with the same process as you. It’s easier, quicker, and 90% of the frets remain untouched and full height.

[@amsatabijl4362]

Hey.like your video . I am Amsata . I am the inventer of ftrekisser .i use it also like this. I use stainless frets and dont think also that You need to level all the frets,but i wanted i tool that wil level just the high spot, so made this tool and work with stewmac to make it.it started in 2013 and 2018 it was ready. Nice frets work

[@antonstefanov2146]

The more I watch fret work vids the more I'm convinced that I'll certainly f up with such a task

[@stevenroach2296]

You won't. Leveling frets is not hard nor is crowning them with the right tools. Don't let all this technical mumbo-jumbo doubt yourself.

[@T0tenkampf]

interesting technique, i will give it a try since one of the selling points of Jescar SS wire is to potentially have a very long lived initial setup and possibly never needing a refret. It doesn't make sense to erode your wire material thickness from day 1. Do you check level with a beam as the last step? From an engineering standpoint, it would seem if you use only a rocker over a few frets that you could have a compounding error once you get 12 os so frets away?

[@ZapAtom21]

I DON'T LEVEL FRETS(proceeds to level frets). Glad I read comments before I wasted 25 minutes of my life.

[@fab672000]

I like the approach and the rationale to it, now could it be better to do this under string tension, that changes significantly the geometry of the neck, especially around the fall away zone (e.g. typical issues around the 12 fret?) Then using something like a stewmac Fretbar understring Leveler partially taped in the center with abrasive and ordinary tape on the side ? kind of home made fret rocker

[@this_is_my_design]

That fret rocker rocking in that position could also indicate the 2nd fret being lower. If the 2nd fret was too low, the fret rocker wouldn't detect that in the first checking position. If the 3rd and 4th frets were correct, the fret rocker would still rock the same way as in the video.

[@normbarrows]

Basically spot leveling. I did this on my current build. Fret rocker and red Sharpie for the high spots. You have to take special care that leveling a fret doesn't make an adjacent fret high by comparison.

[@matthoy2844]

I laughed out loud at the time travel stuff box. Good luck on your journey.

[@MarkGutierrez]

Thanks Matt. The box was my nod to Rick and Morty.

[@synthmage00]

I'd normally be mad at this level of clickbait, but the inlays in that fretboard are so cool I couldn't click away.

[@stevelaferney3579]

Hi Mark, you caught my attention cause I don’t think we should have to shred frets either. I noticed your installed frets go every other one and others who have done this have similar results at least on the videos I saw. I think it has to do with the bending to arc and/or the cutting and handling of the leftover wire. Some how it gets messed up resulting in a less than even inserted fret every time. Unless it’s a strange extrusion artifact from the factory but somehow that doesn’t make sense.? I’ve thought of skipping the next cut fret and using the third fret so cut first fret, skip material then cut second fret with that “ leftover “ material and so on… I haven’t got anything to fret so hopefully someone else will try this…. Maybe? Thanks for the video. Cool opening.

[@nanonanooo5]

excellent video all wood made for guitars has a mind of its own to stabilize fret arc height gives the player there tone/sound total enjoyed your passion and expertise thankyou for your time

[@Delmarevans]

So you measured off a fret that needs leveling ? Why do you glue them in? I’m not aware of any manufacturer doing it. Do you clean matching oil off the fret tang before you Install to keep them from creeping out ? Do you level the board on a refret first ?

[@100roberthenry]

The problem with fret rockers is they can give a false reading at the first fret....too high, too low, ..which then moves the issue across the entire neck....

[@unabonger777]

what's the solution?

[@100roberthenry]

@@unabonger777 level them all...

[@Bluesruse]

You should't level the first fret

[@maxwellblakely7952]

That was what I was thinking the whole time. He said that “you start to see patterns emerge” that’s because you’re transferring the first high (or low) fret, down the neck. Maybe I’m missing something here…

[@rfphill]

@@maxwellblakely7952 okay, thank you. I'm just learning all this but I can't help thinking he is using the previously identified "bad" fret as part of the read of the next fret over. I know I'm not expressing it very well, but I keep thinking that unless he fixes the "bad" fret first, he is just biasing the read on the next fret.

[@maxnits9556]

Theoretically, all PLEK machine does is scanning the fretboard with a z-level indicator and then chipping away the excess metal. It's tolerance is 25 microns. Cheap CNC machine has tolerance of 50 microns, so basically if one can rewrite its z-axis algorithm to scan over the fret board it will do the exact same thing, you just need the one that can be programmed.

[@jacobsmith1877]

I saw a video yesterday where a guy just taps the high frets with a fret hammer and then checks with the fret rocker. He ends up not even needing to recrown almost any frets

[@danielratcliffe9035]

What about an attachment on a hydraulic-press that can press in all the frets evenly at the same time, for a fret leveling result?

[@godzpowr]

I appreciate your detailed and exacting approach to guitar building. I’m a lot like that, however, I doubt if anyone could afford one of your guitars simple because of the time you’ve invested. I have tremendous respect for you, especially the Star Trek example. Big fan! I think you should pursue the “one mold press idea for pressing fret wire in a level way. This can and should be done.

[@SixStringOverdose]

THANK YOU! I made a video about 3 years ago, called "How NOT to be a fret leveling moron (and actually do it the right way)", in which I talk EXACTLY about this thing which pisses me off whenever I see all these big KZbinrs showing their extremely poor understanding of mechanics and physics, despite being super famous. Spot levelling is THE only way to level a fretboard! The only thing I do differently than you is 1) I check the fret along its entire length, not just in 3-4 spots, as you risk missing out small local bumps despite thinking they can't be THAT localized, but trust me, they can, 2) I don't have a Fret Kisser, but I'm using a regular diamond file, works perfectly and 3) no fall-off past the 12th fret since it's not needed, as I spoke about in my video. Again, I applaud you for the video!!! ♥

[@SixStringOverdose]

@ShawnHawkins33 I know that was meant to be both funny and on point, but it was really one of the worst analogies 😁 there are so many differences, both conceptual and practical, I'd have to write for hours on end... but really, it's not the same at all 🎸

[@BillyTheKidsGhost]

I'm sure the die/draw plate was not designed to push through a perfectly shaped fret. Also rolling the fret radius will change the shape. Therefore it's always a good idea to take a bit of the top (uniform). So you have a flat spot on the top of all the frets. That is why you keep a thin black line on the top of the fret when shaping it.

[@Mike-cx7xc]

If frets 3 and 5 are high, how can fret 4 be marked as OK?

[@chriskrueger1865]

Because 4 is the proper height, so 3 and 5 need to be leveled down to the height of 4

[@petrosak6576]

@@chriskrueger1865 You dont know if 4 is the proper height you just know that 4 is lower than 3 and 5.

[@chriskrueger1865]

@@petrosak6576 4 may not be the exact height you want but you have no choice as all of the frets have to be leveled down to the height of the lowest fret on the entire board to get them all perfectly level. Remember, you can only level down existing frets you cannot raise them 😉. Or, you could replace a low fret with one higher than the rest and level it down to the height of the rest, but that's usually only done when there are only a few or less low frets on the entire board

[@corex72]

When you set the frets, use a clamping jig to make them all level before the glue sets.

[@timstudio1]

Agreed! Does not make sense to grind down new frets. Makes me cringe just thinking about it. Thanks so much for this info!

[@tabletop9258]

I actually like your tip about adding the marker information to the tape, I generally use the butt end depth gauge of a micrometer towards the end of the crowning process along with the fret rocker to keep everything super consistent. As I can see how your method here is basically spot leveling, and would be just OK on new frets. An already played guitar that would possibly have string wear divets in the fret's up towards the cowboy chords generally, you'd want to take all the frets down to a certain level and need to recrown everything to get rid of those and keep everything level.... I won't even go into the price of the fret kisser, considering the same can be done with 2 tools you probably already own if doing any amount of fret leveling or fret maintenance.....

[@dovleac]

I see you got lucky with red frets in the middle of black ones. What happens if you have 2 or more red frets next to each other? How do you use the fret kisser when there are 2 uneven frets on either side? How do you choose which one is good to level?

[@ryancampbell7024]

Glad you mentioned the Plek. I really enjoy seeing hand crafting. Therefore I have a great appreciation for people who have the knowledge and hand skills to carry out this work with minimal of high technology machining. Speaking as a metal and composite machinist, with 23 years of practical experience, preserving these older skills is very important. If you have a machine that does it all for you then you become reliant on that and the ability to problem solve outside of the machines capability is lost.

[@mboyer68]

What the hell is this? He's the Bob Ross of luthiers. Happy little frets!

[@nanaandbump.]

Very cool ideas and beautiful work!

[@suspectdown5133]

Did not watch the whole video so not sure it was mentioned.....What happens once the neck is put on and string tension is introduced ? Doing a set up under the chosen string tension corrects any problems that may have been introduced when attaching the neck. So doing all this with the neck off makes no sense to me....may get you close (or not) But a final level is still needed on the bench under tension or simulated tension to the specific guitar IMO....

[@joeking433]

The problem with spot leveling is that it only makes the frets level to the adjacent frets so it can still be like a roller coaster. With full leveling with a 16" beam it levels all the frets to the same level..

[@Stratisfied22]

You can easily use a crowning file and check with a rocker every few passes and get a fantastic result. No reason to level all the frets if only a few are high.

[@oyvindreynen3800]

​@@Stratisfied22if you use a "long" leveling tool(as one should) you only lever those that need it, the lower frets won't get sanded...it's physics...doing it , or marking it at 3 frets at best at the time , gets faulty results..plus one shouldn't do it if the neck isn't on the guitar, hasn't been under tension for a while yet...wood still needs to set...but hey, these days the dumb teach the dumber and they all think they are professional cause they made a KZbin video

[@wizrom3046]

I use 6 inch precision flat ground stone, sold through metalwork outlets (normally used to dress milling machines etc). Similar technique, felt pen on all the frets, careful use of the stone to take down high frets.

[@Turboy65]

You approach fretwork like a mechanical engineer, very methodical and meticulous and more than a little bit anally retentive about it, but the results validate your process. I've been building guitars and doing fretjobs since 1985 and I get results as good as yours or anybody's, but I'm a bit more "production oriented" about my process, meaning, I crank it out in a couple of hours. I've learned shortcuts that work for me. I'm certainly not afraid of running a levelling block over the whole fretjob, this is actually a necessary part of the process if you want ultimately low action. I can routinely deliver fretwork that's better than the average results from a Plek job. Plek is not magic, it just automates the general process. It's no better than the skills of the guy setting up the machine. It is NOT the magic bullet some people make it out to be.

[@bradshannon862]

In a used guitar scenario I do everything I can to only file the top material I need to after doing my best to tap down high spots. Once I have quadruple-checked after filing my way up the fret board and I am satisfied I will do my crowning, fret end dressing, sanding and polishing the frets. So far I have had good luck and not experienced low spots but I did buy radius sanding blocks rather than my between string flat level sander just in case. I am very new at this and still trying to acquire decent tools ( little by little) so if you have any suggestions feel free to let me know! Thank you for this awesome video!

[@luthieriaverum5677]

wow how many bulbs to be able to make a refret

[@Suffocation03]

I’m not quite sure how this works once you file down the Frets surrounding the black Fret wouldn’t now the black fret be proud?

[@MarkGutierrez]

This method is not that different from fret leveling. I think you have to consider that I'm making these fretboards, radiusing and slotting on a CNC. The tolerances are pretty tight and my "high" spots are actually not that high. I could probably string it up without leveling and it would play fine. My spot leveling is just taking off microns and I test the adjacent frets as well. Every fret is hit with sandpaper after the files. That probably levels out things. Then I test again before polishing. If there are "high" spots on any color, take them out with the cutting polish and Dremel. Is it easier to just level the whole board? YES!. I just feel there has to be a less invasive way to do it. Thanks for the comment.

[@cugir321]

@@MarkGutierrez This will solve the newby problem. Taking off too much metal to get all the frets level with a long beam. This solves the biggest problem a new leveler will have. It will work with the fret kisser very well.....problem is you might as well just buy another neck for what you pay for the fret kisser and they won't last forever because it's a diamond file in essence. I'll give you a hint of my invention. Use 3 - 1 inch pieces of sandpaper on a 1 inch square block of leveled hardwood (about 5 inches long). Use double sided tape to stick them to the wood. the middle piece with the grit down.....the outside pieces with the grit up against the double sided tape...if you can figure this out you just saved 132.00 dollars. If you want to raise the middle piece of paper just double up on the double sided tape. That will make the grit piece stick out about .004 higher then the smooth pieces. I would buy the stew mac fret kisser if it 50.00 or less. More then that it's robbery. I used to spot level then kiss the frets with a long level to finish it. Now I just spot level.

[@MarkGutierrez]

@@cugir321 You are correct. The diamond grit already wore off on the Fret Kisser. I'm a little disappointed.

[@AnodyneHipsterInfluencer]

@@MarkGutierrez There's a reason many call Stewmac "The Evil Empire."

[@davekiddie4467]

@@MarkGutierrez and there goes the fret kisser out the window as a leveling tool because the amall rocker will reveal what the fret kisser missed because of the missing diamon grit

[@ranman58635]

Good info. I always look for different more wise ways to do my thing. I was just doing black where I saw it was high.

[@dazxmedia]

make frets out of something harder than nickel silver?

[@alveramps]

I do that in the same way!!! I even mark the tape as you do LOL. I didn´t know about the fret kisser though, that will make my life way easier. Thanks for the video!!!

[@orsmagyari245]

I polished my frets with normal Xerox paper. Didn't want to use my metal polish paste, it's a bit messy.

[@ChrisSmith-bz1gl]

A metal radiused "block" the length of the fretboard. Place frets in slots and clamp block down on them. CA into the ends. No leveling needed afterwards.

[@T0tenkampf]

if there are inconsistence's in the wire material and crown surface then no this will not work

[@380stroker]

​@@T0tenkampf Just use a mallet thereafter on the uneven frets and it's like magic.

[@threeque]

@@T0tenkampf Actually the opposite would be true. If the metal radiused block is stiff and clamped evenly, not allowed to bend, the frets will only be able to follow the block. It actually would allow the frets to have some variance and the fret board to not be flat.

[@uppalaganinabubble7529]

Necessity is the mother of invention. Im sure someone will find a remedy someday. Kudos to this guy for trying. BTW you should start your own ASMR channel 😊

[@maxwellblakely7952]

Next he’ll be crunching down potato chips with the mic right next to his mouth.

[@matthewstephens6848]

I essentially do this same thing, but I don't tape the board (make the notes with a pad and pencil) and then do the bulk of the levelling with a fret hammer. You still generally need a hit with a levelling with a beam of various sizes though. That's the step I came here to try and eradicate. I've got to get the Fret Kisser too - it's super expensive here in the UK, but the amount of time it can save you is 100% worth it.

[@dwayne5698]

Great info! Thank you! Your guitar frets put be like heaven to play.

[@dreamdancer8212]

A little less whispering and trying to create that haunting atmosphere would make that video a lot easier to watch. It´s hard to watch through the wannabe magician's behavior and voice.

[@bobyk87]

Did 3 different electrics, two regular stainless, one jumbo stainless, did only marking on the masking tape with a similar fret rocker. Lots of iterations, great results. The most demanding is working the fret ends.

[@XHuntinatorX]

Nothing wrong with spot leveling as long as you make sure your neck is straight first. Would this be correct?

[@luthieruin]

I would think the neck being dead straight is actually less important in this process.

[@svgs650r]

...a little constructive criticism as I'm watching your process... third fret needs height adj., yet you referenced all the consecutive fret heights to the third, which you'll change.

[@toddmayer6859]

I wondered about that as well ..... ( like as in Austin Powers when his eyes go cross-eyed .... )

[@jb791505]

Absolutely fantastic.. As a garage guitar builder (cigar box guitars) I haven't decided if the price of the fret kisser is within reach for what I do, but this really starts a chain of ideas! Thanks!!!

[@MarkGutierrez]

Hi Jon, I guild cigar box guitars too! Thanks for watching.

[@chrispfeifer7628]

Building guitars got me here, but, being a science fiction fan, Star Trek won my subscription. Great informative video

[@vespafetish]

You got me. And then you relaxed me. I forgot about how I'd stumbled blindly into this warm light, and just chilled right out. Nothing at all to do with leveling my frets. So thankyou!

[@joeking433]

What kind of tip do you have on your Dremel?

[@RsSquier51]

Never saw him make sure the fingerboard was level.

[@ianariyoshi2712]

But he said he did

[@bobbys4327]

But, are frets 1 and 2 level with 4 and similar frets up the board?

[@gigabrad4570]

I like this dude. But he didnt even check if it was the 2nd that was low.

[@380stroker]

You will need a gps-like tool (to measure elevation) to see the height of every fret from a birds's eyeview and bring them all down to the lowest fret on the board.

[@johnm5943]

Using a maker as guide coat and a 16 inch beam is more true for me a full fret level is more consistent

[@johnhelems721]

Shouldn’t you make sure the necks straight.

[@markdearborn1828]

When you remove material height from #3...everything you do affects the following frets. If there was no rocking of 345...there will be.

[@brunocejas]

¿?

[@blueeyedsoulman]

Is that $150 fret kisser still working well? I'm wondering how long it will work.

[@davekiddie4467]

Works well, but SS shortens it's life

[@blueeyedsoulman]

@@davekiddie4467 Ok.

[@marcohermans3207]

That whole fretrocker method gives me the creeps. You're measuring three frets... Lets say the middle is off. You mark it with that red pencil... Then you're measuring the next fret off that high fret... Lets say that fret measures good so you paint it black. But in reality it can not be good because you're measuring from a too high fret. It can never be a referenced fret... You get the point? The best is still the beam. Period. Oke spotleveling has its purpose for 1 or 2 frets. This is my opinion. The only method with this fretrocker that works let's say you start at the headstock assuming your first fret is correct and you encounter a high fret, you immidiatly have to adress that fret to the correct height and then measure the next fret.

[@curtrod]

🤯

[@goog646]

That's what I was thinking. In his demo, frets 3 and 5 are high and 4 is OK. But once he files down 3 and 5 then 4 could now be high. It could work, but you would have to keep iterating back and forth.

[@marcohermans3207]

@@goog646 ,The old fashion method with the beam works the best. A precision ground flat fret rocker detectes the slightest deviations between three frets but you want absolute no deviations across all the frets. The fretrocker is nothing else then a very short scale device with 4 straight edges....When you do this method you're constantly moving the problem to the next fret. I do fretjobs all the time , did these experiments also with mixed results , but from experience I stay with the good old beam that gives me good results everytime. Tip : If you're buying measuring tools like straight edges,fretrocker, leveling beams,notched straight edges, make sure dead they are as flat as possible or make them dead flat against an object that is precision ground . The results of fretleveling are depending on the tolerance of the measuring devices.

[@oyvindreynen3800]

Some people don't know what they are doing, just because they make a KZbin video , doesn't make then knowledgeable...her is a good example

[@Thematchma69]

Could you send a link to the background music?? .. I've heard it somewhere before and couldn't find it online

[@AntonioCavicchioni]

How the fret bending machine is calibrated? Trial and error? Also using a bigger template with the radius maybe gives more precision than the small radius? Just questions...

[@blueeyedsoulman]

OK. I HAVE found a much better way to do this. When the frets have been installed I simply tap down the high fret areas with a fret mallet. That takes a lot of this work away AND the frets are well seated so contraction does not make them lift out as easily.

[@Bob-of-Zoid]

If you try that with stainless steel frets they will eventually go back to their "Memory" state, and it's why bending them accurately before press fitting them in. Never use a hammer/mallet to put in SS frets, ore you may throw them out of whack and they will want to stay that way. Stainless must be over bent to where when relaxed the radius is right. Nickel silver, especially the older soft varieties are forgiving, but even the somewhat tougher modern versions are less so.

[@blueeyedsoulman]

@@Bob-of-Zoid Thanks! Did not ever work with SS. Good to know.

[@randallyoung9411]

Thanks for posting, smart solution!

[@ColocasiaCorm]

how do you know how high a high fret is in relation to other high frets. that's why we level the whole board. silly billy!

[@pops71]

Fantastic technique. I have done similar, fret rock and spot level, but your method is next level. Great work. One tool I think would fit your method is the Hosco UFO, check it out if you aren’t familiar with it. How do you like the wide fret press from the UK? When (or if) you do mono-scale guitars do you use it to an arbor press?

[@fleadoggreen9062]

Hey what happened to Chekhov??? Did mccoy save him and why didn’t he save the other patients??

[@wildwindguitars]

If I remember correctly McCoy runs his scanner over the other patients and cures their various ills. They all start thinking it's a miracle and create enough havoc allowing them all to escape the hospital.

[@ivanpejovic382]

Say you put fret rocker over first three frets. No rocks, perfect. Or the first one is high? Or the third? Or maybe the second one you pressed harder and it is lower, the wood gave a bit... But no rocks, all good. Move the tool and you find the third fret is high and when you level it maybe now the second is a bit high to the rocker. By the time you get around to check all of them in order to save 0.03 mm in height and few minutes crowning they should be half way leveled, crowned and shiny. And you can use fine diamond leveling files instead of sanding beam, sand paper tends to give as it is not super hard, even when glued to flat surface. It is also not uniform thickness and wears down, there are tolerances just like with the fretwire height and your CNC, no matter how good it is. And you also have to sand after machining to make wood pretty. Leveling ensures good height correlation between frets when done properly and one could argue that no excess material needs to be removed in the process. Oh, and keep that rocker parallel to imaginary string on the neck or otherwise you will get false reading on radiused boards.

[@Bluesruse]

Putting a fret rocker on the first fret is already a fail.

[@jackycoudray6029]

Nice video again. And what a subject... Frets are driving me crazy, I still have two of my project that need a fret leveling and I hate doing that! (that is probably why my current one is a fretless 😅). I will try to find that stewmac rocker to give it a try like you do 😉, maybe that way I will stop procrastinate on those fret jobs... Cheers from France! 🇫🇷

[@MarkGutierrez]

Hi Jacky, frets used to drive me crazy too. Getting the right tools really helped make the process much easier. Good luck with your fret jobs.

[@peachmelba1000]

Ce n'est pas les frets qui vous fache. C'est probablement le bois.

[@Uegd67hju]

Nice to see I'm not the only one working on a time machine.

[@kmatax9237]

what brand/model cutters do you use for stainless steel wire? i noticed the red stewmac cutters are getting mangled jut trying to nip SS wire!

[@MarkGutierrez]

It's a two step process for me. First I use the absolutely cheapest cutter I money can buy. They will get mangles but they are essentially disposable. Then I clean the cut end of the fret wire with the Summit cutter. These cutters cut through the SS with ease and they will last a long time. www.jescarguitar.com/product-category/summit-professional-tools/

[@kmatax9237]

@@MarkGutierrez ... and thats what I'll do too. thanks!

[@SixString_J5]

I halfway agree with you. 100% you should check your frets with a rocker before leveling to see if it is even necessary. If you have properly cut fret slots and didn't use glue, you can often tap the high fret and get it level with a smooth brass or dead blow hammer. If you can't get uniform level with the hammer, if there are 5+ high frets, i'd rather do a whole level and crown and know it's right.

[@Dudeitsmeee]

this answered a question. It's the fret tolerances during extrusion that make perfectly seated frets imperfect all across the board. You can have a perfect board, perfect slots, and imperfect fretwire. I too asked, why are we leveling frets? Is most fretwire imperfect? Yes. Yes it is.

[@patrickmcvay2390]

Sir: the concept is called “tolerance stack.” In a manufacturing environment, the effect of several small deviations from the desired dimensions in a part compounding until the part exhibits an undesirable characteristic. The choice of using a precise, and very expensive, process to produce perfect parts every time, or use a less expensive process and correct the parts later to bring them into spec is a difficult one, particularly when a manufacturing innovation can come out next week that can change the variables in play. Excellent video!

[@KeepChessSimple]

What is this 'fall off' leveling of the highest frets? (that didn't need leveling?)

[@MarkGutierrez]

Ha, that fall off is something that most luthiers do out of habit or tradition. I actually stopped adding a fall off in my latest builds. It is supposed to help the strings have room to oscillate and provide slightly lower action at the high frets. I now believe it isn't necessary.

[@starvingmillett]

I love the soundtrack. It has some very Blade Runner era Vangelis parts.

[@yorkyyshire]

2 potential solutions theoretically. If the fret tolerance was the only issue. Which it most likely is a big part of it but not the only part, making a jig with a die or some other mechanical form of correction that you could pull the wire threw to eliminate the inconsistency in the wire before installation would be one method. This would probably be the least likely seeing as how it’s such a tight tolerance and SS doesn’t manipulate in that way without heat or abrasives. The second would be a tool that could be run over the fret to produce a perfect height from the fret board to the crown however the radius of the fret board would make this extremely difficult by hand. I believe tools like this exist but more for getting the crown than a perfect height. Unfortunately the fact that wood tends to adjust to all sorts of environmental factors it’s really more complicated than that. I remember watching a video on PRS and how the make up to 30 adjustments to the neck day over day bc each adjustment will cause a reaction from the wood and hence requiring another adjustment. Maybe a better solution would be something other than frets? Not necessarily fret less but an alternative? Out of the box solution..? Like a aluminum neck with the frets machined out of it, or possibly a processes of manufacturing that allows fret wire to be installed in a different fashion.

[@EbonyPope]

That's what I said too. No matter how good your CNC machine is in his example we're talking about wood. It's inherently unstable and constantly changes. You would have to use non natural materials to achieve better stability... However this would pose a problem for acoustic instruments since a lot of the sound characteristics come from the wood.

[@stevepethel6843]

Seems like worth a try. ..creative technique.thank you very much

[@dusterowner9978]

Why couldn't they make the fret kisser with a round shape file and level and crown at the same time ???

[@fufc1231]

Sounds like it would be extremely annoying to use tbh

[@dusterowner9978]

@@fufc1231 It was just a thought

[@G120-j6z]

Excellent video! It was interesting for me to see that you and I ended up developing virtually the identical approach. Great minds think alike! 😆 Immediately leveling all the frets probably came out of luthiers’ desire to get things done very quickly. If you don’t care about some height loss, you don’t even need to check anything; just blast everything level, crown, and Bob’s your uncle. When I learned 45 years ago, that was somewhat the norm. It took me a long time before I decided to start by spot leveling first, and working to avoid touching any frets I didn’t have to. In my view your approach should be the expected standard in guitar repair, and it’s wonderful that you made this available for people starting out. There are so many “instructional” videos by nubes, and people with lower standards. So I guess you have high standards as a luthier, AND as a KZbin contributor! Outstanding work.

[@flamulated]

What kind of fret radius tool is that ? I have ancient Stew Mac on on last legs and that one looks nicer

[@MarkGutierrez]

GMC Luthier Tools out of the UK. Nice company. Good tools.

[@juliocezarkattah2963]

I am curious on how you did this inlay on the scale, which material, can you teach us? It's pretty beautiful 😄!

[@AntonioCavicchioni]

Would it be posible to grind the frets using the CNC and then polish?

[@joseluisorellano69]

Wich brand of masking tape are you using? Looks stronger than the normal masking tape found on most stores...

[@MarkGutierrez]

It is Scotch brand tape for fragile surfaces. Link in description.

[@chopperrage]

C'mon Mark, post more often than regulary! I really like u'r guitar builds videos. U're doin' great job and I kinda like u'r ASMR-ish sound. I'm an engineer and guitarist too. Greetings from Romania!

[@MarkGutierrez]

Thanks so much for the encouragement! I'll try to post more often.

[@machine.grundberg]

@@MarkGutierrez Keep the posting quality up over quantity, your attention to detail is what keeps me coming back. From the star trek references & "time travel" labeled boxes to you composing the music it all adds up to really great content. Thoughtful content is timeless. Im working on plans for a headless 7 string currently and all your videos make me rethink my process and plans. videos that inspire hit a bit different than thrown together youtube nonsense.

[@devong.4042]

This may not be the best solution but what if someone designed a tool similar to the one you used to spot level but when you run it over the fret it brings it down to the right level and also rounds over the fret to there is little to no touch up. Not sure how difficult this would be to design or manufacture but it seems to me like it would be easier than trying to round over each fret once you level them.

[@idiotburns]

haha 😆

[@flppr1]

Wow, talk about minimum effective dose! Weird star trek stuff aside, I totally appreciate your approach to fret leveling and will use the 2 color pens going fwd. What are your thoughts about tapping a high fret down with a non- metal jewelry hammer? What's happening when a formerly level fret board develops a high or low fret all of a sudden? Liked and subd.