Marriage Debate | Germaine Greer | Proposition

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The Motion: This House Believes the State Should Not Recognise Marriage.
Germaine Greer continues the case for the proposition, as the fith speaker of eight in the debate.
The motion was defeated.
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[@peterhoughton3770]

Whenever Germaine Greer speaks the comments section is disabled - except here. Gotta say, I'm an Australian male from a conservative background. I'm as proud of his woman as anyone. She a fearless original. It's fearless originals who stand up to orthodoxy, conformity and sheeple everywhere. She's funny, provocative, sometimes right, sometimes wrong. When she's gone we'll realise what a legend she was.

[@smallvillekal-elkent8099]

Not very often at all I read something on here and agree with it whole heartedly

[@sashahosseini9358]

Couldn't agree more. Perfect comment

[@mckavitt13]

What a legend she is.

[@dra2033]

this is so true

[@charleshill2121]

In today's Society standing up to orthodoxy is the action of the Sheep. You're all rebels, you're all individuals, you're all special and unique and you're all the bloody same. Today orthodoxy is the last great possible Rebellion. But I agree she's not bad for a liberal. 😉😁

[@davidcarroll9995]

She is absolutely one of my heroes; speaking the truth plainly and directly.

[@gardenroom65]

No children, she doesn’t get why we stay.

[@DrJams]

No. Just another feminist full of misandry

[@DrJams]

Old hag ranting.

[@ASMRyouVEGANyet]

I'm not married and never have been but I think a good conversation to have before considering marriage is to ask what he/she expects of you as a spouse and to also tell them what you expect of them.

[@lepolhart3242]

@@joyc9323 I couldn't be bothered as most of it is fantasy land as very few men are worthy of my time.

[@emilyb5278]

I think this too I think being more realistic about the reality. I also think you agree what you are going to do it you divorse by law to prevent child trauma. I think children do better in a large family I also think mothers do better with female support from mum sister other mums esp if divorced. I think bring retirement down to 50 so gran is free and young enough to help I also think mothers should live communally together as mums start to reject kids emotionally when over burdened by work and parenting so I think a community of women helping women who have no support would be be good.

[@oseasviewer7108]

And that is truly a difficult conversation and confronting - expect pushback because ego, pride and relevance is brought under the spotlight.

[@kwynrhys]

I grew up in a single parent household. My mother struggled immeasurably to raise the 3 children she had. My father, who lived 15 minutes car drive away, never partook in our lives. He didn't support us financially or other. He was the epitome of what women hate in some men...irresponsible and narcissistic. Men who are responsible need to confront men that are not. Much like women need to confront other women on their irresponsibility.

[@shinmalphur9214]

You can be irresponsible and narcissistic as much you want, just as you can be the most responsible and most caring person, women will divorce you anyway because current system allows them to do so on their every fucking whim. So don't bother.

[@face-in-the-crowd]

All men should have to pay 50% of their earnings, whether the men are present or not. If CSA payments were 50% then people wouldn't take taking a child so lightly

[@stillthepillar684]

The point was eluded to at the beginning. "Marriage vows" If you dont take them seriously then marriage will not work... take the rest of the debate and toss it.

[@Raven4508]

Don't blame feminism for male communication issues. If a males upbringing regarding social communication with anyone is broken, that is the male genders failure to work on their own issues, and a society that is clearly becoming more narcissistic, where male narcissism is on the increase.

[@zerowheeler]

Jacob Richardson because they are very charming until it no longer serves them, same can happen in both sexes.

[@vernahutchinson9710]

I have struggled as a 72 yr old woman. Thanks to Germaine I understand why I’ve been confused, I paid all the prices required to be Free Now I see I shot myself in the foot , I’m a kind loving person who became a cold calculating human in order to survive , it was my understanding of how to play ball learn to be female all over again and us older woman will reach out and lift you up .

[@genewhite9408]

72 and no man? You're the problem.

[@julianaglas8485]

Love to you Verna, and the women who came before us paving the way to be strong and capable.

[@julianaglas8485]

@@genewhite9408 I hope to God I have the same fate as her. Women are much happier single, men are much happier married, look at the statistics. It is you that needs us, not the other way around.

[@physical_insanity]

@@julianaglas8485 >Women are much happier single In their 20's, sure, but indulging yourself in the present without thinking about the future is irresponsible at best and stupid at worst. Once they hit 30, the ride goes downhill faster than you can say auto-gynephilia. Women are happiest when they're provided for, but because of the female biological imperative, they're always wanting more. You need men in order to have children and fulfil your biological imperative, but you also need a strong man in order to provide for that same family. It's only a tiny minority of women who can be satisfied without a partner, but that doesn't prove anything.

[@physical_insanity]

@@roslindale I was speaking generally, where most women are heterosexual, you freshwater gyroid. My point still stands regardless, because a lesbian relationship is still a partnership of co-dependency, and if the butch/femme dynamic is anything to go by, it's the same as having a masculine provider, sans the ability to naturally produce children.

[@curoseba5363]

I am so happy to live in a time where someone like her exists. She is the real deal. But not many people are paying attention.

[@lordfreeza_]

curoseba she's an idiot

[@stillthepillar684]

She is very intelligent indeed, with one very drastic misconception. That fads and change are always good, theyre not. The problem is not marriage, but what makes people so bad at it. Staying married is a virtue and should always be looked at as one.

[@LilySaintSin]

curoseba Me too! She's brilliant!

[@Raven4508]

Not - she is a highly respected third wave feminist...

[@MC-gt6yp]

That guy was a liberal transgender loving twat. He was judge mental and was hearing what he wanted to hear like all liberals do

[@marynordseth2788]

Germaine Greer you Rock! Most people can't bear the truth. It takes a strong back to live among such types.

[@justvibin1087]

Master Yoda Don't bother debating feminists. They're children in adult bodies. Most women are. They have no idea what it's like to be responsible for anything!!! Always whining about how men need to solve all women's problems and that ALLLLLLL of women's issues are sexist patriarchy and used it to "oppress" women. They only want white knights to save them from any work they have to do, and to sit back and be worshipped for existing like entitled toddlers. Just leave them alone to live in their own delusional world, and wait for Islam to take over and establish patriarchy once again.

[@shinmalphur9214]

Lmao, Mary, i sallute you. You just literally expressed what is it being a male in a gynocentric society.

[@justvibin1087]

Renzokuken XI Yeah maybe once the Africans and Arabs come in they'll finally shut the fuck up.

[@physical_insanity]

@@justvibin1087 Bro, that is the most boss thing I've read all week. Kinda harsh, but bro, epic.

[@Ranger4402]

To all women: Do you want to get married or have a really really really nice and fancy wedding? Never ever confuse the two! Planning a marriage and planning a wedding are two totally different things. The former is far more important than the latter.

[@ASMRyouVEGANyet]

Ranger4402 women know the difference. Girls don't.

[@lami2909]

Ranger4402 It's nonsense to blame the divorce rate on women. Men cheat all the time. Men do you want to spend your life with this woman or sling your dick around? Never confuse the two.

[@Raven4508]

I don't know of anyone who has planned a marriage - financially is usually the only way these days with pre-nups.

[@Sbj0206]

Ranger4402 you are right.... wedding is for a day and ends with it... but marriage is for life, it needs live, dedication, forgiveness and submission to each other...

[@Karl-88]

Maybe Not. I know almost as many women as men who have and are cheating on there spouse at this moment in time. Your comment is just nonsense.

[@buru44]

As a debater I must say, her delivery is excellent!

[@bluewrenreilly129]

It ought to be she has been doing it all her life.

[@RK-ep8qy]

buru44 you should see the interviews she did in the 80s, even if you didn’t agree with her she was definitely a force in the room

[@genewhite9408]

Your debating skills are shit. " As a debater I must say,". That's proof enough that you're a joke. Just make your point next time, moron.

[@svendbosanvovski4241]

She's has a bit of practice.

[@mansnotbot4160]

@@genewhite9408 Jesus, how can someone called Gene be that angry.

[@NO-jf3tc]

One of a few remaining voices of reason. She is a real treasure.

[@genewhite9408]

Nope. Not even close to being true. Enjoy your years of awkward relationships.

[@trishseal]

Her words are more relevant to me as a woman now than ever before....and I love her no nonsense attitude!

[@enclave2k1]

I'm curious, what words specifically?

[@janefreer4707]

@@enclave2k1 all of them!

[@preciliabuya5456]

@@janefreer4707go on, life by them. See where you ends up 😂

[@lone263]

Like Germaine Greer, straight talking!

[@louise-yo7kz]

My Hero

[@td3701]

betdam, and it should also be compulsory that women are taught to avoid misogynists like you!

[@krishna_o15]

@Rory Lion she same as modern femenist asking for women to be paid for house work.

[@enclave2k1]

Yeah she speaks her mind. Shame her mind is filled with so much fallacious thinking.

[@DerryPope]

"Why would the answer to that question be important?" I'm writing that down, such a brilliant retort to such an empty question.

[@maiasolomon78]

'Why would the answer to that question be important'. Best comeback ever!

[@havardhullen889]

He couldn't parse her argument at all, and was actually changing the subject, so yes.

[@aliboyaliman6207]

If that's the 'best comeback ever' for you then you need to watch some more debates.

[@rsu8689]

It's the best comeback because it saves the debater five minutes of arguing about nothing instead of saying what she is there to say. They love to distract you with bullshit, a very important subject according to Valerie Solanas.

[@erheaflower4318]

Sounds more like an avoidance. Families are morw likely to stay together if the parents are married, which would avoid single parent households

[@jaseanthony70]

E Rhea Flower that is not fact sweetheart

[@marlenemcmillan8891]

Believe me I left an abusive marriage with 2 children and it was very difficult....but I would never change my decision....very good video

[@sakurakou2009]

marlene mcmillan do you feel like marrying again ?

[@marlenemcmillan8891]

sakurakou2009 never....

[@Raven4508]

I too had an emotionally abusive marriage - to an NPD - 21 years married... I would NEVER EVER marry again.... thank goodness - no children, so he couldn't get to them and cause CPTSD...

[@rozwellmusic1930]

But not all marriages are so bad. Not all people are bad. Not all men are bad. Not all women are bad. We need to strive for the best. Look at what makes a happy marriage and strive to be that kind of person and LOOK for that kind of person for yourself. Even if people don't get married they often gravitate to the type of person they had in their marriage.

[@bluewrenreilly129]

Well, what did you do that caused you to be abused?

[@crystalemeralddiamond9571]

She's a star. Still so intelligent and so sensible.

[@genewhite9408]

You're ate up like a soup sandwich.

[@crystalemeralddiamond9571]

@@genewhite9408 ?

[@genewhite9408]

@@crystalemeralddiamond9571 11 up and 3 down.

[@crystalemeralddiamond9571]

Motown on 11. None down.

[@4june9140]

Germaine Creer, you are a legend, full of common sense and speak your mind

[@joshuashepard9845]

You cannot live in a country that celebrates money over love, and self over peers, and expect marriage to succeed. You put the sword to the throats of your enemies and say, "Look at how they fall! They clearly had no value to begin with!"

[@KiRetteCouture]

Very good argument!

[@IuliaBlaga]

Getting married is the best thing I have done in my life so far. IMO a lot of marriages end not because of vows or "systems" but because of the people today. Nowadays we sell the house instead of replacing the light bulb. Nobody is willing to fight for something, to make compromises, to sacrifice the part to redeem the whole. In a marriage you are supposed to help one another grow and develop.

[@lukejackson1575]

Completely agree. People don't try hard enough.

[@llIlIlllII]

I think people also dont want to accept the decisions that go into finding the right house arent limited to its curb appeal x'D

[@davez5201]

The reason a higher percentage of marriages end in divorce now is because it's easier to divorce now. It is that simple. No-fault divorce was only legalised very recently, within the last 50 years.

[@memnarch129]

This is what Germaine doesnt understand. Its not the system its the "Feminists" like herself and how they have taught women to treat men that has caused the divorce rate. Those like her have taught a generation of women that men are kicking and beating you and wanting to keep you down. Its total horseshit and she knows that. Its not the vows or the institution of marriage thats the problem, its the people and their views that are.

[@Helen-oh1no]

I agree with you very much!

[@StephenS-2024]

Allow me to share, seems like almost every video with Germaine has comments disabled. I understand. Inflammatory stuff. Just wanted to say that i think she's incredible. Nothing but respect and admiration for this wise straight shooter. And i feel a little sorry for Opie here. Not a good idea to challenge her. Better pack a lunch boy.

[@sasamask7216]

Well spoken, eloquent, stands her ground and not afraid to say what she means, no fallse pretense here. Politicians take a note.

[@DCI-Frank-Burnside]

The odd thing is Greer and Hitchen's converge in agreement on what many of the problems are in modern society. The major source of argument between them is the causes.

[@janemills1839]

I love this woman, she says what millions of woman think but would never say in public. She won't agree just to fit in, she's had a fascinating life and offers her views, if unpopular with passion. She doesn't fit in, kind of lives on the perimeter speaking her truth and I love that. Her views on marriage are spot on, it's outdated, doesn't suit the vast majority of people and yet we all do it. Problem is exterior forces come into play and time changes your expectations and they we either disappoint or are disappointed. Having a child will overnight alter someone's needs and you become someone else, I used to think we need a mum and a dad to do the job but now I know that's not true because all the really hard tedious mundane stuff can only be carried out by one person, whether it's a man or a woman, so do we need a spouse at all? Xx

[@supernovaspirit79]

MIND.BLOWN..Germaine owned this talk..

[@rozwellmusic1930]

The problem isn't marriage. It's morality. If you wreck your car you don't refuse to buy another one. And you don't even think of never driving again... you ask what happened. What went wrong? Most of the time, one or both parties is focusing only on self, themselves, at the expense of the other. We need to learn, and it isn't easy, to become more "selfless"... not more self-centered.

[@spybubbble]

Your analogy is flawed. A car is a necessity in a lot places for logical reasons, a marriage is not. You can have a fulfilling monogamous relationship without getting married and it’s easier to leave when it becomes unfulfilling. Less and less people are getting married because it’s slow to keep up with current times. Marriage is a humanmade concept, and if it doesn’t do a major reformation it’s in danger of being obsolete in the future.

[@user-it6jy6xr6s]

No matter what people are saying please know that you are correct. Nowadays people think that the remedy for selfishness is more selfishness. And then they are trying to find out what is going wrong with marriages.

[@shookone568]

Divorce is a multi-variant problem that shouldn’t be laid solely at the feet of the institution of marriage. It certainly doesn’t show how women have the short end of the stick when it comes to marriage. Women, just like men, leave for all sorts of reasons including selfish reasons. Greer has some valid points but her overall point in this video is muddied by her feminist biases. Still a good speech though.

[@jeanc7921]

She’s brilliant. It is a ridiculous contract. May as well negotiate all the terms and clauses if we are going to continue with this institution.

[@VivKittie32]

Peter Hitchin’s face.. 😂

[@dreamer2260]

Yeah he's a rather unhappy, stuffy fellow.

[@GordonGarvey]

She can cite the ridiculously high divorce rate of the UK all she wants, but it doesn't have any relevance when looking at the whole picture. She should compare it to how it was before certain legal and cultural changes. Look across the Irish sea and you'll find it to be but a fraction of that in the UK at only 13% of marriages. She should take off those feminist lenses for a while and try to make an opinion based on how it effects children (especially) and men rather than just women. What's the alternative she's proposing?

[@mchapman132]

She’s a remarkable woman, who should not be silenced.

[@rustylocks9264]

Haha Germaine. So passionate and knowledgable. Straight to the point!

[@DrJams]

Knowable? She hasn't said much more than baisc knowledge.

[@Wildcamp-lifestyle]

Marriage can be a pretty shit deal for men as well.

[@RevantuZ]

I don't think that "because nearly 50% of marriages end in divorce, if you get married, you are almost 50% likely to get divorced" is a logical conclusion. There is a lot more to it - is the divorce rate what it is because marriage itself is bad, or because people getting married nowadays are being reckless? Are YOU and your spouse-to-be this same type of reckless people? I'm fairly certain people in the past took marriage far more seriously than today. Yes, marriage has a great element of love; but it is also a commitment, a responsibility, and people don't seem to see that anymore. People don't have standards anymore, they cannot see warning signs that the partner they've chosen probably isn't a good person to get married to. It's no surprise - society values marriage less and less as time goes by, so people jump into it more recklessly, only to find that they've hugely underestimated what it is.

[@jodyjohnsen]

Wow! Interesting. I have long known that marriage is a trap. We don’t get all the rules and implications until we want out. In an attempt to avoid that I asked my partner to help me set down on paper exactly what marriage would entail. He accused me of being clinical, sterile, lacking in people skills. He was probably correct. But the marriage did not happen and he has moved on to bad-mouthing me from afar. No long term damage done. I feel as if I dodged a bullet.

[@Takiki]

You did well!!

[@rtd7066]

Germaine...do you have any dated coming up for Vancouver BC? I hope you will be around for some time to come. We need your voice and experience and wisdom for still some time to come.

[@jennyli365]

Marriage is not for love. It is contract. How sad, but it is true.

[@ExploringWater]

In a godless world, Germaine Greer makes sense.

[@Aria-Invictus]

The world is Godless. There is no God. But her accuracy is irrelevent to that fact.

[@mchapman132]

@@Aria-Invictus - Are you sure of that statement? You better hope you’re correct.

[@Aria-Invictus]

@@mchapman132 i am absolutely sure. Not only does God not exist, but it cannot exist any more than it is possible for a married bachelor or a virgin whore to exist.

[@mchapman132]

@@Aria-Invictus - Go easy on the drugs pal.

[@Aria-Invictus]

@@mchapman132 I don't take drugs. Go easy on the cults. They will make you believe that a man is God, or that you will live after you die, or that there is a spooky ghost watching and judging you and other sorted stupid shit like that. Oh shit. My bad. That ship has sailed. :D

[@shaanz2.087]

Thank u ...such guts & glory. Kudos

[@evedotcom]

I don't know if I 100% agree with her take, though I think I do for the most part, but regardless, I love listening to her. So fiercely, refreshingly honest. Thank you Germaine.

[@SB-zi4db]

Brilliant Germaine Greer

[@humanearthling4661]

If I had a nickle for every time I asked someone if I was speaking a foreign language, I would be wealthy because most people do not HEAR WHAT IS SAID; They hear what their misconceptions tell them. Ms Greer caught that one good! And she called him on it. Even before I got my divorce (it took only 14 days for the judge to sign it!) I had done my homework. I went to counseling--my husband refused to keep an appointment. I'd read a book for divorcees, which mentioned that the first sound I would hear after my divorce was to be doors slamming against me from married friends....and it HAPPENED; so I was not surprised. I had no time to socialize anyway that first year after my divorce as I set about to right our living standards and create a more healthful environment for my children' free from the stress he caused regularly. IN MY CASE, my income level improved because my husband had kept us in debt from his senseless and willful purchases by his own decision, and I could see nothing before us but debt and more debt. I already had had to take on the payment on our mortgage because though I would give him the whole amount each month, it somehow never made it to the bank to pay down the mortgage; we almost lost the home to foreclosure. He was of the opinion that the man should handle the income of both spouses, though I always brought in income equal to his. He doled out so little to me that I would not have ice cream money when the truck came by. I once had my son's fourth grade teacher , after bragging on his character and study habits (2 1/2 YEARS after my divorce) which earned him top grades, tell me she could see that he was a perfect example of a child from an UNBROKEN HOME. I had to gently enlighten her....I can still see her face. YES.....for most women , marriage is the worst deal they can make in their lives. I never remarried because I had had enough of the marriage "institution" by then. Also, I could already learn from friends how second marriages created their own set of ADDITIONAL problems. Nevertheless, my relations and subsequent relationships with males have been very satisfying, for your information, any of you unbelievers. I would appreciate comments on my comment. I forgot to say, so had to edit this. He didn't pay child support nor contact his children unless I instigated it because they wanted to see their dad. Eventually they figured out there was nothing there emotionally for them on their own.

[@randolphscott3361]

Is it just me but as I get older Ms Greer makes more and more sense.

[@indiraeisenberg1668]

Single parents without marraige is equally tough and even then children land up with the mother as the father of the child doesn't even acknowledge the child.

[@harassment100]

It's interesting that Germaine's advice is to not get married- this is also the advice of many MRAs. Maybe marriage is just a suicide mission for both men and women

[@Bulhakas]

What does MRA stand for?

[@Harold_Flite]

@@Bulhakas mens rights advocates.

[@hedkandicaine]

I think so...marriage isnt something I want to go for and I am not some crazy cat lady. I can also see why men these days dont want marriage or kids too.

[@FruityHachi]

@@hedkandicaine i don't want to get married either, sounds like a control move from the masses to make you suffer like they are. like how parents look down on childfree people, belittling them, calling them selfish. and with 3rd wave feminism when a woman can make up some lie to ruin a man's life and the court system favoring women, i'm not suprised men go their own way,

[@diana-cy4kj]

Dom Women go their own way as well...You know...

[@idcraw]

I was divorced and had custody of my two children I am a man and never got a cent of support from the ex wife

[@robc1765]

but you see no one cares about men, her stats are old and out of date and the non resident parent is alienated from their children in most cases, you don't see your kids regularly, pay an exorbitant amount of child support for them and live poorly while your ex wife lives a good life and the children never see a red cent of the money you're paying support for them. In North America, there is "maintenance enforcement", if you owe child support and don't pay it, they will take it automatically off of your paycheque and deposit it electronically into your ex spouse's bank account - there is no escaping child support. In Canada child support is not taxed, so the parent receiving child support makes tax free additional income but the person paying child support pays income tax on that same child support they're paying. Boo hoo, women struggling, please spare me this buillshit, no one gives a shit about the men that commit suicide at unmatched rates, no group is higher, and the divorce rates in North America are just under 90% for marriages less than 10 years in length, 75% of those divorces are initiated by women, women make alimony and child support and men live in poverty as a result and if you're one of those few lucky men that fight for and finally achieve 50% child custody, you still pay child support if you make more than your spouse. Answer me this, why should a man have to fight for EQUAL custody of his children? When does a woman ever have to fight for EQUAL custody of her children? It doesn't happen because the system is geared toward protecting women. The answer, men learning to say NO to marriage. Stop having children with women, stop marrying women, live your lives without them and take care of yourselves - there is no benefit to men getting married, there is too much benefit to women getting married and having children. Women want to get married, just say NO to that horseshit - it's not worth it.

[@idcraw]

I had custody you dumby you have all the answers LOL

[@robc1765]

@@idcraw shhhh precious.... just like I mentioned in my original reply, nobody gives a shit that you didn't get a cent of support from your ex wife, no one cares about men, they only care about women, but you keep replying back, its not necessary "dumby"

[@humanearthling4661]

@ idcraw -- Thank God there are males who are 100 % responsible Men. You must have had a good judge because most of them will leave the children with the woman even if she is not the fittest one in the marriage; almost as if they want the children to turn out damaged.

[@EmilyRose1]

If respectful and equal, marriage is a really strong foundation on which to bring up the next generation. I also think a lifelong marriage can help to draw out of people many really essential qualities, such as selflessness, deferred gratification, patience, ability to plan long term, etc.

[@ASMRyouVEGANyet]

Emily Rose true. But most marriages are not like this.

[@agisler87]

ASMRyouVEGANyet? Yes, because we have a society of boys that only want to play video games and not take responsibility. Likewise while the definition of what a woman can do, stay at home or work, it hasn't changed for men. They are expected to still be the breadwinner by woman.

[@AlanWattResistance]

Thankfully things are now beginning to really become equal. Men can now choose not to participate in the game, where women are free from gender-roles, but men are still expected to be chivalrous breadwinners. Men can lead lives by their own rules and not those of women or society. MGTOW is true gender-equality.

[@BenDover-ij7yp]

Andrew Gisler Those boys are playing videogames because they have nothing to fight for. In the old days, men got married very young and then they work and for their families. Marriage in this day and age is a bad deal for men. It's like: Would you like to become homeless, but with a mortgage to in 5-10 years down the line? Just sign a marriage contract.

[@rozwellmusic1930]

Attila, that is a very bad way to look at it. Marriage is actually much better for men. It's the divorce that is worse for them, generally speaking, if there are children. Oh, and divorce is so very BAD for children too, generally speaking. We have a vested interest as a society to see marriages succeed. But people need to be more selfless... more thoughtful, more respectful, and more loving in general. Less ego driven.

[@kittybusz1892]

even still today, she is the most iconic feminist of our time

[@synesthesiagirl]

Thank you so much for saying these things.

[@Ninsidhe]

Marriage is actually a contractual relationship and the sooner this is realised the better worded the legal contracts will become- individuals need to have conversations regarding realistic child support in the case of future dissolution of the relationship, women need to recognise that pregnancy, childbirth and child rearing are activities that can actually hugely disadvantage them over time when it comes to being able to amply support themselves in the future should they find themselves later in life divorced- while the current legal landscape around marriage refuses to recognise that it truly is contractual in nature we cannot hope to shift the dinosaur attitudes of those in power (which are mostly white males from middle class and above economic backgrounds) who don't like to change the laws because in the backs of their minds they're thinking about how it might affect *their* situations in the future. I have taught my daughters to view very seriously the issue of pregnancy and childrearing because I know personally how profoundly the effect of being out of the workplace for decades can have on a woman who then finds herself divorced. In Australia the leading group of homeless individuals are women over the age of 55, many of whom have been reduced to living in their cars because they cannot afford housing. It's not something to be taking lightly.

[@oseasviewer7108]

Offer that insight to a 20 year old TikTok 'Disney Princess' dazzled by the fantasy of a starring role in staged elegance, a grand party, focused attention and photo op in a designer overpriced white dress.

[@TheUnknownSwan]

That kid standing and stating she said something she did not, in fact, more stating something in support of what his outburst was all about, shows how easily distracted our youth is with selective hearing, and these strange abrupt interruptions they all think they have a right to (probably because they literally grew up with a smart phone in their hand - which by the way is a sub-topic to this discussion). It's ridiculous. If I were her, I'd be thinking, oh God, why am I here if no one can hear me or understand what I'm saying? What's the point?

[@miles3379]

She's talking shi*. My ex took my child away to Canada back in 2000 and there was nothing I could do about it because we weren't married so I didn't have parental responsibility, despite paying for my son and being on the birth certificate. Men have been screwed by marriage just as much, if not more than, women because women, by default, automatically just get the kids, regardless of who is right / wrong, etc.

[@tpl2023]

"a system that can be relied upon to fail, nearly half of the time, is a pretty terrible system". True.

[@angieagentlesoul]

Wow! That was powerful. Wanted her to keep speaking. So damn smart.

[@kurtn652]

Got a divorce from my wife. She ran around w other men while I raised my daughter by myself and I had to pay her child support. Sounds patriarchal to me.

[@cirimpufka]

Of course it does. Not to me though.

[@blakependlebury8205]

🙄

[@hishamelfiki8111]

Extremely brilliant

[@deniseg-hill1730]

The breakdown of marriage in our society has created a mass of problems.

[@Anna-tz9zk]

None of her criticisms seem to be about marriage itself but rather flaws in our approach to marriage. Genuinely curious as to what alternative she would propose, and how she would define marriage?

[@anastasia10017]

I cant hear the guy's question

[@ifyoueverfind78]

people can be immoral, or unreasonable. people can argue,disagree, and fight...in my opinion, marriage has nothing to do with it. people do. people also lie....if you think you have a group of friends or not being married to someone is better, that may be untrue as well. for reasons I stated above....I like the concept of marriage, and in some cases it works. you have to be careful enough to pick the right person, to get to know them beforehand, and to plan your lives. so it may not work..so what...the thing is I like the concept and a stable marriage, a good marriage, I think Is generally good for kids and society.

Greer doesn't get it and has never got it - even for the five years she was married. Her basic premise that men hate women is just misandrist and wrong. Most men have their most enduring and stable loving relationship with a woman - their mother - every man is a mother's son - and most hope to find the women who is their other half to make them whole, a family, and if blessed, parents of a child or children, and grandchildren. Marriage is the cornerstone of civilised society and any society with ambitions to be civilised and decent should support the family financially and spiritually and practically - a point not understood in Britain since 1979.

[@antonioguarco4515]

If the question is - Is it more likely that those who have children more often become single parents when they are married or when they are not prior to becoming parents, then it’s an entirely reasonable question to be asking.

[@liammccarron8191]

Ask her about men becoming women. Feminism has truly shot it self in the foot.

[@2126Eliza]

The nerve of that MRA interrupting her while she's talking.

[@BenDover-ij7yp]

2126Eliza I don't think he was an MRA. He was "defending" single parents, so he was more likely a self-proclaimed feminist.

[@pythagorasnine]

Rather he THOUGH he was defending single parents because he was a typical 'leftist' idiot regurgitating slogans he doesn't have the brains to understand, which was instantly, painfully obvious.

[@harassment100]

@sam 7 not sure if he was an MRA. I think he was just asking whether or not single mothers where more likely to be divorcees or not. It's interesting that Germaine's advice is to not get married- this is also the advice of many MRAs

[@harassment100]

sam 7 I think it depends on which men. I am a man and I personally find it refreshing when a women says that she does not want to get married.

[@BenDover-ij7yp]

@@harassment100 Feminists were against marriage and the family unit from the get go. Probably inspired by the Marxist definition of the patriarchy. He believed, the mens sense of ownership, gives them a sense of obligations, duty to take care of "their" women and children. Marx believed, only by destroying this concept we destroy capitalism. If men stop caring about their families, they won't participate in the capitalist system.

[@Silly.Old.Sisyphus]

English marriage is defined by its contract: "who giveth this woman to this man?"

[@vol.9543]

It’s not the institution; it’s people.

[@pythagorasnine]

It's both.

[@jumble-1238]

Some of those men look terrified. A lot of the time she says things I don’t agree with but a lot of the time she changes my mind she’s such a good speaker.

[@jardemooreb4100]

I hate being married, it a psychological illusion of being with just one person and both having your own ideas about what marriage is or what whatever, it doesn't matter of a soul status. Marriage is just a business like everything else you have to live in the moment, live in the flow, why tie yourself down to an idea, ideas change all the time and one person changes all the time, I mean you have to be free in your mind, body and soul and marriage is just to me another form of division it doesn't mean anything, and two people can come together to share an experience together but you don't have to commit to a life long whatever, everything changes, change it is inevitable...

[@TheNate206]

Vows are words. Parroted off well enough. SUperficial and surface level and meaningless by themselves. Most people dont know what marriage is nor do they know themselves or the partner they are marrying. Ignorance, naivety, idealism, and egotism. A teenage girls/boys fantasy. Reality kicks in soon enough. Meet the world half way and take responsibility for life. Marriage is a mess because we make it that way. Instead of parroting off words like love and commitment (two words most people do not understand even though they think they do), start looking at 'what is'. Look at your own fear, anger, hatred, insecurity, and malice. A marriage filled with hate and anger one has to idk maybe look at the HATE and ANGER. Telling them they need to love eachother when they dont is absurd.

[@gjsterp]

Why are there no wedding vows for the possible children who may result from the marriage, especially when most marriages expect and accept children as a result of marriage? If the couple do not want children then that should also be included in their vows. But it seems a vow for equal support of any children that may result from the marriage should be included in the vows.

[@tripleleotarot2416]

Marriage sure, weddings, nope. Between the white virginal dress, being “given away” from one man to another as property, taking their name... 😅 no thanks. Not to mention spending a ridiculous amount of money for a party to impress a bunch of people you barely speak to and expect them to spend a bunch of money. Ridiculous.

[@chordata1983]

Forget about marriage - have a parental contract instead - punishable by law if forfeited

[@chordata1983]

I meant 'neglected' not forfeited

[@myscrog]

What a woman. I admire her enormously.

[@lone263]

People really don't like common sense (AKA reality), while we are heading for a time when reality going to kick a lot of people hard in the ass!

[@seriousstrawberry3064]

She is being truthful

[@valeriy8502]

"Did anyone hear me say that? Am I speaking a foreign tongue?" My sentiment almost every time I converse with someone. "But you said this" no I didn't, and if we are on the internet we can even check beyond a doubt.

[@mouseutopiadystopia24601]

Marriage is the best situation for children. Women initiate the majority of divorces, mostly for frivolous reasons, and to the degree that they divorce for abuse or infidelity, women commit similar levels of abuse and infidelity, but men are less likely to divorce. When divorcing, women can be assured that courts will almost always reward her with primary custody, the house, alimony, and child support. Non-custodial fathers pay mandated child support at a higher rate than non-custodial mothers. Non-custodial fathers who do not pay mandated child support are punished more frequently and more harshly than non-custodial mothers who do not pay mandated child support. Single mothers receive more government subsidy than single fathers. The children of single biological mothers are more likely to abuse their children than single biological fathers. In marriage, wives deprive husbands of physical intimacy more than cohabitating girlfriends deprive boyfriends.

[@ps4455]

Yes. Her views are extremely outdated and she sounds like a bitter divorcee from the 1960s. Sad.

[@mouseutopiadystopia24601]

@@ps4455 She’s wrong in 2020. She’s (less) wrong in 1960.

[@jamesmacgregor3911]

Personally, I agree with her. Marriage is a constitution in its own right, yet those who profess they want to be married - and they get married and they then can't deal with whatever the difference is between being unmarried and being married. Why on earth couples who live with one another for goodness knows how long, then marry one another and one party to the marriage (or sometimes both) cannot deal with the difference (which is incredibly minimal). It's incredibly immature and irresponsible. You need to know who you are before you get married and you need you know you can deal with the person you are going to marry for the rest of your life. There needs to be a lot of practicality in marriage, it is like a contract (but people don't like to treat it like that because they feel that it's not love if you treat it like a business deal) but the truth is, when you get married (and I'm not married yet, away to get married and will be 20 when I get married). To religion out of the equation, a civil marriage - that is not an easy thing to commit to and you can't look at it through rose tinted glasses with your head in the clouds. It has to be based on reality.

[@oseasviewer7108]

The key element about marriage is that it is legally binding in terms of acquired property, chattels and debt (personal and business related) - when you sign your name to a document you can be held liable under the terms of that contract.

[@jamesmacgregor3911]

Correct, you become liable for your spouses activities and choices financially in the event of their inability to manage them. It's something that people should take far more seriously than they do and not get caught up in the romanticism of marriage as that isn't reflective on what really life is like.

[@1grfield]

Divorce creates poverty for both the woman and the man. Of course not in all cases.

[@keepingitwild5994]

We all know that marriage is boring! Does she have any alternatives other than being blatantly bias and blaming it all on men? I think not!

[@kathy259]

That's why I never married. I have lived in a relationship for many years, but I couldn't see the point in getting married. People get divorced anyway. I think this religious ceremony is ridiculous, people don't take it serious anyway.

[@robertmcelwaine7024]

So your argument is that people don't take it seriously so they shouldn't bother. They may as well not take relationships seriously at all then by that rationale. Let's not have relationships because people don't take them seriously anyway. That's what it pretty much amounts to. Too many people not taking their relationship seriously.

[@valsables5299]

I dated her. Now we're old.

[@bovnycccoperalover3579]

Perhaps we should have binding contracts before marriage occurs so people can iron things out before a possible divorce and the contract should also hammer out what would happen if they did divorce including possible children and property. I actually found agreement with both Mr. Hitchens and Ms. Greer. The state destroyed the previous marriage rules without creating new rules so we end up with anatchy, chaos and broken homes!

[@corra7]

Why don’t we have more women like her?

[@MaxItUpwithMarta]

"Why would the answer to that question be important?" --- I am going to remember that retort!

[@jimthompson939]

3:45 What did he say?

[@ESteen0815]

Could not the divorce rate be related to societal view of marriage today and not inherent in the system?

[@Bureih]

Oh my God! I never thought of marriage the way Greer does. Total Brutal Truth: Prologue. [The scene takes place in any place of worship. Priests and what not; bridegroom; bride; parents and families and acquaintances of both are present] Dick, do you take Vick to be your wedded wife, to live together in marriage? Do you promise to love her, comfort her, honor and keep her for better or worse, for richer or poorer, in sickness and health, and forsaking all others, be faithful only to her, for as long as you both shall live? *the Ideal Play is never completed since time immemorial*

[@brianhudson7822]

She is beyond brilliant. Love her!

[@eddiemcmaster4516]

spot on

[@robmitchell801]

So what is your point, Germaine? So what is your alternative choice(s), Germaine?

[@im-jn4vl]

i dont get all these comments about how good that was. shes basically said nothing.

[@voxsvoxs4261]

I'm rather confused, perhaps due to her articulation, her point goes as follows: Marriage currently has a high rate of failure and contractually loosely defines their relationship which leaves them open to unneccesary suffering. The purpose of marriage is to maintain the family through contract. Marriage should be removed due to this. Her argument is missing a reasonable alternative, family isn't being consistently maintained through marriage isn't a sufficient condition for it's abandonment. It's a sufficient claus for it's reinforcement perhaps however she didn't ultimately argue this.

[@qualitydag1]

Coming from a male.....wonderful points Germaine! You're are awesome!

[@d.b.cooper6112]

Happiness is Filing FIRST (66%), then Marrying Government! Hasn't worked anywhere else so we're due.

[@Real19821]

I like the brief psychoanalysis about FRIENDS.

[@michikoyao898]

this woman is totally evading individual responsibility. what the hell. yes, people who can not communicate about what they expect and want before marriage, fail, and that is not the fault of the system.

[@icaliver]

My instead of find the perfect mate, we should look for the one that will better each other with? I will admit the idea of marriage is confusing than it once was, but I think its the way each of us looks at marriage and our own interpretations of it and divorce is the easy out if we don’t like who the person chooses. Anyways great video.

[@lindab3249]

It would seem to me that any institution is only as trustworthy and solid as the people who engage in it. I don’t understand the friends reference in regards to an alternative family dynamic. Did not Chandler and Monica get married and adopt children?? Yes have friendships, a tribe of people that always have your back. But bear in mind that to do that, you must be a person of integrity yourself. Seems to me that Germaine would throw out the institution of marriage because the people who partake in it are flawed. But let me ask this: have you ever been hurt or betrayed by someone other than a spouse? If so, then throw out the institution of relationships in general. Just live as a hermit and that way you never risk the pain of injustice at the hand of another. Better idea: how about we just stop being asses and cheats and live lives of integrity. Stop being so doggone narcissistic. That should help a great many institutions, marriage included.

[@patsyk1213]

The problem is divorce and the behaviors that lead to divorce. Behaviors need to improve.

[@fredfrenchy]

I always understood that if there was a debate some kind of philosophical journey of communication... I just saw another video with Germaine Greer when she has been victimised by her college and maybe not be offering her a an honorary degree because she does not agree with transfluid transgender ideology and or whether it's a good thing for Society so she is now being blackmailed sidestepped beaten up abused by her own College or University which is absolutely f****** disgraceful these colleges etc should have open minds the f****** halfwits and all types of opinion should be received in the knowledge of philosophical virtue... Just because she doesn't agree with something or someone else doesn't agree with the status quo why should someone like Germaine Greer or anyone else for that matter be victimised in such a way... Germaine Greer is a feminist I'm not in love with feminists but it actually value her ability to hold unbiased dialogue in a philosophical and civilised Nana and like these Lefty f****** lunatics who want all kinds of freaky people to become or rather take over normal societies moral values

[@fredfrenchy]

What it means if your a single woman in our country the UK means that you can get all the benefits in the world not have to do any work even have more children so the tax payer are you people like me can pay for those people who have no income. I agree that all those who are father's should be made to pay a contribution to the child if there is a divorce and that if they're not paid prison should be paramount. But marriage in general was always a good thing it's only in the last 30 years or so where marriage is deteriorated into the Abyss. Btw. 45% of all women who initiate divorce have another partner in the Wings often never to be seen within the family unit so so they have a partner where they have conjugal affairs and that partner is not contributing to the single parenthood or the children which is convenient because the state picks up the bill

[@augustorvz3543]

If a woman stays childless and unmarried is better??? Some woman needs to bring up a baby alone because the father dies in a car accident when the baby is just 3 weeks old. It is not compulsory to marry and not compulsory to divorce. The life comes with risks.