Martial Artists Are The Worst Self Defense Experts • Ft. Iain Abernethy

[@MartialArtsJourney]

Life keeps turning in amazing and surprising ways. About two years ago as I started intensively questioning Aikido I was suggested to listen to a podcast by Iain Abernethy where he talks about the "Martial Map" on how martial arts, consensual fighting and self defense interrelate, yet they are also very different fields. The impact of this podcast to me was huge and it greatly helped me shape my understanding on what these three realms are and how to communicate well about it in commonly happening misunderstandings. A week ago I was filming an incredible event called "The Karate Nerd Experience" organized by Jesse Enkamp in Stockholm, where Iain was one of the instructors. At first I did not realize that it is him, until after two minutes into his presentation. Not only that, but it turns out Iain also follows my KZbin channel and knows my story quite well!! After we had a laugh about it, we decided to make sure we record a talk together. Here is one more amazing conversation which life just made it happen! Learn more about Iain Abernethy here: iainabernethy.co.uk/ Iain's KZbin channel: kzbin.info

[@taekwondomaster4609]

I really appreciate your open mind and honesty. You will go very far in your training my brother. Peace ✌️, love ❤️, and blessings from Seaside, California.

[@BrandonBenYosef]

Good to see you again ouss

[@practicalkatabunkai]

It was great talking to you Rokas! Thanks for posting this and thanks to all those who have watched. All very much appreciated. Here is the link to the “Martial Map” for all those who would like to listen to it: iainabernethy.co.uk/content/martial-map-free-audio-book

[@socalbeachieboy6135]

I just like to keep things simple. Im a judoka. But i don't go for fancy throws mostly. I stick to the basics. Simple direct, powerful, and to the point

[@happysingh2721]

Hi this was definitely a good video.!

[@GuitarsRockForever]

I like this guy. Most people don't realise self defense is NOT about "winning", but "NOT losing". You get out of dangerous situation unharmed (or the least damage possible), that's self defense.

[@izzfp9802]

Most people confuse Self-defense with fighting

[@JamesMMcCann]

@@izzfp9802 I'm having this conversation right now with my BJJ friends. I put forward that black belts (in general) are not self defence experts. From the way they're reacting you'd think I was insulting their children. I never even mentioned BJJ, they did (I also believe certain BJJ clubs are turning into cults, but that's neither here nor there).

[@TangomanX2008]

I agree, but I would also add that it is also about avoiding risky situations too.

[@JamesMMcCann]

@@TangomanX2008 my club/syllabus is based off Awareness-Avoidance-Aggression. Avoid if you can, escape if you can't avoid. Actual 'fighting' techniques should be because it's the only option left to you. Often people's ego prohibits them from avoiding. I'll avoid all day long because I know how dangerous it is to seek a violent confrontation.

[@Grodd70]

@@izzfp9802 Excellent Point. Fighting is one small aspect of self defense. Awareness, avoidance, legal aspects of self defense, life style choices etc.

[@taekwondobro]

So true, staying safe against criminals really has nothing to do with fighting. It has everything to do with avoiding the situation. Fighting is the last resort

[@Kimmo788]

You need to look so tough opponent(not easy to overcome) that criminals do not pick you among other people. Criminals like easy targets. They are like bullies in school. If criminals has guns, then it is totally different story.

[@fakecubed]

@@Kimmo788 Criminals with guns don't train with their guns, don't keep their guns in good working order, and half the time don't even have access to any ammo. The typical armed civilian easily wins most gun fights if it comes to it. They train more than cops do. Many train more than even the average soldier does. They also know well enough not to go looking for trouble so their guns don't have to leave their holsters.

[@bisonmma-kickboxing2511]

💯🙏

[@sochin7777]

Iain made karate fun again for me. I was feeling down about my karate, I wasn't young enough to be fast enough at point sparring, kata practice was great but I couldn't implement anything really. And kihon was non-functional at the level I was doing it. I got the point where I wondered if I was wasting my time with karate. I met Iain some 11-12 years ago, visited his dojo, we met a few times at seminars. He is really a breath of fresh air for karate. I now do bjj and karate at home but I will always love karate first. Thanks Iain, hope to see you at a seminar soon.

[@practicalkatabunkai]

That's great to hear!

[@gbormann71]

@Sochin : I had the same experience around 2008/9 just after getting my black belt. At the time I liked watching K1 but then came UFC and the MMA phenomenon (at least it hit mainstream on European TV)...and KZbin with the Gracie videos. Suddenly karate felt like such a waste of time. What made me reconsider it (and made me go "Yeah, whatever!" reading YT comments from the Keyboard Warrior Legions) was Lyota Machida, Iain's Bunkai book and Rory Miller's book "Meditations on Violence: A Comparison of Martial Arts & Real World Violence" from 2008 (I bought it in 2011/2012 I believe). Especially the latter book made me realise I already independently developed a certain situational awareness that is essential in recognising, avoiding and frustrating potentially dangerous situations. Some of it is tactical common sense. The insecurity of young men yelling they're Alpha males is ironic and the graveyard is full of fearless warriors 😂 Today there is an avalanche of good books of people like Iain, Jesse, Chris Denwood and Patrick McCarthy. Especially the latter's translations of the writings by the early masters give an excellent view on the cultural and social environment karate blossomed in which helps you understand why certain things are done the way they are, even though some of it may be no longer valid. But that doesn't take away the fun to do those things 😁

[@abdillahazhar1833]

@@tatumergo3931 Also check monsterprone. Cody Stuart hosts it, and he is an instructor under Hanshi Patrick McCarthy.

[@abdillahazhar1833]

@@tatumergo3931 That's an interesting story. I really enjoy these kind of "history lessons". It blows my mind knowing and understanding the journey of martial arts in other countries, especially Karate and Silat. These kind of stories, to me, are the ones that connect us as part of the citizen of the world, broadly speaking. Where are you from, if you don't mind me asking? Regarding of going back to the old ways, some people might say that, due to the fact that a lot say that the interest in getting back to the roots of Karate was sparked by the surge of interest in MMA in these times of social media. A lot of people consider MMA is more practical compared to traditional martial arts. And this sparked the motivation of martial arts masters to get back to the roots of traditional Martial Arts. Especially old Masters in the West who have studied from traditional old masters. Westerners open-mindedness attitude and curiosity is, to my opinion, give new breath of life in traditional martial arts. Researching applications of Kata, cross training, seminars with different styles and masters is what actually bring the actual tradition alive. Some also say that there's nothing wrong in doing sports martial arts, as long as you're honest with it and that's actually what you're looking for. If it's for self defense, then it's a different story. We do need a starting point. Iain Abernathy is actually quite thorough in classifying those aspects of Health, Competition, Self Defense, Hobby, etc.

[@abdillahazhar1833]

@@tatumergo3931 Wow! What a story! A Cuban-American/American-Cuban (I'm confused, Haha). Greetings from Indonesia. Your story is like the story of a Pendekar, warrior, as we say it here. Training, traveling to a distant land, finding a teacher (Guru, or Sifu) and hone your skills. I'd really like to meet you and talk and learn about anything you can throw at me. I enjoy listening to stories, and historical stories in particular from first hand experience, especially those not written. Speaking of neighborhood. I can't even imagine how life was for you in Havana. I live in Palembang, South Sumatra. There's this anecdote about Palembang people. If a Palembang citizen goes to, let's say Jakarta, and get mugged by a thug there, chances are that thug (or his boss) would befriend you if they know you're from Palembang. They'd even look after you. They even say that not many gangs from other province dare to cross a Palembangnese. Some other regions in South Sumatra are even crazier. Around March, 2018 I went with my fellow dentist on a pentayearly (is that even a word?) survey to a region near Lampung, further southeast of South Sumatra. My friends and I stayed in a Community Health Center complex where nearly ten years earlier was a war between transmigrant from Madura and the local people. They say they put those Madura people's head on a pike. And in the same complex, in the emergency room, was one of the victim who was going to be treated slaughtered on the med bed. The doctor who was in charge flew himself out of the window because he feared for his life.

[@fergcrichton8058]

The need to apply the appropriate skills to specific circumstances is essential and a long learning process in itself. Thanks for another great interview Rokas.

[@farstox4656]

Last time I was this early Steven Seagal was in shape.

[@BWater-yq3jx]

I think KZbin might not've even existed then! 😄 🤔 but actually... for real!

[@kieronhoswell2722]

Last time I was this early Ip Man was Still Ip Boy!

[@garethllewellyn215]

Come on now segal has never been in shape, he was either obese or skinny fat

[@garethllewellyn215]

He never was in shape. .he was the most unfit skinny fat weak action actor ever

[@_Mailman]

Best and most honest/logical conversation about self defense I have ever heard on youtube. Much respect to both of you.

[@MartialArtsJourney]

Thank you

[@DOOMLORDHOKAGE]

This was the best interview I’ve seen about Martial arts ever. Everyone needs to share this to EVERYONE that’s interested in martial arts and self defense

[@practicalkatabunkai]

Wow! Thank you!

[@gbormann71]

Rokas, you mentioned the Monkey Dance which suggests you read Rory Miller. For the ones who haven't done so: buy a copy!! I liked it so much I read it front to back in a couple of nightly reading sessions. It puts things in perspective without the irritating mantras of the YT comment section know-it-alls. Rory Miller, "Meditations on Violence: A Comparison of Martial Arts & Real World Violence" from 2008

[@practicalkatabunkai]

Seconded! Great book and a must read.

[@jonkeeling3137]

Read EVERYTHING Rory Miller has written and will write on the subject of self-defense. I have trained extensively with him, including his Instructor Development Course. He really knows his stuff. And much of it is NOT found in traditional martial arts training, although much of it CAN be improved through training in traditional martial arts IF (big if) the training is approached with the appropriate frame of mind.

[@basilistsakalos9643]

Absolutely!!! and of course I would throw Marc "Animal" MacYoung in the mix.

[@siliconvalleykarate8997]

@@basilistsakalos9643 Agreed. Have you been to VioDyn?

[@Dennis12869]

The best activity for self-defense: Live Action Roleplay. That is the place where you learn what to do when you are ambushed, how to run away, what to do if you have to fight multiple opponents and the best part you learn how to ambush someone else, so you get an understanding of how these people think.

[@wadoryujujutsukempo6289]

i have to agree, the best thing i learned when i was in the police force is the live role play, from the self defence point of view (even though what the police teach is not good), but the abuse is what helps in real life, even in the first aid, the live role play was helpful.

[@practicalkatabunkai]

True

[@bobbillings1958]

Role play is critical. try everything-what to do if attacked by bat/stick? get behing tree/pole, let em swing, grab bat. what to do if attacked while sitting in car? Pull attacker inside, off feet. We practiced these and others to find what actually worked.

[@javm2825]

@@scheisstag “The best activity for self-defense: Live Action Roleplay” “Dude, I am a traveller. And I did table top role playing.” “it was not at all comperable to be attacked by a group of orcs at the sofa in the dining room.” WTF Are you talking about? “Live Action Roleplay” Vs “top role playing” do you see the difference in the wording here? OK Joe you go into the change room and come back out in two minutes. Fred when Joe comes out go up to shake his hand greet him with a big smile. Pete, before Fred gets to Joe, step in his way and sorta shoulder into him, then talk smack to him, you know what ya think you’re doing, get some real anger happening Steve, sneak around the back of Joe once Pete has his attention and get him in a headlock That is what they mean by Live Action roleplaying, create a scenario where someone gets used to the variables changing, they have to deal with their mounting adrenalin, and work out how to get out the scenario.

[@scheisstag]

@@javm2825 Dude: I have a black belt in German Ju Jutsu. What you described is exactly what you do in Ju Jutsu: you get attacked by a bunch of people at the same time, you get attacked with a wooden dummy knife or a rubber pistol. You face one attacker and get a surprise from behind..... I addition to travelling I also worked as a bouncer and worked as a social worker in night shifts for drug dealers in the age group from 16 to 27 in our suburbs for four years. I got attacked with knifes and by real gangs (Raskols) several times. I have watched some people die. This two worlds: Traditional martial arts and the streets never fitted, never connected. The best preparation for a situation like this are MMA, Parcours and a deescalation training (Hand out your money and try to calm everybody down with words). This staged Live Action Roleplay (Or Whatever you call them) are dangerous at best. At least if the solution you try to train is, that you kick one guy in the nuts, disarm the second and take his gun and than threaten the third with the weapon. Realitiy does not work like that. Believe it or not. A realistic scenario is: Bob, the friend of Steve, who didnt took place in the scenario so far, killed you with a hidden knife nobody saw, in the very moment you dealt with Steves and evaded his headlock.

[@adammills9715]

Fantastic! Great points brought up not just in relation to self protection and martial arts but for discussions with people in general

[@ZenDragonYoutubeChannel]

I used to think chances of facing dangerous situations were minimum, now I feel it’s rare, but far from unlikely to happen at some point, rather the opposite (now a lot of dangerous situations don’t always escelate, especially if you’re good at communicating and reading situations, but they’re still self defense situations). In the last couple of years I experienced 2 situations, one being assaulted while seated, two someone trying to kidnap my girlfriend (the story is told in my thailand/cambodia vlog) and just a month or so ago, when playing the role of a martial artist in a miniseries, there was a girl on set who’d had to febd off a rapist and witnessed a friend getting attacked.... I think a lot of people experience something at least once or twice, Rokas experienced that situation he mentioned too. Self defense is super important my future son may or may not become a martial artist, but I will insist on passing on some self defense skills physical and non physical.

[@GeoffVanDamage]

Martial artists who don't fight are the worst self defense instructors and martial artists, as they have no idea of what works under pressure or even what pressure feels like, they only know a syllabus, as soon as you incorporate pressure testing be it sparring or competition you start getting good self defence instructors as they now know much more about what will and won't work for them, under pressure!

[@jackwilson6467]

Abernathy's application of kata videos are the best on KZbin. He gets it when it comes to pulling the practicality out of forms.

[@seanhiatt6736]

"Practicing a kata exactly is one thing, engaging in a real fight is another." Gichin Funakoshi

[@Doct0rLekter]

Funakoshi is one of the worst people to quote in this context. He believed that you couldn’t practice by engaging in a fight because, “Karate techniques are too dangerous to practice against a person”

[@G_D_R_]

@@Doct0rLekter ...AND IT'S TRUE! At a certain practice level, your arms and legs become like REAL weapons, capable of killing someone even with a single punch. Most techniques are meant to kill and they used to train with BUSHIDO philosophy, instead of the actual BUDO (hope you know the difference). During a training session, if one had to attack you and you had to defend yourself, he did it with the intent to kill you and you to save yourself. Nowadays, using Budo philosophy and not training this sort of "survival instinct" anymore (with collaborative training partners instead), karate became useless...but everyone continues to blame karate (they only know the competitive one) saying it's no use in REAL STREET FIGHTS, without understanding the reason why it DOESN'T WORK (everyone believes themselves to be experienced with a few miserable years of practice behind them, without knowing almost nothing about karate's history and philosophy).

[@darrylchandra554]

@@G_D_R_ that's why rule exist

[@G_D_R_]

@@darrylchandra554 Explain yourself better...I can't figure out what you're talking about everything I said.

[@mrg9069]

gsp and joe lewis believed in katas i guess you know more than them

[@mariuszsz5986]

Good piece of sound talk.

[@deadlypalms]

Great discussion and good to see Ian A passing on his wisdom (used to read his stuff and others within the UK scene in Combat years ago). I wonder if this distinction will also see Rokas eventually see Aikido in a better light - as it appears it was the deception or ignorance of his instructor that perhaps made a big contribution to the dissatisfaction with the art. Not the art itself. Every art has the potential to fall into this trap, including BJJ, Judo, boxing etc. Of course, some arts, such as those, DO provide more transferable skills into a SD scenario and may improve your chances.

[@RaffyAyala]

I love the first aid training vs. medical training analogy, I was thinking exactly the same thing!

[@Korroth]

Once again you hook up with another guy I’m following here. 👍👍

[@stevebb2915]

The main issue I can see, is 14 year olds having the access to technology that allows them to enter into discussion with adults (on a subject they have made their identity). The same issue just goes round in circle after circle. Bas rutten quote, followed by Bruce lee quote, followed by joe rogan quote....repeat until the internet explodes.

[@IamNorthwind]

Too true

[@miesvaillanykyisyytta3252]

For people who are serious about martial arts they are a lifestyle just like a cook's life revolves around food. Most people have different interests; they just want to know how to prepare a few healthy dishes or they want to learn first aid instead of becoming a surgeon. Technically self-defense is a concept that nobody should have a monopoly on; there is no founder of "self-defense" like there is a founder of judo. The problem comes when people with big egos try to act they have the last word on self-defense, which should be always evolving and not be constrained by the rules, priorities or preferences of any particular martial art or sport. Morihei Ueshiba knew a thing, Gracies knew a thing, karate guys and boxers etc. knew a thing but nobody has the last word on self-defense. Even the greatest physicians, for all their intelligence and knowledge, do not have the last word on healing. Most of them don't know much about various alternative therapies, nutrition, psychological intervention, social factors and what not even if they are experts in western medicine. Self-defense can be visualized as a public health issue like accident prevention, hygiene, traffic safety etc. Through meticulous study of martial arts, police and hospital records, medicine, physiology, war and conflict history etc. a curriculum for universal self-defense could be devised and updated sort of like they do in brief first aid training. Teach people essential skills that are likely to reduce injury, mortality and victimization in violent situations and emphasize quickness of learning as everyone cannot be a lifestyle fighter.

[@jeffwalters1749]

You can’t convince Rokas of your point (very nice btw) because he’s on the KZbin get paid bandwagon of clickbait titles that demoralizes instead of inspires! He’s a joke! His user name is Martial Arts Journey and yet he has the nerve to post a title “Martial artists makes the worst self defense instructors!” He’s just another punk in this age of entitlement instead of gratitude who gets off on clickbait! Real men who wrote books before there was the internet titled their books with “How to .....!” not “How to not...,!” It’s the difference between a whiny asshole and a man!

[@danj7123]

Love this. I've been confused about this for years and you guys explain it so well. Used to do traditional ju jitsu for a few years and yet somehow never felt any safer in the real world. You're right, a few simple techniques well trained are much more effective when under pressure. The first aid example is an excellent one. It does not have to take years of training to be competent in self defence, which is quite a weight lifted for the average person.

[@ZenDragonYoutubeChannel]

I fully agree with this line of thinking, that’s why I’ve got a self defense playlist, where it’s primarily about concepts and simple adjustable techniques. I care about fighting vesus martial artists as well, where stuff like feints and setting up future combos matter, as well as the ART aspect of martial art, spinning staffs and taolu etc.... at the same time there’s some overlapping skills/experiences in all 3, but knowing the difference of context is key.

[@ZenDragonYoutubeChannel]

One thing though, I do think you need to train the self defense aspect more than every third year to stay sharp

[@StevenAbney]

Great interview, Rokas. The spirit that both you and Mr. Abnernethy bring to a discussion that so often gets nasty on the internet is inspiring. Keep up the important work you’re doing!

[@inomad1313]

My first “martial arts” instructor taught me two things that I’ve always remembered. 1) Progression of a fight: Him: How do you fight someone? Me: Always walk away. Him: How? Me: Always. Walk away. Him: How? Me: Always. Walk. Away. Him: If someone tries to hurt you? Me: Hurt them and walk away. Him: If they come at you again? Me: Maim them. Then walk away. Him: If they come at you again? Me: Kill them. Then walk away. Me: Always walk away. This is how we started every session. 2) Never use your martial arts unless you have to defend yourself. No showing off. No starting the fight. You have nothing to prove to anyone. When you understand that the moment you start using your martial arts someone could die, you find any other way out of the situation. . . . I was 4 and he had to explain to me what “maim” meant.

[@rockmcdwayne1710]

''If you understand that someone could die when you start using martial arts.'' Its that point you should reallise you are not good at martial arts. You always have a choice to hurt or not to hurt your opponent. Essence of martial artist is to have controll over it.

[@inomad1313]

Anonymus Alcoholic You did read the whole comment, right?

[@rockmcdwayne1710]

@@inomad1313 I did and my point still stands. Being a good martial artist means you have controll over hurting/maiming your opponent or not doing it. Its much more dangerous when someone who thinks they know martial arts, trying to pull off something crazy and then things going horribly wrong.

[@inomad1313]

Anonymus Alcoholic In the quote you posted it says “could”. I could have used any of a number of other words, but I didn’t. It doesn’t matter how good you are at martial arts, the moment you engage in a physical altercation, someone could die. If you think it’s not possible, then perhaps you do not understand life. Examples: A trip or take down is a relatively harmless maneuver. But, if that person falls and hits their head or turned their neck wrong, they could die. A strike to the head may miss slightly because of their reaction and hit the throat. And they die.

[@rockmcdwayne1710]

@@inomad1313 It is not just you who says stuff like that. Ive heard it many times before. Often it goes beyond what you said. ''My martial art is so dangerous that i cant show it to you or it cant be used in competition.'' In the end bad shit can happen to anyone. Take for instance an altercation between 2 people infront of a bar who happen to be drunk. One pushes the other. They trip and fall and hit their head to the pavement and die. Nothing to do with martial arts in that case. I would expect martial artist to be in controll what they are doing and this kind of situation would be highly unlikely.

[@themasterofegal]

Wow awesome interview! Thank you so much, I learned a lot, already a big fan of iain und now of you too

[@practicalkatabunkai]

Thank you!

[@NYKgjl10]

I was in one of iain Abernethy's bunkai workshop here in the States and he is legit and very mindful with his skills. As a Karate (Kyokushin) and boxer practitioner, his classes are valuable for anyone to attend to regardless of art you may practice. Excellent interview.

[@MarcusArmstrong037]

A couple minutes in when he explains the martial map as a Venn diagram with three circles (Martial Arts, Combat Sports, Self Defense), I looked at my notebook in which I had drawn that very same diagram. Good to know I am on the right track with this idea. Going further, this diagram actually makes seven areas (boxes). The three single categories, three which overlap two categories, and one that overlaps all three categories. My idea is to examine my art and my knowledge and place each piece in the boxes. The idea is then to build the fundamental structure of my training around the things that fall in all three.

[@DoYouKnowYourJudoWell]

Do you compete? Some systems are just self defense and art in which case a basic two circle Venn diagram is all that's needed. Still, the simplicity of this breakdown is interesting. From your analysis, I wonder which techniques will emerge as relevant in all areas?

[@jackwilson5364]

One of the few guys I have seen out here that really gets the applications of kata. Enjoy his material on youtube a lot.

[@gingercore69]

Fun fact, up until now... The only martial art ive practiced that actually made us practice talking our way out, running away, and being aware of our surroundings during conflicts(not out of conflict tho... Wich would have been useful too) was soo bahk do... They taught us a special "fighting stance" that doesnt look like a fighting stance... And then gave us phrases that we could use in different scenarios... For example... If the person is asking for something in particular(money, cellphone, etc) give it... If they are saying they are going to hurt you, say things like, "im sorry, didnt mean to do x" (x being whatever the reason he wants to hurt you) or "hey, i dont wanna fight... There is no reason to fight" or if the person seems to feel he has to fight to proof himself, saying something like "you win, i dont want to fight you" then, depending on other situations... You may even have to use intimidation to make them back down... But thats a risky one... And one of my favorite ways is to confuse the person... For example... Someones says "im gona break your skull" (a very common threat in argentina) and i answer in an angry voice "oh really? Well then im gonna tickle your feet!" and then blow a kiss to them and start dancing like michael jackson while singing happy birthday... Ive only used that one a few times but it usually works quite well... Only works with guys who are looking for a fight to proove themself in front of a friend or a girl or whatever... Because if you look like you are not going to fight back and probably hsve mental problems they wouldnt win any reputation for beating you...

[@FedericoMalagutti]

Man this interview is beautiful! Thank you for sharing it! Even if I never practiced Karate I hope to have the chance one day to get to the KNX, as a Martial Artist I think that this kind of event is simply beautiful and I suppose in some ways unique. Jesse made a great job. Keep up the good work Rokas and many thanks, again.

[@grayalun]

Violence is so chaotic and so there's no set routine that is guaranteed to work which is where a lot of TMA's can fall down as a real fight is never choreographed and there are so many variables, that's not to say a lot of the skills learned training won't help us you'd hope the various things we do improve our balance, speed, distancing, endurance and so on. I like that guys like Iain Abernethy and Peter Consterdine are very clear on the difference between sparring and self defence scenarios as the two are so different.

[@Grindgodgrind]

Class interview, Rojas. Iain is a class act, I always look forward to training at his seminars.

[@markusbischoff3044]

Thank you very much for putting out that video. Just watching it gives me real peace of mind and an idea how to further go on in my own martial journey

[@HelenPrimoRoseanneInYourArea]

I’ve been training in karate and Muay Thai for over 15 years and also competing in kickboxing almost as long and this subject always hits a sore spot for me. I was violently attacked within an inch of my life twice, both times I was outnumbered 5 to 1 and 8 to 1. I’m 5ft tall and 45kg and was alone. All my year’s training and competing as a martial artist and fighter meant nothing when I was ambushed and held down by multiple people whilst getting my skull soccer kicked and stamped on. There are are some situations you have no chance in no matter how amazing you are in the ring or how many years of your life you’ve committed to the sport. 1 on 1 or even 2 on 1 you stand a stand but to be outnumbered as greatly as I was and to be pinned down but more then 4 people - nothing can train or prepare you. This is why I don’t agree with people taking up martial arts and combat sports purely for self defence. Thank god most of you will never be attacked at random like I was let alone attacked at random twice - train for fun, train for fitness and to challenge yourself, compete and to meet like minded individuals. However, if your one and only reason for taking up martial arts is self defence, maybe give it a re think.

[@alLEDP]

Subtly describing the Master Wong - Ramsey Dewey Beef! lol

[@ranchlife8128]

There is no beef. Ramsey just points out Wong's ignorance on technique and dangerous teachings. Make no mistake, Ramsey would end Wong in seconds.

[@alLEDP]

@@ranchlife8128 I don't like dick measurring contests... it's funny and entertaining but I don't have the needed background to make an educated guess on this subject.

[@ranchlife8128]

@@alLEDP Not sure what all that means but ok...lol.

[@alLEDP]

@@ranchlife8128 Then it is like that. Comparing a Master Wong to Ramsey Dewey is like comparing a clown with a artisan.

[@ranchlife8128]

@@alLEDP Still don't know what your getting at but you said originally they had a beef which I pointed out they don't. I further inferred Ramsey was the real deal while Wong is not just in case you didn't know. Pretty simple.

[@MrFabiomassid]

GReat interview and usual great distinctions from Iain. Iain:" I'm proud some of my students were able to defend themselves with what I taught them". (Rokas' head rotating uncontrollably :D

[@basilistsakalos9643]

Concerning Self Defense/Close Quarter Combat I would suggest anything that has to do with: 1) Fairbairn's WW2 Combatives' method 2) Applegate's Defendu 1) Marc "Animal" McYoung 2) Rory Miller One should be able to have a basic skill of defending oneself in 2-3 months, definitely not 40 years...

[@freddiepiras391]

Are these books? Can they be bought on Amazon?

[@basilistsakalos9643]

@@freddiepiras391 Methods, Books, Videos, people. Yes!

[@freddiepiras391]

@@basilistsakalos9643 thank you so much for replying so quickly. I will buy them on Amazon

[@ricksterdrummer2170]

If you think you’ll be able to defend yourself against someone who knows how to fight in just 2-3 months then you’re being tricked, son...

[@hellcla5]

This was an amazing conversation, his answer to the kyokushin guy was great, you didn't get a scratch perfect textbook self defence

[@DanielSmith-pq4yc]

I trained kickboxing for several years and the number one thing that was repeated to us. 99% of fights can be avoided and they definitely should be.

[@rubenrelvamoniz]

As a tradicional martial artist im super glad for your endeavours and happy you spoke to people from my art.you are a great man rokas

[@MartialArtsJourney]

Thank you

[@Jenjak]

OH YEAH ! So cool to see Iain Abernethy here !!!

[@practicalkatabunkai]

It's fun to be here!

[@basilistsakalos9643]

11:00 what he describes is Rickson's and JJGF approach of Gracie JJ. First self defense core skills and then advance from there. IBJJF 's approach is mostly a sports' approach.

[@davidwilliams4837]

One can glean value from every martial discipline. It is up for us to understand the "intent" [as most teachers do not] and application. Usually, it is the "idea" which bears the most fruit. Movement is a result of intention; not the other way around. We tend to train backwards.

[@dennisaalbers8851]

True, self defence is about defending yourself while you don’t want it. And the only rule is. Get out safe. Martial arts sparring is fighting with restrictions to mimick a real fight scene. Total different mindset

[@ulfhazelcreek8108]

Brilliant conversation. Thank you.

[@GipfeldesArreat]

First lesson of self defense should be: 1. Paying attention 2. Perceiving the enviroment 3. Being a living coward is more valueable than being a dead hero These points should be clear before working on any technical stuff =D

[@michaelspyrou1784]

fully agree. trying to persuade a martial artist about this is like trying to win a discussion with a Cyprus Public officer!

[@TheFlipp4]

I have used my Kenpo Karate in three street fights and won all three in less than 9 seconds each. In an attempt on my life with a watermelon knife heading toward my stomach without thinking, my brain and body took over so fast I could not keep up with my hands and body pulling back into a cat stance where I pulled my left arm and closed fist up and over my heart while at the same instant stabbing a Cobra strike to the attackers eyes. In less than 3 seconds, I was holding the attackers left eye in my right hand and he was on the ground screaming while his two partners moved away from me. The other times were in bars where my training to be a gray man, looking from side to side, knowing where the exits are, always sit with your back to a wall saved me from these clowns throwing sucker punches at me but caused them a lot of pain. Burse Lee said I DON"T HIT, THESE HIT.

[@jabaritate790]

I am a firm believer in the way you train is the way you fight. If you train for combat sports that's what you will be good at. I also believe that martial arts encompasses health, sport, and self defense which is what makes it an art form. Alot of the fault is placed on the instructor, what he teaches and the intensity of it. One of my head instructors was a war veteran and the other had many actual street gang fights. The intensity was life or death when free sparring or training self defense and we didnt just train for tournaments, we trained to use the techniques for their intended purpose defense of self and Martial=War + Art= Expression= warfare arts.

[@BODYBAGxPAT]

I realized I was avoiding staying out of dangerous places just by training. By boxing from 5-9 Monday-thursday, that's 16 hours out if the week I'm not going to be hanging around any stupid people

[@danielude3225]

Its amazing, how you two can relate to each other. I think that it is not important what kind of martial art you do. it's important how you train and what kind of purpose you have. maybe it sounds ridiculous but i learned much more about my aikido by practicing karate in the way of iain abernethy and christian wedewardt (german karate-teacher). I really love Aikido now, because i see it as a martial-art and not as a self-defense.

[@bofetada6841]

Some excellent and beautiful points here I am no instructor not close I tried boxing. Krav maga y attack proof. When people ask, to teach them what I know we start by running then Sprints up stairs after running. They ask when do we learn self defence. This is it run. Run not only fast but with battery acid pumping through your blood and more than likely with at feeling deep Inside you, that's when the fight begins. Can you continue protecting yourself feeling this way.

[@swifty8538]

I've always told my students if you have to use martial arts everything else you've done is wrong you can choose to go down a dark alley at night because its shorter than going the safer but longer way home

[@billgober2]

This guy has the right idea. Self Defense is about everything he is saying. I think the point though is that many people come to a dojo for is the self defense for when they can't run away. Run away makes sense when you actually can. Some people can't run fast it's a fact. So for people who can't you need those techniques that either escape, or make space, or neutralize advancement. He has it right about what's appropriate for the situation.

[@IamNorthwind]

Love the circles concept, though I feel there’s more than 3. All related, but quite different. It’s hard AF to get this across to most people.

[@calebfuller4713]

The 3 boxes are interesting. I had my own three that broke martial arts into "civilian self-defence", "military" and "sports". Plenty about civilian self-defense in this video, whereas military arts are often about killing or neutralizing an opponent as quickly as possible, and sports are about winning a competition according to a rule-set. I guess we could add 2 more boxes - the historical art done to preserve the traditional aspect, and the fitness box, where it's about health, well-being, weight loss, flexibility and so on.

[@blaa443blaa2]

like what's the problem with having several martial arts as a hobby, changing them as you feel nice, and practising self defence at the same time. You can also see self defence as a martial art. You have areas of self defence which you can defelope : your evasion abilities, your blocks, reflexes, habits to upocoming attacks, groundwork, grappling, escaping from locks, etc etc ... You can stll consider yourself as a martial artist, just one with the focus on self defence.

[@colsan8984]

Wow! That was an experience I did not expect. We can always find something new of course. To much running through my mind for a long winded text here. A seemingly lovely and sensitive young woman. I can both relate and sympathise with her experience. But also I can agree & disagree with many or few of the comments or points made by both parties involved. But yes I watched & listened and thank Mari for thanking everyone that watched this. Just quickly I have trained on & off at "Dojo" since the late 60's when I was ten years old. All there was then in Australia at least was Judo & Karate and the same human effects that are involved now. I am now in my early 60's. The Martial Arts. Not Combat SPORTS. Have been a staple in my life. Actually they have been my life. In my mind there is no separation between them. Thanks again.

[@luqqe90]

gracias a ambos ! muy buena charla !

[@vault334]

What he said about, what you do for so long becomes a part of you and for someone says something bad about it you feel it. I remember this feeling when transitioning from TMA to MMA. But I see now it's just like he said again, if something's not serving me I drop it, let it go.

[@bunnyofdoom4501]

4:00 and after mark. Well said, dude in the white saying that there are 3 related things that are similar but different.

[@vault334]

I really love this video. I love hearing this man talk about it.

[@kidfisch]

Superb talk!

[@wagutoxD]

Very nice talk! There's light in the end of the tunnel! Tks, Rokas and Iain!

[@krait44]

Great discussion! I loved the video Lain did with Jesse.

[@JuanAMota-pu5zx]

Hi, Karate guy here. I agree with Sensei Iain, and I would include healthcare also in the possible self defense threat spectrum, because it doesn't worth worrying about possible assailants even when your own cells rebel against you thanks to bad diet, horrible sleep and poor stress control. Demand than your local politicians are taking the best measures against crime and terrorism, vote for the best candidate on this topic, send letters to your city mayor expressing your concern. Read your Constitution and your laws! Because fights will always be ended by the Police (if you are still alive/conscious) and from there is a loooong time going to court my friend. And finally, but not less important: Learn about Non Violent Communication (Marshall Rosenberg), Verbal Judo...There´s a whole course about this last one here on YT. The priority is to go home alive and ok with your family, be safe guys/girls!

[@tonyfolin3589]

What do you think about modern jutsu system claiming to be made for self defense, like the Swedish system ju jutsu kai?

[@cpt.ahab_it7044]

Self defense...be aware, be polite, and don't hold back if shit goes down.

[@AstralS7orm]

Holding back is a valid and very useful tactic. (Counter-ambush is the technical term.)

[@atillathahunk]

I think most people want to have self-offense instead of self-defense in their minds when dealing with someone on the street. They want to stand their ground and end the altercation on their terms instead of running away.

[@grayalun]

Great advice on the finding an art you enjoy, so many people force themselves to train something they hate and let's be honest if you aren't enjoying something then you're unlikely to stick at it and become proficient at it. And the more you train the fitter and stronger you'll get and like Iain says if you then do the self defence side as well then you are in a more practical place. We do one step sparring too it's awful our instructor hates it too but it's part of the curriculum so we do it occasionally just to not forget it but I agree it's not useful.

[@steveholland6982]

What good interview this man is true martial artist.

[@grumpyoldwizard]

Bruce Lee said it best. “Boards don’t hit back”.

[@BWater-yq3jx]

Not by the time he's done with them they don't, no... 😁

[@ninjascoob]

But he was happy to break boards in demonstrations 🤦‍♂️🤷‍♂️

[@BWater-yq3jx]

@@ninjascoob To be fair, I don't know if Bruce said this other than that time in Enter the Dragon. Which was definitely called for... I mean what kinda douche brings a board to break just before you fight! 🙄

[@professorchaos8407]

I don't understand what that has to do with self defense. It's a totally different thing that takes strength and concentration, of course dumbass boards don't hit back, if you want to hit some thing that hits back hit a person duh

[@G_D_R_]

A real martial artist doesn't hit another person just to show is own strength and technique...it's one of the most dishonourable purposes for REAL martial arts. Why hurt someone, when you can break something!?

[@alan2a1l]

Good stuff. “De-escalation”, though, only works for anti-social encounters, not asocial violence. One is drunk-at-a-bar testosterone; the other is a cold-blooded murderer. Not consensual. But Iain does say this, in there. I guess it just depends where you draw the lines between self-defense & fighting. To me, self-defense is where it’s not about conversation. A sociopath out to kill you, not someone in a bad mood.

[@Dragonflyjones67]

It depends on the *EGO*. Most of these instructor's make it seem like they know what they are talking about? And what they do will work in real life. 9 time's out of 10 they are full of crap. Unless it is battle tested? Alright! But if it's just for show and you think it's realistic? Stop teaching! I make sure when I teach or do a teachnique that what I teach is base on real life application.

[@fenris042]

Ians explanation of One step sparring Ippon Kumite is SO true.

[@blugetsbusy4508]

I always taught in martial arts or karate to avoid rather than fight. Only use it if you have to as a last resort so I don’t think everybody is always taught that aspect of I have to win or always fight but I understand

[@jvela80]

Awesome interview Rokas

[@AZTigerMMA]

As a jiujitsu ( bjj guy) I’m suggesting to supplement your muay Thai you try Krav Maga ( alliance ), and dirty boxing pannantucan Daniel Sullivan

[@fenris042]

Great video. I do teach martial arts as well . but I clearly understand the difference between self defense. in the past I did short term training for people for say 3-6 mo. or more and learn just self defense. To Run away, awareness, assessment and application of what to do, mostly where to run and the exits are. De escalation etc. Its a whole different ball park than martial arts. I believe many Martial Arts teachers simply are carbon copies of there teachers, meaning they never learned more or outgrew and made the arts work for themselves. I strongly encourage my students to learn and train in all aspect of arts they can in their lives. Enjoy both your vids young man. Ian your too close in my age to call young man anymore but surely a respectable man.

[@wmgthilgen]

My first instuctor use to state to any and all who were interested in taking his class, that he taught one what to do after they turned the other cheek. I dabbled in Judo, Karate and eventually settled on Aikido; Which I stayed with for the next 30 years. I belong to a small group of about 50 seniors who meet about 5 nights a week and practice realistic real speed techniques and have incorporated canes recently.

[@RicoMnc]

It takes a while to establish realistic goals and expectations. Then discipline and follow-through are essential. It is possible to acquire fundamental, useful self defense skills in 6 months for the typical regular Joe civilian. It will be better than nothing, and provide a bit of reality check about your physical shape and capabilities. It may sound counter intuitive, but the more I train the more I am diligent to avoid any violent physical altercations outside of training. Awareness and avoidance are important. What keeps me training is I am still a bit mesmerized by the martial arts world and obsessed with learning more.

[@TheMeditatingRaven]

I am a fan of Ian Abernathy’s work because his mindset and approach, along with a few other karateka, is what is needed to get Karate out of its shock in response to MMA. Heck, it is the approach all TMA is to take in response to MMA. Know your skills, test them at your skill, drill them, and hope you never have to use them in a violent confrontation. Much of the matter comes down putting blood, sweat, and tears into your training by doing it live to make it a reflex response under stress. If you have never drilled that skill into your muscle memory through live sparring, you are in for a rude awakening when your well being counts on it. This is admittedly why I am frugal about my martial arts subscriptions. I am wanting to get into martial arts, but I have to be wary about those who are bullcrapping everything they say. Ian Abernathy knows what he talks about, Sergio of Practical Combat Martial Arts does, Sakan Lam, Randy Brown of Mantis Boxing, and a myriad of others. However, so long as mountebanks like Jake Mace and Master Wong do the representing, the stigma of TMA will continue for decades to come.

[@mattbrown4857]

I happened have commented on one of your early videos about seeing Iain. Many people have struggled with the same or similar issues you did, on some level or another. Good video. 👍

[@MartialArtsJourney]

👊

[@davidhoward228]

I took self-defense for two years. I was a black belt in karate. A black belt in my dojo got beat up when I was 16. I am also a black belt in big jitsu and beat my instructor. I was not concerned. Right after completing two years of self defense training, I beat up a guy who pulled a knife on me (slap kick to the groin). Self-defense is armor piercing to the bullet of martial arts.

[@TheSeremen]

I think it was Funakoshi who said "You win every fight you you don't get into" or something along those lines. I also think he was the one who said "A man who never uses his karate understands the true meaning of karate" or something along those lines. (been a while since I read Karate-Do my Way of Life)

[@guytakamatsu7326]

If I remember correctly one aikido student who quoted Saotome Sensei as saying self defense is a small part of aikido.

[@1.2.3-i8c]

Very instructive analysis, thank you both. I didn't know about Iain Abernethy , he is as a great person as you are Rokas! thank you again!

[@MartialArtsJourney]

Thank you 🙏

[@djinbleu]

A Martial Art is a way of life, routine, how to carry yourself and has as much to do with ethics as learning moves. Not getting beaten up or killed in a fight is abit switching consciousness between calm and explosive. Bruce Lee began his journey into Martial Arts mainly because he wished to learn what worked in a real fight, not in a tournament. Control your consciousness and you control the fight.

[@chrisgoshey7388]

Mas Ayoub, a noted handgun self defense expert, always carries a bundle of $1 bills covered by a $20 bill. If attacked he first plans to toss that at the bad guy and run off. Why? He would rather pay an attacker $25 to go away than deal with the potential consequences of using the gun he carries. If the guy escalates from there is the point when you go to the fight.

[@vault334]

33:40 I'm at the same point I just want to be certified in something, iv been piddling around for a long time. It dosnt matter what kinds of skill I have I have no proof, iv put no work into anything but myself. I havnt helped anyone 🤷😥

[@MarcusModulus]

For people simple wishing to learn self defense for a casual physical encounter (as opposed to a fight to the death), martial arts (particularly ones with pressure testing and effective techniques) can actually be quite useful. Let's not assume everyone who is interested in self defense is looking to protect themselves from a criminal intent on ending their life by any means necessary. I think it's may actually be more common that clients interested in "self defense" simply want to have the confidence to be able to stand up to a schoolyard bully, ward off harassment of themselves and their loved ones, and feel safe walking on the street. That's not to say being safe from murderous criminals isn't something that matters to people, but I think that most people rightly understand they aren't going to get that from a martial arts studio.

[@billygraham5589]

I can see self defense as the most important skill to develop. No sane person goes into a fight with anyone, and where do you draw the line in “fight?” I have learned several moves that are useful, and invented a few of my own. And I think the key is to find a guy or two that are also sane and can help you spar for those moves. Good if they throw a few surprises your way too, to keep you on your toes. And to give you a chance to think over such a surprise move and so you can figure out the way to deal with that surprise.

[@rollopolloboymarch1074]

I was gonna tell you to interview Dan the Wolfman. But it looks like you already did. You really are on a Martial Arts Journey. This is why I resubbed.

[@MartialArtsJourney]

Thanks. Glad to hear it!

[@rollopolloboymarch1074]

@@MartialArtsJourney I hope you do interviews with IceMike of Hard2Hurt and Sergio Perez from Practical Combat soon.

[@jomess7879]

im stealing the justification vs explanation thing. that is profound

[@practicalkatabunkai]

Me too! I really liked that distinction.

[@jomess7879]

@@practicalkatabunkai I've always just used bad and good explanations, but this is way clearer

[@michaelspyrou1784]

agree with all except the use of 3 step sparring as i think to an expert user is one point knock out drill.excellent video; as usual of course.

[@basiccodingwithadam8125]

A great positive explanation.

[@alanduffy2931]

Someone once said to me, if you can walk away at peace with yourself that's all that matters

[@JamesMMcCann]

Great interview guys.

[@mattjack3983]

What he said was spot on correct, and I am inclined to believe him. If u are going out and being attacked on a regular basis there is something wrong with you. Because that simply doesn't happen at all to the average responsible adult. If that's what's ha lifppening then u need take a good hard look at your lifestyle choices and the people who unsurround yourself with and call friends.