Old School Judo vs Modern Judo

[@MartialArtsJourney]

Learn more about Shintaro Higashi on his website: shintarohigashi.com/ or KZbin channel kzbin.info/door/70qwffU7qQvTVm26wziD8A or his Instagram account instagram.com/judoshintaronyc/ You can also check out Shintaro's instructionals here: bjjfanatics.com/collections/shintaro-higashi By the way, this is the first time I am trying out a custom drawn thumbnail for the video. Let me know what you think! And I hope you are enjoying the video. Keep owning your journey!

[@1138-f6t]

Was gonna research Ronda Rousey's judo content but this works brilliantly as well. Thanks for posting!

[@emmanuelawosusi3276]

nice

[@ΓραικοςΕλληνας]

What shintaro said for bjj we have it allready in kato pangration . Points for throws and only submission... I was a ref in the greek nationals you cant pull guard , cant sit down .

[@rexhamilton6381]

You can tell Shintaro loves judo but is not a blind zealot. He will point out weaknesses and state which other martial art may address something better.

[@prandz420]

Unlike aikido practitioners

[@JadedDragon662]

@@prandz420 unlike purists of any style*

[@JadedDragon662]

Objectivity is one of the most important skills to learn for martial artists. Your shit has to do what you intend it to, or you have to tweak it until it does or look for something that does it better.

[@jopalo31675]

Shintaro is the son of a Japanese master. His father is a high ranked Judoka, Karateka and Japanese jujitsu master. Shintaro grew up in all 3 arts. He wrestled in college, boxed and is a purple belt in BJJ. So, he has to be honest.

[@qweqwe1324]

@@jopalo31675 Ty for the info

[@Fitz2393]

Ellis Amdur had a story from someone who did some randori with Mifune in his later years. He said that in the first 30 seconds he was the most frightening thing even, but if you could last through that 30 seconds you stood a chance against him. His skills was still there but his ability to do sustained power had dissolved with age.

[@milty66]

Amdur Sensei's kiai is simple terrifying, but a very nice man to meet.

[@basilistsakalos9643]

@@milty66 indeed

[@jwgoon]

@@milty66 His books on psychology and de-escalation of violence are absolutely superb to read

[@Hekkler72]

My coach was in Japan with Ben Campbell in the late 40's and did randori with Mifune. My coach was 5'4 and 240lbs. Mifune spanked him up one side of the mat and down the other. I'd have paid to watch him get smoked.

[@xsystem1]

old school taekwondo and now I found out about old school judo..just wow, thanks for everyone sharing rare footages

[@daniel-zh9nj6yn6y]

There are a few old Judo/Ju Jutsu books in English that are in the public domain.

[@heisenberg4977]

Fortunately, Taekwondo ITF still rock 🔥💪🏻🥋

[@joonasvakkilainen2457]

What Mifune demonstrates is how you can block the opponent’s attack by going to the same direction he is trying to throw you. It does not require muscles, only right timing and direction. This is what modern judokas often forget. Defending by directions also enables great counter attacks. I know a judoka (a former olympic athlete actually) who has mastered this style and sparring with him is pretty amazing.

[@Eternaprimavera73]

My opinion. Judo was created not as the art of throwing. Throwing is the part of the all which can be used in safety, or this is what they thought. Judo is how to better employ energy, and this is done in an upright posture, which engage less muscles which can be used to stop whichever action, also striking, from the opponent, and to use whichever action. So to do Mifune s judo means that you have to remove from your own judo equation the usage of too much muscles and the idea of struggling. To use muscles and struggling is nowadays modern judo, which is not a self defense idea, but a grappling fighting with rules which excludes some of the points of the judo. In modern judo this is important. In self defense and better employ of energy is not. So you cannot compare modern randori with Mifune s randori. That was meant to get universal fighting skills, and not just grappling throws. Martial arts for sport and safety rules have evolved, as said in the video, so that BJJ is only ground fighting Judo is almost only standing grappling Aikido today is only an unlikely joint locking. If you combine the above today, you don t get an evolution of the old jujutsu where the evolution of the new combination is functional. The specialization has come out from removing other aspects, so to go back from the new versions is impossible. The old JJ was less specialized but into it, all the derivate aspects were grown together, so they were already combined in the right proportions under the pressure of a real self defense. What is valid to judo throwing today, was and wouldn t be valid in a self defense fight. So you should give up to all the requisites that today make a judo throw valid in a judo tournament context. Same thing for BJJ and aikido. THis thing exists? yes, it is the old jujutsu which has been changed just for marketing, sport rules and specializations. TO be good in a single aspects which doesn t put in account the real self defense is exactly what prevents from being holistic well arounded old style jujutsu

[@joonasvakkilainen2457]

@@Eternaprimavera73 Better use of energy is by no means in contradiction with modern judo. That's because human body is still the same as it was a hundred years ago. The judoka I mentioned in my first comment uses this all the time, and despite being not a very large guy, people usually struggle to throw him, because he uses the right directions. If he used pure muscles, he would lose. His students have also been very satisfied with his instructions and said that competing has become much less energy-consuming because of that and they've found opportunities to throw more easily. I've also taught to my child students to going to the same, not the opposite direction of the opponent, and I've seen how bigger children have been amazed when they've been sure they could easily throw a smaller one but the smaller one has just stood their ground. In this way it is possible to find the right time to throw your opponent in a way that the throw feels just like air for both parties, and it is such a rewarding feeling when that happens.

[@Eternaprimavera73]

@@joonasvakkilainen2457 unfortuantely even if Kano disagreed with the judo pure muscled direction, the message passed dawn is the muscled poor one. That is why I was speaking about randori. Randori is not throwing dawn at all costs. Randori is a study about balance, posture, not opposing force against force... They can throw as they like, but the point of judo is throwing effortless. There is no push pull in Mifune s judo, because judo is not push pull with the arms, but just by shifting axis and balance. It is easier to use muscles, but the quality attained is lower, and by definition, no judo.

[@joonasvakkilainen2457]

@@Eternaprimavera73 I fully agree and that is actually what I meant and what I was trying to describe. I didn't say that Mifune uses push-pull but that he moves to the same direction - or actually somewhat diagonally - to the same direction as his opponent is going, not resisting with muscles. This kind of movement results in effortless throws, and it is what I have been trying to learn and teach.

[@Eternaprimavera73]

@@joonasvakkilainen2457 keep doing it. Otherwise Judo is lost. Your name is nordic. As far as I know there are many good people in japanese martial arts.

[@cassiooctaviani473]

I love how honest Shintaro is about Kyuzo Mifune (and everything else). Great, no-BS guy!

[@nathanieltillman2355]

Shintaro higashi explains the nuances really well, as someone who is getting into both Judo and Wrestling understanding the differences of competition variations actually makes both sports much more interesting. Thanks for this really appreciated.

[@robertnewell4054]

As someone who started AAU Wrestling at 9y.o. in 1972, I could not even mention how many rules sets Wrestling’s gone through. And Rule Sets trickle down all the way

[@TheMule71]

About Mifune's footage. It's neither cooperative nor a demonstration. It's a specific type of challenge. It's a "only pure technique allowed" fight. Which of course levels the field out, but also makes perfect sense, since those "younger" guys were like 7+ dan black belts, not Olympic judokas. The goal is a better understanding of the technique. There's no doubt some of them were much stronger than Mifune. But in the context of the test/challenge for one of them to try hard, try to muscle his way thru a throw rather than just displaty full mastery of the technique would have been a defeat. All Mifune did was to keep some sort of balance and make it impossible to be thrown with a crystal clean technique. Of course many times all tori had to do was turn it into some kind of makikomi, but that would mean a less than perfect execution. So the point wasn't to throw someone, was to throw someone _effortlessly_.

[@bojangles7842]

Great video! If you're interested in learning more about various Judo competition rules, you might consider looking up "Free Style Judo," which isn't very popular from what I understand, but it represents a kind of reaction to a lot of the rule changes.

[@AnGhaeilge]

There's a guy on youtube called Samson Samson who has a club in the UK who teaches and has his guys compete in these rules.

[@kevingonzalez3673]

I used to wrestle. Then I took old style judo. Because of my wrestling, I was able to hang with dudes who had judo years of judo experience. I did get tossed or manhandled at times, but I was also able to utilize better trips, takedowns and even hip throws. The big difference was wearing a Gi. I will admit that judo was more fun and less of a grind than wrestling.

[@bombastikderteutone6858]

you were able to utilize better trips than judokas?

[@joeboonmusic4004]

Sounds more reflective of bad judoka than your skill…

[@kevingonzalez3673]

@@joeboonmusic4004 why are u bad at judo

[@joeboonmusic4004]

@@kevingonzalez3673 I just mean wrestling with a judoka makes sense, but the idea that your trips and hip throws (something synonymous with judo) were superior says more about the judoka you were sparring with…

[@kevingonzalez3673]

@@joeboonmusic4004 so true so true

[@tettsubushi]

Mifune’s students are not trying to beat him up… they are honoring him. To be able to perform with such a master is the ultimate learning experience. What a treasure to have been able to capture that on film. That is a piece of martial history that will be preserved for and eternity 🙏🙏

[@basilistsakalos9643]

Helio is not rolling with "someone". He is rolling with his legend son, Rickson man... Good interview!

[@ricardokerscher]

"rolling"...

[@kennethcurtis1856]

... and in his day Rolls Gracie was even better than Rickson.

[@camiloiribarren1450]

Knowing and comparing the old school techniques with the modern ones shows how it has changed and it does help to incorporate old techniques that are banned in today’s competition because it may come in handy on a self-defense situation

[@bombastikderteutone6858]

how?

[@jhschuster]

Loving this colab with Shintaro. Really broadens your perspective on what judo is as a complete system

[@Qunyc1985]

Judo is not a complete system. Wow.

[@bombastikderteutone6858]

@@Qunyc1985 it is

[@harleypoppitypop3817]

I grew up competing in wrestling and judo in the 80’s and 90’s. My dad competed in wrestling and judo in the 60’s and 70’s. It has always seemed weird to me that the IJF had zero problems with wrestlers being judoka for decades but once BJJ started making waves they bent the knee to the IOC.

[@robl1616]

we competed same years, Canada or USA? my dad competed 50s until early 70s in Montreal

[@harleypoppitypop3817]

@@robl1616 USA, I competed all around SoCal growing up but as a young adult I was all over the place.

[@niledunn4641]

Awesome video and to get shintaro who is a very open minded judoka give his opinion on both is pretty cool

[@Krystalmyth]

The Olympics ruins everything it touches. Best thing that can happen to a martial art is its removal from the program.

[@tandendo]

it was very interesting explanation. thanks that is why kendo refused to become olympic sports

[@Goryus]

Hi Rokas, thought you would like know - my 1st baby was just born. And by coincidence, I was wearing your "Martial Arts Journey" t-shirt when she arrived!

[@MartialArtsJourney]

Wow! That's sooo cool!!! Thank you for sharing. Wish you all the best with this cool new chapter of your life!

[@pst5345]

"spectator friendly". That is the death of every martial art

[@bombastikderteutone6858]

why?

[@Jordanthecool7]

As someone who currently does judo, I believe that a lot of modern judo is still very useful , although I also agree that the sport would be much better if things like leg grabs were taught.

[@Beariam24]

My father used to teach judo and I started when I was 4 years old. I’m now 37 and judo is completely different now. Leg grabs and the such was something we learned each week. Quite sad seeing the best moves being removed. My dad learned old school judo which even had a couple of kicks and “judo chops” (never showed the class) but this just shows how watered downed. If I were to go to a club now I’d be penalised all the time 😂

[@gsgoltz]

Good interview with some deep insights on judo by Shintaro.

[@r.m.2870]

Grew up in a pretty rough neighborhood. As a kid I was small and weak, my mom put me on judo and after a few years of training I managed to take down any kid on the block who messed with me, even small groups. So if anyone ever doubts judo as a valid self defense skill, they can kiss my ass. - brown belt

[@bulletsix]

training a full contact MA is a big plus in a self defense situation :)

[@AveSicarius]

I mean any kind of full contact grappling is great in a 1 on 1 (still effective with more than one opponent but you have to understand what to do while staying standing at all costs) fight where a hard surface is involved. Everything's all fun and games until you get dropped on your back/head on the concrete. My friend was a Judoka with some really mediocre striking. He got jumped by two guys, who managed to punch him in the face repeatedly, until he got ahold of one and planted the unfortunate guy face first into the concrete shattering his cheek and jaw while also putting him out cold. The other attacker obviously ran away at that point. If you have a solid surface to use as an impact multiplier, and an understanding of how to people headfirst into it, you can be really dangerous.

[@zartic4life]

Ive never met anyone that doubts its effectiveness on street only in the cage.

[@MJRLHobbyStuff]

Great insight. Karate (wkf) often follows Judos lead when it comes to changing rule sets. Karate has simplified penalties and scoring rules

[@Zz7722zZ]

That BJJ match footage was hilarious.

[@MartialArtsJourney]

The butt scooping? 😃 I love that footage!

[@InGrindWeCrust2010]

I really like the suggestions for better Brazilian rules.

[@InGrindWeCrust2010]

@@MartialArtsJourney A friendly aside, Rokas, it's "scooting." "Scooping" would involve something like a spoon and would be too gross to think about. Having said this, your English is probably better than mine and it's my first language. 😅

[@xa5010]

It shows how much the rules affect the players' behavior. Miyao sits because he is really, really good at attacking anyone who engages him in this position, they can't pass his guard, and they can't stop him from getting to their back once they engage. The particular rules of that match allow him to sit down and do not require that his opponent engage. That is why the standing guy walked away at some point--he was refusing to engage the sitting Miyao, as Miyao has too much of an advantage and will very likely either grab and attack a leg or get a sweep and 2 points as soon as the guy engages. If this was an MMA fight with strikes and kicks, nobody would sit. Under most common BJJ rules actually neither sitting down without gripping first is allowed nor walking away once someone is on the ground. That reduces the amount of butt scooting but does not eliminate it. There are even rules where they penalize the person who pulls guard as if he got thrown (-2 points), but don't forbid it (i.e. they don't reset but allow the match to continue). Yet, there is a video of a Miyao's fight where he still sits down and pulls guard and doesn't mind to start the fight with -2 points, because he is sure he will sweep and get on top 99% of the time (which will restore the points to even) and take it from there. It saves him the trouble of having to take the other guy down. Still, I fully agree that butt scooting is not very "martial-art-like". Nor is judokas rolling on their bellies at the first sign of trouble on the ground. In BJJ nobody does that and nobody likes to be in turtle. People usually try to go back to guard and to keep fighting rather than rely on the referee to say "mate".

[@XxTheMetalistxX]

If you enjoyed the buttscooting footage, I'm sure you will enjoy this one: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hHvQeKmfeK-Zm7M The same guy 'João Miyao', sits and then proceed to have the absolute time of his life chasing his opponent around the mat for the next minute :'] Buttscooting = The meaning of life.

[@Yupppi]

It's so funny to watch like 30 swimming events where the only difference is the match length, but wrestling and judo were too similar. This was fun, haven't heard Higashi talk about judo history and sharing his knowledge across the different variations of the sibling arts. One thing you could mention about modern judo is that despite all the ways to make it more engaging, there's still matches that go to equally long on golden score and just about nothing happens, or that some people play the penalties and strategise so that it won't be a match about trying to throw your opponent or pin or submit them. People still find ways to game the system since it's a sport. My town's local judo club actually has a kata class every week. Not hugely popular, but a friend participated in kata competition through that. It's in my opinion a great way to learn techniques and sequences fast and get extra training on top of your regular judo classes where you do random stuff and strategies and randori and just practice fighting. In kata you can drill the techniques very nicely and learn newaza sequences that serve as a nice base to develop on.

[@frederickmorton275]

nice video. shintaro is very down to earth with his approach to judo. very realistic and pretty much doesn't sugar coat anything. seems to know the way the marketplace works and is not trying to hide it. Me personally, I like modern judo pace much more. it's just so much more action and so much more fun to play this game. it's super engaging and very intense. I'm in my late 30s now and after every randori I'm half dead next morning. after bjj class and 3 X 6 minutes rounds of rolling I'm not nearly as tired as I am after solid judo class. much more actio packed in shorted time. to get same level of tiredness out of bjj 2 classes followed by open mat are needed as opposed to judos 1.5hr class and randori. plus even warm up is much more physical and pace if the class is competition oriented

[@chrisofmelbourne87]

There is interesting. I am a 2nd Dan in Taekwondo and it saddens me how it has changed so much. 1970's to 19990s...compared to now, is so different. They were fierce, would kick hard, dynamic, fast, great combos and counters. They would uses punches, always have their hands up. Nowadays it looks like foot fencing... Would you consider doing a similar video about TKD?

[@Jake-df2zj]

You are absolutely right. Taekwondo needs to change it's rules. Lowkicks and sweeps should be allowed in competitions. And they should get rid of the chest protection.

[@davida.rosales6025]

Wrist twists are underappreciated. I remember playing around with them for fun in light-hearted randori, not competition. And we discovered (Judo friends and I) that if you apply some Ai-kido techniques with Judo mentalityin terms of strength and positioning, then a lot of Ai-Kido stuff is doable if you can really hold the hand and put it close to your body.

[@GeorgeBTV09]

Who knew Maui is a Judo expert! Great video!

[@DSUSN127]

I took a few classes at Shintaro’s father Nobuyoshi’s gym in NYC when I was a kid. I remember Shintaro being super nice and helpful when it came to explaining technique. The gym was under a Buddhist temple, if I remember correctly! Cool place to train.

[@stevezy4772]

Shintaro Higashi broke it down nice. However, I am kind of surprised that you as an Aikido practitioner would find it curious to see Aikido techniques in the old footage. Aikido came from Jujutsu come on dude. Ueshiba was a Jujutsu man.

[@psychicgregorytheloveguru7123]

I trained traditional Judo, Seattle Judo dojo which was operated by a Japanese master who interprets what the names of the techniques are and you truly learn the beauty of judo. I also trained college level judo and you learn what getting thrown really really fast means.

[@victorgarza6084]

Excellent video, and excellent commentary. By the way, mifune is a legend, and learned directly from Master kano. The footage is light randori of mifune with students

[@alLEDP]

Shintaro is like the laid back jog who was very good in every sport in school who went to business school and got very eloquent. You still feel the meat head energy but he know what he is talking about and is very good at it.

[@hillweggs641]

You mean 'jock'?

[@Malaestro]

Pretty sure he also went to teacher’s college. Just being high energy and a physical beast doesn’t make you a “jock” or a “meathead”, he’s a very intelligent and well considered guy

[@alLEDP]

@@Malaestro Yeah he said so in a video. He did a MBA or sth like that i think.

[@bombastikderteutone6858]

in all honesty the whole MA Business is full of meat heads and shintaro is not one of them

[@fernandocabette6050]

I trained a LOT Judo back in the day and i don't know if it was our sensei or something but we trained a lot of groundwork so much so sometimes we spared with the Jujitsu guys on their level. Anyway, i find modern Olympics judo boring is that they want so much action the positioning chess aspect is getting lost imho. The judokas are back on their feet almost as soon as they hit the ground so there isn't even an incentive to throw setting up a submission. All in all i think adapting the ruleset to cater to a less knowledgeable audience is a shoot on the foot because the problem of complex rules aren't the rules themselves but the live commentary unable to explain the moment to moment strategy. I mean, the gymnastics score system is complex and boring to watch if the jurnalist commenting is bad, but if they are good and can explain the ins and outs they it is great to watch. In short, yeah we can streamline some rules when they are dangerous, but ruling out moves for action sake just makes bad ART out of martial arts.

[@jasonpoilovs4903]

That was a great video! I had no idea that it was the IOC that pushed for the removal of leg grabs. I love it when I learn something Thanks 🙏

[@bolieve603]

It's funny that people make fun of BJJ as boring but there are plenty of medalists in judo grand prix and grand slams who won the majority of their matches by gripping in the right places, keeping their feet in bounds, and doing enough half-hearted attacks in a row to win by hansoku make. It was especially bad in 2018-2019

[@KisorcererAMP]

I loved watching every second of this video!

[@MartialArtsJourney]

Happy to hear it!

[@cubingonmymind]

i love shintaro! so great to see you guys making a video together, keep it up!

[@DarksidersWar03]

As a amateur German judo champ I absolutely love this sport and it saved my life 3 times when I got mugged, all three times I didn't get any injuries and the attackers were sent to hospital.

[@thebagnechannel3183]

This guy’s knowledge of Judo is excellent.

[@velazquezarmouries]

Well koryu jujutsu was pretty wild and it usually ended with someone having a tanto jabbed on their throat

[@mielmahalq]

I'm really diggin that thumbnail...

[@MartialArtsJourney]

Thanks! Really glad to hear it!

[@Qunyc1985]

Damn shintaro is on his hustle. He definitely doesnt want to meet his Dad in the next world after losing the Dojo.

[@xa5010]

??

[@bassi1973]

can we just induct Shintaro into the International Olympic Committee

[@MartialArtsJourney]

😁

[@jedijudoka]

Straight ankle, half crab, Boston crab, calf slicer, toe hold, and knee bar were all in judo back in the day. Heel hook was not but a judoka (takeo Yano)who had learned it was responsible for bringing it to Brazil

[@memysurname7521]

Huge Catch Wrestling influence on Brazilian grappling, in fact during a long time the Luta Livre Brasileira guys would be the specialists on leg locks instead of BJJ for this reason, more catch wrestling in LLB than in BJJ, as the father of Luta Livre, Tatu, was a catch wrestlers student. George Gracie was a Catch wrestling champion, and learned from the catch wrestling Dudu, and won against Takeo Yano by a leg lock, while Yano was running away from him on the ground and trying to win by points for take downs. Yano also fought against the father of Luta Livre Brasileira Tatu, 3 times, losing the 2 no gi, and winning the only one in the gi by tiring Tatu out with grip fighting.

[@GagiPetrovic]

Great nuanced content, thank you!

[@blackjaguarlord]

Man, this is a great channel ---discovered it yesterday! Thanks for the excellent videos!!

[@MartialArtsJourney]

Thanks Ismael! Glad to hear it!

[@greenmarine5]

When I was a white Belt in Tae Kwon Do in the early 80's My instructor Master Park was from Korea, his training was brutal and we left the dojang totally exhausted and our Gi's completely wet and dripping from sweat so bad it looked like we jumped into a swimming pool. Over the years as American Instructors took over the classes got easier and easier. When I became Sabom'nim the training went back to when Master Park was in charge and I quickly got challenged by parents and the local establishment so bad in fact I went into Private teaching.. I'm here to say that Training has a huge role in the skill of the art and the readiness for a defensive situation. If you don't train hard you won't be hard, of course there is respect and love that goes into training along with a sense of leadership and responsibility with abdominal spirit, courtesy, self control, integrity and perseverance.

[@bruceparker6142]

It's interesting that Sambo is expected in the next Olympics. Let's see what happens to leg grabs.

[@johnpauljones9310]

Freestyle Judo broke away from the Olympic Ruleset. Check it out.

[@marceloisoni9158]

I've read it that joint looks were limited to the elbow only in 1925. It's makes sense, since there were no knee cirguries back then.

[@IncredibleMD]

The thing that amazes me about that Kyuzo Mifune video, which was done in his seventies if I recall, was that the student IS actually trying to throw him. He's probably not going 100%, yeah, but the fact that it's not just a student letting his master pretend to beat him up like they're a no-touch mcdojo IS amazing, at that age.

[@peterbartolomeo9574]

78 years old I believe. They students were ranked as high as 8 th Dan. No....he held his own. He proved at his age he was still masterful

[@Oldhandlewasabitcringe]

I mean if they wanted to they could have rag dolled the old dude, like have you ever trained with smaller people? Throwing them is easy even with bad technique, especially when you have them up in the air like that already

[@IncredibleMD]

@@Oldhandlewasabitcringe I think just setting him down after he's up in the air like that is part of the dude going a bit slow for the old man. If you can prove you can get the dude that far in the air, there's really no need to follow through and slam him.

[@bombastikderteutone6858]

@@Oldhandlewasabitcringe have you ever trained with smaller people who outmach you by alot of skill? Its not that easy any more

[@911Salvage]

That BJJ tournament footage was hilarious.

[@tonyford2391]

Shintaro is amazing. Love a realistic breakdown of flaws in styles

[@ezsmith3765]

The IOC was threatening to combine Judo and Wrestling into one competition because from their (ignorant perspective) the 2 different combat sports/martial arts were looking too similar to one another.

[@ezsmith3765]

I should’ve watched THEN commented because this is basically exactly what the video covered.

[@beeno3487]

As a wrestler, it’s sacreligious for a grappler to not be able to grab legs. That being said greco Roman exists 😅

[@lazerfruit2121]

I think the IOC forcing sports to change their rules purely because they can is incredibly bullshit

[@xyoungblood]

I spent 20 years studying old-school self-defense Judo. I live in a town where it was too far to go to tournaments, doing sport judo would have been pointless. Our primary focus was on standing judo and self-defense katas with some groundwork. Groundwork is great exercise but for self-defense, it's too dangerous to be on the ground. Your opponent's friends will be kicking and stabbing you. Get on your feet, even if you have to bite, pull hair, crush nuts or gouge eyes out. There really isn't any comparison between Sport Judo and Judo the martial art, they are apples and oranges.

[@bombastikderteutone6858]

so ..your opponent friends wont be able to "kicking and stabbing you" while youre standing up?

[@realtruth1448]

@@bombastikderteutone6858it’ll be dramatically harder for them to do it

[@bombastikderteutone6858]

@@realtruth1448 it will be dramatically harder...for them to stab you...while your standing up? For a group? with knives?

[@realtruth1448]

@@bombastikderteutone6858 yes, because you can move around, you can teep one then have a chance of running away, if you’re on the ground you stand zero chance of escaping, if you’re on your feet you stand a chance of escaping, it’s simple to understand this, but clearly you’re missing braincells smooth brain

[@aegisprotection4969]

Having done a variety of competitions.. If you are a competitor, rule set is everything. That's what you train for. We optimize for what we are being graded on. I can think of some grappling competitions that emphasized takedown points. Which led to a lot of people training for linebacker charges, getting their points and just doing a goofy hold down for 4 minutes. When they have done Zero damage. They're not doing anything but running out the clock. I do stand by judo for self defense, with some caveats. The caveat being someone has to set themselves up for a lot of the throws. But real people do that. And a good hip or shoulder throw, on ground, generally takes the wind out of people. Osoto-Gari is more offensive, especially with a throat grab. But it has a much higher likelihood of doing permanent damage to someone. Which is something to consider for modern practice. Osoto Gari is hard to pull off on trained fighters who are ready. But pretty easy on untrained people. Especially if the Judo person initiates. O GoShi and Ippon are generally the easiest throws against untrained people who initiate. Great video! Thank you!

[@jackreacher4488]

If you want jiu jitsu people to participate in Olympic judo, maybe it would be best to change the rules to kosen judo. A good throw is still ippon, but if they go to the ground they keep rolling until somebody taps or time runs out. Pulling guard should carry a penalty of - 5 points. Hate it when people don't even try to throw or takedown their opponent, just go for a lazy guard pull.

[@ethienosinsky5186]

Let's sign a petition to change the BJJ rules like Shintaro suggested

[@eclipsewrecker]

One’s wearing pajamas, and the other one’s dressed to go swimming circa 1920. Who was dominating judo right before the leg ban?

[@vitoravila9908]

Japanese have always been at the top, followed by France, Korea, Brazil, etc…but right before the “leg ban” a lot of Russian and former USSR countries were doing really well… to be fair, they still are doing really well … in the 2008 Beijing Olympics(last cycle w/ leg grabs) the Medal table was Japan, China, S Korea, Azerbaijan and Georgia. In London 2012(w/out leg grabs) it was Russia, France, S Korea, Japan and Cuba, Rio 2016 was Japan, France, Russia, Italy/USA and Brazil, Tokyo 2020/2021 was Japan, France, Kosovo, Georgia and Czech Republic…

[@Fred-px5xu]

Roka you and Shintaro are awesome

[@MartialArtsJourney]

Thank you 😊🙏

[@brandondillman5848]

I supposed judo with leg grabs does look a whole lot like wrestling but, as a wrestler, I’m totally ok with that lol. I love seeing the big throws of judo. I wish they’d implement a Ippon only title or championship. No points only pins and submissions.

[@Tobby4063]

I love what Shintaro has to say about livening things up. I train Jiu Jitsu, but it can be boring to watch. Shintaro is a legend.

[@jeremydajardd1148]

The most significant difference for me is that Mifune trained 50 years Judo every day in the row. Who can be compared to him in this? What human become after 50 years of everyday rigorous training and who can beat man like him?

[@sohrabkazerooni69]

Excellent discussion

[@englishwithanes]

A randori with abe uta will be great 👍🏻

[@maxk1583]

When I was little during nevasa I unintentionally got in a position where i could do a leg lock so i tried it. I always think back to that moment when someone from a different sport easily gets leg locks on me because I never learned to instinctively protect my legs from it

[@christophertaylor3150]

Thanks for explaining this

[@misfitsaysme5150]

I went from Judo to wrestling as a kid and then came back to judo as an adult. When I came back you could still grab legs, and I would just beat everyone easily with wrestling when my judo wasn’t working. If you watch a lot of old footage, a lot of the Russian wrestlers were just cleaning up with wrestling. So it almost wasn’t fair, and I just think that was the biggest reason for removal of leg grabs. Now you see the Russian Greco guys just cleaning up lol.

[@zaccy]

I trained 15-20 years ago and have since branched into other martial arts. I can say from my experience, the old school judo I was learning was more effective as a martial art from what I have seen today as there were not as many limitations on techniques and we would learn things weapons defence or reality applicable techniques which I dont see as often now.

[@bombastikderteutone6858]

what limitations exactly are bothering you?

[@pickleballer1729]

I observed the rules changes in action after a 30 year hiatus from Judo, and was not at all impressed. One of my favorite throws, called _Kuchiki Taoshi_ , was where you picked the leg by pulling it forward with a _Ko Uchi Gari_ , then grabbed it and did an _O uchi gari_ to the other leg. Kuchiki Taoshi (or Daoshi) translates to "dead tree drop". Fitting, I think. That technique is illegal now. The explanation here about making the sport more viewer friendly makes sense. I'm currently heavily involved in another sport that has had several rules changes for the same reason lately, and it has made the game less fun. I really wish the sports would be managed with the players in mind instead of the advertisers.

[@kristianOLS]

Interesting the leg lock talk, Judo banned them imo for safety in the early 1900s when ACL or other leg/knee injuries had no surgical remedies. Its interesting to see them retained in the descendant systems of BJJ, Sambo, and to a lesser extent Japanese catch wrestling systems

[@AveSicarius]

I think this is largely because these styles were descended from Judo but not involved in Judo competition where they would be illegal, and as such not worth practicing with that aim in mind. Though leg locks in BJJ only really developed further relatively recently due to there being some stigma involving them.

[@The_Ballo]

A lot of BJJ tournaments have banned them, too. The mistake IMO was banning them outright instead of banning them only for lesser belts

[@mariasalome4578]

@@AveSicarius Catch wrestling, japanese or otherwise, dont descend from Judo. And BJJ aways had contact with Catch Wrestling too, the Gracies learned from catch wrestler Dudu, and George Gracie was a champion in the brazilian scene of Catch Wrestling. There is no reason to believe leglocks were ever common in Judo, in fact the reason for the ban was probably the leg breaking of a Kano student caused by a Japanese Jujutsu fighter, Tanabe, in front of the Emperor.

[@mariasalome4578]

Please dont credit Judo with the leglocks in Japanese Catch wrestling. This is intellectually dishonest. Even the time period dont match. And BJJ aways had contact with Catch Wrestling too, the Gracies learned from catch wrestler Dudu, and George Gracie was a champion in the brazilian scene of Catch Wrestling. There is no reason to believe leglocks were ever common in Judo, in fact the reason for the ban was probably the leg breaking of a Kano student caused by a Japanese Jujutsu fighter, Tanabe, in front of the Emperor.

[@memysurname7521]

Catch as Catch Can was aways big on leglocks, it was aways their thing. No need to they "learn from judo" kinda of talk. No reason at all to believe Kano and his students practiced much if any leglocks also. In fact Kano ban of them was because of one of his students losing by it to japanese Jujutsuka Tanabe in front of the emperor of Japan. Tanabe even had to fight to his favorite leglock be in the curriculum at all.

[@fattiuncognome9425]

I prefer the old style of judo

[@Jake-df2zj]

Where is the problem, when leg grapping let judo look like wrestling?? I don't get it

[@irb911]

What an amazing video Rokas!!! Please make more such videos....... The "I gave up my aikido school and trained more functionally" angle was starting to get tiresome for me as an audience member ..... All the best and looking forward to more similar stuff......

[@MartialArtsJourney]

Thanks! I'm planning to go for old school vs modern taekwondo next!

[@Shigashi84]

Algo comment! Let's go Rokas~! :-)

[@MartialArtsJourney]

Thanks so much Shintaro for being a part of this video! It was so cool to hear all your insights about the pros and cons of old school/modern judo 🙏

[@ac833]

I want more with Shintaro!!!

[@PassanCat]

Reading through the foundation of Judo, before it was taught in school, the more letha or dangerous moves had to be removed.

[@vano-559]

Old Judo was oriented to techniques or technical sets known as kata however modern mostly on win in sparring if you ask me.

[@jenpachi2408]

Alot of that stuff with throws that aren't allowed are used in BJJ in some gyms we regularly train slot of those throws

[@uncle_martin1131]

I'm a judoka but I can't watch a judo championship for more then 5 minutes...it's just boring. I like judo for the martial aspect so I enjoy more the self defence implications rather then the sport.

[@solidonaso9763]

Here we can see the difference between art and sport

[@shemshem9998]

important thing to say on the leg grabs, that technique they showed is legal, but not in the way it was preformed, it is still allowed but only as a follow up to another attempt or to counter, so lets say I fail to throw my opponent with a o-goshi, i am now allowed to go and do a uchi-kibisu-gaeshi (an enkle pick). or lets say my opponent goes for an osoto-otoshi (outside leg sweep), but i mange to step out of it and do a te-garuma on him, one of the sickes throws ever, both of these scenarios are legal. also important, yes judo is sport focused, and many train to become better at the sport, it does not mean we don't practice those throws, i had to still learn roughly 11 throws that use legs, that's like 1 in 6 throws is including legs, because i just painstakingly counted them all in my booklet of shit i had to learn, and there where 60 different take down techniques and 11 including legs, still that's nearly 20%. and we had to learn these to go up in belts, so we still learn them indefinitely, i guess we just end up practicing them less

[@basedbane787]

Same thing with jujitsu in mma. "You just don't understand grappling" like ok I don't. I don't wanna take six months of jujitsu classes to watch TV better lol

[@guilhermecaiado5384]

I trained under Kodokan in Brazil and we had days with ne-waza only randori with bjj guys.

[@milty66]

judo was simply synthesized and adapted from existing Koryu by Kano to create a school which incorporated the best practical techniques

[@ricardokerscher]

don't forget that in addition to the martial art, judo was created to be a physical education and mainly a way of life through morality

[@killaben85]

Hey Rokas have you ever trained in Ristynės? I think it would be interesting to see you training in Lithuanias Folk Wrestling style.

[@MartialArtsJourney]

The thing is I heard that it exists, but I never saw anyone teaching it, even in Lithuania 😅 I'm concerned that it's mostly a historic practice and not one that was properly preserved. But I'll do some more investigation

[@killaben85]

@@MartialArtsJourney well whether it is or isn't, still will make for good content. Plus if it is a HEMA art that is one area of the martial arts community you haven't explored, despite being a European Martial Artist.

[@makenjikarate]

Brilliant conversation, martial arts change all the time. Sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse. But the truth is the test of time and honestly despite the changes, judo is still very popular!

[@rhodrimorice7746]

If martial arts is all about just fighting and defending yourself with force then if you are a heavyweight male in peak physical condition with perfect technique, then you know you can successfully use your art for combat for about 40% of your life against all unarmed people. But change one variable such as your size, gender or any disability why bother training? What is respected by this master is his refinement and mastery of himself, his art and his technique. I think what martial arts is truly about, is the mastery of your environment and reality.

[@hypnoticskull6342]

I’d love to see an entire MMA match for old school fighters who tested themselves against every situation

[@chrisofmelbourne87]

Omg me too!!!!!

[@haraldodunkirk1432]

It’s a damn shame because inclusion of leg grabs makes judo significantly more effective for fighting/MMA etc.

[@reigninblood123]

it's a trade off

[@haraldodunkirk1432]

Between what? Fighting efficiency and… Olympic viability … or Japanese not being double-legged by Mongolians anymore?

[@reigninblood123]

@@haraldodunkirk1432 I mean judo differentiating itself from wrestling. To see more of the beautiful traditional throws we may have to see less of the double leg takedowns. No big deal

[@MatthewNguyen-zx3de]

@@haraldodunkirk1432 Mongolians don't really do leg grabs though. Their best techniques are literally the sort of shit that leg grabs counter. If you wanted to stop Mongolians from winning, you'd have kept leg grab rules lol.

[@paulthomassen5007]

I don't recognize what is referred to as modern judo as the sport/martial art i practiced as a teen 30 years ago. We were at least doing 60% ne wasa. Every sparring match went to ne wasa and a tapout. And the very few real fights I've had in my life I've ended with a chokehold. I'd say pure tournament judo is reserved for certain gyms. I trained at a judo Club, maybe that's one of the differences. I see no or very little difference between the judo we practiced, bjj and Gracie jiu-jitsu

[@SethDavidson68]

Nice talk. thanks

[@mirko85able]

Point systems have ruined and are ruining contact martial arts. Once a point system is established, the fighters start applying a meta-game to the fight in order to obtain points rather than fight efficiency.