Marvel finally answers the question of what's sacred timeline canon

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Check out the Google Drive timeline documents: drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/1R_PrexMkTjYpQAraxlhzs2U5EPJEPioc. Join the conversation with over 1200 members on the discord server: discord.gg/aboeMCU

[@FUFUCarnagerap]

Here Bro a selfmade Timeline from a friend of mine its amazing and has everything Marvel in it! Phase 1 Captain America:First Avenger Marvel One Shot 4-Agent Carter Marvels Agent Carter Staffel 1+2 Captain Marvel Ghost Rider 1 (pretend the Ghost Rider that passes his Powers in AoS is Nick Cages Ghost Rider) Iron Man Iron Man 2 Incredible Hulk Marvel One Shot 1-The Consultant Marvel One Shot 2-A funny Thing happened on the Way to Thors Hammer Thor Captain America:First Avenger-After Credit Avengers Marvel One Shot 3-Object 47 Phase 2: Iron Man 3 Marvel One Shot 5-All Hail to the King Agents Of Shield Season 1, Episode 1 (Pilot) till Episode 14 Thor 2-Dark Kingdom Agents of Shield S1 15=Lorelei-Sif (Thor 2 Crossover) Captain America 2-Winter Soldier Agents of Shield Season 1,Episode 16-17(Cap 2 Crossover) till Episode 22 (Beginning of the End) Guardians of the Galaxy Guardians of the Galaxy 2 I am Groot S 1+2 Daredevil S 1 Agents of Shield S2 E1-E8 Jessica Jones S 1 Agents of Shield S2 E9-E 19 (Rainas Vision of the Destruction in AoU Crossover) Avengers 2-Age of Ultron Agents of Shield S2 E20-E22 Christine Everhardt WhIH World News S1 E1 Daredevil S2 1-4 Luke Cage S1 1-4 Daredevil S2 5-11 Luke Cage S1 5-8 Daredevil S2 12-13 Luke Cage S1 9-13 Christine Everhardt WhIH World News S1 E 2-5 Ant-Man AoS S2.01-3.10 Phase 3: Agents of Shield Staffel 3.11-3.19 Christine Everhardt WHIH News S2 Captain America 3-Civil War Black Widow Spiderman Homecoming AoS 3.20-22 Iron Fist S1 Defenders S1 AoS S4.01 -4.06 (Crossover , pretend the Ghost Rider that passes his Powers to Rayes is Nick Cages Ghost Rider) Doctor Strange Black Panther Aos 4.07-4.08 AoS Webisodes Slingshot AoS 4.09-4.22 Thor 3-Ragnarok Inhumans S1 Punisher S1 Runaways S1 Jessica Jones S2 Runaways S2 Cloak&Dagger S1+S2 Luke Cage S2 Iron Fist S2 Daredevil S3 Punisher S2 Jessica Jones S3 Infinity War Ant Man & the Wasp Runaways S3 Avengers Endgame Phase 4.1 (Here begins my own creation of a watchorder, I switched Loki and What if to fit with Doc Strange 2, NWH and my own "Non Multiverse Saga"! Wandavision S1 Falcon and the Winter Soldier Shang Shi Eternals Loki What if NON MCU Multiverse Saga : (Sortet after Releasedate and with stuff like DoaFP or AOS S6 to change the Universe) Phase 1 Howard the Duck (Garbage Movie, Genius Multiversal Intro!!!) 70s Spider-Man Trilogy Spiderman Japan Dr Strange 78 80s Hulk Series + Trilogy Generation X Captain America 1990 Fantastic 4 94 Nick Fury 1998 Phase 2 X-Men Wolverine Origins Blade 1 X-Men First Class X-Men 1 2000 Spider-Man 1 2002 Blade 2 Daredevil 2003 Hulk 2003 X-Men 2 2003 Spider-Man 2 2004 The Punisher 2004 Blade 3 Fantastic Four 1 2005 Electra 2005 Spider-Man 3 2007 Fantastic Four 2 2007 X-Men 3 2006 !!!!! Wolverine 2 2013 DoaFP Legion New Mutants Gifted Logan Agents of Shield S 5 +6 Phase 3 Agents of Shield S 7 X Men Apocalypse Amazing Spider-Man 1 Venom 1 Punisher Warzone Deadpool 1 Helstrom Fantastic Four 2015 X Men Dark Phönix Deadpool 2(OuaDP) Amazing Spider-Man 2 Venom 2 Morbius Kraven Madame Web Into the Spider-Verse 1+2 MCU Phase 4 continues (all the X Men and FF and Inhumans SHow give a crossover in the Illuminati and NWH and the Spider Men... you know it..) Spider-Man Far from Home Spiderman-No Way home Doctor Strange 2 Hawkeye S1 Moon Knight S1 Black Panther 2 Echo She Hulk Ms Marvel Thor 4 Werewolf by Night Guardians of the Galaxy Holiday Special Phase 5 Ant Man 3 Guardians of the Galaxy 3 Secret Invasion The Marvels Deadpool 3

[@CalicoEvrywerigo]

​@FUFUCarnagerap That is a fine hand, I must say. You are a gentleman...of the craft. I would also note for anyone reading this far, AoS did more to setup phase thru Deadpool three than anyone gives it credit. As a stand alone series all the disney+ shows should take a nod and give one back to AOS. After Phillip J Coulson is replaced by filthy shapshifting Skrull in Captain Marvel and it dies Fury becomes aware @ the city bus riding, Ⓜ Blueline🚇 metro-rail traveling, ground-level for street crimes like Blockbuster break-ins that the need for an Avengers protocol. World Security Council Gideon Malik head of Hydra in AoS is responsible with Alexander Pierce attempt on Nick's life in Winter Soldier. When Natasha, & Steve were the only others to know Fury lives, Hill was sent to tell Coulson. Same Magical place T.A.H.I.T.I bot that brought him back to life is now K.E.V.I.N. in She Hulk. The bunker Astornaut Daniel Walker lived with Simmons is the same bunker as the Loki Season 1 Royal Rumble with 🐊 Loki biting off the hand of the Mayor. The planetary storm chasing FitzSimmons is described as evil that consumes, Loki was told that's Alioth named after the star of the Great Bear constellation, devouring like the bears open mouth at the Big Dipper...Rrrrr.😅 When did the TVA arrest Loki? After he killed Coulson 2012. AVENGERS 1&4. SO, the Chitauri invasion led by Loki is the same invasion of Thanos, either way. When the Alien Confederacy states to Graviton and I think Phil, that even now, Thanos's forces have conqured earth. Because had the Avengers known what absolute danger they were in, they'd inevitably need the TimeStone of whoever were Sorcerer Supreme but like the Ancient One said, whereby in a time-loop they'd always be too early or too late, which is why, Sitwell and Rumlow were Hydra squid-heads keeping eyes and ears on Stephen Strange, so on & so forth, because Nathan Malik is a hydra time traveler and John Garrett was his buddy was killed by Nick & Coulson. AoS gave the Chronicoms judge Atarah and Sybil as theoretically the best predecessors for Ravonna Rensselaer in Loki. Miss Minutes trying to download herself a body in AoS 1980s computer killbot mode after seducing that corny guy. His legacy internet is remnant of the fax or email in Wandavision. The Lighthouse was invaded. Even looking at the difference in Chronicom roles for Enoch and Noah vs. their respective similarities to TVA Analysts like Mobius & Hunters like B19 X5 or C20 whatever, when Noah & Enoch were timekeepers in places for long times or through time, until the time of as if, for all time always.😂 Enoch held down the S.H.I.E.L.D bar for years. The Orange Writing when the 616bus becomes time equipped all resemble TVA. Like if, the offspring of FitzSimmons work or Chronicoms actually took over and managed to give Kang a thrown that became Loki's. I don't have my notes present but when you go back in time and Skye-Quake Daisy Johnson breaks one Chromicom Hunters and he malfunctions, the screen freeze is all the proof of TVA, Kang activity, and the breaking loom. If I'm wrong, and only things like the pruned Qeng towers, Helicarriers, old Bermuda Triangle warships or what-have-you, go into the void, then, why is the giant Hydra logo there in AoS even as we see the Red Skull's hotrod in DP3 footage where there's also a giant 20thCenturyFox logo that has everyone hyped... if it isn't?! Because IT IS the same Void in Loki, ...Battleworld for Deadpool 3,... IS the same as thru the Kree Death (in Hebrew) Monoliths, would take you, world with little to no sunlight, that Simmons was sucked thru when we find out Hydra had sacrificed people to this thing since the 1600s and that Hydra became NASA. Had Coulson not killed Ward there is it possible the Hive wouldn't have come back with him? Madame Hydra? AiDA from Framework, Ultron all over again or more so, like Danger Room catching fellings.😂 How did the Darkhold get to the temple mount of the ScarletWitch before Dr. strange in the Multiverse of Madness? Robbie Reyes GhostRider in AoS whips open a chain portal of hellfire very visually similar to Strange, Wong, and Ned's in NWH and if you look thru this portal of Robbie Reyes' you can make out the color & shape and background easter eggs for Dr.MoM.

[@RusianSpy]

9:25 This is pretty much why I hadn't considered Disney Plus timeline as a serious thing until I found your videos making sense of it. That said, the way he says "That's our medium to define the canon now, which is wild to think about" makes me think Marvel hasn't fully grasped how much power and introspection that timeline has. They may not even be fully aware of the debates about timeline happening online, considering when he says, "Oh, it's not just assumed."

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yeah, those quotes were very interesting. But I do think Marvel gets it, because the D+ timeline matched the timeline book perfectly...other than Shang Chi...which was then fixed at the same time the book was released. So hopefully Marvel continues to put the effort into making sure the D+ timeline reflects what Marvel considers to be canon.

[@tylergalbraith1533]

Agents of shield is one of my favorite things marvel has put out. I love the way the first 5 seasons track and slowly fade to subtle nods before the timeline cracks. Season 6 and 7 is wild too!

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Agents of SHIELD was such a good show. One way or another, I really hope they bring the characters back. Please, Marvel, make it happen!

[@tylergalbraith1533]

The ties into agent Carter as well were really well done and always felt like little gifts sprinkled in along the way! I even watched inhumans because of the terrigen tie in and I thought the variant black bolt in multiverse of madness was a cool nod

[@F0CKSTR0T]

@@AbitofEverything4U AoS still holds up way too well. People are still discovering it. It might be my favorite MCU thing in general. Have you done a video on the AoS timeline? I know it would be quite the spoilerfest but I honestly need to know what's happening. It's like clearly canon for those first 4 seasons and then they start doing things that to me indicate it branched wildly.

[@CalicoEvrywerigo]

Chromicoms setup TVA so well. The fact that Battle-world, the void starts there on AoS with Daniel Walker’s bunker in the FitzSimmons arch of literally going across the universe

[@AbitofEverything4U]

​@@F0CKSTR0T Great question about the AoS timeline. I did indeed do vid on that, in case you are interested: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mnLKpZh6rt1pg7c. Then, due to Marvel moving around Winter Soldier and Iron Man 3 when the timeline book arrived, I touched on the small changes to the earlier timeline AoS vid here: Winter Soldier (kzbin.info/www/bejne/g2PNo4uBgNuZY9E) and Iron Man 3 (kzbin.info/www/bejne/qJfOnpZsgsuMbK8)

[@jesusramirezromo2037]

This debate would have easily been settled ages ago, IF Endgame didn't slightly crop out a frame, as there was a picture of Whitehall on a screen, Fundamentally proving AOS is canon if they went out of their way to include a TV show character

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Exactly! I'd have loved to be in the editing room to understand what led to that fateful decision!

[@adrianporter5749]

I am so sad about that, I think I would have screamed in the theatre cause they pan across that screen and it would have been very easy to spot!

[@wynsfield]

@@AbitofEverything4U can you tell me in which scene is this? I wanted to see it too.

[@InitialAA]

​@@wynsfield Think it was in the scene where Stark retrieved the Tesseract. I remember seeing the image a while back, but don't know where exactly it was. Look it up, you'll find it.

[@KrazyStylez09]

Whitehall was probably my most hated villain on aos. Like as in , i hated him so much cuz he is written well

[@CJ-JA]

I really do hope that one day that AoS gets added to the complete timeline, it’s very obvious that it’s MCU canon, so does Agent Carter while we’re at it

[@ivanagustinortiz5237]

Those two shows have more chances of being canon that Inhumans or Helstorm (quality wise), yet Anson Mount returned to portray Black Bolt and Marvel barely said anything about it. So I guess it's more about when and how, rather than will they.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

I agree...the two most likely shows to get added into canon are AoS and AC. Fingers crossed Marvel makes the call!

[@nexusbeholder4105]

Great work on the video and breaking down what Brad said! Every day I check KZbin to see if you posted. Keep up the good work! I'm disappointed that the rest of the pre-Disney Plus MCU shows aren't canon at the moment and especially disappointed that Marvel has sat down and consciously made the decision to not include AoS and Agent Carter. AoS not only had the most movie crossovers, but also had the most references to the other shows (Creel, the Darkhold, Agent Carter, Inhumans, etc). What's nice though is that, like the Defenders Saga, the rest of the shows fit seamlessly into the Sacred Timeline. So like you said, if we lobby enough, Marvel could finally make that decision to declare them canon again.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

I agree 100% with everything you said...very well stated! Let's keep a positive attitude and keep lobbying so Marvel knows how much the shows mean to us!

[@PanGuy_]

That's what I suspected ... Agents of SHIELD does disconnect quite a lot later on I feel like, but I would be super happy if it did get weaved back into canon somehow. It's literally my favourite marvel show.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yeah, AoS is such a good show. I do feel it drifted away from canon by the 4th or 5th season, but it was still such a fun watch. I'm hoping we get to see some of the characters return to the main MCU eventually!

[@augustmyers339]

In the interview with Agents of Fandom, Winderbaum kind of implied that AoS is next inline for a revisit/revival, so I’m still holding out hope. And if any of the characters come back (probably Daisy), I think that’s when AoS would be added to the timeline.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Well said...I think AoS is the most logical show for Marvel to tackle next. Here's hoping it happens!

[@Jansenbaker]

​​@@AbitofEverything4U I heard the Darkhold in that show is a different design, so how does that work if they make it the same universe as Wandavision? Aos seems like a branch-timeline thing.

[@bluekozmox]

@@Jansenbaker retconning things was never a problem for marvel, just look at what they did with the mandarin

[@__Soya__]

@@bluekozmox Mandarin isn’t a retcon.

[@bluekozmox]

@@__Soya__ the mandarin was supposed to be what it was in iron man 3, they just redirected it in a more comic accurate way after the poor reception

[@drewdrew2172]

I think it’s only a matter of time before we get a proper confirmation that AOS, Agent Carter, Cloak & Dagger, Inhumans, Runaways and Helstrom are in the timeline. I even like to think of Hit Monkey as MCU timeline since it doesn’t really tie into much and can easily slip in

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yup, I suspect we'll keep seeing some of the earlier shows being pulled into that D+ timeline. Fingers crossed!

[@justmeangi]

AOS is up to this day still my favourite Marvel show to revisit. I hope we will see some of the characters again in the MCU like Daisy, Fitz and Simmons even though it's not part of the sacred timeline.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Such an awesome show! Yes, I hope that we get to see those characters again soon one way or another!

[@ThatSpeedrunnerGuy]

The amount of content this man alone has given you is crazy

[@AbitofEverything4U]

lol! ikr...that dude is like solid gold. They need to interview him every week!

[@ghiggs8389]

Imagine, Loki Season 3 (if we ever get such) he goes back to make amends for killing Coulson by setting up the circumstances for project T.A.H.I.T.I. to revive him, retroactively recanonizing the whole series.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Niiiiice! Now that would be a wild twist!

[@ghiggs8389]

@@AbitofEverything4U right? Like he tries to undo killing Coulson but realizes it's a nexus event because it solidified the Avengers, so he finally comes up with Tahiti, even donates the Kree body to Fury to make it happen. This would gel with him trying to keep all the timelines alive. Feige! Make this happen! 😅

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Oh wow...yeah, it would indeed be a nexus event. Great point!

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Oh, sorry, I mean it would be an absolute point in time, like in that Dr. Strange What If episode.

[@ghiggs8389]

@@AbitofEverything4U good catch, that makes more sense.

[@BlackHedgehog]

Great video as always. It does make you wonder if they just haven't gotten around to going over AoS and Agent Carter as far as it slotting into the sacred timeline considering how long it took them to do this for the Netflix shows. Maybe I'm just being optimistic.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

I think your position makes total sense and is exactly how we should be feeling right now...if the Neflix shows got added, then more can come into canon at any minute. So we need to keep letting Marvel know that these shows matter to us and that we want them to be added in!

[@Cris00900340]

It's funny to think that, if they're added to the sacred timeline, Cloak & Dagger and Helstrom could only appear there if you have the Disney+/Hulu Bundle

[@AbitofEverything4U]

ikr? So weird that those shows aren't on D+, but maybe once the merger of the two happens, then it will all be on one interface. Sure would be nice!

[@iraford5788]

Really glad Marvel studios is finally addressing these pre-Disney MCU shows and can't wait to see agents of shield characters return as well.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Totally agree...we really need some of those AoS characters to return...especially Daisy!

[@ViralEdge]

I would love to see a video of you predicting the rest of the Multiverse saga. Between the cut projects / adjusts, Jonathan majors firing / will kang continue or doom. But just how you would see it go from here on out and maybe a bit after

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Good suggestion! I did include some predictions for the slate in this vid: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rWKah6xmeZaemq8, but you are right that I could do a more high-level discussion of the saga as a whole. Nice call!

[@CalicoEvrywerigo]

13:09 Amen

[@AbitofEverything4U]

So awesome to finally have the Defenders considered sacred timeline canon!

[@TheKonradhehe]

Mr. Winderbaum is our man. I love that guy. Maybe they are waiting with aos, ac and inhumans for premiere of Agatha. Because of darkhold, maybe Runaways will come back too. And I can't wait for the app update with splited seasons.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yeah, Winderbaum is the man. He's been out spitting facts left and right. And you may be right that waiting to make any other decisions until after Agatha premiers makes alot of sense. Nice call!

[@ethandoyle4978]

Thanks for posting this video

[@AbitofEverything4U]

My pleasure...thanks for the positive feedback on the vid. Really appreciate it!

[@ethandoyle4978]

@@AbitofEverything4U your welcome , I’ve been saying that we a lot more positivity and support , not more negativity and harsh criticism s.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

💯

[@phillynicko]

Great video! I’m glad we finally have confirmation about the Defenders. Also, almost finished my watch of X-men the animated series. So excited for the x-men 97’

[@AbitofEverything4U]

That's awesome that you're rewatching X-men animated series. And I agree...can't wait for the new series to drop!

[@MarvelStationTH]

11:56 in my country doesn't Fantastic Four Animation i don't know

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Oh, bummer...so you don't have the Fantastic Four section? I hope you get it soon. It's wild how different regions have different content on Disney+.

[@MarvelStationTH]

@@AbitofEverything4U I mean in my country (Thailand) they're has so many thing like All X-Men & F4 Film before US but except a lot of Fantastic Four Animation , Silver Surfur stuff and I don't know where's Marvels runaway go 😂

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yeah, Runaways vanished in the U.S. as well. I think Marvel got rid of it for some reason, which is a bummer!

[@realjohnlove]

13:14 its very possible they watched your video on how to fit Defenders into the sacred timeline because on their end this still seems like them trying to save face you did the work for them

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Oh my, I'd be so honored if they watched my vid. But I suspect they did their own timeline and that we ended up matching due to the fact that we used the same logic for the placements. The shows have a very nice timeline in them that fits really well.

[@rivwilson9330]

Great video!

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Thanks! Really appreciate the positive feedback! I was so happy to see Winderbaum give that interview. That dude is like Santa Claus but he brings us gifts all year round!

[@rivwilson9330]

@@AbitofEverything4U honestly I watch every video you make since Loki season 2. Just don't comment much. But I wanted the algorithm to see you hehe

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Oh, that's very cool. Thx again!

[@FreddyKurganNimmo]

And I'm *STILL* waiting for Disney+ to add Cloak & Dagger to their available viewing catalog🤔🤷

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yeah, I agree...whether or not it's sacred timeline, Marvel needs to add it to D+!

[@elviswalters2648]

I think it’s so interesting that Daredevil BA was re-done to fit into canon. There’s always a balance between fitting everything in to canon and just creating a fun story. I know Agents attempted to do both and for me it really worked but post-infinity war that became much more difficult. If anything seasons 1-5 might be in the sacred timeline. Obviously they were trying to tell a very different prolonged story. The amount of hours of AOS and AC we got far outweigh the infinity saga. I like that they did something different and told their own story without the MCU trying to fit it too much into the canon especially the excellent seasons 6 and 7.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Great summary of things. Yeah, it's tough to make reboots of an older show like Daredevil fit perfectly into canon, but I do appreciate Marvel trying their best and is revamping things due to feeling that they fell short of that goal. And I agree with you on AoS seasons 6 & 7 deviating from the main MCU to the extent that it will be tough to make them fit into canon. But I hope they find a solution for AoS, as I'd love to see those characters again!

[@KingTC12]

mr.everything i got a question for you, if you were able to do this full time what other kinds of content would you release with what you normally make already?

[@AbitofEverything4U]

What a good question. Well, one thing I would try to do is add more pizzazz to the videos. I know that people like music and movie clips here and there, so I'd try to do that. I'd also get better thumbnails, as I know mine are bland. As for content, I would love to do more collaborations with other YT-ers and hopefully get to the point where I can do interviews with writers/directors and get pre-screenings. I'd also like to attend some of the comicons and bring live reports. And I might expand to things beyond even Marvel/DC/Star Wars, and try to cover some of the other big shows and movies. I'm a huge horror fan, so maybe going into that arena somewhat. Also I'd try to do things like cover Dune as an example. Those are some of the ideas I'd have. What suggestions would you have for me?

[@KingTC12]

@@AbitofEverything4U that all sounds awesome!! and honestly i can’t think of any suggestions as your videos peak my interest because you bring up ideas and concepts that I haven’t thought or you make things that I do know more clear. keep it up!! you have one dedicated fan here

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Thanks...I truly appreciate the support!

[@mayo4660]

I am soooo glad that we finally get some clearity. Tho I, same as you, assumed canon, at least in multiverse, til marvel says otherwise, its very nice to know instead of assume.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Well said...I love that Marvel is being more clear about the timeline. It's so helpful!

[@themoosehoof]

I finally watched the first episode of helstrom like a year ago and actually liked it but then I immediately forgot it existed again

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yeah, it's an interesting show, but not overly memorable in the end.

[@dumbguy1007]

Hellstrom would have been a good early taste of the spooky side of the MCU seen in werewolf by night and the doctor strange mystical stuff. No reason to believe these sorts of isolated incedents are happening all the time, with demons and other threats causing trouble. In fact with she hulk particularly is kind of assumed there are super hero shenanigans happening all over almost routinely as opposed to early phases where there were very few enhanced individuals acting publicly. I choose to retcon Nico from runaways cameoing in doctor strange as being infact her mother, as she was a magic user she could have been called in at that time to aid with the dark dimension threat but has her own secret dealings away from the mystic order. Im sure there are plenty of other inconsistencies but part of the fun for me is trying to make them fit.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yeah, it's a bummer we never got to see how Helstrom's story would have played out. There was alot of potential for his character. And I'm with you that I like to try to find a solution to any of the inconsistencies we run into. It's part of the fun of an inter-connected universe!

[@__Soya__]

The Helstrom creators confirmed it’s not MCU canon though.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

​@@__Soya__ Yeah, they definitely seemed to indicate that it isn't canon. They said it was off in its own corner, which could be interpreted different ways. But it does seem it's the least likely to be pulled into the sacred timeline.

[@__Soya__]

@@AbitofEverything4U Have you ever considered doing a timeline with everything connected the the MCU Multiverse?(FoXMen and Spiderverse)

[@AbitofEverything4U]

​@@__Soya__ Yeah, I think that would be cool. It's tricky since they don't seem to give us the exact times that some of the multiversal connections are happening, such as with Toby and Andrew and NWH not telling us at what point in their universes they came from. But I may give it a shot if they give us some firm timeline connections between the X-verse and the MCU in DP 3. Fingers crossed!

[@CameronRye]

i didn't take his comment on Disney plus as the medium for canon as a definitive answer myself. i don't think they would want to drop all these shows into the fold all at once. that may be confusing and overwhelming for them to figure out and for casual fans as well. i took it more of a "watch this space" sort of comment for us to keep an eye on the timeline as a source of info going forward. as with daredevils return lately they would probably want to throw these shows back into the fold at the time if and when their characters become relevant in the mcu again on a case by case basis.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Well said...while I do think he's saying "this is what's official right at this moment" I think he's also clearly shown that more can be added and perhaps we'll see that sooner than later!

[@__Soya__]

I think the only way they’d add the 5 other shows is if there characters become relevant to the greater MCU. (Like how Daredevil appeared in No Way Home, She Hulk, and Echo)

[@AbitofEverything4U]

@@__Soya__ Agreed...that strategy makes alot of sense!

[@lordofninjas1]

I don't think Winderbaum was saying that the Disney Plus timeline is how the Studio is defining the canon, I think that line was more meant as a "it's wild to think about that being what audiences are using to define canon", and I feel that's supported by the line before saying "it's interesting that the service of Disney Plus actually became the statement just by rearranging those tiles", basically taking it as one thought of "it's interesting that us messing with the timeline on there caused fans to use that to say that's our thoughts on the Sacred Timeline canon, it's wild to think about something like that happening like that". I think that's also supported by the statements made before that of "the film people and the show people kept in communication, but we were busy with ending the Infinity Saga, so we couldn't take the time to say anything about the shows being Sacred Timeline canon, but we eventually got to at least a bit of it with the Defenders stuff" basically saying all together "we recently said Defenders Saga stuff was canon, but we've been so busy with everything else and delayed with the strikes and such that we haven't had time to talk about or deal with that beyond that, but it's wild to think that us moving some stuff around on Disney Plus made fans think that was our statement on canonicity". I also don't think it's fair to say "some of what's in the animation section or the one-shots section isn't Sacred Timeline canon, so this entire section can't be or whatever" I see them more not as a statement of canon, but simply "hey, you like our Marvel cartoons? well here's all of them in one section to make it easier on you" or "hey, you like the Inhumans and team shows with Agents in the title and shows about Agents, then you'll like what's in this section" in other words they are being sorted by types of media rather than canonicity of media, if that makes any sense. Also, I heard somewhere that Winderbaum also recently said that they are working on seeing about continuing Agents of Shield like they are continuing Daredevil with Born Again, so they seems to say AoS is still canon as well, and I still believe it is, as well as everything else thought to be (Agent Carter, Inhumans, Cloak & Dagger, and Runaways and debatably Helstrom, and whatever One-Shots or whatever I missed).

[@AbitofEverything4U]

While I respectfully disagree with your perspective, I'm really glad you shared it, as I always like to hear opposing viewpoints. I will say that regardless of which perspective on his statements is correct, I think that we both agree that Winderbaum feels fans view the D+ timeline as canon, so it would behoove Marvel to add the other shows to that timeline if they are considered canon. Otherwise, Marvel is intentionally leaving shows out of the location that they acknowledge fans look at as canon. It would be misleading for Winderbaum to say what he did but still leave Agents of SHIELD (as an example) off of the timeline unless Winderbaum truly felt AoS wasn't canon. Anyway, really do thank you for your feedback. It's always well stated and very respectful. Truly appreciate you support of the channel!

[@lordofninjas1]

@@AbitofEverything4U that's understandable. I do agree that most fans, though not myself personally, view the Disney Plus timeline as Canon. I would suspect the same reason it took them so long with adding the Defenders Saga stuff is the same reason why they haven't done the same with the other shows, simply that they've been busy with shuffling things around and getting things back on track and such, so they haven't had the time to work on doing that. At this point some interviewer should just ask point blank about the other shows like how the Defenders Saga was asked about.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

​@@lordofninjas1 Great idea! And as honest and forthcoming as Winderbaum has been, I suspect he would answer that question. Love that dude!

[@realjohnlove]

6:32 why is Loki S2 so far down the TL if it occurs immediately after Loki S1 & it occurs outside of time? Right now I’m doing my rewatch. I plan on watching Loki S2 after S1 before I get into the rest of Phase 4-5

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Good questions. So, I cover my thoughts on why Loki S2 is so far down in the TL in this vid, if you are interested: kzbin.info/www/bejne/p3SZeYWoq9qLnZo. I also talk about a newly discovered timeline clue that shows why Loki S2 has to be so late in the TL in this vid: kzbin.info/www/bejne/iGnIl6eYgLprrbM. But I totally agree that from a watch order standpoint, it's fun to watch Lok S1 and S2 back to back before the rest of Phase 4-5. You just have to keep in mind the things that I mention in those two vids, as the TL doesn't quite work out if they are watched back to back

[@realjohnlove]

4:39 I give Agent Carter an exception because it really does smoothly fit into the canon with the least continuity errors

[@__Soya__]

Ya I really don’t know why they’ve left it out, they’ve literally kept Agent Carter continuity by having Steve go back in time and be Peggy’s “Mysterious husband”.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yeah, it's so weird that they don't have Agent Carter in the timeline. So I'm assuming it isn't canon in Marvel's viewpoint. But it's very odd.

[@realjohnlove]

@@__Soya__ I still dont think the mysterious husband thing works. And Agents of SHIELD doesnt help because they removed Souza as being her secret husband

[@__Soya__]

@@realjohnlove How does Steve being the mysterious husband not work??

[@realjohnlove]

@@__Soya__ if it happens after the sacred timeline is gonna it would have had to be a branched timeline unless the argument is the ending of Endgame is that branched timeline. It creates a huge time paradox that makes no sense. Steve just lets all that stuff happen & never interferes. Thats a moral complication and its something I hope they never confirm. The directors said Steve lived with Peggy in an alternate timeline & hopped back to the main timeline, the writers say it was the main timeline in a time loop. But it really makes no sense.

[@TheRealstarkHOUTx]

Wasn’t there a big rumor that coulson would be back for secret invasion?

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Not sure about Coulson but I heard alot of chatter about Daisy returning. I hope we do get her return eventually!

[@realjohnlove]

7:54 all they had to do was have the Defenders show up in the Final Endgame battle. Thats it. Hell if just 1 of them had showed up Luke Cage, Daredevil, Jessica Jones, Iron Fist, Punisher that would have been good enough. Seems like some recast were being debated

[@AbitofEverything4U]

I don't disagree...it was very surprising they didn't appear. But then again, Feige wasn't in charge of Marvel TV so I think he (and his team) felt it was risky to have them show up if they weren't working with Marvel TV to ensure everything fit perfectly. We had some big cliff hangers with Luke Cage S2 and Iron Fist S2 (for example) that would have made it tough for them to appear. In fact, Marvel really needs to pay those cliffhangers off now that they are returning. But Daredevil or Jessica Jones would have been nice to have seen in the movies.

[@realjohnlove]

@@AbitofEverything4U I mean you can explain Luke Cage because he basically became the King of Harlem protecting Harlem and being in NYC they could just say Wong recruited him

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Sure, that could definitely work!

[@Celebok]

Really cool news either way! I'm not surprised about all those shows that didn't get included in the sacred timeline, as I've commented before, for example Agents of SHIELD added a LOT of complex stuff to MCU lore that would be a lot harder for future MCU writers to keep track of to avoid contradictions, than the Netflix/Defenders shows that were mostly street-level. Or for all we know, maybe they already have some specific ideas for future projects that would contradict stuff established in AoS, like maybe they're planning Ghost Rider or something with the Chronicoms or the origin of the Inhumans or whatever. Or they already think the Darkhold background story from AoS just doesn't work anymore. Putting Jarvis in Endgame was a cool acknowledgement of the Agent Carter series, but I guess now we just need to consider him a variant. That said, I'd still love it if they did SOME form of branched timeline acknowledgement of AoS itself, like the What If idea I once came up with that would bring back the voice talents of the AoS cast to do an episode called "What If... SHIELD Brought Phil Coulson Back to Life?" and take place in the timeline where AoS ended.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Perfectly stated. Yeah, those are indeed the issues with including those shows in the sacred timeline. I think it would be very cool if they officially acknowledge the shows as branches and then I'd love to see the characters appear in a big team-up like Secret Wars. Would be so cool to see Daisy again, for example.

[@Celebok]

@@AbitofEverything4U YES!

[@AbitofEverything4U]

💯

[@Swenglish]

I think they're just holding off on commitment because scripts can be subject to change. It'll ultimately be up to an agreement between Feige/Winderbaum and writers/directors to decide definitively when those connections are made (i.e. when they bring back a major character from the show), and then we'd see it on the timeline if it still lines up. The one problem is they'd have to break the seasons up into sections for the timeline to work.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Great commentary on the vid...yeah, I think they will wait and see how things pan out in the months to come and thus will take their time with the decisions. And I suspect you are right that they would have to break the seasons up to make them fit in the timeline, but ig they did that with the Netflix shows and that worked out, so it likely will work with the others, if they bring them into canon in the future. Thanks again for all the feedback on the vid. Really appreciate it!

[@Swenglish]

@@AbitofEverything4U Didn't they just split the Netflix shows into seasons? Agents of SHIELD is a bit trickier because of End of the Beginning/Winter Soldier/Turn Turn Turn in particular, which have to be watched in that order to avoid spoilers one way or the other. One solution would be to split seasons 1 and 2 into multiple parts, another would be to put spoiler warnings in front of certain episodes (with convenient shortcuts to the movies). Another would be to have a binge playlist that takes the season and sticks the movies in where they belong. So like, if you click season 1 on the "timeline order", that automatically includes Dark World and Winter Soldier, and if you click season 2, it automatically plays Age of Ultron at the appropriate time. In any case, there's an inherent problem that would require a little bit more effort to solve than just splitting it into seasons.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Ah, I'm following you now. Yeah, the first season of AoS in particular works best if it's watched episode by episode with breaks for the movie cross-overs. Yeah, it would indeed be tricky to include AoS in the timeline. That said, they put Captain Marvel correctly in the 90's in the timeline, even though it has spoilers for Infinity War. Same for Ant-Man & Wasp, even though it also has spoilers for IW. Hmmmm...would be even trickier for AoS, though.

[@Swenglish]

​@@AbitofEverything4U Those are post credit tags, though. And pretty vague out of context (without knowing the snap, the disintegration at the end of AM&tW is just a mystery). AoS very clearly reveals the twist of WS in the main narrative and vice versa (because it's essentially the same twist). Hell, if we're talking ideal viewing order rather than chronological, I'd hold Captain Marvel until after the Kree temple is discovered in AoS (perhaps right before GotG). But that's an advanced approach.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Good point about Captain Marvel. That's not a bad idea for a viewing order.

[@realjohnlove]

9:45 well it confirms 2 things: You were right that they put value in the Disney+ timeline however we know now, Feige isn’t the one dictating it, seems like he’s put this in Windbaum’s hands

[@AbitofEverything4U]

I suspect that Feige is still reviewing everything at a high-level to give his okay, but I agree that Winderbaum is the one digging into the details.

[@Nulono]

That didn't sound like "shows confirmed non-canon" to me; at most, it read as "shows not yet reconfirmed as canon".

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yep, it was definitely a statement that allowed for either a glass half full or glass half empty type of reaction. I look at it as confirmation that if the other shows are canon, they aren't ready to tell us about it, so for me I am considering them branches off 616 for now, but with the strong hopes that Marvel will instead make them part of the timeline in time. Fingers crossed!

[@ChristianDaniels-h4c]

Agents of shield had easter eggs to inhumans and cloak and dagger and runaways have eastereggs to deffenders what is cannon

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yeah, I sure hope Marvel changes course and brings in some of the other pre-Disney+ shows, just like they did with Netflix. There are alot of cool connections between the shows!

[@JasonPtt]

When you say the Defenders are part of the sacred timeline does that always include Punisher?

[@jettstreamyt8177]

yes it’s a direct spin off to daredevil and it’s made by the same studio, Joe should also be reprising his role as Punisher in Born Again

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Great point...I should have clarified that, but yes, Punisher is also sacred timeline canon. Sorry about that confusion.

[@realjohnlove]

4:15 Did it really crossover with Civil War? They mention the Accords & then its like minor. And then with Infinity War we get Thanos reference but how can S6 occur before the snap if Thanos arriving to Earth he immediately snapped half of life?

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Exactly! That's why I didn't show anything from Civil War and Infinity War, as both crossovers were pretty minor and then season 6 went and ignored the snap. Granted it was set a year after season 5, but I still felt it was weird that they never mentioned the snap.

[@Sean-bf3lh]

I was just watching john campea here saying there is a possibility a revival of agents of shield being in theworks ,now if so thwtwould make or possibly making agents of shield sacred timeline canon im hoping , now i have no clue to the validityof this , now what would your thoughts be

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yeah, I've been hearing that rumor and I'd love it if AoS gets a revival. I'm not sure it's going to happen, tbh...but if it did, I'd be down for it!

[@MarvelTemplars]

Okey, now please make a video about chronological viewing order of all marvel tv shows like runaways, aos, helstrom, inhumans, agent carter, iron fist, jessica jones, luke cage, daredevil, punisher, defenders cloak and dagger within the MCU timeline

[@AbitofEverything4U]

I do like the suggestion, but at this point it seems Marvel is just including the Netflix shows in canon, so I'll probably wait for more shows to be placed on the D+ timeline before making a new video. But the googlesheet timeline has all of the shows in order within the overall MCU, so that's good news at least. And hopefully more will get added to the sacred timeline soon!

[@JohnnySensei7]

Agents of Shield WAS canon until they time traveled and created multiple different timelines

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yeah, that's definitely what made the show less likely to be canon in my opinion as well. The last few seasons were alot of fun to watch, but certainly seemed to branch off from the main timeline at that point.

[@julianxamo7835]

It's interesting that's bit arbitrary what multiverse projects appear on the D+ timeline, I mean, What if is in there, but the previous Spider-Man movies aren't, despite the later having had more impact in 616 than the former (at least so far)... Maybe they'll add the other Spidey movie when NWH gets to D+? Maybe they'll also add other X-Men movies once Deadpool does?

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yeah, it is interesting that they have included What If but not the Raimi and Webb movies. I wonder if it's due to the fact that What If is a direct branch off 616 while the Raimi and Webb movies are separate universes with their own unique timelines?

[@Bulky_bish]

This a really solid way to look at it, in my own personal headcanon, agent carter,cloak/dagger and runaways are sacred canon, and inhumans and helstrom arent, (i havent see AoS, so no opinion there)

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yup, I think each fan should decide on their own head canon and that's totally cool. I am very glad that Marvel finally told us their perspective on the timeline, but I love that fans can feel free to form their own timelines as desired.

[@HistorySkate]

I just heard that Deadpool 3 will introduce a new rule/concept (even though it sounds like something we could have foreseen). Basically every universe has a chosen hero. The chosen one. And if that specific person is removed or killed, their whole universe dies. So for example, maybe Toby spiderman is the chosen one from his universe. Maybe his absolute point (canon event) is to defeat kang. But if he does not succeed his whole universe dies. I wonder if that means if the chosen one dies long before they meet kang, would the universe die the moment the chosen one dies. Cuz the canon event of defeating kang cant happen if there’s no chosen one. So would it jump start the incursion? Interesting thought in my opinion. I’ve also heard 616 spidey is the chosen one for his universe. But he technically died in infinity war. But when strange gave away the time stone for Tony’s life, he set them on the future path that would return 616 spidey to life. If he’s the chosen one of 616, it’s like the universe knew he wasn’t dead forever, thus not destroying itself. Cuz he would go on to become the chosen one. Idk. It’s all so mind bending haha

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yeah, I heard those rumors as well and I'm having just as much trouble wrapping my head around things, too. It could explain why Deadpool said he's Marvel Jesus, though. lol!

[@hunterterrell5735]

It would be really interesting to see where they put the Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Seasons at since they go in and out of MCU movies I would preferably group them at the end of each season.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yeah, that's a very good point. The AoS show was awesome due to its many crossovers with the movies, but it would make it very tough to place in the D+ timeline.

[@Marvelord1]

Still hoping in the future they will include Agents of SHIELD and the other shows inside it

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Agreed...If the Netflix shows are any indication, then it's worth holding out hope!

[@roliv16]

I really want another season of MODOK, it needed on such a great cliffhanger, it’s a shame it’ll probably never happen!

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yeah, I was surprised we didn't get another season of that show. Bummer.

[@lucascanedo9376]

You forgot to talk about 2022 Watch Party of Agents of SHIELD organized by Disney+ on Twitter that references MCU Characters, 2021 Marvel Studios: The History of the MCU book confirms Agent Carter like MCU Canon, The "suggestions" of One-Shot Item 47 e Agent Carter includes Agents of SHIELD and Agent Carter shows next to MCU Movies. And The MOST IMPORTANT: The home of Disney+ includes Agents of SHIELD in Nick Fury section and The official site of Marvel includes a passage of Agents of SHIELD S1 in Nick Fury BIO during Secret Invasion transmission. The truth question is: What MCU project will include Agents of SHIELD and Agent Carter in The MCU Timeline AFTER Echo show include ALL The Defenders Saga in MCU Sacred Timeline. I expect that Brad Winderbaum do a revival of Agents of SHIELD after The Interview of Agents of Fandom and makes AoS e AC finnally MCU Canon.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Great examples of more evidence that AoS and AC should be sacred timeline canon. Hopefully Marvel will agree and will add them in. Let's keep showing our support for the series as that's the best way to indicate to Marvel that fans want to see it happen!

[@lucascanedo9376]

@@AbitofEverything4U Exactly, we need to continue support #SaveAgentsOfSHIELD for Brad Winderbaum makes new shows in Marvel Spotlight, like Secret Warriors, Most Wanted and Ghost Rider.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

💯

[@InitialAA]

Daisy absolutely needs to return.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Amen to that...definitely one of my favorite characters from AoS!

[@Poketuber33-e6r]

Daredevil Born Again is literally Daredevil Season 4 just with more MCU connectivity so all Netflix shows are canon it seems, though I don't know how I feel about Iron Fist, hopefully Shang-Chi 2 can fix that. Runaways and Cloak and Dagger were canon according to Kevin Feige, the Darkhold is an interesting situation, Nico Minoru does supposedly train with Doctor Strange, and her mom was in the movie actually just played by a different actress. You add in Randy's Doughnuts and yeah it's probably fine, not sure when they can show up again. Agent Carter has to be canon not just because of Peggy Carter herself but the cameos from mostly canon MCU characters from that time period, Edwin Jarvis is in Endgame too. The other shows Agents of Shield being the saddest (despite Phil Coulson, Sif, and Nick Fury being in it) isn't canon at least the timeline book said so though they did use the time travel from Endgame among other things. The other remaining not Disney+ shows fall under not canon it seems, Black Bolt does appear in Multiverse of Madness but that's the Earth-838 version and honestly is way better and the less we talk about the last pre-Disney+ show the better.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Great feedback on the vid! Yeah, I really do hope they fix up Iron Fist and perhaps Shang Chi will be able to do it. At one point Feige said Runaways and C&D are canon, but since Runaways was removed from Hulu and Disney+ and since C&D is only on Hulu, I don't think they are considered sacred timeline canon any more. They might be a branch, but not canon to the main timeline. Agent Carter's series definitely should be canon, but while it's on D+ it's not on the D+ timeline. I think they are still considering Jarvis from the show to be sacred timeline canon, but the show isn't, even though that's really strange. And I agree, Agents of SHIELD, Inhumans and Helstrom aren't considered sacred timeline canon at this point either. Hoping some of those can get pulled into being sacred timeline canon again. Fingers crossed!

[@WhiteRaven696]

Before starting the video, I would like to firmly state that all six of these are canon in my heart and mind. 😭😭😭

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Amen to that...and I think if we keep pushing, Marvel will see that and will keep pulling in more shows!

[@WhiteRaven696]

@@AbitofEverything4U What’s mind-boggling is Agent Carter. They’ve claimed it as canon before, yet now they’re suddenly saying no? Despite Black Widow incorporating the show’s Red Room training into the movie? It’s so weird.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

ikr? I just don't get that. Agent Carter fits so well into the main MCU canon!

[@WhiteRaven696]

@@AbitofEverything4U According to Twitter today, Disney+ Brazil has actually addressed this! They finally added the Agent Carter series into the MCU listing! But they didn't add it into the timeline.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

It's a start...I'll take any positive steps towards it being added into the timeline as a good thing!

[@ironclover2089]

The only show I still consider canon. Regardless of timelines is Agent Carter, simply because it's in the past, and it's relatively grounded, and there isn't any real reason it shouldn't be.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

I agree...I'm very surprised Agent Carter isn't in the sacred timeline, but it is definitely the most likely to be considered canon. Hopefully that happens at some point in the near future.

[@leonardosantana5636]

how exciting!

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yeah, this announcement is a long time coming. Very exciting! Now we just need to hope Marvel will pull more shows into canon in the future!

[@ArynWellspring]

AOS being canon presents issues right from season 1. Forget the issues it creates with the blip and all that stuff, maybe the time travel can excuse that stuff although I would argue that doesn’t work either. The main thing is that Extremis was a known thing, and known to be dangerous. Meaning that Iron Man 3 happened. Problem is that happens like a year after most of Season 1. The events of Thor: The Dark World happen around the seventh episode of Season 1. According to the timeline Thor: The Dark World happens after IM3. That’s a pretty big issue.

[@ArynWellspring]

My preference is that AOS was never sacred timeline canon and we learn it was an alternative timeline where Coulson survived his stabbing

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yeah, I had the same concerns about IM 3's placement. But the more I think about it, it may actually work better for AoS if IM 3 is placed where it is. I covered that in this short vid, if you are interested: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qJfOnpZsgsuMbK8. That said, I do agree that AoS has alot of issues that makes it hard to be considered sacred timeline canon. My gut feel is that it will remain a branch and that we might get to see the characters again during Secret Wars when everything collapses into one universe.

[@anthonystrader8958]

I am hoping that Agent of Shield does in fact get in the MCU Timeline on Disney plus and should be canon to the MCU Sacred timeline along with cloak/dagger, runaways and agent carter

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yeah, it seems those are the key shows that Marvel may be considering. Will be interesting to see where things go from here and if Marvel pulls more into the timeline!

[@JosephReviewsFilm]

I love Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., I have fond memories watching that show.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yep...such a great show. I enjoyed all 7 seasons. Would be great to see some of the characters returning one day!

[@Brendyn4222]

A couple things, 1, I’d campaign for 4 out of 5 of those shows to be canon. With connections to Avengers, Defenders, and themselves linking together. Only murky one for me being Runaways with a character making a cameo in Doctor Strange. 2, I feel Disney+ and marvel should incorporate those other sections as other timeline. Put them in timeline order, with Sacred Timeline titles coming first. Because, for me, the X-Men section is just so confusing. It goes DP, Logan, First Class the X2… why? It doesn’t give me a reason to go there, ya know?

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yeah, I can definitely see Marvel pulling in more shows in the future...I'd be most worried that Runaways won't make the cut since Marvel removed it from D+ not too long ago. And yeah, I don't get the organization of some of those sections like the Mutans and Fantastic Four. It's definitely just a random arrangement of titles, which is very weird.

[@O777B]

I would love to win one of those books 😍

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Best of luck!

[@bluebellsforever]

Its been 5 months, so has anything changed ? Are agents of shirld, agent carter, the runaways and cloak and dagger canon to sacred timeline now ?

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Unfortunately nothing has changed, but I think as long as fans keep asking, there's always hope. Marvel is definitely aware that there is a strong interest in seeing those series added back to the sacred timeline once again!

[@bluebellsforever]

@@AbitofEverything4U I mean idc care about these shows cuz I haven't even watched them. But from what I can tell, all these shows are very good and definitely should be canon, but runaways final episode and agents of shield s5-7 gets kinda bad and it has time travel that fucks up the timeline so maybe marvel might those non canon.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yep, I think you summed it up really well. All the shows were good and alot of fun to watch, but some have issues, such as the time travel in Runaways and Agents of SHIELD. We'll have to wait and see what Marvel decides to do with them.

[@bluebellsforever]

@@AbitofEverything4U and also inhumans is probably non canon cuz it was bad and ms marvel is a mutant instead of inhuman, which kinda implies inhumans don't exist in the MCU.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yeah, Feige really didn't like that show. I suspect it will remain non-canon for sure.

[@markdarc0448]

I know I'm really late on this video and catching up on marvel stuff but this is really awesome to see. I love more information about whats canon and whats not and I think I have some important points to add. 1. The Disney Plus timeline has been wrong. It is not foolproof, and has had things missing from it, and has had just wrong timeline placements. If they say thats the deciding factor in whats canon and where, cool. But it's not without issues and should be criticized accordingly. If it is wrong, no matter how much marvel looks at it as the definitive source it's still wrong. After all the defenders stuff weren't there before too. 2. This is Brad saying this. Not Feige. That does matter. I love Brad, he's probably one of my favorite people currently at marvel but he's not at the top. Other marvel officials besides Feige have been wrong about canon in the past. For example James Gunn, a very high up marvel employee said quite bluntly that I am Groot isnt canon, and was absolutely wrong. Correct me if im wrong but at the time wasn't I am Groot excluded from the Disney Plus timeline too, until it finished airing its first season? If true thats an example of both the Disney plus timeline and a marvel official stating it's not canon at the time and the official word of canonicity proving both wrong. If we are looking at someone at marvel to confirm canonicity shouldn't the head honcho be the deciding factor? Even still Feige's last statements have been this: kzbin.info/www/bejne/d5zCY5mej7qYZtU this: kzbin.info/www/bejne/sIqze6embdqLZqs Both of which stating they're canon as well as this: "On the Multiverse note, we recognize that there are stories-movies and series-that are canonical to Marvel but that were created by different storytellers during different periods of Marvel’s history." This is absolutely true, and doesn't mean just because it wasn't in the book doesn't mean its not canon as seen by the Defendersverse and a statement I couldn't find basically saying that wandavision was going to be the first show connected to the mcu in this way, or something like that. Which is also absolutely true, while in my opinion canon, none of the other shows connected to the mcu quite like the Disney plus shows did. That doesn't mean they aren't canon. 3. In my mind canon is what the universe says it is. Not a streaming service, not a marvel employee, not a book, but the universe itself. If feige came out tomorrow and said that all of phase 1 wasn't canon, id tell him to his face he's wrong. Many people would take his word as the new canon but personally I won't just throw out fictional material intended to be in a universe because someone says so. This universe has made explicit references to marvel tv repeatedly in movies, in shows, and even in canon books, and tie in comics. To me that overrules whatever Disney plus says and what winderbaum says. I will absolutely lobby for the shows to be considered canon "again" but in my opinion, its not just head canon that these shows are canon when I can look at Age of Ultron, Endgame, The Defenders shows countless references, The Wakanda Files referencing agents of shield, and agents of shield comics being given a literal stamp of canonicity all saying they're canon. If Feige says they're not canon, doesn't phase me, this is too much evidence to discount and more references then some absolutely canon MCU movies get, after all when's the last time iron man 2 got referenced? Sorry for the slight rant, just super passionate about MCU canon

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Awesome feedback! Just a few thoughts: 1. I agree the D+ timeline has been wrong in the past, in particular Black Panther and Shang Chi were incorrect at first. But Marvel also fixed those placements. So I think we can trust the D+ timeline, as it seems that Marvel is watching it closely. Doesn't mean mistakes won't appear, but I suspect Marvel will fix them ASAP if that happens. 2. I had the same concern about Brad Winderbaum being the only one saying the Defenders were canon, but now it seems it's come from many sources and been added to the D+ timeline, so I think we can say for sure that it's canon. 3. I'd love for all the pre-D+ shows to be canon, but I also think that at this point, the D+ timeline and the timeline book are our guides. I agree that I would be very confused if Feige suddenly said Phase 1 wasn't canon, but I also think that won't happen. I think Feige, the timeline keeper (who we now know is named Drew Rivers) and Feige's exec producers are trying their best to keep the timeline and the canon status of the shows straight. So I have alot of faith in them.. All that said, I agree, we need to keep close watch on things and call out errors when they happen. "8 years later" is a great example. But that aside, I am feeling very confident in things at this point. Not sure if you saw my recent vid on that topic, but if not, you can check it out here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/f4TGm6aJeNOlhaM. Thanks as always for the awesome feedback!

[@markdarc0448]

@@AbitofEverything4U totally agree! And I totally understand your position of viewing what seems to be marvels position (at the moment). For me in universe connections are already there and that’s all that matters to me, but I can very much agree to disagree and still love your content. Thanks for taking the time to respond and yes I have seen that video, I’ve seen almost all of them lol just have a few more xmen 97 ones to catch up on

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Love our conversations!

[@markdarc0448]

@@AbitofEverything4U me too!

[@AbitofEverything4U]

💯

[@realjohnlove]

13:32 I can get behind Agent Carter being canon

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Very surprising that Agent Carter isn't canon, tbh.

[@mds_main]

Then let's our voices be heard, let's have those shows be officially canonized! While we are at it, I also hope that they add the shows that are missing from the service (despite their canon status I mean), including the webseries Slingshot and WHIH Newsfront.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Agreed...I think we should keep letting Marvel know how we feel about the shows and hope that eventually they get added. And that's a great point about Slingshot and WHIH Newsfront not being there. I've always thought that was odd.

[@nyanthefatcat1618]

I just don't know what they would do if with ghost rider if AOS was canon. I don't actually know much about agents of shield or the inhumans and that so I'm not sure if it would be like a different ghost rider but I just really want a ghost rider show or movie

[@AbitofEverything4U]

I agree...Ghost Rider is a big open item that Marvel would have to resolve if AoS were pulled into canon.

[@MaxFlame4]

FINALLY !

[@AbitofEverything4U]

ikr? Love it!

[@dylanchristopher119]

Agent Carter is actually part of the Sacred Timeline, it is a part of it on MCU

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Agent Carter does indeed surprise me that it isn't in the D+ timeline. I really hope Marvel adds it to the timeline soon!

[@dylanchristopher119]

@@AbitofEverything4U No No. I'm saying it IS a part of the timeline on D+

[@TheKonradhehe]

@@dylanchristopher119 Where? Can you make a screenshot? I'd love to see that.

[@dylanchristopher119]

@@TheKonradhehe youtube keeps blocking my attempts of posting a link to an imgur with an image of my screenshot

[@AbitofEverything4U]

@@dylanchristopher119 Oh, so you're saying it's in the D+ timeline in some regions? Wild!

[@NetherTamer]

Can't say I've watched any of the TV shows like AoS, Inhumans and Cloak & Dagger, simply cause they've just never interested me much, but I don't think most of them should be canon to the sacred timeline. From what I've heard, Aos and Agent Carter prolly could be canon like the defenders shows and I'd def be open to it but Inhuman, Cloak & Dagger, and the other shows I can't recall the names of don't seem to fit. Once again, I've never actually watched the shows so there may be info I'm missing and if so, I'd love to know.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

I think your commentary is very sound. I'd love for all the shows to be sacred timeline canon, but I think Agent Carter is the most likely, then Agents of SHIELD, and from there it's a toss up whether the others could be canon. Will be interesting to see if Marvel pulls any other shows into canon in the months to come!

[@LeonSchall]

What do you think about the rumours of the last few days that they want to revive AoS? I feel like it could happen (although I might be a bit delusional because I really want to see some of the characters back!)

[@AbitofEverything4U]

I'd love for them to do revive AoS...would be great to see those characters again. But as for the quote about it, it seemed like the answer was more about DD: Born Again rather than AoS, so I don't want to get my hopes up too much at this point. My guess is we might see some of the characters again for Secret Wars, but if we get them sooner than that, it sure would be a welcome surprise!

[@raul88.88]

Cloak & Dagger 🫱🏻‍🫲🏼🍻💯🥂🤌🏻

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Such an awesome show!

[@raul88.88]

@@AbitofEverything4U really hope they re-new it or bring them in new MCU shows. The show does not contradict at all with the canon.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Agreed...it fits into canon very nicely!

[@thezalagar8177]

I think it would be cool if they made Molly Hernandez an X-man or at least tied her in with something mutant-related

[@AbitofEverything4U]

That's a very cool idea...yeah, would be nice to see her return!

[@augustchristiansen1988]

Finaly it is clear what is Canon and what is non Canon

[@AbitofEverything4U]

ikr? So nice to hear it officially laid out like this!

[@aptak7518]

I understand they may not want Agents of SHIELD in canon because it unleashed the Inhumans into the world and marvel's trying to introduce the x-men right now, so many viewers may be confused at the difference between the two (I still don't think that's a good enough reason though), but I see no reason why they can't canonize Agent Carter at the very least since the events of the show don't affect present day at all. I still want a Seaosn 3 really badly or maybe a special presentation to wrap it up. I also don't see how Runaways and Cloak & Dagger would cause any problems if added to canon either. And Helstrom I haven't seen.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yeah, you summed up my thoughts on each show very well. I honestly have no idea why Agent Carter isn't canon and I really, really want a season 3 to wrap up that storyline. Such a good show. Here's hoping we get more of the shows added to canon in the months to come!

[@Lucifer-jj4bh]

I'd say Agents of Shield season 1-4 are canon to the Sacred Timeline. Then, with the time travel into the future branches off. I honestly would say that season 5-7 actually takes place on Earth-838, as that would explain why the Thanos snap didn't happen, as he was killed by the Illuminati. Season 7 time travel basically cements changes to the timeline. Might be a stretch, but that's my headcanon.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yeah, I agree, the earlier seasons of agents of shield fit better into the sacred timeline. I do wonder if the inhuman outbreak is an issue, though, since that was never mentioned in any other MCU entry. And that’s a clever idea to have the remaining seasons of agents of Shield happen on 838!

[@adrianporter5749]

So which show should be next to be integrated? I think it’s going to be either Agents or Runaways. If we are building up the political saga, we need to see the renewed SHIELD/SWORD. Agents getting integrated would automatically bring Agent Carter too. Runaways could be tied to Agatha, and if that comes along then so does Cloak and Dagger.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yeah, my guess would be Agents of SHIELD next and the possibly Runaways due to Agatha's show. However, the fact that Runaways was removed from D+ is a bummer and makes me worried that it may never come back into canon.

[@Wermatre]

The only thing that confuses me is Loki and What If being in the timeline. Of course they have a lot of connections to main MCU but What If is all different universes (however the watcher does say,”in your universe,” meaning.. maybe he’s talking to someone in the main MCU?) anyway in Loki they say the TVA is outside of time. But doesn’t that mean it’s not anywhere in the timeline? I think Loki is important to understand multiverse movies like NWH and MoM but isn’t technically sacred timeline canon..

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yeah, those two series (Loki and What If) are abit of an odd situation. But I think the reason they are shown in the sacred timeline is that Loki spawned from the time heist and the What If episodes are branches from the sacred timeline. So they originated directly from the main MCU. But I do agree, it's still sorta strange.

[@DarthTingleBinks]

If they're not considered canon right now it's probably because they don't know what to do with them, yet. Or they maybe don't want to spoil any reveal, like potentially folding in Runaways and Cloak & Dagger if Elizabeth Hurley shows up in Agatha as Morgan le Fay. Morgan is rumored to show up, and that may be false, but if true, we don't know who's playing the character yet. And they've yet to fully dive into the horror side of Marvel, so the Helstrom characters are kinda just hanging around out there. Regardless, S.H.I.E.L.D., Agent Carter, Cloak & Dagger, and Runaways have pretty clear references to the Marvel Studios stuff, as well as the Netflix stuff. And Helstrom has that reference to the Sokovia Accords (which might actually be around when they removed them, since they're now in the Blip in 2020, and we know they're gone by 2025). Inhumans... I'm fine with that being left out. It's not the worst show ever, but it's still VERY hit and miss, and it's yet another example of Marvel tackling a political storyline and having a villain who is very much correct in their goals but for some reason just shifts into a self absorbed maniac who only cares about himself, or never cared at all about the cause and was just co-opting it for his own benefit. A VERY talented creator could fold it in and do the characters justice and tell a good story even with the problematic nature of what came before, but I just don't see Marvel or Kevin giving the characters the light of day, anymore. But if you bring in the other shows, it presents a unique look on the Blip and just how the randomness of the Snap really functioned, as some cities seem almost completely unaffected, whereas others, like New York City were devastated. Because Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., Runaways, AND Helstrom show mid-Blip events. Most of Runaways season 3, all of S.H.I.E.L.D. s6, and the entirety of the one season of Helstrom. And Runaways is the only one of those that frequently shows the city life of Los Angeles, even if from afar. It's also the ONLY show not currently available to stream on Disney+. Which is weird. But something about the way Brad talked about the Defenders shows being canon makes me think that most of these shows are also canon. He talked about fans wanting to know and that they (Marvel) didn't just assume the shows and characters were canon. Meaning that he and other Marvel executives likely were considering those shows canon but just didn't put much thought into them. He talked about "Saying it out loud" in reference to making the Defenders shows canon, as if they were always canon, but now they're on the D+ timeline. And that makes me think that at least everything but Inhumans is also considered canon by Marvel, and that they just haven't said it out loud, yet.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Very well summarized! I agree 100%. All this means is that as of this instant right now, they are not considered canon, but the reasoning could be that they simply don't want to announce it yet. I think as fans we need to keep talking up the shows in hopes that Marvel sees that we really want them added officially in canon and hopefully it will happen. I mean, they redid the DD: Born Again show after fans showed their desire to have the Netflix shows be canon. So anything's possible. What I liked the most about the interview is we can trust the D+ timeline to be Marvel's official position on canon. ofc it can change, but for now, we know it isn't a random timeline, but is their official answer. And that alone is worth it's weight in gold!

[@ivanagustinortiz5237]

I mean, Anson Mount reprising his role for Doctor Strange 2 is a big deal in saying that, even if Inhumans aren't canon, they could've done a Reed Richards and get a fancast for the role. Or cast someone who could get a big reaction instead of the guy who played Black Bolt on an obscure show that most didn't care to watch or don't know about it's existence. Maybe they were, or still are, planning to bring some of those actors and that cameo was a test. So, that doesn't stop them from making stuff "sacred timeline" canon or MCM canon instead. Edit: what I'm saying is, Black Bolt's appearance is a lot more substancial to Inhumans making it into the main canon than some of the other shows, like Jarvis' cameo on Endgame.

[@DarthTingleBinks]

@@ivanagustinortiz5237 Well, it's not just Jarvis' cameo in Endgame, but also the fact the show is literally about a film character, was basically created because people really liked the One-Shot, and also features yet another character from the films. And one of the other characters, Sousa, appears again in Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. S7, which fully embraces Endgame's time travel mechanics. And S.H.I.E.L.D. in general references the films quite a bit and also have a SHIT TON of characters from the films, most notably obviously being Phil Coulson. Cloak & Dagger is pretty heavily connected to Luke Cage, as both shows reference each other. Cloak & Dagger also has a small nod to Daredevil. Both Cloak and Dagger just show up in Runaways season 3. And then S.H.I.E.L.D. loosely ties into all that stuff by including the Judas bullet in S4, Runaways uses the same Darkhold prop in S3, and several other easter eggs, such as the Watchdogs blackouts being referenced in the Netflix shows, and Daredevil S2 referencing AoS S1 when Lorelei basically seduced and slaughtered a bunch of them in New Mexico (I think it was New Mexico). But those loose connections are done both ways, which pretty firmly ties in S.H.I.E.L.D. with the Netflix shows, Runaways, and Cloak & Dagger. And S.H.I.E.L.D. just kinda bringa along Agent Carter with it. There's also all the stuff about the Darkforce or whatever, that apparently is in Agent Carter, AoS S1, and Cloak and Dagger, but my memory of the shows is pretty fuzzy due to watching them some time ago (specially Agent Carter and the earlier seasons of AoS), so I can't talk much on that. The Black Bolt cameo seemed to me to just be a cameo. Or maybe Anson Mount just liking the character that much, even if the show was bad. But there are VERY loose connections between it and S.H.I.E.L.D. Helstrom is in the worst position, as it exists in a kind of limbo between the MCU, and canceled plans for a Defenders-esque saga on Hulu. But Gabriel Luna's Ghost Rider was supposed to be a part of that, and the show ended on a massive cliffhanger, and Marvel is FINALLY starting to dive into horror. So there's a slim chance it gets included. But all the shows were intended to be in the MCU, and most of them connect together very well. They may have only brought in the Netflix stuff as of now, but I don't think the other shows are far behind.

[@ivanagustinortiz5237]

@@DarthTingleBinks oh I know, I was actually really impressed with how well they connect (mostly from the shows I didn't watch), hopefully Gabriel Luna returns. And the Black Bolt cameo I don't think it's just a cameo, we've been seeing a lot of previous actors reprising their roles (Kelsey Grammer was in a pretty bad X-Men flick after all...), even if Anson Mount really likes the character (he was actually great imo), Kevin Feige and Sarah Finn are who choose the casting. Overall I agree, the shows fit really well with the MCU and the way they're connected is so natural. In all fairness, Marvel TV did a pretty good job all things considered, so hopefully Marvel Studios pick up from where they left off.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

​@@DarthTingleBinks Agreed...lots of huge connections between the shows. It's really quite amazing they pulled it off so well, tbh.

[@InitialAA]

Basically, Canon is whatever fans most want canon to be.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

In the end, yes, I agree...each fan should go with whatever brings them the most joy. That said, it's also helpful to hear Marvel's official stance, so we understand the direction things are headed. But I do think each fan should approach the content as they see fit.

[@vincently1995]

Is that the TV MCU canon?

[@AbitofEverything4U]

That is indeed the topic of the video. Hope it answers all your questions!

[@MarvinPowell1]

The Marvel Cinematic Universe isn't even the "616" timeline; that's for the main comic book continuity. The MCU is in the Earth 199999 timeline. So _they_ don't even know their own continuity! There's no use in expecting Marvel to take this seriously like fans do.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yeah, the 616 vs. 199999 debate will rage on for years, I suspect. I just use 616 since that's what Feige has chosen to use. In fairness, 199999 was thrust open him in a small section buried away in the appendix of the 2008 Handbook to the Marvel Universe and I suspect no one consulted him before using that number. So I suspect he feels no reason to use it. And his explanation for using 616 is that the MCU is the live-action adaptation of the comics and thus there is no chance for a crossover and so using 616 makes sense to Feige. Regardless of the different debates, I just try to stay out of it and use the same number that the MCU uses, since many casual fans don't even know about the debate, tbh. But yeah, I suspect the debate will rage on well past our lifetimes. lol!

[@guessur]

I honestly think it comes down to production value...The Defenders shows had a really high quality of visual style, cinematography, and for the most part the stories were really engaging (even if Finn Jones wasn't the best Iron Fist the show was still somewhat enjoyable). I believe all that made it easy to plug into the Sacred Timeline since it felt of the same caliber. A lot of those ABC shows felt really network-ey & cheap at times (visually & storywise), even though I really enjoyed A.O.S. & Agent Carter (Inhumans was really bad tho). I also feel the very Dawson's Creek level of teenage angst in Runaways and Cloak & Dagger made those not really a good fit either. Helstrom didn't even have the Marvel logo it was so disconnected. Not to mention Feige & team's relationship with the likes of Jeph Loeb and *shudders* Ike Perlmutter probably left a really bad taste in their mouth so they'd rather not even deal with it. I mean...Feige has gone on record to say he'll never work with Joss Whedon again, and that's the guy who pretty much created A.O.S. I'd be shocked if any of those other shows ended up on the Sacred Timeline.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yeah, that's some good commentary on the overall production values. I don't disagree at all with what you said. Granted, I enjoyed all the shows, but I agree that the overall production values on the Netflix shows was top notch. And it shows in the fact that Marvel has been bringing back the Netflix characters for awhile now, starting ofc with Daredevil and Kingpin. So my honest guess is we may not see any other shows brought into the sacred timeline, but that we might see cameos from characters like Daisy during secret wars, when everything starts to collapse together.

[@JohnSmith-jh6ey]

We win either way either more updates come or the whole reason we got that loki variant sitting in that tree (unfortunately not K I S S I N G anyone) at the center of time is so we no longer need a sacred timeline

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Great points!

[@nerd5948]

Interesting video

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Thanks! Yeah, it's great to know that Marvel is officially behind the construction of the D+ timeline and thus we can rely on it as canon!

[@realjohnlove]

9:56 I am one of those people

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Perfectly okay if you still feel that way, but after the timeline book aligning with the D+ timeline and now with Winderbaum's quotes, I fully trust that the D+ timeline matches what Feige and team believe the official timeline to be.

[@realjohnlove]

@@AbitofEverything4U some stuff I still think they’re gonna amend. Disney+ timeline could still change cause even in the book they aren’t clear on when Loki ends

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yep, I think they could always change stuff, but I think they are trying their best to show us the correct timeline. And they are getting alot better at staying on top of it so I think it's very reliable. But just my take on it.

[@DanHosler]

I see Hellstrom, I click

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Niiiiiice! Love it!

[@DanHosler]

@@AbitofEverything4U I just posted a short of Hellstrom and Werewolf by Night It's 60 sec. I'd love your opinion on if these characters are meant to be the same (Ester and Verussa)

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Very cool analysis. With Marvel, anything's possible...since it's all connected!

[@DanHosler]

@@AbitofEverything4U Oh! How does the new Captain America and Black Panther game look to you? I'm very pumped for it and Blade. Marvel has no need to stack 2025 so dang heavy. You'll be so busy next year 😜

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yeah, 2025 looks amazing on all fronts. Great movie line-up, exciting new games, more D+ shows, and hopefully lots more Winderbaum interviews!

[@trevturp6891]

I'm pretty sure The Team Thor and Team Darryl One Shots are part of the sacred timeline.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

As of right now, the Team Thor and Team Darryl one shots are not in the D+ timeline and aren't in the timeline book. I love those shorts, but the biggest issue is that Bruce Banner appeared in them even though he was trapped on Sakaar at the time.

[@trevturp6891]

@@AbitofEverything4U Oh, ok. Sorry. I thought that those shorts would be canon to The MCU, because MCU characters appear in those shorts.

[@trevturp6891]

@@AbitofEverything4U Have you ever considered the possibility that those shorts take place before Avengers 2?

[@AbitofEverything4U]

I did do a timeline for the Team Thor one-shots as an April Fool's joke last year. But even though it was done as abit of a joke, I do still lay out the timeline of how it would work in a different branch of the MCU. The appearance of the Grandmaster also makes it hard to fit into continuity of the main MCU, but it was fun to try to make it all work.

[@trevturp6891]

@@AbitofEverything4U Who's the Grandmaster?

[@woodearthdvd]

Add a white outline for Sacred Timeline Canon shows.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

My apologies for not quite following what you mean. Where are you suggesting I put the while outline? Really appreciate you sharing your thoughts on the vid. Thanks so much!

[@woodearthdvd]

@@AbitofEverything4U For the various thumbnail/graphics of each show. White outline/box for the white color of the sacred timeline.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Ah! Okay, I'm following now!

[@JustJack4268]

I love agents of shield but I view as the longest running what if plot ever.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yeah, I love Agents of SHIELD as well. Such a great storyline. But I do kinda fear it will be considered a What If branch for the MCU. It is seeming more and more unlikely we'll get those characters appearing in the MCU, other than perhaps in Secret Wars as a cameo along with lots of other cameos.

[@Dukestour78]

Wonder if Nedpool cannon

[@AbitofEverything4U]

LOL! Inquiring minds want to know!

[@Dalton_Boardman2000]

I agree with everything but I'm honestly okay with Inhumans not being canon. I'd like that specific property to have a second chance with the characters that doesn't tie into that horrible first attempt.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

I agree...if there was one show I'd prefer to forget, it's the Inhumans. It just didn't work and those characters do indeed deserve a fresh start.

[@Dalton_Boardman2000]

@@AbitofEverything4U It sucks that the reception of that show and the new implementation of mutants is overriding inhumans existence. I really just want the MCU to show off a undoubtedly canon character and say "They are an inhuman that went through terrigenesis". You can have both, comics and cartoons do it no problem.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Well said...there is definitely a path forward and I hope Marvel finds it.

[@joshthaller4754]

MCU should very much have Agent Carter, Agents of Shield and Inhumans as part of the sacred timeline. There were far too many crossovers and references for them not to be part of it

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yep, those are some good candidates for getting added to the sacred timeline. Here's hoping Marvel adds them in the months to come!

[@peterdogpizza7779]

Aos and agent carter are definitely canon they just have to go out and say it, cloak and dagger, runaways and inhumans still have some connections to the mcu but not as many nor as much clear connections as the defenders or aos

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yeah, let's hope that the change of heart towards the Netflix shows will lead to a further change of heart towards the other shows as well!

[@peterdogpizza7779]

@@AbitofEverything4U i’m currently doing a chronological watch of the mcu and have most these shows included, i’m watching aos for the first time and im on s2, i love it so far and hope they officially canonize it

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yeah, it's a great show...I enjoyed all 7 seasons!

[@tak3000]

I think AoS, cloak and dagger, runaways and agent carter should be canon but not inhumans or Helstrom. You want all of them?

[@AbitofEverything4U]

I'm down with whatever Marvel decides in the end, but I do agree that the 4 you mention are the most likely to get added.

[@tak3000]

Do you think the agent Carter show and one shot fit together nicely?

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yes, at first I thought they didn't fit very well, but after I laid out the timeline, I was very impressed by how they meshed so well. If you're interested, I cover the timeline in this vid: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mnLKpZh6rt1pg7c. It also covers Agents of SHIELD and Inhumans, but you can just watch the first part if you just want to see how Agent Carter's One-Shot and the series tie together.

[@tak3000]

@@AbitofEverything4U very nice. I’ll check it out. Thank you sir.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Any time...very glad to help!

[@isaacazocar3155]

It was always clear to me that Marvel Studios and Marvel Television were working simultaneously, not together, but they were all developing things to live in the MCU, always aware of what the other was doing . This to me means Marvel Studios was developing what you call The Main MCU/The Phases, while Marvel Television was developing what I've seen some people call The MCU Periphery, which I think works for what these TV shows provide in the universe. So, before mid-2018, it was never a question of whether they were canon or not - everything definitiely was - but they just weren't going to include everyone from everything in the Endgame to fight in the Battle of Earth (that would've ruined the storyline they were building up to for mere fan service). Now, my issue with the Disney+ Timeline is the fact that I, personally, still don't think they got their dates right, but in regards to having something added there to confirm its canonicity is something I never even thought of. I always thought that adding Agents of SHIELD, Cloak & Dagger and Runaways would be a tough task due to how their seasons spread across months and intertwine with the films and the Defenders shows, so I didn't even think they needed to be added there. Something that tickles me is the "Now" in Brad's line of "That's our medium to define canon now", as the "now" he's referring to definitely means just October 2023-January 2024, and still doesn't mean to me that all the shows need to be re-canonized at this day and time, as they always were in the eyes of Marvel Studios. Anyway, maybe I'm just coping really really hard, but lately the MCU/Disney+ and the "fans" discrediting the Marvel Television series have been pushing me away from being as excited as I was before, but I everytime I watch your videos I really enjoy them and your excitement spreads to me!

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Excellent feedback! Yeah, my take on this is that if the Defenders shows were clearly not on Marvel's radar...even to the point that they were making DD: Born Again a complete reboot...but then due to fan outcry they are redoing DD: Born Again and making the Netflix shows canon...sooooo, it shows fans have power. We definitely won on the Defenders shows. Now, the question is if we can get some more wins. I do think Marvel (for the time being) is considering only the Netflix shows canon and nothing else. But it could be they are just waiting to decide what to do with the other shows. So let's hope we can get more victories and pulled more into canon!

[@MatthewK122]

Hope agent of sheild return to mcu

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yep...I suspect that's the one at the top of everyone's list. Fingers crossed!

[@realjohnlove]

3:45 I’ve said before, this book came out too early & they should’ve waited. They could’ve created this book more for themselves but they decided they needed merchandising. I’m glad I found a free pdf of it.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

I suspect there's never a good time to release a timeline book, tbh. Personally, I'm so glad we got it so that the endless debates on the Phase 4 placements could come to an end. Halleluiah!

[@the-w1d]

Didn't the Russo brothers, while directing endgame, say that out of the shows that were made, the only one that was considered canon, internally, to the studio was agent carter? I mean Kevin Feige did work on that show, and it can be watched on it's own without the other pre-Disney+ shows, despite the AoS crossover, so I could see that one getting pulled in soon.

[@InitialAA]

Feige most likely still considers AC as canon. But to be fair, Agent Carter being canon implies Shield is also canon.

[@ivanagustinortiz5237]

I think that one kinda contradicts everything because of Endgame and what everyone thinks of Cap's ending. Jarvis appears, but Steve going back to live with Peggy either de-canonizes, retroactively ruins Agent Carter's plot in letting Steve go, or just puts Cap and Past Peggy on a branch.

[@the-w1d]

@@InitialAA I would say AoS needs AC, but AC doesn't need AoS.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

I think you nailed it when you said AoS needs AC, but AC doesn't need AoS. And I'm so surprised AC isn't canon. But maybe it will get pulled in eventually.

[@the-w1d]

@AbitofEverything4U Would love a season 3 to resolve that cliffhanger!

[@dannyorange9023]

It's not a bad thing that some shows aren't cannon.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

I agree...the shows will always be part of the overall MCU, even if they aren't part of the main timeline. AoS will hold a special place in my heart regardless of what Marvel chooses to do with it. Very well said!