Marvel is Coming to Magic | MTGGoldfish Podcast

[@jrightly]

This feels like an established band started doing nothing but covers. Then at concerts half the audience is there for the covers the other half is for the old songs and neither side understand or likes each other

[@jlbrooks74]

Great analogy honestly

[@thesamuraiman]

Damn, you hit the mark, perfectly

[@Tater8q3f]

Did we just get Weezer'd?

[@jrightly]

say it ain't so@@Tater8q3f

[@pistolpete7422]

Oh and the tickets are double the price now 🫡

[@jetvoidweller]

I really think they need to slow down with the universes beyond. You can only do so many before you run out of other big ips. Do like 1 or 2 a year. At this rate itll be like 12 a year

[@thesamuraiman]

Yeah, we're already at 5 in 2023, I think. I really hope it slows down. It's gonna lose its novelty really fast, and then they'll just be the card game that used to do crossovers, and no one cares anymore. Feels like they're just riding the hype for as fast and long as possible to me, but I could be wrong. Maybe they have some master plan.

[@Hurtishappy]

They can just repeat. They’ll do more lotr before the end of the decade

[@kal2489]

Lord of the Rings is my all time favourite setting, I grew up with it, seeing it put onto magic cards was awesome. Would I trade that for a world where there wasn't any universe's beyond at all and it was all magic? In a heartbeat.

[@omahonda]

Agreed, Magic is losing its identity for short term gains.

[@thatepicwizardguy]

Yup. I agreed with the prof when he talked about universes beyond originally and it feels like MTG is less and less itself.

[@Shimatzu95]

Lets be honest, we probably wont get to 40th anniversity. The game will be dead by then.

[@BertockLeg]

​@@Shimatzu95I highly doubt it. I believe it would be very hard for magic to die as a game. It is most likely that it will just became the cardgame equivalent of fortnite. And for some that may be a fate worse than death

[@Shimatzu95]

@@BertockLeg well in my eyes its alredy on lifesupport considering we seem to get more Universe Beyond sets than actual magic centric ones in the future.

[@КириллСавенков-о2е]

Ah yes, Funkopop The Gathering, my favorite card game, with Crim as their target audience, what a time to be alive

[@Damzified]

First time I listen to this podcast and I don't know the aforementioned Crim, but I expected them to at least have some reservations about this crossover for kids. Seeing his reaction, it hit me harder than ever before how far I am from being the target audience...

[@MattM-wo4wu]

Funkopop is the truest comparison ever. SAD.

[@TheGtDragoon]

Crim be the kind of guy to set fire to his barn and say yea its all good the river is over there, the barn will walk to it and put itself out. I think this move will be the last of magic’s soul greedily sucked away.

[@thesamuraiman]

The only reason I hate Universes Beyond is all the resources it takes away from the main MTG IP. I agree with Richard. I can see it slowly just getting phased out because money.

[@ilyafoskin]

Exactly. They're slowly making Magic an IP crossover game. It feels like the Universes Beyond products are quickly reaching parity in focus with the main products. For UB, they don't have to focus resources on set concept creation like planes or characters. They just have to make a list of characters to get art commissioned and contract some experts in those IPs to make sure the effects match flavour. If Hasbro put pressure on WotC to retire draft boosters due to sales, I can see a future where they also put pressure on them to retire the main story because random UB stuff sells better in the short term. A perfect example of the shift in priority is in this video. Look how the first energy commander was made for Universes Beyond and not traditional Magic. They are wasting design space on non-Magic cards

[@evaman0182]

i don't think Wizards shelled out nearly as much money as you guys think for this license. Hasbro has had the rights to produce both Marvel AND Star wars toys. this is essentially two different parents, Hasbro and Disney, setting up a play date for their kids, Wizards and Marvel

[@Sinistra359]

Despite that, since it's a multi-year deal they probably paid the same or even more in my opinion. But who really knows.

[@sandvich87]

😊

[@bahablastfreeze8872]

“Alright Cloud is blocking Hulk, but don’t forget he’s equipped with Ezio’s Wrist Blades”

[@tankdempsey1818]

Before damage, I crew my TARDIS. Then because I control Gandalf the White I can flash in a Supply Llama, reducing the cost of artifacts, so I can flash in Nuka-Cola Vending Machine

[@Botanick13]

If you wait like year you could crew it with Dominic Toretto, every creature in your deck is now family member in addition to their its other types. Family members are indestructible and can be cast from GY as if they had flash @@tankdempsey1818

[@TastySnackies]

"In response, I'll activate my Nuka Cola Vending Machine, which triggers my Marneus Calgar. After effects resolve, I'll tap my The One Ring to draw eighteen cards. Holding priority, I'll flash Dustin, Gadget Genius in thanks to my Sally Sparrow, which triggers my Sarah Jane Smith."

[@sirKonradical]

As opposed to "Asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar is equipped with hot soup"?

[@bahablastfreeze8872]

@@sirKonradical just have a laugh friend, u gotta admit how clown shoes the situation is whether you’re a fan or not.

[@_claymore]

Crim trying to justify that Doc. Who fits into the MtG universe and that it feels "magic-y" is such a massive reach and absolutely baffling.

[@JStack]

22:25 I now realize my core point of contention with Crim is that he's a Disney Adult wearing a misfits shirt lmao

[@xaxscratchxax926]

Disney adults are kinda cringe. Only way I can justify, is if they have a lot kids.

[@efnfen]

Crim is extremely cringe so it fits@@xaxscratchxax926

[@TheAsianAvenger69]

It’s true. It’s soooo cringe when somebody enjoys things and doesn’t have being miserable as their only hobby.

[@efnfen]

Nah it's that thing where you say the opposite thing and thinking it's like quirky and hilarious or something as a schtick. Liking things has nothing to do with it @TheAsianAvenger69

[@Spaced92]

I would have more sympathy towards this complaint if we weren't all adults spending ludicrous amounts of money on card games. Well I quit MtG but still.

[@Megamaduo]

I generally like UB products but Richard is right that Magic does need to reinvest in their own IP. I don't think sets on magic planes are ever going away or any of those chicken little things but Magic's IP had no footprint even before UB. The best thing they can do is call these deals in the other direction. Make the netflix show, make the anime, make more IHOP and hot pocket deals until normal people talk about Jace like they do about One Piece now.

[@three-apples]

Marvel MTG will sell like hotcakes, but at the same time it's not hard to forget that 15 years of MCU dominance did literally nothing for the comics market. At the end of the day for people outside of the existing MTG playerbase, the casual crowd will just pick up whatever speciality MTG product as if it was something like a funko.

[@YoungLiam74]

The thing is what magic has always needed is a way to lure you in. Once they have you its for good. And thats whats happening here, a metric fuck ton of people are going to be introduced to magic in this way and will get hooked off of it. It will be a massive boon for the game in terms of player count. That will come with a bunch of downsides too, but it's a lot different than the comics.

[@MakeVarahHappen]

I'm 25 seconds in and I sure can't wait for Richard or Crim to shit on magic lore after explicitly admitting they have never wanted to follow it. Edit: 37:10 fucken knew it. Crim, you were literally in an MtG visual novel, how can you say they never tried?

[@thatepicwizardguy]

it's crim.

[@TheAsianAvenger69]

One set doesn’t make the story good. Most of the stories in MTG are just ok at best. I choose not to follow it anymore because I’ve tried numerous times before. I also read the mtg comics so it’s not for a lack of trying

[@TheAsianAvenger69]

@@thatepicwizardguy it is me. Thanks for acknowledging

[@MakeVarahHappen]

@@thatepicwizardguy Y'all gotta stop hating on Crim for every little thing. It's just embarrassing.

[@MakeVarahHappen]

@@SpüderQueen I feel like you're just regurgitating the talking points people have had for forever. They moved away from gatewatch based stories for like nearly 5 years now. Like bro update your copypasta, Nissa and Chandra had been together for a while.

[@vladplasmius2854]

This is the biggest step toward Magic becoming an empty vessel for other IPs.

[@PreviewAvailable]

I thought there was still time. But this is really sealing the deal for me.

[@Shimatzu95]

Now more than ever i think we need a seperate banlists just to keep this nonsence out (mostly talking about commander).

[@Crunchatize_Me_Senpai]

I mean, UB was the biggest step. They have professional marketing teams that knew from the start that UB would be a huge financial success. As soon as they made the decision to make those Godzilla alters in Ikoria, even before UB, it was set in stone.

[@vladplasmius2854]

@@Shimatzu95 as much as I hate this, I'm not about to engage in that kind of gatekeeping.

[@nickkubik3134]

Richard: "2023 .... What was the new mechanic?" How about a new card type: Battles. Battles would have been the headliner in years prior. After UB it probably won't get an asterisk in 2023.

[@tellable9425]

Crim actually soyjacking is kind of hilarious. And yeah I really really hate this direction. The original Star Wars films are maybe my favourite thing ever. But I'll sooner eat my cards than ever buying secret lair Luke Skywalker

[@xaxscratchxax926]

To each their own. I collected the star wars tcg from decipher like 25 years ago and would be quite happy to see Son of Skywalker in MTG.

[@adameschete9165]

I collected the decipher game too! And about a year ago I sold my emporer palpatine on ebay. The proceeds became MtG cards😬

[@jacobalbert2603]

I normally think Crim is a voice if reason on the show, but when it comes to the Marvel news i feel like he was letting his love for marvel prevent him from viewing anything around it objectively. The threat that we lose magic IPs entirely to UB titles us real and eventually a net negative for the game.

[@T_Peazy]

Richard is such a wonderful and involved father. He even knows Crim hates Spiderman. Lol

[@sapphicvalkyrja]

I've had Marvel fatigue for several years now, and I don't particularly like Universes Beyond, so...I can't say I'm excited about Marvel cards. I definitely fear the future where Magic: the Gathering itself isn't really the game, the Universes Beyond cards are. Like yeah, WotC's never leveraged the IP into some sort of super-brand, but the settings and characters of that IP are a huge part of why I fell in love with the game, and I really hope we're not taking steps toward a future where that's not really what Magic is *about* anymore

[@JonathanPetzold-u4r]

K, bye..

[@jamescobblepot4744]

@@JonathanPetzold-u4r I'm gonna connnnnnnsuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuumeeeeee

[@clintbonds4770]

the MTG Goldfish crew is great, and the insights are always awesome, but it does show in a kind of glaring way that there isn't someone on team that is really into limited and draft. Where I'm at, FNM is usually draft and usually fires, and I think limited is still a big part of the paper community.

[@justdomino1513]

This is officially the end it was an honor to play with u gents

[@JonathanPetzold-u4r]

K, bye..

[@jamescobblepot4744]

@@JonathanPetzold-u4r I'm still connsuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuming

[@AdamKeeton]

Obviously this information is still new and raw, but my initial take has been: this is the thing that actually, finally gets me out of Magic for good.... And that legitimately breaks my heart.... 😢

[@jamescobblepot4744]

Yeah, if you're actually a fan of magic it's pretty hard to see this as a good thing. It's literally just less magic more random crap. At this point I'm just selling everything besides a few EDH decks. All of which are built with older cards purely for casual tables and casual games with people I know. I won't be buying anything at all in the future and I have 0 interest in playing any kind of structured formats or tournaments. It's sad too but there's no reversing something like this

[@AdamKeeton]

@@jamescobblepot4744 Exactly same for me. I've been slowly getting rid of decks and cards to minimize, now I'm all-in on keeping only a few decks, then sell everything else

[@ConfessionGang]

Me and a few friends plan to jump over to the new Sorcery contested realms TCG

[@manuelwiebe4709]

I'm continuously amazed how much commander drives this game. As a competitive player, both limited and constructed, this does nothing for me. But I think im in the minority on this...

[@Blacksunstoneful]

It's where the money is Tournament grinders don't buy precons, go to pre-release, buy by the box... they just buy singles and grind RCQ's and that's all secondary market; printing 1 mana lightning bolts dont sell boxes, 6 mana 4 color legendaries do

[@KerDogg]

I got into magic for commander. Still love playing it the most (I think) but pauper has stolen my heart. Something about sitting down and just trying to win makes it almost easier. With all these "commander" products though makes me less interested. I don't want to have to update my deck every few months just to play with friends and not feel behind. I wish there were more pauper events so I could get more of my competitive fix in.

[@matthewcarlson2747]

It’s just the reverse of what has been true since I started playing mtg. In 2001 the landscape was dominated by competitive magic and all the kids wanted to be the next PTQ finalist. They told all the “Timmy’s” to go home if the wanted to play, craw wurm. Now all the “Timmy’s” found a legitimate format that promotes the battle cruiser gameplay they have always wanted and they are the dominant player base in the game. I played competitive because, if I didn’t, I couldn’t play. I’ve always had a little “Timmy” hiding, deep down. I think that’s true for a lot of players who used to play competitive. It’s also just the flavor of the day, and that flavor will change again.

[@yarrrthekraken]

Crim, read the room. There are a massive amount of people who are devastated by this Marvel news. It’s good that you’re excited, but for a lot of us this feels like the death knell for Magic as its own unique IP.

[@ChaosHedgehog2]

There was a time I would have been ok with the Marvel crossover. Unfortunately now it just doesn't sit right with me. I think it is a mix of Marvel fatigue, Universes Beyond fatigue, and a general worry that this is going to open a box we won't be able to close. Sure, you could say we are well past that point already. As much as I loved the Lord of the Rings set and the Godzilla crossover, I really wish Universes Beyond was limited to only a few cards at most. I foresee this initial set as a big Marvel crossover set that then opens the path for specific series like X-Men or Spiderman getting their own set. More than ever before I feel worried about Magic's identity in the near future.

[@KerDogg]

As a relatively new magic player and someone who stared in commander and now loves pauper I wish they did more in universe sets. The lore is one of the reasons I fell in love with it. I love Marvel but if I wanted to play it I'd play snap. Where are all the cool monsters at?? Lotr felt more magic than Marvel will I think.

[@PreviewAvailable]

this may surprise you but magic has a lore of its own. But it doesn't matter anymore. You will soon get your wish.

[@atk9989]

​@@PreviewAvailableyou are commenting the opposite of what they said. They said they do like the magic lore and dont like universes beyond.

[@KerDogg]

Mahalo, didn't want to have to restate what I said. @@atk9989

[@alvinmercado6305]

You and the rest of the funko pop army are gonna enjoy the future of magic I guess

[@KerDogg]

@@alvinmercado6305 I can tell you read the first sentence and made your comment. Typical person not reading or listening to everything before thinking of a response and ignoring what they didn't read or hear. Smh

[@gkeuler]

*2018: Hasbro Announces WOTC Must Double Revenue in the next 5 years* *2019:* Modern Horizons radical set kills modern, Thrones of eldraine does the same shortly after killing standard, *2020:* Set Boosters arrive killing draft boosters, all the resources being pushed to the best selling format commander makes sense as well

[@jrandoskeet]

Right on time. Once everyone is absolutely sick of super hero garbage.

[@jesperwinther518]

Probably cheaper during this period too - with all of the gender politics influencing Disney too. 😅 But thats another topic.

[@BertockLeg]

​@@jesperwinther518... what?

[@jesperwinther518]

@@BertockLeg the main comment hinted at a period and I responded to it. But it felt 'too off topic' to unravel in an MTG-video. So I "closed it".

[@JonathanPetzold-u4r]

Everyone is absolutely sick of your garbage too.. get over yourself.

[@garrett1433]

You say superhero garbage, but like The Boys tho lol😂

[@XUnsafeNormalX]

Crim is such a good little consumer

[@Akagami_98]

Crim will literally buy anything like a good little marvel fanboy.

[@michaelcollins4534]

How dare he like thing 😂

[@TheWickedWeenie]

lmao

[@PreviewAvailable]

I know. chhhhhriiiiiiiiiist

[@thatepicwizardguy]

@@michaelcollins4534 there's liking something and then there's being insanely biased toward something.

[@ToadManJon11]

It's really sad that magic is becoming more profitable as a licensing product, rather then an actual game with its own cool internal plots and story. Just slap another random product on the system, and maybe make a couple of the cards broken so the people that actually enjoy playing the game will buy the product.

[@surfinggarchomp2820]

I think the game is what lets it sell though. People buy the cards to play with them.

[@ToadManJon11]

@@surfinggarchomp2820 eh I think there's a substantial amount of people that buy universes beyond just to collect. Also even though it is a card game, I think you do lose something diluting the flavor of the game pieces with licenced products. I think for some players you break suspension of disbelief. The game is becoming more a generic product that appeals to more people, but is beloved by less.

[@ammonaustin9081]

​@@ToadManJon11 Yup, you explained it the best. MtG is more marketable to the average person but none of those players actually love Magic. This game is turning into a sad, dying husk of its former self that services the Timmy

[@sirKonradical]

It feels almost like this is what the card game was supposed to be in the first place. Deck master

[@LedPESRule]

Couldn't care less, I'll die on the "universes beyond is bad" hill no matter how much I like the IP that Magic is whoring out for.

[@Arkouchie]

They've done *really* well with the commander decks and the LOTR set; I get the bad taste from the Secret Lairs, and I will not defend those, but the universes beyond products that came after they stopped doing secret lairs are like, *genuinely* good, and if you're depriving yourself of those, you're missing out.

[@xaxscratchxax926]

Love my Necron 40k deck!

[@JacobBos1988]

I love Jurassic Park. My mother died when i was 6. One of the few Memories i have of her is of going to see Jurassic Park and playing with the toys. I even got a Jurassic Park tattoo. I will never touch a Jurassic Park MtG card....

[@JonathanPetzold-u4r]

Rest in peace. Nobody will miss you.

[@AkiVainio]

So, Crim is the problem. If you just go wild for everything because they are somehow linked to an IP, you are letting the owners know that they can throw anything out and you will buy it. This is the reason why Marvel movies have become so generic and why Star Wars movies kind of suck. They don't feel they have to try, when there's an audience, which is not going to be critical in any way.

[@Spaced92]

It's hardly individuals fault, everything turns out that way because they become too big. Have you quit everything popular, and Magic too?

[@atk9989]

​@@Spaced92the last movie i watched was endgame. Since then iv not seen any new movies. And i buy proxies for magic i buy a ton of boxes sleeves and snacks at my LGS like $30-50 everyweek. But yea i dont pay for the "popular " things and have done the closest thing to actually quiting magic.

[@Wyrm7774]

So its crims fault for being happy with things?

[@efnfen]

The people that will just go WOOO HOO SPIDERMANS when the thing you actually wanted gets replaced with just more marvel slop

[@ammonaustin9081]

@@Wyrm7774 it's people like crim AKA mindless eaters fault. Because when companies know there are mindless eaters to depend on & can feed those drones anything for profit, it makes the entire costumer base suffer

[@MrBearsmithy]

Funkopop the card game goin strong!

[@Shimatzu95]

Free spells are a desing mistake for ALL formats not named vintage or legacy. And yes i am including commander, the commander based free spell cycle was unnecessary.

[@Welverin]

I'm not sure if this is the right one, but Marvel didn't 'almost' go bankrupt, they did go bankrupt. It's why the movie rights for their characters are spread out Hollywood. They had to sell them off when they were suffering financially.

[@Ekke-MarkusMuttika]

To add to the discussion of SNAP and MtG. They share developers. Glenn Jones is a principle game designer for Magic at Wizards and is also a game designer on Marvel Snap.

[@lanevisual]

Intresting. Some get very happy for that. I am getting kind of sad. Don't wanna ruin your excitement, thou. Feels like this ist the end of Magic as we know it.

[@JStack]

They can't create their own good lore or products or anymore so they license through others. The game is dead, the cardboard is not

[@efnfen]

"If you don't consider price play boosters are 100 percent a good thing for draft players." And if you don't count the heart failure my dad would be the healthiest person I know. Thanks Crim, always valuable input

[@TheVerifiquitas]

interesting thought just crossed through this morning. when i opened my store years ago, my whole goal was to be a diverse place where sll the different nerdy groups could come together and find things they liked and over time could share with others who werent ever ecpecting to be interested in that thing. for example the manga readers finding magic, the magic players trying biard games. the warhammer player's trying comics etc etc. fast forward a few years i sell magic, out of no where to fans of TV Comic IP like walking dead, then hardcore DND folks with AFR, this summer we sold magic to literature and movie bufffs alike who loved LOTR and now they all play commander and draft. i have current customers literally waiting to jump in to magic once fallout and final fantasy come out. maybe they are bringing in new at the expense of the enfranchised.. maybe they are killing the old lore, but i wont deny how awesome it is seeing a Dad or Mom who played magic back in the day get back into it because their kid saw that my little pony secret lair or and suddenly they are at my store buying stuff with the kids and sharing cards and experiences together

[@TheVerifiquitas]

that being said I'm so tired of hype trainenomics and it's making running an LGS all the more painful financially

[@mickeysmagic89]

This Marvel UB is my worst nightmare that I hoped would never come to pass. They put mint in my peanut butter

[@LanceTuckerAPD]

36:10 Richard for President of WOTC! Make the money from these UB sets, funnel it back into Magic IP! A Netflix series on Magic could have Arcane level success and impact, much richer storyline too. Just 3 min cinematic trailers alone make us all go nuts, let alone 30min episodes

[@Zanzibawrr]

I think the biggest lie we’ve been conned to believe is that magic needed UB to grow. Baldur’s gate 3 was the biggest surprise of this year, and elden ring was the same the year before. Both are proof that supposedly “niche” products can reach huge audiences if you actually try.

[@yannickweiler7033]

I started watching your Podcast the first time i get COVID in 2020. Now i have COVID again and watching your Podcast and didn't miss a single Episode in the meantime. Keep Up the good Work👌

[@xaxscratchxax926]

Feel better dude

[@TheAsianAvenger69]

Get well soon!! Thanks for tuning in 😁😁

[@MTGGoldfishPodcast]

Ugh, feel better!

[@masontheartist]

Richard fully addressed my concerns about Magic's IP. It's sad that at every turn, Magic has kinda fumbled it's IP, even alienating huge creators like Brandon Sanderson, who possibly wrote Magic's greatest Novella, with their greed...

[@blue9393]

I am really surprised yall only have one person that really enjoys mtg lore (Tomer). All of my friends love magics IP and its lore. I think literally everyone I play with at my LGS loves mtg lore and story and desperately wishes wizards would dedicate more time to making their story better like it once was. mtg has amazing potential with its story. I am most excited for the upcoming magic sets not universes beyond. I'm glad other fans have a reason to check out magic but I am excited for magics story. It has unique lore history and rules and I really think they could do outstanding things with it if they invested in it. But seriously I see so much love for mtg specific lore, I really don't understand why wizards doesn't see it.

[@bennettwadekamper8238]

What's the best way to even learn Magic Lore? I've been playing for only a couple of years and don't get a good grasp of the story just from card releases.

[@pippochiri4547]

​@@bennettwadekamper8238reading the published story, listening to video/podcasts explaining it

[@astrowerm]

I watched Magic Historians' video before this. He said they said they would still be developing their storyline again with actual writing and not just articles now. So hopefully, they put an effort in to still develop their i.p. further.

[@40kfanatics]

unrelated to that point, how does ANYONE have the energy to watch that guy both his thumbnails and general personality in those videos are EXHAUSTING

[@astrowerm]

@@40kfanatics lol cause I like him as a person. His livestreams are some of the funniest on yt

[@ammonaustin9081]

@@40kfanatics magic historian is a cool dude. Can't relate

[@windwaker01]

​@@40kfanaticssounds like a you problem

[@thomasalford8908]

I think the point about Magic’s IP is a very relevant one. I don’t know why they don’t just lean into more of the Wizard of the coast IP such as Forgotten Realms, DragonLance etc. Why not boost those characters to help sell your D&D novels movies etc!

[@sharks4cheap]

I'm glad Crim is excited, I really am. But I am on Richard's side when it comes to UB cheapening the Magic IP. To try and explain to Crim: You liked Arcane right? A lot of people did. A lot of people (me included) love the lore Riot has created as LoL has grown. What if Master Chief showed up in the second episode? Cait and Jayce had to fight Shrek? The extra IPs are completely immersion breaking and take away from existing characters that people love. Why even have Mundo if you can license the Hulk? Would a show like Arcane even be possible if League had gone this route years ago?

[@magnusprime962]

That’s an apples and oranges comparison because Arcane is a story-driven show whereas Magic is a game that happens to have a story. And frankly, if the story of Magic was worth such reverence we would already have shows and movies about it. The lore has a lot of great concepts, but great concepts aren’t enough to make a great story. The closest we’ve gotten is the Brothers’ War, and that’s not enough to hang a franchise on

[@AnAlienLifeform]

Yeah, Crim can say what he wants, but LOTR still feels more special to to me. Marvel is definitely bigger and probably a better match for the current state of magic. Bloated corporate products churned out at a staggering rate, choking out the people who were once fans and even outpacing the interest of casuals. I hope that at the very least the speed at which they are cranking out the UB sets and products they can use that as an excuse to go back to blocks or two set releases and focus on building their own universe. Fat chance of that though.

[@Shimatzu95]

Better match? No Bigger cashgrab? Yes

[@Theanthill216]

I have 5 lgs within an hour distance from me; 2 of which are pretty solid and the others being less good for various reasons. I personally talked with one of the lgs managers and he said draft is already 3 each of $5 packs with the other $5 going to prize support making draft $20. Once play boosters come, cost will be $6 if not $7 per pack at that store making draft $25 with prize support and prerelease going up to $40 when it was $25 last year (mind you they are over $1 more than the other shops on packs in general).

[@chillingfrog2670]

Magic has turned into the Funko Pop of card games

[@Nathanael_Forlorn]

I am honestly fine with universes beyond! I don't care for most any of them, personally, but I think it's a good idea. Just don't let it become the default, instead keep it a side product. Keep the planes the main story to tell. And tell that story better.

[@oDMACo]

The thing with draft is my local game store consistently pulls in the largest numbers got sealed and draft nights. From a card collecting perspective it feels like the best way to get the cards you want from a set whilst still playing.

[@vulcanh254]

I also predicted this at the beginning of modern horizons 1. The big issue is that MH2 had to outdo MH1 and now MH3 has to outdo MH2. They have to hype people up for new MH3 cards in order to sell the set. They literally can't tone down the powercreep. With standard they can have underpowered sets but with MH3 there's an expectation now that the cards need to create a big shake up. And the easy way to do this is taking old staples and powercreeping them. Soon they'll have a 2/2 birds of paradise and a bolt that does 4 damage for 1 mana. There's seemingly no way out of MH being toxic for the format.

[@jasonescalante3731]

Captain America URW Legendary Creature - Human Soldier Vigilance, banding Team Leader - Whenever a creature you control attacks or blocks Scry 2. 2/5

[@mikep8981]

My question, if the answer is out there, do the universe beyonds increase player base or just sales? Like I’m the 20 year retrospective are there more magic players or more people buying product? I know Pokémon has a player base now, but I knew more people who collected than played. It seems like that’s where this is going. Pro tour went away, no more GPs. Will we just be collecting?

[@ethanglaeser9239]

In terms of a "Magic show", people will watch it if it is good. The IP isn't super relevant, the show just needs to be good. I have never played League of Legends, and I don't plan to. But Arcane freaking slapped. That show is sooooo good and I will recommend it and watch it over and over because it is good. I would watch and love a Jace and Vraska buddy cop anime, or whatever the crap they make, if the show is good. Crossovers only work if the resulting product is a good one.

[@thatepicwizardguy]

WotC have shown the only thing they can do well and not even all the time is make the MTG and D&D content. D&D has gotten worse and worse over time and MTG is rapidly moving away from what it's successfully been for 3 decades. They're idiots and I have zero faith that they'd make a successful show or movie. Riot has WAY more talent than Wizards ever did, and to be fair they probably have the most talent and vision of all the big game companies but Wizards isn't even in the top 10.

[@TastySnackies]

Lorcana: "I am...inevitable" MTG: "I have Universes Beyond licensing money"

[@MakeVarahHappen]

I don't understand why anyone would think Marvel would be in Lorcana. It was incredibly obvious it was for the typical Disney properties.

[@gregorycafiero9688]

It's still lending out something they have control of to a direct competitor. Even if they don't plan on using the IPs, it's making magic more appealing

[@MakeVarahHappen]

@@gregorycafiero9688 I don't think Magic's Target demographic over Lorcana's that much.

[@rlxLando]

@@gregorycafiero9688 I think Disney is smart enough to know, that it makes MTG less appealing.

[@gregorycafiero9688]

@@rlxLando it really doesn't and honestly doomer magic players are more obnoxious than UB ever will be.

[@Theanthill216]

We need a puppy cam for the sleepy corgis and bear!!

[@eegles]

A core lesson of business is that long-term survival requires that you do something no one else can do. MtG did that for 30 years and built a loyal, wealthy fan base, mostly millennial aged people. Now, WotC and Hasbro have decided to extract maximum profit from that fan base, and in the process turn MtG into a generic IP platform. Little about this suggests long-term health for the game.

[@shadowisp]

I used to be interested in commander. But the insane amount of cards wizards ads constantly turn me off so much I want nothing to do with the format. to say nothing of universes beyond. Am I alone in this?

[@mechazard9883]

If the marvel cards sell as well as their figures, we'll be seeing these in dollar stores for years lmao

[@MichelPlanteBrand]

Richard tought on fixing modern : "fix cascade" Wizards : "let's print a stronger cascade and even snap it on lands"

[@Freerider1703]

I see universes beyond in MTG similar as the usage of IPs in Lego. Now most of the items sold as Legos are items with IPs (Star wars, Marvel, Harry Potter etc.). I hope MTG will not go down the same path.

[@MattM-wo4wu]

RIP Lego sets based on timeless tropes, as well as original IPs like Bionicle.

[@Akagami_98]

Magic is becoming the Fortnite of TCG..kinda sad what happened to this game.

[@wtbpants28]

It even has fortnight

[@KayZiTV]

The marvel universes beyond announcement made me actually think to quit the game. It feels like this game is more and more getting to a point where its not for me. (I dont enjoy UB mixed in with regular Magic)

[@johnf9710]

Does VATS go around hexproof since it doesn't target?

[@BertockLeg]

I am personally very happy that Crim can be so excited for this UB. I probably would have been excited if it happened before Endgame. No, let's make it before Infinity Wars. Marvel's quality in writing has taken a dive in the last 4 to 5 years, and I really don't think it is sustainable. Yes, the generic IP is present, Marvel makes tons of money from the merchandise, but the movies are failing. Is this what we want for magic? Having everyone wear Chandra's shirts and yet the game is dying?

[@lxyacht]

I gotta say, I'm right back into product fatigue. I've been buying less and less magic since about 2021. Can't get excited for anything because I always assume something better is coming so who cares.

[@CouchtrollPodcastDS]

Magic is diving into Marvel as the movie industry is starting to sink and comic industry is also shrinking. This either helps grow magic or they risk IP saturation causing older crowd to leave

[@thesamuraiman]

Magic the Gathering should have had animated series and live-action movies by now. Books weren't enough. Magic could have been a big name in multiple markets the way League of Legends has become. I really hope it's not too late. There's so many cool worlds to visit, characters to meet, and stories to tell in the multiverse.

[@KerDogg]

Facts, a good Netflix show when you could share accounts would have made magics popularity skyrocket.

[@dougiedoug7543]

With the release of marvel, do you think there will be a “marvel only” commander format?

[@Niuttuc]

There will likely not be any officially supported one, but commander is a social format, you can play whatever you want with people!

[@KellyUnekis]

Magic becoming the Universal Fighting System is absolutely surreal, but I also understand that Magic's IP is spent, they've exhausted all of the generic fantasy themes and have been navel gazing back to planes for years. It was inevitable, the game wasn't supposed to last 30 freaking years.

[@jamescobblepot4744]

I think if we didn't have so much corporate involvement from Hasbro the game could have continued on for a lot longer, they just want too much too fast and this is the result. An IP like magic needs to be appreciated for what it is instead of used purely as a means to boost quarterly earnings. Oh well I guess nothing can be done now.

[@travisc2127]

Unban Lurrus! Make having evoke elementals a deck building restriction!

[@chrisharrison2900]

Draft is the best way to introduce new players to the game. Universe beyond will turn magic into an irrelevant game that will be marketed to any IP, just like monopoly.

[@izaiahsundquist6877]

As a longtime enjoyer of Starfinder, the set I'm most excited for is the set codenamed Volleyball that releases in 2025 right after Final Fantasy.

[@fishor6527]

most people i know that play limited in person here never played in store except the odd prerelease, most of seem to buy box(s) and just play out of them in our own groups at someone's house intereseting to see how price affects that as it is already so expensive in Aus

[@angryasbear]

It's so good news that I'm actually posting all my collection and things for MTG for sell 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Literally now 🤣

[@mattcassista7103]

Great work on the show guys. A comment I wanted to make was when you were discussing “What version of Wolverine should we get?” and would you be happy if you got the artist of Magic to draw Marvel. I think similarly to that idea is what we got for Lord of the Rings right? While we don’t have comics to directly compare Lord of the Rings too, we also didn’t get a handful of drawing of Viggo Mortenson and Orlando Bloom either….and I think the reception for the LOTR art was well received. I think if the artist over at Magic got their hands on it and drew their own interpretation of X-Men it would be no different then when a new comic book artist takes over the new X-Men comic book line. I think it’s in safe hands.

[@Tclark6199]

This feels like short term profit for long term detriment. The game is losing its identity set by set and the game I fell in love with as a kid is nothing like the game I still love so much today. Happy for anyone who's really excited for these upcoming sets though, I'll never turn down a game be it against Jace, Thor, Cloud, or Gandalf.

[@Bubblenuts13]

I don’t know that it is that much of a negative boon. I think Richard’s perspective that the IP is failing if Crim remembers Doctor Strange instead of Jace isn’t really what matters. I believe that people remember Magic as the game system and the crazy shenanigans or high level plays it allowed them to accomplish. The people that brewed their modern decks with the one ring don’t think about Lord of The Rings so much as they think about the entirety of what they were putting together. I think the biggest danger is if Wizards fails to take these IPs or themselves seriously. If they get lazier with their designs or act cheap about it the game will fall to the wayside. Spider-Man must have a good design in the ecosystem of magic, but the fact that he is Spider-Man is good in my opinion. Just because they are doing marvel doesn’t mean it will be Fortnite or Funko pop the card game, but it will be if they don’t treat the game with the level of maturity that it has been known for in the past.

[@Shimatzu95]

If they act cheap? Were you asleep the last couple years?

[@Bubblenuts13]

@@Shimatzu95 I don’t think they’ve treated the third party IPs in a cheap or lazy manner. At least not those with more put into them. I think they are bad designers a lot of the time and have trapped themselves in too many catch 22 situations. Lord of the Rings, Transformers, Doctor Who, even stranger things were all treated with dignity and weren’t all gimicky.

[@WormOTB]

I normally don’t draft but at my local Walmart they sell draft boosters at $6 however they sell a set of 3 boosters in a box for $12. Though there may be less rares per booster, it’s usually a consistent 6 and cheaper than set boosters which are priced at $8.

[@ArthurVeenema]

Yeah this kinda sucks. Richard is right. I don’t think the UB crossovers build a stable community or player base. Fans of Marvel, LotR, and Doctor Who might shell out for their favorite IPs, but at these insane prices they’ll ignore the rest. I’ve already seen it happening with people I know and I can feel it myself. If Hasbro and WOTC decide to axe their in-universe products (a very real possibility in the next 5 years IMO), I’ll only buy the cards from the franchises I really care about. My spending on Magic will actually plummet.

[@Knavidson]

Well, it's gonna become the ultimate showdown of ultimate destiny. Sure, I'm for it. Why not.

[@chrisharrison2900]

Crim's and Richards reaction's confirm that magic is dead.

[@trikovi1628]

I feel like at this point universes beyond is gonna have been diminishing returns, like if you reach that point where every set is universes beyond then youre not gonna get any new players, people are just gonna get the IP they like as collectibles and not actually play the game. Like do people get into collecting Funko pops after they get their favorite characters?

[@trikovi1628]

Also these cards coming out in 2025 is very funny considering the recent strikes. If you don't know strikes normally don't affect anything recently from when they happen, they normally really have their impact one to two years after the fact. So depending on how things shake out these might come out on an absolute drought of marvel product

[@TheSovietMachine]

The discussion of Evoke Elementals is actually done as if everyone on the podcast has forgotten what Modern was like pre-MH2. Modern is hugely more varied than it was before, and the Evoke Elementals solved the "two ships passing in the night" problem. Up the Beanstalk is problematic because it makes the Elementals free. Before that, the only way to do that was Risen Reef, which was much easier to remove, or Ephemerate, which fills your deck with dead draws.

[@dane_anubis6213]

If they keep it out of some 60 card formats maybe it's ok. But magic is going to disappear. I really wish the netflix show had happened before this got to big

[@MrGrovak]

Richard play Overencumbered with Mycosynth Lattice. 😏 Overall I am excited for the stuff on the horizon but it's still a lot to digest.

[@EchoDjinni]

As a standard/limited/arena player I dont't mind this as long as it doesn't blow up standard.

[@Nathanael_Forlorn]

Magic needs to preserve and expand it's proprietary IP, and not lose themselves in collaboration. Deliver your own lore better. Actually do produce an anime that tells the story of the current plane! Not similar to pokemon, but similar to dota anime. Personality driven, explore facettes of the lore, reveal exciting new content,etc. And I'm not into anime. But a show that pushes their own story is def better (If produced well!) than just delivering someone else's story. Tell your own.

[@Ktjnn]

Magic is becoming Ultimate Showdown of Ultimate Destiny and I dont know how I feel about that.

[@Metroid23456]

Always happy that people like Universes Beyond. Magic cards have always been a toy and if these things make people happy, who am I to judge others for enjoying them. That said, from a personal standpoint, I'm sticking to making cubes and avoiding these all together. Just feels so lame to me that Wizards would give up on their IP thats been going for 30 years in favor of turning Magic into Fortnite or Smash bros.

[@jamiekuryla3940]

Obviously the Fog Marvel character is Dr Strange. Also Fallout for me is at least an A, Dogmeat just makes me smile.

[@AkiVainio]

Who drafts? Longtime players. It's an easy way to get back to the game after breaks. You don't have to maintain a collection. Actually, most veteran players I know will always draft when playing for fun. I have a bunch of boxes for this reason specifically.

[@adameschete9165]

I’m gonna say Nightcrawler would probably be the “fog” character in the Marvel Universe.

[@JonathanPetzold-u4r]

Storm would be fog, Nightcrawler would be blink/flicker.. ..imo...

[@connormohs6046]

Do you guys go over the teaser for Ixalan at all? I’m watching right now, wanted to hear your thoughts

[@_claymore]

they usually cover all the spoilers and such. iirc Tomer already made a preview of the Ixalan Commander cards that were shown the other day.

[@VKaloustian14]

Former yugioh player turned modern magic player here. The comparison between modern and yugioh is nonexistent. You might’ve had an argument in 2010. But yugioh is so fast nowadays I would argue it’s even faster than legacy. Vintage might be the closest thing Magic has to yugioh. Yugioh doesn’t last any longer than 4 turns total in 2023. Modern in 2023 averages at about 8. I’m not saying the argument to ban the elementals is nonexistent, but the reasons you give are silly, making the whole argument seem silly by correlation. There are people in the community legitimately trying to find the problem with modern, and these kinds of arguments add nothing but noise. It’s not as simple as “ban elementals. Format good now :)”

[@MentalCrusader]

I'm calling it right now, there'll be race swapping like in the lotr set😂

[@The_1_TrueKyle]

TL:DR, Magic cards are the new comics for Marvel In a not too distant future, in a galaxy not too far away - after Disney acquires Hasbro in a $6 billion deal all Magic IP is taken over by Marvel and becomes new source material for future phases of the MCU.

[@mark1A100]

i mean no doubt about that