Marx, Capitalism, and Neoclassical Economics | Steve Keen | Escaped Sapiens #65

[@gingerkilkus]

Our economy struggling with uncertainties, housing issues, foreclosures, global fluctuations, and pandemic aftermath, causing instability. Rising inflation, sluggish growth, and trade disruptions need urgent attention from all sectors to restore stability and stimulate growth.

[@Franklin-gq4si]

In particular, amid inflation, investors should exercise caution when it comes to their exposure and new purchases. It is only feasible to get such high yields during a recession with the guidance of a qualified specialist or reliable counsel.

[@williamDonaldson432]

True, initially I wasn't quite impressed with my gains, opposed to my previous performances, I was doing so badly, figured I needed to diversify into better assets, I touched base with a portfolio-advisor and that same year, I pulled a net gain of $550k...that's like 7times more than I average on my own.

[@foreverlaura-fq4eu]

@@williamDonaldson432 This aligns perfectly with my desire to organise my finances prior to retirement. Could you provide me with access to your advisor?

[@foreverlaura-fq4eu]

This aligns perfectly with my desire to organise my finances prior to retirement. Could you provide me with access to your advisor?

[@williamDonaldson432]

Annette Marie Holt is the licensed fiduciary I use. Just research the name. You’d find necessary details to work with a correspondence to set up an appointment..

[@waynemcmillan5970]

Internationally famous and the most trenchant critic of mainstream economics, Steve Keen elaborates brilliantly why economics isn’t a science.He wants to rebuild economic theory from the top down and I support wholeheartedly his noble goal. Economics as taught in universities today is just sophisticated, mathematised, elegant cant, devoid of reality.

[@krishammond8851]

Economics as a degree is predominantly an easy pass. It’s not actually that difficult. Looking back, math was simple. Never touched linear algebra for example. Only uses of it without knowing underlying mathematics. Micro and macro is pretty crap aswell. Very out of date. The only reason I don’t regret is that I had a teacher akin to that teacher in dead poets society who was a legend and very inspiring

[@Lyra0966]

Indeed, but it's even more cynical than that. Neo-liberal economics is little more than an 'academic' edifice built to justify greed, inequality and exploitation.

[@lengould9262]

Religion

[@10raystube]

Keen is out to lunch. Top down management of the economy is a foolish ambition. Economist proving how irrelevant they are. The Austrian school of economics has it right. Praxeology, human action is best. Leave people alone to solve their own problems.

[@lengould9262]

@10raystube You claim "the Austrian school of economics has it right". Based on what? They have absolutely no explanation for why China's economy works so well for benefit of all citizens rather than only the wealthiest 1% as they promote.

[@andrewpaterson5192]

" Economists get away with their bullshit because they are not essential to the functioning of capitalism" . 😢

[@truthaboveall7988]

America can’t do capitalism we do something far more nefarious & the so called capitalists r fully reliant on the symbiotic relationship between the govt & the policies that protect them from having to compete or succeed on their own sans taxpayer bail outs subsidies free printed $$$ & trade wars / China does capitalism if we’re honest about using definitions in their actuality & not the Orwellian way the US defines things including democracy

[@jgalt308]

@@truthaboveall7988 When you don't understand what the words mean, and are ignorant of the history of the species, that you have anything positive to to offer to the discussion is highly improbable. As most are simply reacting to the circumstances they are subject to, positive contributions are negligible to nonexistent, and most are simply engaged in preaching to the various factions in order to accumulate power for themselves and the benefits that accompany it.

[@psikeyhackr6914]

"All warfare is based on deception." - Sun Tzu Economists help maintain confusion. Adam Smith wrote "read, write and account". When have economists advocated mandatory accounting in the schools? Of course Smith and Marx never saw Planned Obsolescence but Marx used the word 'depreciation' 35 times in the first two volumes of his major work. Where is the data on the annual depreciation of automobiles? The first gas powered automobile was not invented until 2 years after Marx died.

[@vivianoosthuizen8990]

The ultra rich families use the most energy by far per person

[@DaveShap]

Nice beard! EDIT: SYSTEMS THINKING! Yes. The world needs more systems thinking.

[@EscapedSapiens]

Its never a permanent feature :,D

[@Chasebald]

OMG, the part where he absolutely bolts through all of neoclassical orthodoxy was completely insane. Steve Keen is something else lol.

[@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885]

I'm glad Ricardo corroborated my Environmental Economics University paper, "The Incorrect Supply and Demand Model"!! I relied on a great book called "ANTI-Samuelson"

[@nthperson]

Check out the book on macroeconomic theory by the late Mason Gaffney, who taught for many years at the University of California. Gaffney was a great admirer of Henry George.

[@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885]

@@nthperson am listening to him now. Thanks. Mason Gaffney Ph.D Oriignal air date 05-22-13 - he talks fast!

[@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885]

@@nthperson Eagle River. Average Sales Price $742,446. Median Sales Price $452,450. Total Listings 100. Population 7,346. Welcome to Eagle River, Wisconsin, - he mentions that town! wow.

[@tom_rob]

19:44 - David Ricardo said , it is ultimately the cost of production that determines the prices at which goods are sold and not, as has often been said, supply & demand.

[@joepaluka9031]

Goodness, Ricardo's view was debunked by Von Mises in 1920's!

[@Emanon...]

Theories of economic are closer to religion than anything else. We've repeatedly seen facts that contradict the proposed "solutions", yet the hardcore adherents will adamantly claim that their view is the "the only way" to correct the problems.

[@shaunbooth1836]

This was so refreshing to hear someone who truly understands the limitations of unscientific economics!

[@tom_rob]

18:22 - Only use a [ college , neo-classical economic ] textbook _________ if you can't keep the door open because it's too windy outside

[@Mary-Mar]

When I was in college, I took an economics 101 class and I distinctly remember my professor asking me after class to consider becoming an economics major because I grasped the concepts so well. I remained a political science major, and remember, even at 18 years old, I thought, I couldn't possibly spend my time studying something that's inherently made up and ignores the facts and realities of human nature. Looking back, while there's nothing scientific about "political science" either, at least the study of power dynamics and human behavior on both the micro and macro level was real. (I probably would have made more money, though)

[@nthperson]

There is one economics professor I came to respect as a true scientist. This was the University of California professor Mason Gaffney. I can recommend his many articles and one of his last published writings was a 100-page critique of Macroeconomics.

[@williamgrabowski453]

@@nthperson Could you tell me the title of that paper if you wouldn't mind? Thanks!

[@nthperson]

@@williamgrabowski453 Here is a direct link to the paper: cooperative-individualism.org/gaffney-mason_a-new-framework-for-macroeconomics-2009.pdf. Gaffney's writings over a long professor life are assembled on this website.

[@Pasandeeros]

I wish I could give this more than just one thumb up.

[@carolyntyrrell1645]

Agree

[@stringlarson1247]

I feel the same about every conversation or talk with/by Steve over the past 10+ years.

[@swiftcee266]

A person much cleverer than me once said, ‘the only real winner is the voyager probe heading away from earth at 17 kilometres a second’.

[@tom_rob]

20:23 - If you DO NOT have a right to everything you NEED to pursue Happiness, then you DO NOT have a right to pursue Happiness

[@Victoria-Enzula]

Green UBI while we reconstruct a non profit oriented society

[@tom_rob]

24:17 - János Kornai (21 JAN 1928 - 18 OCT 2021) Hungarian economist noted for his analysis & criticism of command economies of Eastern European communist states. He also covered macroeconomic aspects in countries undergoing post-Soviet transition. He was emeritus professor at both Harvard & Corvinus U of Budapest. Kornai was known to have coined the term shortage economy to reflect perpetual shortages of goods in the centrally-planned command economies of the Eastern Bloc. - Wikipedia

[@tom_rob]

16:36 - So when you do the empirical work - that is exactly like finding craters on the surface of the moon or moons circling Jupiter and Saturn - when you do that , the [ neo-classical economic ] paradigm [ and all neo-classical economic thinking built on that paradigm ] should go out the window

[@letsRegulateSociopaths]

Limits to growth has proven to be correct and in fact we are ahead of the projections

[@The0ldg0at]

One of Marx goals was to build a scientific fondation to Economics. That's why he started with Dialectical materialism to be able to build some "objective" definition that could help to describe the evolution of societal economic interactions in the know human history. His best known dialectic expression is "Class strugle" between the few people of the "Ruling Class" against the "Working Class" which archeologists use to distiguish between between "civilized" and "non-civilized" societies. Like the famous Mr Spock said "The needs of the many common people should outweight the needs of the few (ruling) elites people. Live long and prosper." And that why the few elite capitalists wanted to promote the neo classical economic religion ("religare" what connect all people) in our higher education system.

[@jgalt308]

"or the ONE!!!" But you seem to have missed the plot, and the ending/continuation because the "reality" and the choice, was totally the opposite of that "ideology". The essence of "being human"...or as Robert Sapolsky has shown...that altruism in behavioral biology is one twin, two siblings, or eight cousins.

[@nthperson]

We seem to forget that the original ruling elite -- the landed -- never went away. They took the rents gained from tenant farmers and even from businesses and either bought more land, started banking empires or lobbied government to create monopolies that protected them from competition. What he accomplished and still accomplish is the redistribution of income and wealth from the actual producers to themselves. Call them "rentiers" or call them "monopolists" the outcomes are still the same.

[@tom_rob]

20:24 - Here are the 6 external elements which, together, comprise the needed Decent Livelihood without which no one may pursue Happiness & which a Good Self-Governing People Provides & Maintains for all its members to its best ability:

[@chrisburnett4742]

It is astounding to me that Australia can produce a top notch economic thinker like Steve Keen, yet we operate an economic system that is designed to sideline those like him precisely because he shows them the fallacies of their models.

[@nthperson]

Check out the work of Prosper Australia, based on Melbourne.

[@jacktherip7750]

truth and facts here....very nice thanks

[@EscapedSapiens]

Very Welcome... :)

[@tom_rob]

1:38:10 - Unable to find the website of the Solomon Island charity _________ that helps house Australian homeless. Anyone know their _________ URL or telephone or mailing address ?

[@tom_rob]

20:25 - [ 1. A decent supply of the means of subsistence _________ 2. Living & working conditions conducive to health _________ 3. Medical care

[@Emanon...]

They've created a system so complex that they can't even coherently explain it to themselves or others. That's when you know you're dealing with "naked emperor's", not legitimate expertise.

[@daraolugbake7895]

Fantastic as usual, thank you Mr Keen.

[@RichPober]

Economics is a function of biology, i.e. human societies seeking and exploiting energy sources until they have to transition to a new energy source or a new technological form of utilising energy. These energy utilisation transitions tend to follow a long-wave cycle of about 250 years. The current carbon-based economic cycle began in the 18th century, during the Industrial Revolution. We are now riding the tail end of this 'Carbon Impulse' to human societies and economies.

[@user-Jfjd638bdj82]

Such an underrated channel!

[@blairhakamies4132]

Excellent. I got that idea around the third lesson of introduction of Economics. 👏

[@unkleskunky]

why is necessary to produce precise demand curves of the aggregate in order to determine a theory of value?

[@scoutjohnson1803]

It’s easy to see how well economics work. All you have to do is look at the IMF statistics, (comparing the approx. 200 countries). It shows their ideas don’t work!

[@livanoguerrero3385]

Economics only works in free democratic environments wh8ch are very scarce...you can only find them in the fairly developed societies...the rest are only partial attempts limited by erroneous policies and mostly incapable management officials...

[@jero4059]

This was marvelous.

[@EscapedSapiens]

Thanks for listening!

[@knasil]

This is probably the best video about economics that I saw in my whole life... And I have been trying to understand this complete pile of garbage since the 2008 crisis!!! Thank you!

[@nthperson]

Look up British economic journalist Fred Harrison, author of about a dozen hard-hitting and thoughtful books on our economic system's problems.

[@mathieuraetz2041]

Great talk.

[@EscapedSapiens]

Glad you enjoyed!

[@BFWRParadigmChange]

Everything Keen says about the economy is correct...and the new monetary paradigm of Gifting strategically implemented is the solution.

[@arminius6506]

35:02 last time i checked CCP had nearly 90 million members.

[@craigrik2699]

Who is the CCP? I know of the CPC?

[@mikhailfranco]

@@craigrik2699 CCP is the normal English abbreviation in common usage. CPC is the official English abbreviation approved by the CCP.

[@BillKort-xo8nj]

The CPC and the CCP are two distinct entities. The CCP is a political party. It was founded in 1921. The CPC is the name of the government of the People's Republic of China. It came into common use in October 1949. Not all government officials come from the CCP. There are 9 political parties in China. Government officials can be a member of anyone of these parties. Plus, there Independent officials: they have no party affiliation.

[@nthperson]

Not only do economists ignore the question of where wealth comes from but (for the most part) they decline to define what is and what is not wealth. Is wealth any asset that has exchange value? Or is wealth limited to the tangible goods one produces by applying one's labor to nature (i.e., to the factor land) with or without the assistance of tools (i.e., capital goods). Henry George, building on the analysis of earlier political economists, argued that our planet is a commons and that justice requires law that secures and protects equal opportunity of all individuals to access the planet. As it is practically impossible to divide the planet into parcels each with the same potential to produce tangible wealth, George adopted the physiocratic approach: access to land should be achieved by competitive bidding for a leasehold interest. The rents generated by the system would become the revenue with which society would be able to pay for democratically agreed upon goods and services. This rent fund is not taxation but a charge for benefits received. George believed rents would be sufficient to pay for all that people desired from government, so that taxation of individual incomes or business revenue, taxation of capital goods and other tangible assets, and taxation of commerce would not be necessary.

[@tom_rob]

20:22 - [ It's up to voters in a self-governing polity to know best how to govern themselves]

[@maa2857]

I would like to ask Dr. Steve Keen to outline 5 Characteristics of science. Dr. M.H.A.

[@hectorrodriguez2686]

Cost drop until capacity is reached and additional capital must be added, resetting the fix cost to a new higher one.

[@tom_rob]

1:39:44 - Anything a machine can do a man [human] should not do - Aristotle

[@tom_rob]

20:21 - [ Socialism & democracy are 2 sides of the same coin when speaking of political & economic HAVES without HAVE-NOTS ]

[@vivianoosthuizen8990]

The high cost of technology that was claimed to reduce prices had the opposite effect.

[@tom_rob]

20:27 - [ 5. Opportunities for access to the goods of the mind _________ through educational facilities in youth & adult life

[@davidgordon1981]

As much as I am convinced that colonising Mars is the stupidest idea anyone ever had, a colony on mars would have to be basically primitive communist, like most indigenous societies where and still are.

[@ADobbin1]

No, it's an ecosystem and they keep disrupting that ecosystem. For an economy to function money cannot be allowed to pool. For the last 30 years money has been allowed to pool at the top of society instead of flowing, and the pool keeps getting larger.

[@tom_rob]

20:20 - [ K-Marx's perfect socialism he called COMMUNISM & was a ____ system of ONLY-STATE PROPERTY producing. ____ Our private property producing system survived & the ____ ONLY-STATE-PROPERTY producing system did not survive.

[@vivianoosthuizen8990]

The double entry accounting is the root of the problem. It’s the smoke and mirrors of the system

[@mikhailfranco]

36:30 China does far less to help its poor than Western countries. You might say that the West is _much more_ socialist than China. China has poor education, private healthcare (and a bunch of TCM quackery), no state pensions and very few welfare benefits. Families are expected to help each other, and support the elderly - difficult after the one-child policy created an inverted pyramid. The West has decent public education, access to healthcare, massive welfare state, and pension system, so a huge fraction of GDP is public education/healthcare and transfer payments. For example: healthcare is free at point of use in UK and Canada, even the US has Medicaid and Medicare; education is free 5-18, university used to be free in the UK, until student fees & loans in 1998 (ironically introduced by Blair under Labour). China falls far behind the West on social support. Tier 1 cities give a false impression, because The Party tries to keep everything looking good, but there is a lot of poverty in the countryside (especially ethnic minority regions), smaller cities and local towns.

[@user-Jfjd638bdj82]

Because the west is exploiting people and resources in all other countries of the world, including China and its population. They ARE ABLE to afford better social security for their people. Their loot is far greater than that of China.

[@vivianoosthuizen8990]

It’s not isms that causes problems it’s lack of anti monopoly laws taxing the poor

[@nthperson]

True enough. Public revenue should come from economic rents and not taxing what we produce. A good start would be to simplify the income tax and make it really progressive. Exempt all individual incomes up to the national medium, eliminate all other exemptions and deductions, then impose an increasing rate of taxation on higher ranges of income. At the highest levels, almost all income is unearned.

[@vivianoosthuizen8990]

Marketing and advertising blows ALL so-called theories of labour consumption and logic out of water

[@HerrschmannNachmann]

1. CBDC 2. CBDC-backed UBI 3. to avoid hoardings and gains based on these: a ressource tax 4. use the centralized data provided by CBDC (= status of all resources in real time, patterns and trends) for optimizations of resource allocations 5. implement a real competition - that means: innovations / best-practices - and provide gratifications for sharing this knowledge (I'd have a Groupware-CSCW-solution with AI-integration for agile development with reviewsa, assessments and feedbackloops for CIPs at hand, btw ...) PS: the argument for private ownership of capital goods was what again? ... is this argument still valid, after pts 1-5 are implemented?

[@crhu319]

It isn't. Information problem solved.

[@katiecannon8186]

I think a housing bubble in China is different than one in the U.S. for 2 reasons: China thinks in much longer time spans than we do. So those ghost cities might not be ghost forever Also, China will use hover much fiscal power it needs to prevent a depression

[@letsRegulateSociopaths]

Only 1991 didn't have a steep rise in personal debt to income, all others since 85 absolutely did

[@thecarpenter645]

Good as usual Steve Keen. A good experiment for a society on Mars would be to send all the believers to Mars and see how they cope with life on mars, Elon and Jeff would be good starters for this experiment

[@scoutjohnson1803]

The colonisation of Australia could be a blueprint for the colonisation of Mars. Without the mistakes the English made. No soldiers, no criminals from the slums of London. Maybe they should have somebody who knows what is going on.

[@jesperandersson889]

Mars bars

[@jeffchapman8992]

Enjoy Steve Keen BUT this is the first time I've heard him reference how "we've screwed up climate"! WTF? 😂 I'd love to hear him expand on this. Bizarre. 🤷‍♂️

[@sammyDAbull2]

Turn your car on in the garage and wait around. Thats the exapansion

[@churblefurbles]

Way off on inhereted wealth, who spends unearned wealth most grotesquely? Politicians.

[@SpirosPagiatakis]

You surely mean corrupt politicians

[@viralshaman5736]

making a lot of dubious assumptions re the uniqueness of our current "knowledge"

[@vivianoosthuizen8990]

Economists read books they don’t run factories that’s the issues

[@davidgordon1981]

A realistic model would and should include the power and influence of money in politics!

[@vivianoosthuizen8990]

When those that benefits in increased demand also have the power to control supply of a critically important product or services then the entire demand supply price nonsense falls apart

[@vivianoosthuizen8990]

Why is shares not treated as debt when the corporations are literally borrowing from the investors cash and giving them a portion of the business?

[@jgalt308]

Not true...as the shares are sold in the free market with no obligation of the issuer to purchase them. Actual ownership belongs to those holding "common "voting" stock, and in terms of the debt a corporation may be liable for, they are the last to be compensated should the corporation be dissolved due to bankruptcy. Other creditors, must be satisfied first before these shareholders receive whatever value might be left. Many corps do not issue "common stock" nor pay dividends...such as Amazon, so any gain comes from the appreciation of the stock itself and that is determined by the market. Those who issue loans to corps or who purchase "bonds" issued by them, are those who hold the "debt" and have priority in bankruptcy proceedings.

[@letsRegulateSociopaths]

2040 is the commonly held date for limits to growth

[@vivianoosthuizen8990]

Why the heck are we trying to run the economy in 21st century according to theories from the world as it was before technology and marketing in the 18th century

[@letsRegulateSociopaths]

We don't have to lower our quality of life if we cut down the cost of rent seeking

[@unkleskunky]

I think you have to call that "better than free trade" for the Chinese business partner".

[@thomasd2444]

24:18 - Constrained

[@vivianoosthuizen8990]

Welfare harms humans except for the very disabled and sickly elderly all should earn their daily bread

[@lengould9262]

They place significant emphasis on "economists" failure to predict the 2008 financial crash. I've long held a theory that what really happens (in the USA) has a crisis level disruption in each presidential election year that the GOP expects to lose incumbancy. A) if the wall street bosses of politicians expect their GOP pets to win the election and the presidency (and hence responsibility for the economy for next 4 years IN THE MINDS OF VOTERS), then moves are made to keep a "happier" situation for voters. B) if forecast GOP loses, then a really messed up economy is left for the winners. Similar for military (Carter/Reagan and Iran resolution), eg has notoriously conservative officer class of military EVER won an action for a Dem admin, or lost one for a GOP admin since Vietnam? (Actually i was surprised at raid on Osama compound actually achieving objective, highly motivated lower ranks overcame several problems. How long had CIA known he was there?)

[@tom_rob]

2026 - [ 4.Opportunities for access to the pleasures of sense _________ as well as the pleasures of play & the aesthetic pleasures

[@tom_rob]

20:40 - Classical economic school decline

[@vivianoosthuizen8990]

When debt goes up so should wages to afford the debt of families. If business debt goes up and it failed to achieve growth from it then they should be declared bankrupt

[@jgalt308]

Right...so you have no clue what money is or inflation or the source of either?

[@davidgordon1981]

Buildings in Australia are glorified tents compared to the rest of the world!

[@gilland2000]

No. It is not.

[@tombrunila2695]

Economics is mostly opinions!

[@vivianoosthuizen8990]

Is governments going to tax the robots and are corporations going to sell to their robots?

[@crowesarethebest]

Great conversation. Thanks for posting.

[@psikeyhackr6914]

*GDP is Grossly Distorted Propaganda* What is NDP, Net Domestic Product? Where is the data on the annual depreciation of automobiles and other durable consumer goods since Sputnik? In his major work Karl Marx used the word 'depreciation' 35 times. But consumers did not buy automobiles and air conditioners when Marx and Smith wrote about economics. John Maynard Keynes never saw a television commercial for automobiles. Wealth requires land. Iron and copper had to be dug up somewhere. Crops have to be grown somewhere. But money does not give people brains though intellectual property can be bought or stolen. The NAZInomic Wargame is a continuation of the Military Wargame by other means.

[@Emanon...]

If your hypothesis can't reliably explain or predict cause and effect, even with a limited sample size, then no, it's not a science. A discipline, sure. But then I'd argue that astrology is also considered a discipline by some. Fact is that economic theory is largely based on the political persuasion of the economist. Hell, they can't even agree on what can be deemed "good or bad" for an economy.

[@Mikey-mike]

Economics is not science. Economics is not predictive/falsefiable

[@vivianoosthuizen8990]

Only life has value in other words we sell our hours of labour and if we spend too many hours on anything it’s unproductive

[@life42theuniverse]

Economics is legally a science... for the grants and tax deductions

[@life42theuniverse]

Neoclassical ideology emerged from the oil market kzbin.info/www/bejne/o2STopiDl9SMjrssi=sjR248m9IIt4Kv5_

[@life42theuniverse]

Is there enough wood to make more chairs? How fast does the wood regrow? What purpose does the wood serve to nature? External and Irrelevant to the Rich.

[@user-Jfjd638bdj82]

​@@life42theuniversebut not only to the rich. To the poor as well. Poor are just as indifferent to environment or even more so than rich people. They like to play victim and put all of the blame on rich, as if poverty automatically implies righteousness. And i say it as a poor peasant. Humans just suсk.

[@vivianoosthuizen8990]

Why can’t pensioners work in Australia?

[@tomasromero9573]

As we ruined the Earth, We will ruin the universe wherever we go!

[@Jorn-sy6ho]

By the same logic psychology isn´t a science, only believing what's in the DSM, which does not have empirical support to be the way mental health issues are supposed to be categoriesed. And it does not explain how there are different ways of thinking, from visual to lingual to abstract.

[@SpirosPagiatakis]

Everybody was envious of physicists. Everybody wanted to be as scientific as physicists. So few succeded, but they are all called scientists.

[@sebastianbalbo1906]

Grazie

[@TheVigilantEye77]

Don’t marginal costs FALL ?

[@herbwiseman9084]

Colonizing Mars is an ironic idea? Did humans start there and after destroying it did we then move to earth? Lol😅

[@Keyur904]

Loved your deep dive on Marx and modern economics! If you're looking to boost engagement, I specialize in transforming long-form content into catchy reels and shorts. Let's make your insights pop and reach a wider audience!

[@foo_tube]

What will happen to the labor theory of value when/if they develop AI to do most of the white and blue collared labor, which seems an ever more real possibility these days. Will they give us all UBI? Or will they simply quietly kill us off by ignoring pandemics and the like? I want to be optimistic, but I'm guessing in a world that values money, business and commerce more than human lives, it will be the latter. It seems to me that a government that has no ethical qualms financing the bombing of hospitals and aid workers and universities and refugee camps... probably also lacks any qualms about doing roughly the same to its own populace... should they turn out to be inconveniently expensive. I would love to hear from any people who understand the higher level workings of economics on how things could work out for everyone. IOW, please talk me out of my pessimism if possible. Thank you.

[@jgalt308]

Clearly, you missed that part of the discussion...and that Marx buried the "objective reality" to achieve his"intended result". The whole point of Keen's work He is currently working on a new science of economics built upon incontrovertible facts. However, that should read...economics as "science"...since it never has been and still isn't. a.k.a. entropy and the laws of thermodynamics.

[@vivianoosthuizen8990]

Go study the Armish economy and you will see what economics should be

[@nthperson]

What is their system of land allocation? Is the land treated as a commons, or is it individually owned?

[@RobertADellar]

Economics is not a science; it is a philosophy mostly absent of ethics. One upon a time, philosophy meant 'philosophy and science', before they parted ways. split into [physics and metaphysics. Just because you use the science of math to analyze stocks using price, it doesn't mean you evaluate the underlying stock objectively.

[@Zino-po2zl]

Elon Musk's father had emerald mines in south Africa aparteid state. Ffs how did he not inherit wealth?

[@maa2857]

Steve Keen is really confused, is really he wants to talk about Economic to be a science or he discuss about economics system , he is really confused.

[@Rob-fx2dw]

Confusion is his forte from being confused about himself and what he has predicted and which did not turn out to be true - like his insistent continued predictions a few years ago on massive falls in housing prices in Australia which turned out to be the opposite.. But he does not want to be reminded of that.

[@KenHinnenkamp]

The Earth is flat. All critical observations confirm it is not a sphere.

[@Thomas-zl2hb]

Wow. I never thought about it like that. Thanks for the insight.

[@vivianoosthuizen8990]

How much energy does robots and AI consume? Bet it’s more than humans.

[@rustylidrazzah5170]

No it isn’t.

[@jesperandersson889]

Anglosaxon imperialism... wow POPCORN!!!

[@vivianoosthuizen8990]

So he and his mates peddling pandemics and genocides and wars