Mass Effect 3: Thermal clips vs overheating argument with Conrad Verner

[@homeycdawg]

Smartest thing Conrad ever said.

[@toko4578]

Conrad is actually very smart guy, he's just lacking in human relations. As most geniuses.

[@TheMonkeygoneape]

@@toko4578 ya doesn't he have a PhD in theoretical Dark Matter manipulation or something

[@SHADOWofJUSTiCE]

thermals are a huge disappointment, unlimited ammunition is the best...

[@fallensiolder]

I wish you had the choice between thermal clip and overheat I would have gladly taken a damaged penalty for unlimited ammunition

[@SHADOWofJUSTiCE]

@@fallensiolder word. infinite ammunition is amazing. if you've ever reloaded a weapon, you know first hand. honestly, i have no idea why it isn't a character creation / selection option when you start or upload a new game. andromeda has both options in game, though i think it's dumb that you have to have a new game+ for it to unlock... if the halo and call of duty clowns want to reload all the time, i understand wanting things to be to your preferences. thus, i would never force them to use the overheating guns. even though it's clearly the superior option...

[@vafeuerstein]

I can feel the contempt seeping out of bioware through shep on this. Other than "it does more damage", there was never an explanation to why the entire galaxy decided within two years to replace weapons that had essentially limitless ammunition with a system that prevents you from firing if you don't have one time use heat sinks. Even if they hit harder on a per shot basis, I can't imagine it'd be worth creating a galaxy wide logistical nightmare for every military over.

[@DiggitySlice]

Probably just got tired of "fans" bitching about the tweaked gameplay. I've seen the way they bitch, I understand completely.

[@blooperman1997]

@@DiggitySlice You've commented on half of the threads here. You bitch just as much as anyone lol.

[@nikik5567]

Which is a hilarious argument cuz the M7 u get in the citadel DLC does more damage than it’s thermal clip using replacement. So to use the newer M8 is a downgrade in every way. Both in power, and in the fact that u now have thermal clip limitations

[@Janoha17]

Unless it's cheaper.

[@nikik5567]

@@Janoha17 why would it be cheaper? Ur now having to purchase and supply heat sinks and maintain supply lines for those heat sinks to the front of any conflict. So unless the older system was SUPER FUCKIN EXPENSIVE, it was hilariously stupid to make that switch.

[@poslednisoud]

I'm with Conrad on this one. Completely replace guns with practicaly limitless ammo with "thermal clips" without at least keeping the old one as a side arm is a dumb dumb move that any military organisation in the world wouldn't do. It might be considered for special forces who gets in and gets out but soldiers in regular army would rather spend two hours tickling enemy forces with "less powerful" shots then die after two minutes when they run out of thermal clips.

[@NayfaJoinsMinecraft]

Same, the thermal clip isn't a bad idea. But the way they implemented them into the game was STUPID! Seriously, if they really want to implement thermal clips, have the same overheating system, a number of thermal clips you have and there! When you overheat, either take a while to cooldown, or pop a thermal clip into the gun, it should still have infinite ammo! That's why I stuck to the particle rifle in ME3, it has Unlimited ammo

[@steelbear2063]

DLC Citadel gives you the old ME1 M7 Lancer rifle with unlimited ammo

[@NayfaJoinsMinecraft]

Олег Егоров And there's the prothean particle beam with unlimited ammo

[@steelbear2063]

Communist Spy Unlimited ammo for all. Sounds like something a COMMUNIST WOULD WANT! _>

[@NayfaJoinsMinecraft]

Олег Егоров XD In Soviet Russia You don't run out of ammo Ammo run out of you

[@HorusHeresy1982]

No matter how you dress it up, it's basically ammunition.

[@Lord_Numpty]

Literally called as such by whoever speaks after the _massive_ hail of dakka in one of the DLCs. Something about the universe running out of ammunition.

[@Crusina]

Yes that's the point of this joke 🙄

[@bruhSaintJohn]

@@Lord_Numpty I think it was garrus. Of course.

[@TheTexasDice]

How did the crew of the crashed space ship with Jacob's dad get Thermal clips? That ship crashed around 20 years BEFORE the attack on the citadel happened.

[@JunKurosu]

+Texas Dice ten years before

[@ThePreciseClimber]

Mate, there is a very simple explanation. The whole thermal clips thing? IT'S JUST STUPID.

[@joaocbcneto]

that only makes no sense if they reloaded their guns which i dont remember them doing unless im just forgetting things

[@salmasrac3351]

enemies drop thermal clips on that mission for you to pick up

[@joaocbcneto]

SalInf MasterRace ok it is actually a plothole

[@fulcrum2951]

Logistics wise, I'd prefer the rechargeable energy weapon than thermal clips The protheans designed a weapon like that

[@mdredheadguy1979]

Yeah, too bad there aren’t any Protheans around anymore to help manufacture the guns on a large scale.

[@KosherPorky]

@@mdredheadguy1979 If the alliance managed to build the crucible, I think it would be 100% plausible that any prothean rifle that exists, particularly by shepard in ME3, would be able to be replicated quite easily and ready for mass production.

[@darth_dan8886]

Yep. They replicated the technology of the Reaper beam. And used it both in the Thanix cannon and that sniper rifle in ME3 you find on Rannoch... Also, hence why that Protean weapon pretty much never left my loadout since I acquired it.

[@addisonwelsh]

Theoretically speaking, Thermal Clips could be reusable. All you'd have to do is let them cool off and examine them for any sort of damage, then pop em back in. They could also develop some sort of cooling station to replenish discharged clips.

[@darth_dan8886]

@@addisonwelsh Oh, this is you as well :) Therefore, explaining. The thermal clips appear to be working by exploiting the heavily endothermic nature of phase transitions from solid or liquid to gaseous form. Ejecting thermal clips always seems to be venting some sort of gas. I assume that the only way to "recharge" these is to recollect and re-liquify (or re-solidify) the compound in use.

[@trolldrool]

The argument for thermal clips, or at least for replacing every single firearm with thermal clips, gets a little weaker when you remember that the most advanced weapon mods you could buy in ME 1 could slow down the overheating effect to a point that you practically had to try to overheat them on purpose.

[@darkjackl999]

Unless an enemy used overheat double frictionless AR could shoot effectively indefinitely I tested rubber banding the trigger n left for ~15 minutes Not even 1/4 heat

[@constableconstable2563]

A combination I used was frictionless with snowblind rounds, more damage with quite literally no heat. I fired for five minutes and not even one point of heat.

[@-TakingSomeLs]

Not only that but frictionless materials doubled up on the pistol, shotty, and sniper make it so you can fire them infinitely. Jesus christ

[@Nichi-Ji]

Yeah by the end of ME1 you should be an unstoppable demigod

[@TheMeta141]

oh i did try. my pistol and rifle NEVER overheated, it took about 20 non stop shots from my sniper and shotgun to overheat them.

[@RampantFury925]

The M7 in Citadel was basically Bioware saying "There you go, now stop bitching."

[@badjuju2721]

And it is one of the best guns in the game

[@nathanstultz3434]

@@badjuju2721 give it the ammo capacity upgrade and you'll practically never overheat.

[@AndrevusWhitetail]

@@badjuju2721 That and Javik's literal laser beam

[@Degamk619]

@@AndrevusWhitetail Beam rifle has lame firing sounds tho. Meanwhile, Hearing the old sound effects from ME1 coming from the M-7 is the greatest piece of fanservice the Citadel dlc offers to me.

[@PhthaloGreenskin]

@@Degamk619 plus the gun sounds BEEFY, me1 had the sound design in my opinion.

[@trisagion8451]

Conrad broke the 4th wall, and said what every gamer who played ME 1,2 and 3 was thinking

[@ransherman1611]

yeah, no, i'm with shepard here. the gameplay is better with thermal clips. lore-wise it's also make sense, since soldiers can't always keep track of the overheating in the heat of combat and the cooling time takes longer than it is to reload a weapon.

[@spacejesus6581]

@@ransherman1611 I would rather have a car with unlimited fuel that I have to park every hour than a faster normal car, because unlimited anything is a better tool than a limited counterpart

[@bigj1905]

@@ransherman1611 Yeah, it’s a good choice for a in game mechanic, but it totally breaks the in-universe continuity. Why would several galactic civilizations all switch within two years to a weapon system that’s less effective than the one they had before? BioWare just couldn’t find a good reason to justify it.

[@rcslyman8929]

@@spacejesus6581 So that analogy is decent, but you still only use one car at a time. Whereas weapons, you carry several. It would make sense to convert some options... heavy single-shot weapons like shotguns and sniper rifles, even some of the heavier assault rifles (slower ROF, higher damage weapons, semi-autos) that would benefit from added power with a limited shot capacity. However, other weapons like the lighter assault rifles (high ROF, low damage, full autos) and SMGs, and even most sidearms, would make sense to keep the cooling capacity for a weapon that never runs dry. Yeah, you might have to hunker down, or you have the versatility to pull a thermal clip weapon and continue the fight. If it makes that much of a difference in making bad days down range.

[@spacejesus6581]

@@rcslyman8929 I was saying if I had to choose between the two I would go with unlimited, but if both was an option I would use both obviously

[@Fuzzy_Barbarian]

No wonder Javik thinks we're primitive.

[@samanthagarrett3671]

I don't blame him

[@SS-zg5dv]

I'll be honest, Conrad. He's an Imperial Guardsman to the core. Why bother with "hit harder" when the run out of ammo so fast? Get that man a Lasgun.

[@addisonwelsh]

If you're facing down a Tyranid swarm, do you want a weapon that you can reload in a few seconds, or do you want to be constantly panicking about if your weapon will overheat? Ammo can be stockpiled, but there's no way to work around overheating.

[@evrypixelcounts]

@@addisonwelsh Switch to another weapon while the first one cools down, repeat until enemy is well done.

[@addisonwelsh]

@@evrypixelcounts And if your other weapon isn't suited to the combat scenario? Or you get attacked while switching out?

[@steelbear2063]

@@addisonwelsh Lasgun can do both. The Emperor protects

[@lapu2407]

@@addisonwelsh for a bit of context from the last guy who said the lasgun dose both The lasgun uses interchangeable charge packs which are used as a battery to charge the lasgun so that it may fire. However these charge packs are also chargeable by practically any kind of source. Even leaving one out in the sun for a whole 24hours gives you a fully charged pack hell throwing one in a campfire charges the thing and as a bonus all lasguns no matter the model use the same kind of charge pack so it’s as simple as taking one out of lesser gun and putting it in the superior one.

[@theindooroutdoorsman]

Remember the frictionless materials in the first game that would let you fire endlessly? Two frictionless materials X and that assault rifle would fire until the system died.

[@nikik5567]

Yup

[@AeroQC]

Not unless you had Exploding Rounds. But barring that, yeah, continuous fire until the heat death of the universe.

[@calorinedarkness5232]

@@AeroQC or need to replace your tungsten block.

[@bearbones7913]

I saw one guy write he could fire his gun for half an hour

[@darkjackl999]

@@AeroQC explosive rounds are for making your sniper a shotgun, and your shotgun a rocket launcher

[@fryfry377]

"Sorry, Shepard, but I haven't been shot in the head nearly enough times to make that sound like a good idea!"

[@phylippezimmermannpaquin2062]

When you find a way to immensily trivialize supply chains but then you think to yourself, maybe we dont need our troops to be unable to run out of ammo

[@EvilPaladin11]

I'm your 34th like. Yes, I would indeed like a crate of thermal clips.

[@Arkay24]

You know, I just realized after all these years how much of an understatement that is when you consider the logistics relief of this

[@The_Bird_Bird_Harder]

@@Arkay24 Yeah like. You don't need to ship ammo, you just give a soldier a metal block to take with him, two if you're generous, and that'll last probably as long as he's going to be deployed if not longer.

[@Sergei_Ivanovich_Mosin]

And think of the absolutely major advantage it would be for troops forced to drop behind enemy lines who have no supply chains what so ever.

[@FalconWindblader]

@@The_Bird_Bird_Harder Mass Effect lore has it that so little gets shaved off of a block with every shot fired that a gun, whatever type, could easily fire THOUSANDS of rounds before actually running out of stuff to fire out of the barrel, which means a single block alone could last like A DOZEN deployments & in our world, would be the time where the gun would jam unless properly cleaned in advance. a single block alone would last a soldier at least 2 months unless they have to be deployed almost every day.

[@StUCaboose]

Wait for the gun to cool down? *Laughs in frictionless materials"

[@abigmonster8457]

And Overkill gives instant cooldown if you let it get that hot

[@limitlesssky3050]

This is the first time that I find Shephard to say something idiotic. Why choose a gun dependent on heatsink, when you can have an ammoless gun. The logistic advantage alone could win wars.

[@DragonHeart53]

The implication is that they're implying the guns were like how the starting weapons were. you could barely fire for a second before heat build up meant sitting for the gun to cool down. Of course, this is completely overshadowed by the fact that by end game of mass effect 1, you could easily have guns loaded up with mods that never overheated for entire minutes of continuous fire. While it's completely unrealistic for an entire military force to change to the new system so quickly, it's more reasonable to say that the thermal clips and heat absorption methods co-existed. But the Thermal clip guns were considered "high performance" and since you ejected a sync instead of waiting for it to cool, the gun could be fired more often at higher power (like shepard says.) This does how ever conflict with player experience from the first game, thanks to end game guns being effectively limitless ammo with no cool downs. But that's the byproduct of being an RPG with power escalation.

[@vulthurmir2478]

@@DragonHeart53 to be fair, cooldown wouldn't be much of an issue if you swapped guns, especially if you're a pistol person, just have 2 pistols on you, like you can have in Andromeda.

[@DragonHeart53]

@@vulthurmir2478 True. But, let's remember the fact that the general soldier isn't going to have more than their rifle, and pistol. And in combat situations, it's a bad situation if you NEED to switch to your side arm. Sure, switching to your side arm is a required skill and you need to know when is the right time to do it. But requiring to switch to your pistol when your enemies you're shooting at are far enough away that you'd otherwise use your rifle, you'd just be pissing shots away without any purpose. Unlike what the game implies, soldiers aren't supposed to or capable of going into live combat armed using a pistol and being as effective as a full sized rifle. The only exception are mobile gunner crews for artillery and tank crews. Because they don't have the room to have full sized guns. But with the foldable tech in mass effect, that issue is almost completely eliminated. It's why pistol carbines were made to have the portability of a pistol, but with the wieldability and accuracy of a stocked rifle. But they still lack the stopping power of a rifle. But if a rifle were portable enough to use in it's place, then pistol carbines are meaningless. and go back to being a side arm.

[@PROkiller16]

The best part of this entire thing is how easy it would be to justify returning to heat sinks. In ME1 the sabotage ability would make enemy weapons overheat, just saying the Geth commonly used it and it entered mainstream use is a good reason. How do you stop everyone from overheating your gun, you stop it overheating all together.

[@1rotzy]

I don’t think the sabotage ability overheated the gun, it instead tricked the VI that was in the gun to think that it overheated. If this is the case, you need to scrub the gun of this bug real quick, and then get back to shooting.

[@cosmiccastawaya90]

Even if it was the gun being bugged, I always thought that thermal clips would make sense to be there in addition to letting the gun cool on its own. Then Mass Effect weapons really would be advanced. Because thermal clips taking a half second to reload like a magazine offers a direct advantage in combat by getting you back to firing faster. Out of clips? That's fine, the gun can still self cool, but if you're in a tight spot you'll be waiting a few more seconds, which could end up with you being defenesless at a critical moment. But hey, logistically speaking, all any army needs is a large supply of sheet metal to use as ammo and boom, so logistic concerns about ammo are still gone. And thermal clips are preferential, not completely needed.

[@christopherverhoef9112]

@@cosmiccastawaya90 That was actually the original intent: guns would cool down on their own and you could eject a clip to vent all heat immediately. It got changed for balance reasons.

[@igodreamer7096]

Good point. You see, Bioware have it the answer "in-house", but they lack the competency of better explain this backwards thinking. P.S.: But, even with your Sabotage overheating guns, that stop no one to change weapons on the fly while wait for the other one to cooldown. In the end, it was just a lame excuse to a more casual baiting new consumers, like the very concept of an almost unlimited ammo weapon to be too hard to grasp. *smh*

[@Psych0tikk]

It's one cold day in hell when Conrad Verner is the one talking sense.

[@SMAXZO]

You know what, I'm with Conrad on this one.

[@Thorbast]

Isn't it funny that Shepard is the only one that uses "Thermal Clips"?

[@random3857]

Ah, yes. ''Thermal clips''. A heat sink which weapons store heat in to be ejected later to avoid overheating and allow continuous firing. We have dismissed that claim.

[@NomadNomadCZ]

Thane used it too in his fight against Kai Leng.

[@random3857]

Ah, yes. ''Thane.'' A mortally-sick drell assassin with Keplar-syndrome who lives on the Citadel to stay near doctors. We' have dismissed that claim.

[@Her_Imperious_Condescension]

Apparently not, since everything drops them.

[@NayfaJoinsMinecraft]

@@Her_Imperious_Condescension Ah, yes, "dropping them", the physical action of leaving an object to be let into freefall due to gravitational acceleration. We have dismissed that claim.

[@ApsalusSigma]

I always thought Thermal Clips would have been really useful for getting Assault Rifles loaded with High Explosive ammo to work in Mass Effect 1. Unlimited ammo and cooling is great, unless the weapon can only fire one salvo then go past the red and severely overheat; thus being useless for most of the fight. What I would like to see happen is that when customizing and building a gun, we can choose which type of cooling system is installed. It would be an interesting choice when building a custom (pseudo) heavy weapon between willing to for half of the firefight for the thing to "reload", or having the ability to crazy with dakka but needing to keep an eye on available uses for the whole mission.

[@di7645]

Stabber OpSig you can choose in Andromeda. Ask and you shall receive.

[@Cx10110100]

I think with some Cooling mods and Explosive ammo you could turn Assault rifle into a cannon. I suppose with proper mods cooling ain't a problem if you utilize short bursts

[@zhanbolatmurzashov4001]

Soldiers had a skills that let them fire weapon without over heating for a 10 sec

[@vulthurmir2478]

@@zhanbolatmurzashov4001 also adrenaline rush in ME3 allows an overheated weapon to cool down without having to wait those 3 seconds or so

[@timothyfinch7295]

The absolute seething contempt in Shepard's voice here really says how furious BioWare was at the playerbase for daring to question them pulling the thermal clip nonsense. They might as well have had her turn towards the camera and say, "Get over it, nerds."

[@Her_Imperious_Condescension]

It is a step backwards. You went from infinite ammo to finite ammo.

[@chakinabox]

Conrad: Well I stand by my argument! What, next you're going to tell me we're running low on headlight fluid?

[@NayfaJoinsMinecraft]

First time I agree with Conrad and want to give him a trophy for that, the only person who is not stupid.

[@NoOne-zd6zb]

Its okay, part of the contract to switch to thermal clips was sending a million to every planet randomly for people to pick up

[@royal-wolf]

I love that it was Conrad that called put the flawed system of the weapons

[@raven800plays]

Hey Bioware, just because you make fun of the argument doesn't make it not true

[@Thoralmir]

Guy DOES raise a point.

[@josephmort4039]

And how did Shepard know about thermal clips after he woke up in the Cerberus lab after being dead for two years?

[@arbiteras]

Don't ask legitimate questions, EAware doesn't like them

[@JayV98]

They implemented them not long after the attack on the Citadel.

[@KosherPorky]

Also, during Jacob's loyalty mission, how the hell are there thermal clips? They were astray for a decade

[@mot2296]

@@KosherPorky yes, that mission is a ducy one. Ad they shouldnt habe mechs or zhe weapons zhey are useing either..you cant.make everything perfect

[@CAPT4305]

I love that in the citadel dlc you get one of those guns again. that and the insanely overpowered pistol. That thing was like the magnum from halo

[@themocaw]

my favorite part of the M-7 Lancer is that if you let it overheat Shepard will at first try to pop the thermal clip, burn themselves, and will have to struggle to re-engage the cooldown mechanism. Damn you muscle memory!

[@ThexDynastxQueen]

For once Conrad is right. Why even risk running out of ammo (yes its ammo) when you had cooldown mods that make overheating almost a non issue? The way thermal clips were implemented just seemed like a stupid cheap revamp to grab those into shooters with a boring mechanic they knew even if it made no sense. I want my gun mods back, damn it.

[@777Electric]

By the end of ME1 I could hold down the mouse on every weapon and never have them overheat. There's absolutely no reason to implement thermal clips and the half-assed contradicting "explanation" they gave was retarded.

[@arbiteras]

Yeah,with the ultimate mods that you could only buy at level 60+ Thermal clips fan like to forget that

[@random3857]

No, it isn't ammo'. The definition of ammo' does not fit the thermal clip. The thermal clip doesn't provide the ammo'´, the gun itselfs makes the ammo' and fires it. The thermal clip only allows storage of the heat generated by this process and then you can eject the thermal clip and replace it.

[@arbiteras]

Thermal clips are meant to be ammo. EAware just threw away the cool concept of the upgraded tech in ME1 and reverted to a retarded limited ammo system.

[@TheVergile]

because thats physically impossible. there is a limit how fast you can get rid of heat using convection and conduction. Throwing out thermal mass completely is just a million times more efficient. What use is “infinite ammo” when you can shoot once an hour and its so weak you cant pierce anyones shields?

[@BrotherSurplice]

Man I didn't realise that Conrad was such a gigachad

[@StevesSammiches]

Mass Effect tried to implement a twist on the FPS by not having ammunition, then sort of reneged on it in ME2 by implementing thermal clips. It's nice to see a company that can poke fun at it's own creative decisions. They can be hard sometimes.

[@Jordanationalismtion]

MrWillarti I always considered that to be one of the major issues with Mass Effect 2. Don't get me wrong, it's a great game, but the thermal clips, along with a range of decisions such as the dumbed down leveling system and the utter lack of an in game economy, smacked me of casualising the game to 'reach a wider audience', as this kind of crap is often defended as. The lack of an ammo system was a great concept to me, and it rewarded patience and careful placement of shots if you knew what you were doing, or beyond that, could be exploited once you got quality weapons and upgrades to ensure your guns never overheated. Sure, this was easily exploited but that could have been finagled any number of ways without resorting to, ugh, thermal clips. I always find it frustrating when developers get pushed to alter a sequel to 'reach a wider audience' by dumbing down many of the things that made the game great, or change game mechanics to appeal to said wider audience. If the game was already successful and reaching millions, why does it need to be drastically changed when it's already guaranteed to make you a significant amount of money? If you already have a growing core audience, you don't need to alter everything-- you've already got guaranteed purchases right there, and since said audience is growing you're going to make more. You progress the story, improve on mechanics, add new features if needed and generally make a better game than what you had before. Mass Effect 2 was an improvement in many ways, but it just doesn't compare to the quality and depth that went into ME1. Trying to double your audience by appealing to the casual players or the meatheads in the mainstream can be compared to shooting yourself in the foot and tends to kill that audience overall. Hell, this is what killed Dead Space, and it's what hurt Mass Effect 3.

[@immortalfrieza]

+Jordanationalismtion The very least Bioware could have done is allow for guns to still be manually cooled down after having run out of thermal clips instead of having to carry around guns you hardly ever use just so you wouldn't be completely helpless when you ran out.I think that overall the game mechanics in Mass Effect 2 and 3 were much better, much more fluid and intense, but the near complete lack of RPG elements after the first was a big problem. Mass Effect 1 was an full on action RPG, Mass Effect 2 and 3 were third person shooters with really sparse and barebones RPG elements. The fact that scenes like this exist only makes things worse. Newsflash Bioware, the fact that you make fun of your own game's flaws does not justify having those flaws and in fact only makes it obvious that you know about those flaws and thus have consciously decided to put them EVEN THOUGH YOU KNOW IT'S BAD.

[@JonatasMonte]

+MrWillarti Mass Effect was unique it tried to be different in every way and taht's why I was surprised the first time I played it; even for today's standarts it's still pretty unique and different and that's why I love it. Then we got ME2....

[@pathlastname9278]

+Jordanationalismtion the problem with me1 was that it was complicated for complicated sake. like the leveling system it didnt add more depth it just made the puddle bigger and muddier, when i leveled up in me1 i didnt care because each level was exactly like the last, my main gun got better i'm tankier and my main ability does more damage, that's it but in me2 the smaller leveling pool added choices, each level gave each ability or passive a new thing and it felt like i was getting stronger with each level up, also with the smaller leveling pool they could make the classes unique and give them each their own flare without having to over burden them with pointless hacking stats, like in me1 all of the ability classes sucked because they all played like each other, cc move and then fire, but in 2 vanguards are now superfast close range combatants, infiltrators are single target slippery nukes, adepts played like all ability classes in me1 but it is now unique so on and so forth. and the dumbed down weapon system, while way too dumbed down(they improve that in me3) is better than just comparing stats of randomassgunv5 and boomgunv6 since all you did before was just compared meaningless stats now you dont have to because their is only one or two upgrades, weapon modding was a loss though(they add that back in in me3). also thermal clips are easier to work with when designing AI follower and enemies.

[@DiggitySlice]

@@Jordanationalismtion way too long of a comment to say "I hate normies". Just because making the game less tedious makes it appeal to a wider audience doesn't mean it's bad.

[@NexusDex]

Conrad: „why are you booing me? I‘M RIGHT!“

[@omegazeroINFI]

0:47 bullshit, so ADMIRAL anderson at the beginning of the game is wrong about calling it ammo?

[@random3857]

Probably called ammo' by many but it isn't really ammo. The thermal clip doesn't provide the projectiles, the gun itselfs generate and fires them. The thermal clip only allows the heat made by the gun to be stored in it and ejected.

[@omegazeroINFI]

the problem with that logic is that there would be no reason to discard them if thermal clips are basically just ejectable heatsinks. thinking about it now, i wonder what the game would be like if you could only carry a few and switched between ones that were sufficiently cooled and ones that overheated? on the otherhand, if these things just store heat and never lose it, wouldnt these make good projectiles on their own? (i say never lose it because the amount of shots never goes back up.)

[@random3857]

What would you want to do? Catch a few hundred degrees hot clip in your hand and then put it in your pocket for later use? The thing is, that they require specific venting Components to release all the heat and that takes up room in the gun. Those Components had to be removed to make room for ejectable clips instead and I doubt anyone would give each Soldier a container to store the clip in for cooldown. Simpler this way, worse in the long-run but simpler.

[@omegazeroINFI]

ideally, id say make the gun a tad bit bigger to accommodate it. quite a few weapons could easily be made a smidgen bigger to fit it in instead of trying to cram it into a smaller space. they could still be ejected if you dont wanna wait. even then, is it even physically possible for the heat to never dissipate? i feel that if they really never cool down, that it would cause an untold amount of damage just leaving these things lying around.

[@random3857]

Maybe it's not that easy, maybe the thermal clip/heat sink requires to be somehow integrated to the actual gun Components. Not enough room for both unless you make some kind of revolver rifle or a double-barrel rifle. The clip probably de-heats after time but that could take minutes, in a battle that will be decided in seconds... YOu can't wait mínutes. Or it could be how they are designed, maybe the clips' alloy is a great heat conductor and would naturally degrade over time because they are so good at absorbing heat. All sci-fi universes are based on pseudo-science, or it's mythology or real Life-based, and that leaves alot up for interpretation. Such as how guns work. *For now, we can trust in the simple logics: When kinetic barriers (shields) are involved the one who fires most bullest first wins. Which makes the intergrated heat sink system that utilize a cooldown inefficient. Because the system is universal there is no real risk of running out of thermal clips as everyone who uses projectile-based weapons have thermal clips and their can be scavenged. If they run out of thermal clips they are probably fighting non-weaponized enemies and those can be dealth with Heavy weapons or melee attacks.*

[@memesnahgee5259]

Sincs are literally ammo with extra steps

[@SignumInterriti]

I Like how bioware all but straightup says "look, we know, ok?"

[@tolkienblack]

But it literally is ammunition. I’m with Conrad on this one

[@ellienixon3437]

I like the idea that the gun manufacturers of the galaxy realised that they could make way more money by switching to and then selling thermal clips.

[@davidt4418]

That was like the one of major shocks when I played ME2 for first time :D. The others were death of Shepard right out at start, and the playing as Joker before ending.

[@mchelpa]

Headcannon is that there was some breakthrough with kinetic shield tech that made less powerful passively cooled weapons not just less effective, but in effect useless. They still exist, they’ve just been effectively relegated to museum pieces. The solution was to massively increase the power that weapons had and dump the massive amount of resultant heat into a tiny amount of mass with mass effect tech, enough that it’d take hours for it to passively cool, so ejecting that mass and replacing it ended up being the most viable solution that worked.

[@turdferguson1989]

Played an infiltrator/sniper/insanity run, and thermal clips are what made me rage the most in ME2 & 3. How the game forces you from the HMWSR X to the M-92 Mantis is an absolute travesty

[@the_sam_strong]

"It's not ammunition" but it really is the same concept... Which is a step backwards. Conrad is right here always thought the same thing. The cool thing about the first game was that you had to be careful not overheating your weapons while shooting which was a cool new mechanic, then they just decided to make it like any other shooting game including limited thermal clips which are basically ammos...

[@generalmaul4615]

I really don't know why they couldn't make a sort of thermal clip/cooldown hybrid weapon. The cooldown feature had to be sacrificed to add this but couldn't they wait and improve it until they can put both features into one weapon instead of giving everyone down-graded crap? I wished the devs actually addressed it instead of telling everyone they fucked up through Conrad...

[@arbiteras]

They did,as in ME2 there's still an hybrid system The "ammo" regenerates as time goes,but the Beta testers didn't like it and Eaware changed it You can reactivate it by tweaking the .ini

[@generalmaul4615]

Yeah I know that, but it's terribly balanced if you add it into the game (from what I've heard anyway). I heard the sort of system is coming back in Andromeda, which i'm happy about, just hope it's done right as to not make the game too easy.

[@arbiteras]

you can tweak it if you want,regen rate

[@generalmaul4615]

Interesting, but i'm not great at balancing. I'm sure there's an optimal tweak somewhere but I can't really be bothered to look for it ha.

[@arbiteras]

General Maul EAware should have left the original overheat system,it felt really refreshing

[@PsychoHobbit1]

Thermal clips were developed based on Geth battlefield studies, but the funny thing is they can build high powered shock-absorbers into their arms and have at least a few hundred programs in any monile platform helping with aiming. Anyone who doesn't have this advantage cannot possibly stay on a person-sized target with sutained fire, so the extra rounds per minute are absolutely useless.

[@arbiteras]

Funny thing is that if you're lucky enough to get a Geth weapon in ME1,they function the same way of human assault rifles It's just an asspull to make the game more COD\GOW-ish

[@DiggitySlice]

@@arbiteras "waaaa they made the game more like a shooter waaaaa"

[@skeetsvar162]

@@DiggitySlice Yep. The fact that you don't see the problem with this says volumes. Not to mention the childish way you respond to these issues displays a severe lack of mental maturity.

[@jfangm]

@@DiggitySlice It was never a shooter to begin with. It had elements of a shooter, but was always marketed as an action RPG with guns instead of swords. ME 2 and 3 changed that for the worse.

[@davidlewis1418]

@@jfangm Making the combat actually enjoyable does not mean the rpg aspect of it has died. You can have your cake and eat it too.

[@endarus6053]

After discovering a mod combo in ME1 that let me fire my assault rifle indefinitely without having to cool down, im with Conrad on this one.

[@mythdragon2000]

Conrad asks all the questions I was wondering. Good job, Verner.

[@dacis2]

M7 Lancer + upgraded thermal clips + recoil stabilization is my favorite gun by far in ME3

[@joejosa8467]

That's why they brought the Prothean Gun in ME3 for the sane folks.

[@hoduonggiabao538]

We could consider the reduction of cost and weight of a thermal clip compare to a magazine. It doesn’t have inconveniences of ammunition but still can be fired a lot more.

[@s0ulsurviv0r74]

My theory here, bout the Thermal Clip Debacles, is that the Reapers Indoctrinated Military Leaders in charge of weapons distribution, and when the Thermal Clip was starting to pick up speed, they completely got rid of the older guns that didn't use thermal clips, therefore leaving the galaxy a little unprepared for the reapers

[@Sixshotz1337]

Conrad: you might as well go back to gunpowder and bannana clips

[@jfangm]

Why would I use audio input terminals in a gun?

[@whyidkwhy]

this is something they could've brought back in Mass Effect Andromeda but no they even fucked that up.

[@gagislobista2]

"amateurs discuss tactics professionals discuss logictics" -napoleon im definitely for overheating , thermal clips are probably the first indicator of malignant EA influence to make in more like generic FPS

[@DiggitySlice]

Fixing bugs is making a game "generic" by that logic

[@juliagoetia]

@@DiggitySlice ...Not even close

[@addisonwelsh]

Except that thermal clips being a universal ammunition type not only eases logistics, but also makes salvaging ammo from dead enemies a viable form of resupply.

[@steelbear2063]

@@addisonwelsh Yeah only you added two things that need to be done. Unlimited ammo is also universal and you won't need to scavenge enemy corpses. If you're even allowed to do so.

[@sherlockhooves574]

@@addisonwelsh Just no. All you needed before was a block of metal - that was literally it. They could shoot thousands of rounds before being replaced, and the other parts - like the heat sink and such - lasted for the life of the rifle. Logistics simply weren't a concern. Now, you have thermal clips that need to be replaced, and you still have the original blocks of metal. The thermal clips are universal, and they do make salvaging ammunition viable, but that's still strictly worse than not needing to worry about them in the first place. You still need the blocks of metal for projectiles, plus the addition of thermal clips. That's not an improvement, no matter how standardized thermal clips are.

[@Kuripants]

WELL AT LEAST SOMEONE HAS SOME GODDAMNED SENSE.

[@Zoibek]

So if Bioware is completely aware that thermal clips are stupid then why add it?

[@mrosera]

I'm guessing EA told them to.

[@ethanmeyn475]

The art book says they sailed back how futuristic the guns looked and fired to make them more appealing/relatable to everyone, pluss I can't see the mattock a semi auto working with the instant kick in of the round counter going up after u stop firing cause u technically stop after every shot

[@Meep1111]

Apparently the original idea was to have both clips and the regular system - basically you could pop in a clip immediately if you couldn't wait for it to cool down. Turns out it completely broke the game to have both, as in some weapons were hilariously overpowered so they scrapped that idea and just went with the clips. Apparently the system is still in the game - edit some files and you can use both systems like they originally planned.

[@bloodymares]

***** What? How? I know that you can tweak the game to auto-replenish ammo (okay, cool down, whatever) but then you can't use thermal clips and when ammo-count reaches 0 you have to wait which is annoying.

[@Meep1111]

I'm not sure of the exact specifics, I just got the info from tv tropes.

[@dolphinofthedeep4292]

If overheat was so bad I would’ve never used the Prothean beam rifle

[@nathanstultz3434]

I prefer the M7 Lancer myself.

[@lancerd4934]

...and that's why I run with the M7 Lancer on all my me3 playthroughs.

[@shaydorahl6740]

Hybrid system for mass effect 4 anyone?

[@antonkirilenko3116]

Well, since you asked... In the new Mass Effect: Andromeda you do have an option switch a gun to cool down system instead of thermal clips.

[@soku890]

You have? YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

[@OperationDEEZ]

Is it a really rare expensive research project?

[@Freyrin]

OperationDEEZ not at all. I love that they made it an option. You get one copy when you research it, which lets you find it in game or from enemies. The heavy widow sniper only has one shot anyways; so I slapped it on that badboy and boom, infinite widow ammo

[@02091992able]

or use the remnant guns.

[@dark7element]

I, for one, actually liked the aesthetics of thermal clips. I thought it was really cool to see a red-hot glowing rod getting ejected and rolling around on the floor (and even starting fires in cutscenes!). The problem is that it just made no sense and felt like a step backwards to have NO cooldown whatsoever. What was even the point of removing weapon cooldown completely? There's lots of thermal clips everywhere so it isn't like the player ever really needs to conserve ammo.

[@shaydorahl6740]

totally disagree, But seriously that photo is fucking creepy pasta.

[@MasterAssasin63]

I agree. Plus hypothetically it makes some sense. Weapons that heat up to excessive qualities tend to have issues with mechanisms and parts. Look at LMG and HMG's that can get to high temperatures. They have barrel change mechanisms which allow for safe continued operation which draws a parallel to Thermal clips in some way which in theory could help preserve weapons from heat damage and allow continuous safe operation and plus it's more safe to have a gun that needs ammo as opposed to one that's always loaded.

[@random3857]

It's not a rod, more like a clip. Hence the name. And it does make perfect sense. The simple rule of guns is ''the one who fires most bullets first, fastest, wins.'' It simply stores the heat in it to be ejected rather than waiting for it to cool down, which required additional Components which were replaced.

[@DantesInferno96]

Aesthetics? Lol please. The thermal clips disappear as soon as they hit the ground. As do the bodies. Mass effect aesthetics only matter if you're wandering through the space or going on different planets.

[@DiggitySlice]

@@DantesInferno96 complaining that the game doesnt try to crash it's own engine by making everything persistent? You're reaching pretty far to hate on the game

[@kalreegarvasneema9101]

Wow, I actually agree with Conrad over Shepard on this.

[@BaranZenon]

And the funniest thing is that M-7 Lancer, that weapon unlocked after finishing the Citadel DLC, which is an Assault Rifle from First Contact War, so OG design with cooling mechanism, is the best AR in the game. So that idea of super-charing guns at the cost of having unlimited ammo flew out of the window with that one . Not to mention the weapon that suppose to replace it, M-8 Avenger, is a massive downgrade :D

[@donskiver]

Sorry Shep. Conrad is right. The in universe explanation is fine, but let's make no mistake; it was introduced for gameplay reasons and balancing. The whole "the geth sent more round downrange by using thermal clips so let's switch to that" is kind of stupid because thermal clips have weight, take up space, and machines don't care about weight but soldiers do. If it's a matter of sending more rounds downrange then you just get more soldiers to shoot and keep your infinite ammo system in place.

[@arx3516]

the problem is that the in-universe explanation makes little sense, a much better explanation could have been that the Geth were almost immune to the tiny metal shavings fired by previous weapons, so they had to adopt much more powerful projectiles, wich are as big as the ones used in real life.

[@josephnigel8811]

Combine big bullets with the need for sustained fire. In universe it's not too different for why SMGs were developed. You might ask and say it's stupid to carry more bullets with less weight but with less penetrative power and less range, but SMGs are amazing for room clearing trench clearing and making small forces more viable. Not to mention this event was basically 9/11 for the ME universe, I could easily believe that theyd take it as a security measure against Geth forces if it means using bigger bullets and sacrifices a tactically disandvantagious function like cool down without a quick change barrel. Every current doctrine of war establishes that a quick change barrel is to be carried to support a machinegun section for sustained continuous fire. If one can keep fire going continually and just have to pop out some coolant. But doesn't stop the barrage of metal, it's an easy choice for brute force suppression tactics, which mass effect is based around. Suppress and penatrate or be suppressed and penatrated.

[@GOLDFINGER-24k]

Conrad: "You're booing me when I'm right!"

[@magmos6346]

Smartest thing Conrad has ever said.

[@JeffHikari]

Laser weapons in Helldivers 2 take his advice! You can wait to let them cool down, or you can replace the heat sink to fully cool it down instantly. Oh but if you let it overheat it blows out the heat sink and you HAVE to replace it.

[@serpenthydra]

Playing through the Legendary Edition now with the 'antiquated' Lancer that can fire 82 shots between cooldowns, I wished they'd allowed the guns to still fire after running out of thermal clips, perhaps at a reduced capacity. Sort of like an emergency redundancy mode, seeing as it would be one less supply line issue in a war of attrition with the Reapers...!

[@rprince418]

Ok, I actually agree with Conrad on that one. It really does feel like a freaken step back.

[@leafleap]

So they replace all the guns in the universe? How did they manage that? So some universe police went around and told everyone to replace their fully functional guns to a new less functional type with limitations, even the warring and hostile factions? You would be hard pressed to replace all the guns on earth, even today. Maybe they just engaged some built in kill-switch over wifi and told everyone to buy new guns.

[@beleakswordsteel]

Well the guns in ME1 didn't have unlimited ammo. They shaved a small piece off a metal block that sat inside the weapon. As the weapon fired, it shaved off more and more pieces of the metal eventually causing it to overheat. Eventually there'll be nothing more on that chunk. I saw someone else comment that maybe the universe's arms dealers got greedy and stopped selling the ammo and guns they used before to make more money off thermal clips. Because once you bought the gun and the metal block, that's essentially all the money they'd get from you aside from the seldom purchase of a new block of metal for the gun. Much more lucrative to sell thermal clips instead. I'd guess when those blocks ran out people had no other option but to make the switch. It's not a great explanation I know, but it's something.

[@blooperman1997]

@@beleakswordsteel The ammunition blocks are just hunks of metal. You can make one in your backyard lol.

[@l-shadow1775]

Why would geth have thermal clips in there weapons when geth weapons should be unlimited ammo like the prothean rifle

[@Solvernia]

@@beleakswordsteel Bruh the thermal clip guns still use the metal block

[@sclair2854]

Everyone else can have their clips. I want my frictionless material specter gear gun back - -

[@AngryNerdBird]

Trading away the ability to endlessly restore your shots in exchange for being able to fire slightly faster at the cost of requiring disposable clips is a step backwards, period.

[@TheVergile]

“slightly faster” try a few thousand times. But i mean yeah - if you want to shoot once every 5 minutes you are welcome to do so. Maybe if you ask the enemies theyll spread out their arrival for you.

[@DiggitySlice]

I can't tell if it was intentional irony to put "period" and then have a big empty space after it

[@blooperman1997]

@@TheVergile Clips might be better for small squad shit like what Shephard does. If you're supplying an army then there's literally no way you'd trade not having to supply ammunition for anything in the world. Not to mention they somehow managed to convert an entire galaxy's worth of weapons to this system in like 2 years? The explanation is a load of garbage. It was done for gameplay, plain and simple.

[@TheVergile]

@@blooperman1997 no, the galaxy has been on this standard for ages. its humanity that is adapting to this change. (i mean in reality its just a game design decision, but that seems to be the most likely scenario to me) Are you sure about that? Lets look at this with a real world comparison: would the military swap in their machine huns and automatic rifles for 9mm pistols if the ammo on these would magically replenish? Because this is whats entailed in this trade: a severe loss of both firepower and fire rate. A much lower energy budget all in all. Somehow i doubt this is the case. If the military wanted to carry less ammo around all they need to do is remove automatic weapons from their arsenal. Yet no military in the world would do this.

[@TheVergile]

@@blooperman1997 tho if the technology is there it would of course make sense to have SOME of the no-ammo-required weaponry around. Same as nowadays we still carry sidearms. An ammo-replenishing sidearms would be incredibly useful. Because any unit running out of ammo would loose a lot of its firepower, but on the other hand even a complete lack of ammo would never render a unit completely useless

[@egeorgiades93]

Thermal Clip = High Tech Ammunition

[@CrazyCannuk804]

Conrad Verner the Hero we deserved.

[@DocRob23]

I kind of get what they meant. The thermal clip allowed soldiers to provide sustained fire, without waiting for a weapon to cool down. The codex said trained soldiers can pop a clip into the weapon in just a second or two, which was quicker than waiting for a weapon to cool down. I just think it would have worked better if they merged the two systems. Have thermal clips, but if you run out, you can keep firing, the gun will just overheat if you go to long, requiring a cooldown.

[@DocRob23]

Plus, with new tech abilities being introduced that overheated your gun even when not firing (Used by the Geth a LOT) the clip would provide a way to fix that. I guess.

[@DantesInferno96]

That's cool but when you have a shotgun that can pop only three rounds per clip with less damage than a heavy pistol, you know something is wrong with the system. For that reason, barely anyone plays Vanguard in Me2 or 3 and even less people use shotguns. Thermal clips were a downgrade in this case. And powers such as Charge and Shockwave were useless if you were playing on a higher difficulty level. I preferred my barrier power from ME 1

[@insanegamer23899]

He's right y'know.

[@medhurst4]

i can't stop laughing me and my brother had this very same argument when we first played ME2

[@loganbill4209]

They contradict this in the Citadel DLC when you find the M7 avenger, which uses the old system, in the vault theres a recording from the first contact war a team of turians interrogating a human mocks them for using guns that overheat.

[@nikik5567]

Which is made funnier by the fact that the M7 is more powerful than the M8 that replaced it.

[@gavir4379]

@@nikik5567 I think that's a result of the refurbishing that the collector did to it.

[@nikik5567]

@@gavir4379 the collector? It’s in a government vault

[@gavir4379]

@@nikik5567 The codex entry for it indicates a collector had it refurbished before it was then placed in the vault.

[@nikik5567]

@@gavir4379 uh huh. Refurb doesn’t make a gun more powerful tho. Just wanted to put that out there as an armorer.

[@PowerJugs]

Conrad, you have wise words for a change.

[@Effective_tool_of_Satan]

This is a fantastic joke but thing is, every single problem Mass Effect 3 has, started in Mass Effect 2.

[@wiilov]

It's true, even with ME2 being my favorite, it's the predecessor to each problem in ME3, right down to the railroading story. I'm sorry, I HAVE to believe that the Krogan deserve a cure? Really?

[@Spawnfreak]

Yes, exactly

[@adamb89]

The one thing thermal clips have going for them is they're one size fits all. The same thermal clip that fits your M8 Avenger also fits your Reegar Carbine.

[@mksmike]

You know how you solve the overheating problem? Firing in small bursts, like you do with actual rifles. Even with limited ammunition no trained soldier empties their magazine in one go like a lunatic.

[@welkingunther5417]

Unless it's a Krogan maybe. They aren't exactly easy to take down, to say the least.

[@mksmike]

@@welkingunther5417 Well against a bullet sponge like that maybe a shotgun or a sniper. Or HE ammo. Definitely heatsink upgrade. Either way I'm with Conrad on this one, if you have to reload you might as well just go back to limited ammo. The guns would be a lot less expensive to make, too.

[@welkingunther5417]

@@mksmike Depends on what you've got on hand maybe, as in a more likely scenario, I think, you wouldn't have the right weapons for every engagement. Regardless, I think for Krogan, doing a magdump is pretty acceptable, to make sure they're actually dead since those bastards are so tough to take down.

[@mksmike]

@@welkingunther5417 I'm not arguing against that. Do a mag dump if you need to. My point is, you lose time before you can fire again either way, so introducing a system that also limits your ammo is dumb.

[@welkingunther5417]

@@mksmike Fair enough, I understand that. From a gameplay perspective, I don't really mind having limited ammo, makes me care more about where my shots are heading, cause in ME1, I didn't really give a damn about my accuracy or anything since there was no ammo to lose, and kinda promoted a spray and pray kind of thinking to a degree. While yes, there was overheating, it was manageable enough, depending on the weapon, but in 2 and 3 now I actually care about being fully accurate, and besides, the ammo is common and universal so not that difficult in my experience to restock. On top of that, I've noticed that reloading makes you ready to shoot again faster than waiting for the weapon to cool down. Outside of combat or something, this doesn't fully matter, but in combat, every second counts and the longer you're unable to fire, the worse things get I'd say.

[@CecilyThanador]

Honestly? A retcon would have been easier. Just say that they used Thermal Clips/Ammo since the beginning of Mass Effect 1 and everything would be alright. (They obviously wrote themselves into a corner by giving the weapons unlimited ammo) But, you could find some reasonable arguments for thermal clips. Let's say the defensive capabilities increased drastically with more powerful kinetic barriers and better armor. They increased that much, that the old weapons were merely peashooters not powerful enough to deal with it and turning up the power would let the weapon overheat even faster. Now you switch to thermal clips which give your weapon more firepower, can be reloaded in under a second (faster than waiting that the overheated weapon cools off) and "ammo" is plentiful. They don't have their own cooling system anymore, because the weapon would become unhandable (too big, too heavy by everyone smaller than a Krogan. This is at least my head cannon.

[@BeastArmorKing]

I miss my pistol with the "friction martial X" + pistol max level up = rapid-firing pistol that kills all

[@gaigeschaal9070]

Ah, glad to see the military industrial complex made it into interstellar travel

[@RuiRuichi]

Lol Dual Frictionless Materials Weapon Mod(Or substitute one with Scram Rail) just made ME1 a breeze. Add in a Snowblind Ammo Mod and literally you can fire a Spectre Pistol/Assault Rifle/Shotgun till the end of time with no overheating. Unlimited "Ammo" from the best weapons....it's just game breaking towards the end especially when Overkill or Marksman is maxed really overpowered. Can't believe armies of all species didn't consider it even if it was Spectre-grade only. You can cruise around Reaper territory dual wielding two assault rifles with those mods.

[@NayfaJoinsMinecraft]

+RuiRuichi Just imagine, grabbing two sniper rifles and shooting them like they're semi-auto rifles from WWII, Except with UNLIMITED!!! AMMO!!!

[@DantesInferno96]

They could have improved upon that mechanism and made it more challenging. You know, it's commonly known as nerfing. They do that a lot in pay to win games. It could have been done here

[@Junebug89]

A lot of people seem to be taking seriously what is obviously a joke. Bioware clearly changed it because they thought having reloading be part of combat made it more enjoyable (and FWIW, I agree with them, while playing ME1 I found myself thinking how weird the combat felt without reloading).

[@GoldenProxyy]

Conrad has a point.

[@CyarSkirata]

My brother and I have felt for awhile that keeping at least a Kessler - possibly a Lancer too - in Shepherd's loadout as a backup would not only have made a lot of sense in-universe, but would have solved the problem in ME3 of cutscenes often needing a pistol or assault rifle to be used but not being able to guarantee Shep would have anything equipped that shot the right kind of rounds - so conjuring a default Predator or Avenger regardless of loadout. Once or twice I've also speculated on the idea of soldiers carrying a coolable heat sync compatible with the thermal clip port to give some amount of guaranteed cooling - albeit probably less efficient than the old self-cooling guns Or perhaps they could be equipped with a couple of emergency clips that sacrifice some of their capacity to be reusable, and those clips could be stowed in a device that also cools them, probably worn somewhere in the waist or chest area.

[@themagnus2919]

Out of all people.... Conrad Verner agrees with me......... That's hilarious.

[@quentinhirschfeld9382]

Dumbest thing ever, from a logistic standpoint, no thermal clip is far better. I'm happy the new devs acknowledge the stupid mistake made in ME2.

[@Shishomuru]

Thermal clips are diffidently a step backwards. What I find funny is that thermal clips don't naturally disperse heat over time, and are never seen being loaded into weapons. Imagine if you ran a gun dry and had to sit through a 10+ second animation of your character shoving a bunch of clips into there weapon before it can fire again. It made no sense, also why the fuck do cryo rounds generate heat?

[@Contemplativeman101]

I agree that counting shots and infinite ammo was far better. Though the cryo argument is a bit flawed. We all know, for instance, that running an AC on a car raises the temperature of the vehicle motor. So a gun would likely heat up either way also.

[@arbiteras]

That's why it should have been a GUN mod just like in ME1, where you could customize your own guns with unique projectiles.

[@Fucisko]

Depending on how the cryo ammo works, it could theoretically generate more heat than normal ammo. Ever try touching a fridge ( depending on the age and quality ) from the side?

[@DiggitySlice]

@@arbiteras every comment from you is just hating everything that isn't ME1. Go away.

[@arbiteras]

@@DiggitySlice Fuck off, kid.

[@Tlhague998]

I'm so glad they actually addressed this.

[@KiragIG]

Conrad is absolutely right this time. I was almost constantly short on ammo during ME2. If given gun has enough ammo, it hasn't adequate power or accuracy (or both) - like most ARs or SMGs. On the other side - nice punch and accuracy, but very few rounds avaliable - SRs and pistols. So God bless that prothean laser from ME3. Yes, it's heavy. Yes, it's weak (but extremly accurate). But ammo problem is no more. Just cool it down in time - or it'll just takes longer. Awesome tool of destruction.

[@sheldoncruz9428]

Glad they gave that sudden switch of features an in game explaination

[@MrSpartan993]

I'm with nanoradio and SMAXZO (and by default, Conrad) on this one. Big step backwards in both the in-universe logic and real-world gameplay/originality.

[@robertherrick6703]

I must've missed this part back when I played the game. Thanks for uploading!

[@clpfox]

i played mass effect 1 and completed it not too long ago, then i continued it in two... and damn i hated the thermal clips, it seems so impractical and stupid and its like ea got there hands on it and turned it into more of a shooter than an rpg.

[@user-hi4sm3ig5j]

+clpfox This is what happened...

[@legoferrari14]

+clpfox I honestly hate the overheating system in ME1. It just goes against my instinct from playing other shooter games, because when I try to reload, I end up wasting one of my grenades! The thermal clips were overall a much-needed upgrade in ME2 as it felt much more natural to use.

[@yeahright2]

+Billy Raymond It's almost as if they made an rpg and not a shooter in ME1.

[@legoferrari14]

yeahright2 The gameplay is primarily shooter-based with RPG elements, similar to the likes of Borderlands and Fallout, so excuse me for expecting traditional reload systems for shooter-based combat, especially for the handguns.

[@yeahright2]

Billy Raymond You're excused.

[@rayclay3249]

I wonder if it could've worked if they had combined both systems ? There's still thermal clips but once you run out of thermal clips, the guns reverts back to how it was in ME1 with cooling but reduced damage (like Bioware explained). The gameplay would still be fast-paced with the "thermal clips" system and it wouldn't look like the whole weapon system seemingly got downgraded in just 2 years.