Mastering the Art of Healthy Eating: Diet Tips and Nutrition Research | Dr Willett | The Proof

Join me in Episode #266 for a two-hour exchange with Dr Walter Willett, the most cited nutritional scientist in the world. An absolute powerhouse of knowledge, Dr. Willett has published over 2000 studies and shares key insights in this episode to help you lay the foundations of a healthy diet.
👇 Visit The Proof website for the full show notes and supporting studies. 👇 theproof.com/podcast/
If you’re looking to recentre your nutrition philosophy with the guidance of a true expert, this is the episode for you. Dr Willett’s approach steps away from silver bullet solutions and embraces a comprehensive approach that can be applied to almost any diet, leaving you with actionable advice you can implement right now.
Dr. Walter Willett is a physician, epidemiologist, and Professor of Epidemiology and Nutrition at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health. He served as Chair of the Department of Nutrition at Harvard for 25 years. Much of his work has been on the development of methods, using both questionnaire and biochemical approaches, to study the effects of diet on the occurrence of major diseases. He is a member of the National Academy of Medicine and the recipient of many national and international awards for his research.
Specifically, we discuss:
00:00 - Introduction
04:10 - Which Foods Should You Eat to Stay Healthy?
06:39 - Does the Quality of Foods Matter?
08:29 - The Impact of the Average American Diet on Health
11:05 - Do We Have Sufficient Evidence on How Nutrition Impacts Our Health?
14:03 - Key Tasks/Leaves to Make Healthy Choices
15:09 - How Diet Patterns Have Changed from the 70s till Now
18:20 - Walter Willet: A Nutrition Story
19:40 - Ancel Keys' Research on Fat
27:45 - Three Large Observation Studies by Walter Willet and His Team
33:12 - Advantages of Large Observation Studies over Randomized Control Trials
39:40 - Correlation and Causation in Nutrition
51:23 - Food Frequency Questionnaire: Importance of Methods for Measuring Dietary Intake
55:44 - Biochemical Analysis in Three Cohort Observations of Walter Willet's Studies
1:01:02 - Are Low-Fat Diets Good for Cardiovascular Health?
1:03:04 - Polyunsaturated Fats and Cardiovascular Disease
1:08:41 - Benefits of Switching from Saturated Fat to Unsaturated Fats
1:09:13 - Is Dairy Bad or Good?
1:12:09 - Should You Consume Full-Fat or Low-Fat Dairy?
1:16:25 - Daily Recommendation for Dairy Consumption
1:21:26 - Can You Be Healthy Without Consuming Dairy?
1:23:45 - Confusion Surrounding Unprocessed Red Meat
1:26:40 - What is Substitution Analysis?
1:28:30 - Insights into the Research Process
1:30:06 - Contrast and Exposure in Research
1:34:13 - Safe Intake of Red Meat
1:35:02 - Is Grass-Fed Beef Good for Me?
1:37:05 - Is White Meat Better Than Red Meat?
1:37:46 - Fish vs. Legumes: A Comparison
1:41:15 - Dietary Cholesterol and Its Impact on Human Health
1:44:45 - The Best Diet for a Healthy Life
1:47:36 - Outro
More from Dr Walter Willett:
- Harvard Academic Profile: www.hsph.harvard.edu/profile/...
- Eat, Drink, and Be Healthy: The Harvard Medical School Guide to Healthy Eating: www.booktopia.com.au/eat-drin...
If you have any additional questions you would like answered in the future, let me know in the comments.
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Enjoy, friends.
Simon
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[@PlantChompers]

Fantastic!! I think he's the most accomplished, knowledgeable and accurate nutrition scientist in the business. His comments on Ancel Keys and the French paradox are the best I've ever heard. 👏

[@beepbeepnj2658]

Harvard health expert Dr. Walter Willett admitted in the 1980's he told his patients to use margarine and shortening because it was heart healthy and had no cholesterol or animal fats. He forgot to tell them it was made from rancid deodorized partially hydrogenated cottonseed oil which was loaded with trans fats which destroyed humans health. Harvard health expert Dr. Fredrick J. Stare said soda and other sugary foods were a good healthy snack and other things that destroyed the health of humanity.

[@beepbeepnj2658]

Willett knew Fred Kummerow in the 1970's but never paid any attention to him about cheap, rancid deodorized trans fats because he sized up Kummerow as a small, non money hungry, non attention getting, non loud mouthed, behind the scenes nobody.

[@renakarv4614]

Funny thing: And it was Chris from PlantChompers who came in my my mind when he mentioned Ancel Keys.. haha 🤭 🍌

[@ClassicJukeboxBand]

BTW, Ancel Keys work probably has killed and ruined the health of more people than Hitler, Stalin and Mao combined, and you listen to this garbage?

[@dougupton1203]

You my friend are the guru

[@alainsauvage]

This is my favourite podcast, here are some reasons why: Simon listens well; asks insightful questions that amplify the key message; makes clear the ‘so what can I do practically in my life now to incorporate this knowledge’; is unafraid of echo chamber conversations - open to difference whilst still looking for common ground; skilfully challenges perspectives not informed in science. As a person working so hard to deal with a number of health issues, this clarity helps me to find several helpful starting points. Many thanks. Looking forward to arthritis and it’s role in inflammation pathways and comorbidities - and most importantly ways forward! Keep up this brilliant work!

[@marcjacobson757]

His explanation of how epidemiological studies can be made more methodologically sound and therefore more meaningful was enlightening. The entire conversation felt like it deserved another 4 or 5 hours for deep dives into the various topics covered. Dr. Willett's subject expertise and his history in the field were a real treat.

[@krisfarrugia6490]

Simon, kudos on your brilliant selection of guests. I'm truly grateful to have access to such conversations. Thank you.

[@thomashanson4576]

What a monumental figure in the nutrition World, thank you for this Simon!

[@kst157]

Amazing interview - Dr. Walter Willett is incredibly knowledgeable and articulate, and is able to explain at any detail needed and wisely about any nutritional area - a brilliant and wide ranging discussion and full of very wise words indeed - thank you Simon and Walter for such an incredible episode - and happy birthday to you both tomorrow! I really hope I’m half as sharp and articulate at 78 years as Dr. Willett.

[@RiDankulous]

I bought WIllett's book called Eat, Drink and Be Healthy and it's worth the money: it has an abundance of citation supported information and I trust the less biased nature as compared to those who support specific food pattern types and gain profit from those or loosely related nutrition supplements. I will continue to be whole food-plant based (wfpb) and follow strictly the whole food-plant based diet with Starch Solution by John Mcdougall, but the area of whole food-plant based diet and related KZbin videos are biased in the same ways that Keto and Carnivore are. Based on what I read there is no harm to sticking with wfpb as long as I take a B12 supplement, and possibly have to watch omega-3 fat foods intake.

[@AdnAwd24]

Just in time, after I've finished reading "Eat, Drink and Be Healthy" few days ago with time I'm appreciating Dr Walter Willett knowledge more and more, and he has become essential part of my foundational nutritional knowledge. Happy birthday Dr Willet and Simon, thank you so much

[@user-tj3kn8qy4h]

Dr. Willet is a true font of invaluable nutritional insights. The long-term nurses' eating studies have been invaluable. I most admire him for emphasizing that the world needs to aim for a low impact on the climate crisis when making food choices. I agree that keeping dairy products use down and red meat use as low as possible will benefit our climate the most. He really makes me pause when he says that driving down cholesterol too low may create a greater risk for hemorrhagic stroke, as in Japan!? I will need to look into this, as I avoid all meat, dairy, and eggs to keep away from saturated fats. If too little cholesterol may increase bleeding stroke risk, I may have to check into this. Dietary issues are indeed complex!

[@christinsimonogryzlo3848]

Simon - love your shows. Listen to all of them. Just exceptional work and research! Kudos to you and your team. Learn so much from your guests. Important information. Never regret spending time listening and educating myself ❤

[@carinaekstrom1]

Happy birthday to Dr. Walter Willet, and thanks for having him on, such a knowledgeable man. Edit: Oh, just found out it's also Simon's birthday, so happy birthday to both of you!

[@jacoboferriol6462]

Thank you for this episode. I really hope another episode with Dr. Willet is coming. ✌🏼

[@Joy80JJ]

Thank you Simon. I always learn something new from your interviews.

[@arleenm7367]

Thanks for the information! I'm especially grateful for the concerns Dr. Willett brought up about Climate Change and the effects of food choices on the environment.

[@Annet-yg8zu]

Great podcasts. I am learning every day, driving my car to work, listening. You and your guest have the best Information and i hope the words spread more and more throughout this world in the same unprejudiced way to help more people. Happy birthday !

[@regmirvis]

What an enlightening episode, handed to us with excellence. Appreciate your dedication, Simon!

[@cyclamen831]

Dear Simon, you did it again! This was a fantastic interview with Dr Willett. Thank you for being such a great communicator in the crazy space of social media. One thing I still struggle is this idea of the protein -quality and quantity. I know Dr Willett seems to have a balances approach considering the social and environmental impact of the animal industry.Perhaps we can revisit the various argument at one point? I was WFPB for 5 years, but ended up not doing so well ( became anemic) and so I have reintroduced small portions of animal foods and I am doing better. I am a female in the over 55 age group and everywhere I turn I am bombarded with "eat more protein, anabolic resistance, sarcopenia". Even at my little weight of 53kg (169cm height) I am supposed to have about 75-100 gm a day if not more! I do not think I ever ate that much protein in my entire life. The only way I can reach some days those values are with protein shakes/ snacks. I think this is crazy as they must be in the ultra processed food categories. I have also not heard a clear explanation why should I have bulky muscles rather than a lean and agile body able to react quickly to obstacles. Another consideration: why should I consume more and more protein as I get older and closer to death and subtract protein to the young and growing population? Not to mention the social impact with regard under and malnourished parts of the world. Sorry, I know this is a lot but at least I hope I start getting some clarity. Thanks for all you do!

[@yogiyoda]

Thanks for this interview! I especially enjoyed the section where you discussed correlation vs causation

[@sandyglover736]

This was a great episode Simon. You very clearly respect Walter Willet, as do I, you’re truly a class act in your interview style. Well done! 👍👍

[@lizabeththompson6113]

Enjoying the channel. I found out last Friday that my cholesterol total cholesterol is 361. I hv lower blood pressure. Almost a yr ago I went vegan. Mostly vegan. They put me on a statin 10mg and Coq10 100mg I’m hitting the gym daily hoping for better results in 6 months. Thanks for the education.

[@ramonmuniz8439]

Very refreshing view point on nutrition and health, considering how much nonsense is out there in social media, thanks,

[@Amshatelia88]

Dr. Willett is a legend!

[@SuperBookdragon]

Wonderful podcast and guest. I like the way he pulled out the nuances in his studies as well as others to explain how real research works. I would like to have heard about the effects increased serving sizes have had on the American Public.

[@SuperBookdragon]

Thankyou Simon

[@veganpundit1]

Fascinating discussion! 🎯💯🙏

[@LEADERINFRONT]

Great episode, thanks guys!

[@lovewings66]

Wonderful talk and very insightful. This is my first time listening to Simon Hill. I was very impressed with his intelligent questions and how he concisely summed up the main points at the end. I'm so grateful to Dr. Willett's wealth of knowledge and years of experience. I do have a question about soy being recommended as a good plant protein source. It's been my understanding, though could be incorrect, that most soy is genetical modified these days. Has genetically modified foods been studied for longterm affects on human health?

[@jbidwell605]

Outstanding and informative interview with Dr Willett. Thank you so much!

[@TheProofWithSimonHill]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@bodyimagept4398]

Great episode Simon. Dr Willet was awesome. Keep it up

[@professormustard75]

@plantchompers sent me over here and I'm glad he did! New sub. Great interview!

[@michele2716]

Thank you for this conversion and for introducing me to this doctor!

[@TheProofWithSimonHill]

My pleasure!

[@jimpatek6244]

Loved this episode. So many questions answered. And Simon, the way you orchestrated and directed your discussion with Dr Willett was masterful. Thank you so much.

[@joansmith3693]

Such a helpful episode!

[@ritajhorn3585]

Excellent interview

[@aminreviews2311]

Amazing content here. It’s really interesting to think about the evolution of the field. Ancel Keys was limited by the tools of his time and drew broad conclusions based on relatively smaller (large for his time) studies and whole country data. Walter Willett did these incredible, large cohort studies over time to get much better data about how good choices affect health consequences. The next generation will hopefully be able to make huge progress on personalized nutrition as we learn that the right nutrition approach very likely varies based on an individual person’s biology.

[@plants_and_wellness1574]

What a sweet man ❤ going to listen again because it was so good 😊

[@LenkaSaratoga]

Ditto. Apart from top notch expertise, very appealing demeanor.

[@MrTomr316]

This is awesome 🌱

[@roybatty8366]

Great stuff. I'm 60 in 5 days so I hope it's not too late for me and that the damage isn't done already.

[@KT-dq5cp]

Brilliant!

[@markbura7172]

Thanks Walter. I am Mark Bura from Tanzania. I am a great fan of your approaches and I am now more of flexitarian than vegetarian. How often can one eat red meat to be safe from Alzheimer or cancer of the colon.

[@trishmarck7798]

Food quality seems to be the most important message out there.

[@KasKade7]

Quality over quantity.

[@afonsodealbuquerque4115]

This was my favourite!

[@marcelotemer]

Simon you are the best!!!!

[@rikyvandeursen4911]

Thank you so much for this wonderful video, so helpful and interesting! I mainly follow the Mediterranean diet, but in autumn and winter I love to eat a red meat stew…..with a lot of veggies 👍🏼♥️

[@runninblue9415]

Real quality content 👌

[@TheProofWithSimonHill]

Thanks

[@twbishop]

@1:16:25 besides the question about fats, a question that was not asked about dairy is about calcium and protein (and added vitamin D), as well as other micro-nutrients. (vegetarians can consume dairy if desired.) fermented dairy like yogurt and some cheeses can aid in digestion from probiotics.

[@louisejohnson-cq4gv]

Was ready to listen to the whole episode when canola oil was recommended. I quickly went back to listening to Barbara O’Neil

[@cumwotmayinat]

Haha I did exactly the same

[@markmartin6812]

Isn’t EVOO & 🥑oil better oils to use rather than the (Canada grape seed) canola oil?

[@grimfact]

On the theme of 'Compared to what...?', it would be interesting to compare the results of this gentleman's studies, to that of say, Dr Michael Greger's or Dr Neal Barnard's (PCRM), as well as their methods of research.

[@carinaekstrom1]

Dr. Michael Greger and Dr. Neal Barnard are basically on the same page as Dr. Walter Willet.

[@barryth]

By eliminating confounding issues, such as social economic classification, one could be throwing out the baby with the bathwater. One could find that non nutritional issues were as important as the nutritional ones. seems Dr. Willet is astute enough to reconize this.

[@TheIgnacio777]

Please interview Dr Chris Knobbe, who has a book on seed oil effects. Would love ypu to challenge the other perspective on seed oils.

[@espinosalexis]

​@@TheProofWithSimonHillSo? His arguments are based on incidence of Macular Degeneration!

[@talgara69]

Excellent

[@cyber0005]

soybean oil is a healthy fat? and no red meat what am I missing?

[@longbeach69]

And get most of your calories from carbs 🙄

[@awolf913]

@@longbeach69the right carbs

[@espinosalexis]

Dear Simon, now that you are in Harvard, it would be great if you can interview Nicholas Norwitz about the lipid energy model he has developed together with David Feldman and others. I'm very interested to see them explaining how they think CVD is developed in the general population (the 95% of the population that is metabolically ill). And also interesting to see them explaining how they think CVD will not develop in the 5% of the population (metabolically healthy and flexible) while following a low carb high fat diet. And also what they think will happen to a metabolically ill person that starts a low carb high fat diet and mantains it for many years. Do they think this person will avoid CVD development? Many thanks.

[@espinosalexis]

@@TheProofWithSimonHill I know you are skeptical. Dave is happy to talk to skepticals too. All he wants is to learn from you guys. We all could learn a lot while you and him expose their points of view in a friendly chat. Once you said not wanting your show to become an echoe chamber, but it still is. Very interesting I have to admit (I honestly reviewed it with 5 stars), but still has lots of echoe.

[@trishmarck7798]

Possibly with seed oils is in regards to the amount of processing they undergo. Again quality is more important

[@harshruia2]

Superb

[@lindaripp5902]

Thanks

[@krystal.castor]

Great interview. I just missed the polemic around gluten.

[@StephenMarkTurner]

Many years ago, Joel Fuhrman suggested that a diet low in fat / cholesterol should also be low in added salt for that very reason of hemorrhagic stroke.

[@carinaekstrom1]

What about a diet that is fairly high in plant fats and has no cholesterol?

[@StephenMarkTurner]

@@carinaekstrom1 Well, he suggests low salt intake period. Also a diet with moderate fat but from whole foods instead of oil. But I guess it is of extra concern if cholesterol is low. And of course you don't want to trade risk of hemorrhagic stroke for the problems with having higher cholesterol. I believe that Joel will be a guest on Simon's podcast in the near future, so that will be a must listen.

[@carinaekstrom1]

@@StephenMarkTurner Very few plant based or even exclusively plant eating people will get their cholesterol levels extremely low. That happens mostly on statins. And if someone doesn't have a problem with blood pressure, moderate salt intake should not be a problem. What I call moderate might be low for someone on SAD. Yes, Joel Fuhrman is interesting.

[@espinosalexis]

Willet said: "Only 5% of US people eat as the dietary guidelines.". So, clearly dietary guidelines are not serving their "intended" purpose. But their "de facto" purpose is clear: they serve food industry to wash their face and claim that their products are "somehow" fitted into the guidelines. I'm reading them now and it's clearly stated that there is 15% room in your diet for rubbish. But it's not just that, but the "non-rubish" industrial food fits too (like our beloved Up&Go, with the many US equivalences). So, if the guidelines are working only for the food industry, and if the industry is the culprit of the terrible health of US population (only 5% are metabolically healthy), then: Why upgrade the effort and create GLOBAL dietary guidelines (EAT-Lancet)? My only guess is: to serve for the same: wash the face of the food industry at the global level. By the way, according to their calculations, I (male 51yo, 71kg, 179cm, active) should be eating 2800 Calories per day. And from those 2800 calories, 133g of animal food (meats, poultry, eggs), which is around 44g of animal protein per day. Which looks bad for me because I will need ~70 grams of protein from other sources not as dense (assuming 1.6g/kg of protein, as Don Layman recommends). So yes, I'm not eating as the guidelines suggest neither, I think guidelines pattern may hurt my health, starting from lack of protein. So, I'm eating the foods in their healthy 85% (nothing from their allowed 15% of rubbish), only whole and fresh, but with different proportions and in an omnivore pattern. What is the opinion of "The Proof" about the protein suggested intake of the US dietary guidelines? What is the protein suggested intake by "The Proof"?

[@singularity6761]

Just an idea regardig seed oils why in some cases they might be harmful: Won't some fractions of the polyunsaturated fats be converted to transfats when you fry/cook with them?

[@singularity6761]

​​​@@TheProofWithSimonHillThen I am asking myself whats the difference between heating once or multiple times. Probably the amount of created trans fats only, which means even 1x heating too high creates some trans fats. I have googled a bit. PUFAs can be transformed to trans fats at around 130° C already. A pan easily can reach 200+°C. Wow, no wonder why ultra processed food is so terribly bad. Next to sugar, round up polluted wheat also trans fats from seed oils. 🤮

[@Rakeshgupta-qy8cb]

how can canola and sun flower oil etc be healthy...pls pls clarify

[@veganandlovingit]

I think sunflower if it's organic, cold-pressed, and high-oleic is OK. Similar to only buying virgin olive oil I guess. Oils ain't oils Sol ;)

[@Rakeshgupta-qy8cb]

agreed if it is cold pressed..but then that should be mentioned accordingly

[@grimfact]

While stating that dairy consumption is not necessary for optimal health, it was interesting that this gentleman still consumes dairy himself. While mentioning sustainability issues, he completely ignored, in this interview at least, the violation of animal rights and exploitation of animals associated with this industry.

[@veganandlovingit]

I'm on your side. But there are loads of people who couldn't give a rat's tiny bottom. Sometimes appealing to human health based on study alone is a step in the right direction. Think about colleagues of his and what they do in animal experiments. They live in a human centric culture.

[@carinaekstrom1]

Sadly enough, sometimes people still lose credibility in certain circles if they mention animal rights a lot.

[@CharlieFader]

The conversation is always limited in a way that matters to humans, so it’s human health and environmental health as it affects human survival. It’s sad that (non-human) animal life is not considered important, but I remain hopeful, since the environmental effects of the diet used to also be ignored.

[@limitisillusion7]

I buy organic whole milk, and I've reduced my meat consumption to nothing. That's as close as I'll ever get to avoiding animal cruelty. If you spend too much time focusing on any amount of animal cruelty, you'll find hypocrisy everywhere. For example, is there money in your bank account? Why not donate that money to an animal shelter? You're better off not taking a dogmatic stance on animal cruelty anyway, because you're just going to cause your opposition to dig in deeper. The most radical vegans certainly helped fuel the carnivore diet that is now rampant. Look up the diagram labeled "the physics of carnist veganism" on Google. When your strategy to change the behaviors of others is pure criticism, it doesn't actually help achieve your goal. You're attaching behaviors to the individual, and you're overlooking the much more nuanced reality that we live in. In *reality,* people's behaviors are a product of themselves *and* their environment. You wouldn't criticize a homeless man for eating chicken (or at least I hope not). This is ultimately no different than an affluent person eating chicken. In both cases, neither person has acquired the necessary stimulus from their environment to remove their consumption of chicken. If you assume everyone is just like you and you attack those who aren't, then again, they're just going to dig in deeper. The better strategy for your end goal of reducing animal cruelty is to avoid criticizing and prodding into people's lifestyles and simply ask questions that challenge the margins of their beliefs. This is what allows you to actually change someone's mind. In this particular case, the first questions you should ask may have nothing to do with animal cruelty at all. You also can't expect to complete this process in one conversation. It is much better to plant a thought-provoking "seed" in their head and let it settle. If you become the person that learns how to ask the right questions, you become a very, very powerful force for good. But if you only criticize people, then you literally make the problems worse most of the time.

[@TheIgnacio777]

Very good talk! How do u replace beef and chicken as primary protein sources with nuts and legumes DAILY?? Hard to envision getting 0.7 gram per pound of protein from lugumes...every day...

[@marcomakaveli8440]

You don’t! Nonsense information

[@Lise-ss8qw]

Get the Crometer and weigh your foods

[@tnvol5331]

Rural Chinese (older) ate a diet of 90% white rice did not get cancer so it's easy to conclude carbs are life saving.

[@BlahBlahPoop617]

Interesting what he said about some vegetables possibly being harmful. Any rough clue on which those may be compared to which would be better? He did mention corn and peas possibly being not good in certain amounts. I am also shocked that he doesn’t seem that favorable of artificial sweeteners??! Or am I misunderstanding him? I have a lot of them and natural sweeteners such as stevia..

[@BlahBlahPoop617]

@@MB10097 I could kinda see that, but more so because they lack the antioxidant power other potatoes or plant carbs may have, such as sweet potato or black beans. So one would be eating an inferior food (white potatoes) to something that could be a better replacement (purple or orange sweet potatoes).

[@skippy6462]

Dr Greger says if your diet is peas, carrots, potatoes and iceberg lettuce you're in trouble.

[@BlahBlahPoop617]

@@skippy6462 Even sweet and purple potatoes??

[@TheGuzzler679]

Maybe one of the things about corn is its lack of bioavailability in certain key nutrients, so unless you prepare it in the way meso Americans do (nixtamalization) you can't rely on it as a staple crop.

[@christoffernilsen747]

@@skippy6462 what's wrong with peas? Lots of nutrients in them. And it's a legume.

[@fionadale8044]

So I'm really interested in health and longevity, sustainability, and came to appreciate the importance of avoiding animals foods due to the harmful practices of factory farming. Gave up alcohol and animal products at the beginning of COVID. Basically WFPB. I'd say I was challenged for about a month, then everything became pretty routine. Is Dr. Willett suggesting that a Vegan diet is less healthy than a Mediterranean Diet due to the positive health data out of Greece? Say it ain't so Simon! Oh, and Happy Birthday!

[@thebizzyleader]

I am also WFPB however I don't equate this with being Vegan as the latter "allows" for unlimited quantities of overly-processed and junk foods (not suggesting all Vegan's eat this way). Maybe this is what he was referring to.

[@veganandlovingit]

I've been vegan since 1990. I'm doing well. It's so annoying hearing about the benefits of fish since I won't be going back :(

[@carinaekstrom1]

Usually, health authorities are more worried about people's lack of knowledge to make a vegan diet work, or by the difficulty of adhering to a healthy vegan diet in our unhealthy food environments.

[@TheProofWithSimonHill]

Hi Friends, Curious to know - which part of our recent conversation did you find the most engaging? Also, if there are any other questions you have in mind about this topic, just leave them below. I'll ensure they're included in our next chat.

[@lorrainejambor3258]

Beef and dairy - so much promotion currently for beef = protein, eat plain Greek yogurt but ditch the rest of dairy - also that seed oils are ok. Eggs?! Briefly mentioned with dairy and unprocessed beef, healthy or not? Loved listening to this!

[@jbidwell605]

The most engaging part was how you both discussed swapping for better items in our diets. Your approach here is helpful for those people who,... you know,... would rather not listen. Also, I was surprised by canola and soybean oil being okay. I did not know that, just assumed it was all about evoo and avocado oil these days. Curious to know what he thinks about eggs (for next time).

[@kardste8114]

Can you get enough Omega 3 and Omega 6 just from plants? And are nuts and seeds necessary to include, even as Whole Foods, in the diet to get enough essential oils?

[@HeibesHealth]

I like to take a DHA/EPA supplement just to make sure I’m getting enough Omega 3. I’m not so much worried about 6 since we tend to get enough of that.

[@Maple597]

Excellent interview. I’m disappointed that climate change is now clouding dietary science. Unfortunate

[@samieramohamed2467]

Sorry to say that soya oil and canola e are unhealthy as they are processed industrial oils, cow milk and it’s products are inflammatory but he did not mention casein one which can not be digested, lactose intolerance,organic soya milk yogurt is great as well as Tofu .

[@doritad3637]

I’ve been vegan for 7 years and still have health issues connected to blood sugar, I’ve been surfing the depths of the internet recently and now this interview, hoping to find the optimal macros to stabilize blood sugar and improve insulin resistance, but there’s so much contradicting information, can somebody tell me how much carbs, fat and protein am I supposed to eat for optimal blood sugar control?

[@dianasolfest7237]

Everyone's body & brain chemistry is different from one degree to another. Get the basics, then fine tune them until YOU feel optimal health.

[@yangtse55]

BMI liver fat exercise ...Roy Taylor Newcastle.

[@jitaoniu4964]

Eat whole food plant based, no processed plant food including oil and whit flour

[@wendyvillasenor8671]

The starch solution

[@greensmoothieparty]

sponsored by Big Oil? (olive, canola, soybean)

[@beepbeepnj2658]

Those 2 oils (not 1st press EVOO olive) are cheap, rancid and deodorized to have no odor or taste so the unsuspecting public intuition is destroyed and they consume much more than they realize since their taste buds are shut down and with too much consumption their health is destroyed. If they had 100 - 200 calories of butter cookies with 4 plain real ingredients, their intuition would feel the thick butter and gunk in their throat and their intuition would tell them they should stop at that point. This would work the same with any ancestral 1 single ingredient type of fat.

[@snappinfingert5554]

Could the amount of vitamin k rich foods affect hemorrhagic stroke occurrence in people with very low cholesterol!

[@RiDankulous]

Interesting hypothesis.

[@campflint76]

How could Dr. Willett insist that driving LDL down “too low” increases stroke risk then refuse to indicate a level that he considers to be too low? I’m sure he is aware that some doctors believe that lowering LDL cholesterol to below 30 significantly minimizes the risk of a cardiovascular event. Is reducing LDL to 30 what he would think of as getting it too low?

[@veganandlovingit]

From the Mayo clinic. Maybe 40mg per decilitre of blood is too low. However, the concerns are based on correlation, not causation at this point.

[@reason3581]

I’m not convinced it’s causal. What would be the mechanism? How could physiological ApoB levels be detrimental? I’d like to see him discuss this with Thomas Dayspring.

[@CharlieFader]

@@reason3581what the purpose of calling it physiological? As far as I understand, having “as low as possible” LDL or ApoB levels is desirable for someone who has had high LDL or ApoB for a big part of his life and probably has other risk factors as well.

[@BirdieMcLovin]

I'm interested in the idea I see out there about (seed/vegetable) oils being very calorically dense and being a contributor to weight gain and obesity. Is it better to consume our plant-based fats from the whole food (the nuts, olives and seeds) versus in processed oils? Also are commercially made seed/vegetable oils worse than expeller-pressed oils?

[@TheIgnacio777]

50 y.o. 180 lbs Need 0.75x180=135 grams quality protein, with 30+ grams per meal. How do that with nuts, chickpeas and beans- every day, every meal? Does not sound realistic.... You can cook beef/chicken/fish in 15' and get that anytime.... There's the misding piece or sarcopenia and falls if cvd and strokes dont get u. Something is missing

[@peterbedford2610]

Have you interviewed Dr Layman yet?

[@doddsalfa]

This guy birthday is tomorrow 20 June 78 years old

[@skippy6462]

Happy birthday to you both 🎉

[@skippy6462]

​@@TheProofWithSimonHillhappy birthday for tomorrow 🎉

[@kst157]

Happy birthday Walter & Simon! 🎉

[@veganandlovingit]

He looks pretty good for someone who must have spent a hell of a lot of time behind a desk.

[@birhiray]

What about athletes, how much does this apply, not like a soccer player (futbol) but sprinter or American football player?

[@KT-dq5cp]

What would ‘one portion of dairy’ look like?

[@megavegan5791]

His comments about extremely-low cholesterol being associated with higher risk of hemorrhagic stroke were surprising. Are you sure that's not just reverse causality?

[@skippy6462]

It's still the animal products and ultra processed foods. Might be able to get away with eating AP but that's not saying much. Can drink alcohol and get away with it. Smoke even. Optimum Nutritional Recommendations has to be what Dr. Greger research shows: whole food plant based diet without salt oil or sugar, daily exercise, sleep, less stress etc

[@adamswift1747]

Very interesting what he says about natural trans fats potentially being as bad as the man-made variety. When I tell people their are trans fats in meat and dairy they think I'm insane

[@FM-gv7sb]

I prefer Dr. Ray Peat's stuff. You should interview Dr. Saladino.

[@anabolicamaranth7140]

People are eating less red meat and more chicken, eggs and fish. I doubt if total animal protein consumptions has moved much in the last 4 decades.

[@carinaekstrom1]

In the US overall per capita meat consumption (excluding fish) has gone up a bit, and fish per capita consumption has gone up with 75% according to "Our world in data".

[@samieramohamed2467]

Sugar is not seductive as host commented but addictive.

[@eileenkast4982]

I understand he hast to stay with the science says but considering how overweight the entire nation is you would think maybe he would recommend eating less cheese and oils . Many people don’t understand the calorie density in cheese and oils. Also there’s a huge correlation of auto immune disease and cheese consumption. So many people are lactose intolerant and considering he is part of the eat lancet commission I am a bit surprised he was so lenient about cow products

[@veganandlovingit]

That's interesting. I work in mental health and disability. I have noticed my MS clients are addicted to cheese and eat it daily. I have also worked with a number of very unhealthy, overweight mental health clients who practically live on cheese and iced coffee. They die young too.

[@brucejensen3081]

Not sure if it's oil or starch that is the issue. Like those eating deep fried food with cheese on top, know that isn't going to get them lean. Lots of people eat meals with a lot of starch, get too much energy from it and not much fat, have issues. A bit less starch, a bit more olive oil, to get your energy seems to work

[@Sparkling-Cyanide]

So, what is it about red meat that makes it unhealthy? I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone say exactly. Is it the saturated fat, the heme iron, or something else? If white meat is healthier, then I guess it’s not saturated fat because chicken has saturated fat too. So what is it with red meat? I’ve never been much of a meat eater because I genuinely don’t care for it - never have. But the “why” about red meat has always wondered me.

[@beepbeepnj2658]

It's because if you are in perfect health, no one can sell you any medicine, vitamins supplements or surgeries. Dr. Leila Denmark said the best protein is from eggs, lean meat and black eyed peas, but at 5 feet tall and 100 lbs what was the portion size, 2 ounces?

[@brucejensen3081]

Digesting red meat is taxing on your liver. If you are eating red meat in a meal with more than 25 grams of protein total often, it will impact your liver. Your liver regulates cholesterol and some degree blood sugar

[@carinaekstrom1]

A big part of it is that meat has no fiber. Humans are built to eat foods with fiber. Meat functions almost like refined junk foods in the human body. It has some nutrients, but some are the wrong types for humans. Heme iron and retinol, for example. Too much saturated fat. And meat has no phytonutrients. It may also be something about the Neu5Gc molecule that humans are not supposed to have in their bodies. It's probably a combination of things, some of which we haven't discovered yet.

[@Sparkling-Cyanide]

@@carinaekstrom1 But wouldn’t that be true for “white” meat too as well as red meat?

[@Sparkling-Cyanide]

@@brucejensen3081 As I said to someone else, wouldn’t that be true for “white” meat too? Yet, he says chicken is ok.

[@carinaekstrom1]

Hmm, dairy, growth factors, cancer and tall people having weaker bones. I feel better and better about being a relatively short person. (Never broken a bone, either.)

[@janeschade7875]

Isn’t all oils whether it’s vegetable or canola, coconut or avocado oil still gonna block the arteries that’s my understanding from all the so-called experts ? Now I’m confused

[@kazoz3520]

Thank you both. From a human health & nutrition perspective, I was wondering about Omega 3 eggs, whether any significant differences? There has been a lot of commercial poultry industry research on producing higher Omega 3 products, through dietary changes - & impacts to bird health & production. Eg, I found the following study fascinating, & it came to mind when the question was asked on optimal levels of LDL & how low to go. It appears with chickens (which typically have much higher serum triglyceride levels than humans, chickens: 1200 to 3800 mg/100ml), there are significant deleterious impacts to bird health and production if given a high DHA oil (microalgae) diet (4%), unless balanced with monounsaturated oils (high oleic). So inadvertently they worked out how low they could go with triglycerides, before it impacted on bird health and production. "Feeding laying hens docosa hexaenoic acid-rich microalgae oil at 40g/kg diet causes hypotriglyceridemia, depresses egg production, and attenuates expression of key genes affecting hepatic triglyceride synthesis and secretion, but is rescued by dietary co-supplementation of high-oleic sunflower oil". Elkin et al, 2023, Poultry Science. I imagine human nutritionists would be envious of the amount of research funding that goes into poultry nutrition, & the level of control they have over their research subjects (eg, no need for double blinded study, & you determine dosage effects without concerns over killing your subjects) :)

[@SEANCEMAN]

Canola oil???? I thought that was ultra processed garbage.

[@yukonnoka]

Dairy consumption is a recent evolutionary aberration, but refined oil consumption is not? I’m pretty sure that native humans didn’t have access to these modern oils. Olive oil was much thicker back then and contained more fiber.

[@kellyh5250]

Purple and sweet potatoes offer high nutrient values; artificial sweeteners I would stay away from.

[@rwh4114]

Dr Bill Harris would probably disagree with his omega-3 thoughts.

[@johndough6741]

I think both these speakers missed the mark on red meat...there is no such thing as "unprocessed red meat". Unless you're eating wild game or seafood, you're eating processed meat. There's no comparison between the nutritional profile (fatty acids, etc.) of wild meat & fish versus industrial meats (beef, pork, poultry, etc.). I understand what he's saying processed red meat vs unprocessed red meat...i.e. bacon vs steak; but, all our terrestrial meats, excluding wild game, have been bastardized by industry to the point of being unhealthy.

[@brucejensen3081]

You could eat goat.

[@GlennMarshallnz]

Using your 'logic' the same applies to "bastardised" plants. E.g. selectively bred vegetables, fruit, grains, these bear little resemblance to historical plants.

[@johndough6741]

@@GlennMarshallnz I agree. However, the "selectively bred vegetables, fruit, grains" was not a degradation (bastardization) of historical plants. Our ancestors selected traits that produced larger, sweeter, juicier crops with massive increases in nutrients essential for human survival. The same selective breeding happened to cattle producing fattier beef with much higher total fat, saturated fat, and reduced healthy fats leading to a higher risk of heart disease in humans who consume industrial meats.

[@GlennMarshallnz]

@@johndough6741 Hi John, not a fair categorisation. Plant crops have been heavily altered in the last one hundred years via selective and/or genetic breeding. That manipulation has been primarily for two dominant reasons - increased yield and/or increased profits e.g. increased shelf life or pesticide resistance. Many heritage varieties had far greater nutrients and also contained much less sugar.

[@espinosalexis]

Heart Disease has gone down 80% in the US? Really? Can you point us to a reference? I thought CVD was #1 killer in the US! And it has gone down because Harvard recommendations of reducing saturated fat has been applied by the population? What about the use of Statins? Has it gone down 80% too?

[@espinosalexis]

​@@TheProofWithSimonHillThanks a lot for the reference. Very interesting! I guess a better statistic in relation to diet+life style would be a reduction in CVD incidence per capita (better measure of life quality and health). Because it can be argued that reduction in CVD deaths come mainly from the use of medical procedures: early detection, surgery and pharmaceuticals. The confounding factors are so obvious and Willet so highly skilled in the topic that he should have avoided his comment. For sure he has read this paper: "Trend analysis of cardiovascular disease mortality, incidence, and mortality-to-incidence ratio: results from global burden of disease study 2017, BMC, (2021)". Where incidence for rich countries (US) is pretty much flat, while mortality has been reduced dramatically (as in the reference you shared). Yeah, Willet is highly skilled also in throwing "cherry picked" numbers to the public that contaminate the conversation. I hope "The Proof" is indeed hoping for the truth and not accepting facts as dogma, even if they are coming from the mouth of highly respected professors from Harvard.

[@12marcusboy]

What's wrong with ghee

[@Mark1JT]

Why don't they conduct some nutrition studies on prison populations if they volunteer to do so? Seems logical but I guess there may be some obstacles that the studies designers come up against.

[@SkyZer0]

what about plain, non-fat, dairy (yogurt)?? plain has no added sugar.

[@carinaekstrom1]

Sometimes non-fat has added sugar.

[@SkyZer0]

@@carinaekstrom1 im talking about plain, nonfat, greek yogurt. what about that? ill edit my original comment.

[@JimiHL]

Most plant-based doctors I've read say avoid fat and oil. Are they wrong?

[@beepbeepnj2658]

There is no such thing as a plant based doctor as it is not accredited by anything.

[@JimiHL]

@@TheProofWithSimonHill you know what I mean. Processed oils. Oils that are naturally in foods your eating.

[@JimiHL]

@@beepbeepnj2658 fine, I mean doctors that promote plant-based diets.

[@beepbeepnj2658]

@@JimiHL The 3rd leading cause of death is doctor mistakes but the USDA says 70% of the USA diet is from some type of plant foods so 70% would be already a plant based diet? What does based mean to you more than 50%?

[@juleslincredule]

I’m not sure. Did you said that meat wasn’t good?

[@juleslincredule]

@@TheProofWithSimonHill he speaks like he has something to hide. He should not. People should try this: transform your sugar dose 🍦 into meat 🥩 dose. People need to see what an overdose of meat (hard to do because when full… you just can’t go fuller) can do on their body. If you wanna see a miracle… there you have it. Meat ain’t a drug but it is certainly the starting point for recovering your health.