Protein, Fasting, Cancer, and Longevity - with Valter Longo, PhD | The Proof Podcast EP 237

In Episode 237, I’m joined by Dr Valter Longo for an exploration of protein, cancer, the fasting-mimicking diet, IGF-1, and mTOR.
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theproof.com/podcast/
Regular listeners of The Proof will know that protein is frequently featured in episodes. As an area of nutrition where the scientific community is split, I am interested in digging into the specifics of each viewpoint - and most importantly, the evidence behind each one. Highly requested guest, Dr Valter Longo, returns to the show today to share his position on this contentious topic.
Dr Valter Longo is the Edna M. Jones Professor of Gerontology and Biological Sciences and Director of the Longevity Institute at the USC Leonard David School of Gerontology, one of the leading centres for research on aging and age-related disease. Dr Longo is also the Director of the Longevity and Cancer Program at the IFOM Institute of Molecular Oncology in Milan, Italy. His studies focus on the fundamental mechanisms of aging in simple organisms and mice, and on how these mechanisms can be translated to humans. With extensive education and a prominent career, Dr Longo brings an incredibly interesting perspective to today’s conversation.
In this episode, we zoom in on terms that have become buzzwords in the protein space, including IGF-1 and mTOR. We discuss protein requirements for different ages, muscle tissue importance, benefits of protein consumption, and potential risks. We also cover the fasting-mimicking diet for both regular folks and as an adjunct cancer treatment.
Specifically, we discuss:
0:00 intro
2:58 Ideal diets for longevity
9:15 Important Pathways for aging
16:24 IGF1 Elevation
19:46 Acute vs Chronic elevation of IGF1
25:11 Danger of Protein Over Consumption
32:52 Impact of exercise on IGF1
38:35 Muscle Mass and Longevity
41:59 Study on High Protein Later in Life
48:03 How to get IGF1 tested
49:54 Low IGF1 & Cognitive Decline
53:00 Resistance to IGF1
54:38 Mendelian Randomization Studies
59:21 Fasting Mimicking Diet
1:16:03 Fasting and Cancer
1:27:51 Ketogenic Diet & Cancer
1:32:15 Outro
I appreciate having Dr Longo on the show today and hearing yet another perspective on protein, plus much more interesting research and insights. I hope you found this conversation interesting and informative as part of The Proof's exploration on protein. If you're feeling confused or overwhelmed by the amount of information (and partially conflicting stances) The Proof has covered lately, don't fret - I will be releasing a recap and evaluation of this learning soon.
Make sure to follow the Proof on Instagram:
• @theproof: / theproof
• @simonhill: / simonhill
• KZbin: / theproofwithsimonhill for the most detailed episode experience.
Connect with Dr Valter Longo:
• Instagram: / prof_valterlongo
• Facebook: / profvalterlongo
• Website: www.valterlongo.com/
• His book, The Longevity Diet: www.valterlongo.com/the-longe...
• Dr Longo’s previous appearance on The Proof Episode 106: theproof.com/slow-ageing-figh...
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Enjoy, friends.
Simon
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[@kst157]

The huge number of proven successes with real cancer patients over many, many years is excellent proof of the science and procedures Valter Longo has established - and I applauded the non-profit basis of his work. No pharmacy companies to bias studies or withhold negative results or seeking huge profit drugs. Valter’s methods are exceptionally cheap to implement and proven in real people. Thanks Simon and Valter for an excellent discussion, sincerely appreciated. 👍

[@dorinazahariaminoiu5808]

Simon is GREAT!!!!

[@caridadbenito4329]

1:22:44

[@armloumelanson7160]

Very interesting however there is a danger of extrapolating FMD as a panacea. Without actual trial data, it is risky to advocate FMD, IF (or other such dietary interventions) as an adjunct treatment for CA. Some cancers can switch metabolically to using ketones for tumor growth (like pca) - applying these ideas without well designed trials can produce unintended negative consequences...

[@Pakistanicecream-z1x]

He has the proper surname for a longevity expert.

[@Davidicus000]

Longo is one of my longevity gurus, no question.

[@robertthompson5501]

The title "Guru" immediately engenders skepticism requires you engage critical thinking. Think MAN! 🏋‍♂️🏋🏻🦊

[@marcelotemer]

👏👏👏👏 great interview, Simon asks questions and doesn't hesitate to challenge his own takes on health regarding exercise, proteins and muscle building. Kudos!

[@CapslockCapperson]

I was on a low protein diet, took regular blood tests and my Sex-hormone binding protein levels became very elevated. Started eating much more protein and had very positive results on blood tests. Would tread cautiously if wanting to do low protein. Lots of contradictory evidence out there...

[@plants_and_wellness1574]

My intuition has always told me that we do not need as much protein as we are being told and I just have always felt that way and then I found an episode of Rich Roll with Dr. Longo and that’s exactly what he was talking about 😄 I look at people like Rich Roll who also believes we don’t need a ton of protein and yet he’s one of the fittest humans alive. Not to mention he looks better than most people half his age. I unintentionally eat the same way he does (smoothie for breakfast, salad for lunch, rice and beans with veggies for dinner) but I do eat fish once a week. Also, Mike Fremont who just turned 100 and still runs everyday, he has ate a vegan diet since he was 69 and he doesn’t consume a lot of protein and yet he seems to still be thriving. He gets protein from beans, he says he eats beans everyday. I love this conversation and I’m so grateful for Dr. Longo for doing this research 🙏

[@mandandi]

I kinda agree with you. I roughly eat the same way, most days of the week I juice vegetables in fact. I eat meat sparingly, but eat more vegetables, fruits and legumes overall. Plus I boil lots of plants and drink the liquid. Same with broths. I am hardly ever ill now. I used to be very ill eating 3 times a day, yadda, yadda. I am told I look younger. I just started doing calisthenics, very early days. My energy levels are ok. My memory is improving in fact. I practice intermittent fast each week, though not religiously. Once or twice a week I do 3 day water fast. I cleanse my body several times a week using clays and charcoal. I feel good.

[@patrickvanmeter2922]

Mike Fremont is a great guy, but he doesn't run every day. I heard him say, 2-3 times a week and down from 10 miles to 5. Still absolutely amazing.

[@plants_and_wellness1574]

@@patrickvanmeter2922 it must have been an older interview that I saw but yes, still incredible. He’s 100 and has a super simple diet and is still active, amazing. Rich Roll is 56 I believe and he is still extremely active and looks amazing for a guy who abused drugs and alcohol until he was 40. He went plant based at 40 and went on to become a successful athlete and named one of the fittest humans alive 🌱

[@CapslockCapperson]

Just make sure you get blood tests. I was on low protein, very fit, felt fine. Took periodic blood tests and some metrics kept going the opposite direction. Back to regular protein intake and blood data shows me being much healthier

[@plants_and_wellness1574]

@@CapslockCapperson which markers are you talking about? I’ve been plant-based plus seafood 1-2 times a week for a year now and my blood work has only gotten better.

[@metalrunner4398]

As a croatian living across the pond (Adriatic) from Longo I really share his passion for the taste of fish. However, ethically I can no longer support that industry. Also, how great it is that the longevity expert is called Longo?

[@jaxnaturals]

Find yourself good high quality local companies/ individuals in your community, like at a farmers market, that sustainability catch the fish with a fishing pole. Make sure to eat the skin as the layer between the skin and meat contain the largest deposits of omega-3. Stick with small fish that are not in the ocean for long periods of time. Less chances for contamination of toxic material. NEVER EVER NEVER EAT FARM RAISED FISH!

[@metalrunner4398]

@@jaxnaturals dude, sardines are almost extinct in adriatic due to overfishing and you are talking some fairytales about susainable fishing? I did shop fish at farmer’s market exclusively. Sea is dead due to fishing. Sustainable fishing is a comedy. Come to real life. Come to our coast and just look at the devastation. I have kids and every bite of fish I would eat would be a step towards disasterous world. I want to have clear conscious when my kids ask me what was I doing when we were destroying planet. Also, fish don’t want to die. They value their life as sentient beings.

[@jaxnaturals]

@@metalrunner4398 sooooo your option is that the whole world stops eating fish?????? My point is to stop supporting large corporations that over fish for profit.

[@metalrunner4398]

@@jaxnaturals yes, if we want our kids to live. The whole DEVELOPED world MUST stop eating fish

[@jaxnaturals]

@@metalrunner4398 sounds plausible. Let me know how that goes.

[@ronaldsingh3858]

Thanks for asking Dr Longo about Protein from so many different angles. Most times interviewers don’t get into the weeds on that subject. It helps us make an informed choice depending on our goals. Awesome interview Simon.

[@bluesouth9090]

A joy to watch ! Congratulations Simon and Walter !

[@sandyglover736]

Another incredible interview. Thank you Simon for your continued search for the evidence.

[@michellelee-ek5re]

So many gurus about fasting focusing on weight loss but no point losing weight and shorten life span!! Valter is the man!!! ❤

[@markaguilera493]

And yet Longo pointed out that centenarians were frail even though he conceded it might not be the ideal as far as life quality is concerned.

[@j.f.7509]

Valter Longo answered most of the questions I had about his research. Great interview!

[@galaxymetta5974]

For longevity: take low protein before age 65. After 65, take moderate protein. Protein is overhyped as many missed the fact that even human milk only contains 2% protein for growing babies.

[@tobiaskevorkazito4072]

This interview is soooo good. I don’t understand much of science but Simon is an amazing proxy to talk to Valter as I would. Cheers to you both 💪🏻❤️🥊

[@le832]

I did the FMD. IMHO it was 95% processed food (except the olives), high sodium. It gave me a blood pressure spike and headache. When I do a water fast, I feel pretty good and my blood pressure goes down. Also checked my ketones and blood sugar. On FMD, I never went into nutritional ketosis and blood sugar did not go down. I’ll stick to water fasting!

[@kirkborchardt]

The purpose of the Prolon style of FMD is not to improve bio markers or kickstart ketosis in the short or long run. It’s simply to create a sufficient fast that achieves the benefits associated with fasting without reducing calories to zero, making it easier for some people to complete the faux fast. There are carbs in Prolon. I don’t get into ketosis either on Prolon and would not choose that as an adjunct to a keto diet. 1:00:25

[@RJ-cs9gz]

'The little people of Ecuador' kept making me chuckle😅

[@eugeniebreida1583]

I am so glad that I am currently addressing a MUCH simpler and more important factor, for one who eats 'well' (organic, omnivore, meat, greens no potatoes (nightshades are out)), is not/never has been more than 5 pounds over an optimal/lean & mean team athlete type: Regular, reliable SLEEP. Loved Rich Roll's very recent Atomic Habits interview, wherein we learned much about how to clean up our minds and environment for more optimal health. Make your bad habits a lot less convenient, those you'd like to bring in to your being obvious and handy. Obvious. I will listen again, but for now am focusing on being a reliable, deep sleeper/happy camper (having moved all coffee supplies to my basement - inconvenient, bone broth to the front, Wi-Fi on a timer, phone put to bed after dinner/before relax time) There are so many awesome tips, understanding - his interview brings out the best in the author, recommended! (Longo I have listened to for 10 years . . . I am not interested in living LONG, but being healthy. I am very thin, thus Longo's input pretty much goes out the other ear (64yrs female bmi 18 ish. I get the feeling that Longo quickly got his heels in on a position, and I don't see him budging much. I realize this is highly unscientific - hey, I'm an architect - but these thoughts are based on synthesizing a LOT of science, though my late night summaries are obviously casual.) I don't think that enough attention is paid to FEMALE dietary needs/hormones etc. These mice are not over 64yr female critters, those that may be do NOT do well fasted. They die. So . . . I am eating my grassfed lamb, eating veggies w/fiber (they don't help much with calories, thus the meat) and keeping my carbs on the low side - as inflammation is certainly not my friend.

[@elephantintheroom5678]

The extremely long-lived people of the Greek island of Ikaria have a diet based upon green (and other water rich) vegetables, and potatoes, and pulses. The people of Okinawa also based their traditional diet on greens and sweet potatoes, and pulses. That is two of the most long-lived Blue Zone peoples, both eating potatoes as a major part of their traditional diet.

[@jellybeanvinkler4878]

@@elephantintheroom5678 What Mary Ruddick has to say after living in Ikaria: kzbin.info/www/bejne/f6vOinR_mLONqJI&feature=share8

[@L0ND0NMAN]

I didn't think that Valter "dig his hills ", he backs up with his research studies and some sound arguments. He is also for living a long and Healthy life. So, your take on him is very personal filtered through your own preference and assumptions (as for most of us). Not sure what the Atomic Habits (that I quite like it) do here at all.

[@livinlavidaplantbased]

Fabulous information, thank you!

[@Marc_de_Car]

Thank you !

[@waynewells2862]

Great format with insightful questions! Very much appreciate the easy to find areas of the podcast for listeners to access. Best podcast of long form medical evidence based discussion. Thnx for what you do👍

[@SilverFan21k]

I'm glad this got a lot of views and ty for covering Longevity

[@talks2squirrels953]

Great interview. thanks Simon

[@Rafas216]

Vida longa...Valter longo

[@N3330X]

Thank you mate , great listen very insightful 👍

[@pattywest1]

Excellent interview and detailed information

[@willow05]

Thank you for this, Simon, you asked all the questions I was hoping you would! I had such doubts about the ‘low protein’ take (sarcopenia, etc) and now it makes more sense, knowing that IGF1 isn’t triggered the same by protein after the age of 65, and also how important resistance training actually comes into play to prevent muscle loss.. major AHA moments! Thank you for all you do, looking forward to more info in this FMD space !

[@astridthomassen8474]

Thank you very much. I was Looking for more lifestyle longevity tips for cancer survival. I got bc 2 x and still up and running but really would love to hear how to optimise my life. ❤thanks for this information.

[@mariejones7136]

Have you done any water or green juice fasting ?? Intermittent fasting??

[@040681nick]

Great content Simon!😀🙌lotsa love from Norway

[@wallyrbc]

Your podcast is superior and I look forward to it!

[@angelsandocean2853]

Thank you

[@angelsandocean2853]

@@TheProofWithSimonHill recieved my second Prolon kit today. Going to celebrate NY and a couple of days later will start the fast. I am 56. Last time 5 days fast gave me enough energy approximately for two months, after that my energy level dropped. Going to repeat. Happy New Year from Australia! Thank you for this wonderful interview and you did ask all the questions I would ask myself if I had a chance to talk to Dr Longo

[@SamuraKyoto1]

Great interview Simon.Well done

[@TenTempeh]

I've been increasing my protein consumption and it doesn't feel that healthy, although being it plant-based. I've done that in order to optimize my muscle growth, but honestly, I don't see how it is worth it. I'll just focus more on increasing my training. Thanks Simon and Dr Longo!

[@robertthompson5501]

Try Essential Amino Acids pet Dr Robert Wolfe. 🏋‍♂️🏋🏻🦊

[@S7ilgar]

1.2g / kg is fine to build muscles. You can eat a bit of eggs and meat, you won't find any study that prove that a moderate intake of healthy meat combined with a lot of vegetables leads to shorter lifespan than a veggie diet. The healthy pattern is: a lot of vegetables + limit meat with too much saturated fats.

[@TenTempeh]

@@S7ilgar thank for your advice. I'm fully plant-based though and yep there's no need for that much prot it seems to me considering the evidence available. Maximizing my muscle gain isn't my priority anymore. :) Greetings

[@robertthompson5501]

@TenTempeh Consider Essential Amino Acids as advocated by Dr. Robert Wolfe. I will not debate you on Vegan diet but suggest you review podcasts on Ancient Human diets. Luck to you.🏋‍♂️🏋🏻🦊

[@TenTempeh]

@@robertthompson5501 I've found out that ancient human diets are pretty much a construct. Evolutionary theories are sometimes baseless, sometimes more a projection of what we romanticize humans would be in an ancestral context. The more accurate estimation is more of a 'humans ate whatever they could' probably more gathered stuff and eventually hunted stuff / scavenged stuff. So.. I rather stick to evidence around health outcomes in modern day world. And eat whole foods rather than hyperprocessed :) Not because it's more natural/ancestral, just because it happens to be healthy. Of course you might argue it is healthy because it is ancestral (we're adapted to it). But I think it's not always the case.

[@angelsandocean2853]

0.7 grams per 1 kg of your body weight. Thank you! I will stick to this plan for now. I am 56.

[@HaydenGladstonePT]

Around the 35:00 mark, Dr. Longo describes clinical patients completing the FMD 5 days/month and using the Med. Diet (about 1.2g protein/kg) for the remaining days combined with strength training. He describes the female patients following a strength training video for 20 mins (not sure how many x/week) and gaining, in his words, ‘muscle very quickly and easily’. I have been a personal trainer for nearly a decade and have never had clients in their later years gain muscle ‘very quickly’ unless they were completely untrained or an outlier. Were these women frail and untrained to begin with? I would love to hear more about this because this doesn’t compute with my real world experience at all

[@jellybeanvinkler4878]

​@patrinowould the muscle loss be due to the cancer itself? Or due to treatment?

[@TimothyTakemoto]

@patrino ​ @patrino Apples for apples? Dr. Longo is recommending his cancer patient results to us, healthy people and to everyone except those undergoing special Olympic training to gain muscle mass really fast should not consume more than 1.2g of protein per kilo of body weight. I rather like my protein bars. This is bad news!

[@Test-eb9bj]

From other interviews he gave I would conclude that he is not talking about putting on a lot of (visible) mass „quickly“ but regaining what had been lost - mainly during the treatment and the accompanying fasting. My real world experience as a post-menopause woman (following a plant-exclusive diet) coincides with yours - it is damn hard to build up muscle mass especially when you have to train carefully and joint-friendly. Took me two years of consistent training 🏋️‍♀️ 5x times a week to achieve very good results in the end. With 3x 20-25g of protein per day (and taking a Leucine supplement before training). I weigh 60kg/130pounds. If I could train harder I would eat more protein on the days of training to use it for muscle protein synthesis but the low protein intake seems to work well for me and I feel better protected against cancer growth that way.

[@mariejones7136]

I'm 68 female and I was vegan forever and got cancer...I know my body needed more protein so I added some wild caught fish and eggs and meat once in awhile ..I'm trying to keep carbs low and fast ..Easier to do water fasting than the fmd ..Isn't it about balance?? I was also experimenting with one meal a day for a few weeks...But my keytones did not do well. Too low and my glucose was 89..I'm going to check again after more water fasting..etc.oh the problem is losing too much weight ..

[@S7ilgar]

I'm happy I limited my protein intakes to 3 a day for a total of 1.5g/kg of my body weight, contrary to 4 a day as before ... My intuition kept telling me it was too much. This interview confirms that as soon as I met my strength objectives, I must get down to 2 protein intakes a day. It's probably better for strength maintenance to do one full-body session a week with more protein in the 24h following the session, and then get down to 2 moderate protein intake a day.

[@canelovideo]

Era importante estes conteudos do Dr longo terem legendas em Portugues do brasil

[@victormignone4205]

Concordo! kk

[@richvanasse4401]

It's disappointing to me that there are a lot of studies related to protein as one ages, but no consideration of the efficiency of protein digestion (HCl/pepsin levels and overall digestive/absorption).

[@auroraray6427]

Great I really appreciate your work & help 💓In Mexico there are clinics that help against cancer with fasting. I wanted to ask what you think of pollen as cellular food? Special thanks from Barcelona Spain 💥💌

[@alexhupe5238]

protein information was very insightful

[@Fletch_and1]

Another great interview Simon. These podcasts are definitely challenging my bias 😂 I’ve really enjoyed the Don Layman podcast and now this one. I’m still leaning towards the Don Layman argument but like everything the truth often is somewhere in the middle and Valtor has some very interesting research. One thing that I’m often left thinking is when researchers start talking about risk and reducing risk of cancer, CHD etc. For someone like myself that isn’t particularly good with maths and statistics I’d be interested in future episodes breaking this down. It’s often easy to be very reactive when hearing new information especially regarding diet and lifestyle. Keep them coming buddy 👍🏻

[@aquamarine99911]

Here's the thing. I don't want to live into my 90s and beyond as a kind of Sardinian stick person. The Stuart Phillips position would be that muscle mass drops (1% per year IIRC) after age 70. we should be building up our muscle between 20 and 70 to avoid sarcopenia. It's not a matter training for the Olympics, but training for old age. Biolayne has made the point that our body's muscle protein synthesis ability declines at 1.5% per year after age 30, so we should start eating more protein well before age 70. If we exercise - i,e, cardio AND resistance train. If we don't exercise, then 0.7-0.8 g/kg/day is fine.

[@robertthompson5501]

Compound excercises and swimming have with high protein diet has given me .most muscle in my life. At almost 70yrs I am the oldest OG under the barbell at local YMCA. 🏋‍♂️🏋🏻🦊

[@btanonymous]

I’ve been on a high protein (120-160grams per day) vegan diet for bodybuilding for 1.5 years and recently switched to a lower protein diet 2 months ago, around 50-70grams a day. So far I have not seen any reduction in muscle mass although two months may be too short to see the effects - I’m still also doing the same training program. The trade-off between gaining muscle mass/high protein diet and longevity is very interesting. I wonder if periods of bulking done for 4 to 6 weeks, followed by a fasting mimicking diet would be enough to offset the negative impact of the high protein on longevity. It also seems possible during bulking to take a day or two a week to have a lower protein day or two without significantly hindering the bulk. I think these questions are very important for people who are recreational, bodybuilders, as we want to take bodybuilding and strength training seriously but aren’t willing to give up on the longevity benefits of a healthy diet. Thanks for asking great questions in this podcast Simon and keeping the hyperbole out of the picture!

[@PaulnJenna]

are you still doing this? if so how are you getting on? I'm the opposite and maintained and maybe even built a little muscle over 6 months on low protein 70-100g a day. I have now switched yo 150-180g a day to see if the muscle gain increases - also plant based....

[@btanonymous]

@@PaulnJenna Yeah I’m still on a lower protein diet and it’s going great. Your muscle mass will probably increase with the further protein increase. BTW there’s no reason to go over like .8 grams protein per pound, the extra won’t do anything and just steals macros from carbs/fats. See Menno Henselmann’s podcasts/articles on this topic. I’m still on a lower protein dose because I value longevity more now than muscle size. I’ve been quite impressed with how much muscle mass I’ve retained even while on a lower protein dose. I’ve definitely lost a little bit but visually in the mirror I still look very muscular.

[@PaulnJenna]

@@btanonymous thanks and I agree... Keep us all posted how you get on as time goes by

[@bgrune1]

I have been doing the Prolon Fasting Mimicking diet at least twice a year for the last five years. People say it is expensive but when you take the amount of research that was put into it and it's proven efficacy I would consider it a bargain.

[@keefeweekers5739]

Man, the more you.know, the more confused.you get. One lonegvity doctor says: protein is king, the other one says you.shouldn't eat a lot of protein under 65.

[@remcovisser7927]

I fear that it will take at least 50-100 years before the combination of 3-4 days of fasting and cancer therapy will become commonplace, while there is already a lot of evidence NOW that it is often effective and virtually risk-free. This is actually very sad.

[@Ciskuss]

I'm confused. I'm 40 and what protein intake do i need? We need a recap of what to do like Huberman

[@efanjul5768]

It would be interesting to compare the effects of the Fasting Mimicking Diet with the effects of Intermittent Fasting. With regard to cancer, in its early stages, it only uses the glycolysis fermentation process, so at this point, it would be probably more advisable to use the ketogenic- IF approach, avoiding carbs as much as possible.

[@anab3010]

it is indeed,IF has bebegits but only for "short" period such as a cancer treatment, ; in the long run it is not

[@efanjul5768]

@@anab3010 It has the benefit of autophagy, which allows the cells to recycle damaged protein, etc. into brand new stem cells, which translates into healthy longevity.

[@angeladavies]

In the gym now listening, noticing weakness from a year ago (aged54), eat Mediterranean w lot of yoghurt. Have lymphoma. Studying edx online Body Hacking: Using exercise physiology to slow Aging with Anne Friedlander. I am Sicilian decent. Conclusion I will stick with my diet and RT for as long as I can. Hopefully soon HRT I will prevent osteoporosis, sarcopenia. My parents and in-laws 80+ eat meat and 3 veg now issues with CVD, T2D, sarcopenia I hope science will enable a quality of life to a quick death.

[@ninadaniel]

Dr. Longo said IGF1 was the most responsible for longevity but HOW? By being low, high, or medium? Please clarify. I wish the interviewer asks for more clarifications, thank you.

[@sleepinglaffey3886]

The GHRD deficient people are a human model. - Meat based KD sprinter

[@mrgekko6386]

He said optimal IGF-1is between 120-160 (medium) and you can take a blood test, just google it.

[@arielmalanga]

Excellent podcast. I utilize the Prolon FMD several times a year.

[@in2097]

Question. how much reasearch you do on female subjects and addressing their hormone requirements?

[@oanairani41]

Best channel on youtube. Simon is so knowledgeable and it shows, asking the right questions every single time. Thank you so much Simon.

[@robertmacgregor8438]

This Valter interview is sooo good, and fantstic, excellent. He appears to be aging backwards before our eyes. This will probably be his last video before he needs to climb back into a womb. He is not a huckster at all.

[@bitfinesse]

With every question about protein and IGF-1, all I hear is, “how quickly can I grow muscle, how many grams of protein can I eat per day and not get cancer?” Lol. Anything above 0.8 grams per super-lean kg of body mass seems detrimental. You can still grow muscles - but it takes longer. Patience is a virtue.

[@JustJulia-qt9nh]

Fantastic episode! Thanks so much for the thoughtful questioning. I’m definitely going to need to give this a second listen.

[@marcusryder95]

Ive been doing home water fasting for 7 years. Ive you are gradual or progress and over time, you should be fine. Im now at a point where I do 1-2 14 day water fasts per year, and still work (office work). Hard but satisfying and way cheaper than doing in a group or one on one support system.

[@JC-ct4yc]

Interested to know Marcus why you choose 14 days rather than more frequent, shorter fasts. Thanks.

[@milanm403]

@@JC-ct4yc 14 days?

[@elephantintheroom5678]

I agree with you, water fasting for that amount of time is quite manageable, and very good for you, but only if you ensure you are getting enough sleep at night. I have seen studies showing that if the person fasting doesn't get adequate sleep that their body begins to break down its muscles in search of glucose, whereas it otherwise breaks down fat stores for fuel. I don't think that it's healthy to fast for longer than that in one go, though. Good on you.

[@ThePathOfEudaimonia]

Why 14 days?

[@johnyst5139]

@@elephantintheroom5678 its healthy as long as you drink water

[@ruthlopez288]

How about the liver?? I have liver non alcoholic cirrhosis, would I get some benefit by following the FMD?

[@StephenMarkTurner]

Perhaps the way to 'have your cake and eat it too' is to markedly periodize your training. A phase of hypertrophy training, along with a high protein high calorie diet. Then another longer phase, but use less exercise and food and protein to maintain gains. Then repeat.

[@actyrrel]

Cycles have historically been part of life. Seasons , day/ night , droughts etc. I fully agree with you on an anabolic period.

[@S7ilgar]

You can build muscles with one full-body session a week, high protein intake 24h after, moderate/normal protein intake the rest of the week. Or you can temporarily increase protein intake for a year or two until you reach your goal in mass and strength, and then switch to the previous pattern for maintenance.

[@StephenMarkTurner]

I think it is possible to see the rda as a rather low value, but also not go overboard with the safety margin. I am 66, so I do try for a little more, but under 100 g per day.

[@lindsay8845]

There's a couple of things that surprised me with VL,s longevity diet plan....day 3 breakfast was toast and no added sugar jam...fair enough, if u like jam. Id swap the jam for avocado on gluten free toast. Also he says in his book, eat what your ancestors would have had. Agreed, mine probably had potatoes, fish and cheese but not pasta, rice, quinoa. But There's no way am giving up veg OR VEGAN curry cause I love it!

[@lindsay8845]

And eggs lol.

[@diggingshovelle9669]

Does the FMD provide plant protein and /or fish protein carb fats over five days and the reduction in calories reduced to on the fifth day?

[@ThePathOfEudaimonia]

What is the optimal amount of days of prolonged (water) fasting, before going into the more energy conservation mode?

[@hogi99]

Min 3 days. No maximum as long as you have fat to burn.

[@edharding8372]

I’m unconvinced, for me a good diversity of quality protein of all kinds and quality fruit and vegetables not a restricted diet. Needs to be quality, no processed foods.

[@kardste8114]

What kind of diet would Dr. Longo recommend for a frail person with Cancer cachexia? I’m still confused about the research of plant vs animal protein in animals..if they are using plant isolates vs. Whole plants with fiber and other nutrients- how reliable it can be for humans who eat their protein via whole plants.????

[@sleepinglaffey3886]

More specifically. anabolism comes from Methonione and BCAAs which activate MTOR. Unfortunately you don't have a lot of good choices with Anabolic resistance (MTOR hyperactivation leads to sarcopenic muscle). I would consider anaerobic exercise and a high fat. semi low to moderate KD with a relatively strict IF schedule. - Meat based KD sprinter

[@elenacainas8182]

Does any one have the specifics of the FMD done without Prolon? What can one consume those five days?

[@ukulelespacestation1562]

He gives general guidelines in his book. You can also search for some non-official diy guides onlone. Also the FMD subreddit

[@iyanurgaliyeva3938]

Simon, thanks a lot for the interview. There is one question for u to think. Hope u read the comments The question is: why do ppl after 65y need more protein? What is the reason of doing so? May b the issue is about liver. It makes a huge work in protein manufacturing. So, may be ppl don t need too much protein after 65, too. May b we need to think about what is going on with liver health? Also, there r some guys who say that ppl can build protein by utilisation of endogenic protein cells. This seems to be logic. This is what I, personnaly, think and will not have higher protein intake in future. Protein is cancer provoquing. Our protein enzymes r better to digest inner protein cells, not exogenous ones.

[@bigpicturegains]

Here’s a thought 💭 Maybe the problem is triggering too much growth under the wrong circumstances. In the context of an unhealthy diet and lifestyle, perhaps signaling for growth is potentially dangerous, as your body isn’t functioning great. However, flip the scrip and turn on growth factors under a healthy context and I am willing to bet results will be very very different.

[@van123446]

one more addition, and he does mention to a degree, take a look at the results of Paleomedicina in Hungary as regards to cancer results using high fat and moderate protein. An amazing podcast would be to have Zsophia Clemmens from Paleomedicina and Valter and step back and let them go at it.

[@olyav5819]

Good video. I wonder what the low IGF-1 number Valter is talking about. How low that number should be?

[@mrgekko6386]

He said optimal IGF-1is between 120-160 (medium) and you can take a blood test, just google it.

[@ThingsYoudontwanttohear]

Is there an influence of exercise and body fat level on the effectiveness of the fast/fmd? I have seen some very lean, very active people try fmd, but I wonder how much more beneficial fmd is for people like that. Then again it could be even more effective at that level of leaness and conditioning as some time ago I saw a study review video, on Physionic I believe, about how autophagy is limited while fasting in people with more body fat. The same correlation could exist for fmd.

[@Bryndezy]

Exercise is I believe useful when fasting for health as it also helps depletes glucose stores. For myself I have found in the past that it helps me feel better when I fast.

[@lucvandermeeren]

Fantastic interview. Thank you both. The protein leverage hypothesis states that human beings will prioritize the consumption of protein in food, and will eat until protein needs have been met, regardless of energy content, thus leading to over-consumption of foodstuffs when their protein content is low. If this is true, It would imply that a low protein diet would be difficult for most people to adhere to. Any thoughts on this?

[@tatywork9126]

@@TheProofWithSimonHill 1.6 per kg is not even a lot. if i weigh 50 kg, it is 80 gr, not that much. i checked with a nutritionist, and at 51 i am underweight, with low muscle mass and 18 % body fat. i really like the cancer protection promise of Prof Longo's dietary approach, but if i follow it, i will never change my body composition. may be i shouldn't? i eat fish or chicken every day if i start eating beans and pasta, i will turn into a low energy, skinny fat always bloated over middle age woman :D i strength train 4 times a week and i am physically very active. i really hope he is wrong!

[@carinaekstrom1]

@@TheProofWithSimonHill Yes, and can certain gut microbiome compositions be satisfied on less protein than others?

[@theartofbellydance]

@@panes840 yes but whole food that has fiber

[@theartofbellydance]

@@carinaekstrom1 I have always wondered this too. The microbiome has to play a role in protein synthesis and muscle growth

[@carinaekstrom1]

@@theartofbellydance Yes, it plays a role in all kinds of nutrition absorption, I would think.

[@JC-ct4yc]

It's good to have these recommendations for precise amounts of protein intake but how do you practically measure this each day? I eat a very varied plant diet and never weigh or record my food. Are other listeners using any particular methods or apps to help with this complicated protein measurement task? Any advice would be very welcome. Looking forward to Simon's summing up of the protein topic.

[@sammakesitsimple6827]

Cronometer is easy, and a food scale is easy to use once you build the habit :)

[@wallyrbc]

I also use Chronometer.

[@eternalwarrior-yp2qx]

16:34 How do IGF-1 levels increase when growth hormone is secreted but when doing prolonged fasting growth hormone levels see a 3 to 5 fold rise but IGF-1 levels are very low?

[@user-nk2ub1hd2p]

I wish it would have been asked what about protein intake when one is doing a low calorie diet? Wouldn’t one want higher protein for example .8 to 1 gram per pound of lean mass? To prevent muscles loss? Especially because he said 10 percent of protein but I’m going to assume those people were in maintenance

[@emmanuelking9988]

Great information and conversation, thank you. I was on Keto for twos year due to type 2 diabetes and it helped me out of diabetic range BUT then I was diagnosed with multiple myeloma cancer...so what Dr. Longo discusses at around 1:16:00 makes lots of sense. I no longer believe that keto or any one diet done exclusively long term is a 100% cure all for all illnesses.

[@chrisliang6250]

@Simon, why no questions about Donald Layman's criticism's?

[@chrisliang6250]

@@TheProofWithSimonHill thanks very interesting interview

[@traveler65]

I have seen many interviews with Dr. Valter Longo....He always brings up fish as a protein for longevity. Can you please address the fact that fish have heavy metals in them mainly Mercury also Cadmium, cromium, nickel, copper, lead and zinc are some others. Why is this not talked about? Thanks

[@canadianloon6433]

I'm with you. Fish diet is the worst. They won't address it because they'll have nothing to say.

[@traveler65]

@@canadianloon6433 I know... what's up with that?

[@ksitigarbha9787]

Robbie Williams had to quit his fish based diet due to Mercury poisoning

[@HEWhitney1]

The FMD is super simple. I've done it three times. It's a wonderful reset, but it's not a weight loss diet. 1,100-calories day 1 and 800-calories per day days 2-5. Here's the tricky part: calories are divided 45% Carbohydrates, 45% fats and 10% proteins. Day 1 = 450g boiled potatoes, 1 hard boiled egg, 10 olives, 500g homemade vegetable soup, 1 avocado, 1-tbsp butter. Days 2-5= 225g boiled potato, 1 boiled egg, 10 olives, 500g vegetable soup, 1 avocado. Day 3 is the tough keto flu day for me. Refeeding after day 5: eat only very high quality whole food because that's what your body is using to create all the new cells replacing the bad cells consumed during the FMD autophagy cycle. Expect to gain all of your weight back which 80% will be water.

[@Jonases_20]

i have psoriatic arthritis. and i've been doing OMAD for almost 2 weeks now. i lost some pounds now and i'm hoping to also improve my symptoms as it is truly hurting. i know that this disease is irreversible in western medicine. but ỉn functional medicine it can

[@cherylmcduff5388]

Look up Dr Eduardo Beltran. He is having great results with his patients

[@dannywitt5160]

What about anabolic resistance in those over the age of 60????

[@petar.dj98]

Is it possible that high protein diets don’t impair longevity in people who do resistance training? I heard that IGF1 in that case causes growth in the muscles rather than in the stuff we don’t want. Sorry if you adressed this, haven’t watched all of the video yet

[@zacharycain8914]

Simon asks that question specifically in the section "impact of exercise on IGF1". Longo doesn't give a clear answer IMO, just says he did a trial w/ some older ladies and they were able to gain muscle w/o very high protein. But "noob gains" are a well known phenomenon and besides that answer doesn't tell us anything about cancer risk / longevity / etc

[@unassailable6138]

I only ate white meat and grains and was healthy but after a while my hips got swollen and i couldnr take a single step, laid im bed for 3 weeks. Now carnivore diet and i can walk and run again, 2lbs a day of pork! Calcium, magnesium and potassium supplements. Vegetarian, Mediterranean diet and carbs sound great but fiuk up your teeth and joints

[@MultiCII]

It sound like you have a problem with gluten. The only way to know is be tested. See a competent gastroenterologist who does small bowel biopsy for celiac disease and the adjunctive blood tests. Blood test alone are not adequate. If he/she excludes celiac disease then the next step is eliminate wheat, barley and rye in the diet. If a person then improves that is a diagnosis of nonceliac wheat sensitivity but 1st celiac disease must be excluded by biopsy. Good luck to you.

[@arleenm7367]

Thanks for the interview. It's been many many years since I had a course in biochemistry. It would seem that there is a fine line between too much protein and not enough according to Dr. Longo. I do long-distance running and I'm wondering if endurance athletes (marathoners and ultra-marathoners) would need as much (or more) protein than than say body builders. How about if we are over 65? Would he recommend the FMD during training for an athletic event?

[@Fletch_and1]

@@TheProofWithSimonHill Another great interview Simon. These podcasts are definitely challenging my bias 😂 I’ve really enjoyed the Don Layman podcast and now this one. I’m still leaning towards the Don Layman argument but like everything the truth often is somewhere in the middle and Valtor has some very interesting research. One thing that I’m often left thinking is when researchers start talking about risk and reducing risk of cancer, CHD etc. For someone like myself that isn’t particularly good with maths and statistics I’d be interested in future episodes breaking this down. It’s often easy to be very reactive when hearing new information especially regarding diet and lifestyle. Keep them coming buddy 👍🏻

[@nickseccombe1357]

Dr Longo, has human faeces been analysed to demonstrate that large numbers of damaged organ cells have really been expelled during fasting? Thanks

[@foolproofmastery]

Looking forward to the Q&A episode. Valter recommends going as low as 0.7 g/kg BW at some point which is below the RDA. Considering the worldwide obesity crisis, I'm not convinced that this is a good strategy. Lower protein may equal lower satiety if it's not compensated by increased fibre. The average person may end up eating empty calories in our western world as that's what is most readily available to us. In my opinion, both protein and fibre should be prioritised rather than focusing on the cellular mechanisms and making these extreme recommendations. Muscle mass seems to have some correlation with increased longevity also and it will likely be difficult to build muscle mass eating 0.7 g/kg BW.

[@foolproofmastery]

@@TheProofWithSimonHill Appreciate the reply. How low would you say we can go in protein (g/kg BW) and still manage to gain muscle with a sufficient resistance training program. In the interview, Valter suggests decreasing protein just before the point where you start losing muscle mass. Please grill him on this if you get the chance. Some of the vegan sub-group may struggle to meet average protein intake if they do not have an understanding of good protein sources. So it would be interesting to know if that would have an effect on their muscle mass even if they have a good resistance program.

[@contrarian717]

​@@panes840 starch = BS spikes. For many.

[@contrarian717]

@@panes840 I'm too dumb for this mate. Yes Mcdougal will floor me 6-0 and 6-0. Defenetely. All I know, whenever I personally eat starch my glucose meter goes high, despite all my tricks. And I'm a healthy, no issues normal chap. If I do a small meal the spike is not too bad. But then I'm not satiated (or satisfied) and hungry again after 1 hour. Maybe I'm the odd one out 😋

[@contrarian717]

@@panes840 many thanks. Take your points. Same same old story I guess right.... we all differ. And each 'camp' has it's success stories and failures. Thanks for my blessing and I wish the same on you 🙏

[@andreasrydstrom9112]

As a scandinavian I'm glad to hear dr Longo say "Thor is everywhere."

[@YogaPinay]

FMD is proprietary.. it is a business. The bottomline is that there is still no conclusive findings on high fat ketogenic diet, people are doing it on their own and getting positive results..No need for scientists to dictate what will work if something is already working.

[@LeighaButler]

Have you interviewed Dr. Michael Greger? Would LOVE to listen to that interview gold.

[@sonioli3207]

but what about people who live in tropical countries whose ancestors did not have to get fat in order to survive winter because there was no winter..? There are bananas and other fruits all year round.. would they evolve to have different metabolic machinery?

[@kencarey3477]

Eat a mostly raw pescaterian diet with no whole grains how important are they?

[@GoldenesFischen]

Such an interesting interview! This is what I am curious about: if the fasting mimicking diet can be done up to every month, should women somehow coordinate it with their cycle? Is there any time of the cycle that would make the diet most feasible and benefitial?

[@laisa.]

According to dr Mindy Pelz this would be in phase 1 if the cycle, meaning the 10 days from the day you bleed. Then fasting can be done as much as wanted.

[@jellybeanvinkler4878]

I wish one, in this intercourse would have said or asked, if the FMD induced ketosis. Or could. Especially in the context of cancer. Because fasting in itself will put you in a state of ketosis eventually. If the FMD is indeed mimicking fasting, then one will go I to at least a mild state of ketosis. Which seemed to be a negative for Dr Longo, at least in certain cancers. Just saying THE keto diet is like saying THE Mediterranean diet. The titles tell me nothing. Because there are many interpretations of these various diets. I guess I will have to research what exactly to eat or not eat in order to follow the FMD, and test my ketones (I have a keto mojo device and strips). I do admire Dr Longo for his nonprofit work. Though, I believe, initially, he was testing in order to develop his product.

[@maribelrios6562]

What is a little bit longer?

[@tarkgun4251]

Still don't understand why FMD is better then prolonged fasting. Fasting is way easier. No big deal to have a 5 days fast from time to time, especially if you are fat adapted . Plus you may have some autophagy benefits with zero calories.

[@willow05]

They touch in this. It’s not good for everyone, if you are diabetic, frail, low body weight etc. Zero calories can be very dangerous for some people

[@talks2squirrels953]

makes a ton of money. over 300 bucks for powdered soup and nuts

[@tarkgun4251]

@@talks2squirrels953 that's what i thought.

[@yogiyoda]

Good interview. But I would have liked for you to address Dr Layman's concerns with Dr Longo. Why were the mouse control groups fed ad libitum etc.?

[@ggwebcast]

Excellent interview

[@ginodumitru2529]

I'm in carnivore diet for 6 months and feel great I don't know how long I will stay but I do this experiment to see how my body react, after 6 years of plant base

[@ginodumitru2529]

@@TheProofWithSimonHill After watching your podcast I'm a little scared because of the amount of protein that I consume of course I'm trying to have higher fat than protein but still . The good thing about is that my HDL got from 27 in plant base to 69 in carnivor and triglyceride from 77 in plant base to 43 in carnivor. For the six years in plant base my HDL was that low. After the holidays maybe I should consider Mediterranean diet.

[@blockaderunner]

I started the same in November 2022 to recover from being sick in late October 2022 (much greens in diet). With fasting in December off and on, I feel Great just as you do. I sleep with soaring deep dreams as well. Of course, I am working hard long hours which may be causing the dreaming/deep sleep. I do intense 30 minute exercise (kettlebells) once a week or every 2 weeks at the end of a fast. I feel way stronger than I have for the past 3 years of supposed "healthy" eating (smoothies, the whole bit the mainstream tells us).

[@ginodumitru2529]

@@CRM-114 I should be scared of people like you

[@ginodumitru2529]

@@CRM-114 Look for Dr. Paul Mason. Dr. KenOBerry. Dr. Anthony Chaffe. Dr. Shawn Baker then we talk

[@ginodumitru2529]

@@CRM-114 I'm not a follower , stay were you are and follow what the elites push for you. The government's will never be happy when a doctor wants to speak the truth.

[@SpindlyScoudrel]

So, I want to do a five day FMD at home, is it in his book? Where do we find out exactly what to do - I understand he didn't want to sell his own product.

[@arielmalanga]

Prolon is the company.

[@sarahowick5456]

You can't replicate Prolon--have to purchase it online. It's not cheap.

[@SpindlyScoudrel]

Thanks, it's certainly not cheap if you want to do it a couple of times a year. That water fast is looking more appealing!🤣

[@reason3581]

There are instructions how to do it yourself without Prolon in his book The Longevity Diet.

[@reason3581]

@Betty Amber The longevity diet is his recommendations for the everyday diet. The book also has instructions for doing the FMD without buying the Prolon. Nuts, olive oil, veggies etc.

[@cypriano8763]

ok, how to make the bridge in between what dr longo and dr layman say on protein (quantity and quality) and the diet heart hypothesis. how much does saturated fat, apob, cholesterol contribute to the development of heart disease as opposed to processed carbs, or even carbs in general. Does lipogenesis and inflamation from a high carb diet contribute significantly to the formation of arterial plaque. How can we reconcile these 2 seemingly opposite views on nutrition.

[@reason3581]

Whole food carbs do not cause inflammation or atherosclerosis.