Harman Phoenix - Testing a New, Funky 35mm Film!

[@evanduffy1015]

Little Format Friday :)

[@LaurRants]

Tiny Format Friday!

[@frankwhiteiv4]

Matt, thanks a BUNCH for talking about scanning and running your tests in the studio! Your video is the only one I’ve seen to go that far in depth in to the performance of this film. Your results are wildly encouraging for what this film is.

[@MatMarrash]

Thanks a bunch, and recently updated the description with a link to a blog post detailing more of the quick tests!

[@AlexLuyckxPhoto]

Some fantastic news on a dull rainy day here in Ontario! Looking forward to trying this out and already have my order in at the FPP!

[@dude463waze6]

Merry Christmas Matt, to you and everyone involved with the channel.

[@ChristopherMay]

Some unique looking stuff. Glad to see a bit of innovation out there. And big kudos to Harman for making it availabile as soon as it was announced. As someone who's still waiting for his Cinestill 400D (or even an update on it...), this is really appreciated.

[@MatMarrash]

CS s ent email updates out the other night, fingers crossed we should see it soon!

[@ChristopherMay]

@@MatMarrash Interesting. Just checked my e-mail, including spam folders and didn't see anything from them. Oh well. Fingers crossed that it's actually going to be delivered soon.

[@MatMarrash]

@@ChristopherMay definitely hit them up sooner than later: [e-mail]

[@MLinden111]

I got my email from Cinestill on the 29th. Def reach out to them to make sure they have your info!

[@kleanish]

availble on reformed film lab

[@MarksPhoto]

Good on Ilford to do this, I hope they can proceed and improve. This should also point out just how difficult it is to make good modern color emulsions. A solid 'what the heck' to The Darkroom for being on the approved list, knowing this stuff was incoming, and not having a scan profile / procedure set up to catch the Phoenix film, and show Ilford's efforts to their best effect.

[@Resgerr]

It's not Ilford but Harman the parent company of Ilford and Kentmere that's making this.

[@arildedvardbasmo490]

Definitely odd that The Darkroom didn't show betters scans than this...

[@williamcurwen7428]

I think this is a fantastic achievement by Harman. OK, 3-4 stops dynamic range? Overcast twilight and it’s a winner. Scan in RGB colour, invert, and colour correct - easy. Such a beautiful look. Does it have an anti-halation backing? Doesn’t look like it - again a bonus for deliberate halos in highlights. Yes, a niche product and well worth the money.

[@andrewbroekhuijsen6770]

THANK YOU for the clarity. H saw results all over the map before I finally set aside time to watch your video. Some of it looked like straight up redscale. Ilford's results looked green-tinted. Others seemed to have punchy blues. Glad to know it's mostly because freaking nobody knows how to scan it yet. I'm no expert at scanning color negative, but I do it in-house and every roll gets its own film base density and color calibrated before I start actually spitting out TIFFs. Once you got the scanning thing figured out, your results actually looked way better than anything else I had seen to this point. I'm with you on wanting to buy and use this stuff because it will fund further R&D. I've been an Ilford fanboy for a long time, and even if v1 of the film isn't mind-blowingly good compared to the old standby Gold 200 or what have you, it's worth investing in IMO. I rarely do anything with color negative film anyway besides shooting family snapshots with my half frame, and I'm not above color correcting those scans if necessary :D

[@maxwellwellmax878]

To be fair Mat, your images came out alot better than some of the other KZbinrs. Harman has ways to go but at least they're trying.

[@CalumetVideo]

Thanks for the video! I think it’s awesome that Harman is manufacturing a color film. Personally, I mostly shoot medium and large format film. It will be nice once they can manufacture 120 and sheet films.

[@MatMarrash]

Fingers crossed we see a future version of Phoenix in larger sizes. So far Harman have not ruled out that possibility!

[@Bunnyisms]

I might try it! Miniature format!

[@michaelharmon7162]

Hey its good to see this and its good to see a video by you. Things are going good here for me in China. I may have to give this film a try in one of my little rollies.

[@Francois_L_7933]

It's funny because I would see this becoming really popular for album covers, especially if they bring it out in 120. But that purple base must be hell to print using an enlarger!

[@MatMarrash]

Super hardcore mode is color printing this! But maybe could be cool printing B&W?

[@TristanColgate]

​@@MatMarrashRibsy has had great results printing. He says it takes a lot of yellow filtration. Good on him for not speculating and just trying it!

[@jonathanhotopf1823]

Great to see your response to this new colour film. I’m looking forward to seeing future iterations of this, hopefully be too long before it’s available in LF. By the way the focus on the K1000 can be nailed using the micro prism if you’ve got one of the original Japanese models.

[@davidxflood]

Looks like the Fuji Instax Wide that I shot on my 4x5, high contrast, dynamic range of 3 - 4 stops and grainy!

[@StudioC41]

Well done Mat! I believe commercial scanners are very capable. It just requires a lot of tweaking. The scan guidance from Harman is a good starting point. Ultimately, the results you get will depend lab tech’s eye for color. I will critique Harman rolled this out too quickly and labs will have to play catch up and users will get some really bad scans early on. I believe the announcement should have been made, give labs a trial period and then open the shelves a couple weeks later. A lesson learned for rushing this to retail. I agree, home scanning creates the best results. Great work with the studio session!

[@MatMarrash]

I'm hoping that how this campaign launched was that color is a new territory for Harman. Labs are a crucial part to the film photography ecosystem that many a DIY or hyper-niche film shooter tend to forget. Either way, there's been a lot of positive buzz and I hope to see more refined emulsions rolling out of the UK soon!

[@UnePatateDouce]

I'll wait for the 4x5 version... No... I'll pray for.

[@MatMarrash]

A film like this is begging for a larger size. So far the interest in the 35mm is encouraging!

[@xander1052]

I am so lucky that my normal film lab (Silverpan) spent all their film they got sent from Harman to dial in their lab scanners and make them work with Nortisu scanners.

[@MatMarrash]

The datasheet Harman put together has a lot of great info and shows they put in the hard work! I just wish it would have gone out or had been offered digitally in time for more people to get an idea what the film can really do when testing.

[@codysergeant1486]

Congrats to the 20k subs Mat!

[@MatMarrash]

Wow holy sheesh this is crazy! 0_0

[@nate_0723]

It is definitely a strange stock, but I will be getting a roll or two to support the project!

[@tonyzhu403]

The Orange Shifted Scan looks nice in my opinion. The color of nostalgia?

[@liveinaweorg]

1970's in a roll. Hats off to Harman, I'll be buying some just to support the project. Thanks Mat, nice to see you back and honest as always.

[@RhettThompsonFilm]

So I think a normal processing would be fine but maybe it would be best to save the negatives from this film and scan them myself?

[@ikentspell2659]

The fact that it is contrasty and that It has a bluish base might make it a good and more affordable substitute for slide/color positive film

[@MatMarrash]

Once I started color correcting the scans I was getting some Ektachrome-ish vibes!

[@b6983832]

You mean a substitute for making digital scans out of slide film, or do you mean cross processing? This is a negative film, and slides projected in inverted colors are hardly usable.

[@texomatic]

Would be cool if they added 4x5 Phoenix... Regardless, I may have to pick up a roll or 7 of this stuff!

[@MatMarrash]

Something with this grain pattern and color palette is begging for a larger format!

[@Resgerr]

🤔 think they'll go to 120 next in size before large format

[@MatMarrash]

@@Resgerr Eagerly awaiting anything larger! :)

[@ViaOjo]

I still want some!!!

[@MatMarrash]

Same here, I've got some funky things I still want to do to it!

[@MarksPhoto]

All the more reason to follow Mat- He has a borzoi / hose goat / noodle horse. She's so pretty, maybe not quite yet elegant, being a puppy, but that should come.

[@MatMarrash]

Our house of hounds continues to grow, and the snoots are showing no signs of stopping! :D

[@nanddis]

Hi Matt, so many days from your last video. We miss you. I hope everything goes well and we can see you soon

[@chriscard6544]

Hi, I would like to have your opinion about Stenopeika cameras, I have the air force 4x5. Im half happy, it is a good camera, a lot of movements are possible. The built is mainly good but in some details, you can see some scratches, level spirits are not correctly glued etc I did some close up portraits: it is very sharp. There are some helpful pieces to zero-ing except the back board.

[@confrontingphotography4815]

I have been cringing all day looking the Harmon 200 videos done by KZbinrs who have no idea what they are doing. So much praise and analysis of the film based on OBVIOUSLY jacked up lab scans. It’s both funny and sad that these folks can’t tell what they are looking at. Your video should have gone to everyone Harmon sent test rolls to so they could have watched it BEFORE making their own videos.

[@MatMarrash]

I don't blame folks for being relatively in the dark like this. I was only able to get the datasheet after asking a major distributor and got it < 24 hours before this video went live. Hoping in the future that the campaign and testing period are more standardized so the films can be shown in their best light.

[@confrontingphotography4815]

@@MatMarrash I mostly agree, Harmon didn't do a good job communicating what their goals or technical standards are for this film, didn't really give the community a good starting point to work with. But on the photographer's side of things, it appears that most folks didn't bother shooting any charts. If someone is going to shoot a color film "test" and not shoot any charts . . . they are gonna get what they deserve.

[@TristanColgate]

It's great to see test charts. But honestly, who cares? You're either going to get on with it, or not. They aren't claiming this is Kodachrome

[@confrontingphotography4815]

@@TristanColgate I'd say charts matter because film is a tool, charts, latitude tests, etc quantify the parameters in which we get on with it, and increase the likelihood that we get the results we want. So many of the videos posted on Friday were people getting on with it very poorly because the didn't understand the tool they were using. What's worse, the videos showed that they didn't understand that they didn't understand. A lot of KZbinrs should just stick with shooting Portra 400.

[@BenGibsSr]

I commend Harman on this but it shows just how hard it is to build new color film stocks and even more, how hard it is to manufacture it at scale. I hope they continue to have the money to invest. The reason Kodak can still do it is because they never stopped and maintained the generational knowledge from the decades since new film stocks were created. Every Photo enthusiast should try this if they can get it and give feedback to Harman. IT is probably the most important part of "experiment".

[@MatMarrash]

^-- This right here! It's a monumental task to take on, especially when the only other big player in the market has half a century's head-start. Even if you don't like the look of this film, there are dozens of other ways you can support Harman's research through their excellent B&W products.

[@tonyhayes9827]

Work in progress... But the images at 4:48 and 5:50 and 6:50 and 7:09 and 7:18 (EV 0 and then next at EV +1) have got `something.'

[@njc2o]

I agree the entire marketing blitz and influencer strategy was very bizarre. Knew it would be disappointing. I’ll pick up a roll or two to support new films and try it out but the results I’ve seen this morning have been roughhhh

[@fotoralf]

None of the reasons why one would normally use colour neg film. This stuff is grainy, has a lousy exposure latitude and can't be printed on RA-4 paper. So, what's the point?

[@arildedvardbasmo490]

How is literally new film from a major manufacturer who hasn't done colour film, disappointing? This is huge news - it takes us a step away from a time where only is Kodak making real colour film, and having occasional batches of film coated in Germany sold through Orwo and Lomography.

[@tiktian]

@@arildedvardbasmo490 Well they did used to make ciba/ilfochrome which was used directly for shooting in large format, and that stuff was gorgeous! It was discontinued in 2012 a year before ektachrome was first discontinued. So this 1960s hot back room consumer film is a bit of a travesty.....

[@Elevanfilm]

I ordered two rolls from the dealer, can't wait to develop it with E6 process since it's a experimental film, why not be more experimental🤣

[@MatMarrash]

It can't get much crunchier, so why not?! :)

[@b6983832]

Can this film be printed in darkroom, or will the requirements for filtration be out of range of normal color heads?

[@MatMarrash]

Harman indicates it is possible, though doesn't provide exact filtration notes in the datasheet. I'm guessing there's still testing to be done there: www.harmanphoto.co.uk/amfile/file/download/file/1962/product/2143/

[@b6983832]

@@MatMarrash Ir is not easy to give any filtration notes for RA-4, as all papers have a bit different requirements, and this can slightly deviate between batches of paper. Also, developers (only part of chemistry affecting density and color balance) by different manufacturers do have slight differences in results. Also, there is no universal standard for color correction. There are three big standards - Kodak, Agfa and Durst. Also, older Meoptas have differences - needing often more magenta correction compared to Durst. I keep wondering, if this film prints, as all information in the internet is from people scanning. Will the required filtration be in the range of normal color heads, or do you need to do tricks, as using a blank standard C-41 negative? This works up to a certain point, but as the orange mask in standard film is not uniform, it would make pictures with big differences of exposure in different parts of the frame very hard (color crossing). I ordered this film, and we´ll see how it worki when I will get my rolls.

[@bilonggrisimmeri]

@@b6983832 Try about 100 Y and 60 M for a first test.

[@tomjanowski8584]

Did I understand you correctly? The Darkroom is recommended by Harman to process this film but they still scanned it incorrectly?

[@DEFilmProductions]

Does limited run mean they’re still going to make it? Or that once they’re out, they’re done?

[@MatMarrash]

They left it pretty open-ended, but my interpretation was that this particular run of film may not be repeated, but a better version could be offered in the future.

[@Resgerr]

Like Mat says they're look to improve it all the time. They know it's limitations already and will be looking to how they can improve it. Don't forget this is a new film from base upwards, so they'll always be looking to move forward with it. They're are look to the future with the film.

[@williampratt1066]

So it looks like they’re using the same base as XP2+

[@bartoszkrawczyk4976]

That's exactly right, some other youtuber (I belive it was grainydays) posted bits of interview with Harman employees and they are open that it is based on XP2+

[@aeronemcq]

i wish someone made a reversal friendly film base for scanning in this age, given how scanners are hard to come by for common folks. ive switched almost exclusively to dlsr capturing film and using darktable to do the inversion but some films/exposure situations it cant handle. i can also see some more casual shooters using this film being put off by it because the first results they see are over/under exposed images from the lab scans. i dont know, i like that this is new stock but yes, maybe the marketing was over hyped.

[@alexinnewwest1860]

That film base almost looks like some of there BW film base, maybe there figuring out there emulsion first before they attack the film base r&d

[@MatMarrash]

That's what several other YT'ers have been reporting. Smart move, since there's no point in fully correcting a still-improving product.

[@bilonggrisimmeri]

@@MatMarrash No no no no no!!!! It's because there are no integral masking layers on Phoenix 200. Integral masking is a very weak yellow positive image and a very weak magenta positive image. I believe blue masks green and green masks red, though it's many years ago I studied this.

[@fotoralf]

Still trying to see the point of a print film that can't be printed in a conventional darkroom on traditional RA-4 paper. Looks like something for the Lomography crowd who like whatever is the latest hype as long as it looks weird. As someone who has shot colour neg film over several decades I'm quite unimpressed.

[@MatMarrash]

Harman states in their datasheet that this can be color printed, though they do not provide starting guides like the do for scanning. I'd recommend checking out their correction notes for Noritsu scanners for hints on where to start if you're seriously considering this with RA-4. www.harmanphoto.co.uk/amfile/file/download/file/1962/product/2143/

[@Drcraigfreeman]

This film would be great in those toy plastic cameras, unless you actually like pointillism and odd color balamce 🎉

[@thomashewitt2597]

Matt... what is happening with your channel you don't publish much content these days

[@sorry4all]

Quite crappy but keeping film alive feels more important.

[@zy8719]

Already sold out lol

[@MatMarrash]

Wow! 0_0

[@londonskaterboi]

i'll pass, in fact no more colour film for me

[@MatMarrash]

Fret not, you can also support Harman's efforts by picking up any of their excellent B&W films and papers!