Matching Up Surface To Your Ball Speed -

[@Skyeatsmike]

This is one of the best videos on bowling period.

[@scenicmyles]

Great, great video, all your videos are very helpful in taking your game to the next level, keep them coming!

[@jameslong9564]

I like 3000 quite a bit. Takes the shine off.

[@timwatson3192]

I'm love surface under polish as well as skip sanding

[@davidk2137]

Great info for me. I am a senior that is definatly rev dominate and this option will be great for me. Especially since I LOVE my Phase II. Guess I will looking to buy another Phase II or two. Thanks!

[@trae1965]

Thanks so much Phil--your points are well taken. Question: how do lane/oil conditions inform grit grades? Thanks again, Coach.

[@ricka.wetselphdbowler3526]

Thanks! I have certainly found that surface is the most important factor in my game. Since I am speed dominant, I usually start a tournament or league with 500 grit on an asymetic ball (dull) and go from there. Since the 500 grit on the ball turns into 1500 to 2000 grit within a couple of games, I often do not need to change balls until the lanes become burned.

[@vBlaine]

I've just discovered this channel and I really enjoy discussion of the technical aspects of bowling. I don't currently have a Radical ball but am considering the new Bigfoot Hybrid.

[@charlesroulette5296]

Good job Thanks!

[@markr447]

I have three solid balls I use most in league and all have 2000 grit factory surface new. My benchmark is a Blackwidow 2.0, then a Track Stealth symmetric, and an Ebonite Envision asymmetric. Love DynamiCore balls. I throw 16.5mph on average and go up to 17.5 mph. On oilier long patterns the Stealth hits the pocket best. It hooks the most of all three and the 2000 grit is best at my speed to make the turn down lane. This ball rolls early with the quick response cover stock, but is smooth at the break point. On a shorter pattern with medium heavy oil the asymmetric Envision rolls later but makes a more aggrieve move into the pocket down lane than the Stealth. When both are over hooking or on a drier pattern I go to the benchmark for me the Blackwidow 2.0 and may play a little more left around the 10 or 15 board and use speed to adjust to the pocket as the lane condition changes. After 6 or more games on each ball I clean and hit them with the 2000 pad lightly by hand to remove lane shine and get them back closer to factory. After 10 pr more games I hit them with the 500 or 1000 griped lightly and then end with the 2000 pad. Polished balls at my speed do not hook enough and playing up the oily middle does not give me enough angle and leaves a lot of corner pins. Go more than 2000 with my low rev rate but higher speed gives to many splits and Brooklyns. The happy space for my balls is that 2000 grit. I used to throw a Radical Results Pearl and at my speed and low revs had to add some friction and snowball it in order to increase pin carry and play up the ten board. If I went up the 15 board and out to the five board it would not consistently get back to the pocket for me.

[@FredSoDak]

Radical Results Pearl & Hammer Web MB were my worst performing balls, at any surface -- could not get them to turn the corner unless short house pattern. Balls that have worked best for me --Pivot Hybrid, Swerve FX, Saber Pearl, Slant Pearl, GB Asym, Intimidator Pearl @ 3000 or 4000. 15.5 mph & 200 revs.

[@scottythompson940]

Cool tech bowling radical

[@SamFisher300]

My go to surface is 2k and I’ll go up or down depending on what the look is

[@brianmizway9324]

It's funny cuz when I was a teen in the 90s I didn't know you could adjust surface so I never did. And I felt the ball always had good power. Maybe there was less oil back then on the lanes, but today I have average rev rate and throw 16mph. But I feel all these balls just don't have the power and hook I'm looking for unless I use surface. Kind of annoying at times. So now I feel I need to start exploring changing my surfaces.

[@895takashi]

Im a speed dominant person, always have gravitated to 2000 grit, those balls always just score the highest

[@Jake61Haight]

what would be an ideal surface for someone throwing 2 handed at 18 mph?

[@michianabaddriversin4690]

Woth my speed and revs, a good pass with a 2000 pad is ideal

[@scorpion-ninja8228]

Phil, question for ya? If I sand by shiny ball down to say 2k grit. Will that make it hook earlier and smooth out the backend reaction much? AKA I have a brand new Ebonite THE ONE remix. Its OOB finish (polished) but the layout is Angular saving all energy in the backend. It hooks way to much and I have to take HAND OUT of it, and play lil bit straighter just to keep it in the pocket! If I move my feet waaaay left and crank it to 4th - 3rd arrow(right) the ball hooks waaay too much and leaves splits. I have 6 balls and this Angular motion is what I wanted to have as an option! I have other balls with different cores, surfaces, 3 Asym, 2 Sym, etc for different ball motion types!

[@dddavis75]

I have a question. How does sanding affect the lower end balls. I have the tropical surge and uses a 500 grit on it. It’s great for transition but still hooks too much on very dry. I bowl on a league that has a league bowl directly before we start so we never get fresh oil. The lanes be torched by the last game. What should I do surface wise with a ball as weak as the surge?

[@scottmoore1419]

❤ I Agree

[@willveniscofski1326]

so my son is a 2 hander that throws the ball 13MPH...can you recommend a ball...hes obsessed with Urethane at the moment

[@AverageLeagueHack]

Assuming his love of urethane is the tamer reaction you could try some entry-level resin equipment and drill them with a low flare layout. What Mo would call the short pin layout. Referencing the distance between the pin and the PAP.

[@jl4560]

I always hear the term "speed dominant". What does that mean?

[@AverageLeagueHack]

Your velocity overpowers your RPM. Ball struggles to slow down so that it can change direction.

[@blueyed_gemini6420]

At what speed is considered medium speed?

[@machinethesun9243]

Good topic. The main house I bowl on has heavy oil and a 44 foot pattern on new lanes. The speed dominant guys all bring the big strong solids, but some of them are now starting to put them at 1500 but with polish and that's working out for them. They can stay in the track longer this way as thats their comfort zone. And I'm doing something similar, even though I have a slower speed, low revs. Balls that used to be good for me at 2000 dull are no longer useful on this pattern, but I put a 3000 pad on them and just a bit of polish that I then buff out a bit with an old 3000 pad, and sometimes I can stay in that ball for all 3 games.

[@FredSoDak]

those lanes must be heavy duty friction; heavy oil, 44 feet and you need a 3000 polish & can't use same ball all 3 games... we have wood lanes, 41 feet medium oil and don't need to move more than a few boards, plus easily use same ball all 3 games. 4 man teams with stone st v2 & main st v2 patterns, heavier on the return oil. almost everyone's balls are 4000 or so because we only resurface at beginning of league & at halfway point -- 15 weeks apiece.

[@larryhudson1963]

@@FredSoDak the bowling center that I bowl at Jacksonville Florida is heavy oil gutter to gutter 45 ft there's some back end. My ball speed is about 15 mph, with about 300 revs. I use the Columbia speed, with an out of the box finish with a medium strength drilling. I'm right handed, I slide on 22 board set ball down on 17, swing ball out to the 10 board for my break point. Or I use my old Brunswick Zone pro active HPH with 1000 grit, with medium leverage drilling & play it up the 2nd arrow.

[@machinethesun9243]

@@FredSoDak my higher speed team mates throw big solid asyms, so the oil gets broken down very quickly. My speed is very slow 11- 13, so 3000 works the best. If I put 2000 on them, I have to get out of them in the first 5 frames. Also sometimes we play 2nd shift.

[@byronfranek2706]

Slightly rev dominant, medium speed, 17AT 50AR. I tend to use the same layout on most of my balls 60x3.75x30. Balls with lower diffs usually end up with duller surfaces around 1500 or 2000, and the midrange symm pearls (.04 diff) have a 1000/polish finish for moving deep inside after the lanes breakdown. I have only one strong asymm in my bag and it usually works best with 500/1500 surface on oily conditions. This year for the USBC Open, I am taking the Radical Fix I received at Mo's Proshop training class at Innovative in 2016.

[@FredSoDak]

I put a 4000 surface on everything -- that way the ball has less changes during multiple game sets. I am not "rich" & cannot afford a 7 ball bag -- 2 balls are what I own, 45° val solid & 35° val pearl, which I use on both wood & synthetic lanes, and take to our local 4,5, & 6 game qualifiers with stepladder.

[@tylerhernandez5207]

I don't necessarily agree with what everyone says about high speed bowlers need duller balls and slower bowlers need shinier balls. I'm a 2 hander with roughly 20-22 mph and about 400 or so revs. So my speed is pretty high, and I love shiny balls, dull balls never work on house, on sport dull, is the way to go for me. So it's all about whatever the person needs as a bowler

[@dennisbrinkley8613]

Speed dominate means the ball speed off the hand is higher than the rev rate of the bowling hand. The lack of revs make it likely the ball will not sufficiently flare to hit the pin deck pocket. Shiny pearl cover stock 3000 grit & higher can make the ball skid too long and result in losing too much energy to adequately flare at the breakpoint. It is best speed dominant bowlers throw solid lower grit surfaces to compensate for the lack of revs.

[@1985supramk2]

Why is scotch brite no longer used

[@jfabritz]

You can use the scotch brite pads, but the measured grit after application isn't as consistent as a foam pad at a rated grit.

[@jpgunny101]

Question: Is it dangerous to the lifespan of your ball to constantly change the surface of it? Or can you do it has much as you like?

[@pokiis3of10]

If you so it an enormous amount of times, it can shrink, ive surfaced mine every week for half a year and no problems

[@machinethesun9243]

I'm still throwing a 2017 ball that I clean and hand sand once a week. I throw it more than any other ball I own, gets used at least 6 games a week. But I don't put it on a spinner. Reacta scuff, and then a 3000 pad.

[@douglasbuck8986]

WHAT WE NEED IS AN OLD FART BOWLING CHANNEL ................MOST INFO JUST DOESN'T APPLY TO ME AT 65 .................

[@mikemayer2459]

Doug, take it from an old fart (71) surface is the key, it really is

[@douglasbuck8986]

@@mikemayer2459 I TOTALLY agree........... use CTD products............ looking forward to the new polish vs using urethane. Currently use Dark Web Hybrid @2000 and a P5000D pad...... Black Widow 2.0 Hybrid 3000 with Turtle 5500 Polish. Been bowling some pretty good sets..... decided to get my legs back in shape before they completely turn to bones....

[@Denali_Rebel]

It absolutely infuriates me that you can buy three balls for league drilled the same with different surfaces but I can’t bring one ball and change the surface during league. Now if they changed the rule to the ball you start the first game with is the only ball you can use all night I would be fine with that rule.

[@cemeterybowling6]

I need 5k on everything. Rev rate too high for surface even tho I throw like 17.5 mph.

[@pokiis3of10]

You ever bowl on sport patterns? House shot too bouncy right of 10

[@latterdei4357]

@@pokiis3of10 yeah, when it’s heavy or long I’m better. My best outing on sport was on Shark 🦈

[@travishanson166]

I just wish houses wouldn't keep adding length to their patterns without ADDING OIL. 27 mils at 39 feet is wetter than 44 feet at 27 mils. Bowled in a house that had a 42 ft 25 mil pattern and they wanted to add length because "balls were getting too strong" too strong for what? The Sahara? Lol I told the owner to just add 5 mils and drop the ration down to 5 to 1. He just looked at me goofy.

[@CKBowling1]

because a lot of owners now aren't "bowlers", or lovers of bowling and the knowledge that goes with it.

[@steveboguslawski114]

A 5 to 1 ratio is now considered a "Challenge" condition and, if recognized, would cause bowlers' averages to be rerated for tournaments. I do know of one house which had to adjust the conditions due to this several years ago when the rule went into effect. They were at about 6 to 1 (so I was told) and had to apply less oil to the outer boards to avoid the rerating issue, so the conditions immediately began hooking more. Adding volume also increases carrydown issues. Most leagues have some bowlers using old equipment, entry-level balls, and even house balls. The reality today is that leagues strictly for better bowlers are rare, bowlers of every skill level are thrown into leagues together. If you put out enough volume to satisfy a high-rev player who wants to use the latest equipment, you end up with tighter backends when bowling one of the teams using weaker equipment or making weaker shots (due to increased carrydown). And, since they are normally throwing 2 shots each frame, shooting at spares and generally spraying their shots around, the scoring conditions get ... variable. This is unavoidable to a large degree, but increasing volume, I believe, worsens an already tricky situation. Bowlers tend to complain when they don't score. That is, when their scores don't meet their expectations. Add in the fact that you have bowlers of various skill levels, rev rates, ball tracks, and so forth. It is impossible to satisfy everyone.

[@Swamprowdy]

@@steveboguslawski114 Well said. BUT it's a house shot so everyone should bowl great. I'm so sick of hearing that cliche. There are many "house shots" and variables that come into play such as oil types, lane surface, topography, humidity, temperature, number of people on pair, and a myriad of equipment that affects scoring. I've bowled in houses where a little change in the oil pattern causes many to score less, and others to start scoring big. You are right, no manager or lane person can make all the people happy.

[@steveboguslawski114]

I'm old enough to remember when the rule was flat oil, gutter to gutter, and the attempts at enforcing that rule. That was before there was a device to measure the oil on the lane, and every inspection was of the visual/tactile variety. Whether or not a lane was "legal' was subject to interpretation, and the approval of an honor score hinged on the opinion of whoever filled out the inspection report. There were famous scores which were not approved, such as Ray Orf's 890 and Glenn Allison's 900 series. Enough about that. The accepted oil patterns today put a lot more oil in the middle of the lane, which makes the lanes higher scoring for those who are capable of using the pattern. And the parts of that which matter are reading the condition, playing the correct part of the lane, choosing the right equipment, executing your delivery well, noticing when the lane condition begins to change and making appropriate adjustments. Some bowlers execute shots better than others, some read lanes better (perhaps this means they read ball reaction better), some select equipment better, some make better decisions (regarding line, equipment, and adjustments) more often. For the advanced bowler, I think making good decisions often becomes most important because they already have the other building blocks available.

[@godwinsboom]

Skip sanding huh🤔 At first I thinking you went from 500 to 1500 to 1000 too 3000😂 That'd be bounce sanding lol