Matt versus WPEngine! WordCamp US 2024 Aftermath!

[@websquadron]

This could change everything. I mean... evreeting! Automattic demands WP Engine stop, remove content, & pay comp ($32m) for unauthorised trademark use of #WordPress & #WooCommerce My view: - Auto allowed trademark use. - This shift could force company rebranding. - Will we need secure licenses agreements? #Tragic automattic.com/2024/09/25/open-source-trademarks-wp-engine/

[@visualmodo]

Really good content!!!!

[@fabrizio.dipietro]

No money no open source, this is the reality.

[@websquadron]

Yup.

[@WPMinute]

Just FYI: WP Engine did NOT acquire Beaver Builder (still independent) or Yoast (Acquired by Newfold Digital)

[@websquadron]

Yup, my bad. Got that wrong. :( :( :( :(

[@websquadron]

I have seen discussions that support MM's view - however they all follow the 'because you use it' - then 'you need to contribute'. I don't fully agree. Even if WPE don't provide the same amount of hours back - you could argue that being part of WordPress with products, advertising, sponsorship, blogs, videos, etc, etc, etc, that they are contributing. I was disappointed by the cancer analogy. Using that term for this was low. And one of Matt's tweets about starting a rival company called WordPressEngine because he doesn't like them using 'WP' again enters the mud-slinging arena. How long until he goes after InstaWP or any other company that has WP in their name? Maybe we should discuss more?

[@junesjournal]

WHEW. Glad to know the BB mention was an error. I had to pause the video to research that upon hearing!!!

[@nickm1049]

It was indeed nasty what Matt did to those WPE employees there, the fact that he does it in this cheerful sheepish way just made it creepy

[@MichaelNiles]

Matt's lost his rocker and is jeopardizing the community. SMS texting extortion?! Tortious interference?! That's straight up crazy.

[@lizajoyjohnson]

Holy cow! I left public education because it’s a s@$& show-what have I gotten myself into!

[@websquadron]

Exactly the reason I let the NHS.

[@BryanPhilips]

WPEngine’s next acquisition….. Automatic 😅

[@CMSAssociation]

You said what I was thinking but decided to hold off. LOL! Seems like a plausible power play happening right now behind the scenes.

[@EmilyRose0]

Not even over Matts dead body.

[@fitnessrefocus]

Fact check: Beaver Builder is independently owned.

[@websquadron]

Very true, My bad :(

[@VijayKumarIM]

Is it the reason they started Custom Fields projects in Native Wordpress?? It's not a good idea to hate someone in this community... Especially on that level. They have to be professional. So now what matt wants to justify his ego? Wants to take WP Engine out of business? That's cruel

[@websquadron]

I wonder about what else has sparked this. And I hope that WPE come out with a clear statement or rebuttal.

[@VijayKumarIM]

​@@websquadron True! Our reactions are only based on what's happened so far in public. But logically I don't see anything that WPE can do to harm WordPress. Is WordPress that weak to afraid of one hosting company??

[@websquadron]

@@VijayKumarIM I... think... that the announcement of other potential products/tools has rattled WP and they wish they had evolved more with greater contributions from others. Thus deflecting their anger.

[@cmorrow132]

I get the feeling there is some personal beef with someone at WPEngjne. WPE is hardly the only fully WP powered hosting provider out there yet he seems to be specifically targeting WPE

[@ahesse]

I understand that a leader shouldn't dump on his community members. So I went to listen to Matt's talk. What do you think about his concern about thE Tragedy of the Commons in Open Source. Let's talk about that? Turns out Matt actually talks with sympathy and gratitude about WP Engine employees. His resentment appears to be directed towards the investors. Sounds like believes that they understand only economic pressure, i.e. users churning to other hosting providers. BTW, WP Engine did not "contribute" to the WP ecosystem with ACF. They bought it two years ago (legitimate), once it became the preferred choice for dynamic post. Yes, you can say the helped the WP ecosystem by rewarding a useful and well-developed plugin. Motivation for others...

[@websquadron]

I can see weak sympathy - or 'I'll say it to calm the storm' approaches - and Matt's sweetener with the employees was that. It's like when someone says "I love how much you've done but your food tastes shit.' For ACF I was referring to them acquiring ACF - apologies if that didn't come out. Until I see 'any business' interests' affect WordPress then they shouldn't be dragged under the bus. There is no contractual obligation. For instance, should every KZbinr or Blogger that makes a living on the back of WordPress contribute back. If you can find someone to do my editing, I may do just that! [PS - don't hold me to that :]. Even if WPE don't provide the same amount of hours back - you could argue that being part of WordPress with products, advertising, sponsorship, blogs, videos, etc, etc, etc, that they are contributing. I was disappointed by the cancer analogy. Using that term for this was low. And one of Matt's tweets about starting a rival company called WordPressEngine because he doesn't like them using 'WP' again enters the mud-slinging arena. How long until he goes after InstaWP or any other company that has WP in their name? PS - I do value your comment and view - and am not affiliated or fully supportive of any company, but I just had a sour taste whilst watching Matt. He just needs chill-it-down.

[@Nunn_the_wiser]

⁠@@websquadronIt's very clear that Matt has an axe to grind with WPE. Do you honestly believe that Matt will come after KZbinrs if he wins his battle against WPE? I don't. I also thought Matt showed some compassion to WPE employees. I think the issue here is recognising the difference in enjoying the benefits of Open Source and actively exploiting it. Silver Lake does have a history of this. Matt could have positioned this is a slightly better way but I think his heart is in the right place to prevent exploitation of Open Source without giving back to the community.

[@areimann]

Yeah, I was there and you can see me and the two other employees I brought to WCUS for the first time. It was disappointing, to say the least. I just posted my comments on KZbin too...I'm just trying to figure out how I feel. I need more context from Matt, a whole lot more context.

[@websquadron]

I have seen discussions that support MM's view - however they all follow the 'because you use it' - then 'you need to contribute'. I don't fully agree. Even if WPE don't provide the same amount of hours back - you could argue that being part of WordPress with products, advertising, sponsorship, blogs, videos, etc, etc, etc, that they are contributing. I was disappointed by the cancer analogy. Using that term for this was low. And one of Matt's tweets about starting a rival company called WordPressEngine because he doesn't like them using 'WP' again enters the mud-slinging arena. How long until he goes after InstaWP or any other company that has WP in their name.

[@lucylink7975]

It's a very odd thing to do at a major conference. I had some experiences with a client's site on WPE which made me wonder what they were up to with their products and acquisitions, so maybe I'm a bit biased, instinctively I'm not a fan. But I suspect there's more to this than any of us know to promote MM to call them out so sharply. Doesn't seem to have been a wise move on his part but you'd think he'd have considered that.

[@websquadron]

I think there’s something else at play here too

[@tobisalami]

Hmmm. The WordPress space didn't have as much drama last year as it does this year. I'm here for all of it, though.

[@vaughanprint]

It is turning out to be like one of the cheesier soap operas.

[@antonichristian5845]

Sounds like he is blaming other companies for thier own failures to me. They are not obligated to contribute to wordpress so his argument doesn't make much sense. Pretty unprofessional and creates a negative vibe for the event in my opinion.

[@escapetothecountrylife-tq3el]

their - spelling

[@johnpixle]

Even if Mullenweg has a point, it was the wrong place and time in my opinion. That was contribution-shaming at an event where we should be uniting and lifting each other up. Also, why did they accept WPEngine's $70K sponsorship that went into WCUS in the first place, if they have such beef with them? I can't imagine how demoralized the WPE team who attended the WordCamp must feel right now. He literally threw them under the bus. Many other companies will now wonder who's next. I am not saying that WPEngine could not do more regarding the contributions, but it is a free market. Let the people decide. Very bad drama, and it will further polarize the community.

[@websquadron]

Agreed. It just adds to tribal mentality that has seeped into WP. Bad CEO-manship here.

[@KingGrizzly]

Yes, culturally, this whole fiasco is unhelpful to Wordpress. One could argue WP Engine, with its managed offering and professional support, does a great deal to keep WP seeming relevant as a platform - despite being monetized.

[@markjszymanski]

Good thoughts here! Definitely want to hear more details, hopefully we get them.

[@CaseFixed]

Not the time and place I feel... Is there a link online of the speech?

[@websquadron]

Yup - see the video description and jump to the 7 hrs and 16 mins

[@onlinemediamasters]

I don't think it was right to single them out, but there needs to be some light shed on hosting companies with poor ethics. Speaking of which, are we ever going to talk about the undercover brand ambassador programs that essentially fraud people by not using disclosures?

[@websquadron]

I agree that misleading consumers through hidden endorsements is unethical. And if someone promotes but never uses such product/tool then that is wrong.

[@onlinemediamasters]

​@@websquadron it's only wrong if you're throwing blind opinions without any research, testing, or other due diligence. Using (let's say 20 major hosting companies... because you need comparisons for benchmarks) just isn't practical. We already have performance/load tests on wphostingbenchmarks. We can dig through tons of reviews to see experiences of more than just 1 person, on 1 node, getting different performance/uptimes, having a totally different experience than the next customer. And what does "using" entail? This would be borderline impossible unless you had a massive team of people that actually knew what they were doing.

[@onlinemediamasters]

​@@websquadron I agree there needs to be more due diligence, but 1 person's experience doesn't have more weight than what you can find online. I doubt this someone is going to test every plan, every node, tell me all the different resource limits, and run better performance/load benchmarks than what's already out there.

[@elcondorito8823]

Hey People ! I agree at first on what you said. However in the Q&A part, the first question answers your question : he tried to settle this privately with the guy first. With no answer, he made it public.

[@websquadron]

But did he? He doesn't elaborate or clarify what was said or not. And we're yet to hear from WPEngine. I've been in many situations when someone will say that and then you find out that there was more said. So far we just have one POV.

[@markstrongvid]

Support your stance 100% Imran. If you hear anything back, should be at the same level as uhm, Jetpack support? A bot in a couple of days?Maybe? 😅

[@michaelfoerster3364]

What do you think about silver lake? Doesnt he has a good point with the tragedy of the commons? Who should improve WP?

[@websquadron]

MM's concern about Silver Lake and WP Engine is about companies benefiting from WordPress without giving back enough to sustain it. His point is valid: if major players profit but don't contribute to the platform’s development, it weakens WordPress in the long term. However, WP Engine does offer value through tools and services. The balance lies in encouraging contributions without alienating companies that still support the ecosystem in other ways. Both the community and businesses should share the responsibility to improve WordPress. But that's where I don't think a hard value should be placed on how much they should contribute let alone comparing 3k+ to 47 hrs per week.

[@AndyKuiper2]

Matt acted in a very childish way / there must be other ways to have handled this issue - who is the real “bully” here?

[@websquadron]

What's playing out now worries me.

[@ScadooshGoat]

Imran is the Keemstar of WP Drama lmaooo

[@geminate]

I totally agree. Matt was totally out of line.

[@CMSAssociation]

Hmm. I had commented on here. Perhaps too controversial? Apologies, Imran.

[@websquadron]

Try again as I haven’t removed any comments

[@CMSAssociation]

@@websquadron Thanks.

[@rararaheem]

Good job😊

[@websquadron]

Thank you so much 😀

[@nancymikyska2832]

It was worse when Matt said that he wants wp engine customers to sign up to other hosting, specifically naming the hosting companies that he owns or partially owns. He should have left it without naming his own hosting companies in his presentation/comments...but naming his hosting companies to get hopefully former wp engine customers is just self-indulgent.

[@websquadron]

Exactly. That is the bit when my stomach turned. The contradictory aspect of 'don't line their pockets' but 'do line ours' was wrong on a zillion levels.

[@dave1790]

Its such a BS gripe from Matt. Thats the contract he signed when he licensed wp under gpl 😜

[@SinanWP]

matt is right on this one

[@CMSAssociation]

How so?

[@WibowoSulistio]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/fmepYYOdgsh-ja8 for Matt's clarifications (Friday, Sept 27)

[@fatjay9402]

Wp drama

[@websquadron]

Damn right!

[@thedigitalhabeeb9541]

King ping😂🙌

[@websquadron]

I know!!! :)

[@QuaverloveStudio]

I thought it was unprofessional of Matt, distasteful, even. Life without ACF... I shudder at the thought!

[@DavidRisley1]

He rips on WPEngine.... then promotes Bluehost. One of the shittiest hosts of all time.

[@CMSAssociation]

He rips on WPEngine for being backed by Silverlake, but neglects to mention automattic's ~30 backers, among them, Blackrock?

[@nickwinn]

Bluehosts is like herpes....

[@EmilyRose0]

They just CANT do something for WIX or similar. Because they are closed source, they even have their stuff locked down on their servers its not even close source you download. So they just cant switch to something like that. And that is Matt entire point. WP is Open Source and the greedy investment firm that controls WP Engine it does not give a flying duck about contributing back. They just use it to make money because its popular. And buying up plugins and making more features paid is NOT contributing back at all. And no I would not be pissed if they would move to some stupid close source product instead.

[@websquadron]

Does WPE using the name and marketing not help to bring people to WordPress thus indirectly contributing potential revenue?

[@EmilyRose0]

@@websquadron No! No idea why you would think that. People seek out WPE because they already know what WP is and they are looking for good host to host what they already know. Nobody switches to WP because they somehow so find out about WPE without knowing what WP is.

[@RR-ok4wz]

@@EmilyRose0LOL. No they don’t.

[@fairiesdreamsfantasy603]

You are right! WP Engine has caused this problem. I always choose to run WordPress on my own server.

[@websquadron]

Ok

[@SuburbanPhilosophy]

I am WPEngine and you are Wordpress. I am coming to YOUR house, I use the whole house and start selling cookies, drinks and food [plugins, hosting]. Every day, I spend 30 min - 1 hour, clean a little bit and leave home. But you have to pay council tax, watter, gas, electricity. You have to make repairs, to paint, replace broken stuff in the house. it seems fair to you?

[@codeagency]

This comparison makes no sense at all. WPE doesn't or didn't go anywhere. They use just offer hosting for an open source product like many others. They are a company that has to make profit. Just like automattic Selling hosting and woocommerce plugins is also a company making money. WPE is contributing indirect by FREE plugins like acf and many others. They host many videos around WordPress and thus definitely contributing back to the entire WordPress ecosystem and community. It's a personal attack from Matt who is playing low-ball against a company that does the same as Matt's company automattic. It's not the first time that Matt ended up in problems. There are many others that say he is toxic in business. I don't know him personally but the fact remains he is causing single handedly reputation damage to the community by this action.

[@websquadron]

If I let you in to do that then yes it is fair. But I wouldn’t have an open door policy for you to come to my house. That’s like saying every user of WP needs to contribute to core because they all enter WP’s home. By us entering WP’s home we keep it alive by being part of it.

[@websquadron]

@codeagency well said

[@SuburbanPhilosophy]

@@codeagency FREE plugins are LIMITED. is like drug dealers give for free a Sample. And after this they start selling you. No, WpEngine do not contribute to Wordpress company. Is using Wordpress to sell their own products. if they arre so generous why they did not made their own FREE CMS?

[@SuburbanPhilosophy]

@@websquadron so, You say Wordpress can close the door for WpEngine!

[@JeanBaptisteChabi]

I don't know but, calling a hosting company WP Engine, and be calling yourself a best WordPress hosting, while you don't even have an association with the open source software you are hosting.

[@websquadron]

What about every other company that uses WP or WordPress in the world?

[@JeanBaptisteChabi]

@@websquadron it's a different situation, I just visited wp Engine after I read an article about it few minutes before watching your video, it's impossible not to think that The company is not working hand to hand with WordPress developers, and the name is like it's make because and only for WordPress. I mean, if not for the article, I never would have thought that wp Engine doesn't mean a hosting made by WordPress owners for WordPress users.