Matthieu Pageau: Symbolism & Scripture | a rare conversation

Matthieu shares new insights from his upcoming books and 'The Language of Creation' (2018). In this rare conversation, Matthieu discuss deep symbolism in Scripture and opens up about his life, living off-grid in a yurt in Northern Canada in winter.
- Matthieu's book: 'The Language of Creation' - www.amazon.com/Language-Creat...
- Derek's commentary on 'The Language of Creation' - • Matthieu Pageau & 'The...
- Podcast w/ Matthieu's brother Jonathan Pageau on Symbolism & Sexuality - • Symbolism & Sexuality ...
- Podcast w/ Gareth w/ Matthieu's comment on initiation - • Symbolic Directions wi...
- Cormac Jones 'Cosmic Chiasmus' article - thesymbolicworld.com/articles...
- My notes from this interview with timestamps in my public journal - www.derekjfiedler.substack.com
CHAPTERS
00:00:00 Welcoming Matthieu Pageau
00:04:00 Living in a Yurt
00:18:00 Forgotten ways of thinking & seeing
00:24:43 Disjointed Levels of Reality
00:42:40 Symbolism of Light & Water
00:56:27 The Surprising Role of women in ancient world
01:13:00 Samson / King David
01:32:20 What's coming up
#symbolism #conversation #matthieupageau
MY WRITING
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- Symbolic World Blog: thesymbolicworld.com/author/d...
SAY HI
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WHO I AM
My name is Derek J Fiedler. I live in rural Northern California. I'm a husband, father, creative, and conversationalist, who likes to take a deeper look into movies, culture, religion, and various levels of reality. I publish stories, articles, concept albums, podcasts, and video essays. Along the way, I also share parts of my learning journey through conversation, film analysis, book review, and symbolic interpretation. I write articles for the Symbolic World Blog (thesymbolicworld.com/author/d..., as well as newsletters and short articles about Life & Creativity at derekjfiedler.substack.com.

[@account2871]

Being a musician, Matthieu's "8 is like 1" is literally a true statement in musical language. The 8th note in a scale is the higher version of the 1st.

[@DerekJFiedler]

"a higher version of the 1st" I like that. Drew, the ethnomusicologist, gave a similar insight in our conversation - kzbin.info/www/bejne/qX-4lal-eMqKpac

[@tensevo]

octave

[@francois_leveille]

So true! Thanks for connecting the dot for me!

[@DerekJFiedler]

@@billstevens1010 you nailed it. Dominant 7th is quite unlike the other notes that crowns the scale.

[@johnmkmu]

Isn’t it also magical (providential) that there ARE 7 tones in the scale?? I’ve spent most of my life trying to understand how/when/where/why that truth exists.

[@jrgames29]

"Symbolism hides in plain sight" - love that. Reminds me of a great line in Chesterton's Orthodoxy: “Fairy tales say that apples were golden only to refresh the forgotten moment when we found that they were green. They make rivers run with wine only to make us remember, for one wild moment, that they run with water.”

[@so_she_said]

I love Chesterton, wonderful quote.

[@DerekJFiedler]

Good bless Chesterton. Thanks for the quote. I'm glad you dropped by.

[@TwinCitiesOxygen]

What’s this mean

[@panokostouros7609]

Matthieu would make an amazing monk

[@suppression2142]

He basically seems to be one lmao

[@akernelfromthecatacombs7169]

You are the best interviewer Derek. Really impressed man. This interview is the most insightful conversation I’ve seen of Matthieu before

[@DerekJFiedler]

Wow, thank you for your complement. That means a lot, especially considering the company of people who have interviewed Matthieu.

[@JakeEatsPizzaRolls]

Just wanting to second this. It seems you really got him into his element and met his perspective so he could just talk from there instead of just trying to explain it. And it led to us getting some little Easter eggs to chew on

[@suppression2142]

I'd love to see you talk about what he talks about here! In regards to the Samson and david and the moon cycles water and the sun and fire and all of these things he mentioned and how they all connect as well.

[@DerekJFiedler]

@@suppression2142 Funny, I just posted a clip from this very section ;) kzbin.info/www/bejne/qZmoeKasm9xjb80 It has me pondering more deeply as well. If I come up with insights that might be helpful, I will share them with you.

[@suppression2142]

@@DerekJFiedler I look forward to it :)

[@SenorDonut]

by far one of the greatest, if not the greatest conversation I've ever heard on KZbin. life-changing.

[@DerekJFiedler]

I'm honored it made such an impact in your life. What about the conversation did you find to be so life changing? Was there a certain section?

[@joolz5747]

Dear Matthew. I never listened to you. I always listen to your brother. I just look when I see you I find this was wonderful you and he are very similar in the way your mind and heart think. You must have wonderful parents. I love listening to you. We need more people like you brothers. Thank you for sharing. Love you.

[@ruslpit2615]

This conversation is so important to me that I'm only listening to it in like 15 minutes chunks. I'm just completely blown away by all this

[@KizaWittaker]

Matthieu has changed my life. I really wish he would be more public, but I understand why he doesn’t.

[@DerekJFiedler]

Thank you for sharing. You never know what a new spring has in store.

[@mondopinion3777]

I fear for Jonathan in his increasingly busy public life. At times he looks somewhat lost and unsure of himself. Matthieu's face is full of peace and light.

[@joolz5747]

Came back to make one more comment. I really like the Paegeau brothers.

[@joolz5747]

Oops I wanted to also say Derek you’re really very nice to listen to as well. I decided to subscribe and see what you got going. Thank you for the interview

[@DerekJFiedler]

@@joolz5747 I'm glad you enjoyed the interview and subscribed. It's a pleasure to have you join us on the adventure. As it turns out, my most recent conversation was with Jonathan Pageau.

[@gregorymoats4007]

It was so wonderful to witness the mutual delight during last night’s discussion. Especially Matthieu as he “gave up” bits of recent insights. That is a testament of his trust and honor of you Derek. What a marvel it is to gain access to such “wilderness” thinkers as these little gems get worked out. Both of you are exemplars of what our hearts and souls our nourished by; authentic & genuine searching, and sharing….Bless you both in all your days to come

[@DerekJFiedler]

Thank you for your encouragement. "Wilderness" thinker. I like that.

[@zackhocker4625]

there is some serious gold in this conversation. sometimes i don’t realize how much God has used Matthieu to reveal reality to me in a way that has brought the magic and wonder of life into everything i experience. i can’t wait to thank this guy whether in this life or the next

[@DerekJFiedler]

Well said. You speak for many.

[@juicerino]

really gives a new meaning to 'love your enemy'

[@DerekJFiedler]

It really does. King "Master of the cycles" David sets the pattern.

[@suppression2142]

@@DerekJFiedler explains the meaning of crowns 👑

[@HelloPrkr]

@@suppression2142- could you help elaborate here on the crown?

[@rainking50]

Could you say more? Thank you! ​@@suppression2142

[@ButterBobBriggs]

The section on David and Samson was pure fire, even if I'm sure I don't fully understand the symbolism. Thank you for this excellent interview!

[@DerekJFiedler]

You're welcome. I'm glad you found it helpful. I found that section most thought provoking as well. Has me digging deeper.

[@fishosoficaldebaitsphiloso7760]

I very much aspire to way of thinking after spending too much time studying existentialism. For the past few months I’ve felt more and more outside of human space and time- which seems to me how Pageau lives.

[@eleanorpoirier2161]

What a great conversation. Electrifying insights! Thank you both!

[@DerekJFiedler]

Glad you liked it!

[@06rtm]

Gardening really reveals the patterns of reality. I often find myself using gardening analogies. Parable of the sower is obviously the best example of that

[@DerekJFiedler]

absolutely.

[@mondopinion3777]

There must be a certain ruthlessness in gardening -- thinning seedlings, pruning, pulling out the fine young weeds . . It helps me understand some of the hard words in the Bible.

[@06rtm]

@@mondopinion3777 Agreed. The right hand has its place.

[@HelloPrkr]

I often let mine go in cycles, of “chaos” for renewal, and “order” for fruiting. I’m just now realizing this when I went to reply. 😅 .

[@JacKie-xi2cf]

Matthieu, it is also well known, w/people that live w/epilepsy, that more seizures occur when there’s a full moon. Thanks for all your insight!

[@DerekJFiedler]

Interesting. Thank you for sharing.

[@JakeEatsPizzaRolls]

Absolutely best Matthieu conversation I've heard so far. What a cool and interesting dude like damn

[@DerekJFiedler]

Glad you liked it. Thank you for the compliment. Means a lot considering his previous interviews.

[@SeekerAppleSwordSerpent]

Can’t wait for his next book!

[@bozidarsadak]

Matthieu, please, please talk more about this ancient cosmology and symbolism stuff, its pure gold. You cannot find this anywhere else. I would give you all my money if you spoke more 😅 That is how important and valuable this is, the knowledge that you posses.

[@lGalaxisl]

This is so much better than the JBP interview

[@DerekJFiedler]

Wow, I'm honored you'd say that.

[@dianebachand6139]

I agree. He was less interrupted. He had more time to explain what he was talking about.

[@olgakarpushina492]

We need more Pageau!

[@bozidarsadak]

Man, Matthieu feels like a brother. :)

[@KizaWittaker]

Coming back for another round. I am a granite stone worker. Everything I do is manual and physical. I listen to podcasts like these and audiobooks while I work, and I get some of my best insights at work. I like to think of it like, my unconscious if fully occupied by the physical task at hand, so my conscious is fully attended towards the information I am receiving.

[@DerekJFiedler]

That's beautiful. Thanks for sharing. Glad you came for another listen.

[@a2wingedeagle]

I like to watch videos like these while playing video games for a similar reason lol

[@HelloPrkr]

I listen to them as well. I’m an island of thought with my immediate surroundings, and view these conversations as we would be gathered around the fire at night, counseling with our cadre. . Be well brothers on the path. I will see you around the campfire 🙏

[@j.p.marceau5146]

Very interesting comments about philosophy. It's what still sticks most in my mind several days after watching this video. Thanks Derek

[@DerekJFiedler]

I thought of you during that section. It complements your symbolism of work series and the levels of reality. We miss it focusing to low with technical knowledge, and to high with abstractions. All the while, the substance is the story, of people working and doing things.

[@ethanb2554]

32:12 (the omniscience of God) This makes me so happy to hear. Whenever I hear people talk about God being all knowing, it radically demystifies the stories. Everything becomes arbitrary because everything is predetermined. When that happens, it invokes an experience of radical disconnection and alienation. It makes me really happy to hear that this isn't a problem unique to me! This was great, thaks Derek.

[@DerekJFiedler]

Well put. Thank you, sir.

[@ethanb2554]

@Phlebas 😁

[@thesecondlawandthetowerhou6026]

I have heard Dr McGilchrist talking about these theological concepts and being dubious about what they convey. I am not sure if he actually articulates the underlying concern as well as you and Matthie; however, the common focus is very interesting,. A conversation between Matthieu and Dr McGilchrist would be fascinsting.

[@ivanengel8887]

Excellent!

[@andrewnelson3714]

Good to see Matthieu making online appearances again. I fell off the Pageau train hard when I saw that Jonathan was realeasing NFTs. Mattieu's book "The language of creation" has been pivotal in my understanding of symbolism and story-telling. I hope he releases publications more often in the future.

[@Pontus_Olsson]

What do you mean fell off?

[@jmholthuysen]

Thanks for making this. Great insights!

[@bobdmb]

great talk, thanks so much both of you!

[@DerekJFiedler]

You are most welcome. Glad you joined the discussion.

[@bobdmb]

hyped!

[@clebs1261]

Matthieu was on fire!!

[@stefanlouw6395]

I'm only 7 minutes in and Matthieu is already blowing my mind

[@BM-wo6wf]

I really enjoy listening to Matthieu

[@candaniel]

I really appreciate Matthieu's perspective

[@suppression2142]

I'm always amazed by matthieu it's just mind blowing.

[@leedufour]

Thanks Mattieu and Derek!

[@DerekJFiedler]

It is a pleasure to share with you. Glad you appreciate it.

[@so_she_said]

So thankful for this!!! Thank you Matthieu! Thank you Derek!

[@DerekJFiedler]

Thank you!

[@jonoj7666]

Thank You, this is excellent 👌

[@DerekJFiedler]

You got it!

[@thesampo]

Amazing

[@panokostouros7609]

Congratulations on the occasion 🙏🙏

[@DerekJFiedler]

Love you Pano. Will you be joining the live chat?

[@panokostouros7609]

@@DerekJFiedler I'll do my best to make it

[@nathankurtz5960]

God bless you guys. This was amazing

[@DerekJFiedler]

Thank you!

[@profeh3346]

Awesome discussion! Can’t wait for the new book!

[@panokostouros7609]

Awesome talk!

[@DerekJFiedler]

I'm so glad you joined in the live chat. Your comments and critique are a helpful addition to the conversation.

[@panokostouros7609]

@@DerekJFiedler You're a wonderful interviewer

[@DerekJFiedler]

@@panokostouros7609 I appreciate that. Means a lot my friend.

[@josephtravers777]

Thank you for uploading this interview. It is rare to gain access to the contemplative but it has profound influence on the world today. We are too distracted quite often to pay attention to reality. This distraction is quite destructive.

[@DerekJFiedler]

You're welcome. And thank you for the insightful comment.

[@thesecondlawandthetowerhou6026]

What a wonderful discussion! I think a conversation between Matthieu and Dr Iain McGilchrist would be fascinating, as Dr McGilchrist lives surrounded by nature on the Isle of Skye and he speaks often of our loss of experience in the natural world. The Mourning Talk did an interview with Dr McGilchrist on Longing which was remarkably insightful and has the same feel/texture as this one.

[@DerekJFiedler]

Thanks for the recommendation. Would you mind sharing a link?

[@thesecondlawandthetowerhou6026]

m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/mYDbcoSKf6qil9k This video is key. Longing, desire set up everything.

[@HelloPrkr]

I just mentioned Dr. McGilchrist in a comment above, re: left brain dominance in recent times and a need for right brain wholistic balance. Being Nature is to understand the principles and cycles of life, and surrounded by it imho can only help with better understanding and communicating on these topics. . I’d love to see that link as well. And while we’re at it, let’s get MP and Dr.McG connected for a conversation of the ages! 🙏

[@KH-se8pq]

Always so wonderful to hear from Matthieu! I’m really enjoying this conversation, especially all the joy in recovering natural relationships, like reflection and water. It’s interesting to hear the perspective on the foreign woman in relation to patriarchal structures, but I’m curious to hear how Matthieu sees it in light of the wording in Genesis 2 before the fall, which I believe originally states that it is the man which leaves his family to be joined with the woman.

[@DerekJFiedler]

I'm glad you are enjoying this convo. Good question too.

[@createnotconsume7721]

I really appreciate your videos. I have been watching Johnathan and Matthieu's conversations for a while now. At some point I came across your videos and think you have good insight and good interview skills. Keep up the good work!

[@DerekJFiedler]

I appreciate your encouragement!

[@ruslpit2615]

I’ve bought several copies of your book and keep giving them away because it’s just so incredible. Your book in another book car super important to me right now. Oh and the Bible to.

[@charles3964]

A rare sighting indeed 🙏

[@DerekJFiedler]

It is also rare in the sense that it is unlike any other conversation I have had before. He not only talks about the role of the foreign in shaping perspective, but he acts it out. He answers my questions in a way intended to perplex and see from an unexpected angle.

[@charles3964]

@@DerekJFiedler That's great to hear, I can't wait to hear the conversation. I'm going to hear your review of his book soon. Thank you for everything you do, God bless you.

[@MafiaBoss19821]

Regarding 54:42 - there's a theory called the aquatic ape theory where it's believed that humans were water creatures for some duration of existence (perhaps that's how we survived the Ice Age). Menstruation is then synchronized with the circalunar (tidal) cycle.

[@muadek2]

Thank you, Derek, for organizing this interview. Great fresh insights!

[@DerekJFiedler]

Thanks! I'm glad you enjoyed it. What was your favorite insight?

[@muadek2]

@@DerekJFiedler Oh, definitely the light=fire=consumption one!

[@DerekJFiedler]

@@muadek2 agreed! Interesting how it they link to the lion.

[@ChristianHada]

This was such a great talk. I cant believe I just found it now.

[@DerekJFiedler]

I'm glad it found you. All things in their time.

[@patrickbarnes9874]

6:25 It's definitely true about the light. I live in a house that was built before electricity was in the area. Later, the main spaces had lights put in but they did not wire up the bedrooms. When in my room I have only a desk lamp so we live largely by natural light in the bedrooms. The lamp is used primarily for evening prayer and I don't turn it on much besides that. I don't wear a watch either so I have become used to telling time by light as he describes, although since my light comes from windows rather than a sunscreen it isn't as accurate as his.

[@DerekJFiedler]

I like your set up. Seems like a good adaptation of modernity only in certain regions of the home. I avoid electric lights in my bedroom. Maybe I'll switch the breaker off and go candlelight only. We'll see how the wife responds to that idea...

[@HelloPrkr]

I have been wondering why the “red light therapy” has been taking off for so many people and about the health benefits. Oddly enough, I do a similar practice of what MP does; asking myself what would this look like long ago? . I realized that the only sources of “red light” would be from the rising sun, the reflection of the moon(I need to confirm this) and the campfire at night. These are the connections modern man has lost, and yet tries to replace with red-lights in his home. . I lived in nyc for a few years in my 20s, and was constantly lost about time and direction. But for years growing up on my ranch, I could travel miles and return before sunset, having always the time and direction above me. The shadows of the city life weren’t for me.

[@thesecondlawandthetowerhou6026]

Fascinating! Nothing like 3 in the morning…….

[@sdrc92126]

I took a college course in symbolism and got nothing out of it. Four hours into TLoC and it all makes perfect sense. Thank you.

[@marybrewer2203]

Hmmm. Just the other day, here in winter 2023, I was having conversation with people concerning cyclical versus linear perspective of living. My personal perspective, from the time I was very young, is based on seeing and living out the cycles, ie : the yearly liturgical calendar, the seasons of the year, etc. The discussion started because of a silly disagreement over when one “should” stop celebrating Christmas. The person who disagreed with me made light of my comment about the Christmas celebration being a feast of several days, ending (if one wishes) in the celebration of Epiphany. She disagreed, and said, “no”. Her view is that Jesus was born on one day, and we celebrate that, and then it’s over. I see some of her reasons, but because of the way I see cyclically, I like my way better. All this to say Thank You for this talk with Matthieu continuing to be available. It sparked a nice little fire in my heart.

[@DerekJFiedler]

Thank you for your thoughtful comment. A Merry Christmas season to you.

[@cawile]

I’m only 20 minutes in and I am so enthralled with both these men and this conversation. Matthieu, would you be my teacher? Seriously. I know what I should be doing, or how I should be living, but let’s just say it would completely blow up my life if I acted on it. But that’s what we’re being called to, right? I’m so lost, brother, but I sense I need to take action soon lest it be too late.

[@HelloPrkr]

Better yourself until the time is right. Ruminate on what you know and have been shown.

[@DerekJFiedler]

​I published my notes from this interview with timestamps on my online journal - derekjfiedler.substack.com/ I included some of the best quotes from the live chat! Thanks to all who could be apart of the live primiere. It was a special event for a special conversation. Help spread the word by liking the video and subscribing to the channel.

[@ButterBobBriggs]

Both my phone and my computer won't show your substack because it says the site is not secure. Just thought you'd like to know. Again, great video.

[@DerekJFiedler]

@@ButterBobBriggs that is odd indeed. Sorry about that. It appears that the hyperlink was off. If it isn't too much trouble, try derekjfiedler.substack.com/ If it works, could you let me know?

[@ButterBobBriggs]

@@DerekJFiedler Yes, that link works. Thank you very much.

[@DerekJFiedler]

@@ButterBobBriggs oh good 👍

[@larrycheek3588]

@@DerekJFiedler Beautiful.. Dauntless

[@BLAISEDAHL96]

Re-listening (again) to this to unpack everything, haha!

[@DerekJFiedler]

One layer at a time

[@jfunk6932]

Regarding the water that reflects the light, it brings to mind where in John 19:34 one of the soldiers pierced Jesus’ side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and WATER. I would love to hear Matthieu's take on the symbolism of the WATER in this situation. It seems like it might be significant.

[@almondtree]

I need to hear more about this David mystery.

[@JOtt-vi5qc]

Looks like it’ll be awesome

[@DerekJFiedler]

Thanks Jon. Hope to see you tomorrow in the chat.

[@bobdmb]

@@DerekJFiedler would be great to join you in the chat, but from Europe this time ain't ideal :)

[@lisaonthemargins]

Yall should talk again. Wonderful interview!

[@DerekJFiedler]

Thank you, Lisa! What questions remained unanswered for you? What should we cover next?

[@cawile]

23:24 reminds me of how children observe the world and their natural surrounding. I love hearing my 3 and 6 you discuss with each other the stars in the sky, the different shadows you can make on the ground day or night, why a tree looks a certain way, etc. it’s beautiful and should be encouraged. My 6o is starting to experience a fracture in her perception of the world. She understands and senses the patterns that underlie us, the hierarchy we exist within, but our home life and adherence to the technical prescriptions for daily life. My coparent would never endorse raising them in a primitive way, but I’m starting to believe it’s absolutely necessary for their survival but for their salvation. We have to make the leap for adventure, it doesn’t have to be forever but maybe long enough to see reality as our ancestors did.

[@DerekJFiedler]

Thank you for sharing your story. My kids are 2 and 5. We are raising free range children as well. As much as possible, connect kids to the earth and the wild.

[@HelloPrkr]

I too have found myself at the last stop on this train. . I grew up on a ranch in south Texas, and much like every hero journey, I fled from it in my early teens, only to come full circle again. I’ve realized my life has had such an different perspective because I learned “natural systems” first and struggled with “human systems” since. Nature does not lie, humans and our free has the same ability, but alas. . My wife is rather spiritual, yet clings to materials and modern life. I ask for blessings and patience so I may guide my wife and 2 & 5yo girls toward a Good life. 🙏 . I pray a safe journey for both of you and your families as well. Let our aim be true 🙏

[@ShowMeMoviesInc.]

God is good, David is my dads favorite story and Samson has always been mine.

[@DerekJFiedler]

And here the two intertwine. Thanks for the comment. Glad it made a connection with your father.

[@jrgames29]

Expertly marshalled interview! Totally with Matthew on the dangers of theology becoming too conceptual and 'hellenistic'. Theres definitely a tendency in theology departments towards academic chest beating and lofty parlour discussions about philosophical abstracts. You see this in the Exodus roundtables with JBP, where going down these rabbit holes simply yields very little useful insight. And there's Jonathan P trying so hard to get them to stick to the simple and yet extraordinarily profound patterns IN the text.

[@DerekJFiedler]

Well said.

[@kwlester1]

Derek, you really elicited some great stuff with this interview.

[@DerekJFiedler]

Thank you. I'm glad you found it valuable.

[@kwlester1]

Gotta love when Matthieu looks to the side conspiratorially like he’s about to let you in on a big secret.

[@DerekJFiedler]

@@kwlester1 or, he is scanning for double agents.

[@sdonovansmith]

It strikes me, in your discussion of the symbolism of light and water, that there’s a connection in the moon being connected to water and reflection, with night time being a time for reflection, and what Mathieu said earlier about the insights and the thinking which occur when he wakes up at night.

[@DerekJFiedler]

Nice connection. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

[@KingPhilipF]

Canada has to be the closest to proof cities are not wholesome. Canadians in the cities are strange Canadians in the woods are the happiest people ever

[@vimalpatel4060]

Bravo Derek, you brought him out of the pits of Quebec-va. I shall covet the hours.

[@DerekJFiedler]

Just barely! Right after it talk, he returned to the wilderness and shut down communications for the winter. Will you be able to join the live premiere?

[@vimalpatel4060]

@@DerekJFiedler A spark from the wooded wanderer is enough for the crying hours of pharoah. As, for the premiere, usually, I don't have access to the internet during those hours, so we shall see my friend. Have a blessed day, and peace be with the family.

[@DerekJFiedler]

@@vimalpatel4060 all in good time. Thank you and to yours as well.

[@jonathanetheridge6068]

The yurt life is sounding pretty good

[@verntweld51]

Mercury reflects light in nature, once collected together

[@matveyignatyev]

54:39 I have actually heard anecdotally that this is in-fact the case!! It further adds to the theme of natural cycles in the world!

[@goyensjonathandjalmoztfr33]

Thank you ‼️ps #urbanapologetics

[@olgakarpushina492]

Btw, just learned some folk tradition thatconnects Samson and daughter brides. Turns out, in the Izhora region which is close to St. Petersburg, brides were forced to shave their hair off and could only grow it back after the birth of the first child. The girls' hair was believed to have the protective power of their own kin, and the protective spirits of her blood family could harm the new one.

[@DerekJFiedler]

Fascinating

[@alteredcatscyprus]

I can tell you as a painter that objects reflect light. We paint reflected light to give form.

[@DerekJFiedler]

That's amazing. Thanks for sharing.

[@OrthodoxPlatypus]

Intriguing how at 44:02 the symbolism of light/fire "is an eater" and at 1:17:41, Samson's riddle employs "out of the eater" (Hebrew)

[@UndyingNephalim]

I'm wondering if it's really necessary to create clear bridges between the "Disjointed levels of reality." I can only speak for myself, but I feel a bit comfortable being able to just jump between those different interpretations of reality and switch between them depending on the situation, almost like using different tools for different jobs. I have no mental hangups on flipping back and forth between a geocentric and heliocentric model of reality, for instance, depending on what I need to use it for.

[@DerekJFiedler]

The tool box analogy helps. I think of it like Batman's utility belt. He always had just the right apparatus for the moment. The danger is when people call in one level, stake a flag and proclaim it the ultimate worldview. Ex Brett W. with the materialistic rationalism or a theologist with abstract philosophy. Have to be able to recognize the layers and levels.

[@atmelese3444]

It is surprising to me that the perception of woman as stranger who leaves her family to join another is new to many. This is true today in many parts of the world especially, in rural communities. Women even may not inherit land from her family because of this...

[@DerekJFiedler]

Good point

[@mondopinion3777]

Bridging those gaps between levels -- is it fractal? When I first saw the beautiful emergent Mandelbrot patterns my intellect was-- for the first time -- at home in the Universe.

[@mtarlo215]

My oldest son is autistic. When he was a little young he would stim much more than he does now. He’ll run, jump, hum, and do all types of things when he gets excited. Im not very detail oriented but I did notice when it was really bad on a particular night that the moon was full. It was something I thought was funny. But then I noticed that each time he lapsed into a uncontrollable stim the moon was always full. So I agree it’s more than just light

[@DerekJFiedler]

Thank you for sharing your story.

[@wehsee912]

The tugboat and construction life, the contemplative life!

[@DerekJFiedler]

Regarding the knowledge of the tree of Good and Evil, refer to chapter 55 in Pagueu's book Language of Creation (pg 211). You might find it helpful.

[@almondtree]

The moon ❤ 🌝

[@2x_espresso]

The part about reconnecting the disconnected parts of Reality sounds very much like a natural focus in the coming decades; finding back to the unified cosmology of the Medieval Times, reparing what went too far with left-brained modernity in the last 4-500 years. And perhaps using right-brained concepts like "unifying" rather than "connecting", as part of the rebalancing. It might be an instrumental part of a bigger Rebirth and Renaissance as well.

[@HelloPrkr]

Dr Iian Mcghilchrists work on the L/R, specifically his newest mammoth “the matter with things” and MPs work are surely needing to be “integrated” across our current narrative of Mother Culture. . I love your wording in your reply, and shows you’ve a wonderful appreciation for wholistic being. . Looking forward to bumping into you on the path 🙏

[@enkor349]

That will take a while to ponder on.Excellent. What is the Garret conversation you referred to?

[@DerekJFiedler]

I'm pondering along with you. Podcast w/ Gareth w/ Matthieu's comment on initiation - kzbin.info/www/bejne/sIq1gJiPbsmCgbc

[@swerremdjee2769]

Plants reflect light everything with a white or light colour does, many animals do...

[@AprendeMovimiento]

The theological virtue of Faith organizes reality better for you, by having trust in God on the revelation of the Most Holy Trinity for example you can calmly contemplate that everything that exists participates in a union without confusion and distinction without separation (no contradiction) and this can help you explain absolutely anything since anything that "is" participates in the "isness" of God (Holy Trinity/union without confusion distinction without separation), so everything created reflects that uncreated reality, a chair is a union of woods without confusion and a distinction of woods without separation, and the way in which the union and the distinction occurs makes those pieces of wood a chair instead of a table, if you have a confusion of pieces of woods then you don't have a chair and if you have separation of woods then there is desintegration only so no chair again. This principle allows you to see how apparent contradictions at the level of the parts can be always resolved by the principle that organizes the whole, and the old testament books are mostly focusing always on the different parts of the whole, or on explaining the parts of the whole but the new testament reveals the whole and Jesus Christ becomes the connector, we are not Christ, but we have the revelation by which we can make the connections. So any paradox, any contradiction, any dualism or binarism gets resolved by a Trinity, because reality is not fundamentaly a duality, heaven and earth are joined in different manners and a different levels which means that there is a third aspect making the connection.

[@DerekJFiedler]

Thank you kindly for this description. I find myself reading again and again and resonating with different parts.

[@AprendeMovimiento]

@@DerekJFiedler For sure man, what I am trying to point out is that in order to create connections between the now separated ontological levels we must have the Most Holy Trinity as our lens, if we want to see how the scientific connects to the philosophy and the theology we need to have the proper lens first, and what better lens that the principle by which everything is created and the principle in which everything created participates, what is awesome about having this "trinitarian mind" is that you stop the dichotomies because you don't think in terms of heaven and earth, or high and low only, you add the "through" aspect. I would love to talk to you about this more in depth, maybe have a zoom chat some time because I would love to explain certain insights and understandings I have about how the symbolic language can be used to create a map that can track the ontological levels erasing the so called gaps, plus understanding why faith (trust) should be the guiding light in the process.

[@DerekJFiedler]

I'd love to explore this "trinitarian mind". I'm working out several ideas in this space. Sounds like a conversation using this lens would help frame and focus. If you would, send me an email and let's set up a time to talk.

[@matthewkay1327]

1:25 live by the sword, die by the sword

[@michaelparsons3007]

Umm…yeah…I’m going to need you to post this right. now.

[@TheTimecake]

What is it that you think is important from the Chiasmus article that you mention near the end of the video? I also took a look at it when it first came out but I didn't see it's significance in the same way that I saw The Language of Creation as immediately significant. Can you help me see what deeper patterns it's pointing to, beyond something like inversion through a central point? Also, it looks like the original article isn't up on the Symbolic World blog. Do you have a backup copy by chance?

[@DerekJFiedler]

Alastair Roberts helped me read the Bible musically (see my clip and conversation with Roberts). As a musician, I play with patterns and interact in the unseen realm of reality. I've exercised these musical muscles all my life. Matthieu's LoC helped me see the symbolic patterns. Cormac helped me see the Bible as Poetry in a whole new way. Plus, in my research of the Arrival film, I had been spending lots of time thinking about nonlinear time and palindromes, so seeing the parables of Christ as being "parabolic" in structure blew my mind. All of this I had been intuiting and playing with. These gentlemen helped shine the light to reveal major connections in the layers of understanding and participating. At any point I can see the music, the symbolism, the poetry in the Biblical stories. It's awesome.

[@naikhanomtom7552]

This guy is ridiculously intelligent.

[@alphabeta8284]

Quirky

[@user-vf7gp1hr9c]

If David is to see himself in Bathsheba in the water, he would realize he is locked in sensuality and refusing to be a king since it was the time that kings to off to war. He was meant to remain in the cycle or pattern of reality, but instead chose to leave reality and live in fantasy. I struggle with this often as it is difficult for me to leave a time of relaxation or vacation and return to the pattern of life so I end up continuing the vacation while back in reality until it becomes too much sensuality and I have to force myself back. This can be seen in the cycle of fasting as it helps to keep one from spiralling out of control. He was meant to see himself, maybe even the beauty of being king that she could also represent and realize he should embrace that (i.e. to go war), but instead he embraced the reflection/image of that. Similar to people desiring position/power without actually fulfilling the duties/responsibilities involved. It is also an image of turning from God by embracing the carnal rather than the spiritual. He saw himself and instead of choosing God (duties of being king), he chose himself (pleasure). There must be more to consider in what it means to have seen himself reflected in her nakedness in the water 🤷

[@Brad-RB]

Many of these insights are common sense wisdom to people that live close to nature. Cities and suburbs are virtual realities.

[@DerekJFiedler]

Matthieu: humans use a lot of water City folk: wow, so insightful? Country folk: mhm, so?

[@elagerda]

Immanuel Kant wrote about the impact the Moon had on humans. His idea was that the Moon as a sizy celestial body was heavy enough to impact with its gravitation the motion of the fluids on Earth - be that the ebbs and flows of the oceans or menstruation cycles in women's bodies.

[@DerekJFiedler]

Interesting. Thanks for sharing.

[@KellyMadden-ur6wf]

I'm on my fourth reading of "Language of Creation" and owe Matthieu a great deal. But I do have an important reproach: What HE owes to "the tradition." He gives no references AT ALL to many sources from which he seems to have drawn insight. It's an innocent mistake, I'm sure. But it is also a short-coming. UNLESS the interpretation is common knowledge across the discipline-and in most cases it's not-it's important to give credit where due. He's self-publishing and he's not an academic, so... understandable. But it is important to acknowledge our debt to our spiritual and intellectual Fathers and Mothers, and not to imply that insights originated with us when they did not. Plus, it helps the rest of us grow if we can consult the same sources; that too is part of what it means to be in "a tradition." Given the success and importance of his book, it now becomes necessary to set this right in future editions/revisions.

[@DerekJFiedler]

Healthy feedback. Thank you.

[@mondopinion3777]

34:00 God Who is omniscient/God Who acts then repents . . I like to think if it as God Who is telling Himself a story. Entering into Time not just staying in the "eternal." How else could He be in relationship with us? Which is to say, how else could He LOVE us ?

[@chrisc7265]

the Cosmic Chiasmus article is down, though I was able to find it with wayback machine

[@DerekJFiedler]

Thank you. Cormac have an update with access to the article. cormacjones.substack.com/p/temporary-links-for-my-symbolic-world?r=d4e9f&

[@KizaWittaker]

I think I discovered the secret of when to enter into the cycle and when to get out. I found it in the story of Moses. The only time Moses really “does anything”, or stands up to evil, is when it doesn’t benefit him. The Egyptian and the Israelite, the Shepherds and the Well, the Israelites and Pharaoh. Its about entering when it’s a sacrifice, and when you can’t gain anything from the death of your enemies. So David killing Saul would gain him kingship. Likewise David kills Goliath, but when he is king he doesn’t kill his enemies, because as king he can now benefit from their deaths.

[@DerekJFiedler]

Now that is interesting

[@KizaWittaker]

@@DerekJFiedler Cause think of when Matthieu even says that to want to reward yourself is a start of this confusion or cycle. It makes a little more sense now.

[@DerekJFiedler]

@@KizaWittaker good point. It is perpetuated by pride.

[@suppression2142]

Can you please make a video on this? This is extremely interesting.

[@HelloPrkr]

And this seems to me the guiding principle of the spirit of a father: The cycle starts at childbirth, renewal, but then so does the journey of sacrificing oneself for your child. The cycles ends with the final sacrifice, sending them out into the world. To do it as a sin is to rush them out because “you want your life back” and they are not prepared. But to do it properly is to build a relationship with someone so great, that you must send them out leaving you without them. … this may not be what you were thinking, but I noticed you’re a father and so is OP, and myself. . Using frameworks we’re familiar with may help us all understand better. . I’d love to hear more about your understanding of sacrifice w/ Moses and the cycles. . Much love 🙏

[@matthewkay1327]

52:34 looking at bathsheba reminds me of fallen angels looking down.

[@twoheadedboy1945]

Is there a link to the Cosmic Chiasmus article ?

[@DerekJFiedler]

Thank you. Cormac have an update with access to the article. cormacjones.substack.com/p/temporary-links-for-my-symbolic-world?r=d4e9f&