Max Weber and the Protestant Ethic

From the BBC Radio 4 series about life's big questions - www.bbc.co.uk/historyofideas
How does religion fit with the world of business? Perhaps more closely than you think. The sociologist and economist Max Weber argued that after the Reformation one form of Christian Protestantism, Calvinism, encouraged a different attitude to work, with far-reaching effects.
Narrated by Stephen Fry. Scripted by Nigel Warburton.
This project is from the BBC in partnership with The Open University, the animations were created by Cognitive.

[@dularar8934]

Anybody from sociology ...

[@jazminegranados5524]

Haha I have to do a 1,000 word essay on this video 🥲

[@dularar8934]

@@jazminegranados5524 F, I had the same stuff

[@dysmissme7343]

Sup- I have a test tomorrow

[@smritiadhikari7784]

🙋‍♀️

[@avery7165]

meeee

[@dkennell998]

The BBC didn't look close enough at the thumbnail before they put this clip up lol. Fantastic vid though, thanks!

[@isweartofuckinggod]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who saw that lmao

[@EbonySaints]

Ohh... I see it now. It might just be a cheeky bit of that Olde Bri'ish humour going on there.

[@BallyBoy95]

Not even a sociologist, just a curious med student. And Max Weber sounded like a hell of a perceptive individual.

[@denizdurdag]

Ten seconds in and Tony Sirico shows up. Gold.

[@davidortega3393]

I think that’s James Gandolfini next to him

[@nts4906]

The key difference being an impetus to contribute to society, NOT accumulate wealth for one's own sake. It isn't the wealthiest who get to heaven, (those who hoard the most money in savings), but those who contribute to the welfare of the society as a whole. The underlying motivation behind Weber's understanding of capitalism was that it did not flourish through rational egoism, but instead through social beneficence and the willingness to work for others (not just oneself).

[@Hollow_Theorist]

Logic Seeker This is a bet we as Christ -ones are taking, a virtuous man nonetheless would work diligently 6 days a week excluding holidays either way, what is the fuss about? A life of avoiding sin and striving for virtue in God's eyes?

[@douglasphillips5870]

It wasn't so much about contributing to the community, but wealth was a sign of gods favor, so by working hard and making money they believed they were demonstrating that God favored them.

[@selfishcapitalist3523]

People who hoard money rarely become rich. In order to become wealthy, you must almost always live below your means and invest the remainder into businesses which serve masses of people. Eg. Amazon, Oreo, Walmart.

[@ryke_masters]

I'm years late on this, but this really is not Weber's view on capitalism or even how it arose. Weber was no anti-capitalist but he didn't have rose-tinted glasses on about capitalism, either (and in fact the general pessimism of his worldview is part of the reason he was no anti-capitalism... and also part of the reason people of all political stripes tend to find him so insightful). Certainly it is part of it that the Calvinists he was talking about weren't accumulating wealth; that would not have been a sign of predestination! But that's exactly the point: it was rational (if one subscribes to a sufficiently wide definition of rationality which accommodates different worldviews and "reasons" of doing things; which Weber did and sociologists typically do) and if not egoistic, at least useful, for Calvinists to work hard, live frugally, and invest their earnings in their business and their community: it reassured them (as well as fellow believers) that they at least showed signs of being part of a minority of chosen ones who would reach eternal salvation. That doesn't mean they were insincere about it, but it was worth it regardless of whether they were or wanted to be "socially beneficient". Weber didn't wholly share Marx's analysis of capitalism, but he had read Marx and generally subscribed to a view of society where most things involve some degree of coercion (hence his definition of legitimacy, which is "giving an order and having some degree of expectation that it be followed"). Notably, he was not under any illusion that the majority of workers had any choice to "work for others": they are in such a position that they probably can not afford to eat if they don't work for others, regardless of their willingness. This may have been somewhat less the case when capitalism was effectively a niche within feudal economies (in the period where Calvinism emerged) but Weber certainly recognized it to be the case in his own time, when capitalism had long since stopped needing religion to pull it along.

[@tranceyy]

@@douglasphillips5870 Yes, but in the old times, God / church life and the community were pretty much the same and defined ordinary people's lives in almost every way. Separating from the community to pursue one's own wealth was not socially acceptable.

[@haleyjordan6875]

A really helpful clip for teaching Weber! Thanks

[@x0x89]

Stephen Fry is just incomparably good as a narrator Thanks from Germany :)

[@jareddenk9962]

THIS VIDEO IS INCORRECT. Max Weber never claimed that capitalism came for the reformation or Calvinism. This misunderstanding of his theories was around ever since he published it and he stated multiple times that this is not what he was trying to say. Capitalism as an economic system is not a product of the Reformation. Against it speaks already that certain important forms of capitalist business are notoriously considerably older than the Reformation like other points -Max Weber

[@jareddenk9962]

Also I translated the quote from German so I hope I did it justice

[@Andjac2010]

The way I understood it, Weber claimed that even though capitalist enterprise preceded the reformation, Calvinism gave it a moral underpinning which helped it expand and grow

[@Acethecat1000]

I'm really glad you pointed this out, I had to read Weber for an upperclassmen course and then took an elective course where this video was used. I felt a bit crazy when the explanation of Weber didn't really jive with what I read. He also wasn't entirely pointing out the Calvinist perspective, there was more to the varieties of American Protestantism and their function as the guarantor of social capital which also played into the further development of capitalism than simply just Calvinist frugality.

[@rodneyortiz4813]

Do you have a video about Weber's rationalization theory?

[@bronwyngreen119]

Steven Fry, what a great narrator

[@marias54]

ICONIC VIDEO THANK U

[@delant8595]

anyone know what software i can use to create an illustration like this?

[@profneko]

BBC Brasil por favor legende esses vídeos!

[@lukafrisk5201]

I come from Finland and i belive my country is the greatest because of lutheran work ethic

[@personalbiz]

I think it is a very interesting teory. I would like to study it.

[@ulpana]

Go for it. Public Libraries are loaded with books of Weber's essays much easier to read in English than in German! Actually requires no specialized training. Weber's thinking on religion and economic philosophy (which is what economics was called before it rebranded itself with a specialized name "Economics" of which only the CON is useful) should be taught just like Comparative Religion and Philosophical Logic should be taught as public school curriculum. Then reinforced through an educational broadcasting system that is fully insulated from market forces and pressures and paid for by a 1% tax on all the advertising and PR revenue generated by giving away access to the Public's Airwaves, broadcast spectrum and cyber-space whose Research and Development was paid for by tax-payers. Mitch Ritter\Paradigm Shifters Lay-Low Studios, Ore-Wa Media Discussion List

[@vickyaase1]

0:33 The book has Calvin for Calvin and Hobbs

[@bronwyngreen119]

*from

[@selfishcapitalist3523]

Thank god for protestant ethic!

[@isaiahwofford6414]

Yo god does want us to work. DO GODS WORK. Which has nothing to do with money in fact jesus hates money. You help by connecting with people and spreading the love of christ. Not opening businesses unless those businesses are feeding clothing and putting roofs over heads of the less fortunate. This theory was demonic only to use peoples religion to have them working more and harder so the gov and businesses can make more money. They have fooled people and its sick. If you believe in christ there is serious consequences to stuff such as this. Mass manipulation.

[@akseljude3881]

fuck capitalism

[@selfishcapitalist3523]

@@akseljude3881 no, f u

[@BetoMty007]

Fuck protestantism and anglosaxons.

[@jimmyperez8792]

God hate Protestantism. Protestantism is heresy.

[@Mike-wc1zg]

And when the Puritans came over to Plymouth, they brought with them the Protestant Work ethnic and culture.

[@NoSupports]

when I hear that voice I feel like I'm playing LBP2

[@Boristien405]

LMAO that's exactly what I was thinking

[@user-gw9kq7qm2k]

Interesting

[@Akemiarts]

Is the pope Tony Soprano in this? That's so funny.

[@ohshmamas10]

+Ric Jones And the Bishop is Paulie.

[@bce1990]

hahahha i was going to say the same thing :D

[@jayfawn8478]

damnit so short

[@javierperalta7648]

Tony Soprano would make a great Pope

[@trollge3712]

i stan

[@frank2428]

Dont tell me what to do.

[@taylorpressley8454]

Is no one going to ask what is going on, on the thumbnail for this video

[@freeman7055]

If you’re talking about Northern Europe then it’s more of Lutheranism

[@RobSmith2016]

Us Catholics are still tyna figure it all out.

[@Pazuzu773]

Arab and Iranian muslims still tryna figure it out, as are Jews. Religion is the greatest literature of all out of Mesopotamia.

[@ayomitide6489]

Oh thats the boss of the family!

[@zyrenelaynepading1283]

hi sir Quijano, from Caraga State University hurot na akong load sir😭😭😭

[@aldric1654]

The thumbnail is kinda sus

[@pdsds6323]

Oh it's "their" marx again

[@selfishcapitalist3523]

He was an actual sociologist whose works actually contributed to the advancement of western civilization.

[@Donteatacowman]

Ehhh I think it all gets kind of gooey when you try to figure out the cause for a broad social system. Like to transpose this to the modern day - many evangelicals are in favor of the state of Israel specifically because it ties into certain predictions about the end of the world. It's a fringe belief but in some circles it's seen as fact (ask me how I know!) and has arguably been a deciding factor in the USA's support of the Israeli government, or at least is a factor in public sentiment. So "Evangelist Christianity -> political action." Cut and dry. But no actually. Why is this religion so well-represented in this area with this class of people? Why this FACTION of a religion? Why did this political idea get tied to the religion in the first place? Do people support the political action due to their religion, or is the religion being steered by people who already support that political idea? I could go on but I'm sure you get it. The causes are going to be a mix of cultural, financial, sociological, political, historical, geological, etc etc etc. I do 100% agree that the religious impulses behind the modern American idea of a "work ethic" stem from and are supported by protestantism being foundational to our culture. That wouldn't be an issue if people recognized it as such. But you can have a staunch atheist who is adamant that people need to work hard, to endure suffering gladly, that there are no moral in-betweens, that there is only a single way to correctly interpret art or law, that if you do a single wrong action then you are an utterly worthless person... but still have no idea that their personal philosophy is influenced by Christianity at all.

[@rexcelent8560]

Ahh sociology why i chosed this degree? I dont know but i feel smart tho 😂

[@rockanderson1823]

A Protestant gets to heaven through work. This is very powerful as getting to heaven is now in your hands. Catholics get to heaven without work. The USA is mostly Protestant with a 2:1 ratio Protestant to Catholic. Do you want a GDP/capita of the USA or Italy/Spain?

[@jimmy27paul]

+Rock Anderson P

[@RNJuiceable]

+Rock Anderson USA: 4% of the world population, >25% of the world's GDP :)

[@peterallan8378]

In alternative world Arbues

[@jonathankotyk3075]

No, Protestants believe in faith alone, work is a side effect of faith. We are saved through faith in Jesus Christ alone. Catholics believe you need works for salvation.

[@Isimud]

"Do you want a GDP/capita of the USA or Italy/Spain?" - I am protestant but I would rather prefer a GDP/capita and social security system of Ireland and the climate and joy of life of Spain and surely not the murder rate of the USA (though I am not sure if that is related to protestantism)

[@anon-ht7bu]

Lmao, is that Tony Soprano the Pope

[@imperijaable]

It is what America is about, and all Scandinavia and Switzerland.

[@vanlalhruaiiswansi5182]

North America and North Western Europe

[@choysakanto6792]

I live in a third world crapfest of a country dominated by Catholics and located in some islands east of the Asian mainland and I'd rather choose Confucian or Protestant work ethic any day.

[@ninirema4532]

🙏🌻🌻🌻🌼🌼🌼🍎🍎🍎🍎🍎🍎🍓🍓🍋🍋🍐🍐🍊🍊🍏🍏🍏🙏🌻🍎🍎🍎🍎

[@teddy_bearc_bolten3885]

This is an example of why free Masons think atheists are stupid. It’s because an atheist although competent in intelligence, does not see the power that religion has in driving life. Everything we owe entirely to religion.

[@redmifive1257]

Bj

[@Kanal7Indonesia]

I'm Calvinist

[@martinschmidt3989]

Really? I'd have some questions if that's ok?:)

[@colinmickelo6205]

At Least they payed taxes

[@selfishcapitalist3523]

Not much. Taxation was nonexistent back then.

[@IngertJohnson]

@@selfishcapitalist3523 Taxes do exist back then, in most places the tax money goes to the aristrocats and the church. While in the most free market capitalist places, private individuals still pays taxes to night watchman states so in return they have their property right protected.

[@selfishcapitalist3523]

@@IngertJohnson In the good ol days of night watchman state, taxes were very low. There were small levies on industrial produce and farmland produce. No income tax, no corporate tax, no capital gains tax, and so on.

[@Boristien405]

@@IngertJohnson Which society was a night watchmen state? Pretty sure none of the mentioned countries would qualify

[@frankstared]

Nothing has done more destruction than the protestant work ethic and nationalism.

[@truthseek3017]

Fuck calvanism, fuck work ethic, mindless drones.

[@dangervich]

This is nonsense. Capitalism began long before any form of Christianity whatever. It began with the very first markets and the roads that led to them. Not coincidentally, so did the state, policing, and taxes.

[@saluk7419]

"It was an important factor in the growth of capitalism in northern europe." No one said anything about how it began.

[@mkaykaykayy]

yes, the book states capitalism had been around since medieval times. He meant the new form, which was caused by the reformation that we see up until today.

[@tanyaandtheark]

​@William wasn't Christianity the only religion recognized in Middle Ages Europe though? And the old testament is set in 2000 b.c.

[@aclark903]

@@tanyaandtheark It's true if you are Jewish or Muslim in medieval Europe you are going to be something of an outcast.

[@pneron2032]

That cartoon is very inappropriate

[@HerdingDogRescuer]

Weber doesn't understand Calvinism.

[@neneklampir6664]

HerdingDogRescuer But he did the research on the protestant people in the society. For instance, he found out that even in the country where the Protesrant people were discriminated in that time (Like Italy and Spain), he found that most of the success people are The Protestant in those countries.

[@leehughart3160]

@@neneklampir6664 I think he might be commenting on what the video said that Calvinism teaches. They don't work to show salvation.

[@calebgrasse]

>Protestants not even once

[@thelofiaudiobible]

These Calvinist teachings are heretical. If you believe that Jesus did what he did for you on the cross, you are guaranteed "a spot" in Heaven and don't need to worry. We broke God's moral laws. Jesus paid the fine. We can't earn our salvation because the work was already done for us on the cross. "I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may *know* that you have eternal life." - 1 John 5:13

[@warthunder9155]

It's the fruit of the spirit that you do good for your community, doing more good and less evil in your life after making a conscious effort to follow christ is evidence of salvation.

[@leehughart3160]

These views in the video are not Calvinist either. This is a distortion of Calvinism. Reading some other comments, it might be a distortion of Weber's view as well. I know what Calvinism teaches, but not Weber.

[@blackhawkedu1]

The Protestant promotes the materialism. For me as a catholic is more important love and family.

[@steve19811]

Catholic Cultural regions of the America and Europe have the worst quality of life, least prosperous and most corrupt.

[@WasLostButNowAmFound]

Stephen fry. Full of lies. 😂