McLaren Honda | What Actually Happened?

[@SilverScarletSpider]

It is impressive how Red Bull, Honda, and Toro Rosso instantly worked so well together; especially compared to the struggles they each had with Renault and McLaren.

[@rotkiW9014]

Yeah. There was an interview somewhere(sorry I don’t remember where it was), where someone at Honda said that McLaren would give them the dimensions they planned for the engine, and Honda had to fit the engine to the car, while at Toro Rosso they straight up asked them how much space do they think they need, so STR designed the car around the engine, while MCL told Honda to design the engine around the car

[@vynnxa6416]

@@rotkiW9014 there was an old interview when they were first getting together, Honda asked if they increase the engine size by a few cm for reliability.. Toro Rosso was like, yea, not a problem.

[@jgonzalesm6]

Mclaren had their size zero concept-->meaning "Hey Honda, you build the engine around our car!" Obviously that didn't work. In 2017, Honda went with the Mercedes split turbo MGU-H concept. In 2018, Honda went to Toro Rosso. Toro Rosso said "Honda, you build the engine and we will build our car around it." It was a marriage made in heaven. 2021, RedBull and Alpha Tauri have a winning engine.

[@OOpSjm]

Honda had a split turbo design before 2017. They developed it in parallel to the mclaren size-zero because the power limitations were evident from the start.

[@jgonzalesm6]

@@OOpSjm - source??

[@MrXaniss]

Yeah I dunno what they were thinking.

[@lachie5687]

To be fair, the actual chassis and aero of the McLaren's weren't bad and while some people were saying it was the best on the field (which it wasn't clearly), they were definitely somewhere between the front of the midfield and back of the front in those departments. However, if it wasn't for their horrible corporate culture and design, the Honda engine would've been arguably much better. So in short, the McLaren would've been a lot better if the Honda engine was good and fitted how they wanted it to, but at the same time, McLaren has to blame themselves as well for it being a shit engine.

[@walter1824]

Mercedes : "You could not live with your own failure. Where did that bring you? Back to me !"

[@loknathshankar5423]

Engine feels good, much slower than before

[@Ihateusernames1]

Yeah m u ch oh gosh better go up date my virus for Fernando

[@__joao____souza__3734]

@@Ihateusernames1 i think you have a virus in your computer

[@deeznoots6241]

Gp2 engine

[@rotkiW9014]

From what I remember, the head of Honda F1 project said somewhere that at their time with McLaren the team would tell them the dimensions they predicted for an engine, and Honda had to somehow fit their engine inside the car. When they joined Toro Rosso on the other hand, before anything else the team asked how much space they need for a reliable engine and decided to design the car around the engine, not the other way around.

[@franciscojr.millan2102]

Also...after Torso Rosso let Honda increase the size of sum components, the the pu was still the smallest on the grid

[@alvinazarraga6196]

To make the matters worse, McLaren change fuels supplier, last minute, from exxon mobil to BP. Honda designed the engine to work with exxon mobil during the winter break

[@seanonraet8327]

Poor Stoffel was the main victim of the whole McLaren Honda partnership

[@andyvettel4375]

Well he too underperformed massively, he couldn't even out qualify Alonso once,not a single time and struggled in race pace too

[@OOpSjm]

He's at Merc now and still hasn't gotten himself any worthy accolades. Got passed over for Russell.

[@nevessl998]

And Honda is on pair or even higher than the Mercedes engine this 2021 seasson. They have a very good chance at winning the championship now. The Power Of Dreams!

[@shiromi1]

we sure did

[@ericlarson63]

Yes! When Ricciardo said that Honda was not a proven engine in F1 he was so wrong!

[@mrwoofer10]

What a quality content 🔥🔥 cheers mate 🍻🍻

[@TheJinx1]

And now 2022-2023 dominating Honda engine again, it’s like a new whole next level.

[@alx.972]

The difference between McLaren Honda 2015-2017 and RBR Honda 2019-2025, is the fact that Ron Dennis forced Honda to enter the competition a season prior than they needed to, putting a Honda engine on a car designed around Mercedes Engine and hoped for the best, instead of developing an entire car around the Honda engine. RBR played smarter by testing Honda s capabilities with their 2nd team, Torro Rosso, but a key role was Adrian Newey who could have designed their 2019 car.

[@FS84727]

red bull now engine feels good much faster than before

[@theebloxinator]

No, it’s Engine feels crap, much godlike than before. Gorgeous.

[@cesarmu3504]

Thanks for this video! I know that it's a couple of years old but I recently got into F1 and this McLaren/Honda "disaster" keeps getting mentioned, especially now with Honda teaming up for 2026 with Aston Martin, so I had to find a way to educate myself about what happened. Great video and very informative! Thanks again!

[@RaianF1]

You're very welcome. This is my favorite video I ever made so it's good it's still got traction. The idea of my channel is to be evergreen so in 5 years time, the videos are still relevant :)

[@MorbiusTheTruth]

it was a secret blessing for both sides

[@dmaharry7976]

Great vid and content. I too am a fan of the McLaren Honda spilt and all its intricacies. However you neglected to mention the FIA and F1’s responsibility in the failure. Yes sure McLaren and Honda are mainly to blame for the failure. But the FIA at the time made it nearly impossible for new engine entrants to come in and be successful, with all their limitations and testing regs which where not relaxed enough for a new entrant. Forcing them to continuously be behind the curve on firstly their entry and then in the development race. Thanks 🙏🏿

[@RaianF1]

It was Honda's choice to enter F1 in 2015 and also the development curve could have been much much better if Arai would have allowed the outsourcing of other engine manufacturers' engineers

[@dmaharry7976]

@@RaianF1 agreed their choice to enter a year early. But still , the rules completely hampered their ability to be at the correct level. And unfortunately that’s part of a bigger problem in F1 and continues to dog them.

[@chillikoala]

Honda was forced to have its first PU homologated even before its first race, then subjected to penalties under the token system for any changes. Meanwhile, Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault already had prototypes running in 2012 before being able to run their PUs in anger and to iron out bugs in the first year of open competition (2014). And of course, Honda were further constrained by McLaren's 'size zero' concept. Only after two miserable seasons did McLaren finally concede, abandoning their 'size zero' concept, and thereby allowing Honda to design and build the PU it originally wanted, using the split turbo concept that Mercedes were also using. It was sad but actually great to see Honda being able to partner with better teams - TR and RB - after the split with McLaren, but also for McLaren who (under Eric Boullier) were arrogantly adamant that they had the best chassis. It was very satisfying to watch McLaren eat humble pie in 2018 when they had the second slowest car on average across the season, even with Alonso's pace. It truly is impressive to see how Honda has caught up, if not surpass Mercedes; so far it looks like the best engine this season.

[@afenijmeijer9027]

Yes I agree, Honda were always behind the 8 ball. But being Honda they have recovered and now have a very good engine in a very good car and a very good driver and a very good team. So let us see how 2021 pans out. The first race was thriller so hopefully there will be plenty more.

[@OOpSjm]

@@dmaharry7976 not their choice. Ron forced their entrance a year earlier than anticipated.

[@andyvettel4375]

Quality content mate, also what happened to the racing statistics stream? Will it not happen now,was looking forward to your commentory

[@RaianF1]

Thanks mate. Regarding the stream we ran into bullshit copyright claims that won't allow us to stream until late June but we're working on a second channel just for that. Expect am announcement before Imola!

[@andyvettel4375]

@@RaianF1 ok thanks for update, good luck

[@RacingStatistics]

@@andyvettel4375 We will be back as soon as possible!

[@andyvettel4375]

@@RacingStatistics good to know, looking forward to imola

[@AGirlTalksF1]

Oh la laaaaa the two biggest teams to watch this season

[@MotorXF1]

Really cool information man

[@gilbertbagus1542]

Engine feels good much slower than before.... Amazing

[@gilleskaske5148]

It was the kiss of death for Ron Dennis .Sad as he is a good personality

[@MrYukon2010]

Nice job, great content.

[@alexpeak16]

Ron Dennis: "No team can win in F1 as a customer team" Monza 2021 where McLaren (with a customer Mercedes engine) wins and scores their first 1-2 in 11 years: "...you were saying, Ron?"

[@d68st90]

Maybe he meant win a champioship in F1 LOL

[@distortion2752]

2010 RB: haha no

[@cmoreshead]

McLaren on track to the top, he says, three years ago. How right!

[@augustinep6193]

Good video. Thanks.

[@chrisccc22]

I'm 51 years old and have been to over 80 GP in my life. I saw that MP4/4 twice live. The countless legendary beasts I've seen. I remember my very first live view of an F1 car. It was the Tyrrell 011. It was quite odd for me as a youth because it was so much louder than the rest of the cars. It's because F1 back then was a mixed field of Turbos and Normally Asperated engines.

[@squeakycupboard2262]

Damn, I'm glad I got this recommended to me

[@viniciuspimentel406]

Good video

[@RaianF1]

Glad you enjoyed

[@vanlacio4396]

When Walter says it when you drive by.

[@vidung1234]

It still fucking hurts, man :(

[@Britboy404]

Great video

[@josesammut9396]

FERNANDO GETTING FLASHBACKS

[@kenmograd2009]

GP2 Engine! GP2…AAAGGH!!

[@azapro911]

Have to wonder what Alonso was thinking during those years, watching Vettel drive Ferraris that were capable of at least one world championship.

[@RaianF1]

That only he knows

[@alx.972]

Alonso had so much bad luck by entering a team when it was not on top anymore … that Ferrari 2010-2014 was a garbage capable to finish 3rd in wcc thanksgiving Alonso, but was so impressive attacking the wdc with that car. As well McLaren 2015-2018 and look where is it now, I think Aston Martin will be as well a title contender after he left

[@thef1passion991]

Hey! What’s up, just wondering what editing software do you use?

[@RaianF1]

Hey! I use filmora to edit my videos

[@thef1passion991]

@@RaianF1 ok thanks

[@johnfrench5436]

Toto the grand master moving pieces to strengthen Mercedes position.... Oh and save a few bucks for budget cap

[@krms2504]

Was not sauber ahead of mclaren? Just wanna ask... Because they scored 36 points

[@RaianF1]

yep, must've gotten it confused with the 2016 standings

[@aidelibrahim6379]

Honda need to stay in f1 for 2022, the champ just arround the corner.

[@louisbeerreviews8964]

They aren’t

[@kingbilbin]

​@@louisbeerreviews8964LMAO

[@kingbilbin]

Well😅

[@antoniopugliese138]

👏✊

[@rcl998]

Red Bull did win as a customer team with Renault

[@subarnosinha8042]

They were a de facto Renault works team in the V8 era, and in the turbo hybrid era they were building superior chassis compared to Renault and also had far more resources.

[@rcl998]

@@subarnosinha8042 yeah forget to add time moment in comment concerning Ron Denis saying it's impossible to win as customer team

[@RaianF1]

Oh dude don't look at me, it's Dennis that said that and I think he's full of shit lol

[@creepyoldman3147]

" Alonso : its an F2 engine " " Redbull : this is a winning engine , why they can't win? " " Alonso : the car feel so good,much slower than before. " " Redbull : i think there is something wrong with mclaren team development."

[@obiwankenobi7154]

"No team can win in f1 as a customer team"- Ron Dennis RedBull: Well yes but actually no

[@hectorherbert6585]

With the technology they have available today with computers ,material wind tunnels ,it difficult to truly understand Formula 1 evolution with such mediocre results for some team ,one year you have a great chassis ,then it is put aside for a new evo of it but does not perform better..!!!?..regulation/rules aside...I am curious of what Mercedes kept of the winning Brawn GP car ..???

[@hectorherbert6585]

also If you look at lap times from 2005 for example ,the gains are not extravagant......considering the fortune invested.

[@AkbarNurPribadi]

Honestly, it's called time and resources.

[@88ights]

Yahoooo

[@RaianF1]

How did you get here?

[@RaianF1]

Oh let me guess. My dumb ass added it to a public playlist lol.

[@88ights]

@@RaianF1 sorry i was busy watching the video, MATE this was FANTASTIC. These are the good mistakes 👍🏿🤝

[@RaianF1]

Thank you man, this is legit my favorite video.

[@kelliebrooks9094]

I don't want to sound repetitive...but in F1 they need to shelve this hybrid crap...bring the engine sizes back up to 2.4 liter at least...hybrid are fantastic to drive every day but in F1 we need more power curve options that would make engines spice thing up..when u put a pass on a rider or a driver usually it's an area were u are better...braking....high speed the cars all lunge at the same pace...DRS is an example of how bad the engine power curve clone gene is...what is that u take something from one driver so a pass can be made....an I really think it was bull poop that over the last few years Cara were dumping the air on the car following making passing impossible.. Now they have a zone DRS...I really love racing all forms bikes cars...le man's prototypes...it was alway my dream to get a shot at an F2 car to make it up the ladder...to F1...but so much BS is involved its dream has soured on my tongue instead of being ice cream of my favorite flavor...I wanted to go to F1 because I'm the best...an that is where the best play...how can it be the best when there isn't even any passing...when I drive I drive hard but I always leave the other driver room...be fair how u wish some one drove against.u when u go to the outside of a fast corner that's not where u want to be....it's an unwritten rule you are bleeped....no rule book u don't do it if u go there an there no track on the exit that's ur own dumb fault...u better make the pass...ask any good driver....

[@the5gen]

The problem with this is, ICE is an engineering dead-end now with car manufacturers going EV. (hence why F1 has gone to hybrid PU formula now).

[@franciscojr.millan2102]

Now in 2022... Honda have the best engine. Redbull, (still wit da Honda engine) are running away with the championship. McLaren not looking so good

[@RaianF1]

First of all: the engine is definitely not the same as it was back then Secondly: yes, I agree completely lol

[@Andrew1974B]

Ron Dennis was the problem...................................

[@sejn2587]

McLaren winning in 2024 with a customer engine Yikes

[@alx.972]

The idea was good, as long as Mercedes would have delivered the best engines to their own team and the customers had to deal with it, trying to earn some advantage from aero package or anything else but PU. Same thing happened to RBR and Renault.

[@aleczani]

🙂🍑😛 🇱🇧 🇱🇧