Patient with 'Do Not Resuscitate' Creates Organ Donation Crisis | Chicago Med | MD TV

[@BlastGamer77]

This was based on a real case; the doctors ultimately didn't get in trouble because the court determined it did count as a statement, but later it was ruled a tattoo is NOT enough legally so other people wouldn't try it in the future.

[@rocketsingh9097]

Which case?

[@boltthunder2061]

@@rocketsingh9097 i too am now curious

[@orlandobabe]

It should be, maybe he did it to keep his situation out of court. I know I would've if my family and my significant other was fighting over me in court.

[@Joekerz666]

​@@rocketsingh9097not that difficult to use Google 💀

[@daviddiehl-gy2sq]

Mine states DNR, if you do my relatives will take yours. Including the Dr.

[@igakierczak3471]

Dr. House would just have his team break into the hosue and find the paperwork lol

[@nviscallin3702]

Nah house would never take this case

[@1t1s.what.1t1s]

If he would even take this case😂

[@johnettecosby8570]

Yea he really would!😂😂

[@deliagroer2613]

😂😂😂

[@heisafraid]

As if he would care 😂

[@Nahnah111]

Unless there's signed DNR paperwork, you should resuscitate. Tattoos, pendants, etc, aren't legally binding BUT can signal to medical professionals that you have signed paperwork.

[@mgfoster9197]

What about a bracelet?

[@okashiromi5541]

​​@@mgfoster9197 not sure if it's a joke so I'll answer srsly, in some countries you get some sort of identifier so that medical personal can be made aware that you are DNR. in some places it is bracelets or necklaces. But it can also be cards. In my country you get a medical tag you can put on a bracelet or necklace and that's the only thing that will make a medical professional stop.

[@Nahnah111]

@@mgfoster9197 That's a great question and I'm not sure. There are medical alert bracelets for a ton of different things but I'm pretty sure the hospital would still need paperwork on file. Like if you have the bracelet but no signed DNR, they would probably still resuscitate. However, most hospitals nowadays will be able to see a DNR in their computer system after you've filed it so you don't have to carry it around with you everywhere. Best thing to do if you want to wear the bracelet for first responders is to also register as a DNR with hospitals in your local area or an area you may be visiting.

[@nerdygeekgamer5528]

my dad who died when I was 16 had a DNR ORDER but he had it written in his LAST WILL AND TESTAMENT

[@SoranPryde]

@@nerdygeekgamer5528 Which is kind of illogical, but i guess someone didnt advice your dad as to how it does not make sense to put a DNR in your will

[@bkaira]

Rather than a tattoo saying, DNR. It would be better have a tattoo of a QR code where they can access the DNR document’s pdf.

[@potocatepetl]

how doctors do you think would scan the code? In most cases that code would go unnoticed or scaned!

[@mew4ever23]

@@potocatepetl Worse yet, tattoos have been known to distort with time. Maybe the QR works now, will it in the future?

[@Xezian]

@@mew4ever23 there's pretty much no possible way a QR code could distort enough to corrupt the data unless he got the tattoo so small it was only a couple dots of ink. Each block on a QR code essentially represents a 1 or a 0 with the exception of the corner squares which are just there to provide reference for how to orient the QR code, so unless an entire square shifted to an entirely different location this would be nearly impossible because most QR scanners have compensation for smudging, blurring, etc. etc. Now whether or not the link to the document will always be valid is difficult to say but I imagine if you have a DNR legal document linked to that QR code you'd be willing to pay any fee necessary to keep the link functional. If you just get a tattoo saying Do Not Resuscitate above the QR code with like an arrow pointing to the QR i think most would make the link. Ofcourse if you're in an accident where the tattoo is damage say either by burns, lacerations, etc. etc. that could complicate things, but the same would be true of any DNR tattoo, the same thing could've happened to this guy's tattoo theoretically.

[@TheCerealkiller148]

​@@mew4ever23thats the neat thing about QR codes. They only need to be 60 percent intact in order for the computer to be able to figure out the missing data with 100 percent accuracy

[@paintballgaming1090]

QR Codes won't work. You have to have the original document with you in order for it to count we won't follow a PDF.

[@annab3037]

I agree with Dr Manning that quality of life was basically shot and they should let the man go... but the fact her opinion is coming from a place of 'let this man die so I can harvest his deceased daughter's organs' just feels so slimy!

[@PupSentinel]

She kinda got slimy after a few seasons. Which sucks as she was a favorite.

[@shadowgirl8038]

Well, she knew not only would he be a vegetable, or no quality of life. but his wife, now his daughter gone. Who would want to live with that? Plus a chance to do good and save others with donated organs. And the family together in Heaven. I don't think she was "slimy" at all. I think she was a doctor with a heart.

[@matthewbarabas3052]

thats not slimy at all. not even close.

[@AlexisStreams]

here's the thing if you become a doctor you Swear under oath to save people's lives no matter what to the best of your abilitiy if you come across a patient that has DNR Then doctors can't do what they swore to do

[@Liminalism-htp]

Not for nothing... but doctors ARE kinda slimy.

[@blueturtle3623]

A tattoo is not legally binding. Also if there's any doubt, you resuscitate.

[@symbolguy3609]

Is that the policy in Chicago?

[@blueturtle3623]

@@symbolguy3609 That's the law everywhere.

[@loganpickells8305]

@@blueturtle3623except that was decided AFTER the case this is based on. In that case, it was decided the tattoo was sufficient for the doctors to make that call and not resuscitate. The decision after that made tattoos not legally binding in cases of DNR was to stop people from doing the same thing.

[@Sha-mp2fz]

You Do❤sha

[@Rogue_Centurion]

@@symbolguy3609 it’s everywhere

[@ebayrose]

I think the worse part of this show is that these two would swap which side of the argument they were on throughout the series. He'd be on the side of following the standard procedure and not letting his personal emotions get involved and then they'd swap a couple episodes later where she was the one holding the line while he got emotional and broke procedures.

[@mkwhite5054]

That’s why I couldn’t stand either of them or the shows insistence on trying to have them be this grand love story. They were insufferable most of the time both together and separate.

[@AbhishekJ89]

Will and Natalie are probably the most unhinged doctors I've ever seen in a medical drama. Both of them have absolutely zero regard for hospital rules, laws and ethics in general and like you said, they frequently change sides based on their personal feelings. These two should be in jail, let alone practicing medicine.

[@amandab262]

After watching this series for a while, I gave Natalie the nickname “Dr. Dumbass” and Will the nickname “Dr. Supreme Dumbestass” 😂😂

[@hexes5122]

Yuppp, but somehow it's mostly Natalie who gets the hate and Will who gets the coddling and excuses. They were honestly perfect for each other with out of control they both were lmaooo

[@AlexisStreams]

its not personal emotions They are Swore under oath to SAVE People's lives

[@lyssa4101]

A tattoo is not a legally binding contract. For all the doctors know he got that tattoo years ago and has since changed his mind. Tattoos are expensive and painful to remove. A lot of people have tattoos that they regret and wish they could remove but for one reason or another can't. Doctors would feel really bad if they take a tattoo at its word only for a family member to come forward and say "oh he had an appointment next Tuesday to have that removed". Better to err on the side of caution.

[@LavitosExodius]

Expensive to remove sure but you can always have a tattoo artist shade it out in the meantime. Some even do it for a reduced cost you might even find one to shade in the not part for free.

[@jackp8293]

It would be very funny if someone had the DNR tattoo and just had the NOT removed

[@holoinfinity4691]

Dr Halstead was in the right to not assume the tattoo was legally binding but was wrong with wanting to resuscitate despite Ms. Goodwin telling him to honor his DNR tattoo. Yes doctors swear to oath that they must not do harm, but they also shouldn't decrease quality of life of a patient. Just bc CPR is extended doesn't mean their life is gonna be the same as before coding.

[@amelonnamedkate1400]

THIS ^^^

[@alexisjordan9055]

“What is your boyfriend thinking?” Ummm he’s thinking a tattoo isn’t legally binding and until he gets DNR paperwork, he is legally required to do everything he can to keep that man alive.

[@GailBostwick4]

He didn't have a heartbeat for 10 minutes, brain damage begins at 4 minutes. At that point people rarely ever survive, and even when they do, severe brain damage is inevitable. A tattoo is not legally binding, but at a certain point its unethical to continue resuscitation. When his quality of life will be affected permanently and he had already lost his daughter, what kind of life are you dooming him to, even if he does wake up? Even so, I partially understand where Dr. Halstead was coming from, its hard to let people go and make that decision for them, especially when theres uncertainty- death is permanent, and legality is certainly an aspect as well. but you also have to read context clues, and continually rescutiting him is just beating a dead horse. the fact that he wanted to try to resuscitate him AGAIN at the end is what's completely mind boggling.

[@alexdelaossa2024]

My grandma had a legal DNR and my uncle was in charge of it. My older sister wanted to fight my uncle on it but no one in my family backed her. This is what grandma wanted and we all respected her wishes

[@briansouthparkstudio1357]

my Grandad opt out of a operation that would have saved his life ( if he survived the operation he only had around a 30% chance ) but would have made him house bound we all respected his wishes after talking it over with him and the whole family was their for him from within 3 hours of him be rushed to hospitial until his death around 12 hours later most of which he spends sleeping alot of us wanted him to take the chance as if it had been a success he have been with use for alteast another 5 or so years before the issue pop up again ( which at that point he not have likely survived another operation even if nothing else pop up) he had a bubble formed in the blood vessels from his heart that burst

[@AlexisStreams]

And that's what i don't understand doctors swore under oath to save lives

[@cristobalbarra583]

​@@AlexisStreamsare you seriously asking why quite some people do it want to be resuscitated?

[@AlexisStreams]

@@cristobalbarra583 i'm asking because i don't understand why people don't want to be saved....i'm asking because it goes against what Doctors are trying to do

[@cristobalbarra583]

@@AlexisStreams because they don't want to be resuscitated ( bc they don't want to, can't afford the payment+recuperation, prefer to die, etc), while yeah they swore under oath to save every life the code does not apply if the person has a document stating this (wich is stupid bc most DNR are people who is alone and without someone to handle the document they are still resuscitated). You need to have in mind that life is miserable for quite a lot of people and the barrier between death and life is just the fear, so "another chance" to keep being miserable but now with medical bills is the reason of why if you're legally a DNR doctors can get in trouble for doing it.

[@theonlymellll]

5:58 “A tattoo isn’t legally binding” AND THE GIRL TRIES TO CHANGE HIS MIND?!

[@ANG3LALMANZA]

During one of my more recent hospitalizations, the nurse asked me what I would like for the hospital to do if worse came to worse.. I said I would like for you to do anything and eveything in your power to keep me alive. I hadn't even considered the possibility beforehand but I am glad they asked me because I got to talking to my family about my wishes. Keep me alive until it's no longer smart to do so. Tattos for this shouldn't even be considered imo

[@blackdandelion5549]

If you really speak to some nurses they can tell you they have resuscitated some people they probably should not have. My second mom, as we call her, was a nurse for her entire career, and she is DNR because she says that if you say to do everything to save you they will and it can mean breaking rib bones and the nurse physically being on top of you in order to keep the blood pumping to your brain while they do everything possible to restart your heart. It also does not mean you will come back with the full facilities you had as this man did not have oxygen to the brain for a total of 15 min and would have likely had significant damage due to oxygen deprivation where he may have not known he had a daughter or known how to count if he woke up. It should be an educated decisions as you can wake up with some severe pain from someone beating on your chest to keep the blood pumping to your brain so it has oxygen and it can mean much longer in the hospital or you may not come out 100%. The goal is always to never have to find out and to code in the first place. The doctors can't decide when "it's no longer smart to do so" and people can live very poor quality of lives after some traumatic events.

[@ANG3LALMANZA]

@blackdandelion5549 I understand that wholeheartedly. I'm 33 so a few broken ribs wouldn't be a big deal, and when I said when it would no longer be smart to do so, I was referring to my immediate family and not the doctors or nurses as their job is to keep me alive, while my family will make the last call. For me, and myself, I WOULD want my family AND the doctors/nurses to do anything they can. Of course there's instances where that might not be the case, and I expect my sisters to just pull the plug if there is no coming back. My point is that I'm glad the conversation was brought up at the hospital so I could speak to my family about my wishes. Being alive and brain damaged though, that's another scenario, as no one will really know the extent of the damage until afterwards.. but at my age I really don't want to di3. I've made my choice for the time being. Thank you for the input though, I do appreciate it :)

[@MsAZYou]

Its so cute seeing the little girl at the start try her best. She was awake one second then try her best to close her eyes firmly to appear unresposive hahaha

[@thescarletphoenix_616_8]

At the end of the day, the worst thing at all would be to resuscitate that man to a shattering reality of being paralyzed, practically brain dead, and living with the loss of his daughter. In the end they did the best thing possible for all parties.

[@AlexisStreams]

the worst think you can do is not let doctors do their job a job they swore under oath to save people's lives

[@นายกัมปนาทแก้วถังเมือง]

4:21 chest compressions chest compressions chest compressions

[@londonm3161]

a tattoo is not a legally binding document under any circumstances. you have to produce the physical advanced directive or your wishes will not be honored

[@CAteen01]

I am a Jehovah witness and we have a paper called a identificación card for un baptized minors and the DPA for baptized minors and adults which says the wishes of the Jehovah witness along with no blood because we believe that blood is sacred that is carries life and a transfusion is taking life of someone else

[@ajc-ff5cm]

​@CAteen01 which makes no sense because donated blood is a gift from someone else given willingly to keep others alive, but hey - you have a right to your beliefs. I'd donate blood if I could, but I can't. My blood is "tainted" by factors beyond anyone's control.

[@haylene7521]

​@@CAteen01why would someone in your religion refuse blood when it means losing a family member? Just curious.

[@Numb217]

I just told the hospital I wanted a DNR so they documented and whenever I go in I get a bright red DNR bracelet.

[@tymondabrowski12]

@@CAteen01 Transfusion is life-saving, and poses no danger to the person who donated their blood (they make sure of it during the donation). No transfusion means actual taking life of someone (full 100% of life is lost in those cases), so in doubt it should be the worse option. Also the Bible verse only talks about eating blood, probably, like all other verses like that, because it was unsafe to eat bloody meat or blood at that time. Transfusion is not eating. So basically, it's letting someone die. Do you really think Jehovah wants people to die with preventable deaths because of some symbolics? Aren't those symbolic exactly to protect life? Refusing transfusion is the exact opposite of protecting life. Also donating blood in that symbolics would be voluntarily giving life to someone else. Why would anyone refuse such a sacred gift? Why would Jehovah be against accepting such gift? Is Jehovah also against rescuing drowning people? You're risking your life way more when you're trying to rescue someone drowning, than by donating blood for them. Should the drowning people refuse the help?

[@WarGrowlmon18]

The look on the face of the guy checking on the little girl says it all: they lost her😭😭😭

[@beckahalvarez702]

He is the neurosurgeon, the little girl should have had coughing reflex, no matter how heavily is a patient sedated, because the endotracheal tube causes such discomfort, ought to produce coughing reflex if and when moved even mere millimeters.

[@WarGrowlmon18]

@@beckahalvarez702 Yeah I know.😭😭😭

[@iridium5652]

A tattoo written on your chest isn’t a legally binding document.

[@CalebStearns]

Depends the circumstances, than if its onfile, its a notification to go get the file in an event the person is unable to provide their own copy. So yeah even if it was a tattoo it would end up being brought to a hospitals ethics committee on whether they honor it or not.

[@missdaydreamss]

Allowing someone to die just to donate his daughter organs is imoral

[@potocatepetl]

that was not the reason the hospital decided to let him die. He was never gonna be a human being again, but a legume. That if he survived. The reason for the commission was his tattoo.

[@missdaydreamss]

@@potocatepetl but they put extra pressure on the situation when they knew if they let him die, they can donate his daughters organs. You don't think that has a little bit to do with his death?

[@potocatepetl]

@@missdaydreamss not necessary, but I do agree, a hospital should not be allowed to decide upon a child's organs donation. No parent or legal guardian, no donation!

[@missdaydreamss]

@@potocatepetl 💯

[@shadowgirl8038]

It was not JUST to donate the child's organs. If you pay attention to the whole thing, there was a lot more to it. 1. She knew there was a good chance he wasn't going to wake up, and was probably going to die anyway. He would code again and again.. But by that time, it would be too late. 2nd. IF he did live, a good chance he'd be a vegetable or very low quality of life, and IF he could even comprehend he would know that not only is his life pretty much non existent, but his daughter is now dead. Who would want to "exist" like that?. But again.. too late to save other lives. 3rd.. While not legally binding, there was a very large tattoo on his chest with an opinion on the matter... So that combined with points 1 and 2... Not so immoral. More like the opposite.

[@joeyjose727]

Def agree with Dr Manning here 😭 still very sad

[@jdpatrick1106]

I am so tired of other people making medical decisions for people other than themselves.

[@dhoneofficial]

When the little girl came in, her expression is so funny, like she out of character and doesn’t seem to face nothing 😅 In a way that’s good, because that‘s made me realize that this is a show….even tho I know, it‘s just when you‘re too hocked on this…you’re thinking it’s real! I Love you Dick Wolf!!!

[@martynduffy]

Currently watching all Chicago Med, what a fantastic show. In my opinion Dr Charles is the man absolutely love the guy and his complexes. The ED staff are also a pivotal part of the show. Really enjoyable to binge watch. Would highly recommend.

[@bumblebeerror9019]

Even if you have advanced directive legal docs, you have to have someone or something that tells emergency personnel in a situation like this. In situations where DNR docs are not found easily and/or there is no family to contact, doctors will try to resuscitate until relevant documents are found. A lot of DNRs are hospice patients, people who expect to be dying and who will have recently signed those papers.

[@Waywarddaughter7983]

Can we please pay our respects to the kid at the beginning

[@0Aarya0]

I love medical dramas-

[@markcalamaco4465]

I love this episode.

[@abicranberry4608]

He’s right.

[@Vonn_Loren]

No wonder Manning and Halstead got together... they're both overemotional and do things to serve their own feelings rather than the health of their patients.

[@alaakela]

💯 I would not want either of them as my doctor.

[@marissa._]

Agreed. 💯 Honor the patient's wishes.

[@Rogue_Centurion]

@@marissa._ yeah although in this case tattoos are not legally binding contracts so doctors can ignore a DNR tattoo it’s just the guy here was never able to prove with an actual document that he had a DNR order.

[@marissa._]

@99Em07 First off, I would never, ever willingly have a child! 🙅 Having kids is selfish! I'm childfree for a reason! Secondly, what if that person was going through some medical condition that was causing them pain and they didn't want to have to go through that anymore? What if the person TRIED to go through the proper channels but **couldn't afford** lawyers or medicines to manage whatever they were going through, filing the paperwork in question, etc. What if that person was discriminated against because of their age or maybe they weren't taken seriously about whatever pain they might be in. Medical discrimination and medical abuse is real! Either way, honor the patient's wishes!

[@KHFN_YT]

Being child free is selfish because your not taking care of kids because you dont want the responsibility stfu​@@marissa._

[@WarGrowlmon18]

Even IF the dad survived, he was paralyzed

[@desgirl_19]

Paralyzed and his little girl, his last surviving family member, was dead. I get what people are saying about the legal aspect and not knowing for sure, but IMHO letting him go was 100% the best call.

[@blackdandelion5549]

Probably worse as there may be brain damage from the deprivation of oxygen between the time he was down at the accident scene along with the time it took to bring him back after he coded in the hospital. The total time his brain was deprived of oxygen was 15 min per the video that we know of. . . . . . .he may not have been found to be of sound mind to be able to consent to giving his daughter's organs away or even know what they were talking about. He may have needed round the clock care to eat, drink, be changed, and not have any type of adult understanding of anything. . . . . This does not speak to any other injuries or suffering he would have had if there were other physical injuries and the devastation if he did understand his daughter was not going to be with him. He would not have been able to care for her and raise her. It was just all around horribly sad.

[@junbh2]

Plenty of us would far rather live paralysed than die.

[@WarGrowlmon18]

@@junbh2 If I remember correctly, he was paralyzed to the point where he couldn't move much of ANYTHING.

[@SandraNelson063]

I have been in the DNR binder of the hospital I was in for two yrs. The agony was too much I desperately hoped for death. Eventually the staff figured somethings out and I got some better meds and different treatments. It took months, but I was able to be taken out of the binder.

[@SammaJamma1234567]

I would hate to have a doctor like him. Cares more about his ego than his patients.

[@sjlaing]

I have a tattoo that says my blood type and that I’m an organ donor. My hope is they can find my Donor registration records and give my organs to someone in time. I think tattoos like this make people think. Mines visible so it’s a great conversation starter about organ donation. I don’t know about an DNR one though. Organ Donation and DNR are very different.

[@kp7032]

In the UK we have ‘RESPECT’ forms that a Dr goes through with the individual that states the individual’s wishes, in the event that they are incapacitated and unable to make their wishes known. Both my parents were given them as they had chronic or life-limiting illnesses. In respect to my late father he wanted quality of life over quantity, and just to be made comfortable. My mum has specifically asked for no CPR. We can make electronic copies to show responders in the case of an emergency, but it is also recorded on her GP, Hospital, and Care Home systems and physical records as well.

[@afanofstuff9123]

Man I wonder what would happen if they got a guy with the cut here tattoo on his neck? Well the tattoo clearly states this guy was suicidal this was probably an attempt he might try to sue us if we save him.

[@ebayrose]

Tattoos aren't legally binding, even if spelled out like that, without paperwork or the proper bracelet.

[@wintercatforlife3036]

They do not push medication that fast no matter what

[@teedr6149]

unless you have the paperwork in your hands youre getting rescucitated. Its your responsibility to carry the paperwork with you.

[@anthonyciezadlo6375]

Why do they have to follow a do not resuscitate order?

[@blackdandelion5549]

It's called an advanced care directive - in the event any major event happens to you where you are unable to communicate your wishes verbally to your doctor you already have them written down in an advanced care directive. These are your formal wishes to the doctor who is legally obligated to follow your medical wishes and not violate your rights. The same way that if you refuse treatment or medications verbally when awake a doctor can not force you to take pill or get chemo. It's all a patient's choice and the advanced care directive is normally a formal piece of paper that speaks for you when you are unable to speak for yourself like unconscious, in a traumatic accident, end of life care, etc. It has to be followed.

[@nahbruh2613]

“Until he wakes up” GOOFY

[@collinpribula3270]

Well at least the little girl and the father are back together with their wife/mother in heaven now.

[@DradenEquis]

Sometimes Do No Harm means letting them go

[@509FUN]

“Just a tattoo” that’s directly where you’d be doing resuscitation saying specifically what not to do.. it’s a pretty ridiculous thing to claim regardless of what happens

[@derekwalter8606]

DNR’s have dates so a tattoo does not prove that the DNR is still active and effective

[@narliehs1648]

Tattoo aside, I still would've let the guy go. What kind of life would he have had? Even if he'd woken up, which was highly unlikely given the state he was in, and was in full possession of his faculties (even _more_ unlikely), what would he have had to come back to?

[@asia_nzeako]

Not your choice to make

[@RTWLR]

Why would anybody NOT want to be resuscitated?

[@dmf1301]

Did this happen before or after the episode where Will gave blood to a young man who may have been a JW, but had Christian imagery tattooed on his body? Will decided that the tattoos were proof enough that the young man was no longer a JW but when he came to, he was furious because had planned to get the Christian tattoos removed and convert back to being a JW. And his parents had arrived at the hospital by the time he woke up, and when they found out he had been given blood, they disowned him. If this was after, I’m shocked Will would take the risk again… since he got it wrong last time. The tattoo is not legally binding.

[@BlueHero45]

If the man had no way of saying he was a JW or some kind of documentation, playing an are they or aren't they is a stupid waste of time.

[@potocatepetl]

He didn't get it wrong. Unless one is informed that a patient refuses a blood transfusion, a transfusion is performed when necessary. Not every doctor has to know what JW is or what their believes are. There are a lot of sects in this world, there are more important things to concentrate as doctors, other than illogical convictions. If a patient refuses a treatment, whatever the reason, that is another thing. They can sign that they refuse against medical advice. That is always an option.

[@CurryYeah]

JW? whats that

[@sarvolkskaya]

@@CurryYeahjehovah’s witnesses. religion sect.

[@airsoul366]

Tattoo'd?? Gyatt, thats dedication.

[@medwards1993]

If you’re trying to get a response for stimuli, you don’t speak and touch at the same time because you don’t what the patient will respond to! Do one at a time!

[@Vee_breeze2767]

Ngl, if you got that tattooed on your chest. I’d say you’d mean it

[@MoonshineTheDragThing]

If they change their mind, they better start having laser treatment to get it removed and have a medical bracelet clarifying that they now want to be resuscitated.

[@FrozenIsopod]

Yeah, he could have got this tatoo before he had his child, although being resuscitated with​ brain damage due to oxygen loss then finding out your child died wouldn't be pleasant . @MoonshineTheDragThing

[@Vee_breeze2767]

If he really didn’t mean it he should of either had it removed or put another tattoo saying it’s not real or something

[@piinkam0r]

That’s a huge tattoo in an obvious spot ina reason … if he didn’t want it to stick he should have something on him/wallet or something in EHR system (that’s viewable in systems) about what the pt wants

[@Freedomcustom]

tattoo is not a legally binding document in the medical field...

[@NibblyBitz]

0:03 doing a GCS on a 2-year-old is absurd.

[@Jewel-ju2qz]

if someone wishes DNR then they MUST make sure it's known to the nearest and dearest, if there is none, then a certificate, something legally binding...on their person. never watched this show but this doctor seems a bit ott...the poor guy already lost his wife..his daughter just died ....let him go.

[@sebastiansalleg2509]

This...this is a man of integrity, and principle.

[@BrooklynJackson-st2or]

They literally said they was gonna bring in the mother and the mother never came in😢😢😢😢😢😢

[@ladyanime100]

Tattoos don't count, if its not on paper, signed and notarized, it's not legal.

[@grimmspectrum1547]

The lady doc should be fired for interfering with another doctor's patient which is a big No-No. She essentially is responsible for the man's death just so the hospital can profit off of a child's organs that is the basic level of what this is and it is a disgusting lack of compassion for the patient that still had a chance at life and a tattoo is just a tattoo he could have been dared to have it or he could have gotten it as a backup in case he didn't have papers nobody knows therefore it should not even be considered in the same league as actual documentation

[@fulcrum2951]

I dont think anyone ever sign a contract on a tattoo

[@DeidresStuff]

The health system I generally use has all the forms available and notary in their clinics/hospitals. You can give them very specific directives, and any of their locations can access them. I need to do that because if I'm braindead, I am not going to be a chia pet. Let me go.

[@Rushinator1]

Personally I would let my family know my wishes & have them make the decision. I would be against long term life support but okay with short term intervention if I had hope of quality of life. Basically if I was in a hopeless situation then just let me go. I would only be okay with suffering if there was a reasonable chance of living a decent life afterwards.

[@AaronJFriesen]

4:26 - Are we missing something? The EKG is showing normal sinus.

[@ComplexEvil]

Its amazing how many if you are arguing we should go against peoples wills and bring them back without their consent because the message was written on skin and not paper.

[@inoox]

Skin is not legally binding, he could have got that tattoo because its funny for all they know.

[@hexes5122]

This was the second time Will had done something like this too. In the first season he had guilt over missing a diagnosis and revived a man after 20 mins, leaving him a complete vegetable in need of full-time care. He probably ruined that whole families' lives putting them in that situation, the man's wife had 3 kids and they were already struggling. It's funny because when he first came on PD/Fire, he was totally willing to let Severide die during the hospital explosion.

[@WidowOfOfficerDavis388]

Probably cause it’s too expensive for the healthcare it’s sad to choose death over life but who can afford the healthcare??

[@marissa._]

Healthcare is expensive, however at the same time, there's worse things than death.

[@jlynntrout1273]

Praise lord grace

[@ReplicantDeviancy]

I have a DNR filed with my advanced directive, but I still don't trust the medical system. I do want to get a DNR tattoo. Seeing a doctor that would purposefully ignore it... That TERRIFIES me.

[@manen2391]

Then you or remaining family would sue, a tattoo isnt legally binding, thats why its being ignored in the show and in real life cases as said in court that declared anything outside of the papers as not legally binding and can only be used as a signal to look for papers without said papers it is the duty of the hospital to resuscitate, if you do feel strongly about it, have a copy of your dnr with you along with the adress and or phone number of the person you filed it with in case of emergencies, you can have a bracelet or locket with it inside or just have it in your wallet

[@alyssastern6073]

Keep a record of that in your wallet and sign it (Dr. signature would help too), see if you can get a mini version wallet sized verified. Also if you don't want the tattoo but want to seem professional get a medical tag (like the ones people do for deadly allergies or diabetes) in case you get separated from your wallet with a phone number of either a law provider, medical provider, or social worker vouching this is what you want. The more records you carry with you the better.

[@tea-noodle]

If you feel strongly about it then you need to carry something on you that medical professionals can follow to find an actual DNR. If you feel strongly about it then you could even tattoo instructions on how to find your legally binding DNR on your body.

[@marissa._]

Same. 💯 There are worse things than death and not respecting a person's wishes to die is inhumane, disrespectful, reproachable, revolting, reprehensible and repugnant!

[@joshualfalken]

@@marissa._ Still, if in doubt, resuscitate. I'd rather save someone who wanted to die then let a person who wants to live die.

[@alizaali3151]

That girl doctor has lost her mind. You learn DNR in medical school, assumptions is not how any of this works.

[@2centschange]

The director for this episode needs to learn how to direct kids better. She was 'playing dead' but you can tell she was scrunching her eyes and had her arms up and hands balled into fists. I don't blame the kid, its not her fault, its the director. I suspect its why they cut her out of most of the shots as things went on in that scene.

[@effkay3691]

What if it’s just a tattoo? Nonsense

[@sigamer216]

Shouldn't the DNR paperwork also be in his chart?

[@theghost8914]

In my opinion anything that indicates to not resuscitate should only mean to look for paperwork. If there is no official paperwork then you ignore it. If they don’t want to be brought back then they should do the paperwork instead of getting a tatoo

[@gracier2718]

I would not want her to be my dr

[@flakeycrustduster]

DNR could have been the name of his band

[@Afroman29]

There should be paperwork or a document saying he doesn't want to be resuscitated. A tattoo is not legally binding.

[@potocatepetl]

When there is no family, you cannot know if such a document exists or not. Until the police might enter his house and search for the document (if they ever find it), there could be days; especially in big cities with other priorities. Now the law was made clear and the tattoo is not taken into consideration. There was however a time where this was not the case.

[@valdr2286]

A tattoo is not a legal binding document as a DNR should be

[@ItsCaos]

At what stage do we stop trying save someone just for their heart beat. Will was right professionally as a doctor but morally? The man had lost his wife, daughter, the use of his legs and whatever was damaged in his brain from oxygen deprivation. Why do we allow bodies to just lay in a bed for a heart to pump blood around a husk?

[@NekoTamer15]

They keep conveniently blocking view of the girl's face so we can't see that it's a doll. The fact that they are doing that, on top of the fact that no awake 2 year old would be motionless that long, ruins the illusion

[@izzybeau8183]

This has been a major issue with him with Dr. Halstead he goes against people with DNR and blames others for making this choice. It's not a simple choice, your not there fighting the battles with them so I find it disgraceful and disgusting how you want to bring these people back who said they don't want to. That it is a form of weakness? Death is a part of life, yes its sad but its something to honor. And many patients unfortunately have to wait in pain till a donor is found but these people carry on their legacy.

[@WidowOfOfficerDavis388]

The little without her daddy is worse😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

[@marissa._]

They both passed. They're with each other in a much better place.

[@WidowOfOfficerDavis388]

Which made it so sad but shows they couldn’t be without each other

[@ladyweasellou3367]

Someone could have DNR tattooed across their chest and 10yr later change their mind but can't get the tattoo changed.

[@Taylor-qq4ig]

I am so confused , did the little girl survive?

[@catrionachilds9021]

What happened to the little girl is she still alive?

[@andyt2k]

DNR should always be explicit not implicit

[@Parascuba]

in my opinion tattoo is not legal because someone could have forced him to tattoo on maybe parent did when he was child. Make sure it's on drive license like some people have donor on their drive license. there could be DNR on it too

[@ZukoHalliwell]

The girl is 2 years old. What possible use would her organs have?

[@readabookwithme]

Babies need organ transplants, the same as adults.

[@shadowbarkspawn5711]

Blood too. How much are eyes worth?

[@ZukoHalliwell]

@@readabookwithme That's actually terrifying, especially for a parent. Can you even imagine?

[@samanthagibson5791]

​@@shadowbarkspawn5711 Blood can be given from an adult, its organs only.

[@ratsumatra3003]

​@@ZukoHalliwell I try not to 🥹

[@ultrasoulviver]

Not only is a tattoo not legally binding but even if it was all that means is to not restart his heart should it stop beating which has nothing to do with receiving treatment up until that point if it even occurs.

[@rubyrudy]

He had a bad habit of not following the wishes of the people in his care.

[@morbius109]

Between Manning and Halstead they should rename the show Overemotional Med.

[@ErikGomesbraz-ev4bj]

IKR. They’re both like the most questioning medical professionals ever. Like they just came in directly from med school and didn’t learn everything especially DNR 💀

[@Bigdaddydeadpool]

I’m just wondering what happened to the little girl.

[@KarenLee-m4o]

I think both of them are organ donation..

[@yukiochan1]

Argue back and forth all you like about the tat. That's not the most messed up part. The woman fought for it to be honored, not because she cared about the mans choice but because of he was dead she could harvest the little girls organs without his consent. Honestly there's not enough people talking about THIS. DNR or not, the obit reason this woman fought to have it honored was because she wanted to have control over the daughters organs. It's great to be a donor. Great when grieving parents make that choice. But I this case she's the type that would push and aggrivate living parents, telling them how horrible they were if they didn't agree with her. She should not be allowed on cases where there potential for organ donation. She will always be rooting for the outcome that leads to organ donation.

[@DanielHarris-z8j]

Do not resusertate should be a valid law no mater what the Dr think

[@Freedomcustom]

It is if the documentation has been properly filed and signed, a tattoo doesn't count or is recognised as such document

[@synovelle]

Natalie's just wrong this episode. I get she wants to be able to donate the girl's organs before they aren't viable, but your main objective as a doctor is to do no hrm. By following some ink on the patient's body without legal paperwork to document otherwise, you are to continue erring on the side of life. Refusing care when the patient is dying because it would benefit someone else is not the answer. You try to do what's best for all patients, yes, but you have to take priority, and the patient who is DYING and can be resuscitated is the priority in that scenario.

[@marissa._]

How do you know that's what the patient wanted though?

[@j.yellow0190]

​@@marissa._ dosnt matter, without LEGAL paperwork of some kind they are to lean on the side of preserving life. If he really wanted to not be revived he would have a DNR created for him instead of some tattoo.

[@mkwhite5054]

@@j.yellow0190that’s the case NOW but like someone already pointed out this was not a clear cut issue and had to be determined in a court on whether things like the patients tattoo counted or not as an advanced directive or not.

[@daviddiehl-gy2sq]

Take his lisence!

[@lokieleven374]

does the hospital have to respect that ? its just a tatoo. i feel like it has no legal influence.

[@obruchecarson]

Can someone please tell me what season and episode is this?

[@Nirvash89]

Avoiding on the Legal aspect of this case, the doctor in charge of Mark Jones really needs to get off his high horse. I get it, I really do, no one, especially a doctor, wants to see someone die on their watch, but for the love of God, listen to what the director said. Spinal Cord Damage and Irreparable Brain Damage. Even if this guy did wake up, he's at best in a wheelchair for the rest of his life, at worst, he's suffering from mental deficiencies; and he will have to live without any immediate family members, after losing his wife AND child. Honestly, it was a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation, but no one should have to suffer the abuse his coworker did when the higher authority came down with a decision that didn't align with his moral code. At that point, it would have been a mercy to let this man go.

[@brentonholbrook6928]

I find it to be an absolute ethical violation that a hospital could or would file for guardianship of an orphaned child just to be able to make the decision to harvest organs for donation. If both parents are gone and no next of kin is available, then the option of donation should be off the table. I understand the implication that one death could become several, but the medical rights of the infant, as well as that of her parents or family, not being taken into consideration prior to such an event is not fair. This is a complete conflict of interest. I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know if this is true or would ever happen.

[@ColinTherac117]

This is why the default should be organ donation with the option to refuse in advance for any reason, rather than the opposite which is what the law currently is. When it is the case that organs are rare, it is only natural that shady practices will occur to get as many as possible. If organs are plentiful, then the doctor can focus on saving each of their patients as there is no pressure to want your particular patient to donate.

[@maryrutherford8311]

Is it legal

[@Freedomcustom]

no it's not, no medical or legal board recognises a tattoo as a legal document for DNR

[@symbolguy3609]

Is this the first or second time Halstead had a heated confrontation with a DNR? He once resuscitated a mom with cancer who had a DNR, and Sharon chewed him out for it.

[@louiscyphre2267]

Chewed*