Measuring Flipper Latency on the Legends Pinball 4KP - Part 1

[@Tim_York]

Thanks for the information Jon. From my statistics days in college a sample of thirty is a good baseline. We appreciate all that you are doing and the testing that is going on to reduce lag on the Zen tables. I can’t wait for the progress that will be made in the five week rollout. 🖖🏼

[@WagnersTechTalk]

Thank you Tim, in the past making 30 samples manually was very time consuming. With our new system, it's a much more efficient method for gathering accurate numbers. Looking forward to gathering baseline numbers for all existing tables.

[@TampaTec]

Great video 👍 this was the best video showing and recording flipper latency.

[@WagnersTechTalk]

Thank you so much Paul! I appreciate your help figuring out some of the hardware side of things 😎

[@PapaBradsGaming]

Great video. Very scientific!

[@WagnersTechTalk]

Thank you Papa Brad!

[@StezStixFix]

Nice! I just picked up one of these and it's great to see these test results. Looking forward to seeing how much things improve on the Zen's after the update drops in a couple weeks 👍

[@WagnersTechTalk]

Congrats and looking forward to sharing the details!

[@chrisowen1418]

Will be great to see these results on the channel after the updates

[@deanmcmanis9398]

Thanks for doing all of this work, and the videos. I won't be testing this myself (except for enjoying the improved feel during gameplay) but I do appreciate your work, and this shows that Zen and ATGames are serious about improving their games and listening to customer feedback. Plus having these improvements makes it easier to feel confident about buying more Zen and other 4KP pinball games

[@j-grey]

Great work! I've done much of this work myself, other than automating it with a Pi. I put together a breadboard with a light and used the high speed camera method to measure from the light coming on to flipper movement. My data pretty much matches yours for the native Magic Pixel tables. It's the Zen tables and, tragically, OTG where the total latency gets much higher, often around 150ms or even occasionally above that. I really hope the Zen tables can get down below 100ms, and I hope OTG can too, though I'm not sure if they're even working on that issue.

[@WagnersTechTalk]

Great to hear that our numbers are mostly in sync for the MP tables. We wanted to build a more scientifically accurate approach to measuring latency and very pleased with the results. Audio latency would also be nice to incorporate into ALT, but prone to errors. We'll have numbers published for all tables, once we have the baseline values, then the improvement numbers published we can consider OTG measurements. ALT will still work just fine for that also.

[@metalsoso5460]

Last time I measured lag on my 4kp, I just used a logic probe and my Nikon camera..

[@Comrade2k7]

Great Job !

[@WagnersTechTalk]

Thank you!

[@JoshJohnson-d7r]

Is the latency dependent on the SoC load/utilization? I don't have a table myself, but I remember reading reports of users claiming that turning down/off certain visual effects can affect latency. Thanks for the video. Looking forward to the next one.

[@WagnersTechTalk]

Very welcome, thank you for watching Josh! We'll have the pre-improvement and post-improvement numbers published and compare with all visual effects on/off.

[@HollowBox]

Great content! do you think it’s possible to get another 20% latency reduced to be on par with the magic pixel and Gottlieb tables?

[@WagnersTechTalk]

Thank you! There was a huge investment in time and development effort from Zen Studios, Magic Pixel and AtGames that went into todays release and more for the upcoming waves. We are always looking for ways to improve our products, from that standpoint, we're never done.

[@potatochipz3097]

Thanks for the video. Great to see improvements are coming to the zen pinball packs with atgames 4K pinball.

[@WagnersTechTalk]

I'm extremely excited to see these improvements coming!

[@guilitogamer]

Please Do this after the update with comparisons Thanks

[@WagnersTechTalk]

Certainly! The comparisons will be based on what you see in this video. I'll record the tables as they are today to get our baseline numbers. Then, as the updated tables are available, I'll re-run the latency test and show the before/after numbers. We'll have both to compare the improvements in milliseconds and frames.

[@gargamel3966]

So what does Adams family Come in at?

[@WagnersTechTalk]

That will be added in Part 2, next week for all Zen tables so everyone will have a good idea of where we are before/after.

[@durrclips746]

What is the "latency" on a real machine? Is the physical reaction from the electric coils instantaneous?

[@WagnersTechTalk]

Great question, I don't own one to test.

[@DG8RS]

I measure the flipper latency on my 4KP in "UGGH"'s.. still so disappointed they haven't found a fix. Addams Family is completely unplayable for me.

[@WagnersTechTalk]

Sept. 12th is the planned date for TAF latency improvements.

[@falviousuk]

@@WagnersTechTalk Improvements or fixed.

[@_mcap_]

TAF plays miserable. I have never played a full 3 ball game because it is so bad. I haven't and won't buy another FX table or pack until it is fixed. I can't believe we are getting some sort of resolution 11 months later.

[@Trojan0304]

Waiting for your report about fix in September, won’t buy now

[@sakumisan]

@@falviousuk "fix" is too subjective of a term. What is OK to someone may not be OK to someone else. Don't expect 0ms latency, but I'd expect them to be same as the Magic Pixel tables.

[@dkoskigmail]

It would be interesting to see OTG measurements too -- maybe a couple Pinball FX and VPX tables to understand how these compare. Thanks for the greta video Jon!

[@WagnersTechTalk]

Thank you! OTG is not currently in-focus in the short-term, we need to collect the data for the built-in tables first. However, once we've done that OTG is a good idea to sample as well, agreed. Thank you for your recommendation!

[@sakumisan]

@@WagnersTechTalk OTG is probably as big of a selling point of the machines as much the built in tables.The data on that would be very helpful.