Medjugorje: Everything You Need to Know w/ Fr. Gregory Pine O.P.

📺 Full Episode: • Father Gregory Pine Gi...
Fr. Pine and Matt talk about how we got from reciting 150 psalms to the Rosary we have today.
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[@Antonio_Serdar]

As a Croatian I must say Fr. Pine's pronounciation of Croatian names is incredible for an English speaker.

[@cehson]

Agreed :) was gona write exact comment. Pozdrav :)

[@zcuric]

Slažem se!

[@Oatmealyum]

Bogu hvala

[@tvrtkosrdoc4261]

Bogu hvala i slava

[@martinllork807]

i was gonna fer real say the same thing

[@jk777212]

I've been there, numerous conversions, long confession lines, miracles very good fruit . would love to go back

[@VeronicasVeil333]

This was amazing! I am speechless listening to Fr. Pine. Thank you so much!

[@beavelez8039]

I just came back from Medjugorje. You breath God there! And the sweetness of our Blessed Mother.

[@tdeo2141]

The first 5 or so minutes are very elucidating. Thank you for this interview. Personally, I know that Medjugorje saved my Faith. I come from a time when communism was just starting to show its teeth in my country, and the school system made sure to obliterate any remainder of the Catholic faith the students had. Out of my school friends and classmates, maybe 1% are still Catholic. I’m one of them, but only because Mary’s messages from Medjugorje made their way to me.

[@Mother_of_God_Sanctum]

Amen

[@tdeo2141]

@@Mother_of_God_Sanctum thank you, God bless.

[@Malygosblues]

"I don't want to get tied down in burdensome speech" proceeds to use flawless Latin and Slavic technical speech. Great stuff

[@deutschermichel5807]

Perfect

[@jennicassidy4416]

Thank you Fr Pine for your clarity.

[@francescaderimini2931]

Listen to what Fr. Ripperger says about it!

[@therese_paula]

Do you have the link please? Thanks!

[@Mike-xp7zv]

i get the sense that those doubting thomas types who mocked Lucia in 1917 are doing the same thing with Medjugorje, any fair-minded person would do their homework but the internet peanut gallery is preferred by many

[@paix1234]

Fr.

[@JJ-zr6fu]

I don’t think followers understand the fallout will happen when it’s declared false. I went to a legionnaires of Christ school when their founder was exposed. There are many priest that have left the priesthood because of it.

[@Charlie25068]

Why do you claim "when". I've been out there three times (first time very sceptically after reading the allegations about Medjugorje that are spread online) and if the Church ever rules, they are false, then I will happily accept that, and still be eternally grateful for the many millions of graces received at Medjugorje from Our Lord and through Our Lady's intercession.

[@kellysoo]

It is inevitable. Some people get disappointed and reject God. While some people get disappointed and realized now where their faith has been. It is all meant to happen to purify us. I was one of those that get thrown out of a church (said I was not loyal to the Senior Pastor) I did not give up on Church and left Christ forever. Christ allowed such things happened in my life to test and to purify. This event is here to reveal hearts. It’s all good in the end.

[@elizabethhelmin3346]

Great video. Very much appreciated this conversation and openness of all to discuss this topic rationally.

[@TheJmlew11]

Great job Thursday for pushing back on this subject. It was a great discussion from both ends and I’m glad you came in with your perspective. I have a common critique following conversation with many, though not all, of those whom I know who go. There seems to be a disproportionate amount of focus on the apparitions (including those that happen allegedly to individuals visiting regularly) as opposed to any messages pointing towards Christ. Any authentic apparition ultimately points towards Christ. And while that is not totally absent, many in Medjugorje see the apparitions themselves as an ends and not means to bring the world closer to Christ.

[@Charlie25068]

As someone who's been three times, I haven't experienced that at all. The different groups I have been with were all aware the apparitions are not approved yet and are under consideration of the Church. The main focus in Medjugorje is not in fact the apparitions but the 3 hours every day of Rosary, Mass, Confessions and Adoration. The apparitions are not even referred to at any of the Masses / homilies. It's quite something to see 5-10,000 people kneeling in complete silence for an hour in Eucharistic adoration every evening, and huge queues at the 50 confessional boxes, many of whom before that had refused to go to confession from 5-50 years.

[@TheJmlew11]

@@Charlie25068 And that’s great that you experienced that. I served as a seminarian for 5 years and consistently I found the opposite. There were exceptions of course, but they were far from the norm.

[@Charlie25068]

​@@TheJmlew11 All that means is that the different pilgrims vary in knowlege, logic and intelligence, just like pilgrims do everywhere else.

[@TheJmlew11]

@@Charlie25068 No one has said anything otherwise. Of course there are varying degrees of knowledge and logic of pilgrims. I’m just noting that in my experience in many different communities across the East coast, and some in the Midwest, the vast majority of those who attend and then promote Medjugorje have a disproportionate regard to the notion of visions and messages as opposed to the content itself and where it is supposed to be pointing towards.

[@Charlie25068]

​@@TheJmlew11 I can equally note it's not my experience in many different communities throughout Europe, but then I don't like to generalise and pigeon hole people, assume what they think, or go by guilt by association. Where it all actually points is 3 hours every evening there of Rosary, Mass, Confession and Adoration by the 1 million pilgrims a year that go there, who are then pointed to pray the Rosary every day from then on, fast every week, read scripture every day, and attend Mass at least once a week and more often if possible, and attend Confession at lease once a month.

[@Olivier1]

Really great discussion about a difficult topic.

[@briancarroll1917]

As many points there is to argue for its authenticity, There is as many points to argue against it. If it is true I think we’ll find out soon because of the times we are living in.

[@donnabodin3494]

If this is of the devil he sure made a big mistake - how many priest do we have because if their conversion from the fruits of Medjugorje , how many adoration chapels do we have , how many rosary groups and daily communicants because of Our Lady’s “alleged” apparitions.? Peace Be with you guys! Thanks for your opinions .

[@billmartin3561]

You can’t judge truth based on vocations.

[@monicamohan4720]

​@@billmartin3561 Exactly. What is a certain amount of vocations to the devil if he can get some good protestant mindset into those that go there.

[@dija5578]

@@billmartin3561 and your an expert on truth?

[@donnabodin3494]

@@monicamohan4720 Yes very Protestant - adoration of the blessed sacrament twice a week - about 3 hours of prayer daily every evening , daily mass, daily rosaries, confessions every day with long lines in every language - very Protestant indeed! (?)

[@AnalogKid333]

That does not mean the supernatural events are true. A lot of Catholics could gather in the middle of the desert somewhere and build a church and have priest hearing confessions all day and make it a Holy site, and there would be conversions.

[@DrEMichaelJones]

"The Medjugorje Deception: Queen of Peace, Ethnic Cleansing, Ruined Lives"

[@betsybattles2696]

Caution is always a good thing.

[@Charlie25068]

Indeed, but false misinformation is not, and there is a lot of false negative claims out there about Medjugorje

[@petermolloy992]

The number of vocations and conversions to religious life at Medjugorje are all that matter. It has been an incredible catalyst for both vocations and people to return to their faith. I’m reading Acts at the moment and the Romans still despise the Christians. It’s our lot in life! History has that habit…………..

[@davidrojas6457]

I mean, "all that matters" is a bit hyperbolic. The mysterious nature of the topic naturally requires nuance to be exercised.

[@petermolloy992]

@@davidrojas6457 ‘hyperbolic’ of, relating to, or being like a curve that is formed by the intersection of a double right circular cone with a plane that cuts both halves of the cone : of, relating to, or being analogous to a hyperbola. …….. seriously…….

[@Bbl1nk]

​@@petermolloy9922nd definition: "(of language) exaggerated; hyperbolical."

[@davidrojas6457]

@@petermolloy992 OOF

[@petermolloy992]

@@davidrojas6457 you are such a charmer! And your economy of words is Dumbfounding. There is no way to compete to such intellect. I gracefully withdraw from this banter.

[@eduardofortini4633]

FR. LEON PEREIRA OP ( A priest from the order of preachers from the Province of England) is actually the oficial Chaplain of the English Speaking Pilgrims that go to Medjugorje. He himself saw the Blessed Mother in Medjugorje.

[@radiorain5665]

When Father talks about the fruits being evidence, that sounds like a placebo effect to me. I just feel that it's worth considering that. Thank you for this discussion Matt, Thursday, and Father Pine.

[@inedanap6253]

Very much so. It's possible to feel the spiritual fruits of holy people gathering together without the apparitions being approved, I would be very wary of this

[@peregqwe18878]

The defenders always mention the “fruits” rather than engage raised factual criticisms. It’s not a legitimate way to argue IMO

[@hamie7624]

I've met some very devout and holy sedevacantists, but it would be dumb to talk about the "fruits" of sedevacantism

[@cmac369]

I think you guys are missing the point. The evil one is going to appear somewhere and cause people to be converted. If the evil one watches people coming to Christ you think he's going to keep doing what he's doing?

[@Charlie25068]

Actually Fr Pine said it's one of the evidence factors, not the only one.

[@anezkaburesova7855]

I have been there twice and it is a beautiful place

[@rschiwal]

Remember how horrifically Padre Pio was treated by the Church while he lived. The church tests everything and sometimes gets pretty harsh.

[@jennifercoffey6543]

There is a reason people say “go there and see”- there are realities that cannot be accurately articulated and “reasonably” explained. Some things truly are meant to be experienced, and this is one of them- it is at essence about Relationship with the divine. Try explaining the Real Presence to someone outside our faith. “To those who believe, no explanation is necessary. To those who do not, no explanation is possible.” This is why the comment box is full of “go and see/experience for yourself”.

[@thelewissimplelife2454]

I went to Medjugorie and I can testify that it’s REAL! You have to live it, Go!!!!

[@AK5of8]

Surprise! Father, many of us expect a little more from the clergy than the laity. And we are often disappointed. I’m loving the guy challenging from behind the camera. I totally agree! Lord give us patience to wait for the church to speak.

[@13cicc]

Medjugorje has changed my life. The fruits of Medjugorje are : conversions, prayer, fasting, going to Confession, stop using drugs and getting rid of other addictions, physical and spiritual healing. Jesus told us that we should look at the fruits of something.

[@kimlersue]

I can test this for you all. My beloved spouse is a scientist and devout ATHEIST. He facilitates and respects my Catholic faith..BUT..everyone who ever met him would say..."For him to convert..would be the greatest miracle ever." Saint Monica pray for him.

[@GothVibeWars]

I will pray for you both. I am in a similar situation with my husband (he's not atheist but is a very lukewarm non Catholic Christian). St. Monica and St. Nonna pray for us.

[@kimlersue]

@@GothVibeWars And I will pray for yours!

[@kimlersue]

@@ChristIsLord7 After 50 years..yes, it may be time. if I do...and he has a conversion..Pints with Aquinas will be told.

[@GothVibeWars]

@@kimlersue Thank you, I truly appreciate it :) God bless.

[@lispan3768]

There is no way a group of teens can stick with the same story for so long, so it started out very true I am sure, however I have to wonder if the current alleged apparitions are still real. The pressure to continue would be enormous at this point...a whole town's economy rests on Marijiana continuing to have visions. I read her book...she keeps saying the BVM says no more visions....yet then there is another , and another.

[@Charlie25068]

She said no more daily visions. What financial pressure? People visit apparition sites for hundreds of years after the apparitions are long over. Lourdes, Knock and Fatima have received far more visitors after the apparitions finished than they ever did during them. The very same financial allegations were made and still are made about Lourdes, Knock and Fatima.

[@crystellesaleh4800]

Well I mean, Jesus also said “come and see”. Subjective experience has always played a significant role in discernment. It’s wrong to take it alone of course, and the ultimate measures of any discernment will be whether it lines up with Church teaching and tradition + its fruits; but there’s ultimately nothing wrong with someone saying “go see for yourself”. I had my conversion in Medjugorje as well. That place and experience will always hold a very special place in my heart, regardless of how the Church rules on it eventually, because even if the apparitions are deemed false, the Lord’s work in my heart and the hearts of so many was true and brought forth true lasting conversion in thousands. Can it be pinned to the piety of the community there? Certainly. But that piety was inspired by the alleged apparitions-inspired and maintained for decades. Even if they turn out to be false, “God uses all things for the good of those who love Him” and the “false apparitions” would have been a wonderful weapon against the evil one regardless.

[@Mother_of_God_Sanctum]

Another now devout Catholic formed as a young person by Medjugorje. Thank you.

[@stephanottawa7890]

If the bishops says no why keep encouraging something. It is simply a question of MONEY. The local Franciscans and the people want the MONEY. That is all it is. A MONEY making adventure. Whether it is from the devil or not I cannot say, but it is devilish.

[@marijacolak3438]

I dont think we should base our faith on any geographical place or people, except on the Bible. People can come there, see bad things too and be disapointed like I know those kind too because good and evil is everywhere. If you have Jesus in your heart, if you love your God and close ones, I am sure, there is Mary and with you wherever you go...It is all about having opened heart.

[@lispan3768]

While in prayer recently I felt led to again research " the fruits" . I know sincere people who pray the rosary will be blessed HOWEVER what I suddenly discovered is how wicked the Fransicans who have led the seers became: Pope Ben 16 LAICISIZED AND EXCOMMUNICATED one! Numerous priests DEFROCKED! They kidnapped and BEAT UP a Bishop!!

[@mejrija]

Okay, for those of you who don't know the region, Bosna and Hercegovina, as is suggested by its name consists of Bosna and Hercegovina, and Medugorje is located in Hercegovina. I remember our Bosnian Franciscans joking how out of all places, Gospa decided to come to the Hercegovinians, the more radical ones in that country😂. They were not keen on the alleged apparitions.

[@Antonio_Serdar]

Those are not Bosnian Franciscans, those are just traitors (not for not believing in Međugorje, but for such comments about their people). Most Croatian Catholics both in Bosnia and Herzegovina visit Međugorje regularly.

[@MikeyJMJ]

Have both parts always been united? I know Hercegovina is more Croatian and aren't there more Muslims and Serbs in Bosnia?

[@mejrija]

@@MikeyJMJ Actually, you could Google about the history of aforementioned region, it's complicated and fascinating at the same time. What really concerned me was how the Hercegovinian Franciscans, at least some of them were willing to directly disobey their Ordinary, I heard even of people kidnapping a bishop. And the Hercegovinian Croats were much more radical in the past war than the Bosnian ones, so where are the fruits? And just look at all the businesses that sprung in Medugorje, no wonder they would perpetuate the situation. Just saying

[@Charlie25068]

@@mejrija Businesses have sprung up around every large Marian shrine, and yes Hercegovina is extremely complex.

[@carolburt3900]

There is some fanaticism associated with this apparition. My concern is that when the alleged 10 secrets are revealed , and if they contradict Church's teaching and public revelation how is that going to affect the faith of millions?

[@littleboots9800]

I have just come from a video of two priests discussing Medjugorje and they said the seers said the Virgin said that other christians and muslims are dear to her and Jesus and that man erects boundaries around religions but her and Jesus dont. Real universalist type stuff. Is that true? Surely that would mean it couldnt be from real and true?

[@admaker07]

i love how you handled the manipulative quesitons, Father.

[@kameijohnwilson9208]

Medjugorje doesn't convince me. Just looking at the seers

[@Emschough]

I converted to Catholicism there. Everything else aside, it is a Eucharist and sacrament-centered parish unlike any I’ve ever seen. The reverence for the Eucharist there is beautiful.

[@herheartwilltriumph]

Everything you're saying perfectly describes the experiences of so many. God bless you!🙏

[@maryjoabatt910]

I am going in October!🙏

[@DianneElizabeth64]

Now I want to go

[@bethanyjohnson8001]

I am Catholic today because of a pilgrimage my Mom made to M. with my Grandpa before my birth.

[@TheAmosTree]

You can find good where people pray because Jesus said where 2 or more pray in my name I’ll be there. But the apparitions and messages etc are a different story entirely.

[@mellieg.7543]

I am concerned about the amount of people in the comments begging people to not judge Medegoria until they go there as if we all have the time and MONEY to travel overseas to a place we are not required to visit as part of our faith. With all do respect if I had time and money to go on a pilgrimage it would be to the Holy Land.

[@Charlie25068]

No one has to go there or on any pilgrimage, all they have to do is not make inaccurate allegations about it, and leave it up to the actual Church to make the pronouncements on it.

[@petewhittaker3303]

.

[@charflorida5433]

Mary did appear (and it is approved) in Wisconsin. If you are in the US??? that would be closer to home and doable. Check it out.

[@Breadslav]

Go to Rome, the true home of the faith

[@charflorida5433]

Yes, the Holy Land for sure! But sadly, not now. Our own churches nearby with Jesus present in adoration is a good choice too.

[@sharondelaney8572]

Fr. Pine, you are so good! Thursday, you were absolutely right in telling your youth minister that he was wrong to proclaim Medjugorje is confirmed. I have to believe Our Blessed Mother wouldn't want his disobedience to the church's stance. I'm sad this happened to you. Since 2017 there has been a Papal Envoy present in Medjugorje to oversee the pastoral care that is provided there. Pilgrimages are allowed to be organized. While it's not "approval" it's certainly some oversight that might make you feel less worried. In Medjugorje, they say that where Jesus sets up His tent, the devil sets up his tent next store. Evil things can happen anywhere. The devil hates priests most of all. I went in 1997. I didn't see a single visionary. I didn't see the sun spin. My rosaries did not turn to gold. The miracle was that Our Mother brought me to the feet of her Son, and I was converted there. Wishing you peace.

[@cherylcadigan6086]

Yes maybe Matt can update about the Papal Envoy since 2017

[@Mfrluker]

I’d argue the fact you made the effort to go there showed you were in a conversion state as you were seeking. I’d say you had a conversion before going..

[@sharondelaney8572]

@@Mfrluker there was a stirring for sure, but it was far from conversion. Peace to you.

[@Mike-xp7zv]

first week of apparitons has been "approved" per the Ruini commission

[@sw6155]

Neh, there’s a biiig difference between the Medjugorje seers and Sstr Lucia or Bernadette Subiroux… Every time I read (positive mind you) stories about them and their accounts for the “apparitions” I get nothing but shivers… So… Neh… I’m staying faaaar away from any and everything related to it…

[@frumaatholoid]

Agreed. There's just too much things that make me hesitant about this alleged apparition. The seers don't really seem anything like the other seers of approved visions, where they changed their lives and often became nuns/other religious.

[@Charlie25068]

@@frumaatholoid Not all seers of approved apparitions have beome nuns/other religious, .e.g Our lady of Guadalupe. Our Lady of La Salette is also another good example, and the loves of the seers there are worth reading about. They lead far from perfect lives after their apparitions.

[@frumaatholoid]

@@Charlie25068 Right, not all became religious, but they had a conversion of hearts that changed their lives forever. You see that from everyone from Ratisbonne to Mariette Beco to the Kibeho seers. And even with La Salette, I feel the worse that can be said about the visionaries is they never found their place. Maximin, who much has been written about, died a holy death at least.

[@Charlie25068]

​@@frumaatholoid "but they had a conversion of hearts that changed their lives forever" so exactly what proof have you the seers in Međugorje did not have one and their lives did not change forever?

[@johnrooney507]

The Franciscan who promoted it got laicized

[@frinchk]

I had a deep conversion in Medjugorje when I was 17. I am now 56. I would accept the verdict even if the church would decide against the authenticity of the apparition. I would be sad, but it would not affect my personal relationship to God.

[@petermolloy992]

This is what Medjugorje is all about. So many conversations and so many vocations. Everything else is noise. I’m so happy that you found your true relationship. 🤗

[@anitaklara7428]

Exactly! Actually the Divine Mercy message and picture that Jesus told St.Sister Faustina to spread was forbidden at first too ( her visions were disapproved as false) until it was corrected and approved by the Catholic Church later on.

[@kimlersue]

Your conversion was real and lasting. This is the only way you would say this.

[@lorrainepec7577]

AMEN!

[@quiricomazarin476]

​@@petermolloy992false is false... Lies don't convert...

[@Jayce_Alexander]

I love listening to Fr. Pine. Orthodox Christian here, and love Pints with Aquinas. I pray that through the Holy Spirit Catholic and Orthodox Christians will draw closer to one another. Whenever the rift seems impossible to mend, remember that through our Lord, and his illuminating and sanctifying Holy Spirit ALL things are possible. God bless our Catholic brethren.

[@margokupelian344]

Amen to that, adding the Protestants as well. 🙏

[@choppyaussemsadventuressta3363]

Don’t visit or revisit that wicked place. You will find nothing but lies.

[@sanja5580]

If you are really orthodox, you should know that you can't call Catholics our brothers. They are not. They are heretics and not the part of body of Christ since 1054. There is only one true Orthodox Church and one Body of Christ. I believe you need to urgently talk to Orthodox priest to clarify all these to you. That all being said I hope that one day Catholics repent and come back repentanted to the Orthodox Church. For now, them and others we can't even say that they have a church, it's more a religious organisation. I hope you forgive for being straight forward. ☦️💖

[@boomct8569]

Thank you Jayce_Alexander, beautifully said. You’ve just put the focus back where we need to have it, ultimately on God and His omnipotence and ultimate solution no matter what the situation! God bless you and all here, Orthodox, Protestant, Catholic or just curious. 🙏🏼❤️

[@DW-gf7nd]

Please look into the apparitions and locutions of Vassula Ryder. She is an Orthodox Christian. Her mission from Heaven is 'One Date'. Meaning Jesus is very sad about Christians not having Easter on the same date every year. Her mission is called True Life in God or TLIG.

[@FrankRainis]

It would be interesting to request Fr. RIPPERGER TO COME ON THE SHOW AND SPEAK TO THIS!

[@KyleWhittington]

Spread the word: Fr Ripperger’s bishop said no

[@zenuno6936]

@@KyleWhittington said no about going to Pints?

[@Mike-xp7zv]

the greatest exorcist in the church history was a big fan of Medjugorje

[@JenniferWilliams-jy7rz]

He has spoken to this, I'm sure you could find it as I don't want to try and quote him.

[@lucianaletilic6956]

I live near Međugorje and I went there a lot of times. My personal opinion is that main fruits of Međugorje are: Eucharistic devotion, conversions, numerous religious vocations. I don't go there to see miracle of the Sun or some spectacular things. I don't know any of Međugorje visionaries. I go there because it's a place of confession, fast and prayer. They organize 24 hour Adoration on every 25th day of every month. There are Holy Masses on different languages every day. There is Way of the Cross devotion each Friday.

[@donnabodin3494]

You are so blessed to live close to Medjugorje!!!!

[@lxportugal9343]

Would you say the Co id has anything to do with the 1st secreat?

[@fool1shmortal]

What would happen if the Pope denied its supernaturalness and permission to go there. I think he or a predecessor should have tried that experiment. The Devil just needs to embed one error amongst a lot of seeming goodness. God can bring good out of evil, but it does not make it good that the evil of disobedience is happening. We are a faith of faith (all of it) and reason; not feelings. You do not do or approve of wrong that good may come if he coming of it.

[@glennlanham6309]

Hvala ti

[@donnabodin3494]

@@drjanitor3747 Have you been there? You should go and then give your opinion.

[@radiorain5665]

Hey Thursday, I really hope you read this comment. I wholeheartedly support your skepticism. I know people who were ostracized for their skepticism of the Legionaries Of Christ, and we know how that turned out. As Catholics we do not need to blindly accept every alleged apparition, and the people who become aggressive toward skeptics might want to search their hearts to discern whether this stems from a narcissistic self-righteousness. I'm paraphrasing Trent Horn or Matt (I can't recall which one); We should not condemn Catholics for their diversity of opinion where the Church allows it.

[@steele8280]

It bears reminding, and I don’t think it came up in the conversation, that no Catholic is obliged to believe in any Marian apparition, even if the Church has approved it. So even if the Church approved Medjugorje, we would still be free to believe or disbelieve it. In the end, I don’t know what to believe, so I try not to pay it too much attention, but rather focus on growing in Christ in whatever way I can.

[@MS-ez1pe]

Interestingly, I’m sure many would still be able to show evidence that the LOC and Regnum Christi also managed to produce good fruits too..

[@calson814]

​@@steele8280True. Instead all catholics should focus on the Eucharistic Lord.

[@cherylcadigan6086]

After returning from Medjugorje, my love for the Eucharist grew and praying increased!

[@SEANPOL203]

The Devil is everywhere, and you can be sure Satan wants truth to be called a hoax & vice versa . I have been to Medjugorie and am absolutely certain Our Lady is there , unless it is Satan who is behind all the good supernatural occurrences that have happened there

[@zenuno6936]

If there were ongoing messages by the Blessed Virgin, all Catholics would wait eagerly for the next one. Yet, every month we get a generic message from Medjugorge that anyone could make up.

[@Charlie25068]

They are not generic if you read them from the heart and in context. In our family our own Mother patiently told all of us all growing up every day, over and over, to clean our rooms. It took years before we finally got it. Protestants always claim the Rosary and the Hail Mary is the same "generic" prayers over and over. They simply don't get it.

[@irishandscottish1829]

@@Charlie25068oh stop it there have been far to many doctrinal errors in the messages! If you know your theology you would know this

[@ivy-rosemccall211]

@@irishandscottish1829 iris you make all these false allegations. Get over it. Go knit a teapot cover

[@johnkehoe1067]

I have always thought this. I'm neutral veering on not authentic.

[@anguslean4058]

Its a Satanic Hoax Google - The Stark Truth About Medgjugore After reading ask yourself why didn’t the Church shut this down right away.

[@kimberlymccoy2508]

I had my conversion from a horrible brokenness and drug addiction from Our Lady of Medjugore

[@anthtan]

That's great. Could you share in more detail?

[@tdeo2141]

Thanks be to God, sister 🙏🏼

[@barbaramazzocca4605]

Actually, conversion comes from the Holy Spirit. Possibly through Mary's intercession.

[@gabolujan3109]

But this is a fake apparition. So you converted due to your own power.

[@tdeo2141]

@@gabolujan3109 then you have not even watched the video. It clearly states within the first 5 minutes that at least the first apparition was approved as a supernatural phenomenon. Try watching the video if you’re going to write a comment.

[@sally.g.]

A few years before the apparitions in Medjugorje began, Padre Pio had told a group of pilgrims who were visiting him from the diocese of Mostar: “The Blessed Virgin Mary will soon be visiting your homeland.” This was reported by the BBC journalist Mary Craig in her book A spark from Heaven

[@petermolloy992]

Thank you Sally. I have huge admiration for Padre Pio and he was an incredible person. He is on the outside of my Rosary sack and he is with me all the time.

[@mariaelviraful]

Padre Pio’s gift of prophesy and proximity to heaven while on earth never ceases to impress me. He also told Karol Wojtyla as a young priest that he’d be Pope one day. Mind blowing.

[@SEANPOL203]

sally, that’s amazing, I’d never heard that before.

[@danoberweiser93]

Yes, prior to St. James Church being built. Padre Pio allegedly said that they needed to build a big church as Our Blessed Mother will be visiting there. At that time, in the 60's, Medjugorje was a small village and didn't need a church that big. But these Franciscan Priests listened to Padre Pio, and I, for one, am glad they did. 😇✝️❤️

[@fool1shmortal]

The bishops have the day regardless how holy a person Padre Pio said. Maybe, to give the benefit of the doubt, she did appear about several times. Mary would not have the kids disregard the bishop of say all religions please God.

[@philippbosnjak4183]

Apparently they now have a 30ish year old parish priest and people are amazed by him. By the way I say it 1000 times Medugorje has the biggest confessional in the world the devil hates it for sure.

[@jherforth]

I'm with Thursday on this. All I can say is I'm suspect and not for me.

[@Mike-xp7zv]

have you been there? read all the available books and studies from clergy, secular and medical experts?

[@charflorida5433]

@@Mike-xp7zv Best to read and listen to both sides. Quite eye opening. I understand now why the Church has not approved it as an apparition site. On the other hand, good things can happen at any retreat anywhere.

[@sylvieb623]

Thanks for this discussion! My husband and I visited Medjugorje twice, from Canada 🇨🇦 through an Irish pilgrimage tour 🇮🇪 . Going up Apparition Hill while quietly praying the Rosary was a powerful experience. Thinking about thousands of people climbing Cross Mountain, on such difficult terrain, was a reminder of our Lord's Passion, and of solidarity with believers from all over the world. If the devil was trying to fool everyone at the beginning, I think it backfired! If the Church pronounces herself on this matter in a negative way and this causes people to doubt their faith later, Our Lady can call her children back to Jesus.All those Confessions, all those Masses, all those Rosaries prayed, all those Stations of the Cross... these will not be in vain.✝️❤️🌎🌍🌏

[@elainezimmer6084]

Amen!

[@samuellopez7826]

I’m with the guy behind cameras, it shouldn’t be about feelings

[@Charlie25068]

Yet the guy interrupting behind the camera who calls himself "Thursday" is all about feelings and made inaccurate claims about Medjugorje, thankfully Fr. Pine very patiently and gently corrected him.

[@kellysoo]

Feelings are not evil. Feelings are important as we are human beings. Nothing wrong to based your judgement on feelings. Just make sure is not feelings alone. We are human with soul. Pray that God The Holy Spirit guard your soul. Be obedient and teachable.

[@godsgospelgirl]

Thursday makes some good points. If the negative fruits don't apply to the situation the good fruits shouldn't either.

[@Charlie25068]

That wasn't the actually point, the many millions of good fruits far out way the allegations of bad fruits.

[@irishandscottish1829]

@@Charlie25068 that was Father Pines point! He made excuses why we should disregard the bad fruits and only take the good. It doesn’t work that way

[@Charlie25068]

@@irishandscottish1829 He didn't, he called for proper rational perspective

[@charflorida5433]

@@Charlie25068 Good fruits can happen at any shrine or retreat. The question is, did Mary appear there? So far, the Church has not approved this claim.

[@herheartwilltriumph]

This is the best articulated and nuanced defence. Thank you so much Father Pine, you are in our prayers! Thank you Matt for being so open!🙏

[@michaeldepauw7446]

I agree with the gentleman in the video with concerns about Medjugore. I’ve been told by Medjugore adherents that those who don’t believe in the visions are losing graces. In addition to this type of fanaticism, there are many red flags surrounding Medjugore and the messages for me to not be wary. I already have a strong devotion to Our Lady (Guadalupe, Lourdes, Fatima, Akita, etc.). With the limited time that I have, I will devote myself to these approved apparitions. More importantly, I will devote myself to the authentic, timeless teaching of the Church, to Our Lord in the Eucharist, and to the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. I do not condemn anyone for having a devotion to Medjugore, but neither do I recommend it. God bless you all!

[@WickedFelina]

Read up on the long, full version of the excommunicated priest. He is insignificant, and short lived. He really wasn't apart of the visions. He was like a taxi driver after the inception of the apparitions, then disappeared. It isn't a "fruit" of consideration.

[@JJ-zr6fu]

Wait the priest who was there at the beginning life didn’t lead to holiness rather a formal declaration from the church he’s spiritually dead. And you want to brush that off.

[@myfakinusername]

@@JJ-zr6fuJudas was there from the beginning and he betrayed Jesus...Do you want to go to the same conclusion??

[@anguslean4058]

Here is the truth about Fr Vego Viscka no less then 13 times in her diary said OUR LADY SAID FR VEGO IS INNOCENT OF ALL CHARGES. Viscka also said that the then Bishop better change his mind or he will suffer the wrath of Our Lord & Our Lady They were all liars from the beginning and are still liars today It is a Satanic Hoax.

[@ChachiTelevision1979]

I had some skepticism of Medjugorje, but Fr. Pine brought a bit more into perspective. No matter what, I’ll submit to the magisterial teaching, but this gives me clarity to the topic.

[@Charlie25068]

Indeed, Thursday claims about Medjugorje were inaccurate, and Fr. Pine gently and patiently corrected them.

[@barbaramazzocca4605]

I know people who have gone to Medjugorje and had wonderful experiences and have gone back several times, but I also know a very faithful Catholic who went and was convinced the entire thing is demonic. Coming from this woman who loves the Lord, loves the Blessed Mother, loves the Church, goes to Mass and prays the Rosary daily, made me look a little deeper. I was disappointed in what I found, because prior to that I totally believed. Then I also started to notice something happening at church (and also mentioned in Matt's video), which is the reaction of people who believe, towards those who question what is happening at Medjugorje. I have seen people be ostracized for not believing Mary is appearing at Medjugorje. What kind of fruit is this? This is a red flag. People seem to get a "high" at Medjugorje. It's like a drug. They go back year after year after year. I never hear about people going to Fatima 9 or 10 times. Frankly, the entire "apparitions on demand" seem too much of a red flag, as well. I've struggled a lot with Medjugorje, but gratefully, no apparition is part of the deposit of faith, and none of us are required to believe any of them, even those that are approved.

[@ivy-rosemccall211]

Oh my Lord! Now that is the most dumbest thing I have ever heard. What a load of !!!!. I have been many times and can assure you that people there pray and just have a smile on their face. Is that what you are saying, that they actually smile there!!!

[@henryspragge]

Well said

[@FlyingTigers-xb4co]

Devotees of Medjugorje have a a quasi-fanatical attitudes towards these alleged apparitions and engage in an almost unhinged reflexive defensiveness, like the 'alphabet culture.' I've seen good people in my parish 'cancelled' from participation in parish activities by these people because they dared question Medjugorje 's authenticity. I've had women shove their rosaries in my face and say "see?!?! They turned to GOLD...that's PROOF!" No, that's alchemy.

[@Charlie25068]

@@FlyingTigers-xb4co The exact same comes for the quasi-fanatical anti Medjugorje brigade. I prefer to follow the actual Church's position, they have been monitoriing and investigating Medjugorje far more intently and carefully than anyone since 1981

[@otrikile]

Oh, there are a lot of catholics going to Fatima amd Lourdes 9 or 10 or even more times... Going regularly for pilgrimage there, organized by priests or even local dioceses (pilgrimages for ill people, for example or couples who struggle to have a baby...)

[@brotherdave2000]

I respect Fr Pine's sense of good judgment here.

[@vonitaesse4307]

What about respecting the good judgment of the firsts local bishops who rules against the supernatural nature of that event. Who should have more authority in your view?

[@maureenavila9970]

What about respecting then Cardinal Ratzinger's letter when he was head of the congregation of the doctrine of the Faith stating that Nothing Supernatural was happening at Medj. E. Michael Jones displayed this letter in his video and I think also in his book? I think it is also noteworthy that the seers in the 1980's said to pilgrims, one of them being myself, that Our Lady told them that she wanted all of them to be priests or nuns but that she wanted them to choose, not be forced as St. Bernadette of Lourdes was. This was recorded in a book by their then spiritual director, Fr. Rene Larenten. None of them became priests or religious. Ivan tried twice in a Franciscan order but could not do the academics. JMJT M

[@BryanKirch]

So obviously false always amazed anyone believes it. There’s zero chance anyone who believes it has actually faithfully attempted to seek the truth

[@Mercian4Christ]

Since the alleged seers have said that the woman appearing to them confirmed there will be a great and permanent sign on apparition hill, visible to all who go there, and this will happen within their lifetime, then I guess time will tell as to their authenticity as they're not getting any younger.

[@gr8bskt]

I would love to see a follow up conversation with Fr. Ripperger.

[@catholicmama1572]

YES! Please!

[@msjackie5668]

What struck me more than anything was the sadness that crossed Fr. Pines face when he heard that Thursday had been asked to leave that speech and says ‘that’s sad-I’m sorry’ (Skip to 21.20) A man of God right there 🤍

[@minorityvoice9253]

Medjugoria is problematic in terms of the apparitions. There are way too many problems with what the blessed Virgin Mary said which were heretical and also what the girls themselves did.The only positive thing that happens is that people of good will go for a hopeful purpose

[@Charlie25068]

If these allegations are true and factual, then why has the Church after it's extensive investigations ruled "undecided" instead of false?

[@l0r3st0]

I think of it this way. It can still be demonic because what it does is divide people in terms of faith. Conversions are too fast. Church authority is not respected. Where are the miracles. To defend Medjugorje is to defend the heresies it teaches. That’s the intention of the devil. To put false words into “Mary’s mouth.” To confuse people. To think that salvation is too easy. Just be good. Just pray. Don’t worry about The Truth. To allow people to go there is to lead them to perdition.

[@vonitaesse4307]

@@Charlie25068Fear!

[@cherylcadigan6086]

I don’t think the church would ever approve until they’re finished. Although if the secrets begin unfolding with the visionary saying the date beforehand that will be a positive sign. The indestructible physical sign left on the hill will probably bring miracles along with it. All in good time

[@SuperSaiyanScandinavian]

you must have commented before watching the video, or you need to clean your ears a bit. Fr. Gregory Pine gave some explanation as to why things may appear heretical. but at the end of the day, so what, you don't have to believe it if you don't want to, but the miracles i've read about, or even Fr. Donald Calloway who's conversion started from simply READING about it and not needing to visit, speaks volumes.

[@An_Drea_Calling]

God bless Father Pine 🙏🏻 I love how he explains difficult concepts in a clear, strutured and logical way. And I love that he speaks as fast as I do 😂 I know so many who came back from Medjugorie completely healed, changed and with a faith and love for Our Lord and Lady that is seldom found.

[@lorrainepec7577]

Amen.

[@TheXone7]

I am sceptical to visions of Ivan. Wherever he travels, wherever he throws an event, there Marry appears always. And this repeats thousands of times. It does not meet any serious apparition criteria. Marry is not someone you can call for an apparition anytime you want.

[@--Mar]

Agree. It's like he has Mary on tap.

[@mathurm100]

the problem i have with Medjugorje is that Mary talks... A LOT. this seems out of place for her. and she doesn't say anything new or unique but still shows up every day apparently.

[@FavianShields]

Yeah I'm still super skeptical.

[@kellysoo]

That’s great. Be a skeptic till it’s proven otherwise. At the same time be prayerful. We have our High Priest in Heaven now. Holy Spirit is our Teacher and Counselor. We are not without help.

[@joeybagodonuts1008]

Sorry, the ability of the "seers" to schedule appearances of the Virgin Mary, the priest leaving the priesthood, and the money making efforts of the "seers" seem like charlatanism to me.

[@Charlie25068]

They don't "schedule appearances", many dozens of Priests have assisted the Parish and Visionaries over the years, as for the financial allegations the same financial allegations were all made and continue to be made about Lourdes, Knock and Fatima.

[@AnalogKid333]

There’s so much more too. One of the “seers” owns a $900,000 house in Massachusetts

[@Charlie25068]

@@AnalogKid333 you tried that one earlier.

[@--Mar]

​@@Charlie25068The point isn't whether the person 'tried' it or not but whether it's true or not.

[@Charlie25068]

@@--Mar The actual point is, when asked, they never provide any actual proof of the allegations, and the Church has investigated all these allegations.

[@tm32156]

I wish they would have discussed the "daily" revelations that are allegedly taking place, in contrast with the initial ones because the Church has responded differently to each. To me that is the more problematic/difficult part especially in light of writings such as St. John of the Cross, St. Theresa of Avila and others who strongly caution of how humans are very poor at discerning things like locutions, etc and can easily be tricked, and that they should generally be ignored. I've not heard of that extra prudential layer being part of the ongoing Medjugorje private revelations - if it is there, it'd add some extra credibility to them. Reporting daily revelations from heaven to the public seems like an odd fruit, not seen in many/any other apparitions. It's different than St. Faustina's diary, which was private and vetted with her confessor, then the Church. The Church has had other apparitions that it has not moved forward with yet (i.e. Tre Fontane approved by Pius XII, who was personally involved) where moving forward was impacted by odd statements by the seer later on. That apparition is arguably very much coming true now and even has a religious order of sisters formed because of it.

[@Charlie25068]

They are not "daily" nor are they "revelations" , and remember, in 1959, the Vatican banned the image and devotion to the Devine Mercy because of a number of factors. Some Polish bishops questioned Sr. Kowalska's claims and were very uncomfortable with the image's similarity to the red-and-white Polish flag. Polish priests were reported to be interpreting the rays as a symbol of the flag. The Church wide ban on the Divine Mercy devotion was lifted on 15 April 1978.

[@kathrynsuch]

They don't have daily apparitions

[@michaelhaywood8262]

@@Charlie25068 One of the last acts of Pope Paul VI [he died a kittle over 3 month later].

[@Goretti11]

Yes, Medjugorje is extremely questionable, I’m unsure if I can post links but I found a website that goes into detail over the “apparitions” many errors. Also in regards to Divine Mercy, I’m currently reading through it. It is extremely problematic. An unknown factor that for some odd reason is not mentioned in the beginning of her published diary is that she burned the OG diary. In her own words it was the work of satan. And as penance Fr Sopocko had her rewrite the entire diary. As I read through her diary, she comes off as a woman who ought to be pitied. It appears she was taken advantage of, by both men and possibly demons. The nature of her supposed visions are very strange. The way that Christ talks with her is odd, almost like human slang. And the visions she received are strange. One in particular involves a nun and it’s disturbing. The way the nun visits Faustina and to the things she tells her make no sense and are in fact anti-catholic. Very suspicious. I have a link to a video that dives very deep into Faustina’s surroundings, the state of her country, the people involved with the image and diary’s promulgation. If links are allowed I’ll put it up.

[@saintlybeginnings]

24:04 - I agree w/ the guy off screen. I’ve noticed similar emotional disobedience to the Church who will chose Medjugorje over the Church, if the Pope declares that it isn’t of God (& honestly, from what I know, I don’t think it is-> the Virgin Mary would not speak heresy, would not okay or encourage disobedience to the Church, nor has she ever just visited every day for years to have girl talk. No vocations, many concerning behaviors by Priests involved in this, a whole lot of money being made w/o any clear charitable use or accounting of how the money is being used. Alleged prophesy given to the ‘seer’ that did not happen (and can not happen), to name a few),. The Priest the guy mentioned that oversaw a campus ministry is the sorts of bad fruit & disobedience being seen all to frequently.

[@jblefevre]

Invite the Medjugorje chaplain to English speaking pilgrims, Fr. Leon Pereira O.P. on the podcast !! He's funny and very down to earth on this subject matter

[@Charlie25068]

He would be a fantastic guest.

[@NA-ls7hi]

I agree get Fr Leon there that would be great

[@Mike-xp7zv]

Brilliant man and priest (who is also a MD) who has the courage to stand up to those who say heretical things and/or, talk out of their a--es as to Medjugorje.

[@Sydroo1969]

Father Pine is so intelligent. Love how he explains to those of us that are not. As a convert I have been on tthe fence about Medjugore. He has me curious about visiting there. Perhaps if I can afford it. I really want to visit Lourdes first.

[@daveerhardt1879]

I don't believe in this so-called apparition.

[@Charlie25068]

That's ok, it's the actual Church's opinion that counts.

[@AnalogKid333]

YoUrE a bAd cAThoLiC then. That’s what I’m always told when I expose this hoax.

[@Charlie25068]

​@@AnalogKid333 I wouldn't call you bad, I'd just call you mis-informed and out of step with the actual Church's official investigations and pronouncements of "undecided".

[@anthonymurray8844]

I think the concern with Medjugorje is that the fruit isn't actually known yet. For people who had an experience and converted from it, it remains to be seen if their faith is in Christ and the Church or is it in the apparitions, and if the Church one day says it is false, will those people reject the Church and go their own way? By no means do I have anything against someone who believes in the apparitions and promotes them (in accordance with current Church pronouncements), if people are edified by Medjugorje and give glory to God then I'm happy. I only hope that the foundation of their faith is not in Medjugorje and is in the Church, and that the fate of Medjugorje has no bearing on their relationship with the Church and Christ. I mean I hope that Our Lady has appeared there and given graces to all the pilgrims, that would truly be something to marvel at and give glory to God for. Though I'm sure even if she hasn't been appearing there that those who have gone in good faith have received graces also, and should still be thankful to God for what he has given.

[@francescaderimini4422]

I have been called a WITCH to my face because I went to Fatima instead of the Pilgrimage to Medjugorie. I was told by several Priests that there are no GRACES at Fatima only Medjugorie.

[@margokupelian344]

We can’t ignore the fact that there have been hundreds if not thousands of healings both spiritual and physical. How can we explain that. Does Satan want God to be glorified?

[@anthonymurray8844]

@@margokupelian344 With all charity, none of that matters in the end. It's about the salvation of souls and if the Church rejects Medjugorje and that causes people to reject the Church's authority, then yes the devil can put up with people giving glory to God for a short while, as he is playing the long game. Like I said I hope Our Lady has appeared there and given many graces to people, though I don't think it should be the foundation of anyone's faith, even if they converted from an experience there. Our faith should stand on its own without the need for miracles.

[@monicamohan4720]

​@@anthonymurray8844 I agree. The strongest thing that convinces me that Mary has not appeared there is the disobiedence involved with this site from the beginning. I will never believe that Mary would be involved in such a thing.

[@anthonymurray8844]

@@monicamohan4720 True though I still feel a distinction should be made between the seers and the pilgrims. I think many people who have had some sort of experience there tie it to the alleged seers claims and think that makes them legitimate, instead of considering that it was their own faith that healed them. I have doubts about the seers but I've also met many genuine people who have had a miracle occur while they were there and I don't want to discount their experience because of the seers.

[@dellaroggia]

The behavior of Franciscan friars have not been always upright. Messages from Mary each day are just unreasonable with content so obvious. No secrets and significant supernatural events as evidence. Conversions? Everywhere we’re many Christians are praying together , you don’t need the apparition of the Glory Mary for that

[@anniewong1387]

the fruit of bMedjugorje is disobedient, so many approved apprarration, why hv to go there, our faith should not rely on apparration

[@martanieradka4675]

So a few kids went to smoke cigarettes in hiding and presumably Mary appeared to them, and since then she can’t stop talking. It’s odly in a big contrast to any other apparitions! I won’t even mention the priest who left his vocation to live with a woman, oh yet I did as it should ring a bell to any Catholic! So far the Queen of heaven was very modest in her messages but there we have thousands of messages and whoever she is, has power to forgive sins apparently, which we know is in contradiction to what Jesus established and Mary would never tresspass His will. Those among many other details are the root of absolutely understandable mistrust! People say: “ I was converted in Medjugorje” And I was converted by blasphemous protestants, which doesn’t make them right, they were part of my journey, that’s it.

[@CalvinGomes]

It would be useful to have Fr Ripperger (Exorcist) on your show. He believes Medjugorje to have demonic influence. As a Thomist, he also argues that evolution doesn't make philosophical sense. Given he is a Thomist expert, one would think he would make a good guest.

[@monicamohan4720]

This Priest seems very bias in his conclusions.

[@danieldimitri6133]

He's not alone.

[@Belteshazzar0805]

Fr Ripperger has been sadly misinformed about Medjugorje...I lived there off and on for 10 years and in close contact with one of the visionaries. There are so many falsehoods being purported about Medjugorje. One needs to go there and do your research. The Bishops in Fatima, Lourdes and other Marian apparitions were negative in the beginning. Do not underestimate the power of satan....cmon people. Medjugorje has been taken out of the hands of the local Bishop for good...by the Congregation of the Faith (Pope Benedict did this when he was the head as Cardinal Ratzinger). Dont believe rumors or you may find yourself fighting against God as Scripture says.

[@calson814]

​@@monicamohan4720 that's a weak statement!

[@monicamohan4720]

​@@calson814 Even though he read books on the problems of Medjugorje 15 years ago, he didn't bother to refresh his memory on these issues before the interview. Therefore he was not balanced in his information/facts. He said that this alleged apprition falls between "permitted and encouraged ". Where was his basis for that besides his own opinion? He did not bother to mention that, although visits are now allowed there, it is with a stern warning that no impression be given that nothing is approved. Need I go on?

[@minorityvoice9253]

Kudos on Thursday for pushing back. Fr Pine is personally invested in this apparition to be true and good and so he uses his intellect in order to appease and justify his position. Thebfact He said there MAY BE MATERIAL heresy and iablike yeah its all good. And using Judas as an explaination as to why you could accept the spiritual malady of the apparition isnjust really mind blowing.

[@jr4746]

👍 Thursday, 💬 Perhaps, had Fatima's St Francisco & St Jacinta lived beyond their years, I'll take a huge gamble, they would've become Catholic Priest & Nun, as did Lucia It perplexes me more that not one, not 1 of these seers entered the religious life but did however amassed an increased wealth.

[@Charlie25068]

In many previously approved apparitions including Guadalupe, Knock, and La Salette the visionaries did not become Priest's, Nun's or Religious. Read the lives the visionaries of La Salette had after their apparitions, there later lives were nothing like the later lives of those at Lourdes or Fatima, but it does not make the apparitions false.

[@cecelialeroux4408]

The appiritions goon and on and on and on, even when apprirition says this is the last one, disobedience of local prelates, a primary virtue of godly priests, god see all religions as good,( no one true faith in jesus christ?) And many more unmary like comments.

[@Charlie25068]

False accusations. Our Lady of Laus's apparitions went on in France for 53 years and were then approved by the Church 290 years later in 2008.

[@teresasilva8477]

I'm reading a book by Fr Grabrielle Amorth who was a Mariologist prior to his famous career as an exorcist. He was a great defender of Medjugorje and went there several times. It's an interesting book.

[@hamie7624]

Strange, considering the supposed message contains heresy and he apparitions themselves are clearly fake.

[@Charlie25068]

​@@hamie7624 What heresy and what is clearly fake? What's strange is that you claim to know more than the Vatican's chief exorcist who had an intimate knowledge of Medjugorje, and know more than the actual Church who have officially ruled "undecided". Where did you get this "knowlege" from?

[@nathaliedube2913]

What is the name of the book? I don't recall that in the one I have read from Fr.Amorth.

[@teresasilva8477]

@@nathaliedube2913 The original (italian) name is "Un esercito contro il male - La mia verità su Medjugorje" and it was published in 2018. I'm not sure if there's an english edition, I'm reading the portuguese one. The title of the book is "An army agaisnt evil - my truth about Medjugorje."

[@teresasilva8477]

@@Charlie25068 yep, he does not contradict the Church. There's not yet a final decision on the events maybe because it's a thing that's still ongoing. Precaution is advised but the pilgrimages are allowed. I believe it wouldn't be the case if it was considered false for sure. Either way, the book is a series of catecheses given by father Amorth and he speaks on his own name and about his own experience.

[@chuckles222]

Yeah I'm with Thursday on this one.

[@Charlie25068]

Thursday made quite a few inaccurate claims about Medjugorje, and Fr. Pine very gently and patiently corrected him.

[@TrveLatinCel]

​@@Charlie25068 why are you copy pasting this comment?

[@Charlie25068]

@@TrveLatinCel Because what's true is true and Thursday's claims are misleading

[@Charlie25068]

​@@TrveLatinCel Because Thursday's inaccurate claims are misleading people. If the truth has to be repeated, it has to be repeated.

[@AnalogKid333]

One of the “visionaries” lives in Massachusetts. Public records show his house was bought for $835,000 with a current market value over $900,000. Not bad for a kid from Bosnia who started out herding goats.

[@Charlie25068]

I'm sure instead of thowing out slanders, you have actual proof that he embezzled 800k and that his wifes family are not weathly, and that you've written to the Vatican with your evidence.

[@AnalogKid333]

@@Charlie25068I didn’t say he embezzled money. He’s legitimately getting paid to give talks all over the world to desperate church ladies even though it’s all made up.

[@Charlie25068]

@@AnalogKid333 the actual Church has pronounced "undecided", so I'll be following the actual Church's pronouncements not anyone else.

[@AnalogKid333]

@@Charlie25068 I would rather place my salvation in something that’s true. The public revelation of the church and the sacraments. Not paying thousands of dollars to fly to a foreign country to chase after emotions and enrich religious tour companies and “seers” living in big east coast houses.

[@anguslean4058]

Ivan is also a proven liar All the visionaries have been caught in lies It is amazing to me how people make excuses for all their lies It is a Satanic Hoax

[@markoprimorac5291]

I am from Međugorje❤

[@lxportugal9343]

Would you say the 1st secreat has anything to do with co id?

[@Charlie25068]

@@lxportugal9343 I'm not local but no. The secrets are going to publicly announced three days in advance of each one by the way. The first secret is alleged to be regarding a regional event.

[@therese_paula]

I now see how priests should really grow in patience especially when dealing with lay faithful who tends to converse in a rather forceful way (no, not referring to Matt here haha. Matt is a very diplomatic host. His maturity shows.) I love how Fr. Pine so patiently and so clearly addressed the questions thrown to him. God bless you, Fr. Gregory!

[@JJ-zr6fu]

Thursday brought up valid concerns and Pine instead of taking a conversational tone became very authoritative.

[@therese_paula]

@@JJ-zr6fu Fr. Pine.

[@davidrojas6457]

​@@JJ-zr6fuI didn't get that at all. Fr. Pine was simply and clearly stating the points of nuance he has discerned for himself on the topic.

[@halleylujah247]

​​@@JJ-zr6fuFr Pine was respectful. Thursday would agree. Also be respectful his title is Fr.Pine refer to him by the title he has received from Holy Mother Church.

[@michelemcdermott75]

Thursday- we don’t need your still picture popping in and out. 😆😆

[@therese_paula]

😂😂😂

[@garretmccall3241]

I see a lot of people talking about heretical messages of medjugorje. Please bring Father Leon Pereira on the show to discuss these messages. Since 2015 he has served as the Chaplain to the English-speaking pilgrims in Medjugorje. He would be great for a healthy and analytical debate!

[@Charlie25068]

This is an excellent suggestion, he's by far the best expert on Medjugorje from an English speaking point of view.

[@AnnetteCreelman-ui9qz]

I had my conversion and great healing in Medjugorje in 2002 and have returned many many times. My brother who travels around the world, said he never felt peace like he did in Medjugorje, you have to experience it. It is a place of peace and renewal. The renewal of the church that is taking place in Ireland (yes it is starting) is largely due to lay people and priests who have went to Medjugorje! There is so much fruit! I have witnessed miracles in the sun along with 3 friends, we fell to our knees and prayed the Devine mercy chaplet, watching what appeared like the Eucharist pulsate like a heart in the sun it was amazing, but what is more amazing is the changes within hearts.

[@ellamae6360]

God bless you more. Please continue to witness God’s love and Mama Mary’s love for us

[@burkeiowa]

Not too long ago, I prayed for a very specific type of miracle, and would later discover that it took place at a distance from where I was, but within minutes of me praying for it. The odds of mere coincidence seem far too low for me to think of it as anything other than an answer to my prayer. However, when I refer to it, I tend to call it an "incident", or from the perspective of those who witnessed it, where it could be an "alleged miracle". I know the Church makes the official declarations. In this particular case, if they went just off of what was witnessed, it seems less likely to be approved as a miracle, since it would mostly go off the word of a couple people. But rejection would seem to require some sense of attempt at deception, fakery, etc., which I doubt they will find (but I wasn't there). So there's a chance I may forever have a story to tell that might not be officially called a "miracle", but it would be hard to convince me that it wasn't one. Thus, I may forever have to watch my words, unless they actually approve it. In the case mentioned in the video, if there was no direction given by the Church, that would be one thing. But when someone can point out that it is NOT to be treated as if it was authentic and approved, then people should accept that correction. At that point, it's not up to the judgement of a priest, but it's about following the direction of the Church. Someone can be correct, but wait for the proper process to play out. In this case, there has been contradicting thoughts by those who have the authority to weigh in, as was mentioned in this clip. That's all the more reason to be careful in this case, even more than others. Even if it had been a site of something demonic, the many pilgrimages to that site with people praying, confessing, having Masses, etc. could make it a rather holy place where one might expect good fruits. It wouldn't mean the trigger for all of that was good. But it could be authentic. It's just that the Church has a process and we should allow it to go through that process.

[@tinadavy3990]

ABSOLUTELY. Much information and facts not thoroughly discussed. Neither interviewer nor priest ready with highly important facts of why Bishops disavowed. SKIRTING over the many problems surrounding this issue. Follow the Church's lead.

[@MikeyJMJ]

I have a hard time believing the apparitions yet I found Medjugorje to be the most peaceful place on Earth. I certainly felt Our Lady's presence there

[@Charlie25068]

You don't have to believe in the apparitions to get the graces and benefit from a pilgrimage to Medjugorje. Let the Church decide on the apparitions, and the Church's current ruling is "undecided"

[@effygram8159]

It’s been alleged that one of the supposed visionaries in Mej explained why she flinched during an ‘apparition’ by saying that the Virgin almost dropped the baby Jesus. That alone pretty much debunks the visionary aspect of it for me. And I don’t believe Our Lady appears on command. It doesn’t mean the true grace of Our lady isn’t there of course. Perhaps her true presence is there to embrace those who seek her.

[@Charlie25068]

That allegation about Vika has been debunked in the video below by a Croation translator. The Church has examined all these old allegations but the are still being recycled online, as if the Church has never investigated them. kzbin.info/www/bejne/h6jLgZ97fdx_sMU

[@David-_-_-]

A weird thing to consider. Let's say even if the apparitions are a lie. But as a result of the lie you have thousands of people coming to a location and praying and pilgrimiging and entering into mass and adoration with faith. Would not the faith and prayers of the people transform the space ? I can enter a space and "feel" spiritually what's been happening there. Like if I pray and worship in a space repeatedly it changes the space. I've entered into other spaces where violence drugs worldly music sexual imority have taken place and it creates this horrible darkness. Even if the apparitions were initially a lie the result is it's created a sacred site where people pray and devote themselves to God.

[@Mike-xp7zv]

again, the Ruini commission approved the first week of the apparitions(they wont be decided upon in totality until they finish, just like all apparitions), Sad that most dont know this including thousands of priests

[@TotusTuus8]

Take this however you want to. I converted to the faith and had my friends and priests at that time tell me that I need to go to this apparition site and experience the blessed mother. So I began to plan my trip there. Everything I did at the time I brought to Christ in the blessed sacrament. While I was in adoration the Lord spoke very clearly to me. He said, “The father of lies can mask as light, even my mother. This is not my mother.” It was really clear for me personally. That evening after leaving adoration when I went on KZbin a video popped up of one of the seers saying that she thought the blessed Virgin was going to drop the baby Jesus. It confirmed for me what I heard that night. So the Lord lead me and introduced me to Fatima. So I believe Christ is giving people many graces there bc of His sacraments, not because it is real.

[@monicamohan4720]

For several years, I only thought that I was defending Our Mother's honor, when I conversed/disagreed with those who believe Medjugorje to be an authentic apprition of Mary. I do not believe it to be so. It is not an approved apparition nor have any messages/miracles/cures been approved. Much misinformation is mindlessly spread in regards to the alleged support of certain leaders, past and present, and the false claim that the first seven messages/days were approved. This commentary is about what I have experienced in relation to certain of those who support Medjugorje through my interactions with them. I believe through these (mostly) written interactions that their Faith is being eroded. I will demonstrate that concern on my part through the remainder of this piece. Some supporters of Medjugorje, when they hear that some say that Medjugorje is not of good supernatural origin, put forth the following statement, "Why would the devil allow conversions at Medjugorje?" Please consider how theologically unsound that statement is. The devil doesn't "allow " anything. Only God can allow evil - but then only/always for a greater good. Overlooking conversions in order to get a good protestant mindset into the supporters (ex.Medjugorje is valid because I think/feel/experience - therefore we disregard the rightful authority of The Church) might be part of the devil's plan, but he has no power over God's will. This erroneous mindset that the devil "allows" implies that he has power that he simply doesn't and that God just stands helplessly by. Quite a good trick of the devil...attributing power to the devil that he doesn't have and denying the power that God does. Also, to assume what the devil is up to at any given time is folly and arrogance. He is a fallen angel - far above us in intellect and abilities. We, of course, know his end game. Generally though, if we assume what he is doing with one hand, he is probably doing something that we don't see with the other. Yes, the devil does have power over the material world to the extent that God allows. Any "golden Rosaries", etc., can have different explanations. I am not discounting here the advanced knowledge of Saints and exorcists in relation to the devil. In this phamplet, I am not dismissing the true conversions that happened at Medjugorje (although conversions rarely happen in an instant). God is not bound by whether an apprition is approved or not. For those that seek Him with a sincere heart, He is quite generous. In fact, God can and does bring good out of evil all over the world every day. He is quite good at it - and to be frank, sometimes, and in some places, He has little else to work with. Conversions happened in consentration camps. Those camps were pure evil. It could then be said that God is turning the tables on the devil. In other words, you bring them here (Medjugorje) , I will convert them. You force them there (consentration camps), I will convert them. I would like to discuss (and I know that I am not the only one who has experienced this) verbal attacks made against me for my non support of Medjugorje and simply stating the status of Medjugorje withinThe Church. These attacks can be quite vicious and without reason. The first attack is that I don't love or know Our Blessed Mother because I don't believe an apprition that has not been approved by The Church. Let that sink in - especially in light of the fact that we are not even bound to believe those appritions approved by The Church (some say there is a nuance as regards to Fatima, however I don't speak when I am not knowledgeable).The second attack is that I am somehow working with the devil because I (again) don't believe an apprition which has not been approved by The Church. These attacks generally come after I present solid proof of the misinformation which certain supporters have believed and spread regarding Medjugorje. They then resort to personal attacks. Why this type of reaction towards me for simply stating the facts? If someone approached me and stated their disbelief in Fatima, I would first ask them if they would like to discuss the subject. If not, ok. My Faith does not depend on what they believe. I believe it (as I do other approved appritions) . I would not become angry nor spiritually abuse them. I don't need them to believe what I believe. I believe it. Why then is their reaction as such that it enters into spiritual abuse towards me? Herein lies one of my gravest concerns regarding some who support Medjugorje. Their Faith is now dependent on Medjugorje being valid - rather than on The Deposit of Faith. Medjugorje and those related "experiences/feelings" are now their God. As a side note, being around large groups of people who are praying and receiving the Sacraments can be very uplifting and can be experienced all over the world. Too many have foolishly only attributed these good things to Medjugorje. In all fairness though, a certain amount of parishes are lacking in the presentation of the true Faith, therefore enabling people to seek these things elsewhere. When those who believe this event(s) to be valid point to certain conversions amongst their families and friends which they claim happened at Medjugorje, I ask them if they can give the Glory to God and credit to the Sacraments for these conversions. Only one has (grudgingly) admitted/repeated that. They say that it is "Medjugorje ". When I tell them that Jesus (and Mary always by His side) is as close as the nearest tabernacle, they won't even respond. They just have to keep saving for their next trip to Medjugorje. As you might have grasped, my concern here is an eroding of believe in The Real Presence. In the previous paragraph, I alluded to my next concern. This concern involves the implication that, because I have never been to Medjugorje, I couldn't possibly know if it is a valid apprition. In other words, the truth depends on my "experience/feelings ". Good luck with that. I know far too much about the history/facts/status of Medjugorje. I will stick with the facts. In addition, I, like everyone reading this, has the effects of original sin. We are not perfect in our ability to discern these situations flawlessly - nor have we the authority to declare this authentic unless we are one who has been given the authority within The Church. I will even submit that if we use language which states that, "Our Lady of Medjugorje said" , or "Our Lady said..." in regards to alleged messages at Medjugorje, we are implying that Mary is appearing there - which is putting ourselves above the authority of The Church which has not declared this to be so. Scary thought. Sadly, even some Priests unwittingly spread misinformation about Medjugorje. I am not calling anyone who believes in Medjugorje arrogant. What I am saying is that, to base our belief in an event(s) strictly on how we "feel" and what we think (which can be very flawed reasoning) is to make the assumption that we do not have the affects of original sin. We are perfect in our ability to determine truth. We don't need The Church. Yet another excellent trick of the devil. At this point, I would invite anyone who seeks the truth of the history of these events at Medjugorje to seek out the truth/history of these events. Repeating rumors/tearing down the reputations of previous Bishops who did not believe this event(s) to be of good origin is not proof. Utube videos which report everything short of seeing Mary in one's cornflakes is not proof. Information on sites which profit from people's trips to Medjugorje are not a valid source. Mostly though, please note that, if your Faith is now dependent on whether Medjugorje is an authentic apprition, be concerned, be gravely concerned about your Faith. At this point, I am sure that many reading this who have done their research into Medjugorje would like me to point out the many serious concerns about Medjugorje which they have. I understand this. That is not the purpose of this phamplet however. Those who truly seek the truth will look seriously into this. My purpose in writing this phamplet is to defend not only Mary's honor first and foremost - as the Immaculate Conception would never be involved with anything that I believe involved such disobedience - as one who stood, yes stood below that cross witnessing the greatest act of obedience - but also to raise the alarm as to what I have experienced with some supporters of Medjugorje. It is something to be considered before trips are taken there.

[@irishandscottish1829]

This. As a child I was also pointed to the Tabernacle by my parents and to never forget Our Lord dwells there and if I ever need Him to flee to a Catholic Church where I can sit with Him and tell Him anything and everything - all my sorrows and joys. Visiting apparition sites is lovely - I’ve been to Knock. However hinging your whole faith on one (esp one that hasn’t been approved) is a recipe for disaster as these people have 3 options if it is ever declared false 1- accept it and move on 2- deny the churches authority and keep believing in it this separating themselves from Christs bride 3- enter a state of despair where they abandon God completely because their whole faith based on an apparition rather than on the Trinity

[@monicamohan4720]

@@irishandscottish1829 Great points! What is sad is that this has been allowed to go on for so many years, therefore enabling more and more people to become possibly indoctrinated into a false theology.

[@eilinglynn4702]

Very balanced view . I agree with all the points raised. People get very emotionally tied to Medjugorje and will not listen to any issues of concern. I was one . I went there four times, the last was with eyes more open and I saw things very differently. In the meantime I had been in contact with Fr Philip Pavich now deceased, RIP. Fr Pavich who had been a much after confessor for years in Medjugorje. Fr P told me he dropped everything when ministering at lake Tiberius on hearing of the alleged apparition and went to Medjugorje. As time went on from his own experiences and the alleged messages hr became that it was not Our Lady appearing there. He found it very difficult to get away from the grip of Medjugorje and eventually got home to Chicago . One other thing -following the Cardinal Ruini commission that found that the first few apparitions could be said to be supernatural but not the later ones . Do what is this saying . If the later ones are not -is this fraud …

[@Miguel-gx1so]

What about Garabandal ? There are a lot of questions around it

[@cecelialeroux4408]

Padre pio gave his approval to that .

[@BellaJones2010]

Bruh is having a Ken moment. The ongoing badgering at Fr. Pine was nothing I've seen on this site. Aren't you supposed to just look up information for Matt?!

[@jr4746]

I don't doubt the earlier probable apparitions, in all honesty though, I do question Mother's Mary monthly appointment book schedule specially when meeting & facilitating that of the seer.

[@Mike-xp7zv]

Our lady also had an "appointment book" with the Fatima, Akita, Rwanda/Kibeho and Lourdes seers! Francis stepped in it with this really dumb comment

[@richardcutt727]

In September 2004 I had a deliverance at Siroki Brijeg near Medjugorje at the hands of Father Jozo Zovko. A few days later on my return to Aberdeen Scotland I had a strong internal locution in a woman's voice. The locution was immediately repeated. It was two words only. "Kraljica Mira, Kraljica Mira. This changed my life. This is a real apparition of the BVM. Trust me.

[@--Mar]

Fr Zovko does not have a good reputation.

[@SlavkoBanozic]

Queen of Peace! 🙏🏻

[@return2normality]

I'm not a fan of Thursday interjecting in conversations. It comes off argumentatively.

[@Charlie25068]

Worse than that, his repeated claims on the show about Medjugorje were inaccurate. Thankfully Fr. Pine was on, and is knowledgeable enough about Medjugorje to gently and patiently correct him.