Jeigan & Oifaye Tier List

[@DD151]

Doing me proud my boy, putting me above that old poser fart Marcus

[@d3-ll754]

By the Gods, he's not dead! :O Hope you're doing well these days, DonDon.

[@portalguy2246]

Oh hi DonDon

[@ChillstoneBlakeBlast]

The pupil has become the sage

[@tiarabite]

Holy shite the legend

[@Mekkkah]

omg part of my thumbnail has come to life

[@mwolsen96]

I dunno, Sigurd falls off real hard around the end of ch 5.

[@neog8029]

I know, right? He just becomes completely unusable past Ch. 5 smh. Bad unit.

[@maltheopia]

You're joking, but the weapon inheritance system is one of the reasons why Sigurd is so good even after he, ahem, falls off after chapter 5. Slim Sword, Hero Sword, and Silver Sword with 50+ kills is one of the best things you can give your Ch. 6 army and guess who's the best candidate for training those weapons?

[@Emiturbina]

@@maltheopia It's a joke

[@maltheopia]

@@Emiturbina I know it's a joke, but Sigurd is so good that he benefits your army even after he's dead.

[@unknownmgnon]

@@maltheopia spoilers

[@hypertane]

"Havent seen anything this top heavy since Camilla" lmao

[@chaosflash912]

I'm a fan of her, and I can laugh at that kind of joke.

[@jesfest]

Yes, I love this vid description so much lol

[@J-DawgTBH]

I love this joke

[@orelas167]

You mean heavy her battleax falls? ???

[@arzfan29]

The physics

[@lughemblem]

"Not literally, that's what Gunter does." DEAD

[@sawnikk]

i'd love a "shitty early game archer" tier list

[@nathaninnes8945]

F tiers and D tiers

[@sawnikk]

Finalboss711 we can factor in meme potency to get potential higher tier units

[@dinglebutt300]

*obligatory joke about benching rebecca*

[@michaelshan22]

Ronan S++ Tier

[@aprinnyonbreak1290]

I think Ignatz is the strongest horrible archer to have ever lived. D+ tier at least.

[@MugenCannon97]

"Sigurd he never falls off" The Jugdral family barbecue would like to prove you wrong.

[@lpfan4491]

nah, he just demoted and got a weird haircut

[@willo90li]

plus it looks like he aged backwards, maybe that's just me

[@CosmicToad5000]

Love how Sothe, a 17 yr-old is in the “I’M OLD!” tier at the start. Agree with pretty much every pick, only thing I’d question is why Quan/Maybe Zealot isn’t on here. Quan is arguably more of a Jagen than Sigurd, seeing as he “drops off” after chapter 3, and he is a more stagnant character, compared to Sigurd and how he keeps getting better. Zealot is kinda questionable (is there an archetype for slightly late pre promotes like Zealot/Sirius/etc?) though. Glad you’ve decided to make this a kind of series, really enjoy these.

[@aprinnyonbreak1290]

Backup Jaegan? Mini Jaegan? Some new name derived from Mekkah, Waifu, Isadora, or something, meaning an underwhelming prepromote that is still a free stack of great atributes?

[@ZappBranniglenn]

I love how the Jeralt rating is just "I just want him around more." Yeah, daddy come home.

[@domicraft6341]

But he is right though. Same about Rodrigue... Or freaking Judith. Those characters could have been playable at least for a little bit of time. Three Houses is very slow at the beginning and a character who could do at least something good at the beginning is essential for harder difficulties.

[@vbnm7309]

Thank God jertitza is added since he saves my ass in my NG Maddening at lvl 35 with 60 hp

[@domicraft6341]

@@vbnm7309 They could've included him at the release day though. And Ladislava and the other guy as well. And maybe Fleche. Would be four exclusive BE characters to replace Seteth, Flayn, Cyril and Catherine. BE may be shorter but maddening is still hard.

[@Ochain]

"Stat backpack" is the best phrase I've heard in a while

[@malachidurant4262]

Can’t like cause number is at 69

[@NepheneeGyattRizz]

It's got 70 likes so I had to dislike

[@elji-w3k]

First you had the christmas cavs, but you didn’t expect the new year’s paladins!

[@ChillstoneBlakeBlast]

Can't wait for Valentines Pairing Tier List

[@mitchell102]

April Fool's Est Tier List.

[@joshuagabrielcatindig7607]

Merric tiers? Camus tiers?

[@ChillstoneBlakeBlast]

@@joshuagabrielcatindig7607 Merric Tiers would be Cool. Merric, Linde, Azel, Asbel, Lugh, Erk, Lute, Soren, Ricken. All of these are you First Mages that can easily One round/ Deal heavy damage in their join time but are very squishy.

[@goncalocarneiro3043]

Titania is genderbent parallel universe Seth you can't change my mind.

[@jouheikisaragi6075]

Very Seth

[@aprinnyonbreak1290]

Seth can't use axes. Checkmate

[@goncalocarneiro3043]

@@aprinnyonbreak1290 Yeah... But you see... Parallel Universes...

[@aprinnyonbreak1290]

@@goncalocarneiro3043 I've watched enough Getter Robo to know that no number of parallel universes can keep an axe out of the hands of someone who lives by them. I've also watched enough Getter Robo to know that Fire Emblem's 1-2 axes are basically just Getter Robo axes, especially the Tomahawk, so it's safe to assume the same universal laws about axes apply.

[@ronnymahendra9035]

So Eirika is genderbent Ike? :o

[@AlphUsagi]

"Marth" / Lord Tier list would be pretty fun i'd assume, if only for Roy in Roy tier.

[@aprinnyonbreak1290]

I think Erika might be worse. Comparable, if not worse statline, being accurate matters less in FE8 anyways, promotes very late, personal weapon is bleh, gains mounted utility to be fair, but basically nothing else. The only reason people don't tend to notice is because you can switch to Ephraim, or just use her as Seth's power limiter so other people can actually get exp.

[@Hats502]

Idk I personally think Lyn is worse

[@maltheopia]

​@@aprinnyonbreak1290 Both of them are so bad that if I was given the option to bench them at the cost of no longer getting to field Seth/Marcus and eventually Zealot and Percival, I would gleefully take that deal. Therefore Eirika is better than Roy just because I get to bench Eirika much earlier.

[@jouheikisaragi6075]

Eirika is basically Lyn but with higher growths. I argue she's marginally better.

[@Thurmanator]

sigurd is s+

[@TheMadRedHatter]

Inb4 Mangs steals this idea and makes a mini Jagen tier list

[@tri1937]

Doctor Anime i mean the shitposting wars have become who can steal the other persons content better so wouldn’t be suprised

[@boldknock7436]

Ill be honest what is a mini Jagen

[@ChoiceSnarf]

@@boldknock7436 It's an early-game unpromoted unit that starts around level 10, I think. I can't name one for the life of me, though.

[@boldknock7436]

@@ChoiceSnarf That probably be Finn if I'd have to bet, although he starts like level 7 I think.

[@fakesmile172]

@@boldknock7436 FE5 Finn yes. Also Oswin in FE7.

[@ghettospaghetto1627]

5:48 I dunno Mekkah, he completely fell off for me come the end of chapter 5. It was upsetting tbh.

[@ryankeenan4425]

Sup

[@ghettospaghetto1627]

@@ryankeenan4425 Nice seeing you around.

[@kiwi_inc2843]

Jeralt really should've been Three Houses' Jagen considering how tough Maddening's early game can be...

[@Aquilenne]

That's Dedue's job. The man is basically invincible in the early maps, even on Maddening.

[@rueblie2627]

Aquilenne Yeah but there’s 2 routes without Dedue.

[@Quaelandys]

@@Aquilenne Eh. It's true that he takes only about 2 to 3 dmg times 2,but archers and mages can really mess him up

[@arachnofiend2859]

How stupid of an idea would it be for Byleth to start off as a level 10 Mercenary and be a Sigurd type character? I always thought it was weird how the game treats her as this hardened veteran when she starts off as a level 1 commoner like everyone else.

[@owentypebeat2449]

Arachnofiend I feel like Byleth should’ve been a bit higher level, like maybe a level 5 would do, but it makes no sense that they’re lvl 1. Being a lvl 10 might be a bit overkill, but I’d see why they’d do that considering their past

[@michaellove570]

Mekkkah already starting off strong by uploading a tier list as his first vid in the new year. Please continue to do more of these tier lists Mekkkah.

[@cocomilk6684]

"None of them are bad" I would argue that Gunther is pretty shit, especially non Revelation routes. Also, make a mage killer tier list

[@GIR177]

If using him like a standard combat unit in Conquest, then yea, when compared alongside juggernauts like Camilla and Xander or your trained growth units at that point, he's underwhelming, but Gunter actually makes for great utility. His low internal level means he gains experience quickly and can nab skills from the Wyvern line before his stats start to fall off. Shelter, Rally Defense and Lunge are all solid, he flies so he doesn't get left behind, has the weapon ranks to use effective weaponry like Beast Killer and Hammer, and he gives great pair-up bonuses to Corrin with the Wyvern reclass and his personal skill, Forceful Partner. Gunter makes a good support unit at the cost of a heart seal and feeding him some kills in his re-join chapter, especially if your Corrin is male so you didn't have early Jakob around to carry you, who also falls off around this time.

[@arieloliver3219]

I would say he is way better in conquest than rev tho

[@misterbadguy7325]

The S-tier of mage killing? FE10. Nothing killed mages harder than that game.

[@BluBoulzor]

SSSSSS = Ronan F = Everyone else

[@garbageman9999]

Ronan would top that list for sure

[@notcutty6631]

Mekkah: "I know there's some odd picks in here" Siegfried: *whistles innocently*

[@Aurirang]

I wondered about this guy as well. =D Go Home, Siegfried! You're drunk!

[@NinjaAO42]

Doesn't Siegfried fulfill the criteria of a Jagen? I mean I heard he falls off really hard after Chapter 24

[@moosegoose3159]

Est tier when?

[@mrbilter83]

on April's fools prolly

[@moosegoose3159]

But I need my Nino fix now!

[@maltheopia]

Only our Lord and Savior, Jerome, deserves anything higher than a C tier in this ranking. FE1 Est and FE8 Ross can sit on those tiers by themselves.

[@UrinalPissbert]

maltheopia I wouldn’t consider Ross an est because he joins so early, Amelia and especially Ewan on the other hand definitely are est units!

[@maltheopia]

@@UrinalPissbert I can respect that definition of Est, if only because without Ross and Jerome it makes the archetype look even shittier than it already is.

[@ninjacell2999]

Where's the lightning sword from Echoes?

[@SPZ-gv2on]

Okay there is literally no reason to not use that the whole game. Even growths>bases people can't argue with that.

[@kaelanmcalpine2011]

I was thinking Clive, I mean, he doesn't come promoted but he works the same pretty much. I'll just be sure to start benching him when his lover comes around.

[@mininini1451]

Lightning Sword best Jagen. I had Kliff use it like the entire game, hardly even fell off since it got to the point where it just left something as ez pickings for another, and it can't even die smh

[@korinoriz]

@@kaelanmcalpine2011 Clive isn't a Jagen at all. He's just a "normal" unit who's notorious for being "5/10 not good not bad" unit. He's not dead weight but he's not doing much. Clive is just really weird.

[@korinoriz]

#gaidendiditfirst

[@TazmaniacYT]

Jagen tier list... doesn’t start with Jagen

[@appelofdoom8211]

Literally unwatchable

[@CirnoPerfectFreeze]

M i n i J a g e n

[@ji6134]

You forgot about the mini jagens!!!!!

[@KamikonoHakai]

I'm pretty sure he is just saving those for a separate mini/semi - jeigan tier list.

[@misterbadguy7325]

Remind me, what exactly is a mini-Jagen?

[@tri1937]

KamikonoHakai no he’s not. to mekkah the concept of a mini jagen is heresy

[@chrisf.9595]

@@misterbadguy7325 Mini-Jagen is an archetype that Mangs created referring to the units that join early that are unpromoted, but have better stats/starting level Example of those kind of units: FE5 Finn, FE6 Dieck, FE 10 Nolan (It's not really an archetype, it's kind of a joke to trigger Mekkah)

[@CosmicToad5000]

Nah, that’s gonna be Mang’s shitpost response to these tier lists.

[@InterGeekStudios]

Personally Mekkah I’d put Frederick in S tier just for how vital he is in lunatic and lunatic + Gunter can go into F tier for being generally useless aside from avatar pair up bonus

[@uhhhhism]

Frederick is essential in order to carry the run until Robin goes beastmode.

[@appelofdoom8211]

Literally essential it's actually almost (if everyone misses maybe) impossible to beat lunatic+ without him. you all the other games without jagens even if it would be more difficult. Not so with frederick.

[@YOSHIERIDER]

@@appelofdoom8211 Fred is amazing in part1, but kindof sucks for the rest of the game. Others on this list don't drop off so hard. You do need him to survive the first 4 or 5 chapters.

[@InterGeekStudios]

YOSHIERIDER but he’s still there until robin can hold their own as the support bonus so I’d say bottom of S is fair personally

[@blooper5li]

Agreed. Until the rest of the group can catch up, Frederick is mandatory to use.

[@limitlessapocalypse2702]

I am not surprised Mycen was not on the list, though good list Mekkah, love the work.

[@ToastMcGhost11]

I’d love to see the “Bases over Growths” Champion rate the Est Archetypes...particularly Miranda from Fe5.

[@salem1451]

Kane Layng Everyone goes into F/E tier

[@maltheopia]

Carrion is the only Est archetype that's worth a damn. Miranda would barely squeak by into B-Tier because the bonus she gives to Accost-user Conomoor is just that damn strong, but it requires you to go through B-route, so, nice try Miranda but no thanks.

[@lindakan9809]

Honestly who doesnt get schroff

[@CosmicToad5000]

FE5 Sara is considered an Est by many people, and she’s pretty much the best staff user in the game if you disregard availability.

[@lpfan4491]

the highest person on the est tierlist will be shadow dragon wolf. he breaks all the rules of the archetype aside from "lowish bases,good growths" and is better for it

[@misterbadguy7325]

In FE1, funnily, I would say the actual king of prepromotes is Wendell, even though he only shows up in Chapter 5 instead of Chapter 1. The thing about FE1 is that the magic stat doesn't exist; mages rely solely on the base Mt of their tomes, but in exchange, Resistance isn't really a thing either. So really, the only stats that matter for a mage are Speed (to double more often) and Weapon Level (to use strong tomes). And Wendell's Speed is 14, in a game where the cap is 20, and his Weapon Level is 10, with a 70% growth. So he can use all the strongest tomes at base, double basically everything, and because Weapon Level was one stat and Wendell's a Bishop, he can use the best staves, too, which includes FE1 Warp. He can actually kill friggin' Gharnef with just his bases, Starlight, and a vulnerary. Think if Pent showed up at the same time as Lyn, and you've got an idea of how strong FE1 Wendell is. Jagen, on the other hand... yeah, you did a pretty good job of summing him up. FE1 is mostly a game where once your units hit a certain threshold, they can basically handle anything. Jagen is, like... not far away from that point, and feeding him a statbooster or two can push him over the edge into ORKOing the rest of the game (though he needs it, because his highest growths are 10%). But he's also a little like Arran in that the starting squad of FE1 is really strong: you have Marth, who does effective damage to 80% of the enemy roster, Caeda, who can fly and wield a silver lance at base, and Cain and Abel, who snowball ridiculously easily and start with stats only separated from Jagen by one or two points, so he doesn't really stand out much in that early stage and gets lapped pretty quickly. I would say he fits into very low A, bordering on B.

[@allenkeettikkal3149]

Jagen has a slightly higher amount of movement than Cain and Abel. This is pretty big as Promotion items are pretty scarce and are hard to obtain without going out of your way to getting them. I would say that Jagen really only falls off by Chapter 18 where the game gives you more prepromotes to work with.

[@doritogames800]

Adding Jeralt to this list makes me wonder: what FE8 would be like if Orson stayed with you for the whole game? Seeing as how his stats are very similar to Seth's, imagine having two jeigans at your disposal. it would probably be completely busted.

[@kylestillwell7031]

“i won't be considering bonuses they get just because of the mechanics of the game; I'll be comparing them against their performance against their peers” “Well Titania gets access to super-Canto and the Knight Seal which weren't available in FE7, so that makes her better than Marcus” °_°

[@sanoga2011]

Well there is the Original Jeigan, his demigod version Marcus from FE 6&7, more proeminently on 7, and the god of Jeigans Seth, to which no one really compares. As always impressive work there Mekkkkkah. Edit: After watching, saw i forgot the jesus on wheels while aflame tier Jeigan/Main Lord Sigurd haha,he honestly is so good he didnt feel like a jeigan.

[@illialidur8244]

“... and Ronan, who is not very strong...” Mekkah makes tier list, Mekkah makes chart, but at the end of the day, he be breakin my heart!

[@SmashBros2009]

Ahh Frederick, the lifesaver on early-game Awakening ESPECIALLY on Lunatic+. Without him that mode is basically unbeatable at the beginning.:P

[@rhoa3952]

If he waited a lil bit longer he could have added Zayid from Vestaria Saga, he's on the same lvl as Dagdar and stays good through the entire game

[@swordflay7384]

“Gunter takes the fall off later literally” I actually lol’ed omg mekkah

[@jedisalsohere]

Timestamps: Sigurd: 3:04 Oifey: 6:05 Eyvel: 9:00 Dagdar: 11:24 Marcus (FE6): 12:53 Marcus (FE7): 14:17 Seth: 16:18 Titania: 18:14 Sothe: 20:14 Jagen: 22:20 Arran (both): 26:01 Frederick: 28:23 Gunter: 30:20 Jeralt: 31:05 Siegfried: 33:09

[@Zemuzu22]

I really like these. You should definitely do one on earlygame archers, because that sounds like it's be hilarious.

[@owentypebeat2449]

Agree with what you said about Jeralt, Golden Deer and Black Eagles really need someone to tank some hits, luckily Blue Lions have Dedue for that, but those other houses really lack a lot of tankiness

[@lovabletroll2212]

Putting Gunter in B tier is generous. He has some utility due to the pair up mechanics, but once you have literally anyone else it's bench time. I think Camilla is more of the Jeigan of Conquest, and she'd be solidly in A tier at least.

[@SuperZez]

Gunter honestly barely functions as a Jagen. Camilla would have suited the role far better, since you get her super quickly into Conquest. Actually, Jakob would have been far better suited to this as well, since he joins at the same time as Gunter.

[@lpfan4491]

jakob and felicia are better jagens than gunter,yes(jakob more than felicia because she hits like a little girl)

[@AwakeTheFall]

I think he used him because he is a Jagen is the Revelation route. He’s more of a regular unit in Conquest.

[@Hats502]

I’d think Jakub would be the Jagen. Camilla joins too late and doesn’t really fit the story requirements of a Jagen. She’d be instant S tier though, she’s busted(y) as fuck. Jakub is pretty good all game, he’s never op like some of the Jagens are. He kind of reminds me of a nerfed Oifey, early game he’s one of your best units but later on falls down the ranks. He’s never bad but he’s no longer one of your go-to units

[@matthewcoyle4131]

I really want an Oifaye Avatar. Like they could do a game with a second generation and you're not actually a playable unit until the second and in the first you're more like a child version of Mark.

[@eliwoodmorelikeeligood5485]

Avatars are a mistake

[@matthewcoyle4131]

@@eliwoodmorelikeeligood5485 I beg to differ. I just think they need to be handled better. I think Robin was a great base but just needed to be less powerful and not a secret god dragon and not the main character. But then I'm sure you don't give a damn you just wanna complain about the new games. *How's Mark doing by the way Eliwood?*

[@simshadows]

FE7 Marcus is just amazing!

[@ziggymcdougal]

Personally I would put Book 2 Arran below Gunter. In both CQ and Rev Gunter has flying reclass and all the pros that come with it along with easy shelter dancing strats which can help in maps in low turning maps like rev C8 or cq C24. The issue with Book 2 Arran, and FE3 cavs in general, is the amount of obstructive terrain that screws them over. Early on this isn't much of an issue but it really starts to bite from C9-16 and towards the lategame he's not really doing anything as most maps are both indoors and warpskips anyways.

[@allenkeettikkal3149]

Arran is pretty decent early on because he is one of the few units that can reasonably take on the Draco Knights in Chapters 2 and 3. He also gets you the secret shop in Chapter 5. He obviously gets overshadowed by Sirius (who himself isn't exactly that great either) but is still fine early on.

[@crocodilerock4662]

I’ve stopped benching the jaegens but Marcus is still permenantly my Merlinus guard in FE7 because that support dialogue is just too precious

[@domicraft6341]

I already love this format and can't wait to see a tier list about the Est-Characters :P About the Frederick I agree 100% with you but I want to add a few things about him. Frederick is definitely the MVP in the early game of Awakening, until Robin get's overpowered. And he is still very useful before the timeskip in his Main Class. He can however change into a wyvern knight. And thanks to possible infinite level 1 resets through second seals no one can say that he is an exp stealer... Okay, yes you can still do that. But a lot of people instantly reclass him once they find a second seal to give him more Exp through kills. And yes he will get more but he should stay as Great Knight for a while. Idk when the perfect time for the class change is. But a little bit before the timeskip or after that should be fine. Stahl can also replace him after he is promoted to do Freddys Jobs while he is demoted. If you do that he won't have his promotion bonuses so he loses a bunch of defense. Hovwever he has good growth rates (50% Def and Spd as Wyvern Knight, so he will be able to get up to 5 points in those stats before he can promote again which gives him his lost Def bonus as Great Knight back and helps him with his speed problem a little bit) and because he is in a base tier class he will gain a good amount of Exp as well. Also he should definitly gain enough exp to get Luna before you want to change his class. The Wyvern makes him to a way more mobile unit after the Timeskip. But you could also use him as a simple pair up character to boost the defense of a weaker unit. If you pair him up with characters like Cordelia or Sumia he will be very mobile during the first chapters and gains a lot of speed. And if one of those potential wifes get's stronger they can sometimes switch roles a little bit. They wont be nearly as tanky as Freddy (less HP!) but his bonus makes their defense actually higher then his own, they're fast they can double and they can learn galeforce. I would put Cordelia a bit higher then Sumia since her slightly better physical combat. The Tank-Role will be taken by darkmages like Tharja, Henry and probably Robin during the endgame and in the endgame you probably wont him on his horse again since there are a lot of scary archers. But after the timeskip there are still a lot of situations where you want a physiscal tank. And if you do it right Frederick stays a solid unit for the entire game. And Gunther... IMO he is a very difficult character to rank. He is around when you need him during the prologue and in this one conquest chapter. But in revelations, the only game where he could shine as a Jagen (he even has Fredericks reclass options), he falls of VERY quickly due to horrible growth rates and the existence of Oboro, Xander and all the other Prepromote-Royals. And in conquest you never use him after said chapter... So he is useful in the chapters he joins... but not really after those. Except for Pair Up Bonus... I order a new archetype called "One-Chap-Wonder!"

[@GreyWandererXD]

I would also that Frederick is the only unit that can naturally learn both "Pavise" and "Aegis" to cover up weaknesses and potential growing pains he may have when you reclass him. If you second seal him (into a Knight) he could be an amazing tank that does better than Kellam in the early game, and if you keep defeating enemies, maybe even late game. The problem will Frederick is that people rather use the second seal on Donnell, Robin, or even other units that could potentially have their weaknesses patched by a side class (or for Virion to become a Wyvern Rider). Point is, his main problem is gone after second sealing and will be about getting EXP when possible. Wyvern Rider would be good though as Speed and Defense is nice.

[@sed1589]

31:42 good guy mekkah doesn't spoil the story.

[@ebicbarton]

*wheeze*

[@magicalpwn]

I'd argue that Catherine is the Jagen of Three Houses. Joins the earliest out of all the teachers (chapter 4). With a B support, you can get her by the Miklan difficulty spike

[@jamesfitzgerald8267]

Except if you play the Black Eagles route, she doesn't join until the end of White Clouds if you do the Silver Snow route, or she just doesn't join at all if you do Crimson Flower, probably why she isn't on this list.

[@DancinLumberjack]

I recently beat Thracia 776 with the new translation and I can say for damn sure that Dagdar will last all the way through the endgame. He is only slowed down by siege tomes and ballistaes, but with how many there can be on certain maps, who the hell isn't.

[@SPZ-gv2on]

Agreed. His ability of "I have more health so I will keep smacking you until you keel over" pairs too well with his stats for him to fall off.

[@maltheopia]

If you consider scroll abuse or stuffing someone full of stat-boosters a viable way of playing Thracia (I normally wouldn't, but c'mon, it's Thracia), he's easily S-tier. Accost is just so damn good of an ability AND he has great movement.

[@darklight6921]

no mini jagens?

[@willbow1304]

Hearing Footsteps of Fate in a video is so good! Love it!

[@AAAAAAA-r2kp]

Do the Main Lords!

[@peterenis3507]

Theory Squad damn i would love to see that with 3h out because i haven‘t seen an opinion on which lords are the best

[@portalguy2246]

Peter Enis Edelgard is the best

[@falconstriker87]

Peter Enis all the 3h lords are busted as fuck, they would all be S

[@peterenis3507]

@@falconstriker87 yeah ik but who is the most bustest lol I'm for Dimitri as well (may be baised)

[@antifireemblem8224]

Portal Guy nah claude has the best unique class

[@NinjaSox7]

Do an Est tier list so I can watch you get an aneurism.

[@DrewPicklesTheDark]

Est's that can use staves = D, all others = F. Is what I assume it will look like.

[@aprinnyonbreak1290]

@@DrewPicklesTheDark Sophia tho

[@sigmaklim2532]

Loving these tier list videos, Mekkah!

[@davinw1671]

Sigurd isn't really the Jaigen in FE4 gen 1, it's Quan. Quan fits all of the hallmarks of a Jaigen, from being prepromoted and joining in the first chapter, to limited usefulness in the long run, as he leaves after Chapter 3.

[@Scruffy0105]

A Minerva archetype tier list would be cool to see.

[@aprinnyonbreak1290]

Yeah, but I feel like you could do a Christmas cavalier thing there, and do the younger and older wyvern bros.

[@FarhanH1]

cool vid and mad respect for Eyvel. Sothe is an interesting Jagen because he absolutely carries the dawn brigade but then falls off hard. In a way I think he's one of the best designed Jagen because he exemplifies the power disparity in the two teams, but by the time he joins the Ike squad, his power feels normalized and meh compared to the rest. It really shows how much raw experience and genuine power the Ike team has in comparison to the dawn brigade. It's awesome.

[@PenguinWithInternetAccess]

Wait Why is jeralt here He litteraly got OHKO'D by a boss in the first half of the game You could also put Orson in that tier list considering how useful he can be in speedrunning/clearing the chapter fast

[@Dakotaidk]

Orson is A tier in speedrunning, and meat shield tier in a normal run

[@kellyjohana516]

I think Rodrigue should count as Jeigan

[@PenguinWithInternetAccess]

@@kellyjohana516 He died against a girl that looks like she has 1 strength while facing ten ennemies in the felix paralogue

[@shadedhydra6674]

Hyperius : tactician,marksman and man of culture Jeralt fits the mold of a Jagen archetype pretty well in everything except being recruitable, he's got great stats in the first map, and then decent in the next few, honestly I'd more say Byleth is more the Jagen since in higher difficulties you use them to weaken the enemies for the others to get kills but like Titania and Seth they're great units too. I wouldn't count story events since Sigurd is always scripted to die as well even with his beastly stats, Eyvel is always out of action despite hers, etc.

[@neog8029]

Orson. Godly for speedrunninb. Meat shield + free Silver Sword for everything else.

[@thomasstratton7976]

Aight, so Mekkah has done these two tier lists of mostly cavalier class lines. Furthermore, he has done mostly good units thus far. So to mess with the order of things, let's give him something weird. The Gordin Archetype tier liest.

[@ungulatemanalpha]

But Maaaaaaaaaars!

[@aprinnyonbreak1290]

Younger and Older Wyvern Bros. The second pegasus. The disposable early game priest. Non-first thieves. Manaketes Old men and furries who join for the last chapter. Fighter Bros

[@greenstat1c]

I think it'd be pretty interesting seeing an Est tier list, given how odd the archetype itself tends to be.

[@NieOrginalny]

Also no Jakob/Felicia? They're pretty unusual as far as the archetype goes, but Jakob 1 given a heart seal is super good, and there isn't anyone that can use it better than him early game.

[@papita69xxx]

Agreed. Jakob becomes as good as anyone on this list if you reclass him

[@zant41]

Nowhere near Jeigans lmao

[@sorenfan1964]

^Has probably never played Paladin=>Wyvern lord Jakob

[@zant41]

@@sorenfan1964 Yeah still not a Jeigan. The bases are nowhere near high enough.

[@kaelanmcalpine2011]

Plus, at least in Jakob's case, he can share the same job as his son. Granted I would imagine having a fuckton of strategists would be overkill, but still.

[@seththeace6217]

We all know who's at the top. Seth. After watching: or second.

[@Edgeperor]

To be fair, who could guess that Sigurd would be on the list?

[@drjbobo]

The next sorta obvious ones would be like "Lords/Avatars" and then an "Est/Trainee" tier list. I'd like the Est tier list just to see you talking about growth units.

[@FiboSai]

I think you are underselling the fact that FE12 has reclassing while FE3 doesn't. Arran is much better in FE12 because he is your only unit with access to promoted reclassing options early, similar to Jagen in Shadow Dragon. He is worse than his FE11 counterpart because effective weapons are not as broken, but still highly useful. FE3 Arran gets outclassed rather quickly. The early cavaliers are only a couple of points behind him in all stats, and Catria even has a high enough weaponrank to use his Silver Lance right when she joins, making his one advantage obsolete. Palla has better stats than Arran despite being unpromoted and joins as early as chapter 3. This is not to say he is bad, but FE3 Arran shouldn't be in A tier.

[@AceDefective3]

Fe3 Arryn has chapter 1 and 2 utility going for him, the former where can help weaken enemy bandits before your cavs, who seem to have trouble doubling if their name isn't Cecil, can KO them. Also, getting the Lady Sword in Chapter 2 is only remotely possible because of Arryn. Hid bases, while good, also seem a bit low for a Jaigen, I vaguely remember his highest stat being 10 speed, not including weapon level, and his growths are non existent, so he cant be used later on too well (if starsphere shards are brought up, then you can argue for literally any character in the roster, and FE3 has a lot). I think B or C is fair for him tbh.

[@allenkeettikkal3149]

Cavaliers in FE3 tend to suck anyway because the terrain is pretty hostile towards them. At least Arran is useful for Chapters 1-3 since he is one of the only units that can reasonably take on the Wyvern Riders in Chapters 2 and 3. He is even pretty decent in Chapter 5 for the Secret Shop.

[@MayorofHopeville]

Your spoiling us with these tier lists.

[@fubu72]

Gunter can be deceptively useful in Conquest, Lunatic even. When you recruit him, right off the bat he can put that B rank Axes and high skill and decent def stats to chip enemy ninjas very reliably. Be it steel axes or hand axes or whatever, it's useful to have him around for the imminent ninja hell that happens right after his recruitment. I sort of wish they made his base level something like 14 so with a single level up he'd get Armored Blow for that +10 def on player phase, he'd be useful even beyond that lol. But even then, when he starts falling off, he isn't just a good stat backpack, he's one of THE best stat backpacks for Corrin, with his base class granting Strength, Defense AND Movement, on top of his personal skill further granting Might and Hit Rate. _THEN_ if Corrin is a Nohr Noble they'll get Nohrian Thrust at Level 15, which means they can proc Gunter's Luna. But maybe one of the best parts is that this requires zero investment. Just stick that old geezer to Corrin's ass and watch them go. So yeah, if you don't have any specific S rank you want to stick to Corrin on Conquest, Gunter is a very good and very fun choice. The extra movement, strength and defense, on top of Luna, basically make Corrin a GK themselves, minus the penalties.

[@Dakotaidk]

The tier list we've been waiting for

[@MugenCannon97]

Honestly Hard Mode Conquest Gunter is so good and it's weird because that specific mode and route combination gives him a good enough stat buff when he rejoins to stay viable as a halfway decent tank unit, though he is slow. His personal skill is also great for your Corrin since he can buff them up and the chapter where he joins is the best demonstration of it. If nothing else he helps make Corrin damned good and if you're just doing Conquest Hard he can be nice to have especially if one or two of your other units weren't doing as well. He's not great in Revelation or in any of the Lunatic modes but for Hard Conquest he really stands out in that route specifically as subverting what you came to expect of him from his mediocre performance in the first handful of prologue chapter pre-route choice. He's not godly but he honestly has a niche in one specific are that makes him alright to use Your indecision regarding Frederick is pretty much a great summary of his role in the game. In Hard mode he's handy but drops off during the midgame where he's run his course and Awakening has done its thing and made everyone else catch up to him or even overtake him. In Lunatic you can't do anything without him and even when you reach mid and late game you are still arguably using him because his sheer reliability gives him staying power and once you know how spotpass teams work you can get spears and tomahawks for him really easily. While Robin outshines him entirely that's sort of a necessity to survive in Lunatic otherwise you will not be getting far. Frederick is perfectly stuck between being S tier for being necessary on Awakening's at its' hardest starting out but A tier because Awakening on its much more forgiving regular Hard mode for more relaxed play he kind of drops off compared to everyone else and isn't able to go full Seth. I still keep him around sometimes personally because Great Knight is an underrated class in Awakening, having full triangle control when you can buy whatever regular weapons you want off of spotpass and starting with high lance rank and an ability that makes weapon rank leveling faster for him that he starts with means he can flexibly handle most melee situations and won't really break like some other units. Honestly I like Jagens alot too and I'm baffled as to why they didn't give you Jeralt as one for Three Houses. Honestly since Byleth is talked up as having combat experience I almost wish they were the prepromote and started in the mercenary class since they are in fact a mercenary by profession.

[@thewindysage1538]

Maybe im falling into a pitfall here but i feel dagdar has it really easy in terns of fixing the "dip" you mention as the crusader scrolls growth bonuses and low caps can really help offset his weaknesses I mean you are probably not gonna make him a magic tank but if you feel like for example you'll like him to have a little more speed then some sety scroll probably will help with that(i used the sety scroll as an exampke as you get it fairly quickly and is your primary source of speed influencing for a while You can even give him a speed ring if you are feeling daring and completely skip what i just said Fe5 is special in that case as it lets you customize are unit fairly easily with a little favouritism

[@MrGhosta5]

Freddy is basically the only thing that makes awakenings lunatic difficulty doable. early game his job is to protect the team by tanking hits and then in the midgame he switches to being a pair up unit for stat boost and dual guards. Gunter is trash. his growth are just terrible and his stats are low for his class. when he joined in conquest my silas was around 5 points above him in each stat. In revelations he's ok as he's one of the few units that can actually do damage or take a hit early game. most of early revelations is using kaze/jacob to debuf enemies and then positioning gunter so that weak units like hana can use his follow up attack to get kills.

[@danieldavidtoomer]

Gunter worse than B tier but yeah. A fun list and good content. I would love for you to keep making these

[@princeofpeace6432]

Mekkah pls do a lord tier list I’ve been wanting to hear your opinion for ages

[@pakiaki9775]

Sothe is 15 and hes in the "Im Old" slot lmao

[@kentknightofcaelin4537]

He is 17 in radiant dawn

[@pakiaki9775]

Kent, knight of Caelin wait really?? I was told he was 12 in PoR

[@SuperZez]

Epitome is pronounced eh-PIT-oh-mee. Main stress on "pit", lesser stress on "mee".

[@zant41]

Meh

[@dundidely1519]

The Last Promise character tier list has to come soon right? You're onto something great with these tier lists. love hearing your input!

[@12pluz]

Mekkkah: Every unit here is very good and powerful *looks at Gunter* You sure about that?

[@maltheopia]

Gunter has some very good utility as a pair-up bot and Shelter shenanigans, so he's at least a high-B just from that.

[@12pluz]

@@maltheopia what does he do, that no other unit can do? Every unit can potentially learn shelter in fates. Every unit can be a Paladin or great Knight. His slightly better stat boost is meaningless as soon as you have the first supports. Which unit is worse than Gunter?

[@NieOrginalny]

@@12pluz Mozu

[@12pluz]

@@NieOrginalny on lunatic, yes. Touché. On hard, eh, in my opinion easier salvagable than Gunter.

[@covershopkid]

Yesss Seth highest tier is my guess! And what about a Lord tier list?

[@SnowballK4T]

To be fair, if you are playing FE4 Gen 2 with the substitutes, Oifaye doesn't really fall off ever. He won't be as good in combat as Seliph, Ares or Leif but he has an edge on most kids during most of the game. Edit: When discussing 1-2 range, Oifaye actually has decent 1-2 range (for FE4 standarts), as he is easily the best user of magic swords in Gen 2, assuming you don't do ghetto pairings. His base magic is very good for a physical unit.

[@arachnofiend2859]

A Jeigan is less useful the more you want to use a bad unit. "God dammit, I'm bringing Rebecca to end game if it kills me" is where the myth of Jeigans being bad comes from

[@korinoriz]

That's definitely a factor, but I think the common misconception "they'll fall off" and "exp thief" is more often the main cause.

[@lpfan4491]

I actually wonder where the myth of rebecca being good come from tho. her growths are not really impressive aside from speed, bows are shit in fe7, enemies are positioned in a way with AI that only attacks stuff in range that she is even fucked in jp(where effectiveness is stronger) against flying enemies and her bases are kinda crap too. everything is terrible about her

[@arachnofiend2859]

@@korinoriz It's the motivation behind the "exp thief" argument. Like, the most efficient way to play FE7 is basically to just pick up every overpowered prepromote and simply drop them when they fall off - Marcus can't steal xp if none of the units you're using particularly care about being fed xp. On the other hand, bad units require babysitting to be useful, which happens to be most of your non-Jeigans in the first several chapters of most games. For a lot of new/middling experience level players, giving all of that experience to Marcus means that the rest of your army is going to suck. It just doesn't occur to them that that isn't a bad thing because you were going to bench these characters anyways... assuming you're trying to be efficient, and frankly if you insist on using Seth in FE8 I don't respect you as a person.

[@aprinnyonbreak1290]

@@lpfan4491 Normal mode. Normal mode is where legends of dodgetanks and awful units facerolling the game come from. A legendary land where even the standard fighter bros can see 50% evasion rates. I had to play through FE7 normal mode on a rom to get hard mode recently. Decided I'd use Karla, so used Bartre. Bartre was nigh unstoppable. If Bartre can dominate a normal run, Rebecca being a run hero isn't that outlandish either.

[@lpfan4491]

@@aprinnyonbreak1290 the joke is, normal mode literally gives units more HP if they are overleveled compared to the enemy. so just because rebecca is more usable in normal mode, she is still a bad unit compared to others. because people like oswin and marcus who have an statistical edge(and in oswins case the advantage of being fairly high level unpromoted), the game just snowballs out of control and she is still one of the weker units. in fact, wil completely overshadows her by default if we want to talk about comparable peers because he can start out on a higher level.

[@legendofsonic3979]

Fredrick can instantly be reclassed into a Wyvern Rider with a second seal, that alone puts him in S and makes him useful throughout the entire game imo.

[@miahmagick]

Panne makes better use of it.

[@legendofsonic3979]

Pink no, no she doesn't. Wyvern rider with pre-promote stats is far better.

[@miahmagick]

@@legendofsonic3979 Have you even looked at it? She essentially gets the stats of promotion TWICE going to Wyvern Rider and then Wyvern Lord. Look it up before you make inaccurate statements.

[@NotADegenerate]

It's hilarious that after I watch this video I found out you be the jagen of blinding bald

[@maltheopia]

There should be a 'Knoll' archetype for characters who are/can get ridiculously screwed at their primary role but are useful because of a secondary function. Examples would include Salem, Canas, Leif, Knoll, Anakin, and Cecilia. EDIT: Also, surprisingly, Gunter.

[@red5t653]

Anakin? Also, for members of this archetype: Fae. Her divinestone being so non-durable means she can't kill too much, but she's _amazing_ at tanking mages and drawing ranged staves.

[@zander3312]

@@red5t653 Anakin is one of the Lords in The Last Promise, he can use Light Magic, but why would he when he can just Dance instead.

[@maltheopia]

@@zander3312 Because if his shaky Magic Growth actually turns out, Anakin can make an incredibly good tank with his native regeneration and 1-2 range. But even if he got literally zero growths he'd still be a dancer that regens and has decent bulk.

[@lance5691]

I hate that you gave me so much hope putting Jeralt in the list, I'm far into my first path in 3 houses and was thinking about how someone would go about maddening difficulty. I also wanted him to live :'(

[@mitchell102]

I would kill a man to watch Mekkkah talk about and rank Ests for 20+ minutes.

[@chilipowderkeg1160]

I’m a simple man, I see a tier list with Siegfried and I like

[@nicoloenricorimoldi7425]

Watching all these units together makes you realize how broken Jeigans are.

[@adamhurd1560]

I have no idea why but I think the archer tier list would be actually very interesting. Take all the archers and discuss.

[@aprinnyonbreak1290]

Make sure it's only archers, though. *maybe* snipers. No bow knights, they are actually kinda okay.

[@polybius32]

I'm not completely sure about this, but I think Jeritza from Three Houses could be considered a Jagen in some aspects: he starts as a slightly stronger unit at the beginning of the post timeskip, his exclusive class is better than some of the master ones, making him something like a prepromote, and the Sariel Scythe is like the stronger weapons that other Jagens had.

[@NieOrginalny]

If there's anyone fitting that archetype in Three Houses, it's Shamir and Catherine

[@l.n.3372]

Agree with Shamir but Catherine's growths make her not the typical falls off kind of Jeigan. Shamir straight up has bad growths, average bases, but can carry with Hunter's volley once you master sniper.

[@kellamyoshikage286]

Frederick is probably worth the S tier placement. To my knowledge he's explicitly required for any kind of consistent prologue clear due to the initial enemy rush and otherwise only having 2 units who can do anything beyond healing on top of a healer that can't take a single hit. It's probably possible to do the next few chapters without Frederick, but this relies heavily on Robin growths and Frederick will still be a great backpack at absolute worst. He gradually falls off over the next few chapters more because he can't snowball as easily as other characters, so he loses his uniqueness as your only good combat unit and then even becomes not the best unit in your army, but he's still immensely important to anything until about chapter 7 and is useable all the way until about chapter 20 with a bit of help. While pretty much everyone in Awakening has insane growths, lunatic doesn't buff their bases enough to really matter. To my knowledge there isn't a single recruit in Lunatic past the prologue that isn't one rounded by at least one enemy on the map at base. Maybe Vaike lives the Merc, I don't remember, not like he can land a hit back. They're not trainee bad, or not nearly, but they're close. I don't know who would take 2nd best in the game if not Frederick.

[@heim8099]

It seems that this tier list is structured by relating Jeigans and Oifayes in relation to the other units in their respective games rather than the Jeigans in relation to each other.

[@aprinnyonbreak1290]

Well, if we didn't, Fredrick would probably stomp, since he can grind endlessly.

[@heim8099]

Fair.

[@aby-_-1966]

Siegfried's divine lighting shall pierce technicalities.

[@MythrilZenith]

I’d say Frederick is definitely closer to SD Jagen/FE6 Marcus than Seth-tier. His growths seem high on paper, but they are still painfully low compared to the rest of the Awakening crew, whose growths are absolutely insane. He never doubles anything on Lunatic, he just manages to not GET doubled for like 3 chapters. That said, a unit “falling off” in Awakening isn’t exactly the right term. It’s more the case of the enemies dramatically outpace you, so you need some sort of broken ability or niche to be actually useful. Frederick hits the niche of “only unit able to take a hit for 3-4 chapters” as well as being the best enabler for Robin during the early-mid game to get the exp he/she needs to become a monster. As such, Frederick is definitely A-tier, though definitely not the same tier as Sigurd or Seth.

[@donchindle2958]

"You ask no money! You are old man!"

[@joaomesquita3069]

mINi JeiGaNs tier list when?

[@DancinLumberjack]

April 1st

[@KarlAegis]

I saw Gunter used in a Conquest speedrun. His extra hit over Jakob was used in the ninja cave map. That was it. Use Camilla as your Jagen in Conquest.

[@dayalasingh5853]

Is Finn not a Jeigan/Oifaye? I haven't gotten to FE5 yet so. Also Navarre archetype next?

[@prismatic8333]

We now need an “Est” tier list

[@Thunder_Mage]

Thanks for the video Mekkkah Can you do a tier list for infantry mages (Including those who can promote into a mounted class, but not begin as one)? I don't care if you only do unpromoted ones or inlcude pre-promotes, since availability and join time are factors. Personally I wouldn't include main characters like Celica, Robin, or Micaiah, or villagers like Kilff.

[@geenobe9941]

You said that Sigurd may no longer be the second best unit in the series after Three Houses. I’m curious as to who eclipse s him because i can’t really think of any TH units on par.

[@andrebryant3312]

If you're going to include a TLP character, you need to add Raffin and Ward, too. This is unfair.

[@Persoon56]

And Garo, since there seems to be this weird popular conception that Garo's a Jagen

[@kentknightofcaelin4537]

Ward is my favorite Berwick saga character lol

[@Napopolistick]

Navarre archetype tier list when