Mellotron M4000D Mini - adding it into The Genesis Show rig!

[@GeneticsBand]

thank you Matt! we'been using the M4000D and it's great. There are big differences in tone between the 3 violins (brighter)s and the 8-choir sound (darker)...

[@mattthomasoverdrive4514]

It is going to take a few band rehearsals for me to settle on the right EQ for these.

[@haydenbeauchamp3369]

Woooo mellotron... Great video matt

[@santibanks]

From what I've seen, Tony used EQ's of all sorts over the years to shape sounds. Not so much as "sound design", just to fit better in the mix because the engineer at FOH doesn't get separate feeds of his keyboards, so he needs to do the pre-mixing himself. Using the EQ on especially the choir and brass sounds helps to cut some of the low and mud and therefor blending better with the organ (which has a lot going on in that low mid range with the 16' and 8' drawbars out on most sounds) and also fitting better against Mike's 12 string.

[@NicolaMenel]

Great upgrade!

[@joenethen6752]

i set my mellotron up to have the starting point around 0.35 seconds to get rid of that annoying 8 voice choir windup. it kinda screws up some of the other sounds (for example the celestes and tubular bells) but i don’t mind since i usually stick with the classic tony banks sounds

[@mattthomasoverdrive4514]

Ooh that’s an interesting idea. I’ll try adjusting that. Thanks!

[@Ale3290_]

It is also possible to set the starting point of every sounds individually, in fact I changed this parameter only for the 8 voice choir (and other few ones) leaving the others to the default settings

[@mattthomasoverdrive4514]

Sounds like the perfect solution, thanks!

[@joenethen6752]

@@Ale3290_ i didn’t know you could do that! that’ll fix so many problems for me

[@Darrin.Crawford]

Hey Matt!! Absolutely incredible!! Just curious. Do you think the VC 340 would fit on top?? Will you be doing video tutorials for the songs from that tour?? Hoping and praying. Hope all is well!!

[@mattthomasoverdrive4514]

The vocoder is too deep for this Mini, but they say that the Mini can sit atop the original M4000D like an upper manual. So for about $1K more you could stack them! 😂

[@Wretchedone69]

You guys are great. We see you in Ridgefield every time you play there.

[@kencrisp6333]

Did you even consider the Memotron m2k over the M4000D, and if so, what made you choose the Mellotron?

[@mattthomasoverdrive4514]

I actually had the Memotron before I started this channel, when my band first got together to do the 1977 tour. I sold it. It’s fine. I like the Streetly libraries very much, but now have them in software. I prefer their A/B/C “tape” selection. It’s great it had internal effects, but I didn’t think they were that great. And I prefer the Memotron expression pedal input to the Mellotron volume pedal insert cable. In the end I went with the Mellotron this time for the audience. Some Genesis fans are kinda weird 😉. Some will see that word on the back of the keyboard and relax in their theater chair. Since I have all the GForce M-Tron Pro and Mark II libraries, now I have the “Mellotron” uncompressed versions and can cross them off my wish list.

[@kencrisp6333]

@@mattthomasoverdrive4514 While I also have the Mellotron M4000D rack, the Memotron, and the G-Force M-Tron Pro (with all software libraries), I have never performed live (yet). Even so, I can understand everything you mentioned. And I'm very grateful to you for freely sharing your knowledge and experience with us. I've been intrigued by the sounds of the Mellotron for about the last 45 years and desire to get good at playing the (digital) instrument. Would you consider making a video that demonstrates techniques for playing the Mellotron professionally, including the best reverb (and other) effects to use? I'd be happy to make a donation for your efforts. Thanks so much, Matt!

[@mattthomasoverdrive4514]

When I get my 1976 rig together, I’ll make a rig video with my signal chain. If you record or play through a computer, I would recommend looking at Arturia’s FX collection. Between their emulations of the EMT plate reverb, Grampian spring reverb, and Space Echo tape delay, you can really give the Mellotron sounds those vintage time-based effects.

[@kencrisp6333]

@@mattthomasoverdrive4514 I actually do have Arturia's FX Collection. l'm looking forward to learning from whatever you can post, Matt. I'm personally into all Genesis music and have a personal reason to figure-out the best way to play the Mellotron parts in the Hollies' song, "(He Ain't Heavy) He's My Brother" Thanks so much!

[@Shred_The_Weapon]

I’m curious. In your opinion, how do you think this model measures up with the approximations of Tron sounds uploaded to other digital keyboard synthesizer? I’m asking mainly as the owner of Yamaha S90XS which includes several uploaded sounds based on Tron flutes and strings. The string patch even includes the 8-second limit of the original units.

[@mattthomasoverdrive4514]

I genuinely don’t know, I haven’t used any of the big workstation/stage pianos (Korg/Roland/Yamaha/Kurzweil) in decades. My Nord Stage is the original which pre-dates the non-piano sample feature. But I’m sure any modern samples of Mellotron patches of the classic sounds are fine.

[@classicarcadeamusementpark4242]

Hi Matt. I get it from an audience point of view, they'd like to see the Mellotron name & keyboard shape on stage. In terms of the sound, did you find any advantages to it over the Gforce M-Tron? I think the M-Tron sounds fantastic, and I can't imagine it sounding too much better, but the M4000d is pretty expensive. The real-time controls are nice, but I'm sure those can be assigned with MIDI learn to a knobs on a keyboard. I love the ability to take my laptop to gigs & practice and use it with a few MIDI controllers and extra ones left at practice. So convenient. But I understand the visual look of the keyboards matters for a Genesis tribute band. I got to try out a real M400 about 20 years ago. It sounded terrible. It was in poor condition and probably worn tape heads. Still was pretty cool. There has been on for sale recently a half hour from me I might ask if I can check it out, but surely I wouldn't want to own a real one with all the potential problems. You almost need to be a service tech to own one.

[@mattthomasoverdrive4514]

I have just about all the vintage electromechanical keyboards from the 60s/70s EXCEPT the Mellotron and I agree with your final sentences. Since I’ll be using a real ARP and RMI for these shows, my idea is to have all hardware with the Mac Mini as a backup for everything. That, plus effects routing, was the reason for getting the M4000D Mini.

[@stoneyboyd]

What are your thoughts on the Manikin Memotrons? I know Rick Wakeman has used them onstage and I’m fully aware that they have the 8 seconds of sample time like the originals. What do you think?

[@mattthomasoverdrive4514]

I answered a similar question earlier, check out the responses below.

[@stoneyboyd]

@@mattthomasoverdrive4514thanks

[@sailingwhisper149]

Hi Matt, this is a pretty of topic question about mellotrons, but I wanted to ask because I figure you or one of your audience members would know the answer. Why do the original Mellotron keyboards end in a low G? Often times different keyboard instruments have a low C or a low F, like the spinet hammonds or RMIs, but the Mellotron is the only instrument I've seen with a low G. And despite this confusion, it disappoints me that these digital mellotrons add the extra few keys and end on an F. I like to keep it as authentic and vintager as possible, you know? Anyway, I look forward to an answer of some sort! Thanks!

[@mattthomasoverdrive4514]

Not sure why Mellotrons went to G. Was that also a Chamberlain thing? Maybe they found that was a usable range for the loops they were making. I suppose the modern lower F is a Fatar action thing.

[@sailingwhisper149]

@@mattthomasoverdrive4514 Interestingly enough, i google pictures of Chamberlins and they also have the low F. I agree that it must be some sort of limitation with the range of recording to tape, that makes the most sense!

[@mattthomasoverdrive4514]

I just looked at some Chamberlin videos (a fun rabbit hole to explore) and they end with G, also.

[@stargate1555]

Lets all get together and talk Marcus into producing an 88 key M4000D1. How cool would that be?

[@RonaldFigura]

What other keyboards are in your gig rig?

[@mattthomasoverdrive4514]

ARP Pro DGX mk1 RMI 368 and a new piece which arrives tomorrow and will be my next video.