Games After The Crash

[@apathae5430]

Talking smack about MGS4 : quickest dislike in my life; won't even watch the rest of the video. Let me guess, you think MGSV is a fine game? I played the series since the beginning and I remember Famitsu giving MGS4 a perfect 40/40 grade but I'm sure you know better.

[@omarg2079]

MGS4 isn't that bad, but when compared to dig-dug, there's a clear gap in quality.

[@spongebobboyfriend7788]

@@omarg2079 I agree, both games are fun, but the immaculate graphics and the amazing story makes dig dug the better game. I still cry when dig dug man realizes that red man is his real father.

[@shammytv]

I just drove by Leon's house and he's doing Orange Justice

[@PunkDuck]

That's interesting because I also remember Famitsu giving MGSV a perfect 40/40 whilst bashing vanilla Dig Dug at launch proving once again that journalists are not to be trusted

[@apathae5430]

MGSV has some very strong points but it falls off in the category it should be the strongest in -- story telling. The game tried too hard to be some sort of free roaming mmorpg type gameplay that it ends up feeling bleak and the story feeling non-important. What's the problem with MGS4? You hate watching cinematic scenes? You have adult ADD, awful sorry about that, not my problem.

[@Buzerio]

The tone of Leon Massey's video essays is like he's come to terms with the fact the world is about to end and he's reflecting on everything that's happened in his lifetime.

[@jamesgraham3789]

must be nice to have come to terms with it lol

[@technicolormischief-maker5683]

Puts that “end times” joke into perspective, huh?

[@DrunkenCoward1]

I can't wait for Gaming History to be an acceptable field of culture historical study and I will be able to say “I've studied under the likes of Leon Massey“ and they will have no choice but to say “Sir, please, this is your sixth bottle. And this is a kindergarten.“

[@thechugg4372]

Cimena still isn't really acknowledge, because damn early cinema was barbaric to say the least, see the Emplemon documentary on the wizard of oz.

[@sirreginaldfishingtonxvii6149]

ah what a glorious day it will be

[@XSlimSxadyX]

@@thechugg4372 can’t STAND emps voice nowadays

[@DoxSteele]

@@XSlimSxadyX what? Why? When did he sound different?

[@dopeasschiller]

You’re gonna be waiting a long time LMAO

[@Carlitonsp1]

I am convinced that the original Zelda and Metroid were designed to sell Nintendo Power guides. I'm surprised you didn't mention Manuals as a source of information.

[@Druid-T]

Not even just sell guides, but also encourage calls to the Nintendo Power Line, which was a number you could call to get hints and walkthoughs for games, even non-Nintendo ones

[@Carlitonsp1]

@@Druid-T Micro transactions took a very different form back then.

[@Artersa]

@@Carlitonsp1 Good point.

[@LtSprinkulz]

That would take research.

[@MagillanicaLouM]

Yeah they seem integral for games made during and even the decade after

[@Kuikkamies]

It should be noted that the '83 crash wasn't the first video game crash. Fewer people remember the crash from the late 1970s, when Pong clones and other machines on the market saw an insane dump in sales, with the Atari being the only system that survived it. Furthermore, the impact of the '83 Crash has been grossly overexaggerated with time and the US-centric point of view; it only impacted the US market. European markets were their own ecosystem with their own machines, with homer microcomputers being the systems of choice. Asian markets were their own thing, with China and Korea mostly pirating and copying neighboring systems. Nintendo's place as the world-leading gaming corporation doesn't hold water in its worldwide context, where Nintendo didn't see much success in PAL territories, where Sega ruled the console space. They offered better prices and better selections for the Master System next to the dirt-cheap cassette you could pick up for your Amstrad or C64. This was Nintendo mismanaging the PAL regions t no end, and would not see proper success in the PAL markets until the early 1990s, with them becoming the powerhouse people often depict them to be in the era with the release of the Super NES, and even that took until the release of Donkey Kong Country. In the worldwide context, this is a rather dismissive view of gaming as a whole, as it suggests the Japanese and European markets weren't doing completely different things before and during the same era. While Nintendo often gets the label of saving gaming and the NES having all these newfangled ways to play, express or approach games, they were just as much following trends as anyone else, even if their corporate culture doesn't want to admit to it. Games after "the" Crash really weren't any different than before; the US just got to see what Japan was cooking while ignoring how European developers had already gone the same lengths, if not further in some cases, on their local systems.

[@DrunkenCoward1]

@Shin Shaman Good counter argument, you've convinced me.

[@CrossfacePanda]

While you’re right on the crash not being global but an U.S phenomenon, the Sega being dominant in Europe rather than Nintendo isn’t really true, and is ironically what U.S media has always said by conflating the U.K with Europe. It was absolutely true for the U.K (maybe just England, can’t say if it applied to Scotland & Wales), but it definitely varied a lot between different European countries whether Nintendo or Sega was the dominant video game brand. Sweden, for example, was solidly Nintendo country during both the NES & SNES era, and was even the first country to start an official distribution of Nintendo products outside of Japan (it’s a whole story, and I’d recommend loooking it up if you have the time). Sweden could’ve even been the first country outside Japan to have the Famicom, if Nitpntendo didn’t already have a deal in the works with Atari to publish it in the U.S, which eventually turned into the self published version of the console we now know as the NES. France, likewise, was always Nintendo country, at least from what I’ve heard from French people of that era. And I’m sure you can find a lot more European countries like this if you talk to people who grew up in them around the 80’s and early 90’s. I’m a bit more iffy on East European countries, as from what I understand some of them never got Nintendo or Sega consoles, but instead got Russian or Chinese clone consoles (don’t quote me on that, tho, as it’s definitely not my area of expertise). Of course, practically every European country got dominated by Playstation once that released, or the PC market overtook the console market, depending on the country. But up until that point, Nintendo definitely had a strong presence throughout Europe, it’s just a matter of which country you grew up in.

[@Kuikkamies]

@@CrossfacePanda Pretty much the same points repeated there, though this being KZbin, I didn't want to write an essay on each nation's own experience and brushed things with a wide stroke. Ninty having large success in Fennoscandia (not just Sweden) and arguably in France, while failing in places like Spain and Italy, is less known in outside PAL territory. Then you have the whole thing with home micros, which can also be argued to have been more popular than consoles overall.

[@CrossfacePanda]

@@Kuikkamies Gotcha. Just wanted to clarify is all. Especially since, with Leon’s videos being in English, it’ll probably be viewed by a lot of Americans. So I saw it as an opportunity to broaden the knowledge and perspective of viewers, especially since there’s been so much misinformation over the years. And personally I always thought micro computers was mostly a pre-NES thing. Anecdotally, they’re something I’ve only ever seen video game boomers talk about (talking people 40 and up), but I’d imagine this too varies a bit by country throughout Europe. It’s admitedly another weak spot in my knowledge, because as somebody in his early 30’s, they’d mostly been supplanted by personal computers when I was a kid. So most of my exposure to them came via reading about them in video game mags from a historical perspective, or by having older relatives show them off to a very unimepressed childood me (when you have an SNES, the Commodore 64 doesn’t have that much appeal to a 6 year old lol)

[@rzzz5946]

@@CrossfacePanda as a boomer, although I loved my Karate Champ on my Commodore, the NES had more audio channels more sprites more color density, more joystick inputs. It couldn't complete for entertainment value and newer PCs were fumbling around at the time.

[@jeremygregorio7472]

It actually wasn't quality control that caused the crash. At least not in the United States. We had a massive recession and this was before people realized that during recessions spending on entertainment products stays the same or actually increases. Retailers panicked at a temporary drop in sales and dumped all their inventory and stopped stocking video games. Thinking the fad was over. If they had more data they would have known that people were still buying Atari 2600s. One of the reasons Atari made the 2600 Jr was it they ran through all of their stock of original consoles because people kept calling them and ordering them directly. Americans didn't give up on video games retailers did. That's why Nintendo was such a huge success. It doesn't help that the people running the companies that could release game consoles thought people would buy expensive computers instead. So when they did push something for game playing it was a computer. Those computers were many times more expensive even when they were 8-bit. If Only because we didn't use tape drives

[@lazarushernandez5827]

Very true. All the kids in my neighborhood had a different console: I had the 2600, the kids upstairs had the 5200, the kids a block over had the Intellivision, the ones next door had the Colecovision. A lot of my school friends also had 8 bit computers, most had an Atari 400 or 800, while others had the C-64, after 1983 as that was when we were exposed to them in school. Junior high and Senior high had a mixture of Tandy TRS-80s, Apple IIs, and Atari 800s. We had tape drives in the U.S. during the 8 bit computer era (I still have one from my Atari 800XL), they just were nowhere near as fast as the floppy drives. I remember the Bruce Lee game taking over a half hour to load from the tape drive. The floppy drive would load it in a few minutes. The price of the computers also depended on the brand. The Apple IIs were expensive. Those launched at $1200+ back in the late 70s. The original Atari 800 launched in 1979 at $1000, with the 400 coming in at $550. Commodore (which also released the PET and the Vic20 earlier) came in with the C64 at under $500 in 1982 and immediately cut the price to $300 which caused a price war, eventually you could get a C64 or an Atari 800 for under $200 (as low as $150 in some cases), compare to the 2600 which launched at $199 (1977) and dropped its price to around $125 by 1982, an 8 bit computer wasn't that bad of a deal. While some games/programs came on cartridges, you were better off getting a floppy drive, incurring more costs, but then again they were computers, you could also do homework on it, program on it, spreadsheets, word process etc... Software for the 8 bit computers was easy to copy at the time, you couldn't do that (at the time) with console games.

[@jeremygregorio7472]

@@lazarushernandez5827 prices varied a lot, so all you could technically get a c64 for $200 it was more likely going to be $300. Also bear in mind of adjusted for inflation even a $200 that's about $400 in today's Cash. And that doesn't get you a disk drive or even a tape drive. And the prices didn't really come down that low until the mid 80s. In the peak of a crash the computers were still very expensive unless you knew a guy that knew a guy or knew where to catalog shop. Also most games and software for being released on disc in the states, not on the cheaper tapes like in the UK. Go looking for retro computer games and you'll find them all on floppy disk here in America. When you do find tapes therefore are games released near the launch of the computer. Finally computers are just intimidating the regular folk especially back then. A game console you just plug everything in and go where a computer makes you put in some commands first. I know it's silly especially the guys like you and me but that was really intimidating to consumers back then. They also felt if they were going to buy the computer they should do something with it besides play games but they didn't really want to.

[@lazarushernandez5827]

@@jeremygregorio7472 I got my Atari 800XL between 83 and 84 as I hadn't taken computer class until junior high (83 and 84), our school had the original Atari 800 which influenced the purchase decision. It was around $200 plus $100 later for the floppy drive, $300+ all said and done. Very close to the video game crash...maybe it was the market I was in? (Miami). The software for Atari 800 and the C64 came either on cartridge (usually Atari's own games/programs), cassette and floppy disks. Some of the games I bought included both floppy disks and cassettes. I even recall some games including the C64 version and the Atari 800 version in one purchase ( A-side would have the C64 version while B-side had the Atari version), shared a few games with a friend that had the C64 at the time. No doubt that consoles are the easier setup, insert the cart, turn it on and you're playing, but some of the 8 bit computers weren't too far off, cartridge games functioned the same way as on a console, floppy games would usually auto boot when you turned everything on, or you could do a soft reset if the computer was already on, plus the C64 and the Atari 800 could both hook up to a TV, and had standard Atari joystick ports.

[@jeremygregorio7472]

@@lazarushernandez5827 I'm envious. I paid $300 for a c64 and disc drive in 1990. Another $200 for a monitor though I suppose I could have hooked it up to a TV.

[@lazarushernandez5827]

@@jeremygregorio7472 Just curious, the C64 was great machine (best selling single computer of all time) and had a huge library when you got it, but why not go for the Amiga 500 at that time? Most of what I've seen place it at $400 or so around that time. It was more powerful, had a built in floppy drive...

[@curtmack]

As a mahjong fan. I can explain the difference between the two early mahjong games: 4-Nin Uchi Mahjong is a passable implementation of four-player mahjong given the hardware limitations of the basic NROM cartridge, and Nintendo Mahjong is a game that people only bought because it came out first, because it's two-player mahjong and literally nobody plays two-player mahjong.

[@MarceloOmegaAGDM]

I think the whole "where do I go" had two intentions, besides limited hardware. 1 - When you go on an adventure, as an explorer, you need to take closer looks to surroundings, get a notepad, draw a map, etc. It becomes less about exploring if you are given all tools, it makes the game more gamey if it needs to give you the info and also keep it for you. I Love when i go through my stuff and find my notes for kh, which enemy drops what, or my maps for phantasy star 1. It makes it feel like "yeah, i did this, i explored, i took these notes, i went through it all, it was a journey". But has we get older and live in a world where basically everything is given and kept by technology, we just immedeately remove us from the equation, and so those immersive pixels become less and immersive in the end, all we get is the skill to play, but thats it. 2 - sell those guides beybee!

[@rzzz5946]

If you're told where to go, it isn't a adventure, it's a amusement park ride

[@ScamboliReviews]

The way you approached this video was really interesting. I've never given much thought into how developers wouldn't exactly know what made gaming fun early on. Cool vid.

[@forbea]

I did not expect to see u here lmao

[@dj_koen1265]

Its still very unclear i think But there is lots of people making different things which helps progress our understanding of good design

[@CrossfacePanda]

Thank you for being specific about what The Video Game Crash actually was, Leon. This has always been a story told from a very U.S centric perspective, and since a lot of games media online is made by U.S creators, has also come with the traditional U.S tunnel vision of equating American history to world history. It’s also why for years, U.S games media always talked about how, unlike in America where Nintendo ruled supreme, Europe favoured Sega consoles up until the Playstation, which of course wasn’t true at all for most of Europe, but just them equating the U.K to ALL of Europe. I’m not gonna say this was all American game’s media writers, because there were exceptions. And it’s gotten a lot better in the last 5-10 years. But it always stood out when I first started following online games media, as somebody who grew up reading local Swedish gaming mags that definitely always specified The Video Game crash as a principally American phenomenon. Even more confusing when you think about how the Famicom launched the same year as the Crash, and there was certainly no shortage of Famicom discussion in retro game focused U.S media. I hope that we can all start calling it the The American Video Game Crash instead. Would cause a lot less confusion, without always having to clarify what the Crash actually was.

[@lebastion7812]

Nah.

[@shoopoop21]

We are literally as big as the continent of europe. I'm sick of people pretending its stupid not to include them in every distinction ever. The African video games market didn't crash either, but we don't mention it. Videogames is mostly a japanese and american affair.

[@doubledoseofexistence4789]

"Kirby's adventure is still the best NES game" damn right

[@koffi_duck]

Mr.Gimmick! though

[@oatmealpng9275]

Ninja Guiden though

[@hostiusasinhostilityhostil7853]

Mega Man 4 tho

[@cosmic1624]

Joy Mech Fight though

[@WaddleDee105]

He don't miss!😤

[@shammytv]

Banger video, pipe bomb's in the mail

[@LeonMassey]

Another one 😍

[@Kronksterpher]

Spo

[@alexgee6423]

19:39 damn, Miyamoto really was ahead of his time...

[@Micha-Hil]

19:36 god damn super mario bros 1 isn't even released yet? so we've just been playing a leaked nintendo game for this entire time?

[@Steven-yw4gv]

I remember the release of Mario, 2985 was an excellent year for games.

[@KhamStronk]

I grew up with a C64 and what mostly changed for me with the NES is that developers weren't sadistic math nerds anymore that laughed about you as you die an unavoidable death climbing down the first ladder that you see. Suddenly these developers seemed to be interested in making games actually enjoyable instead of throwing shit at a wall.

[@rzzz5946]

You walked left in Karateka, didn't you? 😀

[@isnortgfuel411]

While I enjoyed watching some of your fighting game videos, I gotta say there is something really special about these more I guess "general" video game concept videos, I can't wait to see where your channel goes. Quality stuff man

[@rzzz5946]

Having owned a colecovision and a commodore, I remember my first experiences with the NES was like, how is there like a thousand times more *stuff* going on here?!?!

[@ZonaGeeWon]

I liked the addition of the explanation of the innovation of health bars, never really thought about, glad they exist.

[@_G.C]

I'm genuinely surprised we haven't had another crash. People think the arcades were insane when it came to pumping out new games, they should see the industry now. Annual CoDs and EA sports games, an astounding amount of rushed games with so much promise, and games riddled with add-ons, dlc and microtransactions in general. Plus games don't stick anywhere near where pacman and galaga have stuck around for years, people get bored of some games after only a few months.

[@CorentinDolivet]

I reckon you will never read this, but thank you very much for your essays. I feel that you take inspiration from other essayists, in your choice of subjects, tone and editing, and I mean it as the best compliment. I can tell though that you have an interesting and unique take on the subjects you choose to analyse, and that your own voice has been getting sharper and sharper as you release your videos. Thanks

[@NattyBuns]

Nowadays, all I wait for is new Leon Massey content

[@samanthashelly8093]

that was the fastest click of my life

[@madladon]

19:35 Still waiting for Super Mario Bros to release on September 13th, 2985

[@Midieka]

19:36 man I can't believe that Super Mario Bros was released in the future that's crazy

[@LeonMassey]

I will scream forever

[@Cheebs3D]

Man Leon, you're style of video essay is just so good! It reminds me so much of the first 2 episodes of Sequelitis, before Arin got all weird. You do whatever content makes you happiest, but if you really enjoy making these informative+comedic video essays, feel free to make as many as you want - I'll probably end up watching them all multiple times. I still rewatch your older ones on Jump Arcs and stuff. Heck, I still rewatch that Castlevanie/Mega Man Sequelitis.

[@CoralCopperHead]

"before" Implying there was a time he wasn't an obviously-uninformed idiot?

[@JaunPaun]

I love your channel because I could NEVER predict any subject you're going to talk about

[@randysmith7094]

I'm in my 50's and everyone gets the video game crash wrong. There was no loss of interest in games, not even crappy looking games. if anything there was a huge boom in cheap crappy games. It was just on a different system. It was really just an ATARI crash. Everyone and their dog here ended up with a Vic 20 or if you were lucky, a Commodore 64. Nobody was buying 2600 cartridges. We were copying Vic 20 tapes and C64 floppies like mad. The "video game crash' was the Commodore boom. It was really more games than ever.

[@bred7833]

just wanted to say that i love whn you branch out from fightan games into these, don't get discouraged if these are not making numbers please

[@methanesulfonic]

19:36 I'm still waiting for that Super Mario Bros game to come out

[@aurnknight2813]

Not expecting you to come back with this but pleasantly surprised.

[@Dasaltwarrior]

Probably my favourite video you've made so far. As someone who grew up playing these games from a young age, it kinda reminded me of things I felt when I went from playing asteroids to Mario 3 while staying with various family members. Simpler times that definitely had their own appeal. Albiet due to the lack of resources and knowing better

[@BinBintheRiceCake]

"Progression that isn't putting more shit on the screen!" *Chuckles in shoot em ups

[@saxmanmel]

19:37 Dang, I'm still waiting for that Super Mario Bros release date.

[@Maruposting]

How did you abridge and improve all of Sequelitis in five minutes

[@Druid-T]

F*ck me this is basically a Sequelitis. The Amazon box joke (12:40) is such a Sequelitis line

[@notesscrotes4360]

The downside to the focus going towards progression and not mastery is that a ton of genres (like Shmups, beat ‘em ups, or fighting games) feel obligated to appeal to people who want that sense of progression, even if it means lengthening the arcade mode to being hours long, or tacking on a shitty story mode (SFV and Soul Calibur 6, for example.)

[@ikagura]

Shmups have a progression tho, it's not the same level with more enemies, it's new enemy types (Gradius has an upgrade system and various environments) or just more technical improvments (such as knowing footsies in fighting games or learning supers). PS: Guilty Gear has a good story mode Capcom and Namco just didn't know how to do it properly.

[@Bone8380]

Tekken 7 taught me that I'd much rather have an arcade mode hours long than an arcade mode that's like, maybe 10 minutes long.

[@JoeyGamer55]

I’m glad someone took sequelitis and kept going with it. Was too good of a concept to let it die

[@neotron6490]

Although, Its 2021 and this oldest problem back in the day just reflected on us all... why reality? why do you snitched us that we hate to accepting unforeseen consequences? Also im glad you featured ULTRAKILL as well. That was my favorite GOTY ever too :D

[@DaAssMan]

Yes Leon.... YES! I thought we were long past the era of deep and interesting analysis on video games wit a spicy taste of personality. But I haven't felt this good watching a video since Egoraptor. Please, keep up the great work.

[@Xzyjj]

I admire you creating a whole ass video about old games just to say that block is not a type of expression

[@RyuNoZero]

19:36 WOW! They rerelease Super Mario Bros on 1st of September in 2985!? damn another time traveller!

[@dotd1tdot]

I've been watching your videos all day today, and then I look in my recommendeds, best day ever.

[@aknight7642]

Never thought I’d see Leon cover this topic, but I’m glad he did. I wouldn’t mind more like this. (Also commenting for algorithm boost I guess)

[@WhoIsSirChasm]

I have three (3) overly verbose comments to make, which I will arrange from least to most verbose. 1) One of my favorite things Super Mario Bros. does to separate the importance of high score from reaching a definitive end goal comes from when you jump on a multitude of enemies or kick a shell into a series of them. Your reward for getting enough of them isn't more points, but instead becomes 1-Ups, which is a clever way of letting the player know which has more value in this specific title. 2) I think the reason The Legend of Zelda is more successful than Metroid as a game based on exploration comes primarily from that little map in the upper-left corner. Since the game immediately gets players to determine what they should be on the lookout for in the overworld with the cave where you get the Wooden Sword, every time a player finds a cave they'll want to visit it and see what it holds. So while it can seem like roaming around is a bit of an aimless endeavor, as long as players can look at that map and ask themselves "where have I not gone yet?", it encourages them to head in a different direction if they get a game over, or consider what can be done to get to a section that seems otherwise impossible to reach like the very upper-right square. (It doesn't hurt that Zelda also has areas where you can get fully healed, whereas Metroid has you start with a meager 30 health that makes exploration feel stressful from the word go.) 3) I think that even before Super Mario Bros., Nintendo's first foray into a game with a designated end goal was Donkey Kong. Sure, you'd still want a high score to show off at the arcade, but you also have two primary aims: get as "high" as you can by progressing through the four different stages, and save Pauline. It's not a permanent victory once you actually do so, and the game's brief enough that talented players can plow through the game numerous times, but it still feels like you did something impressive when the eponymous ape takes a tumble that first time. Donkey Kong also does very good work with allowing the player to make decisions as to how they want to reach the top, as well as how to deal with the specific obstacles that they face. Even a single barrel in 25m can be faced three different ways, each with their separate pros and cons. You can jump a barrel and earn points, but it won't be as many points as hitting it with a hammer and you run the risk of landing on it and losing a life. You can hit the barrel with a hammer, but since you can't jump while using it you could be caught unawares by another one. You could play it safe and climb a ladder to avoid the barrel, but not only do you not earn any points, you run the risk of having a barrel roll down that same ladder and knock you out instead. The risks and rewards allow players to have a sense of individuality despite having the same end goal. 75m and 100m also do this very well, though 50m struggles a bit due to its relative linearity; maybe that's why it wasn't included in the NES/Famicom release?

[@dew2759]

Did you know? Super Mario Bros was released in 2985

[@rzzz5946]

I once wondered why none of my colecovision favorites were in AGDQ or other speedrunning events. Then I watched one. Oh.

[@mammothplant]

Easily one of the best video essays I've ever seen. Not even gonna say anything funny or reference any funny jokes you made, this is just genuinely really fucking informative in the best ways. Hats off.

[@EllaEllaAudios]

>Look through the list of games featured in the new Leon video >See GGXRD All is well in the world

[@venix2593]

“Wall chicken wouldn’t make you cum unless there was a health bar” I can’t man, I just can’t with how funny that is.

[@MechanicalRabbits]

I clicked on this video expecting just another video essay about the videogame crash that adds nothing new but keeps me entretained, and I was positively surprised! It's really well made, makes many interesting points that I haven't really seen discussed elsewhere in this much detail, and it's very fun to watch, filled with well placed jokes. It reminds me a lot of Sequelitis, and that's always great because I miss Sequelitis so much.

[@grammarmaid]

Mega Milk has always been my favorite video game series. Glad it's finally getting the recognition it deserves.

[@letskissnow987]

Leon your channel has grown so much and youve gotten a lot better at this, im proud of you bro

[@WesHartgrove]

I find it interesting that you highlighted Chess 08 as an indictment of yearly releases when fans widely recognize that the year-to-year minute improvement is what made Chess 09 the undisputed best in the series. Good video nonetheless

[@technicolormischief-maker5683]

Good video as usual, but… I kinda feel like score games got the shaft here. I like the acknowledgment that they changed more into a way to squeeze out extra value rather than becoming totally obsoleted, but they still kinda got the shaft here. The third generation of console games exposed the fact that most of the second’s scoring systems were far too simple and rigid, but rather than applying the same increase in complexity and choice that the rest of game design did, a lot of designers decided to throw out the baby with the bathwater and drop scoring entirely- hence gaming as a whole tending to see them as obsoleted, too. The few niche games that *did* stick to scoring (see shmups as a genre, especially Shmup Forum’s Top 25) took inspiration from this new progression based model to design intricate scenarios rather than slapshod hazard layouts, and the scoring systems themselves became highly complex and granular optimization puzzles to push skill expression to its absolute limits. I’d have loved to see some of this get explored in the video a little more.

[@asianjackass237]

Because scoring IS an obsolete system much like save gems in Daikatana. Like the wise and pissed off Nerd said: there is a difference between old - school and outdated. Thus why only a few niche GENRES nowadays still have them and most of those genres harken and/ or dated back to their arcade quartermuncher era (Shooters, Fighting games, Box games [pacman, tetris,...]

[@technicolormischief-maker5683]

@@asianjackass237 Scoring is not an obsolete system- it’s one we still see in big-name titles, even, like in the Hitman games. Fundamentally a good scoring system is essentially similar in character to a speedrun, except with added complexity hand-crafted by game developers. A scoring system like you’d find in Pacman or in older fighting games *is* obsolete, though, and that’s because those scoring systems kind of suck. A good game with a good scoring system pushes you to squeeze as much out of the systems within it as possible.

[@Stomo444]

I like how you had Simon says block this overhead appear as Amane Nishiki appears... A character who has a literal single overhead lol

[@mohanaxsafir6645]

Is really amazing and great to remind people that what does make a game isn't technology is the people and there passion and there artistic vision . Good video

[@ZeroBlazer]

Extremely dope video. Reminds me quite a bit of the sequelitis series with some of the humor but well conveyed in ideas and game evolution. Hope you keep this up

[@Dandus_TF]

19:36 Hate having to wait for hundreds of years for a game.

[@kierany9]

(19:38) Ah yes, my favourite video game, Super Mario Bros, released in 2985

[@hectormontes7056]

To be fair, this isn’t something that just came into existence in the third generation, arcade games were already moving in this direction. It was just easier to make a cheap arcade style game, especially when there’s no quality control, no way for the consumer to actually tell what the game is, and very few ways to build trust with the consumer through having your team’s/company’s logo on the box. On top of that, the size of Atari games were extremely limiting, so having a larger scale adventure or action game was something that was really only done in the arcades where there was more control over the hardware and branding and credits, etc.

[@PunkDuck]

I can't tell if ''Ghosts N Goblins'' is a joke or the actual title of the game and I refuse to look it up

[@LeonMassey]

Give me your varification badge

[@deletedTestimony]

there was also Super Ghosts N Goblins

[@lebastion7812]

What is wrong with you?

[@workernetZX]

As The AVGN once said: "...The knights take nine hits. NINE FUCKING HITS! You can't even concentrate on attacking them because you're too busy dodging Medusas! But you can't dodge the Medusas because you're too busy dodging the axes! But you can't dodge the axes because you're tryin' to hit the knight! BUT YOU CAN'T HIT THE KNIGHT BECAUSE THE GAME'S DRIVIN' YA FUCKIN' CRAZY! It's like a test. It's a test... to the SHIT."

[@badmanjones179]

i know im late to your content but i appreciate the self aware ending lol especially since it actually addressed an interesting point (and wasnt just a meta joke). if i were to put that section in the rest of the video though i would have put it somewhere around when youre talking about how "score" carried over and "player choices", but i think i prefer this layout :P

[@catload5]

Heavy Egoraptor energy, love the style and content

[@tsunamiscientist568]

6:27 I was Cyber-Grinding in Ultrakill when you said this.

[@akinzer6267]

Leon Massey caused the video game crash

[@IspamObjection]

19:37 looking forward to the release of Super Mario Bros in 964 years

[@ivbyse]

Now, I wasn't certain whether to subscribe but then you accurately titled Maggie, so, yeah. Subscribed.

[@chaosjoey123]

I've been taught this in multiple game development degrees as "ET broke the game industry than Nintendo was a hero and fixed it" Came into this video hoping it was some contrarian take, taking Nintendo down a notch. Its wasn't yet I'm not disappointed. Actually hearing about all the things Nintendo did to actually change the industry is so much better than hearing a bunch of business numbers heavily skewed by an Animican perspective. I feel like I actually learned things. Great video!

[@Gnidel]

ET was a straw that broke the camel's back. It was doomed to fail even if it was a masterpiece because they made more copies than consoles and they didn't figure out lock-on technology that would allow ET Towers of Power yet.

[@Bazoinkerz]

I love this video so much, one of my favorites on your channel

[@Quietpower99]

"Box to box. Amazon warehouse." I'm getting mad Sequelitis energy from your videos and I fucking love it. Hold that torch up high man.

[@Gear_Taro]

19:36 I can't wait for super mario to release in 964 years i'm so hyped

[@quadrodopollock]

Leon is slowly becoming Egoraptor

[@qazwer333]

I think the more compelling side is that this only affected consoles. That win state has always been there on the pc since microsoft's adventure and zork. It should have caught on. However, it was $1,565 at launch. This was in early 80's money. It would be a family thing or bought for business and it would not even get close to being competitive till 1986. It was so popular, people started making graphic's and sound cards for it. Adventure games, and other games with a win condition thrived on this thing. Infact, quite a few of the devs that made games for the 2600 went to developing computer stuff for a good while.

[@twstingnturning]

Please, more video essays! They’re really good!

[@m.s.e.advanced2842]

Nintendo showed up like the third act hero in the darkest hour

[@dictatorvert2491]

Based on the thumbnail i thought this was jump arcs again except with platformers

[@ZeketheZealot]

I’m surprised that when talking about the growth of gaming and the drastic departure from “point total” games that OG Final Fantasy or really any JRPG didn’t get a mention!

[@jambott5520]

6:26 only a true ultrakill fan would manage to shill for the game while talking about nes games, through one of the only things connecting them. Truly, this is based.

[@BlessedJecka]

This is a really well made video, really big old egoraptor vibes

[@Rocknelson4]

Great video! Definitely going to check out the rest of your videos and I'm looking forward to new ones!

[@Rook502]

Damn Super Mario Bros was released in 2985? I didnt know we stole the game from the future

[@Dastankbeets9486]

Leon was at least 17% more British than usual in this video

[@badgerforrest-blincoe2879]

I think the number 1 fix that makes Metroid and Zelda a lot better and less frustrating is the addition of a map. On the other hand, adding a map immediately takes absolutely all the difficulty out of those games, since compared to Castlevania, the enemies aren't that challenging. Also, the lack of a map is really only a problem for the first games in each series. Metroid II lacks a map, but it is still very obvious where you're supposed to go based on what you can and can't due with your current set of suit upgrades. Pokemon also takes basically the same approach, given that although the map is handy for teasing a glimpse of what areas lie ahead, you are still pretty limited in where you can/should go at any given time.

[@naliboi93]

Good that we're starting to get more international perspectives on this "ViDeO GaEm CrASh onlf '83 yEeehAw" topic. UK microcomputers being a prime example here in UK. Even the whole idea that Nintendo dominated the late 80s/early 90s gaming market is very Americanised. Like, look at UK, master systems and megadrives dominated after people moved on from microcomputers, and especially look at Brazil for their Sega dominance. A lot of videogame history is so America centric, I feel to the point where its even influencing modern outlooks on retro gaming, collecting etc. Like, whenever I go online to figure out something retro for hacks, mods, scalers, cables, there's so much "component cable this" or "NTSC 60Hz" that those outside America with PAL related concerns can easily get ignored. (Thank goodness we at least got proper access to RGB back in the day via SCART in our old CRT TV's, but oh my god, some scalers like the GBS-C can make this a complete pain to use, especially with 50hz PAL).

[@melon3109]

Instruction manuals were integral to game design in the NES age. They contained the information like the what and how that the video stated was lacking.

[@zegendoflolda]

Simon's NES sprite looks like he's looking for shredded cheese in the fridge at 3 AM.

[@Bloodshade]

“You’re probably not even in your 20’s” Right, I’m in my 30’s. *cries in old*

[@instagator8913]

19:38 who else waiting for mario to drop

[@MusicoftheDamned]

I appreciate the video, just like I appreciate the low-key flex of using Quick Boomerang on everything. I also appreciate this answering the question of why the hell _Mega Man 1_ had a scoring system the series immediately dropped beyond "first installment weirdness". Thanks. Speaking of the first _Mega Man_ game, while I do still think that it's underrated and that it still gets too much hate, I also still curse whoever programmed the Footholders in Ice Man's stage and in Wily Stage 1. That person and their entire lineage should still be dragged to Yomi by Izanami herself. That may seem overly harsh, but I assure anyone who hasn't played the game it would be both completely just and still less of a curse than the joke at 13:03.

[@rzzz5946]

Second on that slow phasing out of point scores. It now feels weird to wait for points to tally after winning a round of Street Fighter 2.

[@MusicoftheDamned]

@@rzzz5946 Which is a bit funny since the fighting game genre is one of the relatively few genres to still have such a scoring system, but they at least don't linger on it now since if it shows up at all, then it's a small part of the win screen.

[@ikagura]

Megaman having a scoring system never bothered me...

[@MusicoftheDamned]

@@ikagura ? Never said it bothered me. Just stated I was always confused why it was there and then immediately dropped next game and every other game.

[@leonstorm3847]

anothed banger, thankyou leon massive, very cool.

[@ktt3171]

16:47 i think this vagueness makes more sense if you conisder how used to it players must've been back then. It might've even added to the charm, give the players a vessel for their inner adventurer, and let their imagination fill in the narrative blanks. As well as connecting the dots between the experiences the game throws at you, on top of the ones you stumble across yourself, all in order to give the game some more cohesion. That coupled with the fact that saving wasnt an industry standart yet, it could have been made with the intent of feeding into a games replay value. (yeah zelda did have saving and its a better experience for it, but i wont blame the devs for not developing the experience with a new feature in mind, during the early years of this medium). Instead of having to replay it becaue the game was simply to hard, (or in zelda and metroids, case wandering around the map over and over again) your motivation for going back now came from continuing this internal narrative. Now that i think about it, that appeal might've been able to shine through specifically because you had a save feature in zelda 1 & metroid. After all you cant continue your narrative if you would have been forced to strart over every time

[@JohnsNightmares]

19:37 damn super mario bros is going to be made in 2985 i cant wait for it to come out! lol Great vid btw!

[@Flasher22nd]

People need to talk more about this bit at 19:04 that ended with me cracking up making my neighbors hate me more

[@glacierwolf2155]

It doesn't matter what video topic Leon covers, he eventually wraps back around to fighting games, Guilty Gear, and inevitably Venom.

[@XC11301991]

At first didn't realize this was Leon since no fighting game talk, thought it was Funke or GamingBrit due to the modern games mentioned.

[@Jordan_F]

Hey, I wouldn't complain if you kept making videos like this. Good stuff!

[@relo999]

It should be noted that the '83 crash wasn't the first video game crash. Fewer people remember the crash from the late 1970s, when Pong clones and other machines on the market saw an insane dump in sales. Furthermore, the impact of the '83 Crash has been grossly overexaggerated with time and the US-centric point of view; it only impacted the US market and it's overseas influence. European markets were their own ecosystem with their own machines and so did Japan. With the only notable survivors of the 70's crash internationally being Atari, Philips, Nintendo and Sega (with the latter 2 arguably being very late arrivals). The Japanese market was largely focus on story telling, american markets on action and European markets on simulation. However the the European market being the first to be really "internationalized" with the popularization of foreign systems with things american systems and "mixed region" systems like the MSX (with the obvious exception of european computer gaming being still mainly a european thing outside the MSX as Japan had very much different computer standards). The American crash just showed Americans what Japan was cooking while ignoring how European developers had already gone the same lengths, if not further in some cases, on their local systems. In the worldwide context, this is a rather dismissive view of gaming as a whole, as it suggests the Japanese and European markets weren't doing completely different things before and during the same era. Nintendo was pretty much a generic Japanese gaming company that on the business side of things had a strong grip on the market. That's not to say the american Crash didn't have international effects, but those were rather limited to discontinuation of systems like the Vectex, Colecovision and such systems. Which often weren't that popular to begin with outside of the US (the only notable exception being the Vectrex).

[@ProfDrhobo2]

I can't believe Ghosts N Goblins came out 1000 years before Super Mario Bros

[@tamed4171]

19:37 holy SHIT super mario bros came out WAY later than Ghost N Goblins!