Mercedes OM606 INJECTORS, how they work and should you upgrade?

[@blattferenc9647]

I found a better way to drop the washers into the injector holes. Put the washers over the shank of a screwdriver. Hold the washer at the handle of the screwdriver. Insert tip of the screwdriver into the hole. Let go of the washer. That way it can't flip.

[@DieselPumpUK]

Great idea

[@Zpickard]

All mechanics should know to slide washers and nuts into holes and into studs with a screwdriver. Never miss again. Thanks for coming to my Tedtalk.

[@888johnmac]

never mind Lukes knowledge .. we need to hear more of his camera-persons tuning tips

[@uliwehner]

i bet there are people jotting that down as well. loctite for higher horsepower. :)

[@TheLawnWanderer]

Pre-chambers are made of at least 3 different alloys that are friction welded together. The very tip of the prechamber is made of a nickel super alloy, likely Nimonic 80 or 90, the main part of the body is a different stainless steel alloy but is slightly magnetic, the front isn't The very end of the prechamber where the injector screws in is made of some kind of non-stainless steel. Also I have a OM605 turbo I'm rebuilding where all the prechamber balls are slightly bendt down and crooked, not flush with the other side of the pilot hole, it has vibrated on that side and enlarged the hole slightly along with slight contact corrosion. I'm making some new prechamber balls out of Inconel 718 with enlarged ends so it can be machined flush, but prechamber ball stuff can apparently be a issue with high milage engines. Prechamber balls aren't made of a superalloy interestingly, as they're pretty ferromagnetic.

[@DieselPumpUK]

That’s interesting information Thankyou for taking the time to share.

[@TheLawnWanderer]

@@DieselPumpUK I can send CAD files if desired.

[@alt572]

@@TheLawnWanderer Wait, you designed it? :o

[@RGD2k]

Silver-solder a block made to accept a high pressure hydraulic sensor (Hydac make nice ones) onto one of the fuel lines, then drill into it to open a port into the fuel line. Connect said sensor onto an oscilloscope and you'll be able to measure the dynamic peak pressure. This is also useful for checking the injection timing. You can also get combustion-rated pressure sensors, including down to some tiny diameters so as to be unobtrusive: Optrand make one built into a functional glowplug (they call it PSIglow(tm)), and can modify a glowplug to build one of theirs in. Put this on another channel of the same oscilloscope, and you can get the prechamber gas pressure as well, which will show you when the combustion is igniting and how it is burning relative to the fuel injection timing. Whole setup will only cost a few thousand or so, and it's the best information you can get from the engine, appart from also acquiring the engine position from a good shaft encoder mounted to the crank. Setups that can remove the time delay inherent in the pressure sensors so there's no timing error compared to the crank angle are more expensive - those are what the professional engine systems developers use, and those are usually from Kistler etc and will cost big money, as it's no longer just using an off-the-shelf electronics oscilloscope. A good oscilloscope will have a setting to allow 'deskew' adjustments on each channel, but these often only accomodate a few tenths of ms maximum, not the couple ms you will need. You'll know if you have the settings for the pressure sensor deskew 'right' when the peak cylinder pressure (most same as precombustion chamber) stops moving relative to apparent engine crank angle when the engine speed changes - when its wrong, there tends to be quite a shift to the right, as the crank angle sensor has effectively no time millisecond-level delay built in, being typically optical and digital, whilst the pressure sensors always have analogue amplifiers which have a little constant delay, which causes the pressures to look laggier as the engine spins up. You'll find if you try to calculate engine power from directly measuring PdV using both signals to be wildly inaccurate most of the time too - usually giving numbers up to around twice what you can really see from the dyno - totally normal. Never trust any 'indicated power' measurement. They're basically always nonsense. It only takes a small, uncorrected signal skew mistake, or crank angle sensor mounting inaccuracy, and then the figure you get looks far better than reality. I have once seen someone seriously propose presenting a paper (at an SAE conference in germany, no less) on using an engine with a 90degree right-angle shaped crankrod, with the cylinder also mounted at 90 degrees to normal, claiming amazing output power from the indicated power. They had not also moved their crank angle sensor 90 degrees as well, so they were of course multiplying a high pressure signal (near TDC: usually small change in volume) with a large change in volume from an incorrectly estimated piston speed. Total nonsense of course - if you play around with changing the relative positioning of crank angle (engine position) with cylinder pressure, you can make the power figures nonsense also. The main reason indicated power is usually not very accurate, is more to do with the imperfect read of force on the piston that you get from the way the cylinder pressure sensor is mounted, combined with its own imperfect system dynamics: Somewhat like listening to an orchestra through a long tube. The sound is delayed and rings oddly, so the resulting calculation is not right. It is at best possible to 'calibrate' the indicated power you get to the actual power: But the calibration factor shifts with both load and speed, and also with engine timing, engine temperature, and even over time with piston ring and bore condition, and seemingly other unknown factors as well (the phase of the moon, perhaps?). At best, you can calibrate at one load point setting, and use it for data acquired on the same day in the engine same conditions, and that's accurate to usually no more than plus or minus 10% or so.

[@Akya2120]

Funny, I've had a similar idea. Maybe you'll do it first so I don't have to. Make a fitting between the injector and pump that lets you tee in a 500 bar (or higher) pressure transducer so you can watch the actual dynamic injector pressure. If you had all cylinders monitored it would also let you know the injector and pump health. The way computers should be used in cars imo... Monitor the health, not control things. A while back in a chat you said the prechambers were just steel, but I have a feeling the tips are something like 330 stainless or some flavor of inconel. If you hit them with a magnet you'll notice the tip isn't magnetic, but has a higher permissability than air so it looks magnetic. I have still yet to send a prechamber to a materials analysis lab, but I do intend to. Thanks for the video and sharing the info! I would love to see a video on the 180mm vs 210mm diffs you can put in the W124 if you are looking for more content ideas.

[@nagyandras8857]

i'm quite confident, that peek pressures depending on the amount pushed by the pump, can whit ease go up to 1000 bar for a very very short amount of time.

[@peterjanvanbijnen226]

thank you i learned a lot

[@pguerreroeng]

What nozzle brand do you use in your rebuilt injectors? What size, 310?

[@Skul-Ski]

Ever heard of any other reason for fuel pooling up into the injector wells other than bad hose? I have replaced hoses at least twice with the OEM style braided covered rubber but still have a good bit of fuel always in the wells. Truth be told, I installed rebuilt injectors and scoured the internet for proper torque setting for installation of the injectors and found that I WAY over torqued all the injectors. Wish your video was up before I replaced the injectors. I did remove them all and re-installed them to proper torque with new washers. Engine runs just fine, but still plagued by the constant pool of fuel in the wells. Have it running in my head that maybe the over torque might be the cause, but I kinda doubt it because that would probably mean I would have had to crack the injector housing for that to be the case. And if so then there should probably be a flood of fuel since it would be at 135bar at any potential crack. By the way, there are multiple sources out there that say to go to 40Nm and then another 90 degrees WRONG. I know this now. It felt wrong when I was doing it. I did not go that far but I did go 45 degree past 45Nm.

[@DieselPumpUK]

Most common reason for fuel in and around injector is the injector high pressure hose connection at the top, not seated correctly or ferrule worn out due to over tightening etc

[@Skul-Ski]

@@DieselPumpUK is there a torque spec for those? Of course impossible to get socket style torque wrench on them.

[@felixold2706]

Love your channel

[@minzahhh1]

Imagine how sad I was to find out only 20 odd OM606 powered mercs got delivered into Australia

[@coreyellisart6877]

Hey Luke I'm getting ready to pull my injectors for my 606 what is the reason your deep socket has the notch cut out. Of course I'm here in the US and I can I find a 22 mil deep socket in my toolbox so I'm going to order one does it need to have that notch

[@FlorianDanC]

Hi. He called it a Lambda socket (oxygen sensor socket). They have that cutout for the wiring of those O2 sensors. Hope this clears it out. Cheers!

[@heem6619]

Do you reckon ceramic coating those components might be beneficial?

[@wheelsandgears]

Could you please guide me on purchasing your diesel return hose?

[@jerryjensen1198]

Can you make a video of changing valve springs and why? (:

[@jessechristensen6028]

What do you think of me putting one of these into a Miata?

[@ProjectNotSoSlow]

I like the clear ones. You can watch the diesel flow😂

[@mustang427coupe]

How can you test for bad pre chambers with the engine in your car? My 1998 E300 TD has clouds of blue smoke and misfires when you hold the rpm at 1600 while parked. When you increase the rpm to 3000 it clears up and runs smooth. I have no air bubbles in the lines. Under power up hills it runs smooth. I have replaced clear fuel lines, O rings, primary pump, primary and main filters. I am thinking maybe cracking the injector lines one at a time while at 1600 rpm to see if it is isolated to a cylinder. I do have a new set of Bosch injectors I could install. They would be set at 135 bar. Would it be a good idea to have them set to 150 bar before installation? My car has 429 k all stock except for potentiometer modification. And yes, the car had the same symptoms before the modification. When I adjust the potentiometer I can do a long burnout with lots of black smoke. It seems like it is not a shortage of fuel.

[@manuqtix8874]

Before this I was thinking of Gasoline Port Injectors Gasoline Direct Injectors Diesel Indirect Injectors Diesel Direct Injectors Pros and cons of each, maintenance, efficiency and reliability

[@CZSMotorsport]

I will produce some prechambers in the future

[@CableWrestler]

Sintered Tungsten pre-ignition chambers? 🤔

[@frankk.5548]

very interesting - thanks for the vid. Question I would have: isn´t the increased opening pressure of 150bar reducing the total amount of diesel as the open intervall gets reduced? Have you made measurements comparing f.e. 120 bar with 150 bar? Another question: why is the use of the washers limited to only one time (heard this from Mercedes? Thanks and greetings from Germany, Frank

[@Ellfyn]

The washers are of a soft metal which is a one use due to the torque applied which crushes the metal

[@TheBikeMechanic]

Hey, congratulations to Vlad (dammit, I didn’t win) but who in and around Montreal, Canada sells aftermarket engines and parts for the OM606??? I have a deep neeeeeeed to have one in my first gen Nissan Xterra! Do you all have any leads?

[@J.F.K.O]

it is kinda funny when it comes to rubber fuel hoses a lot of people will say this and this brand sucks never buy, but they rarely say what they think you should actually buy :P maybe i will try continental have tried all sorts of brands on my mtdi and well it is only a matter of when and not if they will start leaking.

[@danielkurnyta1176]

Cool

[@rukawakaede2231]

thank you

[@WingspeedGarage]

Since you build and sell crate engines, ain’t it hard to find engines to rebuild?

[@3aieTs_2]

6:20 How much power will be greater, or economy, if you switch to common rail?

[@mihaz583]

Does N/A pre chambers effect performance on high horsepower build?

[@hnguye22]

E300 injectors is a pain to remove them. The injector manifold is made from 6061-T6. Injectors are made from steel, Geez. Who's won that battle.

[@Sammyboy1335]

I've never had a problem

[@kingjnr2677]

Loctite for more BHP!😂😂😂

[@liamhoanzl2920]

Hi there , I recently bought a 606 and have the following problem. when it runs constantly, i have something like ignition misfires, it runs very quietly and then the engine chokes once and continues to run quietly. and at 850-900 rpm it also jerks. I would be grateful if you could tell me possible causes.

[@Skul-Ski]

More than likely air getting into the fuel lines. replace all the little plastic fuel lines around and under the intake manifold. Plenty of videos on that. Also might need to replace the feed and return line from the tank if they are original they are more than likely quite old and brittle. I have a video on my channel about those with part numbers. But start with the little clear plastic lines first.

[@liamhoanzl2920]

@@Skul-Ski mkay , I wanted to do that anyway. But thanks

[@NiallJones1986]

As always fantastic video. Just wanted to ask if you have ever fitted a 500bhp+ om606 into a w204 with the standard om642 removed ? I just wonder if I'd need a new box etc as I doubt it could handle that much torque and bhp. But I've always said if my engine ever goes tits up and it's a major cost I'm just going to take it out and hopefully fit the 606. Cheers mate

[@100pyatt]

I'd love to know this ... !!

[@100pyatt]

How capable are the common rail #OM603 motors ? Comparibly..

[@danielfrazier840]

Inconel cups?

[@100pyatt]

Good idea !

[@Gazika1984]

I damaged and burned two times Mercedes genuine heat shild and after that I installed vw heat shild and I forgot that kind of problem forever..

[@DieselPumpUK]

It’s good to hear your experiences, what was causing the failure and was it one cylinder in particular?

[@Gazika1984]

Three of them was burned number 4,5,and 6.but now ecerything is ok.I have installed your 7.7mm injectors.

[@georgemarshall6657]

What Part number are you using for the VW heat shields?

[@JamesParus]

That fuel goes fast. 150cc x6 = almost litre in such a small time. 10seconds?

[@AndrejSamuraj]

Guten Tag. kann ich so ein Motor bei euch kaufen ?

[@alexpr0gressive]

Just because it would be awesome, what really prevents you from building your own billet or cast pump or engine? Only cost or difficulties in the design process?

[@MrAndrius12]

They do have their own billet pumps.

[@alexpr0gressive]

@@MrAndrius12 I thought so but wasn't sure, my bad.

[@dancarter482]

Good pre-chamber, bad pre-chamber; _UGLY_ pre-chamber !

[@s3904393s]

17:23 ummmmmmmm🥴

[@dieselhog]

Silicone also gives you more horse power 😂😂!

[@martinsuperstar6049]

What happend to the patrol?

[@0tterthekulakking620]

Not all shirts have been received yet

[@martinsuperstar6049]

Thx, really looking forward getting a update video

[@Re_Kitty]

Can an NA 606 be turboharged? To how much power? I've been searching for answers for ages 🥲

[@DieselPumpUK]

Yes you can!

[@Re_Kitty]

@@DieselPumpUK thank you for answering!!! Can it be done with your billet pumps or kits or is that overkill for the max power the internals can handle? Do you know what is the max tested reliable power the NA can handle? Again thanks for replying