Meritocracy or Else | Dr. Adrian Wooldridge | EP 265

Dr. Adrian Wooldridge is a political editor at The Economist and author of the new book ‘The Aristocracy of Talent: How Meritocracy Made the Modern World.’
In this episode, Dr. Wooldridge and I discuss how his new book has been received, the history of meritocracy, how IQ testing shaped educational policy, group-based judgement, and the importance of defending liberal individualism.
-Links-
Follow Dr. Wooldridge on Twitter: ​​ / adwooldridge
‘The Aristocracy of Talent: How Meritocracy Made the Modern World:’ amazon.com/Aristocracy-Talent...
More books by Dr. Wooldridge: amazon.com/kindle-dbs/entity/...
-Chapters-
[0:00] Intro
[1:06] Reviews of ‘The Aristocracy of Talent’
[3:47] Measuring the Mind, History of IQ Testing, & British Education
[7:22] 11+ System vs. the Modern Prolonged Educational System
[10:22] Workplace Selection Tests
[11:58] IQ Literature & IQ Testing for the US Military
[14:55] Michael Young’s ‘The Rise of the Meritocracy’
[16:58] Pareto Distribution, Matthew Principle, & Creative Achievement Tests
[18:22] History of Meritocracy
[22:43] Conflating Moral Worth with Intellectual Ability
[24:25] Conceptual Inadequacy & “Bell Curve Liberals”
[29:45] Blank Slate Argument & Ethnic Differences in IQ Testing
[34:59] White Working Class in England
[37:45] Perception of Meritocracy in the UK vs. US
[42:21] Judging People as Group Members
[48:17] Distinction Between Affirmative Action & Diversity
[51:36] Idea of Meritocracy as Propaganda for the Elite
[54:00] Openness of Competition of Examinations
[56:10] Foucault & the Complexity of Perception
[59:55] Social Justice, Economic Efficiency & Growth Rates
[1:05:35] Challenges to Western Dominance
[1:10:59] European Ladder of Opportunity & Plutocracy
[1:14:32] Ethics: Levels of Analysis
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[@SocialEP]

The fact that we can listen to these brilliant minds discuss a complex subject without having to pay a $40,000 a year tuition bill is incredible. This is an example of how the unlimited amount of access that we have with the internet, should be used. Not swiping dating apps, and mindless scrolling through social media. But rather through lectures and conversations from rationale leaders such as Dr. Peterson and company.

[@TheEthinicTrender]

You have no right to lecture me for the manner and form I use the internet I pay.

[@tacticalorigin857]

@@TheEthinicTrender Good lord I can’t believe people like you exist. The fact that you took a general statement that wasn’t even directed to you so personally is scary. I’m sure no one gives a damn about your only fans and tinder subscriptions. Keep it pushing and stop making this wonderful compliment to Dr. Peterson about you.

[@mactheo2574]

@@TheEthinicTrender Actually he does have that right. It's called freedom of speech :) You're also free to swiping dating apps, and mindless scrolling through social media though

[@d3vilmaycry25]

@@mactheo2574 Relax, he's joking.

[@visualblacksmith2100]

I concur! We have the availability of the sum of humankind’s knowledge at our fingertips while we amuse ourselves with cat videos, social media 'comparinitis’ and the like, is squandering our precious treasure of time. "This species has amused it’s self to death” Perhaps Roger Waters was correct?

[@ihhazmi]

My two daughters, who have gotten 100% in their academic achievement throughout high school, one of them also has achieved 98% in a SAT equivalent exam and 94% in another exam called SAAT. In addition, they both attended an English for academic purpose course at UBC for about a year under a false promise that this is the only missing piece of their applications to get accepted (costing $CAD27,000). Then UBC, thinks they both are not qualified to be accepted, without explaining why! Although my daughters have a story to tell as immigrant girls from the Middle East and could have used that to get some "compassion" from UBC, I really wonder how big their chances would have been if they dared to show any sign of activism or identity politics in their applications?

[@hatimmansori4875]

You shouldn’t believe in something without any evidence of it.

[@ferndog1461]

If you are of Asian extraction, & are otherwise have the check marks in academics / volunteer activities/ leadership, chances are you will be refused acceptance into North American elite Universities. That's because the university desires a racial diversity of the student body.

[@BRAVE_NEW_1984]

wow! I'm end 30's, never studied, but would always have liked to get into topics deeper and get a degree. I recently heard about going to Uni in Ghana - cheap and cheerful and probably one of the few conservative and common sense places in this world ;)

[@arthurb8436]

​@@USAandokay he never said they were Muslim... I understand you make that assumption from him saying "Middle East" but still, those two don't necessarily go together.

[@hatimmansori4875]

@@USAandokay discipline most likely. Parents are super strict

[@justsomeguywithoutamustang6436]

Finally! Dr. Wooldridge is my favorite editor from The Economist back then, thanks for this wonderful exchange. It's a shame that this is all being swept under the rug until we just all 'BELIEVE' that these are how things should be done.. tsk tsk

[@veritasdude1358]

Excellent discussion 👌👌 Thanks to Jordan for his excellent works (I knew Jordan before he was famous) and for creating a great forum where we can all benefit from analyzing such great ideas. These ideas are necessary to preserve the greatest civilization on earth. -- An Iranian academic living in Germany.

[@douggardner8229]

I have heard Jordan talk about the military IQ test multiple times. The state of reality has led them to lower scoring standards for at least the last six years. The military has so many criteria for service and so few willing to do it that they have had to significantly lower the bar.

[@douggardner8229]

@ᴊᴏʀᴅᴀɴ ʙ ᴘᴇᴛᴇʀsᴏɴ I'll make a note to KZbin that you are a bot instead.

[@puttervids472]

I recall taking the Asvab and other tests in high school (1995) and having military recruiters chase me. For months they’d show up at my home etc. i took those tests one day on a whim. For fun . Not really being serious about joining up. It was after that , that I realized how desperate they were for intelligent people. It was like being the #1 football player on earth and being pursued by Bama , UGA and Notre dame. It’s a long story as to why I wasn’t of a mind to join up at the time. And it has nothing to do with not liking the idea. And everything to do with my situation at home. Just thought that kind of fit in with the comment here.

[@stephensinilas8611]

Im certain the actions of the usa military over the past. 70+ years are the dominant reason for the drop off. People have eyes.

[@stephensinilas8611]

That and the reasoning for 99% of recruits is pursuit of college $$ and healthcare. And college degrees are mostly useless now. Or. Atleast in 99% of cases. All my friends have 4 year degrees and i work at a supermarket with no degree and have no debts and a reasonable savings. People arent buying the bullshit anymore.

[@douggardner8229]

@@stephensinilas8611 the recent bungling of Afghanistan certainly didn't help. There are dozens of reasons people don't serve anymore.

[@danepaulstewart8464]

OUTSTANDING! Wow, what a great and useful encapsulation of the meat of these concepts and their associated movements. Bravo gentlemen! 👏

[@janefaceinthewind6260]

What an interesting and inspiring conversation! Thank you very much for this, Professor Peterson. My horizon widens constantly because of your fantastic content!

[@Platinum1812]

@@user-do2by8pp4n obviously a fake account

[@juniorvonclaire3576]

@@Platinum1812 He wouldn’t use ALL CAPS 😅

[@wretchedabyss1394]

I have an IQ of 164 (Mensa certified). I made a GPA of 1.5 and graduated on a technicality, they allowed it just so I wouldn't be 20 in High School. I proceeded to fail to integrate into society and join the workforce (I couldn't hold a job, and lacked work ethic and drive), and very quickly was forced onto the streets by my mother (father was divorced and lived in another state). I have never had a drug addiction or alcoholism. I just wasn't allowed any kind of support structure (or taught any discipline) once I became an adult, despite being deprived the opportunity to build one as a teen (Because I did poorly in school, or at least that was the reason I was given.) I lived in my car, sometimes I would crash in my friends dorms and sometimes even attend their lectures with them. I never enrolled in college (because the costs for a homeless 20 year old, without parental aid is beyond reasonable, and even applying for FAFSA would be declined without parental involvement until age 26, or at least that was what I was told by the community college and universities in my area that I was loitering in.). Society has failed one of the most intelligent individuals born in my area (There was actually a kid, I went to school with that also had a Mensa certified IQ of 188. He got addicted to heroin and overdosed.) Eventually I found "a" footing. Eventually I found Peterson's Channel, eventually I listened to his lectures, studied his syllabus, and read everything I could get my hands on for philosophy, phenomenology, and psychology. I have even expanded into economics and sociology. (I currently have an investment portfolio of around 100k) My point is, I am MADE for academics. I SHOULD thrive in an academic setting. I have the mind, the aptitude, and cultivated the skill for academic learning. They abandoned me, for ideology.

[@karenottenelias1471]

Sorry for your outrageous suffering but applaud your success. The treatment of very smart people that you endured seems to me would be less likely in western Europe, especially Scandinavia, but I have no hard evidence to support that intuition, just the personal experience of having grown up with European intellectuals. Re the alienation of the genius, isn't it true that early childhood education is largely about socialization? How are people like you or like me (140) supposed to fit in when the avg is 100? And dating? If you are a very art female? Ugh - stay away from male geniuses with their male egos.

[@plackiplicki3531]

As a Mensa member, I can certify that you’re lying since Mensa DOES NOT provide any IQ score, never did and never will. They only validate whether you’re in the top 2% of the population or not, nothing more. I find disturbing that people writing this sort of texts, boasting about their achievements and exalting their « high IQ » are unable to do even the most basic research, and end up mentioning Mensa in a manner giving away they’re full of crap.

[@Zara-tt7rh]

Just curious, what caused the initial gpa?

[@raphaelantoine7331]

There's a lot of people with150+ IQ on KZbin comments, so much so that together they would be more numerous than the actual number of 150+ IQ in the world

[@matiassella4935]

@@harrycooper5231 U JELLY BRUV?

[@peterzsirai5183]

Awesome.discussion. Very actual, very useful. Thank you both!

[@jasonroberts6372]

Great conversation and insightful opinions. Thank you Dr. Peterson!! Looking forward to the next one.

[@SightseerNW]

Excellent, I really enjoyed that conversation,and hopefully you will talk again very soon. Thank You for stretching my mind on a weekly basis😉

[@kemeras3689]

man alive, there is very few interesting people on YT anymore. Thanks for sticking around JP, this is a great discussion.

[@GeraldTodd]

I wake up early without getting up and just listen from my iPhone. Seems to be the best time to learn something. I wrote a book that explores “Historical individual meritocracy in a triune racial setting” The points these wonderful gentlemen cover are addressed in a simple manner

[@darrenpursuingtruth2895]

Thank you Dr Peterson for another enlightening conversation. Also to Dr Wooldridge for discussing his book, which will no doubt be a fascinating read over the summer break.

[@MarianaFarfanB]

Dr Peterson, your lessons are invaluable. Your discussions are so enriching and mentally stimulating. Thank you for your work and infinite selflessness.

[@Nico2010360]

Dr. Peterson, you did a great job of not interrupting Dr. Woldridge, and letting him finish his points. Thank you for taking the feedback from previous podcasts where many people pointed out you were interrupting your guests too often, this was a very pleasant listening experience

[@mrmashhead5089]

Thanks to the 11+, me and another boy from one of the poorest parts of Britain had the chance to attend one of the best grammar schools in the country. It’s a shame that this opportunity is no longer available for those in similar situations.

[@quantumfizzics9265]

Thanks to the 11+ I will never forget how hopeless I was and how much I wanted to die, especially as a 10 year old.

[@mrmashhead5089]

@@quantumfizzics9265 how very sad. I should imagine too much pressure was placed on you by parents or peers?

[@nickwilton6822]

We still have the 11 plus though ?

[@cosuinofdeath]

Buncha twats

[@jamesgibson538]

If you had the chance to attend one of the best grammar schools in the country, why do you say " me and another boy" instead of "another boy and I" ? That is grammar, no?

[@TestSubj3ct9]

I just want to inform you Dr. Peterson that I view nearly all of your videos without hitting the like button even though I absolutely love every discussion you've had. I'm assuming there are thousands just like me who support you in spirit. I'm going to start liking your videos so that they possibly get more attention. Thank you for your hard work, dedication, and perseverance

[@franklinfleming1237]

U better like 😛

[@kamal2toys]

​@Franklin Fleming .. m,,

[@JT-xg1nq]

Jordan Peterson's podcasts are the ones I subscribed without liking each and every one.

[@alottaguala9766]

Terrific conversation, thanks for introducing me to another great mind.

[@willin2]

Love your talks/podcasts Jordan. Thank you for all you do. This one is hard to hear compared to many others, as it seems the volume is noticeably lower.

[@BobbyC-be9vy]

When I was 11 (back in 1965) there was - if I recall correctly - an opportunity for those who failed the 11plus examination to sit a 13-plus examination two years later in order to get into grammar school, so there was a second opportunity to get on the better educational path for late developers, etc. Does anyone else have this memory?

[@Leon_George]

This route still exists for many grammar schools in the UK.

[@freddieroe8696]

There was still an opportunity to sit something called a 12-plus examination - about 18 months after the 11-plus - on application to do so back in about 2007, call it c.15 years ago. I remember a small number of kids in the first year of secondary who were leagues ahead of everyone else, despite having failed the 11-plus by some margin. A year, at that age, seemed to have the ability to make a huge difference in cognitive development in some people.

[@christinalw19]

Hi Bobby, we did not have that requirement in the US. In high school, grades 9-12, we were told in junior year, if I recall correctly, we were advised about SATs. I had just started high school in 65. In California, although I was unaware at the time and did not have parents who cared 🙄, I did well on my SATs, scoring in the 98th percentile. Maybe that wasn’t very good. Oh well.

[@catherinesummers5057]

I was one of the last … the last 11 plus year… 1973

[@gillianmcmullan6023]

I do-also a chance for joining the 6th form later if your CSEs were good to do A levels.

[@exla96]

This was such an interesting discussion, didn't see the time go by!

[@rekindlefitness]

Fascinating, insightful and thought-provoking discussion. Have put The Aristocracy of Talent on my reading list! Thank you both!

[@shedactivist]

I see a lot of deserved thanks to JBP but I'd like to also thank Dr. Adrian Wolldridge for his wonderful insights and analysis on this important subject.

[@jonathanspencer4834]

Agreed. He was the absolute expert on this subject here. He wrote a book on the very subject ofc and so brought great research and historical knowledge to the topic.

[@jamescoates3382]

Thank you Dr Peterson your changing lives for generations

[@bloviatormaximus1766]

or at least helping some of us see where stuff went all pear/gourd shaped

[@jamescoates3382]

@@bloviatormaximus1766 we are all still learning my friend

[@RonnSono-MassaAcoustics]

It's been a long time coming that heavyweight thinkers discuss the meritocracy openly, imho it's the only way, and the only way forward. Thank you

[@gregorykelly8000]

Why would the best person getting the job be a horrible world?

[@RonnSono-MassaAcoustics]

@@gregorykelly8000 The best fit inherently is the one with the most merit. It’s comes down to how you define that.

[@gregorykelly8000]

The doctor said it was wrong to give the best job to the best qualified. Why?

[@RonnSono-MassaAcoustics]

@@gregorykelly8000 the most qualified has the most merit. We are discussing the noun, right?

[@vishalpradhan3632]

Jordan Sir, I from India and I absolutely believe that your ideas would bless us.

[@geoffreynhill2833]

Dr. Wooldridge is particularly well-informed, nuanced and encouraging on the progress made in post-War British education, class and privilege notwithstanding. Perhaps the New World could learn something from its example.

[@nabridobcsje7345]

36:48 My personal experience of my peers in the 1960s in the North of England was that the English industrial working class viewed academic opportunity as a waste of time. A direct question asked to me as a young boy was this - "Why do you want to go to a Grammar School when you can leave the Secondary Modern School get a job and earn money in the factory at 15? " As a son of a second generation Irish immigrant family we were driven to achieve by our parents (mother in particular) and so I think that you need to look at the issue of physical mobility as a driver that creates the urge to progress. Once the risk of moving to another culture is taken, then the parental drive to ensure that the children succeed becomes paramount.

[@janefaceinthewind6260]

I'm so happy that this discussion is so much more balanced with regard to the time the participants get to develop their thoughts and speak!

[@gmw3083]

All bots here

[@jamesmcnicholas2554]

Wonderful podcast with flowing conversation from men who self evidently are at the apex of their game...

[@wandaposwa112]

Definitely my favorite interview.. very interesting topic

[@catlady9066]

Thank you both for a fascinating discussion. I am in favor of meritocracy but I think we have to allow many children, especially boys, time to mature before we give them tests to determine their path in life. Many boys are academically poor in their childhoods but get better when they become teenagers.

[@craigwillms61]

Well put, catlady...

[@Dee-nonamnamrson8718]

I shouldn't have been pursuing a career (still working amd contributing to society, just not a career) until I was in my late 20s. I was totally useless, incompetent, and stupid. Now im only partially those things.

[@LosZonga]

@@RyanMoreau I am sorry but you are wrong.

[@LosZonga]

@@RyanMoreau Sure, care to explain where this is coming from: ''Boys reading vision only really develops from about 8 to 10 years old.'' ?

[@LosZonga]

@@RyanMoreau Alright still, do you have any kids?

[@jonathanspencer4834]

What an awesome discussion. I could have listened for another few hours. Hey , you must get that guy back on sometime - so much sanity and clarity. Very refreshing.

[@gmw3083]

Bot bwain

[@sdlogs]

Anyone noticed the increase in stress levels in Dr.Jordan's face and considerable amount of weight loss too! Wishing him good health and energy to continue what he is doing❤️

[@nickjnow1]

@~43:00 minutes. I've always wondered about the mechanism that produces classes/hierarchies society. Dr Wooldridge's fantastic description of how simply making exceptions for various groups at Harvard produces an elite is enlightening.

[@Chris-cf2kp]

From what I've learned from Jordan's class(as in university) lectures, I have a notion that it could be attributed to the inescapable tendency for wealth to redistribute according to the Pareto Distribution, even if it's funneled to the poor, and where even while it's in a fair economy of supply and demand; a small minority of people get a huge majority of wealth, and it trickles down less and less from there. And not even by slanted manipulated means, but by competence. Whatever's going on to circumvent that outcome artificially, I don't think it will last.

[@ryu7817]

I very much enjoyed this conversation, thank you. I know it's unlikely, but I do hope, or would like to see, you make a case for, or against, the current state of South Africa, specifically. Where for example, when confronted on the dismal 50% pass-rate of high-school students, the response of the Minister of Education was to lower the percentage that students would need to pass high-school to 30%.

[@hamnkapten7977]

that is such an obviously poor decision on their part and doesnt require someone like Peterson to see the negative consequences. (education will only get worse, literacy rates will drop, propaganda will flourish, they wont be able to keep up in any way with the global market, etc.) because of the lack of intellectual sustenance in the question i feel like theres something youre looking for him to validate some opinion you hold in relation to it, but i honestly cant even find it. not trying to be a total asshole, but your comment legitimately confused me on multiple levels

[@ryu7817]

@@hamnkapten7977 There was no question. Obviously it's a poor decision. South Africa gets little to no international coverage, meaning no international critique to bad decisions. This, and the fact that the majority of South Africa's voters have little to no education of politics, specifically the global history thereof, means that those who rule are left to run amok. A platform such as this would surely help, but is not the responsibility of this man, hence the words 'unlikely', and 'hope'. You shouldn't jump to conclusions and believe yourself so readily.

[@ryu7817]

@@angrytedtalks It does seem to me that we live in a general society that increasingly values optics above objective standards - the way something looks is more important than what it actually is - a snake eating its tail comes to mind. May your kids find the tools they need to navigate this burden, and free themselves from it.

[@davio7031]

Until men put honor first again, nothing we debate or attempt will save this society.

[@watchinfireflies7201]

My thoughts, Exactly

[@edmoncleos7800]

No action is honorable if taken involuntarily.

[@stanleydagreat2337]

What's_your definition of Honor?

[@combativeThinker]

Just as the people have turned their backs on God, God shall turn his back on the people. We simply and purely deserve everything that’s happening to us.

[@VannywiththeFanny]

@@combativeThinker I've prayed my whole life and gotten zero replies. I believe in science and modern study.

[@HodsBroo]

Amazing topic, we should all let the best of us excel at our natural talents!

[@bvoyelr]

It's unfortunate that you didn't discuss the pragmatic failures of affirmative action: there's nothing society can do to actually redress them other than to tear down the barriers themselves. Putting an otherwise unqualified person into Harvard doesn't redress any grievances: it just sets that person on a course toward self-doubt and failure. Same with employment: if you hire a person for their marginalized status, you're just setting them up to fail at the job. Similarly, giving people living in a neighborhood that's blighted because it used to be redlined doesn't improve their lives - they spend it on immediate wants rather than investing it in their future. The "pull yourself up by your bootstrap" theory seems to be the only thing that works: telling people and communities that they can improve their own lives and encouraging them to do the hard work to actually qualify for the higher strata of society actually works, to the extent that the message is able to penetrate the culture that these people are forced to live in. That and savagely reducing crime by separating criminals from the population.

[@americanlady738]

Who are "them?" What do you know about American history?

[@primetimeseal8616]

It’s insane the difference between Jordan’s twitter and KZbin comments. We’re always here for you Jordan. We’re just not insane enough to argue with lunatics on twitter. Keep saying what needs to be said

[@robbiemedica2652]

To be fair, Jordan's volatile and divisive posts on Twitter vs his drawn out reasonable discussions on KZbin is also a massive difference. He needs to realise Twitter is not a good platform for him, especially since he loves to play devil's advocate, and the Twitter character limit is not designed for that.

[@primetimeseal8616]

@@robbiemedica2652 he definitely makes the same type of comments in conversations, but yea there is more nuance within the discussions. Twitter is also just like that in general. If he was polite it would be like bringing a knife to a gun fight. And he’s still not as impolite as the people calling white men racist, sexist oppressors. If he were to get as impolite as them there’s some ugly bombs that could be dropped

[@Matt-kt9nm]

The huge number of bots on Twitter would be a factor.

[@Friedrichsen]

Twitter is a filthy cesspool.

[@jacobmarczak7337]

Doctor P, thank you for all your amazing lectures and contributions to academicians everywhere. It’s a privilege to watch your lectures, I used to consider you my favorite lecturer of all time but then remembered that Evergreen State did a live Marxist uprising in their class! It was so real too the uprising and all!

[@oscar3490]

STOP DOCTORING THIS MAN! FFS it’s repulsive and pathetic. Take your cult thinking somewhere else.

[@hawkarae]

One of the big problems of IQ-based meritocracy is that it feeds the beast of disparate opportunity. Who is given IQ tests? Poor people? Not outside the military for the most part. I grew up poor and raised two sons in the so called middle class. Brilliant, creative people all around and yet who at last succeeded in any demonstrable way? Poor and brilliant you might run San Quentin or die in frustrated ambition, dissonance or malignant virtue. My sons are SELECTING as if from a menu and they are supported by concerned adults. They have a chance at self actualization by accident of birth and yet I have grit and compassion to guide me. Merit favors effort, work ethic and skin in the game; society formed otherwise is morally and fundamentally faulty in my admittedly personal opinion. Thank you for sharing your conversation. This is a way we might learn to play well together.

[@TSCStag]

Wonderful interview!

[@nuqwestr]

Lowell High School in San Francisco went back to a "meritocracy" . School Board voted to stop the lottery based system, but a court challenge is expected.

[@vhjvku79]

As long as the federal reserve money won't be involved.

[@DanHowardMtl]

This sounds like a great book! Thanks!

[@songezondungane5628]

Stunning and amazing discussion

[@zahraherrmann4935]

Thank you I am in the field of education and am very much interested in the topic. I will look up the book.

[@Mnnwer]

I forgot what a healthy and proffesional disagreement looks like, thanks for reminding us.

[@shawnbauer7889]

im very happy with the desire to see both sides. this was great. left and right are both filled with great and terrible ideas and everything in between.

[@abeybabyd]

The fundamental qualities that merit naturally seeks to bring to the top are the ideas of beauty, truth, and justice. However, cultures continually change what sorts of representations they use 'beauty' and 'truth' to signify, and so merit becomes disassociated from the essences it naturally strives to realize and becomes, in Foucault's view, merely the qualities or abilities that the culture or economy ascribes the most truth, the most value, the most beauty to. (Merit, virtue, value, truth, sublimity, goodness, justice, love and God are all synonymous signifiers in their essential function of pointing to an ideal state of being). A lot of the problem we face with perception is that we don't have a clear and standardized definition of these terms according to how they are (a) distinct from one another in essential function and (b) practically alleviate unnecessary suffering for everyone: they are so often used to point to representations of reality that stimulate pleasure. Most of what stimulates pleasure, however, is programmed uniquely in each subject; and so we need to figure out what experiences - what perceptual inputs; what psychological inputs - can produce pleasure (or avail the possibility of future pleasure) for every living being. Then we can ascribe merit most to those who provide such experiences, and then secondary merit would be for those who provide pleasure to the many, and tertiary for those who provide pleasure to the esoteric (Unfortunately, it seems that much of the academic world ascribes merit to the tertiary rather than the primary or secondary, on the basis of those who seem best to denounce their own will to power by wandering around in ambiguity and perplexity of interpretation). P.S. Pleasure here would be defined as the feelings of control, connection, well-being, and their associated sensual signals, though the former three psychological aspects of pleasure would be the most pertinent.

[@tristandecunha434]

Thus was great. I learned something. Fantastic guest fantastic host. FYI was listening while mountain biking in Mexico. That fact alone is quite something.

[@katiej5551]

I am a psychologist as well and LOVE your videos. I feel like they simply make sense. I hate that I have to hide my political leaning or risk termination from my job or being reported to APA for not being “woke” enough.

[@VannywiththeFanny]

What are some of your beliefs? I'll tell you if you should be fired or not lol 😆

[@beautifulintentions5678]

I completely get that I have wanted to speak up for over a decade, but I am well aware they just kill ppl like me. Plus, ik the secrets of so many that could easily pull a gun trigger & get away with it. Then the job thing, ik no one would want to hire me. One I would go against the ppl I went to college to work for, others would be afraid to hire me, just think I was completely crazy.

[@meandab]

@@iamanomas it's just an easy way for people to refer to views of the radical left. It's certainly less offensive and divisive than snowflake.

[@wickedlee664]

@@iamanomas Wrong. Like it or not it’s the word that points to this pathological package of ideas. It’s useful and most people know what you mean when it’s used. The word “woke” isn’t divisive. It’s wokeism that’s the problem. People using this word to better allocate their defence of our culture are the solution.

[@nathanluise9109]

@@iamanomas thought police

[@jbauman1111]

Thank you, Dr. Peterson. The value and return on investment of your catalog of videos, books, and products (the personality test) is inestimable. My family and I are grateful and I am so heartened and eager to see if you are involved in an educational curriculum that I can have my young daughters participate in. Thank you.

[@parahumanoid]

I have a problem with definitions at min 15. Merit is not talent or intelligence as an abstract notion. Merit is in the practical domain. It is the achievement relevant to the claimed position. Purely professional qualification is what gets you through the doorway, but it's merit that should determine one's growth up the hierarchy. And here merit means "success in achieving the actual goals and mastering the relevant toolset for getting things done, while adhering to the code of ethics that reflects the greater common good". When we consider this approach, there are barely any problems with meritocracy.

[@dannynufer1296]

I took the 11 plus because I was encouraged to by my school. I did no practice and got no tutoring for it and failed it by 3 marks. I’d never encountered an IQ test style before so it baffled me to begin with. My only regret is not becoming more familiar with the test style before taking it, would’ve set me up much better for life - but I do believe it’s a great system.

[@PhilJonesIII]

Same here. If you did well in the first two years of Secondary Education then there was a possibility of moving into a higher school. Against that, there were the teachers (not all) who adopted the attitude that 11+ 'failures' would not get far in life. One teacher I recall, said that with exceptional effort, we might just make a career as an electrician. Absolutely nothing wrong in that as a career of course but, to have set it as a, probably unrealistic, expectation, was criminal. Our French teacher actually said that there was little chance of any of us ever going to France so, little point in trying very hard. Sadly, I believed her which did not serve me well when I moved to France twenty years ago. And I taught Electrical Engineering for a spell at college before moving into Commercail IT. I also had the same confusion with the test itself. I had never encountered a test of that type. A little coaching would have made a world of difference.

[@JoanneWhitlock]

Fabulous, very interesting, thank you both.

[@shawntucker9283]

Very good discussion and unexpected connections to theism throughout, I'm very much looking forward to Peterson's new book as he gains these insights as to what drives the light and the dark

[@BlueEternities]

Spoiler: The same things drive both. Awareness is what differentiates the effect.

[@shawntucker9283]

@@BlueEternities That's a good point to think about, I guess we keep our eyes open to see light, and shut to create darkness. Attention

[@BlueEternities]

@@shawntucker9283 Well both the awareness of the observer and awareness of the actor can be modulated to strong effect. It's much easier to perceive the unity when you begin to recognize the lessons inherent in all things that we can possibly suffer as living minds. Also to recognize that no one is the villain in their own story, even if they truly believe they are. We act with goals, at very least to alleviate pain. And finally to acknowledge that all language is, by nature, not truth. It is simply an effective tool for approximating. And it can only approximate one perspective at a time, though it can be a more or less encompassing perspective. Most things we perceive as negative, are just implying that we must change, something we cannot avoid anyways. Though by changing ourselves and our perspective intentionally, we can avoid "negative" things almost completely. Sorry to go on. I just enjoy helping those who are interested in expanding their awareness as you showed. Also, it's a great opportunity for me to attempt to put these ideas into words. = ) I wish you all the best!

[@shawntucker9283]

@@BlueEternities hi, wow very cool, and inspiring comments. I'll try to think about what u said more in depth. And thanks. What I'm hoping is Peterson can articulate a more precise approximation of humanity in the near future. I've been thinking about this unity or lately I'm lightly equating it with this grey area that is the blend of what we might conceive as known/ unknown I'd suppose. There seems to be less drive to the known and more vitality to discover the unknown. This third animating spirit that we are acting and observing with kind of like flashing a light everywhere in the darkness looking for an answer. This snake in the walled garden Peterson talks about, has somehow begun to object itself as a social construct, idk. A collective conscious manifestation that we construct through social spell casting? Words? Idk A driving force from unconsciousness. As we have evolved and gained intelligences we have never removed it. It's obvious it was needed to construct the world. And perhaps maintain procession. It's sort of the animating spirit of the duality in ouroboros, proceeding, and looking for this utopia. Whatever that spirit is, can it ever give up that obsession and what would that look like, and mean to the human race. Definitely not meritocracy! Anyway, my nutty thoughts no doubt. Take care and best of luck.

[@BlueEternities]

@@shawntucker9283 The best place to look for ideas, that I've found, is in looking at how our bodies handle such differentiation of tasks. I think if we begin to look at what connects us, and how similar we all are, it's inevitable that we realize that we humans are like cells in our bodies. Our task is to find what we're good at, and do that in a way that we can all benefit as much as possible from the skill. I think lately we've just been creating reasons for people to not give everything they do, their all. A solar flare could really put things into perspective, huh?

[@Salvag3dHalos]

Just bought this book. I am Looking forward to the read.

[@Yannis2022]

Looking forward to listen to you from the audience the next time you visit Sweden.

[@steveodavis9486]

Without meritocracy you will have mediocrity or worse. Unqualified people are dangerous in positions requiring competence.

[@TheJpwzrd]

Makes me nervous about “special class” hiring quotas

[@theresasauer6761]

Has there been any research to compare achievements of intellectually similar individuals in relation to their economic, familial situation and educational expectations? In my hometown, we had a African American high school that graduated a high degree of high performing individuals prior to desegregation. In a documentary about the school, it was noted that the faculty had a higher education rate than other local high schools. The students and staff interviewed all mentioned that there were extremely expectations for them to do their best. I wonder if lowering of expectations isn’t a contributing factor to lower achievement across cultural and economic classes.

[@attackman4458]

This guest was really interesting! Might try find more of his talks.

[@desbell7431]

Thank you Jordan 🙏

[@studmuffin1217]

All civilized nations should be working toward a geniocracy for the benefit of the planet and its inhabitants.

[@beautifulintentions5678]

The other things is their dumb rules. My son passed every exam with flying colors but didn’t turn in his homework so he would receive lower grades. When he was getting straight A’s he was in accelerated classes every school was fighting over him because it brings their over all test scores he is considered minority his dad is black, or African American even though I don’t agree all colored ppl come from Africa. Anyway, then I went to pick out his classes with him I told them I wanted him to have a study hall so he had his evenings free to work with me. He was in trouble in no time after the school year started this was when he started high school. He was in trouble because they dropped him down to basic classes he was bored as hell all because he couldn’t have a study hall & be in the classes of higher level learning. Sorry I can’t remember what they actually called them. Basically the rules are dumb as hell. They never even called me to tell me he couldn’t be in the classes we choose at open house. He was in all the harder classes math,social studies,English & history. I’m telling you. My daughter IQ was 169 she the one that hung herself. In grade school I went to the school & told them to stop sending her home so much homework. I said I have other things to teach her then just math reading & writing. I said you have her all day it doesn’t make any sense the amount of homework you send home with her. She was in grade school. I’ve watched these schools pass these kids that can hardly read then badger the children that excel. I’m telling America has some serious issues in these schools.

[@brandonmay3094]

👌🏼it’s a level of internal destruction and subversion of the society, that I don’t think humanity has seen yet. When the fairytales are wrapping up, it seems those that have power will destroy everything and future potential of the populace, to maintain the image of the fairytale they have power mechanisms over.

[@communityhealthchannel7213]

I am so sorry for the tragic loss of your daughter. Is there no charter or private school near you that will give your son a scholarship? If ever I heard of a deserving case, it's yours. If none, then take your son out of school before they destroy his love of learning. Universities are now more keen to accept those children that were homeschooled or better still, unschooled over those that took the traditional route of graduating from high school. Why? Because they have proven themselves to have self discipline. Even 30 years ago I had the same problem with my sons' school. Straight A student, but failed his homework because he never did it, so his grades were affected. What's the point? If the student understands the work, then homework is just busy work. Its' training our children to shut up and obey. Our schools need a complete overhaul.

[@cloudcyclone]

Excellent discussion. I feel strongly about taking advantage of talent skill and intelligence for all in society. Its only natural to incentivize people who crave knowledge and make the world better overall, doesn't matter where/who it is. Sounds like 10% of the population is on the high end and 10% is on the lowest end for IQ/effectiveness scales, and I'm pretty sure the top 10% contribute more than enough to float the bottom 10%. 10% usually isn't a huge problem in general, except something like a contagious disease. But also we all judge in useful ways each other when we meet and spend time together[saying everything you know about a person is a judgement/reconciliation of the information you have about them], and you accept all things from a person at face value in general, so there is no inherent shame to interacting with a person based on the apparent facts about them. [I hope] Most people use the information they gained about a person for that persons benefit, and thats just part of humanity. I'm aware there are manipulative people but most don't want to spend mental energy on something like that imo.

[@ratnalubis1591]

Dear Dr. Adrian Wooldridge & Dr. Jordan B. Peterson, this is VERY INTERESTING. Hal inilah yang dilakukan ranking dan rating dari negara-negara PINTAR CERDAS itu kepada perguruan tinggi di negara-negara berkembang. JAHAT dan JAHAT. I call this "KNOWLEDGE FEUDALISM". Again thank you so much.

[@jrs777777]

Does the Asian emphasis on duty and cultural tradition of obedience to parents/elders (in short, consistent discipline) factor into their enormous achievements in academics in the U. S.? Or is there a biological/IQ component?

[@ferndog1461]

" Tiger Parenting. " Amy Chua's book brought the term into North American parenting slang. Students of Taiwanese/Chinese/ Indian / Nigerian parents have had academic success. The parenting strategy of Tiger Parenting is the key. Some of that is covered in Chua's book.

[@philosophiahelvetica]

No wonder people hate you so much - you speak common sense, logic and reason, something most people at universities cannot handle these days.

[@VannywiththeFanny]

His Twitter stuff is insane these days tho lmao

[@philosophiahelvetica]

@@VannywiththeFanny In what sense?

[@VannywiththeFanny]

@@philosophiahelvetica In what sense what? Are you playing dumb? He's out here dead-naming trans people like he's lost his mind. How can such a well educated man STILL end up losing his mind? Really tho, I'm seriously asking. Didn't he have a drug or pill problem? He's been wild lately.

[@bennichols561]

@@VannywiththeFanny are wokesters like yourself required to do a tour of youtube?

[@twntwrs]

Read the article: The Intellectual We Deserve by Nathan J. Robinson; listen to the Sam Harris podcast with Peterson: "#62 - WHAT IS TRUE?" and Peterson's debate with Matt Dillahunty on KZbin.

[@anthonydavinci7985]

Excellent topic, pertinent to societies all the way to each individual and determines , if their's a future . Meritocracy ,The metaphysics of life or death. Well done'' J P THE MAGNIFICENT''

[@BdDaBOMB]

🔥 30:41 music to an obsessives ear! Many of the like find romance deeply deflating as most spouses tend to hold the disposition to deincentivize production in the name of rest or some strange complex regarding competitive independence.

[@xchazz86]

Inheritance, crony hierachies and closed loop connections has always been the dominant social structure and still is. Meritocracy has never been the dominant methodology except for those few technical roles where it is absolutely neccessary but those positions holds no power over the exeuctive and management titles. Its like we live in a parrallel universe where there are two rules. One for the haves and one for the have nots

[@toby9999]

There has to be a hierarchy of roles. I don't see a problem with it. I don't want to be a manager. Others do. It's not always about haves and have nots.

[@xchazz86]

@@toby9999 Hierachies are fine when its based on competence, capabilities and experience. The problem is most hierachies are not based on merit but who you know and which family youre born into. Thats a receipy for disaster.

[@robbiemedica2652]

Or maybe, what defines merit in a management role is entirely different to what defines merit in a technical role. People who are good at management don't even necessarily need to be that high in IQ, but they have to be disagreeable enough and also conscientious enough.

[@xchazz86]

@@robbiemedica2652 Thats correct, management skills are dependant on experience. Competency and reasonable foresight is hugely important in management, this also a skill. However most managers are completely incompetent and cant think critically beyond next months bonus cheque.

[@maynardgent6708]

I've still yet to hear a convincing argument for affirmative action, righting the wrongs of the past can only work in theory but not in practice. The fundamental issue is that no one can give an adequate indication of when affirmative action has been deemed to be successful and therefore when you stop doing it. Do you keep doing it until certain groups are now exactly as successful as other groups? What if that never happens? What about oriental groups who do better than whites? What about groups of whites from Extremely underprivileged backgrounds who fell foul of the demise of industry in those areas? Is being victim to socioeconomics in one area worse than in another area? Tell that to some white kid born in Appalachia without a pot to piss in.

[@elijahgooley385]

Its almost like affirmative action is bad. Looking for justifications is as simply is finding the reasons people lie to themselves and how when those people hold power, those lies affect the culture. For better or worse.

[@TheWeebinar]

Well said. Even though it is often based in a noble ideal of recompense it really boils down to being a method of legislating equality of outcome which, never works out well and, is entirely anti-meritorious. Now if we could find some way to make sure that we preserve equality of opportunity and eliminate any unjust bias, that would be vastly more beneficial to a society and would ensure that it succeeds based on the merits it's people bring to the table instead of one small piece of the identities they are born with.

[@manmanman4825]

The majority of university graduates are now women (it's around 60/40). Do we talk about how we need more men to graduate now? No, we're talking about why we don't have 50% women in STEM. Women under 30 on average make more money now than men. Are we happy now? No, we still talk about how it's a problem that all women on average make less money than all men. It will never be enough, it will just go on and on and on until the pendulum has swung way too far and will come crashing back at full speed I guess.

[@americanlady738]

@@manmanman4825 White women followed by immigrants and their descendants are the beneficiaries of Affirmative Action. The 1964 Civil Rights Act brought about Affirmative Action which was originally written to heal the wounds of 250 years of American Chattel Slavery and 100 years of Jim Crow; only Black American descendants of USA chattel slavery were supposed to be the only recipients.

[@bryanhaycock672]

Thomas Sowell has given a very persuasive argument against affirmative action.

[@catherinesummers5057]

Wonderful soaring heights of excellence will emerge from this.. mark my words!!!!👆

[@markheidel6491]

In reference to the 'academies' in East London and the surprising results, one of the possible responses could have been a reference to a high school that was established in Washington DC after the Civil War. In a book by John McWhorter, if I remember correctly the name of the school was Dunbar High School. In that school the children of freed slaves could send their children at little, or no cost and they were initially taught by motivated and talented persons who had previously served in the 'Army of Emancipation' before the war. The results were not merely encouraging but the results, according to McWhorter, were so staggering as to defy any and all expectations. The academic achievement of the school put it as one of the top high schools in the nation. I think samples like this speak to the latent talent that resides in those untapped resources but does not truly answer the question that Jordan puts, that the achievements of children of the different racial and ethnic backgrounds have shown disparities that have been somewhat intractable to resolve.

[@nikkorain680]

Dr. A has a very neat library. Random observation .

[@LosZonga]

I find it difficult to understand the social dilemma of meritocracy. Firstly it will ensure the best talented people to get in positions of competence and keep them driving an overall improvement for all. It is easy to think that people that have no real skills but chosen because of policy, are the right thing, and I doubt that socialist view because is feeding the wrong narrative: will a socialist want an expert when operated or a beginner? will a socialist fly with a no experienced pilot? will he/her agree to be driven by a non experienced bus drive? will he/her agree to have teachers that teach dogma instead of information needed by the certain curriculum? My point is that when discussing idea of social integration, socialism is using an ''all inclusive'' theory that in fact has no coverage in real life, but it sounds good so is appealing. In fact, in reality it has no applicability. The capacity to learn how to learn, the capacity to develop critical thinking is against dogma. In dogma, you are not allowed to ask certain questions, you are not allowed to talk certain subjects. Socialism is a religion and God is the government. I know we surpass that conclusion over 80 years ago, why do we waste our time talking about it now?

[@travisholmes3751]

I believe this guy still calls for mandated diversity because something is owed to non-immigrant relatives of American slaves, according to him.

[@LosZonga]

@@travisholmes3751 In war and killing, nothing can be replaced by the ones that survive it. For sure, bending to natives and showing the remorse by fast forwarding them to power is not a way of life. This people, the ones that survived, are proud. Should allow them on the back door because some of us feel ashamed of what our ancestors did? Maybe. But, did we ask them if they want that? Did we ask them if they want to prove themselves? I have lived in socialism / communism. Is not nice. Is not good to have the gov ''taking care of your needs''. It sounds appealing to the ones that hear the idea, but living in that idea is far worse than capitalism ever could be. I don't say that capitalism is perfect. It is not hence you come to the table maybe with nothing. But from nothing, something will be made if you culture your skills, if you follow your heart. In socialism, you have no heart and you have no dreams. You simply don't know how.

[@tagontag]

I love how Foucault's works were critically addressed! Love it!

[@pechoja]

Early reading makes a huge difference. My dad taught me to read using the newspaper. He had 8th grade educ but high IQ. I graduated with high honors BS after late start educ at 29 starting CC. Opportunuty and affordability. America gladly spends more on prisons than educ. Stock profits to cage people instead of giving them education oportunities. We spend too much on sport stadiums students pay to build making educ much more expensive. Keeping minimum wage so low keeps opportunity out of reach for famililies. He sees the whole picture. No snobbery with Dr. Wooldridge.

[@hoosierdaddy2308]

Thanks for speaking the truth ♥️♥️

[@cheesycheese4989]

✝️

[@hunterponton183]

Hello Dr. Peterson I have recently acquired some professional help from a therapist because of the insights you've shown me over the past couple of years. I am at the time of posting twenty years old. I have read 12 rules for life a few times as well but today I had an oddly strange opportunity. I was speaking with my therapist and I started quoting words from your lectures when all of a sudden my therapist asked me. "Who is Dr. Peterson?" I went down a rabbit hole mansplaining on how great your work truly is. Long story short I recommend a therapist to a therapist. Life is a funny thing.🤔

[@sharpen-up]

This was just fascinating 🙌

[@Mishkola]

Dr. Wooldridge began a decent case for affirmative action, of a sort. I'd like to hear him expand on where he sees the gap in opportunity that would make these measures necessary, as I remain hesitant about the idea.

[@su8096]

Thank you , I’m always enjoy listening to you

[@cheesycheese4989]

✝️

[@sunnyday5621]

Gifted programs in the US will be back with the Supreme Court Ruling that the federal funding is attached to each student, not the institutions. Meritocracy will be back. Industries will subsidize for profit schools that are will to concentrate gifted programs in the area of workers they need. Trade based schools will be back. The incentive of receiving an education where jobs are available will be huge. The elitists educational institutions will see harder enrollments. Along with renewing a good basic education, basic work ethics and business will also be emphasized. IMHO

[@steveodavis9486]

I hope you are right.

[@MM-vs2et]

Meritocracy will return when the income disparity is gone. China can do it because they don't have any, or are very minimal. Until that happens, meritocracy will continue to benefit only the wealthy. Further widening the gap

[@gauloise6442]

@@MM-vs2et Meritocracy will return when the system collapses due to systemic incompetence and we need to rebuild from the ashes.

[@toby9999]

@@MM-vs2et What did you mean by income disparity?

[@Dee-nonamnamrson8718]

@@MM-vs2et China has massive income disparity. China isn't even communist anymore, it's more similar to German National Socialism than it is to communism. The treatment of the Uighurs is even analogous with Jews under the German National Socialist Party.

[@Aaron.Church.Solomon]

To production: audio is significantly lower on this video than other KZbin videos I listen to at work. Please adjust as best you can manage. Easier to lower volume than to raise past the max.

[@RandomdPerson7]

It's good to see Jordan talking to self-proclaimed racial collectivists. I don't think racial discrimination is a good thing but it's nice to hear the opposing side of the argument, even if it's just "I think it's good" more or less.

[@julieannboone80]

I don’t like having a long preview. I don’t want to hear the same thing twice. But I still love JBP!! ❤️👍

[@hope1416]

JBP: Define "long preview".

[@m.thousands1848]

That wasn’t all that long, man. Be thankful for the content, sheesh.

[@Rom2814SK]

@@m.thousands1848 Sharing feedback doesn't mean she isn't thankful - I think her statement was constructive and positive. (And I agree with her constructive feedback - 90 second preview is too much.)

[@vhjvku79]

Time is a relative term comrade.

[@nadeemamode]

Have you heard of the latest covid case numbers? If not, you will tomorrow and the day after

[@beautifulintentions5678]

Yes we do love Peterson. He is brilliant & as real as a human can get. I love that he doesn’t back down & is beyond possibly the smartest man alive.

[@gmw3083]

Bots aren't smart but this place is packed with em

[@lizzytheepiclizardgibb9571]

Idiotic statement

[@stephenarling1667]

@@gmw3083 Daniel Tammet is demonstrably smarter yet.

[@gmw3083]

@@stephenarling1667 ok

[@twntwrs]

Read the article: The Intellectual We Deserve by Nathan J. Robinson; listen to the Sam Harris podcast with Peterson: "#62 - WHAT IS TRUE?" and Peterson's debate with Matt Dillahunty on KZbin. All is a freely available on the web. Sorry KZbin doesn't seem to let me post links.

[@violive7569]

Thank You

[@jjtheherald008]

Jordan Peterson, you are doing much better at interviewing. Great job! Hardly any interruption I've noticed. Personally couldn't believe that you let the guest talk so much. Was very impressed! You're getting better, less talking and let the guest speak more. Comment made at the 47 min mark.

[@karenottenelias1471]

One of the problems with ongoing meritocratic testing in secondary education (education of adolescents in the U.S.) might be the voluminous increase in almost all subject areas that is ongoing at all times. In the late 20th c, social studies in high school and teaching social studies in graduate school could barely get through the Second World War. Not only are there more years of history as time.passes, there is more written valuable history in "The Academy". In science,.maths and technology, there is obviously an explosion of new material at the college and post-graduate levels, advances that impact secondary education prep for post-HS ed. Literary criticism also increases massively. The comprehension at a post-HS level of the complexities of political science and economics need ever greater preparation in adolescence. It is thus becoming increasingly impossible to educate the average and often unmotivated adolescent sufficiently to be prepared for profession-based college education. It is impossible for the schools to do so. And it becomes increasingly difficult to glean those youngsters for rigorous pre-professional college education. In light of these increasing hurdles, the liberal order seems like a pragmatic default.

[@juniorvonclaire3576]

Perhaps a college education, versus other types, should be chosen less often and find itself, as a result, with greater competition in trade. Alternatives for individuals lessens monopolies.

[@gauloise6442]

At least for literature, go back to the core curriculum of the classics and leave the rest for university, most of it is just over-hyped in any case. Same could be said of civics, which they stopped teaching in exchange for who knows what. The problem is academics always overcomplicate things. I learned more on so many subjects from three-minute Schoolhouse Rock cartoons than I did in school, where we were taught nothing about the Constitution (and I mean nothing) and almost nothing about basic grammar. But we were taught a lot about being yourself and expressing your feelings, and how it was okay for boys to cry and play with dolls, which there seemed to be endless time for.

[@karenottenelias1471]

Trade schools vs college is another conversation altogether. There is an overflow from HS subjects into the college years partly because of my point that there is more and more ground to cover but also because teenagers are promiscuous in recent generations, and using drugs and alcohol, therefore those who can afford to go to college and are willing to go through the process are being fed secondary education in college. Very sad to hear about how our schools led to teaching it's ok for boys to cry in lieu of teaching the classics etc. In Europe, at least in the time of my parents who had been born approx 100 yrs ago, the secondary sch teacher was respected the way the U.S. respects college professors, and the respect was deserved from what I gather. My mother got 2 yrs college credit for her secondary sch Ed when she came to the U.S. as a WWII refugee. Why is it that our brightest and most talented citizens do not become teachers? They don't want to be part of a baby sitting institution. Sounds very cynical but dumbing down Americans since the American Revolution must have been profitable for industrialists, war machines, and other very big business. Those of us in the dumbed down U.S. might do better on the upcoming Fourth of July celebrations to recall the ideals of our great Constitution, not the ideologies of very poorly educated extremists.

[@jamesclarke2789]

@@karenottenelias1471 I don't disagree with you on most of what you wrote, but your negative view about 'teaching boys that's it's ok to cry' is at best unhealthy. Teaching younger males on how to healthily manage their emotions and mental health is a perfectly reasonable objective, given the ongoing increase in mental health issues across all age demographics including younger people. And part of managing that mental health is not trying to bottle up everything and to be able to recognize, accept and process difficult thoughts and emotions in a healthy and realistic way. If crying is part of that process, which it often has been historically and currently in many cultures around the world, then there isn't anything wrong with it.

[@karenottenelias1471]

@@jamesclarke2789 Totally agree. I was reacting to another commenter and should have clarified that that was what I was doing. That was what he remembered of his education.

[@jrs777777]

Very great discussion. As a Christian, my natural question is : "It is necessary for those of merit, creativity, & talent to lead things, especially in the long run, but what/how can something be done in a capitalistic society for those not at those levels?

[@cheesycheese4989]

✝️ JESUS SAVES NEVER BLASPHEME THE HOLY SPIRIT YOU MUST BE BABTIZED FORGIVE AND FORGIVE IN ADVANCE JESUS SAID IF ANY MAN WANTS TO FOLLOW ME FIRST LET HIM DENY HIMSELF AND PICK UP HIS CROSS AND FOLLOW ME!!!?⏰✝️🇮🇱

[@HestonMMA]

If what you are implying is that we can trust and wait on the son of god coming from the east on golden chariots...Probably not. If you are talking of so called god fearing men and women to step up and lead, let us hope not. Religious fanatics as political leaders have historically been highly volatile.

[@thesanfranciscoseahorse473]

Truly God fearing men and women are the reason the west has thrived and Judeo-Christian morals even exist to begin with in the western world. Religious "fanatics" as you describe them it could be argue were often not motivated by love, but sort of a need to be "right". The original scriptural apostles promoted ideals that caused the early church societies to thrive. We need more God fearing people, not less. Not self serving fanatics.

[@HestonMMA]

@@thesanfranciscoseahorse473 The reason the "west" has thrived is not actually singular. As to what standard you can judge one man to be truly god fearing and another not, I don't assume to have that power and hubris is not far off from those who assume they do. To oversimplify a complex situation like the socioeconomic success of certain cultures is just another way of being wrong. The Religion practiced by the founding fathers would be unrecognizable to the christians of today, and while it was a motivating factor, the desire to live without accountability to a crown and less taxes played just as much of a role in the development of the western culture in the north americas as the idea of the christian god.

[@paolohollands2403]

would love to hear your thoughts on dyslexia and entrepreneurial men. a glimpse into overcoming charactor assisnation out of the gate. 57.

[@ooweeeooweee8871]

Dr. Peterson, I am a biostatistician. If the distribution is not normal, I recommend using a nonparametric model. If the outcomes (y) are continuous, maybe use something like a Wilcoxon Signed Rank Test or something of that nature. There are of course other nonparametric models that you could use... As a biostatistician, I always expect for biological data to be not normally distributed. Biological data is always complicated because there will always be an interaction or confounder. You could maybe just state this in your limitations section of your white paper. You should also try to introduce some stratification to help deal with confounders and other forms of interaction which can be influencing your outcome.

[@lorellgingrich6603]

It appears that the far left in the US, while bemoaning the wrongs of the past against the Black population, refuse to expand the Charter School model that is evidently working really well. Black parents and people in the lower economic strata of society are clamoring to get their children into these Charter schools and begging for more of them but are being 'patted on the head' while their representatives (who put their own children into elite private schools) insist that the public schools are just fine - when they clearly are not - and are actively trying to reduce the numbers of these Charter schools. Thomas Sowell has spoken and written about this. As a person who started life with a plethora of disadvantages, managed to surmount all of that and while they were unavailable to him, that Charter schools are an excellent educational model.

[@TheJpwzrd]

Thomas Sowells book “Charter Schools and Their Enemies” is a great book. Actually, I’ve never found a Thomas Sowell book I didn’t like. The teachers unions and politicians that get into bed with them 🤮 the unions are deathly afraid of meritocracy within their own industry.

[@lorellgingrich6603]

@@TheJpwzrd I have read several of Sowell's books too. He is an absolute treasure.

[@OMEGAMUNOZ88888]

That's exactly what I was implementing with that you contribute to your social society by a positive progression of honest hard work on a merit recognition of companies or individuals contribution(s). See, the funny thing is that all this is already old jargon for social advancement in a world of no structure due to the fact that all humans understand the virtue of fulfillment We need to give more help towards education if advancement is to progress for life substance/sustenance. But some people do not have the just help to actually be able to contribute to their wellness in terms that are of value for them and for all. Technically inferring that man/woman has the capacity to understand if all aspects of social categories related to hereditary existence.

[@beautifulintentions5678]

His wife is so cute too. I love the video where she says that is an extrovert speaking out loud wo thinking. Their daughter is gorgeous. Ik we will see their son with them too. Or maybe that has been my hope for so long for them. I just love this family I can’t help it. I’ve been watching him since I think 2017 maybe 2018. Endless love to him & his family. Thank you Peterson for all the knowledge you share & all the gifts you gives us through it.

[@beautifulintentions5678]

His wife was speaking about their daughter. I wish I could remember the short video it came from.

[@quantumfizzics9265]

he made a video with his son and daughter

[@gauloise6442]

It would be really interesting if you could do an interview with someone about how giving everyone a university education has led to a workforce of unskilled, incompetent people. I know so many truly talented people who have dropped out of the workforce because they couldn't deal with the rampant incompetence and overall low quality of work in their fields. I was about to as well, but found a new job with a bunch of Boomers...and say what you want about that generation, but they are educated and skilled. Working there is a like a return to sanity and logic after a weird fever dream of buzz words and cult-like delusions.

[@geoffreynhill2833]

Thanks! ( From a despicable Boomer )

[@the2ndcoming135]

😂

[@nickbrennan3389]

Whats a boomer ?...i dropped out of working in companies, ive been self employed the last 15 years

[@vaddick]

I was raised by boomers that didnt much believe in being less than your best. Though part of an entirely different generation and its rough. Its legit keep the skilled people doing the actual work and promote the idiots to management.

[@thegeneralist7527]

Don't underestimate the power of experience. After a while you've seen and made a lot of mistakes, and you can instinctively smell them. Would you call that wisdom?