Metal Casting with Gemstones - a Lost Resin experiment by VOGMAN

[@bensgizmo2960]

I haven't tried casting in place yet myself. From what I've researched so far, most casters will use some boric acid in the investment. The garnet likely broke from thermal shock during your quench. Diamonds can take it just fine, rubies and sapphires start to get risky, and most anything else will likely fracture. Creating prongs on the inside to back set is an easy way to get the same effect with heat sensitive stones.

[@vogman]

I hadn't thought of that... the quench. Yes... could be.

[@bensgizmo2960]

@@vogman I've been a goldsmith for over 25 years. It's all about thermal management. Same thing will happen if you pickle a ring to soon after sizing. In general if it's too hot to hold in your fingers, it's too hot to quench.

[@vogman]

Well thank you again. I genuinely appreciate quality feedback like this.

[@noviceartisan]

I came to comment similar lol Was actually expecting this to happen from not having holes at the back to allow wiggle room for expansion of the metal, but you fixed that with holes! xD

[@HunterValleyDan]

@@vogman I wonder about another possible positive effect on using prongs instead of an insert. Even though its a ring and going to be worn on a finger (although what people do in the privacy of their own home and all that...) I wonder if the prongs would allow more light transfer and make the eyes a bit more sparkly?

[@aktronics]

Actually the broken gems looks perfect with this ring, gives it so much character 😉

[@vogman]

True... most of my castings look like that 😁

[@samsinger5135]

i agree it maybe a fail.. but the look of the broken eyes give it a look that you have to stair at and admire the detail

[@thenayansoni]

Hello! In case of "Stone In Place Casting", after casting you have to wait for the metal to cool down to normal temperature on it's own without using water. Thermal shock breaks the gems.

[@vogman]

THANK YOU. A few people have already told me this now, but I really appreciate quality feedback like this 😁😁😁

[@thefunkyhippy7778]

@@vogman Thank you so much for teaching us VOG. Thanks to you i have been able to start my casting journey. I wanted to know in your opinion what is the best casting resin for the phrozen mini 8k?

[@MrSanjacjewels]

I started casting jewelry in 1980 and have ruined my share of stones with cast in place, tricky at best. Like has been stated Thermal shock caused the stones to break. Also, to protect the surface of the gem add 15% boric acid to water you are mixing with the investment. You have to be quick on your mix and vacuum as it makes the investment go off quicker. Makes the investment super hard too so removal is a bit of a pain. Look forward to hearing more about the new resin. I use Resin Works exclusively for my jewelry business and love it.

[@vogman]

Thanks for the input David 😁

[@PaulDominguez]

I like the broke look and raw look of the ring. Looks like something from the bottom of the sea

[@vogman]

A lot of my stuff gets thrown to the bottom of the sea 😉😀😄🤣

[@LordOfJazz]

I subbed for 3D your printing video but I have ended up watching all of your jewelry videos too. Your presentation, personality, knowledge and honesty is what makes your content compelling to watch. If I didn't live in a flat I'd definitely give jewelry casting a crack. Thanks again for the great content mate.

[@vogman]

Thanks so much 😊 I really needed a comment like this today 👍

[@dangerousandy]

The humour in this video is brilliant 😂

[@vogman]

Many thanks 😁

[@noviceartisan]

Can't see any fault with your process outside the thermal shock issue, looking forward to seeing your next experiment with shiny rocks dude!

[@vogman]

I've already ordered some synthetic rubies, so you can be sure I'll be revisiting this one 😁😁😁

[@TheOriginalWilson]

Again, this is a video made for me. I really appreciate it as I'm learning so much from you

[@vogman]

Glad to help! 😁

[@Streamcatcher]

You should not put your casted object in cold water right after casting. Stones crack when cooled to fast. Just like hot water on a frozen car window.

[@vogman]

Someone else has just said that. Of course! THANKS 😁😁😁

[@josearmenta748]

It's a good practice to coat the stones with a mixture of boric acid (not borax) and alcohol before sprueing and adding investment, especially if you're casting with zirconias. Btw after casting, since you'll not quench it, you'll need to heat water with 20% of sulphuric acid and leave your cast in there to remove all the investment. Citric acid and ultrasonic just won't be enough. Great videos as always.

[@vogman]

Thanks for the share 😁

[@koolmoedee10000]

Always a lesson to be learnt, I still think the ring looks awesome and the broken gem is adds to the look

[@vogman]

Many thanks 😁

[@daykangemcutting8679]

it looks cool with half of one eye

[@markmorgan8378]

Diamonds next. Awesome video.

[@vogman]

As soon as I get diamond money 😁😁😁

[@lukearts2954]

Yes! The tracked rc mower! ♥♥♥ My all-time favorite project on KZbin! As for the casting, (I've revisited some of @olfoundryguy 's videos, remember him?) could there be an issue with turbulent flow in this way of casting? From what I understood, it's not only a matter of looks and possible lines that you can't polish out, but also longevity and strength. I can see various ways to introduce laminar flow, but it would require more metal to work with. Another thing that I've been wondering about, but haven't found an answer anywhere so far, is how your melted metal looks a bit viscous (unlike the awesome design of the ring that looks vicious, my apologies to the dyslexic communities out there) in the pour. The results look amazing, but I wonder how that high viscosity affects details. I know you preheat your mold, which will definitely counteract many of the problems that I'd fear, but it still has me wondering.... As usual, awesome video, fun to watch, great humor and awesome design!

[@vogman]

Thanks Luke

[@KrakenCasting]

Um... I actually love the broken gem. Gives it a neat One Eyed Willie/brutal pirate vibe. Nice work, as usual.

[@vogman]

Thanks buddy 😁

[@W.Keeling]

so dry, love it, and another great video

[@vogman]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@Voidsmyth1]

You actually needed to add those holes in the backer piece behind the gemstones anyway, as that allows light to pass through the gemstone. The light going through them is actually what makes gemstones get that sparkle that everyone loves. Even a diamond will look dull if there isn't light going through it properly.

[@Voidsmyth1]

Also, the garnets likely cracked during quenching. As painstaking as it is, I've had the best luck with letting the flask cool slowly in my kiln (I use a kiln as a burnout oven) and soaking it for a couple hours so I can scrape away the plaster without putting the gems through thermal shock.

[@zelf0moord0eend]

Hey VOC, the reason the stones broke is the temperature shock with water, even diamond breaks like that. Second the garnet could be treated, glass-filled it s called. Its like colour filled borax they infuse, this melts on high temps... i hope i helped you and maybe retry this, cuz this is very cool stuff to see. Keep up the good stuff !!!

[@vogman]

You're in good company buddy, a few others have said the same. I can't believe the idea never came to me. THANKS for the very thoughtful input 😁😁😁

[@Loneman_OG]

I don't typically like skull rings, but I _do_ have a bit of a penchant for skulls. I have a few assorted ones dotted around my desk and have a few on some of the lanyards on my torches & knives. That ring, however, could easily change my mind, especially one made from black-washed stainless steel with a couple of very dark red gems (or even black ones) for eyes. I love Celtic patterns and especially that angry scowl; it's a bit like the Black Templars chapter badge in my avatar. 💀👍🏻 I'm looking forwards to attempt video N°2; I'm sure it will be successful. 😎

[@vogman]

I'm not sure where the Celtic Knots came from... I just got carried away and out they came 😁

[@vickovaden8780]

I have alwayse been curious about casting in place. Thanks for the video.. ring looks awesome though. Even with the broken gem.

[@vogman]

Just remember I got it wrong this time. Maybe next time I'll get there 😁

[@vickovaden8780]

@@vogman I am positive you will. Can not wait to see what it looks like when it is all shined up. But even for getting it wrong, it still looks bloody awesome.

[@HunterValleyDan]

Nice one Geoff!

[@vogman]

Thanks Dan. 😁

[@JsStack]

That is really cool. Too bad it cracked. Here is an idea for you to try. Next time, leave the gems out and cast the insert separately. When you are done casting the ring and insert, put the gems in and then the insert. After fitting the insert in, braze it is place with a soldering iron. Then final clean up and polish. Not sure that is possible, but just an idea.

[@vogman]

Thanks for the idea 😁

[@GVDRAGONFISTS]

Man I really enjoyed this video learned alot...definitely deserves a part 2

[@vogman]

Coming soon! I've already ordered some synthetic rubies, so you can be sure I'll be revisiting this one 😁😁😁

[@MRSturm-uk6gr]

great video as always! Casting in place is something I have yet to try, burnout temps are different and even investment compounds can be different from what i'm told by other casters when I inquired about it.

[@vogman]

I always have to learn the hard way 😁

[@juanofthekind]

Approach from behind? Omg lol i love you

[@vogman]

I have to slip in the occasional innuendo. 😁😁😁

[@tjinc002]

Also when you put in the cold water from extreme heat could cause for the fracture to the gems.

[@Del350K4]

(i) What, a superb job you made of embellishing the skull! (ii) I can't stress enough just how much I agree with the very good point you made @ 1:52. (iii) I think it might have been the quench that did for the garnets. The experiment was fascinating to watch, and the insert is a cracking idea. It's very frank and open of you to allow us to see the videos of experiments which were less than a hundred percent successful. Respect!

[@vogman]

(i) Thank you kind sir. (ii) There are many ways of approaching these situations, but as I've gotten older, I've found stability and the certainty of a good fitting are better than more extravagant methods that perhaps require more effort to achieve the same ends. (iii) We all fail at times (see point ii) but the important thing is to enjoy the process and relish it. Even if people point and laugh, you have the satisfaction of knowing you had the opportunity to try - and you did your best.

[@Del350K4]

@@vogman Thank you for your well-considered reply!

[@justynea7171]

Awesome vid!! Would you ever do a Z brush tutorial?

[@keal.vietnam]

Video is great. I think the problem is that when you pour the molten metal in, then cool it with water, this causes the metal to shrink suddenly, and since the stone has no excess space, it cracks. , I think so.

[@vogman]

Yes, lots of folks seem to think the thermal shock is the answer.

[@soggymarshmallow]

My guess is that the heat stress followed by mechanical stress of the cooling metal caused the gem failures. Cloudy gems can be weaker too. The ultrasonic might have exacerbated existing cracks. I'd recommend a design that allows for the difference in thermal expansion rate between a more durable, heat-tolerant stone (white or black cz?) and the metal. Ultrasonics aren't usually recommended for stone set pieces because stones can be released from some settings, but I doubt that'd be an issue for your creative cast-in-place setting.

[@vogman]

Thanks for your input 😁

[@belminredzic301]

hello, can you make a video step by step how long does it take for the vacuum to work and how long does it take to bake the plaster? thanks

[@Protocol-X]

I agree with others, it actually looks good broken.

[@vogman]

Thanks Shawn 😁

[@caseyfuchs]

I am about to start my own first cast-in-place experiment using Siraya Tech or Blue Cast - do they need curing before I insert the gems?

[@rayvenstudios7967]

When casting with stones never quench. Should allow to completely cool then remove investment, will cause shock and shatter your stones. Same as when we are doing repairs with stones that can take heat but we have to let air cool. Best way to remove investment from your castings is jet wash.

[@vogman]

THANK YOU. A few people have already told me this now, but I really appreciate quality feedback like this 😁😁😁

[@stratagemsgemart]

Hello here is my input as a gem cutter your initial design with the seperate components should have been cast first and then gemstones inserted while having the gemstones submerged u could have heated the back to allow for soldering to secure the peace without to much heat going into the stones. As for heating stones in general suden changes in temperature should be avoided by preheating very slowly before pouring and slowly cooling would also be essential. the lower quality stones are prone to these effects due to expansion of inclusion or of cracks or vails certain stone react to heat well others definitely dont hope this help id be happy to help you with anything 🙏🏻

[@annadeathangel8557]

maybe the gems dindnt withstand the heat or didnt like the ultrasound cleaning, maybe you can cast the 2 3d parts separately and insert the gems after the cleaning and welding it together

[@vogman]

Thanks for the input 😁

[@catnamestaken]

Cool. Why can't you print those two parts seperately, place the gems in the eyes and then glue the second part to it?

[@vogman]

I could do that easily enough, but I wanted a solid, integral piece 😁

[@RobertHeibel]

How about a screw in place retainer? would allow for ultrasonic and cleanup before adding the gems?

[@vogman]

It's a though 😁

[@macgyvervanschwartzenstall4662]

That is pretty awesome. Any chance you can use a Neanderthal skull for a ring?

[@vogman]

I like that idea 😁

[@pherretofdoom]

Perhaps you could cast in two pieces and silver solder the backing plate in, assuming you can't find a solution to casting in place?

[@vogman]

I could, but I prefer the idea of a cast-in-place 😁

[@pherretofdoom]

@@vogman I can't wait to see what you come up with, I know you can figure it out! Love your stuff mate.

[@djcarrillo1200]

How would 1.1mm round natural diamonds do if casted in wax resin ?

[@limarismenos]

Next time use cz (cubic zirconia). They come in a very large variety of colours, are very inexpensive and can withstand the casting process. Just use the precaution of not dipping it hot in water, as others have mentioned, and you'll be okay.

[@vogman]

Thanks for the share 😁

[@bap20]

Done loads of cast-in-place jewellery. You have to use sapphire, diamond or CZ. Everything else (and even some sapphires) are too fragile. Garnets explode...

[@vogman]

Thanks for the input 😁

[@Urbinas00]

I work as a jeweler, and you had to wait for the gold or bronze to be cooled completely to prevent the stones from breaking, and then remove the investment manually, it's like when you have a glass of glass with hot water and pour cold water the glass breaks

[@vogman]

Thanks Jose 😁😁😁

[@FranklyWry]

I think you should have inserted the gems and the insert after casting the ring and insert separately. A little gold or silver solder after placing the gems and insert, and Bob’s your uncle.

[@vogman]

I wanted to keep things easy 😁

[@LeonardGreenpaw]

can all plaster be vacummed for casting like you do or do you use a special grade?

[@vogman]

No, only specialised Casting Investment Powder ( www.vegoilguy.co.uk/equipment.php ) 😁

[@LeonardGreenpaw]

@@vogman wonderful! Thank you!

[@jeffjefferson2676]

You should have never put the hot casting in the water. I think your garnets broke due to thermal shock. But there is no way to be certain. It is however very likely. Greetings, Jeff

[@vogman]

Thanks for the input Jeff 😁

[@sotkshadow8306]

Iv only used SLA resin so far with success in printing but I don't know anything about the resins is there a resin that cures really hard without being brittle as I have found with apoxy resins and SLA resin prints

[@vogman]

Siraya Tech Blue is known for its strength amzn.to/3dheHxO

[@burnologist229]

hello how much would it cost me to ask you to plaster cast a compressor wheel in allumnium bronze? i have attempted to cast the compressor wheel but it just ends up looking like a abomination

[@vogman]

I'm sorry, that's not the sort of thing I'm set up to cast right now. 😁

[@burnologist229]

@@vogman thank you for your time

[@GeorgeSanderson-q2u]

Don't put the gems in place before casting. Leave the back open and place the gems in from the back after casting. Use silver solder or epoxy on the back side to hold the gems in place. The gems could then be replaced in the future.

[@SuperRunico]

El casting plus se tiene que dejar enfriar solo por qué el golpe térmico contra el agua a las piedras las daña y lo mejor es usar circones blancos de buena calidad ya que los de color tiene a cambiar de color

[@vogman]

I never thought of thermal shock at the time. Thank you for sharing.

[@SuperRunico]

Una solución para no fundir con las piedras puestas ni hacer una pieza adicional en impresión 3d es hacer unas en la parte interna de tal manera que pones la piedra de color que quieras y cierras las unas, básicamente un engaste peros desde detrás

[@SuperRunico]

Si quieres volver a probar te recomiendo circones suizos del color que quieras pero antes puedes probar calentando los hasta el rojo vivo y dejándolos enfriar solo para ver si no cambian de color con el calor

[@paulrossell4884]

Personally i always bench cool. Always safer whatever you are doing.

[@Miketz]

Wasn't there a '70s movie by the name of "Carry On Casting"?

[@vogman]

There should have been. But I'm happy to invite any passing scantily clad ladies to join me in my workshop 😄🤣😁

[@WeaselJuice]

Thermal shock?

[@vogman]

It seems so 😁

[@juzensari2589]

yess zirkon kullan taslar patlamaz

[@MrDownRater]

This ring looks awesome, like and old pirate ring or something without the polish. The broken jewel only adds to to the effect.

[@charlesc8043]

How can I hire you for a few projects?

[@vogman]

It would depend on what the projects were. I tend to avoid casting projects as the costs and time involved are prohibitive. I don't mind doing a little design work though 😁

[@charlesc8043]

@@vogman that's what I am talking about the prototype for a project how can I reach you to send pictures

[@charlesc8043]

How do I communicate with you about the project

[@vogman]

Hi Charles. Initially just drop me a quick line via this form www.vegoilguy.co.uk/contact_general.php That will allow us to exchange email addresses safely and we can chat from there 😁

[@ChatterontheWire]

i think the lawn mower may been how I found you originally

[@vogman]

Thanks for staying with me 😁😁😁

[@zumbazumba1]

@@vogman You did some crazy sht back in days now i feel like your channel has turned into printer and resin reviews . I miss old you.

[@vogman]

I miss his health... and the spare change he had to devote to such pursuits. I don't miss the hundreds of hours invested for just a tiny handful of views though.

[@abwoturab29]

No, it's the way you cooled your mold, even the Ruby wouldn't survive that aggressive type of quench. You should leave it slowly cooling down that way you gonna succeed

[@vogman]

Thanks for your input 😁

[@marinusverster543]

When you cast inplaced gems do not quensh the flack let it air cool

[@ChannelHTS]

i think you have to use big diamonds lol

[@johnmccanntruth]

It’s a shame that happened. I wonder what the success rate is, say if you did do everything just right. Was it the garnet or something else…?

[@vogman]

It's not 100%, I know that. Casting in place is considered a worthwhile risk if it saves on the expense of a professional gemstone fitter. But when the value of the stones is too high, casting in place is usually rejected.

[@ISRAELRAVELO_ISEKO]

Dont put it in water! Only wait for it stay cool and brake the gypsum!

[@vogman]

Yes... I discovered that the hard way 🤣😂🤣

[@PBRJOHN684]

I have always been told that Jewellers won't quench a ring with gemstones or Diamonds set into the casting process as a real diamond will completely disappear and gemstones will crack due to thermal shock! I cringed when you quenched the the casting.

[@vogman]

Yes... I cringe now too. Can't believe the idea of thermal shock didn't occur to me 😁

[@PBRJOHN684]

@@vogman It escapes the best of us! the other day I was trying to make Tin Bronze and for the life of me forgot how to make it, It's all for an up and coming video where I visit the Parys mountain on the Island of Anglesey to explain where Swansea got it's Copper ore from Plus the Mixing of Cornish Tin for the Ancient Bronze the Ancient Egyptians used. Filming starts on Monday and if things go right this time should be ready for YT by early October!

[@2e0duz]

1 never cool gem stones like that that's why they shattered and not all gemstones will take heat like ruby's emerald`s opal and even a diamond can go if it has floors i wound cast the ring and insert separate and solder it or laser and laser saver for stones

[@vogman]

Thanks for the input 😁