Metallica Black Album Debate

[@attila7092]

There are many haters of the Justice album because it was the first one without cliff. I think it's their best!

[@ighfee]

If the bass had been mixed in correctly then yeah it would have been their best.

[@TroySaccary]

Eye of the beholder, my favorite track from ...And Justice.

[@ighfee]

@@TroySaccary right here, that was the first one my mate taught me to play, title track is killer too 🤘

[@TroySaccary]

@ighfee seems lyrics to that song are more meaningful ever since the boogeyman corona virus of 2020 and government over reaching authority.

[@JaggedDagger]

The Black Album is one of the greatest produced albums of all time. While being a good album is subjective, the quality of the production is top notch

[@EdwinCannistraci]

@@JaggedDagger That surely accounts for its popularity. Thanks for weighing-in.

[@attila7092]

I don't hate it but it was a huge step down from their 80s music

[@tw19771]

I think it's one of the best records they've ever tracked and recorded. Not because musically it holds up to albums like MOP, RTL or KEA though. I think it can't be compared to them in that regard. TBA has a musical niche the others doesn't sit in. That niche is to provide high octane excellent written rockers, that are accessible and can appeal to the masses. The earlier records really don't try to be accessible in that regard. In a lot of ways TBA has its own style, and thats why it's so successful.

[@EdwinCannistraci]

@@tw19771 Good observations. 👍🏼

[@Gregbaltzer]

My issues with the Black album at the time was that it wasnt as angry as i still was back then, so I looked elsewhere for music that gave me what Metallca couldnt anymore. I also hated the new fanbase and didnt want to be lumped in with all the people who were suddenly Metallica fans, because they were the 'it' band, and i couldnt get them to give any other metal bands a chance because they werent on the radio. Now i dont give a shit, but as a young metal fan it bothered me when ever people would come to my place look through all my metal cassettes and when they spotted Metallica thats all they wanted me to play. I eventually sold all my Metallica cassettes so they couldnt ask me to play them anymore.

[@ImYourOverlord]

You nailed it with the word "mainstream." That's the entire problem.

[@drumtum81]

Lots of people like it. For most bands, that's a problem most bands wish they had

[@ourheartscondemnyou]

Yo Edwin! Cheers to my whiskey brother. When the Black Album came out I was 15 and I remember how exciting it was to stand in line at Tower Records waiting to get the cassette ( there was something so innocent about that that’s hard to compare to nowadays, like a heavy metal parking lot ). Got home listened to it and loved it at the time. It was slower than anything they’d done before and to my then young ears it was heavier because of that. Used to love a lot of the songs on the record. The God That Failed, Through The Never, My Friend of Misery. Some have aged well. The singles.. imo not so much.

[@EdwinCannistraci]

Thanks for weighing in, my whisky 🥃 rock 'n' roll 🤘🏼brother! I likewise have fond memories of buying the cassette the first week it came out. And there is a case it's sonically heavier (fuller at least) than their 80s albums. Now watch gatekeeper metalheads start attacking me for simply liking the album...!! 😅

[@ourheartscondemnyou]

@@EdwinCannistraci it’s all about time and place my brother. At that time and age, it ruled. Now not so much. But ( to quote a song of theirs ) the memory remains 🥃 🥃

[@EdwinCannistraci]

@@ourheartscondemnyou 🥃😉👍🏼

[@S_CampbellFOC]

I was 11. it was sick... use your illusion and countdown to extinction all were in the rotation

[@EdwinCannistraci]

@@S_CampbellFOC The early 90s was a very special time in music: the last great wave of rock music IMO.

[@HammerHeart3229]

I don't know if this is a controversial opinion or not but I actually like Load and Reload more than The Black Album. I gotta say though The Black Album is a strange one for me, individually I like most of the tracks on the album (I consider Wherever I May Roam in particular to be one of my favourite Metallica songs) but for some reason the album just feels like a slog to get through whenever I try to listen to it in one sitting and I can't quite put my finger on why that is. Still, the album is absolutely Metallica's best sounding record from a production standpoint. Also another possible controversial opinion, Death Magnetic is my 5th favourite Metallica album! 😂

[@EdwinCannistraci]

Thanks for weighing-in and I love controversial opinions! I do have respect for the Load albums -- the band branching out musically and daring to play with their image -- and I like a few songs on the albums. Even St Anger -- though not a pleasant listen by any means -- I respect its "right to exist." 😅 It's pretty much all gravy after Justice IMO. Those first four albums are so great, Metallica made their big contribution to rock music as far as I'm concerned and could do whatever they wanted to do.

[@smoketreez666]

The black album is also my 5th favorite Metallica album. It's good, and i give it props for being so successful. "Sad but true" is my favorite song on the album. I believe you said it was yours as well in your ranking video. Listening to your video at work!

[@EdwinCannistraci]

@@smoketreez666 Thanks for weighing in. These days “The God That Failed” is my favorite track, but “Sad But True” is definitely my favorite of the singles. It’s one badass groove.

[@jagd8085]

It’s an awesome album, very groovy and mature.

[@Dutchswish]

Ive always said it’s an amazing album, but a terrible Metallica album. James vocals are the best they ever were, the production is nice, kind of aged like milk though.

[@Gregbaltzer]

How can it age like milk when it's stayed in the billboard top 200 since it's release, and still sells thousands of albums each week in an era when most people don't buy album? I hated it then but listening to it now it's the natural progression of Metallica. James even said recently that he considers it peak Metallica.

[@richtalksrecords]

Great video, and outstanding breakdown and contextualization of Metallica during this period. I think the separating the wheat from the chafe betweem this and the Load/Re-Load period is important because alot of that does seem to blur together in people's minds. And the whole Cliff thing...of course the band would have shifted and changed had he lived. Maybe the taste level would have been higher maybe the album run times would have been tighter. We have absolutely no way of knowing. Though it is far from my favorite album of theirs, the singles seemingly did the impossible, they were straight up the middle heavy rock songs that had instant (and then enduring) appeal, and then as you pointed out the album tracks were super solid sometimes great. Also, absolutely looking forward to the Black Sabbath ranking video!! Finally!

[@EdwinCannistraci]

@@richtalksrecords Thanks as always and it sounds like we’re on similar pages with Metallica (and funny that you would be tackling Lou Reed as I did Metallica, considering their notorious collaboration 😅). Hopefully I’ll be recording the Sabbath Rank-A-Rama this weekend. I know it’s been a long time coming…!!

[@polarnaut9645]

Booth writes about Cliff like he was the thrash metal stalwart rolling over in his grave when the Black Album came out. Yet he forgets (or is clueless to) the fact that it was Cliff who was classically trained and it was his writing that broke Metallica out from the standard thrash metal mold and made them stand out from the Big Four. I think he would have been perfectly fine with the Black Album.

[@michaeluy114]

Great video. It was enterntaining to watch. Hollier than thou is the best song on it and don't tread on me. It was good but not great. I also agree with the ranking even if I never listened to all their albums

[@EdwinCannistraci]

Thanks for watching and for commenting. And if you never listened to St Anger: you don't need to. 😅👍🏼

[@ighfee]

The black album was the reason Pantera got so huge in the 90s

[@EdwinCannistraci]

I agree. I also think it helped Nirvana and the entire Seattle scene. It doesn't get enough recognization in this regard.

[@S_CampbellFOC]

nah it was the earlier thrash albums. pantera put in the work grinding until cowboys hit. then it was a snowball running down the mountain

[@ighfee]

Well what I meant was Metallica lost a lot of fans to Pantera due to the perception of the black album being a sell out

[@EdwinCannistraci]

@@ighfee I think TBA helped Pantera on both fromts: they scooped up some fans who thought Metallica weren’t heavy enough anymore and TBA also gave a lot of people a taste for heavy music (especially on the grunge and groove metal fronts). And Pantera were a glam metal act before they changed their sound, so let’s not act like they’re somehow more “pure” than Metallica. As commercial as it is, TBA is still heavier than anything Pantera did prior to Power Metal.

[@ighfee]

@@EdwinCannistraci well Pantera, like guns n roses, may have looked glam but their music wasn't. Glam is motley Crue and poison. Plus, Metallica owe guns n roses because it was them in 87 that made hard rock mainstream. Before guns n roses, the heaviest thing you'd heard on the radio was bon jovi. So the way I see it, guns n roses started it, Metallica took it further and then the whole thing split in two with Pantera one way and Nirvana the other. I happened to love all of it, I never thought you had to be one way or the other. For us fans who were around at the time, 87-94 remains the best period in music ever.

[@bigjared8946]

If you combine the Load/Reload good songs into one album I think it's better vs the TBA in its entirety. Granted it took me about 20 years to really appreciate the former.

[@EdwinCannistraci]

@@bigjared8946 Combing the Loads into one album would at least give it a fighting chance. 😉

[@S_CampbellFOC]

those weren't bad... just some stinkers. guitar work and nuance deserves a second listen. I listened for the first time in a while, dope stuff minus 2x4 and aint my bitch type things

[@METALBENSCHRONICLES]

Great video bro yeah i dont go in that Mofos Of Metal room because of all of the ignorance in that room. As far as the black album goes i like a few tracks from it but cant listen to it anymore.

[@EdwinCannistraci]

Thanks, brother, and the burnout factor is understandable. I enjoy going into the Mofos of Metal group because they're so cartoonish and over-the-top it's funny...!!😅

[@jamesgwarrior1981]

There’s masses that say this their best album and then there’s masses that say no way in hell is this their best album. Only one things true. There’s masses upon masses.

[@EdwinCannistraci]

Metallica's next album they release in 5 years should be entitled Masses Upon Masses.

[@jamesgwarrior1981]

@@EdwinCannistraci 🤣

[@Gregbaltzer]

James said this is peak Metallica and that the era he is not fond of is the Load/Reload era.

[@Gregbaltzer]

Hot Take: I am a bigger Slayer fan then Metallica fan, but I think The Black Album is a better album then South of Heaven, which is Slayer's Black album. Having listened to Slayer sine Haunting the Chapel I could not express my disappointment over SOH. Other Slayer fans won't admit it, but Slayer made the Black album first.

[@EdwinCannistraci]

@@Gregbaltzer Slayer definitely slowed down the tempo w/South of Heaven, but I'd argue it's still not as commercial as the Black Album. Then again: Metallica was always more melodic than Slayer starting from the first album. I actually love SOH and would place it above TBA, but I'm also a big Black Sabbath fan and love a lot of doom metal and SOH has that vibe IMO.

[@buyaka2944]

An excellent response video to combat the close minds! I have never really listened to this album and later day Metallica, but it was mostly for a different reason. It was when they sued their fans that pissed me off and soured everything for me about them. One of my favorite bands ever, now multi-millionaires suing their lowly fans for basically engaging in modern day tape trading, of which they themselves were 100% guilty of back in the day when they were poor, young, but enthusiastic metal heads! The hypocrisy and bullshit attitude is always what pissed me off about it all. Now, many years have passed and I forgive (but never forget) their transgressions and have given them another listen and chance. I have been diving back into their early catalog after watching some current shows on the youtubes and really appreciate what/how they are presenting live. I will be finally purchasing the Black Album and giving it a fair shot as I have warmed up to a lot of the songs I already know from this era so you can make it 30 million, plus 1, albums sold. Also I didn't realize you did a podcast as well, but you have a new subscriber and I will be catching up on all the back episodes.

[@EdwinCannistraci]

Thanks so much for watching, commenting and subscribing (the Holy Trifecta!). Like I said in the video: the Black Album does have great deep tracks. It's definitely worth purchasing and enabling Lars to buy another Picasso...!!

[@buyaka2944]

@@EdwinCannistraci I'll probably get it used though.

[@EdwinCannistraci]

@@buyaka2944 That’s the way to go. 😉👍🏼

[@freeformrockpodcast9076]

Love the Album!! great Video as always.. It is great to me .. Yes Backstreet Boys sold a lot but no one buys them anymore!!

[@EdwinCannistraci]

Thanks and exactly: you can say sales don't reflect quality when talking about a current, fashionable artist, but when we're talking 30 years of people buying the same album, it's obviously something special.

[@ImYourOverlord]

Booth nailed it.

[@williamcozart8158]

Is that you on your sock account Jason Booth

[@ryanrussell9556]

I don’t like the Black Album, but I agree with every word of what you say here. I don’t like it, but I can objectively say it’s not a bad album. I will never understand the crowd of people who spend as much time talking about music they hate as music they like. Other than Van Hagar, which is a unique situation of a band I loved changing members and then shitting on the version I loved, I just don’t get wasting my time with music I don’t like. I was just talking about this topic with my 26 year old son the other day. He likes a lot of modern music, but he also loves a lot rock from the 60’s through the 00’s. With the reunion of Oasis (who we both love), there has been a massive wave of hate. So my son was like, “what’s up with all of the hate towards Oasis”? I had to go through a history of bands that got a lot of hate. I always thought it’s usually either a band that changed their style massively and pisses off their OG fans (Metallica) or a band that hits and gets so big that they literally change what’s popular in rock music (Nirvana, Oasis). Grown men spending a lot of time hating on Taylor Swift, Nickelback, Creed, Oasis etc…..I’ll just never get it. Plenty of music I don’t care for, but you’ll never see me comment on an article about Blink 182’s reunion tour. Why? 2 reasons…….1) I just don’t care about them. 2) like you said…..its lame AF to piss on the parade of the millions of people who are through the roof with joy because their favorite band from high school is getting back together. I know how great that feeling is (VH ‘07, Kiss ‘95, Faith No More ‘09 etc). I remember being annoyed AF with all of the haters flooding SM conversations to do nothing but be killjoys. Lame AF!!

[@EdwinCannistraci]

Thanks for watching and for weighing-in. And yeah, it definitely sounds like we have the same mindset on gatekeeping in music and people getting so unreasonably angry at something just because it's either 1.) Not to your personal liking or 2.) Popular. On a related note, I'm also an Oasis fan and I likewise was taken aback by all the haters, calling them a "boy band" and such. They're a British Invasion style rock band who always promoted an authentic rock n roll ethos: why such hate?? But still it doesn't bother me because opinions on art should never bother anyone. Cheers.

[@yobkiss]

Look at the smiles in the thumbnail. They knew they struck gold 😂 Like @ourheartscondemnyou I was 15 when it came out and it was one of the first concerts I went alone to with a friend from school, buying my own ticket with a friend from the ticket office was an experience on it's own, and yea. I didn't like it as much as when I first heard Master Of Puppets, but I was cool with it at the time. Some of the best metal came out in the early 90's and Metallica totally disappeared from my radar by 1992 as it got snowed under by amazing albums like: A Blaze In the Northern Sky, Angel Dust, Psalm 69: The Way to Succeed and the Way to Suck Eggs, Dirt, The End Complete, and yes! Vulgar Display Of power! What a year 1992 was...

[@EdwinCannistraci]

Thanks for weighing-in, Paul. The early 90s was a great time for metal and rock music in general IMO and Metallica is an important gateway band for many fans.

[@exceptformeandmymonkey6964]

I hate it

[@johnp82]

The nost unfairly hated album in the history of music. 90% of the people who hate it are biased people born pre-1975 who resented the fact Metallica was no longer a band they could fit in their back pocket and that their kid sister suddenly liked them. Yes, it was different and it wasnt their most ambitious album songwriting wise, but it was still Metallica. They were never a pure thrash band to begin with. You can't hate the Black Album but like songs like Fade To Black and For Whom The Bell Tolls. The production I will concede was over the top and was more akin to Motley Crue than Metallica, but considering it's 12 great songs that sonically sound amazing, that should be a small obstacle to get over.

[@EdwinCannistraci]

@@johnp82 I agree with everything you wrote. Thanks for commenting. 🖤

[@jhellert1]

Most of it is boring. Sad But True is a yawn fest.

[@EdwinCannistraci]

@@jhellert1 Can’t win ‘em all. 😉

[@scottwalker4768]

Its not a bad album but it was a big step down from their first 4 albums

[@exceptformeandmymonkey6964]

I hated it I also hated and justice for all the production was awful.

[@johnp82]

🤦

[@mattmiller4821]

Yes.

[@SniffHeinkel]

Metallica elitists criticize The Black Album because Metallica tried something new rather than simply releasing another Thrash Metal album. They claim Metallica "sold out" because it's their highest selling album, yet they clearly don't comprehend what selling out actually entails.

[@EdwinCannistraci]

Yep. By these gatekeepers' definition, pretty much any band that records a popular album on a major label "sold out."

[@ImYourOverlord]

For them, the majority of the material is musically lazy.

[@johnp82]

They _could_ have sold out, but that would mean their record label wanted then to make a commercial album and they did so begrudgingly because they wanted to make another thrash album. But it's eaually if not more likely they genuinely wanted to write simpler songs and wanted it to sound as good as possible.

[@ImYourOverlord]

@@johnp82 Lars did pitch the style change by saying he wanted to do more of the "bouncy thing." For all my arguably excessively harsh criticism, at least the Black Album still has some heaviness to it. Not a complete steamy pile, just a partial steamy pile.

[@CVGuitar]

Great video Eddy!

[@EdwinCannistraci]

@@CVGuitar Thanks as always! 🤘🏼

[@ImYourOverlord]

The production is vastly superior to the content. It's Metallica Lite. The beginning of their downhill slide that never turned around.

[@S_CampbellFOC]

an entire generation like me found metal and through metal thrash, crossover, punk, hardcore and hip hop from the black album. I have created 2 teenage fans with the album in my kids. it's like the gateway. not a bad album... hot take, load and reload arent bad either, other than a few stinkers.

[@EdwinCannistraci]

@@S_CampbellFOC TBA is a total gateway album and I like a couple songs on the Load albums (“2 X 4”, “The Memory Remains” and “Devil’s Dance” being my favorites). Thanks for commenting. 🤘🏼

[@S_CampbellFOC]

@@EdwinCannistraci no problem. I randomly found the video, and just like back then I argue about Metallica "selling out" to this day. as bad as load and reload were, st. anger to me was the sellout, trying to stay with the trend of the moment and also lazily do some thrash. death magnetic was ok, hardwired was better, 72 seasons sounds way too slick but I dig it.

[@EdwinCannistraci]

@@S_CampbellFOC I reviewed 72 Seasons when it came out and totally overpraised it, but I do still like it: a little overlong, but it’s my 6th favorite and Hardwired is a close 7th (also good but also overlong… by almost an entire disc!). Thanks again for watching and for commenting. 🤘🏼

[@S_CampbellFOC]

@@EdwinCannistraci no doubt

[@MetalPersonJ]

Bad? No. Sell out Motley Crue hypocrisy? Yes. But hey, I love the classic Crüe so it's all good.

[@EdwinCannistraci]

Totally. Selling out doesn't always equal "bad."

[@ImYourOverlord]

One does not simply say LOL verbally. It's meant to be written, not pronounced.

[@EdwinCannistraci]

Is that the grammatical rule? I was not aware. lol

[@ImYourOverlord]

@@EdwinCannistraci It's part of Netspeak, and has traditionally been understood that it's not meant to be verbalized. But there's no penalty for doing so, other than to draw the occasional side-eye or something :D

[@EdwinCannistraci]

@@ImYourOverlord lol 😉

[@ImYourOverlord]

@@EdwinCannistraci Happy to give you a good chuckle :D Well played ;)

[@almosthuman56]

Bottom Line: It is beyond trendy bashing on Metallica. And its always funny how many think they are done. They been done to these people BEFORE they were a stadium headliner. Reality is not their thing. And I am no later Metallica fan. I just refuse to bash them because its so fucking trendy.

[@EdwinCannistraci]

Lars is not done buying Picassos for sure! 😅Thanks as always for weighing-in, Ralph.

[@almosthuman56]

@@EdwinCannistraci and you are dead on about Cliff burton. I've been screaming that for years. If it was Lars that died in the bus and Metallica went through those changes there would have been a shirt of Lars and cliff. And it would have said "it should have been Cliff". Cliff was the only vocal person in Metallica bashing on people that say they should play nothing but a thousand miles an hour. He was a more annoyed with those people than the other three. So you know he would have been hated later on.And Cliff was also a huge fan of REM.

[@EdwinCannistraci]

@@almosthuman56 Totally. We know this about Cliff because we actually read up and learn about the artists we're interested in. Something these haters don't ever bother to do.

[@michaeltyler5388]

Thanks so much for the shout-out, brother! Like the dude you are debating with, I'm in the minority when it comes to this album, and I'm not going to lie and say I didn't feel betrayed upon hearing "Enter Sandman" for the first time. 20 going on 21 Mike was absolutely horrified, but I have definitely mellowed with my feelings about the Black Album and moved on. There were other bands that filled that void Metallica vacated for me. I never understood the whole "It should have been Lars" for one major reason: It was Kirk who drew cards to see who would get the top bunk bed, not Lars. They just use what happened to Cliff to hate on Lars. As anyone knows, I'm not a huge fan of this record, there are some good tracks on it, but this is the beginning of the Bob Rock era of the band and it was pretty much down hill for me after this because Load and Reload didn't really grab me at all and don't get me started on St. Anger! LOL That being said, I will always love Metallica because nothing will ever taint the first four albums for me! Especially the Cliff Burton era! I will also acknowledge the impact this record made. This is were I'm going to be very objective: What Metallica did with this album and the albums afterward is really no different than a lot of bands/artist did before them as well as their contemporaries! They did what they did and not only managed to survive but thrive! It didn't matter what kind of material they put out. Every album sold like hot cakes! The only album where I remember any real backlash was St. Anger, and even that was a multi-platinum selling album! Not many other acts can say that. KISS, Alice Cooper, among others, alienated their fan bases by changing their sound and following trends and their popularity waned. Not the case with Metallica. also like to add that I like the post Bob Rock era a lot better. If you are going to have a discussion about this subject on your Podcast, I would love to be a part of it!

[@MetalPersonJ]

wrong. it's beyond trendy to defend metallica from the bashers. They deserve so much more.

[@foolkiller65z56]

No

[@ImYourOverlord]

"Nothing Else Matters" is not a love song.

[@EdwinCannistraci]

James has said it was about his girlfriend at the time and missing her while he was on tour, so yeah: it's a love song.

[@ImYourOverlord]

@@EdwinCannistraci It may have begun that way, but he himself later said that it became more about being on the road, and the way he felt about being in the band. OK, so maybe that's another form of love, but the song is absolutely not a romantic song as it stands.

[@EdwinCannistraci]

@@ImYourOverlord I hear ya. I do think there’s a dark romanticism or, at very least, a wistfulness to it. But I also think love songs can be about the “absence of love” or love loss. For example, I consider Black Sabbath’s “Changes” a love song but a wistful and authentic one. And I think Metallica were looking at how Sabbath or Zeppelin would execute a love song vs the fluffier power ballads from all those glam metal acts. That’s my take on it anyway.

[@ImYourOverlord]

@@EdwinCannistraci It could be taken in more than one way, to be relatable to a wider audience. I can live with that.

[@ScarysReviews]

it's a great classic album. it's fair to accept their bad albums are St Anger, Hardwired, load and re-load ( they have good-great songs though)

[@EdwinCannistraci]

Hardwired is half great. Half not so great.

[@Gregbaltzer]

Hardwired is just to bloated. When you think that RTL and MOP have only 8 songs each and the deluxe version of Hardwired is 13 songs, not including covers, you could easily get rid of the 5 weakest songs and you'd have a really good album

[@EdwinCannistraci]

@@Gregbaltzer Agree. If Hardwired was simply the first disc with "Spit out the Bone" at the end, it'd be better than the Black Album IMO. But unfortunately that's not how they released it.

[@johnp82]

As albums, Load and Reload are better quality than anything theyve done since.

[@Gregbaltzer]

@@johnp82 I don't agree with that at all. I would say Reload is their second worst album followed by Load. Even James feels it's the era he likes the least

[@ImYourOverlord]

The heavy and dark aspects of the music are legit, but overall, the music is lacking, compared to what all they did before.

[@EdwinCannistraci]

I agree: compared to what they before. But still better than what they did after IMO.

[@JasonCone]

I think it's a good album, but not what I want from a Metallica album.

[@jeffspicoli763]

Great video man! I dig The Black Album, including the singles. But also I rarely listen to it, cause Metallica sorta annoys me.....other than Ride The Lightning. That one RULES!

[@EdwinCannistraci]

Thank you, brother and Ride the Lightning is my favorite Metallica album (and thrash album period). It totally RULES!!!

[@ImYourOverlord]

How many copies sold and how much the b(r)and made from iy is irrelevant.

[@EdwinCannistraci]

For the reasons I stated, I think it is relevant when we're talking about a multi-generational album that's still connecting with people in 2024.

[@ImYourOverlord]

Cliff would have encouraged the band to stretch out, yes, but in musically interesting ways. Not like The Black Album. He would never have been on board with that overall style.

[@EdwinCannistraci]

I agree they would've branched out genre and tempo wise, but also retain their progressive side with Cliff. He might've been cool with the occasional short and simple single, but in the way Blue Oyster Cult would have a a couple radio-friendly songs on otherwise left-of-center albums.

[@deletedhero5579]

Why? Cliff said they'd eventually mellow out and work with a big name producer. He grunted when asked if he still enjoyed kill em all

[@EdwinCannistraci]

@@deletedhero5579 Yeah, and Cliff loved BOC, Thin Lizzy and Skynyrd: all of whom had slick productions and radio-friendly hits. I'm sure he'd have no problem with Metallica following suit.

[@johnp82]

Lars and James ran the show anyway.

[@ImYourOverlord]

@@johnp82 Which really sucked, as their views were overly narrow.

[@BedrockBreakers64]

Listen, you can't compare TBA to anything else. To be fair you need to take as much bias out and objectively look at this album for what it delivers. 1. Practically invented a new genre of metal again 2. Produced very slick to make up for AJFA production 3. The fact Metallica had the balls and talent to take this risk and direction with no guarantee of success is just 1000% respectable. 4. It instantly opened the floodgates even more for new people to get into metal, breathing new life into it and building it up bigger. 5. It is growth, emotional maturity, song writing maturity, Metallica doing what they want, not what the record label asked them to do. 6. It produced one of the biggest rock/metal songs of all-time in Enter Sandman 7. It produced two of arguably best metal ballads of all-time. For those not scared of feelings. 8. It offers some of the very best and memorable solos as a whole package. 9. It is a stripped down mix that clearly sounds like AJFA built in that more people could digest. 10. It is just supremely innovative for that time and there has not been any band who could replicate a similar effort. 11. The album is rich in substance, meaning, more relatable to the average person. 12.It is tight and catchy from the first note to the last. No argument required, this is fact. Now subjectively here is how I see the argument on the flip side. 1. They sold out - No they did what they wanted and took a huge risk with no guarantee of success. 2. Sour grapes over no thrash - There is stripped down thrash here but that is a preference not a flaw. 3. They stopped being Metallica - No, the were being themselves and they just didn't go in the direction you preferred. 4. The production is too slick - Again that is a personal preference, not a flaw in the album. 5. Too poppy - Your preference again... It actually has a good balance of everything as alternative metal. It just does not meet your personal quota for being heavy, fast, more distortion etc... That is a you preference again. 6. I hate it because I am true to the first 4 albums. That is a you deal. Your hate does not make the album bad. Just bad for you not millions of others. 7. I hate it because they betrayed the fans of the first 4 albums - No you feel the betrayal because you did not have the flexibility or ability to grow with the band going into a different direction as a fan. You got stuck in the 80's. 7. I hate it because it is popular - That is your problem... It doesn't make you cool to be a hater of an album that a lot more people love or at least like. It just doesn't. 8. It's less technical - That is ok, it works being less technical, however it is highly nuanced and technical from that perspective. 9. I don't like it because I am jealous and envious of their success - You won't admit it but there is a bunch of that hate fueled by this. 10. It forces me to face my feelings with those ballads - That is a personal taste and emotional maturity thing you have to figure out on your own. It's OK to enjoy ballads and not feel like less of a man somehow. 11. My expectations are very rigid and if they don't write the music I like, the way ai like it and when, I will be angry and disappointed - Well that is all on you for setting yourself up with limited flexibility. I'm sure there is more when you get into the nitty gritties with the difference views of vocals, lyrics, tone choices and more... But if you let those things stand in the way of enjoying the music, that is your loss, it burdens you with more detailed preferences when you know nothing is perfect. Comes down to subjective preferences, however the base fact is, it is a great album for that time and that style that has gone unmatched.

[@EdwinCannistraci]

Well-written and insightful and I pretty much agree with every one of your points. Cheers. 👍🏼

[@stemmleaflets2793]

it's a bad album, and everything after that has been even worse.

[@ImYourOverlord]

At least they gave us four outstanding albums. I'll take that. Just wish they had continued to be a Thrash Metal band.

[@TroySaccary]

If only Cliff hadn't been sacrificed for their fame and fortune. They abused Newsted and fucked Napster despite their original popularity from underground bootleg tape trading in the 80's. They did spawn a through and through metal band in Megadeth, who remained Thrash and gave us classic discography of bangers.

[@deletedhero5579]

​@@TroySaccaryDude get a grip

[@TroySaccary]

@deletedhero5579 I have a grip, seems you maybe nescinent or just willfully ignorant of the so-called stories and urban legends about the crossroads or the deal with the Devil for their souls some have alleged to have embarked on for sex, drugs, rock 'n' roll, fame, and fortune. Early Metallica shows through word of mouth and underground tape trading by way of metal fanzines absolutely benefited MegaDave era Metallica No Life 'Till Leather demo. Lars is a douche for getting embittered with Napster. You obviously never viewed Metallica Some Kinda Monster rockumentry about Metallica going to therapy and the shit attitude James took with Newsted for wanting to do Echobrain, side project. Kill 'Em All was majority composed by Mustaine, undeniable Burton influence on Ride The Lightning and Master Of Puppets remained thrash, then along comes ...And Justice For All and they punk Jason by turning bass down in mixing production to almost unheard levels, instead of showcasing the new guys chops and then the horror stories of how they hazed him unceasingly. Someone doesn't know Metallica history and it really fucking shows. Just wondering how many time did you see 'em perform before ...And Justice tour. I was fortunate enough to grow up bordercity to Detroit, Michigan, and went every time they came through, saw ...And Justice at Cobo and Black album tour at Pontiac Silverdome with Faith No More and Guns and Roses. It was a shit show because of Axel's antics of premaddona hours late hitting the stage. I knew then Metallica was no longer the favorite band of my teen years and they sold out to become America's biggest Rock band leaving their Thrash roots behind. Prove me wrong or STFU, simple as.

[@johnp82]

It's a great album, calm down.

[@ImYourOverlord]

It is one of the biggest disappointments in the history of music.

[@johnp82]

Impossible...not with an albun that objectively good.

[@ImYourOverlord]

@@johnp82 But it's not objectively good. The production far outshines the content.

[@johnp82]

@@ImYourOverlord It absolutely is. 12 well-written heavy metal songs with interesting chord progressions, harmonies and melodies as well as thoughtful lyrics, in combination with superb production. Of course, if in 1991 you're into thrash just for the fad of it and you resent that Winger fans suddenly liked Metallica, you'll be disappointed.

[@ImYourOverlord]

@@johnp82 Never cared for fads or trends.