Stardust Crusaders VS La Squadra REDUX | Who Would Win?

[@KhanhNguyen-mh5ec]

You’re missing one thing. Star Platinum has camera lens eyes. Formagio ain’t going anywhere.

[@daltonbecker4494]

You're right one well flicked pebble from Star Platinum and goodbye Formagio.

[@GrapoTheRatKing]

iggy can also smell stand users too

[@JojoLisa-gl2el]

@@GrapoTheRatKingwhat?

[@faresfares-ultra]

@@JojoLisa-gl2el Iggy is dog he can track people like he did against N'doul

[@JayKaze]

@@JojoLisa-gl2el JojoLisa, your name doesn't check out.

[@daltonbecker4494]

One thing I think the Crusaders have a weird edge in. They are stronger, as in *they* themselves are stronger. Think about it when Jotaro was aged down by Alessi he was able to beat the snot out of him unarmed, no stand, and at age seven. Joseph manages to get through all of part two without a stand at all. And Polnareff himself is an accomplished swordsman even without his stand. So, I would say at least Illuso is dead in the water because he would trap one of them in the mirror world, upon which they would realize "Hey I still have fists I could just beat the shit out of this jackass."

[@gustavosauro1882]

When is Pol shown to be strong by himself?

[@Eterco]

@@gustavosauro1882 End of the Vanilla Ice Fight. That's a mental strong, less a physical strong though.

[@daltonbecker4494]

@@gustavosauro1882 Remember when he was Fighting Chaka and he noted that his stance was totally amateurish? He would probably have to know how to do a proper one to know when you're doing it wrong.

[@radioactiveplaythroughs7068]

illuso still has a stand in the mirror world which the crusaders can’t touch, even if they’re stronger he basically has an intangible invisible wall in between them, they can’t lay hands on him

[@daltonbecker4494]

@@radioactiveplaythroughs7068 Man in the mirror is super weak though, it got trashed by Moody Blues of all stands.

[@okuyasunijimura8847]

Magician red watching an angry italian trying to cover himself in ice: 😃

[@Rob_Lucci_]

I get that this is a joke, but I didn't think that Magicians Red is going to be able to create fire for enough to melt White Albums Ice.

[@nexuscake1762]

@@Rob_Lucci_just set him on fire ez pz

[@aquamerman]

​​@@Rob_Lucci_you will change your pov if you watch Avodol vs justice from the OVA. Bro literally created dante's inferno.

[@Rob_Lucci_]

@@aquamerman that's cool and all. But was it still a red fire? If so then I don't know how well it can melt absolute zero temperature ice.

[@TheQuestion2.0]

Magician Red when he sees everyone else getting old really quick: 💀

[@angrypvz1236]

There are a lot of cool interactions with this fight. Like how White Album could create a cloud of cold air to prevent La Squadra from aging by Grateful Dead, and how Risotto could pull weapons out of The Fool. I think the synergy of the crusaders, along with their longer range gives them the win more often than not. And if any of the crusaders die, Star Platinum would start blitzing and not wasting any time

[@requiem522]

Star Platinum proceeds to 1 shot everyone in TS

[@angrypvz1236]

@@requiem522 literally. Like once Jotaro feels like it’s time to end things, La Squadra getting donutted for real

[@requiem522]

@@angrypvz1236 makes me think if La Squadra could beat DIO, or if the Crusaders could beat Diavolo

[@angrypvz1236]

@@requiem522 oooooh yeah that’s a cool idea. I feel like the crusaders could def beat Diavolo. He never wanted to fight the part 5 group head on and once the part 3 gang figure out how his power works, Jotaro or Polnareff could definitely land a killing blow. Now with La Squadra vs. Dio, that’s definitely a more of an uphill battle. They’d need to coordinate to actually beat Dio, and if one of them can get off one of their haxs on Dio then they’d probably have a solid win, but I think the most likely scenario is that he spams The World and picks of the squad one by one in time stop. He’s only really cocky towards people who’s power can rival his and unfortunately I don’t think any of La Squadra’s powers rival The World

[@GrapoTheRatKing]

@@requiem522 jotaro can solo diavolo, while la squadra cannot. dio is also a vampire and none of the stands can destroy dio like star plat can, and also dio time stop is better than jotaros, only reason why jotaro won was because of speed and power and not stopping time first, dio had to keep his range against jotaro because he risked death or a big injury

[@wakestara]

Gratefull death + white album it's a crazy good combination they could use to destroy anyone

[@cyrus8886]

You'd also be cooling your enemies since it drops temperature of the air

[@wakestara]

@@cyrus8886 yeah but White album ice it's pretty fast and cut Mista finger or Giorno arm on touch without problem so it's die bye age or freeze to death The more they run from white album that can catch up a car the more they age

[@makotonaegi4419]

​@@wakestara still be aging yr allies to death lol

[@chaotic6753]

​@@makotonaegi4419 white album could give them all ice cubes

[@makotonaegi4419]

@@chaotic6753 small ice cubes aren't going to stop aging lol

[@nixtypikal]

I just imagine Illuso bringing Joseph into the mirror world going like, Illsuo: Hah, I have isolated you from your stand! Joseph: The next thing you're gonna say is, "What are you gonna do now old man?" Illuso: What are you gonna do now old ma- What?! How did you- Joseph punches Man in the Mirror with hamon. Illuso: What was that?! I took your stand away from you, how did you hit Man in the Mirror?! Joseph: This isn't a stand young man. It's something just as capable of taking you on.

[@kevintanza6968]

Joseph needed a moment like that in Stardust Crusaders.

[@AcEdits0]

joseph and jotaro is a perfect counter to mitm, they can just punch illuso to death and joseph got hamon thats pretty op, joseph needs more moments like that in the anime

[@charlieflight6124]

And he somehow pulls his clackers out.

[@hariman7727]

Joseph: *Finds a oloc aloc vending machine in the mirror world, and buys a few bottles.* About 5 minutes later, Illuso was beaten.

[@beywheelzhater8930]

@@AcEdits0 Considering Iggy’s stand is made of physical sand and physical objects exist both in and out of the mirror world in sync I don’t even think the dog could be made standless

[@magenta2787]

I'm curious about another interaction between The Fool vs Man in the Mirror. Technically, wouldn't the sand Iggy controls appear in the mirror world, as the sand would just form up in the shape of the Fool? And Fugo was able to attack with Purple Haze while in the mirror world, albeit he didn't know where his stand was. So, if Iggy could see the mirror sand being moved around by the Fool, he'd be able to figure out how he needs to move it to attack Illuso and either kill him or force him to leave the mirror

[@hariman7727]

Yep. Iggy crushes Man in the Mirror and Beach Boy. ALL of the Crusaders win against about half of La Squadra in a close up match/with their fists. Jotaro just stomps if he uses/has Time Stop. La Squadra can do damage, but can't win.

[@ProjektTaku]

@@hariman7727 not if Illuso puts La Squadra in the Mirror World with their stands. Also Jotaro can't do anything to Beach Boy if Pesci's in the Mirror World.

[@digunder14]

plus with Jotaro, one difference between how he and dio use time stop is that rather than spamming it, Jotaro is noted to be more tactical and strategic with that ability since he can't spam it and use it as a crutch like dio did

[@hariman7727]

Bye Bye Risotto.

[@colonfist]

If he knows about Risotto and his ability, he has a chance and will do everything to kill him right away within stopped time Lets not forget that Risotto and Metallica could literally just materialize and insert metals inside your brain/heart, which you have no way of defending yourself from if you're way too late

[@BUR404]

I wonder what would happen if La Squadra actually made their way to Diavolo? Would they even stand a chance?

[@error-4269]

I don't think so chef

[@Pandamex187]

I think Man in the Mirror, White Album, and Grateful Dead would be the biggest threats. As strong as King Crimson is, how would he even get close to White album without freezing or to Grateful Dead without aging rapidly. Now he would probably be prepared for Grateful Dead but then again Man in the Mirror stops him from using King Crimson and probably epitaph too. But honestly I could totally be wrong on this so who knows.

[@deven4774]

​@@error-4269 I mean Metallica almost did by himself

[@error-4269]

@@deven4774 that was doppio not diavolo

[@randomperson7350]

La squadra as a whole would solidly beat diavolo

[@globbo2225]

The secret op stand here is actually man in the mirror in my opinion. People always forget that since MitM can take stands to the mirror world, he can take his teammates into the mirror world… and with their stands. The power difference between say jotaro and illuso is massive, but if the crusaders don’t have their stands, white album or Grateful Dead could just wipe the crusaders. The real question in my opinion is would illuso even think to use this strategy. We only see him in that one fight so I’m not sure, but it is the most free win condition on la squadra’s side. Edit: Since iggys stand is a construct, he would still be able to use his stand in the mirror world. This means that the crusaders would still be able to fight back even if la squadra uses this strategy.

[@pablojams5152]

He’d also have to get lucky with the gimmick of catching all of them at once with a mirror, and potentially once he realized what was going on, Jotaro could stop time before getting fully trapped.

[@sifsuxIDV]

Illuso could also just take one of the crusaders into the mirror world and just leave, making the fight 5v6. He could just take them into the mirror world one by one until its like 3v6 then take la squadra into the mirror world against the rest of the crusaders, now left without stands, and just wipe them.

[@radioactiveplaythroughs7068]

i think the team together could cook it up. you’re right that Man in the mirror is secretly OP i’m glad people are starting to realise, he almost 3v1ed his fight and only lost because of the conditions around the fight (the key being more important than killing the members of the team)

[@AcEdits0]

jotaro can just time stop and kill he like dio did with kakyoin when the stand of one of the crusaders just dont appear anymore or when any1 of la squadra vanishes and whent he aging starts, he just time stop and donut greatfull death and white album, so theres no wya of the crusaders being standless with jotaro time stop ability and polnareff armor off speed

[@sifsuxIDV]

@@AcEdits0 I can barely understand what you mean but also how does that make sense when the mirror world exists outwith the general world? Jotaro can time stop all he want he can't hurt Illuso if he's in the mirror world and Jotaro isn't, and if Jotaro goes to the mirror world he doesn't have time stop anymore

[@deltalord6969]

If a crusader does fall i would probably imagine jotaro getting a serious rage amp which definitely wouldnt end well for la squadra i mean dio found that out the hard way.

[@chaotic6753]

The business end of risotto means that even of jotoro is rage camped he'd still get taken out by a pair of scissors formed in his brain.

[@theworstchannelyouhaveever9573]

But what if its Jotaro who is took out?

[@ghitaianis9022]

@@chaotic6753 but then again risotto can't really use his ability if he is stopped in time, also in part 4 jotaro could only stop time for 2 seconds and said that at the very least with time stop, Star platinum's effective range is 5 meters, now if we add his more then double part 3 time stop which is 5 seconds this should give to SP and effective range of 10 meters which is also metalica's limit.

[@ghitaianis9022]

@@Leechlordfestus true

[@chaotic6753]

@@ghitaianis9022 good argument however Jotaro would also have to find an invisible risotto

[@aliastheabnormal]

Too bad that Joseph never uses Hermit Purple with Hamon. Since its arguably the most powerful Hamon technique ever. As it solves Hamon's problem with range and would slaughter any vampire or pillar men not named Ultimate Kars.

[@KhanhNguyen-mh5ec]

He did. Except that doesn’t protect him from the knife

[@Ghost-in8bs]

@@KhanhNguyen-mh5ecit should seeing as he could use hamon hair strands to block automatic fire

[@KhanhNguyen-mh5ec]

@@Ghost-in8bs Hypothesis: knife has a smaller surface area compare to automatic gun bullet which means all the force is concentrated on that small area allowing the knife to cut hermit purple

[@wuskraken6187]

@@KhanhNguyen-mh5ec bullets wont effect stands only stands can damage stands

[@KhanhNguyen-mh5ec]

@@wuskraken6187 Counter point, The knife hits Joseph where Hermit purple didn’t protect.

[@jcp1296]

I think it's crazy that you're counting the aging stand out because it would affect his team because like, he's the only one we actually see working with a teammate and he does not get affected just by chewing some ice. And they have a guy on they team that controls temperature...

[@angelerror4086]

and avdol's fire can melt ceramic

[@SnipingIsAGoodJobMate]

Risotto: I won't get any closer to you Kakyoin: aight bet **20 meter emerald splash** Risotto: what the fu-

[@cameron9484]

I don't care how strong La Squadra is, if Jotaro's theme starts playing it's over for all of them

[@enenra6417]

Pucci:

[@cameron9484]

​@@enenra6417Even Emporio got powered up by Jotaro's theme

[@thebiggafortheninja]

@@cameron9484 bro almost win the part until jotaro's theme kicks in💀

[@Unknown-hb3id]

@@cameron9484 Made in Heaven vs Coughing Baby (with Jotaro theme)

[@princedavid5075]

@@Unknown-hb3idbaby negs ngl

[@SomeCameo]

i kinda like how this all boils down to: these guys got hax, but THESE guys got hands.

[@hariman7727]

Hands with classic hax. And those hands win.

[@cyrus8886]

Pesci vs Iggy would be gold

[@error-4269]

We'll meet again and don't know where don't know don't know when-

[@Vivid1K]

How come

[@Younghoulhead]

Iggy stomps you can't fish in sand

[@Vivid1K]

@@Younghoulhead He literally fishes through a damn train

[@SakuraNoHanaTopaz]

​@@Vivid1K so blud technically fished through metal😂

[@CyFiWasTaken]

Something that wasn't brought up that I think should have been, when Avdol was fighting Polnareff at Tiger Balm Garden, Avdol's flames melted the statue of MR fairly quickly, and knowing that the eagle statue that it was cut from was made of ceramic, that means that Avdol's flames are AT LEAST 2000 Celsius Also, I checked the sand thing, and yellow sand in Southern Europe and North Africa has a decent amount of iron in it, so Risotto would still be able to do his full deal, but he likely wouldn't be able to do so with white sand, which is almost entirely silica, or some types of black sand, which is mostly eroded basalt. There is also black sand in the form of iron sand, which would obviously work perfectly Also I'd say that the Crusaders would have a decent edge in a head to head battle, since all of them besides Joseph have fairly easily understood and powerful Stands that work well in straight up fights, but La Squadra would have the edge if they scattered and hid instantly, since some of them take time to work fully, and some of them don't have great melee defense options (Besides Ghiacco, but, as stated, the relatively weak GE was able to crack his armor, so the main problem would be avoiding frostbite on knuckles lol)

[@matthewkukowski4638]

Yeah, Avdol's flames are hot as shit if you really look closely at his feats. He instantly vaporizes a length of steel railroad track, which melts at 1500 Celsius, but he fkn instantly melts it, meaning his flames have to be quite a lot hotter than 1500. Also, totally agree that the Crusaders would probably thrash most of La Squadra in a brawl, but La Squadra' hax is much, MUCH better outside of time stop

[@purplehaze2358]

Technically speaking, Risotto could theoretically just form razor blades inside all of the Crusaders' brains simultaneously before they even know he's there.

[@josephrogers3666]

Should be a solo but one thing says otherwise bs jojo durability

[@stinkymonke3622]

@@josephrogers3666 nope, brain damage one shots obviously

[@stinkymonke3622]

Also iirc Risotto can not attack several targets simultaneously, it only attacks the nearest target, thats how doppio located him by using the frog as bait

[@real9346]

​@@stinkymonke3622 sale would disagree

[@stinkymonke3622]

@@real9346 sale is the prime fucking example dude, he didnt die BECAUSE THE BULLET DIDNT REACH HIS BRAIN

[@herpyderp4556]

The thing about Pesci is that the thing that made his stand terrifying was where he was and how the many walls would protect him and keep his location secret but once Bruno got outside for their standoff he dispatched of Pesci fairly easily considering all that had happened before hand so in the open space of the coliseum Pesci definitely would not have quite as much if an advantage as he did while in the narrow spaces of the train

[@yabarber6902]

Remember when Doppio was Risottos target but ended pulling out iron from the frog closer to him before Doppio? I definitely don’t think the ability is selective for Risotto so if he doesn’t want to team kill as well then he ain’t gonna do much I don’t think

[@ProjektTaku]

It most definitely is selective, he was likely just torturing Doppio and not trying to kill him instantly.

[@yabarber6902]

When was it shown to be selective? I know he can basically choose the range, but not who is affected in that range. At least I don't think it was ever shown@@ProjektTaku

[@Ralathym]

I'm not so sure about White Album. GE only defeated him because of the weak point, and it is unclear who would win between him and Magicians Red. Still, I agree with the conclusion

[@skittleboi1193]

I am leaning towards Avdol just because he has more range with his fire and it's said to be able to burn steel bars from Jotaro's jail cell so I think if it spams crossfire hurricane's from a distance White album will struggle

[@skittleboi1193]

I am leaning towards Avdol just because he has more range with his fire and it's said to be able to burn steel bars from Jotaro's jail cell so I think if it spams crossfire hurricane's from a distance White album will struggle

[@AcEdits0]

avdol can just make a giant hurricane of flames arround white album and basically burning he alive also he can spam crossfire hurricane in a stupid distance that white album cant get close

[@beywheelzhater8930]

Thing is Magician’s Red only needs to weaken the ice enough to punch through it Silver Chariot can also just speed blitz behind White Album and just stab through the hole. The stand does compose 99% of the light speed arguments in the fandom for a reason

[@oddistchild5252]

I would like to give 3 things to this (all for La Squadra) (kind of biased) 1) the grateful dead is not out of the fight (ignoring melee). although white album is more of a "mist" kind of ice guy, it's not out of the question that he can make some ice for people to munch on or just keep them cool while keeping his team cool, on that fact, avdol would be screwing his team with his heat based attacks (also more bias, gently weeps out powers avdol's flames that could not steam off some toilet water) 2) The guy with little feet (I'm bad with names) was not trying to kill (for the first half at least) nrancha (Aerosmith's user) so using that as a base for how he would attack (even in this video you can see him do his tiny car in a cup of water technique). this point is kind of just betting that he would not try a torture method instead of chucking a tiny pillar (star platinum would probably swat a tiny pillar anyway but you probably get the point) 3) I forgot the third thing so ima just bring up the fact that Beach Boy can go through walls and detect heartbeats (a point for the Crusaders is that if he goes for Jotaro first he might be able to pull it out because "Precision") 3) I REMEMBER NOW man in the mirror could probably protect members instead of attacking (kind of, maybe, synergies be wild) that was my ted talk have a nice day

[@SenkingFar]

Most of this seems fine but avdol melts through steel, which seems much hotter than what white album can counter. Also, pretty sure he melts a statue at some point. Maybe during the pol fight

[@vitaleriof]

imagine kakyoin meeting illuso: kakyoin: so there is a world in the mirror. polnareff: fucking finally!

[@Chespin2004]

i dunno if hamon could come in contact with stands, but joseph is prob still smart enough to trick illuso into getting damaged badly in the mirror world

[@beywheelzhater8930]

Considering Joseph’s physical strength and combat experience, I could imagine him just weaving around MITM to beat the shit out of Illuso A hamon loaded punch with a metal hand can and will lay him out

[@definitelynotamantis4346]

Me personally, I agree that there are so many factors that it's impossible to be sure on any outcome. Though I do believe the Crusaders are winning more times than losing just due to the sheer power their stands and users have in comparison to basically every other group in the series. One other thing is I think Avdol is heavily underrated in this fight, he counters so many people it's crazy how busted he is. Ghiaccio is the obvious first one but if you want a funny scenario in Eyes of Heaven Avdol's and Polnareff's big attack together has Avdol superheating Polnareff's sword which would absolutely cut Ghiaccio to pieces. but then you have Prosciutto and as mentioned his aging is based on body temperature; if Avdol were to just heat up the area around La Squadra their aging would be massively sped up causing Prosciutto to practically nuke his own team. Little Feet is also obvious I think Magicians Red is just stronger and with the fire could easily catch him by flaming a large area. Risotto is a bit situational, obviously if he makes objects inside Avdol thats donezo for Avdol, but if he made knives like he did against Doppio as ranged attacks, or he re-attaches someone's limb like he did in his fight with Doppio, I think Avdol could melt the metal and in the case of a limb re-attachment would leave molten iron on their skin. I do think it's very possible for La Squadra to pull some shenanigans and take out the crusaders but I feel like The Crusaders (who I consider the flat out strongest group in the series) are just so powerful because their abilities are so simple and work so well together that La Squadra just can't keep up due to lack of synergy. Also I do consider this fight with Jotaro before time stop cause Jotaro with time stop is just unfair. Also sorry for the length, I just really enjoyed thinking this out, especially since I don't see enough Avdol appreciation.

[@UniversalS757]

interesting note actually, ferromagnetic material loses its magnetic properties when heated above its curie temperature as the domains misalign, so avdol might just be able to counter metallica and make the greatful dead an issue on both sides.

[@bobdehwaffel9053]

I like to imagine that even if Prosciutto uset GD, Joseph would counter it due to hamon. Maybe he ages incredibly slowly and just charges at Prosciutto. Prosciutto does the "Impossible, why won't my stand work on you?" Then Joseph does some stupid shit like "Looks like i just get better with age!" And beats the crap out if him. In all honesty, Joseph would probably become part 4 joseph in like 5 seconds

[@beywheelzhater8930]

The big question about using GD is if they are ready for the fire chicken to now sap away their age while attacking because, seeing as MR can instantly atomize train tracks, that fire will just age them to oblivion even if it just lands next to them They hard counter the weakest crusader but in the process WA can’t attack without negating the effect and crossfire hurricane now can reduce you to ash AND dust

[@ProjektTaku]

No, he'll just become extremely frail and weak quickly then get beat.

[@Wattson19]

How would Joseph fight against Grateful Dead, when it was fast enough and strong enough to match Sticky Fingers?

[@Eterco]

I think Passione vs the Morioh Warriors is an interesting matchup because Passione definitely seems to have the more stand out team, but the Morioh Warrior stands weirdly hard counter everything Passione has, and I can explain if people want Josuke matches up well into Giorno since Crazy DIamond is physically stronger and can revert literally anything Giorno does. Jotaro and Rohan beat anybody naturally with hacks. Okuyasu can be used to take down range fighters like Narancia and Mista by bringing them in close. Echoes Act 3 can effectively down Aerosmith as well, making it effectively worthless. Several of the group, or at least Josuke and Jotaro would be able to stop bullets with a stand rush and overpower all of the physical stands Passione has. Okuyasu could also scrap away Fugo's poison. So it could play out: Josuke vs Giorno, Rohan vs Fugo, Jotaro vs Bruno, Koichi vs Narancia, Okuyasu vs Mista. This doesn't factor in Trish, Abbachio or anybody else who could help the Morioh Warriors such as Shigechi or Yukako, and Okuyasu would most likely get shot fighting Mista, but Mista could then get taken out by anybody else. Obviously no Requiem.

[@stephenwizeman9157]

Explain pls

[@l0sts0ul89]

I agree please explain

[@Eterco]

@@stephenwizeman9157 I've edited the comment

[@freetoplayking7362]

I know they have Rohan, explain the rest

[@DeliciousHam69]

You just wait until Giorno literally turns everything in the vicinity into animals and proceed to obliterate everyone

[@reflex9238]

I was waiting for a long time for this to drop, and you did not disappoint, good job.

[@UniversalS757]

This is why stands are one of the best power systems to exist. The amount of stand interactions is crazy. The Crusaders are definitely stronger physically and have a bit more versatility because they are simpler but La Squadra has the advantage in hax and insta-kill abilities. (Assuming that Jotaro doesn't have time stop because that alone probably beats everyone.) Not only does White Album save La Squadra from Grateful Dead but Magician's Red can counter by heating them back up and Magician's Red also counters White Album, it could also counter Metallica because ferromagnetic material's lose their magnetic properties when heated to their Curie Temperatures. Anyone running into Star Platinum is dead just cuz they get absolutely mashed, nobody in La Squadra can catch those hands, same is true for Silver Chariot. Man in the Mirror is interesting but if it catches Jotaro, Joseph and arguably Iggy, Illuso is done for. As a 7-year-old, Jotaro beats up an adult with bare fists, Joseph is still a Hamon master and Iggy can arguably still use his stand because it's a stand that affects physical matter rather than being its own entitiy. Kakyoin's ability to make his stand invisible to other stand users (as Dio couldn't see the 20 metre Emerald Splash for the first few shots) could probably pose issues for literally anyone or it could just trap Risotto.

[@nate51691]

Of note, for Iggy vs. Risotto - the iron concentration in sand depends wholly on where it's gathered. Your standard sample of sand is going to primarily be silicon dioxide, iirc, which wouldnt be affected by Risotto's ability. And if it was sand with large amounts of iron, it's unclear who would have primary control of it.

[@Mad-rq3ql]

Idc if it's only 3 seconds in, this is elite content ❤

[@TV_dude4037]

Fr

[@jacobnethercott2336]

I know la squadras teamwork is bad but surely they can figure out the ice guy should just ice up the other guys so they dont age

[@mystrenula3911]

But then Avdol can set fire to La Squadra to at least even that out

[@error-4269]

You can you check in with your boy Jobber? he has been triping acting up and over all wildin

[@chrisgreen5917]

the side effect of debunking GER

[@error-4269]

@@chrisgreen5917 yeah GER said you will never reach stability.

[@Scorpivan169]

That was a great video. Now we need a sequel - Gods of Egypt vs Bruno’s team

[@parry3439]

they all get turned into babies.

[@bigpurplepops]

Polnareff vs Nero is an utterly unfortunate matchup...

[@kujojotarostandoceanman2641]

The problem is I don't see anyway Jotaro could lose, only way I could see is La Squadra did their homework and decided to 5 man jump onto Jotaro from the start yet they'd at least lose 2 member from Jotaro just struggling

[@AcEdits0]

jotaro can time stop and donut entire la squadra in 5 sec lol if his 2 sec is stupidly long in part 4, imagine anger+5 sec of time stop

[@ProjektTaku]

Not if Pesci's in the Mirror World.

[@makoshark7122]

Very interesting match up. Something interesting i was thinking about, Grateful dead wouldnt be able to work with white album freezing the battlefield, but at the same time magicians red could age the crusaders so that could be risky. If theyd want to use the grateful dead effectively theyd have to let avdol use his flames, i could easily see that costing la squadra a member which could be devastating. Very interesting to think about. Avdol could also detect Risotto if he tries to use his stealth ability, if they manage to catch him and take him out right then, its probably game over for la squadra. One last thing too, star platinum does seem to act on its own in some cases. Dont know how thatd play into the fight but yeah. I can see la squadra putting up a fight but i definitely give it to the stardust crusaders ANY day

[@beywheelzhater8930]

Magician’s Red isn’t just dangerous for the crusaders, if anything they are the people who would benefit more since La Squadra are the ones having fire tossed at them GD encourages a La Squadra member not to attack the enemies since it negates the effects while it directly BUFFS a Crusader’s already deadly flames

[@Dredrude]

Hey METAs, Love your comparison videos and your thought experiments in the jojo universe. It's always enjoyable to discuss these what if's and factor our given situations with this universe that is so enjoyable to talk about. I had a thought about a topic I'd like to see discussed, but in no way asking for you to make an entire video as I'm sure your schedule is already pretty packed. At the very least, I'd love some feedback on thoughts on a concept for each main protagonist and antagonist. What would it be like to see a change in match ups for each part and to talk about how certain fights would go. Here's what I'm thinking for the fights (Some lesser versions on some of the cast so it's not a complete 1 sided stomp fest). The idea would be that the JoJo in question gets sent to the antagonist's time period to face them. Look something like this: Joseph Vs. Dio Brando Johnathan Vs Kars (Regular) Jolyne Vs Dio Giorno (No Requiem) Vs Kira Josuke Vs Diavolo Jotaro Vs Pucci (White Snake/C Moon) Not sure if this is the best place to ask this kind of question of ya, but happy to post it somewhere else if needed. Looking forward to future vids!

[@fortello7219]

I think ironically Kakyoin is a strong counter to most of them. He has long range, stealth, detection, and extreme precision on his side.

[@RheaMainz]

He even has possession..!

[@fortello7219]

@@RheaMainz yes, but I'm unsure how helpful that would be against them. That only works if he has a hostage they care about basically

[@RheaMainz]

@@fortello7219 Can't he take control of one of the Squad, disabling them?

[@fortello7219]

@@RheaMainz it would be easier to kill them?

[@Aaa-vp6ug]

@@fortello7219also, he ABSOLUTELY a refuses to use it. Edit: possession, I meant

[@andresruiz2892]

I think La Squadra relies a lot in surprise. Once you understand their habilities they're not that difficult to counter (except Metallica maybe) but the Crusaders have better brute force over all. If they managed to understand Little Feet, Greatful Dead or Man in the Mirror they'd counter them easily.

[@purplehaze2358]

I'm pretty sure the closest thing to official terminology used to refer to the secondary stands Baby Face makes is "junior", even though that's likely just a name for the one specifically seen in part 5.

[@rozovy1]

what if. Ghiaccio uses white album to make like icicle for everyone and Prosciutto just uses the grateful death?

[@corrinflakes9659]

I would want Joseph against Melone. Imagine him coming out of the homunculus fight and ripping Baby Face off his lap thinking “it’s those darn kids and their gizmos looking up unsavory content”, and attempting to hack it via Hermit Purple.

[@jerudo66]

I just watched the old video and now I see a redux, what a perfect timing

[@Jarethttorney]

This is a great video the one thing is the crusaders only knew each for 50 days Iggy even less while La squadra is an assassination team created by Diavolo they have been together for most likely years just never show as they're not the main characters and probably went on missions together like how they were together in the restaurant. if Jotaro is not killed then Timestop probably still is a hard counter to all but Risotto's invisibility as only Epitaph and using iron could find him. If Risotto can take over chariot as he did with aerosmith than pol is probably screwed. If pesci dies or prosciutto then either one probably gets a rage or resolve amp and Risotto as show leaving last from Gelato and sorbet's funeral may also get a team member death amp. White album is heavily underrated for its movements not as fast as SC and SP but still fast. Man in the mirror has another use break the mirror and any crusader that walks over it is screwed. Little feet plus Grateful dead is broken shrink the user the throw him and Grateful dead can touch a crusader and take then out most likely multiple uses of Little feet make the shrinking faster on reason it was used once was to find Trish.

[@justinweber4977]

I think a part of the fight and strategies for everyone would be that La Squadra's Stands appear to be physically weaker, but have major hax, but those hax are also very specialized. Meanwhile, the Crusaders tend to have Standa with high physical stats (barring Hermit Purple unless amped up with Hamon) but are also generalists, that have at least some viability in any scenario.

[@Slayer-88]

6:36 honestly immagining Mohammed Ali with Magician's Red is terrifying

[@hariman7727]

Muscle Mage uses Fist.

[@BorisBrigadeDoesStuff]

I just realized that The Fool is like Heavens Door, in that the user can make it whatever they want it to look like

[@crumpscrumbs]

Really like the new analysis. Wasn't a fan of the old one but I feel you and Jobber came to a much better conclusion this time around. I just want to mention that, I don't believe you guys brought up Rage Boosted Jotaro... that is all.

[@Wavedashnoir]

I literally just started watching jobber lmaoo glad to see the homies collab

[@fengshuimaster7880]

pretty sure except for iggy, if man in the mirror drags anybody in, they get fucking bodied Edit: also if La Squadra managed to kill a crusader first, jotaro 100% rage amp bodies crazily with time stop and the bs that is SP and jotaros stats, as a kid jotaro could make after images with a stand rush WITHOUT A STAND, like jotaro is actually busted. also teamwork wise, most of lasquadra are just workplace ascociates while the crusaders are genuine best friends with eachother and had a whole part dedicated to them being chads together, while i do think la squadra wins sometimes i think it is a 70/30 in crusaders favor mid-high diff depending on luck and shenanagins. thank you for the awesome vid.

[@docxy7331]

The crusaders would probably notice that avdols heat protects from metallicas magnetism since heat weakens magnetic properties

[@N_DAnimationEnthusiast]

I wonder how Joseph’s Hamon would react to Grateful Dead

[@hariman7727]

"Why is this old guy still going?" "The next thing you're going to say is "What, why haven't you aged?!" "What, why haven't you aged?! Wait, how did he know?!" "You've obviously heard of Hamon! Sunset Overdrive!" *Prosciutto is bodied, the rest of the crusaders get back up, La Squadra starts trying to survive.*

[@cinnabarmanx4214]

I mean Prosciutto and Ghiacchio’s abilities literally are counterintuitive to each other. Of Ghiacchio is making everything cold Grateful Dead can’t age anybody. And if he wants to use his ability White Album will have to pull back and not get to help the team, no wonder they usually work solo lol. Also I think it’s another point to make that The Stardust Crusaders have waaaaay more experience in Stand battles than La Squadra. La Squadra’s assasinations usually target people outside of Passione, but the only Stand Users we see are in Passione, this likely means they haven’t actually gotten into many stand battles on their missions if at all, so they could easily be caught off guard by the sheer power and teamwork of the Crusaders.

[@hariman7727]

The physical strength difference is also huge. La Squadra are tricky assassins, so a LOT of the Stardust Crusaders win once it's mano a mano versus the stand user.

[@cinnabarmanx4214]

@@hariman7727 Yeah pretty much. La Squadra relies too much on tricks, can’t stand up to the power of the Crusaders, especially ones that have been through dozens of tricky stand battles.

[@IceFlower22]

I think what really hurts la Squadra is that they can't use the grateful dead. There are two ideas that i've seen to make the grateful dead useful. One would be, as pointed by others in the comments, to have white album keep everyone in the squad at a cold enough temperature for them to be safe from the grateful dead, although magician's red could possibly beat that strategy. Moreover the crusaders also have good ranged attacks that they could use to *retire* white album's user Ghiaccio from a distance. An idea i had was to have man in the mirror bring everyone on the squad except the stand grateful dead into the mirror world and huzzah! everyone in the squad would be safe from the crusaders and the grateful dead's aging gas. That does assume though that the grateful dead's gas doesn't appear in the mirror world, which i do feel confident in since it's the stand's gas and not any normal gas. The only possible crusader counter to that strategy that i've seen is that Iggy's stand might exist in both the real and mirror world, since the stand is made of literal sand. However Iggy's stand might not be strong enough to get close to the squad, if we assume that they all stand close to each other in the mirror world with their stands ready. Even then though, Iggy *might* be able to surprise attack them if they're not being careful, which they very well might not be since they might assume that they're totally safe in the mirror world. Lol, essay time. Just really wanted to explore that scenario and see where it would lead.

[@aripea1980]

La Squadra has better team synergy, although they havent fought as a unit, and as you guys mentioned in the video, they have some VERY lethal abilities. I think their abilities complement the others a lot better than SC's. BUT. Jotaro at this point is a rampaging beast of a stand user, basically can one shot the poor bastard he initially engages, then works as support for the other matchups. Ghiacchio vs Jotaro would have been very interesting to watch.....off topic, Jotaro/Joseph vs Cioccolata/Secco would be great fun to watch too! Conclusion: A lot of blood and corpses.

[@Diruse]

I can see Secco just dipping. Hasta la proximaaa ✌️

[@foxmountain8065]

Unless they dogpile Jotaro or are willing to just go all in to kill him from the word go regardless of consequences it's gonna be extremely uphill for La Squadra. Iggy is also kinda underrated Geb, Pet Shop, and Vanilla Ice were all extremely terrifying stand users even compared to characters in part 5 and Iggy was essential for all 3 fights.

[@Solo999v2]

Each member of la squadra expect for Formaggio faced 2-3 or more members of Bruno’s team 1v2-3 or more is insane they never worked together but was able to solo and almost come out on top in almost each and every fight only losing to Bruno’s team having better team work and Giornos healing

[@rhysjonsmusic]

One thing to take into account doe is that the context of these encounters for the most part heavily favoured La Squadra. For example Proscutto and Pesci wouldve been no diff'd by Mista and Narancia if the fight had taken place in on open market street and not a cramped train blocking lines of sight

[@kristi-plays]

If you think about it, to be safe, kakyoin could just use 20 meter emerald splash to make sure they are safe, the only thing that would probably be able to counter it is white album or possibly man in the mirror, but seeing its in the collusium, a place that naturally doesn't have mirrors, its alot less likely. White album is definitely the hardest one to counter for the crusaders, besides Avdol. The only true win condition in the match up is Jotaro's time stop, so if he truly wanted to end the fight quickly, all he needs to do is get close enough to reach all the members of Le Squaddra in time stop, use it, and cave in all of their heads

[@fluffcake]

I imagine Ghaccio vs Avdol is just the Fire vs Ice episode from adventure time

[@AliceIzuragi6291]

anyone else remember when a map was made with hermit purple using sand. or was it oil? it was the episode where he was made magnetic

[@Jarethttorney]

Both but that episode was sand I think.

[@hariman7727]

Sand, and that was when Joseph had the Empress growth thing on his arm.

[@lordbloxmans4358]

i dont even need to see the whole thing, ik this vids abt to be goated

[@tyeelander7708]

One thing I think is understated is that even though La sqaudra is a mainly solo group they are still very intelligent, so I really wouldn't put it past them to use ghaccio and grateful dead together. That is a major win con I see for La squadra ghaccio keeps everyone young while grateful dead nukes the crusaders.

[@angelerror4086]

avdol

[@elijahfraser9967]

I just disagree with the impression that illuso would even stay in the mirror he doesn’t have too so he would most likely drag someone and dip making that crusader useless in the battle and honestly I see him dragging stands in the mirror world more than people and just leaving them there

[@stevenrivers173]

In this Scenario, I think you're all Overlooking our favorite Egyption Fortuneteller. His AOE attacks combined with his insane supernatural fires movements could easily flash-fire most of La Squadra. Need I remind everyone of his grand entrance against Justice in the OVA? He spawned in and instantly did a COLOSSAL Crossfire Hurricane Special. He DEFINITELY puts up an incredible fight.

[@mryeet4277]

you should do the stardust crusaders vs diavolo would be interesting

[@Nicholas86753]

Wouldnt Joseph's Hamon like... hard counter the Grateful Dead since as shown by Lisa Lisa, Hamon can counter the affects of Aging?

[@error-4269]

What is with Jobbers voce? Is he OK? Is he sick? different room or mic?

[@Jarethttorney]

Probably just tired from the debunking Ger vid.

[@GreenEggsSam]

Prosciutto could easily get Joseph out of the fight if he quickly activated Grateful Dead and deactivated it before it became a detriment to his team members. But then Jotaro is gonna give them hell 💀

[@AcEdits0]

not rlly, jotaro can time stop when aging starts and donut gratfull death and take him out like that

[@AcEdits0]

Thats true anyway

[@TheJadeFist]

Joeseph would actually be good for Risotto too. Hermit purple putting out tendrils or just his ability to sense things with all his hamon training.

[@jruler93]

One problem I could see the Crusaders running into is that La Squadra is a team of professional killers, and the strongest Crusader, Jotaro, does not go for the kill. The only people Jotaro killed were DIO (to save Holy) and Kira (who'd technically already killed the Morioh Gang). He might start going for the kill once one of the other Crusaders either dies or almost dies, and considering he caved in DIO's skull, he could probably one-shot any la Squadra member, except for maybe Ghiaccio and Risotto, if they use their Stands to protect themselves.

[@hariman7727]

He doesn't have to kill, just knock senseless.

[@jruler93]

@@hariman7727 Illuso (who's basically the weakest member of La Squadra) was fully willing to lose an arm if it meant he would beat the Gangstars and get the key, even though he had no idea what the key did or why they were after it. With resolve like that, leaving them conscious isn't an option, and when they wake up, they'll probably seek revenge.

[@aboveaveragegaming5503]

a couple things i just thought about grateful dead and white album have severe anti synergy so until white album goes down grateful dead is probably not even an option since his anger issues are definitely not going to allow him to play to play patient also wondering how hamon breathing would interact with grateful dead because it may actually slow the effects due to a single hamon breath effectively being stretched out across potentially years of age lol though avdol would be hard countered by it as well just random 12am thoughts

[@m1nkukel424]

Could illuso potentially move la squadra to the mirrorworld with the exception of the grateful dead to make the crusaders rapidly age while keeping la squadra young?

[@AcEdits0]

jotaro can ts and donut greatfull death when aging starts so he is pretty useless

[@m1nkukel424]

@The_Biggest_Skeleton Yeah, true. Jotaro is probably too fast for the entirety of La squadra tbh

[@croat0381]

I'd say a big factor would be who Jotaro chooses to kill first, because he can just stop time and one shot a La Squadra member, but since he doesn't know what their abilities are it would work like a coin toss, if he chooses someone strong like Risotto Ghiaccio and Pesci for La Squadra is essentially game over, if he chooses to kill Illuso, Prosciutto or Formaggio I'm not saying it's over for the crusaders but the members of La Squadra have a chance to separate and fighting the crusaders their own way, Risotto and Pesci can hide, and that would be a big problem for all crusaders except avdol and maybe Joseph, Ghiaccio can be deadly if gets you off guard and half of crusaders ( Iggy, Kakyoin and Joseph, Amon can be blocked with cold like dio did in part one) don't have any way to harm him.

[@rodrigonunes295]

I was hoping you'd make a wheel to choose the fights

[@Daybroken]

all you need is jotaro's theme and la squadra is over.

[@emred4653]

its interesting how both being inside mirrors or being covered with mist thanks to white album would make graceful death even more op

[@frappessb8246]

What if wite album just covered his team in ice to freeze them and then grateful dead just gasses the crusaders? They know each others abilities so this should be a pretty easy plan for them to make. Im pretty sure they can survive with minor hypothermia or frostbite by the time the crusaders are dead

[@cinnabarmanx4214]

Avdol: Tch Tch! But yeah that wouldn’t work cause Avdol can just surround La Squadra in fire and heat them up, Magician’s Red can make it hotter than White Album can make it cold. When using Gently Weeps he can make it around -200 degrees Celsius, but Magician’s Red can instantly melt steel, which melts at around 1500 degrees Celsius. It should be even higher since it instantly melts it too. Plus even without that the problem is still that Gently Weeps will be freezing his own team to death while Grateful Dead slowly ages the Crusaders.

[@rah7866]

This is why the gas in the stadium would not work! It was literally shown that star Platinum could suck up another stands gas/mass. The other problem I heard you say yeah they could jump jotaro. Again not happening for the exact same reason. Star Platinum without using the "World" Could literally speed blitz and overpower any of their stands. Star Platinum is clocked at beyond light speed. He was almost able to keep up with Poochie

[@TheCreepyLantern]

picturing teamwork........ i imagine *i'm terrible at remembering Squadra's names.* the squad gives ice guy plenty of room, thinking it means he can Gently Weeps to his hearts content that way. Fire blast from Abdul, AND an emerald splash sent at the same time and suddenly Jotaro's in time stop distance.... trying to figure out what the fuck a crusader can do, when if at any point you're within five second range of Jotaro... that is NOT fun

[@hariman7727]

Even without Time Stop, The Crusaders are just built for combat, and are MUCH better and backing each other up.

[@braydonjohnklink-mx6yx]

I’m assuming you will be streaming because of that test stream yesterday if so what will you be streaming?

[@RheaMainz]

If they're only 20 feet/meters away from one another, I do not see how La Squadra wins. La Squadra has no way to deal with Time Stop+Star Platinum and Silver Chariot speedblitzing in addition to fire blast and Emerald Splash. I like the Squad more than the Crusaders, but putting them 20 feet/meters away from the Crusaders sounds like an immediate death sentence for the assassins. La Squadra only gains significant chance when they begin out of sight of the Crusaders since none of them have notable bursts of speed that rival Platinum and Chariot.

[@ABP0727]

The winner is whoever the writer wants to win.

[@ProjektTaku]

But, can't Illuso just bring all of La Squadra into the Mirror World with their stands, then slowly pluck the Crusaders into the Mirror World, and use their stands to beat them up?

[@kilzfordays]

I'd love to see a video on which teams in Jojo could beat Ultimate Kars. Could La Squadra beat him for example.

[@raidiscool9144]

No, I can instantly see them being countered in so many ways

[@posobio]

Well... Jotaro, Joseph and Avdol already got a counter to the aging ability.

[@WhoRUTalkingAbout]

Avdol: Is a calm individual. Gets Fire stand. Ghiaccio: Is a hothead individual. Gets Ice stand. Araki? 🤔

[@Addicted2Electronics]

one thing to mention is ghiaccio could hypothetically keep all of his team members cool if he paid attention to keep the grateful dead up as the same time as la squadra if they were to figure out that teamwork makes the dream work

[@nothingness4068]

Giacco has been stated to have like really cold temperatures but avdol never had a statement on how hot is fire is and from what see it just seams like normal fire and that wouldn't work in absolute zero or anywhere close to it. And he could just freeze and punches coming at him, it's not like star platinum is warmer then gold experience so how would giacco get hit

[@l0sts0ul89]

Dude melted a statue in like an instant, I don't think a normal fire or flame thrower could do that. It takes a plasma torch to cut thin metal that apparently those are hotter than the surface of the sun.

[@nothingness4068]

@@l0sts0ul89 really? But can a plasma torch burn in absolute zero?

[@l0sts0ul89]

@@nothingness4068 can any of La Squadra survive absolute 0 💀, also Jotaro wouldn't evem get close to Gucci "Oh anything that he comes close to freezes, time stop + stand rush = over"

[@nothingness4068]

@@l0sts0ul89 what do you mean "time stop" temperatures still flows in time stop as shown my Joseph using his hamon which when it does vampires it burns them so dio didn't touch Joseph or he would get burned, and the range of white album isn't that much it won't have any friendly fire it's only a couple meters Also I googled it it doesn't matter how hot magicians red is fire can't burn in absolute zero

[@l0sts0ul89]

@@nothingness4068 What do YOU mean "temperature still flows during time stop" Dio never used it against Joseph until later, Dio just didn't use time stop against Joseph because he's a cocky MF and even without the Hermit Purple Shield Joseph's body is still full of Hamon. Jotaro said he could've killed all the crusaders if he really wanted too, all at the same time. Also Jotaro can stop time and punch off Guccios head before he has the chance to freeze anything, also you didn't answer if any other La Squadra member could survive absolute 0 💀

[@WannaHaveaBlastTime3715]

One of the best scenario is that Jotaro tags along with Iggy to find and hunt Risotto for his Metallica. And Jotaro using Time Stop to assassinate him

[@colonfist]

Iggy can smell where Risotto being invisible is, and Jotaro can pinpoint his exact location as soon as Iggy detects Risotto approaching, afterwards Jotaro stopping time right away and sweeping Risotto out

[@tm8089]

The thing about La Squadra is, say they are down to one or two last members... Since there are many members with AOE attacks, its likely that the surviving member/s will have an AOE attack. At this point, they will probably decide to just use it all-out and if they manage to hide and survive for long enough, the crusaders just die. Which depends on how long it takes for the attack to take effect.

[@urameshitrev1851]

I dont want this to happen but kind of surprised no one in the vid made the joke of Formaggio, instantly aging Joseph to him being senile like he was in P4 or ya'know...dead.

[@doodleman07]

everyone remember that the Stardust Crusaders have PLOT ARMOR

[@lukeladin]

Ok, but are we not gonna bring up the fact that white album, the greatful death and magicians red arébasically rock paper sisors 2?

[@starsailor-iw9sr]

"Star Platinum, the world!" *Oras la squadra members one at a time, the battle ends*

[@spaceman2217]

jotaro could stop time and solo most of them or at least be a crucial asset in their defeats, especially with how spammable it is if Jotaro was in his prime with stand power, even illuso is screwed because all effects on the normal world affect the mirror world so he could stop time and just beat him up, we also can consider the shattering of anubis and transpose it to little feet's index finger, which means Jotaro could just catch the index finger with star platinum and just snap it, same with beach boy's hook or line BEFORE it enters someone, only prosciutto could be a challenge, and even then Jotaro could slow down the aging by stopping time and using the 5 seconds to either get close, strategize, or attack, strategizing in this scenario is the best idea, he can see for miles so he would be able to locate prosciutto or grateful dead and give a bearing to kakyoin or avdol to shoot at.

[@ninjax1573]

Another variable is how on timing jotaro is if he just mad and bloodlusted he’s just going to dip people timestop hole repeat and they really wouldn’t have the durability to stop that idk star finger or iggy throw

[@3000deaths1]

How big is Grateful Dead's aoe and how expansive is man in mirrors mirror realm? Depending on those, potential trap one-shot.

[@FloofMother]

Joseph is the perfect counter to Grateful Dead because of hamon’s counteraction of aging

[@AcEdits0]

and jotaro can ts when aging starts and just donut greatfull death so... he is useless

[@hariman7727]

@@AcEdits0 Star Finger, Magician's Red, Emerald Splash, and The Fool are hard counters.