Metroidvania Mega-Review pt.1 - Hollow Knight, E.S.A., Ori, and Axiom Verge

[@orlandocruz8749]

that intermission section at the end was perfect

[@Fia_Faustus]

Especially the way the male commentator does the gasping for breath thing. I didn't even realize that was a thing until now 😆

[@DarshanBhambhani]

yes

[@kennethconnally4356]

so funny lol

[@matijamaksan4344]

I didn't hear it until i saw your comment. Thank you

[@KennethConnally-np9it]

Nerrel consistently has the best end-card banter/skits of any KZbinr

[@annyske007]

Ive heard a review of a guy who also dropped into deepnest early on, he sited it as his favorite moment in gaming in years. Funny to see how people can experiencz things differently

[@yonatanbeer3475]

That was Joseph Anderson. Very, very interesting.

[@graphite7898]

I also accidently fell into Deepnest when I first played and it was one of the most dreadfully amazing feelings ever. It was just one big "oh shit" moment. Getting stuck in a mysterious, creepy place with tons of danger was so incredible. I sorta feel bad for people who got into Deepnest the usual way of defeating the Mantis Lords.

[@_ru_jfje_3692]

I beat the Lords early and dropped into deapnest early as well. Amazing experience allowed me to get the tram pass and get to kingdoms edge and beat hornet.

[@griffin1095]

Exactly. I think Nerrel just has a really hard time differentiating his own personal taste vs good game design. If he dislikes something it's immediately bad design.

[@kickitsmooth]

Griffin bruh, its called an opinion lol .If you dislike something, than in your opinion its bad design. I liked the part of getting trapped in deepnest but that doesn’t make it factually good design.

[@thrallfan1056]

This is probably the most negative review of Hollow Knight I've seen.

[@salgen1319]

Watch Vaughjogvlog's. It's utter crap and the comment section is hilarious.

[@gusgracey8721]

Rabid Moose it got so bad he turned off ratings and comments

[@HeyHeyChey]

Sounded a bit butthurt to me

[@larsonbuchholz6490]

@@HeyHeyChey I think he got salty fighting The Watcher Knights. Or maybe Hornet in Kingdom's Edge. Or maybe literally any of the bosses beyond the Moss Charger...

[@joselcontreras4574]

This is nothing but the truth

[@PinkyJustice]

I can't believe you had the balls to start with that hollow Knight review. As always, I'm impressed

[@SamFromItalia]

He has the most batshit insane takes yet somehow I always agree with him, either he's a master of manipulation, or I'm just a retard

[@Flop-Bop]

I just returned to this because a reddit post said it’s been 5 years since Silksong was announced. It reminded me of the only review i’d seen that was critical (and described how/why i didn’t feel much for the game). I dunno, i played it before I’d seen this review many years ago. It just never *hit like other metroidvanias. Like, Blasphemous is incredible to me, HK was challenging but made me feel nothing

[@yonatanbeer3475]

It's interesting how Joseph Anderson was dropped into a similar situation to your Deepnest romp and praised it as one of the highlights of his playthrough.

[@atijohn8135]

Two different persons, seeking different things in games. Joseph Anderson seeking for intense moments and challenge for the sake of challenge, Nerrel seeking for various and interesting areas and rewarding for your working.

[@megasoniczxx]

I'll be honest and say I really liked that part too. Beating the Mantis Lords was its own reward back when I did it (and the game essentially telling me to come back later when I could kill them quicker didn't help to dissuade me), getting into deep nest was pretty fun as it showed that you could truly just go places if you wanted to. Of course, since I didn't have the lamp on me I just backtracked since I could tell it would only lead to more deaths if I just blindly walked through.

[@jackgarcia5926]

The same thing happened to me and I don't feel strongly one way or the other. Nerrel has a more tangible reason for his opinion tough.

[@TheElderStunt]

To be fair, Joseph IS a massive

[@Cheffihn]

Someone who likes dark souls and beaten celeste should have no problem with that

[@slaphappy6705]

never seen anyone rip into Hollow knight so hard. Weird to see him talk negatively about parts of the game i liked alot (besides running back to bosses).

[@iainkay1561]

Honestly, I kinda discounted his opinion when he said "There were optional bosses I wouldn't have fought if I knew how inconsequential it was." Fighting bosses basically IS the game. If you're not finding them fun, the game isn't for you.

[@HAWKEYESOLO]

@@iainkay1561 There's truth to that. I think that going to a dangerous area is part of the journey; you don't know what's going to happen when you enter a new area and letting players go almost anywhere even if not mapped out adds to the sense of adventure, in my opinion.

[@Paradox1012]

@@iainkay1561 i agree, also there is a reason lol. >godhome

[@kylehart8829]

I'd argue that hollow knight does literally everything SM does, but better. Backtracking to bosses is rarely actually an issue and Super Metroid does it worse. The only reason you might notice it less is because of how few bosses are in the game compared to HK. Hallownest is a much more interesting world (and it's so much bigger that it isn't even reasonable to compare it to Zebes) with a rich history to unravel, the different areas are distinct and colorful with each carrying a unique atmosphere, the upgrade system is so much more open-ended which means almost none of the game involves searching for one specific power up to progress as you can beat the game with only a handful of upgrades, death actually has consequences aside from making you tediously repeat everything you've done since saving, the oppressive parts of the game are better at giving the player a feeling of dread, the combat is actually interesting and challenging, the map system is the best the genre has ever seen, etc. If you're going to argue that SM is the better game and continue to do so despite the fact that every single aspect of the game that gets praise was improved upon drastically by Hollow Knight, then you're just ignoring the idea that a genre pioneer didn't get everything right.

[@baaaldur]

Iain Kay exactly. i love nerrel but i really didn't get his reasoning there. why do you need a *reason* to go and do the fun stuff? exploring is the fun part. fighting bosses is the fun part. getting yourself in scary, tricky situations is the fun part. and even then, the rewards werent bad at all if you ask me. charms that change how you play the game? the grub sidequest? money which you can use to buy more abilities? extra lore which is interesting and well written?

[@BenWengerMan]

"The music [in axiom verge] can be weird to the point of annoying" --- **proceeds to play my favorite song in the game**

[@Allen.Christian]

I like that tune a lot when just listening to the OST, but when playing the game I sometimes wish it would calm the fuck down a bit.

[@vintheguy]

What track is that? Thanks for the reply bud

[@anguset]

@@vintheguy Inexorable. My favourite track in one of my favourite soundtracks too.

[@vintheguy]

@@anguset thanks

[@officegossip]

The most hellfire banginest track in the entire game.

[@IronPineapple]

eagerly awaiting you to discuss dark souls and give it a 6/10

[@dalgusmaximus4557]

So dark souls is a metroidvania?

[@billyblueberry]

@@dalgusmaximus4557 very

[@dalgusmaximus4557]

@@billyblueberry That's what I was thinking too. It's game design is practically in the same category.

[@DolphinTillTheEnd]

Dark souls is grown up tloz with metroidvania elements

[@echoineternity8087]

@@dalgusmaximus4557 dark souls is incredibly similar to super metroid. Heavy metroidvania overlap but there arent *suit power ups

[@chrisossu2070]

Hollow Knight stands at a weird but strangely compelling crossroads between a traditional Metroidvania and a Soulslike. On one hand, navigating an interconnected map through platforming by making use of a growing pool of navigation abilities is very Metroidvania-like. On the other hand, you don't feel your character becoming tangibly stronger as you progress. You just get more skilled. Any upgrade that exists only exists to give you additional safety nets, which is why many of them aren't found in the world the same way upgrades in a traditional Metroidvania would be. It is a game built for those hungering for the next challenge, which is why there are so many hidden bosses in the game because the realms they inhabit and the lore they provide is the reward in the place of something that would actually strengthen your character. Which is to say, people going to Hollow Knight expecting a traditional Metroidvania might find themselves frustrated at the lack of character progression and traditional rewards for exploration, while those who seek to just lose themselves in a world that was actually built to be hostile will have a lot to chew on.

[@shmarfle47]

Chris Chen For me, I went into Hollow Knight hoping it would fill what I felt was missing from the Metroidvanias that I’ve played: skilled fights. I didn’t like the health bar system and just shooting things from afar. With HK, each hit you took is and felt significant. You had to get up close and personal with bosses to charge soul. Which adds to the skill part as you need to know when is a good time to attack and when is a good time to heal (NKG still my favorite fight by far right next to Pure Vessel). The entire game gave me the fights that I longed for from Metroidvania games. Part of this is because I love the Kirby games. Learning how to fight a boss by reading their quick visual clues is something I love about Kirby and is why I love HK as well.

[@vp757_]

Chris Chen This. This is exactly what I was thinking

[@DigiTism]

Chris Chen I don’t think it’s a crossroads at all. Dark Souls was basically a Metroidvania in itself when it came to level design and the interconnection of the map. The only thing out of the three standard tropes of a Metroidvania it lacks is power ups to reach new areas.

[@DementedDuskull]

Chris Chen I agree, it was easy to attribute my success in my first playthrough to just getting the upgrades, but then during my second playthrough of the game I could legitimately feel how much better I was at it, like I had been building up my skills without even realizing it. That second playthrough was a blast.

[@WolfKitOF]

Chris Chen I mean, look at the Godmaster dlc. The whole thing is just a series of boss rushes, with the reward being new, harder boss fights. And a new ending cutscene. And I love it, because the boss fights are so good. Except Grey Prince Zote. He can die in a fire.

[@KhurramShahzad-id7qy]

The Project AM2R Creator has Designed the Levels For The Ori Developer Moon Studios. I am happy for him, he got his dream job.

[@truegamer_007]

Nah, his dream job would be Nintendo hiring him to work on Metroid 6/Remake Super Metroid.

[@vintheguy]

@@truegamer_007 Do you know that for certain?

[@truegamer_007]

@@vintheguy He spent a decade working on AM2R, so yes.

[@vintheguy]

@@truegamer_007 He may not wish to directly work with the company however, due to this fiasco or them limiting his creative ability

[@theremix54]

They hired the guy who made AM2R? Meaning they hired a guy who specifically did not need to design any new levels to make new levels?

[@chavesa5]

4 years later and I'm still in agreement -- Hollow Knight is very pretty but it feels more like a proof of concept for a proper Metroidvania blended with Souls. What's really funny is that we're as close to Silksong now as we were then.

[@blooper5li]

Seeing everyone get angry at Nerrel's take on Hollow Knight is fascinating to me because I actually fall on both sides of the argument. Hollow Knight is an excellent game. The art direction is flawless, the game plays near-perfectly, and the game's highs are incredible. That said, Nerrel is dead on in every complaint he has, because he went in looking for a Metroidvania. Nerrel has his own criteria for how he understands the Metroidvania genre, and I agree that Hollow Knight fails to meet many of them. Specifically, I think his opinion on Deep Nest really cements this point. From the perspective of a difficult action-adventure game, it's an ambitious design choice that is built to astound new players and to give veterans an extra challenge. However, from the perspective of a Metroidvania, it's a design decision that punishes exploration and forces players down a hyper-difficult, linear path where they are no longer in control of the experience. Depending on what mindset you walk in with, the decision can be seen as genius or fun-ruining. If you go into Hollow Knight specifically looking for a Metroidvania, you're probably not going to love it. Is it Nerrel's fault to expect the game to be something it isn't? Maybe, but the point of this review was to categorize these games as Metroidvanias based on pre-established criteria. According to that criteria, Hollow Knight fails. I think that's the main takeaway here.

[@dalgusmaximus4557]

That's honestly a great take. In hindsight, I pretty much lived everything aspect of the game aside from it's overly all levele design and how the game conditions you to explore it's world. The combat, bosses, movement, music, and overall sound is phenomenal but actually exploring the world of hollow knight was really boring.

[@javiercortes814]

Except my boy didn't pay any attention to the warnings of not entering Deepnest. Place is creepy af, Cornifer is scared, Quirrel says you should go to City of Tears, etc...

[@blooper5li]

@@javiercortes814 I think he's talking about the initial drop. Either way you go in, there's a drop that will take some work to get out of. If you go in through the Mantis Lords, it's also a lot harder to get a map, which makes navigation nearly impossible. I've seen people go in a little bit, try to find their way out, and accidentally go the wrong way to the big drop instead.

[@kenzovargas241]

Hey bro, you dropped this *gives crown*

[@1colonelsanders]

I wouldn't say he was dead on in every complaint he had. For example, his complaint about how every area looks the same was a dumb thing to harp on. Sure the areas aren't wildly different, but ranging from grassy to dark caves to purple crystals is about the level of area variety you get in most games including metroid ones. You'd have to play a mario game or something to get super different areas like he seems to want.

[@AC-rj1cq]

Your take on hollow knight is still the most accurate I’ve ever heard. If there even is a silksong game, they better have been spending the last decade fixing the monotony and insane tedium of hollow knight. Because there’s no way I’m going through that much work again. Felt like a video game version of algebra 2.

[@cumdungeon]

“This is a game where you can finally beat a boss and die at the same time” *screeches in Pure Vessel*

[@salgen1319]

No, Pure Vessel doesn't scream. It does a SILENCE EFFECT AND IT'S SO COOL! Like, if you'd have external sound playing over the fight, it'd be quieter.

[@Shmoreo]

In hall of gods right In hall of gods right ?

[@oshawott6468]

I would like to point out one criticism you have about Hollow Knight, when you're talking about the atmosphere you seem to just note the blue dark tone that remains for a few areas, however, you don't seem to notice any other themes around it. Deepnest is area infested with Araneae typed creatures, by the corner of Deepnest lies the Distant Village where it's covered in webs. Kingdom's edge has this huge pit where failed combatants of the colosseum of fools would then be thrown down landing on platforms, branching off of that pit will lead with a background that consists of white ash falling from above. The Forgotten Crossroads eventually gets infected with an orange color that's shown with the background and new enemies I understand completely of why you didn't like hollow Knight as much with other Metroidvanias and for most of the video Nerrel, I see you being completely valid, I only I made this comment just because of one of your jokes just made fun of Crystal Peak by saying "It's purple now" and I kind of got little bit offended

[@sandmaneyes]

Wasn't there also a jungle/garden area? Completely ignored.

[@oshawott6468]

@@sandmaneyes Yes, Greenpath, Fog canyon, Queen's Garden, Fungal Waste, Crystal Peak, and the Hive are areas that do avoid the grayish-blue tone. However, in my prior comment, I too ignored the other areas (except Crystal Peak) as the sole point of my counter-argument was mainly talking about the environment in the areas then the color tone, Plus most of the bigger areas are the ones that use the dark/gray-blue colors.

[@poultriarchy]

Oshawott64 I wonder if his grievances have anything to do with the fact there are no slopes in hollow knight. I thought the game felt homogenous for a long time with no good reason until I went and played a few other metroidvanias and realised 95% of surfaces in hollow knight are completely flat. It gives every environment the same boxy feel and I feel it might subconsciously add to a nagging itch of tedium.

[@Ismael-kc3ry]

I don’t really see how a lack of slopes surfaces is a problem. HK makes its exploration and plat forming interesting without them.

[@hellboy19991]

@@poultriarchy i needed someone else to tell me that there are no slopes in the entire game, even after playing ori and axiom verge. It's a weird design choice and the only thing that might have improved the game for me just the tiniest bit over what I had in the end. I have played the game for something like 100 hours, and the only thing that actually annoyed me was the final pantheon. I did everything the game had to offer with the exception of binding runs and would do it all over again if I had more time on my hands.

[@sam_barris]

The whole "no save points before boss fights" thing started with Dark Souls, I believe. I hate it. Difficulty is fine. I grew up in the 8-bit era, after all. But I don't have an unlimited amount of time to cover the same ground over and over and over again, so that's sadly a critical failure in what might otherwise be a magnificent game.

[@Tankirb]

its still a magnificent game. I agree the bench being closer to some of the bosses would be nice

[@sam_barris]

@@Tankirb No doubt it is. I still consider that a critical failure. At the very least, a sign that the developers have no respect for your time. I think I know why this sort of thing gets to me more than it does some others. When I was a kid, my father hated video games. I don't mean that in the sense that my screen time was limited or that I had to finish my homework and chores before I could play. I mean that he refused to coexist in the same reality as the NES. I had to hide mine in a shoebox under my bed. I could only take it out and hook it up when he wasn't around, and the second I heard the garage door go up, I had to unhook it and hide it as fast as possible, because if he ever saw it, into the trash it would go. Fortunately, I only had to sneak out and rescue it from the garbage a few times, because I got really good at unhooking it. I was like a Marine field stripping a rifle. This meant that there were otherwise great games I simply could not play because getting to a designated save point before shutting the console down was not a luxury I ever had in my formative gaming years, nor was my gaming time so abundant that I could afford to do the same thing over and over. I freely admit that this is probably mostly a me problem. ;-)

[@TheEpicPancake]

I think it works in dark souls better since the healing was limited. Getting to the boss more efficiently gave you better chances at killing the boss since you could make more mistakes. In hollow knight there doesn't seem to be much reason to it. I definitely feel limited time though. A lot of the games I enjoy these days I can't play because there's so much empty space that I might not get anywhere of note in a day.

[@fsnow55]

@@sam_barris nice story man. My kids are not athletic so nes is our sports conduit.

[@Ryan-Petre]

I dunno man, some games just demand commitment.

[@Cinnacal]

Honestly, Metroidvania is one of the most interesting genres, and it’s something I never expected to enjoy. But after Super Metroid, I’ve been more open to trying other Metroidvanias, and hell maybe this will motivate me to play more of them

[@Thirteen13551355]

Yes, I love the 'platformer adventure' genre! It's not fully linear, but it isn't open world either. The progression curves of these games are my favourites, growing stronger gives an awesome feeling. The Castlevanias with these elements are my personal favourites of the genre. I strongly, very strongly recommend Symphony of the Night, Aria of Sorrow, or Dawn of Sorrow (with some hacks).

[@GreetingsMortal]

The Mega Man Zero series has some metroidvania elements, particularly in later games, and the collection just released. I recommend checking them out

[@Thirteen13551355]

@@GreetingsMortal Agreed, but I feel the target audience for MMZero differs greatly (check them out if you enjoy fast-paced gameplay, though, in which case I also recommend the Gunvolt series, also by Inti Creates).

[@therentpursuer9869]

@@GreetingsMortal Only the first MMZ game has a connected world (which gives it a novelty status). Then you have ZX1 with a shitty, needlessly confusing map. And ZX Advent with a better map. Zero 3 is the best of the series (hell it's one of the best Megaman games period). While the ZX games are mostly so-so with moments of greatness. Holy shit, I just realized that I am replying to the wrong person whoops >/< that's a bruh moment

[@Thirteen13551355]

@@therentpursuer9869 Yeah, exactly. These six games are great, but certainly not BECAUSE of the 'Metroidvania' 'elements.'

[@maximusprime1994]

After hearing his opinions on Hollow Knight it would be interesting to see what Nerrel makes of Dark Souls

[@thegrimreaper7]

All his complaints on HK are based on the DS inspired mechanics so he'd probably hate it. I bet he'd call bad design that you can get ass raped by skeletons if you go the "wrong" way in firelink.

[@Slidius]

probably similar to hollow knight and a bit more. Also imo i don't think the souls series is as hard as people make it out to be and people just exaggerate it's difficulty when really it's those players being incompetent by having poor stamina management or game awareness and when they beat the game they say they did it like it verifies them as some kind of pro gamer. the best example i can think of a player being incompetent like this is on youtube as an example is gamegrumps where they played bloodborne and arin was in control and he was just bad at the game and then my friend was telling me about how hard looking the game was ( i wasn't watching that series cause i beat the game and was weary of GG humor) and so i told him it's really not, so i booted it up made new character killed the first monster bare handed and beat the first two bosses just show him and prove my point arin was bad just because he wasn't paying attention to his surrounding, enemies attack or timing etc and i do get that he is talking at the same time playing but still i feel that most ppl can talk and play at the same time even then with most games,fuck i tend to find that strategy games are kinda hard to talk and play at the same time just because u gotta think more. but yea any ways the souls games all have flaws from route progressions, cheap traps , throwing 6 dudes at u once to break the combat system and to compensate for the broken AI or boss that just 2 shot you is what i think nerrel would say maybe

[@tammielisa]

You can level up in dark souls

[@theTYTAN3]

I have pretty much the same opinion of Hollow knight as Nerrel. Dark souls is phenomenal. Roughly 90% of my time in Hollow Knight was spent going back and forth trying to figure out the best way to go next and not finding one, then dying, going back to get my loot, going down another dead end and repeating the process. Dark Souls always has at least 1 clear path forward. Hollow Knight is a labyrinth of dead ends and endless meandering, I never got around to beating it despite loving the art style and the approach it took to combat. In large part due to that lack of progress,the game got far too repetitive, far too fast, in both ambience and combat. I've never had that problem with any of the From Software games I've played. If I had to guess this has to do with my tendency to avoid the main path first so that I can find more secrets, in dark souls this works fine because if you can go somewhere you can generally either make it back to where you were easily, or continue down that new path and make progress in that direction instead.

[@dp7552]

thegrimreaper7 Except in Dark Souls to avoid the skeletons you just turn back to where you came from?

[@imperfect_rain]

First time I've heard anything negative about HK, and I'm glad someone actually had a different opinion. Was pretty refreshing to listen to.

[@AlphaladZXA]

Yeah as someone who is playing it now finally this losing all your money system with how hard the game already is just comes off as annoying. Especially when like nerrel said you can pick up items that can just get turned into money anyway comes off as very counter intuitive. And the bench hunting due to lack of linearity has also been very annoying cause it's really not that necessary.

[@AlphaladZXA]

@Ahmed Malaki that's what I feared, I already got through the crystal mine and fungal caverns and so far besides the lamp money just doesn't seem very well utilized and it's annoying.

[@algea2921]

@@AlphaladZXA I agree, someone having a different opinion is great, especially his point on the collectibles being aside for being extra cash just worthless, which is something I really hope Silksong greatly improves upon. However, all the stuff like being able to lose your money is exactly what I love about Hollow Knight; It's one of the few games that dares to put a middle finger to the player, allowing the stakes to be higher, causing you to think and explore more carefully, and in turn really make you feel like you're on an adventure. I had gotten myself into the same situation as Nerrel where I got trapped in Deepnest too early, but again that made me feel like I was on an actual adventure. The fact I had navigate my way out and actually succeeded was a real satisfying moment and made the world more immersive for me- Deepnest was actually a place I feared for a long time. We need more games like Hollow Knight that dare to forgo the excessive handholding that's the gold standard in most games nowadays.

[@kevinc62]

@@algea2921 I disagree. I hate this trend of having to punish the player for dying repeatly and how it is praised. It literally punishes exploration and feels cheap as trying to copy Souls game, when there is no business having that mechanic in a Metroidvania.

[@algea2921]

@@kevinc62 Then go play the thousand other games, not every game had to be for you.

[@notyourdad221]

Nerrel: hollow knight is stinky Everyone: *so you have chosen death*

[@vintheguy]

Bruh this is nothing compared to the tlj vid

[@notyourdad221]

Nathaniel Arndt Who’s TLJ

[@vintheguy]

@@notyourdad221 The Last Jedi

[@juancampos9468]

tbh i kinda agree with him i found the game really boring

[@dp7552]

They hated him for he spoke the truth.

[@Lazypackmule]

Huh, I'm normally a person who vastly prefers rewards, and having a reason to actually do things, but I just can't agree with your opinion on Hollow Knight at all I guess it's just that HK is so well put together and offers such a refreshing challenge that a lot of the things you shat on for not having that much incentive already feel like their own reward

[@emperortgp2424]

Most tough challenges have a grub/mask shard/soul vessel/charm as reward. Lore is usually the reward for finding hidden alcoves or rooms. Vendor items are usually rewarded upon finding and beating hidden micro-challanges. To me the rewards seem very proportionate honestly.

[@Croissantcreep]

The Lore is very awesome! I dont understand why he dosent like it.

[@Shaun32887]

This is how I feel. Hollow Knight is so tight and well desifned that the gameplay IS the reward. I enjoy transiting the world and fighting bosses. I didn't need a reward for beating certain bosses, comoleting the challenge was a reward in itself. I honestly never even noticed the lack of rewards until this video pointed it out. I do wish I had more charm slots though. There were some cool synergies I never got to play with because I'd often rather have the compass and gathering swarm.

[@Alan-gu1hp]

@@Shaun32887 agreed

[@moth5799]

@@Shaun32887 I can understand the compass bit but what's the point of gathering swarm? It's not like geo is difficult to get, why do you use it? I'm just interested, since I never understood the point.

[@fy8798]

Glad you gave Hollow Knight a more honest review rather than just go with the common consensus and praise its flaws because that's what people wanted to hear. It's much more interesting to see such views than people parroting what the community decided was true.

[@mynameisleeqo4329]

nuclear take: you can love hollow knight and enjoy nerrel's review

[@surobyk]

That's just double think

[@SomeGuy-so3kk]

@@surobyk The value of a review doesn't come from how much you agree with it but from the quality of the arguments made and the presentation of said arguments. Therefore it is not doublethink to enjoy a review that you didn't agree with as long as the opinions presented were intellectually interesting.

[@moongirl-d9h]

YOU CAN WHAT?? BLASPHEMY!

[@surobyk]

@Quantum Passport You can enjoy a game a then listen a influencer blatantly lying about it:

[@caiomesquita268]

Can I dislike the game AND his review though?

[@ObeseChess]

This was my experience with Hollow Knight too, glad someone else felt this because I was starting to feel like I was insane.

[@hawkbirdtree3660]

I felt the same as well. The combat is well done, I love the music, the art is fantastic, but I never really felt the need to continue playing, and I don't know why? This game should've been a perfect fit for me. On the other hand, I was expecting nothing from ESA, and that game humbled me, and now I consider it of the best games I've ever played.

[@Smudger1865]

Hey Nerrel, were you having a good day? You sound much more energetic.

[@raff1944]

i hope he was

[@Nerrel]

Worst day of my life

[@corbinwilliams4045]

@@Nerrel lmao

[@lor8262]

@@Nerrel you ok bro?

[@maroonkennedy5552]

BazziKoran I appreciate your positivity 🥰

[@uraalice]

"One female viewer" Finally, recognition.

[@contendo64]

Y-You're a female? and you like video games? be still my beating heart

[@uraalice]

@@contendo64 I like video games, and video game analysis. The total package.

[@LocalAnonOnTheInternet]

One female viewer with best girl profile pic. Take my like.

[@della2645]

Hey I'm here too.

[@lydia1120]

Hi I'm here too

[@mckaynoffz3687]

I find it interesting how everything Nerrel criticized Hollow Knight for are the same things every other critic is praising it for.

[@Star-vy5vm]

I don't wanna sound butthurt. But it really did feel like he was just salty

[@nivdy]

Yeah. Metroidvanias are a very open genera, and people can enjoy things that others don't. I personally love everything about hollow Knight, and it's in my top 5 games of all time

[@bluesleeper8677]

@@nivdy Same, it's an amazing game

[@Dawnofdreams64]

He secretly likes linearity that doesn't lock doors on him, thats literally it. hes a closet linear.

[@vintheguy]

@@Dawnofdreams64 Watch his pt2 to this series

[@seanpiece]

I love Hollow Knight, but I can't disagree on your criticisms of the game! I love hearing a different opinion well-explained, and this only makes me appreciate your reviews more.

[@leticiamg123]

I see where you're trying to get at with the critique of Hollow Knight's design, but I personally think the developpers were aiming at a Dark-Souls-esque level design where the majority of achievements serve the purpose of expanding the lore. Since the characters and writting is fantastic, I didn't bother much. Though I have to agree that collecting hundreds of dream-whatevers just to see an ending that doesn't suck is quite frustrating. I finished Ori last week and loved most of the time I've spent with it, but after it ended, all I could think about was "yeah, it was fine". Axiom Verge didn't really appeal to me that much, maybe I will give it another chance, after this review.

[@SlytherpuffHouse]

I agree that the Devs were much going for a Dark Souls thing with Hollow Knight. It's why they have the Journals and other sell for cash items, they're bankable currency that stays with you after you die. That's literally their entire purpose, they could have just been cash drops, but instead they're cash that you can't lose until you're ready to convert it into dollarydoos and take it to the shop.

[@MAYOFORCE]

I mean they really nailed the experience of being in a miserable shithole down, it's just that being in a miserable shithole for an entire game generally makes the game feel like a miserable shithole

[@jackgarcia5926]

According to the devs themselves, they weren't trying to replicate Dark souls...so there's that. Take it as you will.

[@erikf5574]

Not replicate, but the way they tell the story is definitely inspired by Dark Souls. It's an interesting way of story telling that let's the player piece things together themselves rather than outright tell you what's going on.

[@psycojester]

I mean to each their own and everything, but how exactly do areas like Greenpath and the City of Tears read as 'miserable shithole' to you? There's nowhere in Hollow Knight that has the same atmosphere of rotting decrepitude as something like Blighttown from Dark Souls. Most of the game does a very effective job at conveying decaying grandeur more than anything else.

[@ferris9964]

Surprised why everyone is so pissed about his opinion of hollow knight. He respected the people who loved the game, y’all should give him the same respect.

[@jonahclements9549]

People are respecting his opinion dude. Except for a couple random people(one of which he pinned which casts everyone else in a worse light) everyone has been respectful.

[@echoineternity8087]

No one is mad he is just getting roasted because he doesnt know what he is talking about

[@DeskoDev]

Finally, Environmental Station Alpha's getting the attention it deserves. EDIT: Dammit.

[@jeffboy4231]

well not really, people just talking about hollow knight lol

[@noheffthing]

@@jeffboy4231 let him have his moment

[@masterdhise]

Can I say as a game that as popular as hollow knight, seeing a pretty polarizing opinion about hollow knight hasn't garnered hate. It's cool to see people posting their opinions on why they disagree with you. It's refreshing to see people articulate them selves and be able to respect other opinions instead of just raging out. You all are a great community.

[@dalgusmaximus4557]

Lol a few comments down from this one and a different perspective emerges.

[@TheEpicPancake]

It's garnered a fair amount of hate, though there's a lot more people disagreeing and giving reason as to why than direct "fuck you your opinion is wrong"

[@nottucks]

The top 2 comments are people making fucking essays about how wrong he is

[@ishfy8319]

Not at all lol. I left a comment about my criticisms of the game, and made it a respectful message and encouraged discussion and differing opinions in the last paragraph. But this one guy replied to my comment in a really mean way and brought up things that really dont matter. And he used the term "subjective wrong opinions" which makes completely no sense

[@masterdhise]

i can't believe my comment is 9 months old... anyways I hope youre doing well. Great video

[@vaugna1620]

I get why people love Hollow Knight, I desperately wanted to love Hollow Knight, but it just did not gel with me. I mostly enjoyed my time with it but I'm not going to lose sleep over not finishing it.

[@Alberich_Prince_of_Dwarves]

Honestly, I think it's fine that there are people (like yourself) who just aren't into Hollow Knight. I applaud any and all players of the game for ever trying it out. It's a tired comparison, but Hollow Knight is the Dark Souls of Metroidvanias. It's brutal and punishing and sometimes you just gotta step away from a game to appreciate other games.

[@Forthelemon]

I loved the movement controls, combat and visual style. Woulda made a great linear action platformer.

[@therentpursuer9869]

Yeah, I think of Hollow Knight more as a Megaman ZX game with a dark aesthetic and slightly better map. The game has great core mechanics and fun bosses (who are albeit kinda unoriginal when it comes to movesets). The only thing that irks me about it is that it has this artsy-fartsy, too big for it's britches stink to it. In my opinion it would've been better as, like another person said, a more linear metroidvania/action game.

[@dalgusmaximus4557]

Beating the ga.e was doable for me. 100% it on the other hand...

[@jackgarcia5926]

@@Alberich_Prince_of_Dwarves it ain't even particularly hard, there are plenty of reasons to dislike it beyond difficulty.

[@gino2868]

I never finished Hollow Knight and never knew quite why. It just happened. I never understood what I didn't like about it until I heard you say it here. Now I realize that yea, the game was hard, but without any good rewards that made me want to keep up with the challenge. Didn't care for the story, didn't care for the characters, and the world didn't captivate me. The gameplay was insanely fun, but that alone didn't keep me going. It became a chore after a while and I lost my willingness to go back. Games like the soul series are hard in their own way but they manage to keep you interested.

[@dogu1601]

Same here! How the game freezes for a second when you get hit also ruined the combat for me, so the gameplay wasnt fun either.

[@aeropulse1392]

@@dogu1601 omg same. I can be focused and "in the zone" during a bossfight, then I take damage, the game does that freeze thing, the ambience cuts abruptly. Just kills my focus. After a while you can get used to it but its still very distracting.

[@dogu1601]

@@aeropulse1392 and people think this is a good “feature” as well lmao

[@gu3z185]

@@dogu1601 What do you mean "feature?" Are you implying that it wasn't intentional? Because it certainly was, and is used in other animations in game, like the parry. It's just cool and it doesn't lose me focus anyway since the music keeps going at the same speed and the only thing that changes is volume.

[@dogu1601]

@@gu3z185 Of course I know that it’s intentional. I’m just saying that it takes away from the game instead of improving it imo. If you think it’s cool, more power to you, I just think it’s intrusive and uncomfortable.

[@setoravenclaw]

Nerrel chose to piss off one the most annoying fandoms in videogames in recent years. Good one man.

[@kotzer71]

i can see hollowknights community being annoying but one of the most no not even close it's like a 3 out of 10 on the annoying factor

[@pixelxemper4007]

I cant see how the hollow knight fandom is annoying at all and "in recent years" this video is three years old bruh

[@yggdrasilsaltar]

hollow knight’s community is too busy wallowing in misery to be annoying

[@Bone237]

All of these replies to your comment are annoying. 👍

[@mysticartificial4022]

Woah that Hollow night review/critique made everyone so upset that it overshadowed the other 3 games on the list. Environmental station alpha is such an amazing game, it's been a long time since I played a challenging but rewarding game like this one. My only complaint would be that the power ups don't open as many paths as you'd expect. For example, you see red blocks throughout the game. You then *spoiler* get a power up that allows you to brake them. But only in one direction. Like, there's this section at the beginning of the game I keep coming back to only to find i can only progress for 1 or 2 screens before being hit with another roadblock lol. At least these roadblocks are visually distinct enough to remind me to come back to check them out... Only to find a new roadblock up ahead haha. My metroidvania instinct leads me to check every nook and cranny to use my new power up when the better way to enjoy this game would be to get follow the main story, get every power and then do a power ups/secrets/room completion roundup at the end of it. Solid game, that's for sure. The bosses are definitely some of the more challenging in the genre. The graphics gave me a headache at first, but my 22" monitor definitely helped me with that haha. And yes, the hookshot definitely can get you in places you're not supposed to see yet. Sometimes you get rewarded, sometimes not.

[@yasq1482]

The Hollow Knight section is over a third of the video, makes sense it overshadowed the other 3

[@vadarman9906]

Bad takes tend to overshadow good ones

[@BlondeSancho-qb9hz]

Honest review*@@vadarman9906

[@PorkpieJohnny]

Really I'm most impressed by how many different voices you can pull off in all of your different bits

[@CompanionPrism]

If one game doesn't actually get a 15 I will be very sad.

[@fwobebe5164]

One gets a 15

[@why3994]

5:20 it's not like collecting enough essence gives you the true dream nail and lets you unlock the radiance bossfight ending or anything...

[@why3994]

@[REDACTED] if you don't want spoilers why are you watching this video :/

[@dalgusmaximus4557]

The reward is another boss fight?

[@why3994]

@@dalgusmaximus4557 well, it's the best way to beat the game. plus, it's optional

[@dooplon5083]

@@dalgusmaximus4557 Yes, and a whole new area to challenge yourself with as well as a pretty well written true ending sequence (though said sequence is mostly visuals and little dialog). However, while that's all that the *full collection* of essence does, the character you speak to to unlock the final boss actually checkpoints your progress on essence collection by giving you new items and occasional powerups depending on how much essence you've collected so far, such as charms or the ability to place down a teleport for you to warp back to should you ever find the need (like if you want to get back to a boss room instantly after deciding to put it off till later or dying to it). While you only get one teleport you can place it on almost any flat ground, barring rooms in dreams, and some of the items she gives you are pretty darn useful anyway, so collecting enough essence for all the rewards you want but not collecting enough for the true dream nail and the final ending is a valid strategy to use.

[@AgarthanExecutioner]

Yeah, honestly the hk section of the video was very poorly thought out and grossly misinformed. Like of course you're gonna hate deepnest if you don't have the mantis claw lol The level layout was fine, too. You wouldn't go from a lush forest straight into spider hell, it has to all connect

[@kinggimpy]

I bought hollow Knight I really wanted to enjoy it. And there are aspects of it I do enjoy, it has an amazing aesthetic a beautiful art style and a wonderful soundtrack. But I agree with pretty much everything you said and I will probably never finish the game I just don't care to go back to it

[@davismorgan99]

It’s such an interesting game and just doesn’t resonate with everyone. It’s my favorite game of all time but I can very easily understand why a lot of people don’t enjoy it. I wasn’t a big Metroidvania guy before I played so I had no expectations. I thought it was a shovel knight spin-off haha.

[@bcij1137]

There is a coop mod for hollow knight. Maybe with a friend you find more fun playing it

[@XATH0RN]

I hope La-Mulana gets looked at! It's one of my favorite games! I hope he hates it!

[@1nuy45h1]

The La-Mulana fandom in its full sadistic glory

[@Edgeperor]

1nuy45h1 I mean, it’s pretty reasonable to hope that the game you love gets the same treatment as Hollow Knight, even if it is negative

[@timkimmel9935]

After all these years of trying to find out exactly why I can't get into Hollow Knight, you explain it in five minutes. Great content, man.

[@basil7ksa]

Too hard for you

[@timkimmel9935]

@@basil7ksa oh no

[@ishfy8319]

Thanks

[@nguyennguyenphuc7462]

Git gud

[@Edgeperor]

Learn the matchu- oh wait wrong game

[@daviddelpozofiliu5556]

I feel like, in Hollow Knight, the bosses are the reward for exploration.

[@ShieldBugger]

same

[@neoaquadolphin]

bruh

[@WildcardZwei]

EXACTLY.

[@yoshibeara3446]

Ya but are they any good like the mawle which can be the first boss you fight if you are dumb like me

[@doblo2670]

The constant boss fights just started to get on my nerves the more I played it

[@Sagi.Baten.Kaitos]

Nerrel has had a lot of based opinions over the years, but his review of Hollow Knight is easily the most based thing he's ever done on camera

[@and8091]

How is it biased?

[@Sagi.Baten.Kaitos]

@@and8091 It's based because he agrees with my completely biased opinion

[@KatSuYeah]

@@and8091 try again

[@DementedDuskull]

4:43 Salubra's shop is actually an example of 1:20 since you encounter it early on, but can't get up until you get the wall jump.

[@Mik-kv8xx]

Did you ever play a Metroid game? You don't unlock the wall jump you always have it from the start

[@DementedDuskull]

@@Mik-kv8xx The wall jump or the dash, actually*. But the specific powerup is not important to the example.

[@DementedDuskull]

@@Mik-kv8xx Also the first two games didn't have wall jumping, smart guy.

[@TheAsdfghhh]

“Apologies to my female viewer” haha 😂

[@thomaster8870]

Your name seems very feminine. Might you be that female viewer? Either that or two velociraptors in a trenchcoat communicating in morse code to coordinate their limb movements in an effort to create the appearance of a singular human being. According to Google's statistics there's also one viewer like that. KZbin stats are weirdly detailed.

[@MrCapi95]

Wow. All the things you complained about in hollowknight are the things that made the game fun for me. Getting trapped in Deepnest early game, the darksouls-like death system, the fact that the world is not filled with meaningless upgrades that only change the animation or add to a healthpool that’s already too big. Some bosses seem to be too far from a bench, but the developers tackled this in a different way. If you invest enough time exploring you will find the game is riddled with shortcuts. Even when the bench is essentially next to the boss room you go kill some easy npcs to replenish your souls.

[@atijohn8135]

not to mention, there's a dreamgate ability that lets you skip straight to the boss literally for free

[@SoffiCitrus]

@@atijohn8135 And only 3/4 of the way through the game, wowee

[@jeromealday614]

Nerrel is firing in all cylinders and I love every second of it 😂😂

[@danielheflick1529]

"If the game is extremely linear and directly tells the player where to go, it's doing this wrong." *shows footage of Other M and Fusion* THANK YOU

[@aurum3747]

Luckily, fusion still manages to be a fun game

[@UmDevoto]

@@aurum3747 at the time fusion was damn good bcuz of that but grew bad on the fanbase. i remember playing fusion for the first time without knowing the popular opnion and i thought it was a good idea and it really is but the more you know new metroidvanias the more you think it was a "not so good decision" and they know now we have a real 2d metroid on the 3ds and they did not put this idea on the game.

[@heliodoro2104]

It’s the same with metroid prime tho because prime is so big with so many details it would be pretty hard to know where to exaclty go.

[@Jdudec367]

@@UmDevoto At least Fusion has arguably the best atmosphere of any metroid game from what i've seen.

[@UmDevoto]

@@Jdudec367 yes fusion is a good metroid for sure prob my fav but if its to be honest i dont think its the best metroid game not even top 3

[@tricky1800]

I found Hollow Knight the perfectly challenging and fun, always pushing me to my limit, while Axiom Verge just frustrated and bored me to no end. Maybe I'm playing it wrong.

[@shmarfle47]

tricky1800 You’re not alone and no you aren’t playing it wrong. I found Axiom very boring and found HK so much more fun. A large part being I loved the combat in HK while Axiom is literally shoot the thing to win.

[@tricky1800]

@@shmarfle47 okay cool cause I feel the exact same way. Thank you for the reply

[@dalgusmaximus4557]

I thought hollow knight was just way to damn monotonous for it's own good and axiom verge way too cryptic.

[@Kuu-n-koi2317]

@@dalgusmaximus4557 being monotonous is kinda intentional, cuz the kingdom you're travelling in is in ruin, it's dying cuz of the infection, most of the leaders have died, the world is almost dead

[@patricklewis9787]

Axiom Verge is on par with hollow knight IMO

[@wrosebrock]

THANK YOU for including ESA. Underrated gem.

[@TectonicImprov]

Matthewmatosis also made a video about ESA if you're interested

[@wrosebrock]

@@TectonicImprov thanks I'll check it out

[@daniellu1321]

@@TectonicImprov 2 years later but Matthewmatosis still remains my favorite game analyst ever: no one reaches that man in quality as far as I’m concerned.

[@skelecrine]

It's honestly insane to me that some people cannot realize that everyone has different tastes for games and different opinions on what they think a game can do better. Even more so, I believe it's commendable to be able to critically look at criticism of your favorite game, and recognize where there can be shortcomings for that game and subjective arguments for certain aspects of that game. Everything is in your own head too, as even if you strongly disagree with someone who doesn't like your favorite game, complaining about it and outlining every reason why they are wrong won't make them like it any better (shocking).

[@twincherries6698]

A whole lotta people in this section ought to read this lol

[@josejaviersantosperez9155]

Its funny seeing so many salty HK fanboys just being salty and ripping on the guy trying to defend the game while shitting on other games.

[@awakenedsoul2638]

@@josejaviersantosperez9155 True! Hollow Knight is an overrated PIECE OF SHITTY BULL CRAP! I admit I am playing the game now and I agree with Nerrel's review score giving it A SEVEN OUT OF TEN!

[@huccy7693]

I found hollow knight fun enough to spend like 120 hours over the course of a month in while Axiom Verge i couldn't play for more than 15 minutes without either getting bored, frustrated or having a headache. It's kinda crazy seeing the same things you complain about being praised in another, like the charms, color pallet, optional bosses, etc in Hollow Knight while some of the things you praise in Axiom I despised such as the abundance of red in the sections i played, the bosses and the weapons.

[@Alpha_beef]

Its pretty much entirely because he has a raging hard on for Super Metroid. Watch the reviews of HK and AV back to back and listen to every time he makes reference to Super Metroid. It becomes very clear that he isnt looking for a Metroidvania as much as hes just looking for a Metroid

[@enickma910]

I definitely got lots of headaches playing axiom verge but I pushed through them because the game is so good and also I have an unhealthy metroidvania addiction

[@benservey9295]

agreed. Hollow Knight was open enough that I could go anywhere and make meaningful progress. In Axiom Verge (and Super Metroid) I often found myself spending hours looking for the right hidden block to break to make progress. I also liked Hollow Knights power-ups better. I really don't need ANOTHER missile upgrade

[@hubblebublumbubwub5215]

I was thinking exactly the same thing. The bosses in axiom are particularly bad, it seems like the creators didn't want to program AI and make animations so most bosses just walked back and forth while shooting bullets. Hollow Knight is god tier, I don't get how it's even possible.

[@hundvd_7]

@@benservey9295 > I really don't need ANOTHER missile upgrade This is _by far_ my biggest problem with that game. And Nerrel mentioned it too, but then proceeds to brush it off... Wtf

[@thegrimreaper7]

I hate this game: 7/10. I thought I had already unsubbed from IGN.

[@Ismael-kc3ry]

It has a little something for everyone

[@fAKSDFKamsdf]

"It's boring, and kind of shitty, just a little bit. 7/10"

[@grankwastaken]

He explicitly said it was't a bad game...

[@Ismael-kc3ry]

Then he called it shitty. Oh well

[@togglebott7748]

Luis Chaves I mean there are things I know are good but I hate anyways

[@Lexiar23]

You know, I don’t want to blame it ALL on Nerrel, but absolutely nothing good has happened since he came out against Hollow Knight

[@emilytheimp]

I keep rewatching this video to get my opinion on Hollow Knight sanitychecked. Im glad Im not the only one who doesnt think its the best Metroidvania out there 😅 People keep making me think Im crazy for that

[@youngkappakhan]

I do that, but also like to come back here just to look at all the copium in the comments.

[@Oscargoo]

@@youngkappakhanlmao also come back here for both. Still a wonder he gave it a 7 with all his gripes

[@youngkappakhan]

@@Oscargoo he doesn't seem that negative to me, just honest and fair. people are too used to youtubers that walk on eggshells and only regurgitate safe opinions on what they like. i don't mind negative reviews of stuff i like as long as the criticism is constructive, makes sense & is well informed, but i guess when you live in an echo chamber that glazes the fuck out of a game and takes it super seriously even a really tepid opinion of it is enough to burst that bubble and disturb you.

[@alexoxo9008]

i agree and see where you are coming from with basically every point made in this video, and your sense of humor always gets to me. Thanks for making more of these videos, Nerrel! But i still love hollow knight you swine.

[@DweezyBreezey]

You know, when I first watched this video, I didn't really agree with your opinion on Hollow Knight, but the more I play it, the more I come to understand your criticisms, and even share a few. The game is great, I like it much more than you do, but I do feel as though it can get really tedious, and I do agree that it doesn't really reward you often enough or substantially enough. I've seen people in this comment section comparing it to the Souls games, but if we where to really compare the two, I think it would only serve to further show the flaws of HK, and how poorly thought out some elements are. It's also weird how people just default to the old "git gud" response, when difficulty isn't the issue, it's the fact that the tedious elements make the difficulty seem worse and the lack of reward makes the challenge feel pointless. I know some people enjoy exploring for the sake of it, or a hard boss for the sake of it, but I only like exploring when there is something to find, and unless I find the combat and/or encounter really engaging (which is not always the case when it comes to HK for me), a hard fight without something to show for it feels like a waste of time. I've put the game down many times despite enjoying it so much, and I could never quite put my finger on why, but after wanting to put the game on hold again today and rewatching this video, I think it's just because the game doesn't motivate me to continue. If it wasn't so well made and have such high highs, I probably would have outright dropped it.

[@_BBAGG_]

I love hollow knight but I agree with alot of what was said about it in this video, I can't imagine being so buthurt about Nerrel's opinion to dislike bomb this video

[@bbsugarsmurf19]

I love Hollow Knight but your points are very accurate and I hope some of these are addressed in Silksong, there were way too few benches and whenever I watch new players stream they are almost always lost as the game doesn't hint you to where you should be going or doing

[@THEM0J0MAN]

Seems like you didn't click with Hollow Knight at all, a shame but I was interested what you'd have to say since I though your motion control videos were spot on and some my favourite stuff on KZbin even though I only recently found your channel. But as others have said, what you've cited as negatives were all my favorite parts. Its unfortunate it doesn't seem like you understand why others liked the game. Though some who similarly bounced off it will be validated by your thoughts I think you kinda missed the point. This isn't a case of 'git gud' its a matter of taste it seems and your critique doesn't seem to acknowledge that. I think most of your problems with the game arose from seeing it as metroidvania, which is the conceit of the video I guess but it made you miss the unique strengths and experience of Hollow Knight, judging it on rigid criteria the game wasn't trying to meet. I'd say a stronger inspiration than metroid on the game was probably Dark Souls and it felt very natural to approach it as that kind of game. tbh metroidvania has never been a genre that has clicked with me, backtracking after a power up for those nooks and crannies now unlocked has always felt like the worst kind of artificial padding and bores me to no end, especially since no environment in one of these games enticed me like Hollow Knight's did. How different it was from an a typical or exemplar of the genre was probably why I and so many others loved it. What made your motion control videos great for me was that you approached the topic from all angles and created a comprehensive response to the hate of them, this missed the mark for me. I'm gonna waste my time and reply to myself with even more useless additional responses for further detail haha.

[@THEM0J0MAN]

Addressing some individual points~ The "boring" environments. (this one actually annoyed me a bit) I thought the visuals were varied and many locations enchanted me, look at screens of the game and its hard to disagree. Fog Canyon vs The Coliseum vs The City of Tears It's funny how you dissed them being the same color like that's all you focused on (even though the colors actually are varied) and ignored areas with completely different themes like forests, caves, lakes and a goddamn city. I enjoy good criticism on things I like but this point really felt disingenuous to me and would mislead potential new players away with the false info. However as I kept playing some areas did start to feel a little samey to me as well but for a different reason, there are no sloped surfaces, at all, everything is made of 90' blocks and so the level layouts start to blur together. Probably a trade off to get the game out as a small studio or maybe to keep the mechanics rock solid as they might of behaved strangely on slopes. This is probably the largest failing I have with the game but doesn't detract too much on a first time through. Another point you made is being frustrated that there is no set path, which again, was one of my favorite parts. I enjoy a good linear experience as much as the next person but I crave open ended ones more when I feel they deliver on that promise. Stumbling around hollow knight of my own accord was amazing, like I was exploring and discovering these locations for myself and not being led by the nose, this greatly enhanced my immersion and I wouldn't have had it any other way. Charms felt like a smooth transformation of the rpg systems like equipment and rings in other games to fit to this new mold. Although I felt some charms should of been permanent, the tradeoffs presented in creating my 'loadout' was interesting for me, and a few times I swapped my set out to handle a specific challenge, sometimes just to mess around. The combination of permanent power ups and these charms was a really nice balance for me and I was always curious what a new charm might do and how i'd use it. The last point is there being insufficient rewards. This one is the hardest to address as it simply wasn't an issue at all for me and most that like the game. We went to a new area to see the new area, we fought all the bosses cause we liked to fight bosses. As others have said this is that intrinsically vs extrinsically motivated dichotomy. I was always happy getting new stuff but beating a challenge was satisfying enough for me. I wrote all this because the hollow knight part of the video didn't meet the same standard you set with the rest of your content I've seen. That part just felt like you were mainly bitching rather the being evenhanded in your approach and diverting occasionally for comedy. Intermission at the end was amazing though haha.

[@JohannesEckhoff]

I'm guessing you're not that familiar with Dark Souls. In that game, when you kill a boss, you get souls (which are always useful) and sometimes important and useful items as well. You get stronger and stronger as the game goes on.The environments are incredibly distinct with their own color palettes, assets and geometry, and you're consistently rewarded for exploring. All of this sounds like a metroidvania to me. It doesn't sound so much like Hollow Knight.

[@matheusrodrigues7921]

@@JohannesEckhoff he probably says it's more like dark souls because of the atmosphere and the way the story is told and also whenever you kill a boss in hollow knight you always get rewarded, be it a pale ore, a charm, mask fragment, soul vessel or whatever. And the areas in hollow knight are also very varied areas like he also said.

[@THEM0J0MAN]

@@JohannesEckhoff I've played a decent amount of Souls and its one of my favorite games. Although there are a lot more interesting items, once you're mostly set up souls, boss souls and others items won't really do too much for you as your character is already built. I'd definitely agree that Dark Souls has even more varied levels and is a big reason I love the game so much, also reason Nioh didn't do it for me. The comparison was more to do with the design philosophy, and little bit the atmosphere. Dark Souls is as challenging as it is so you'll feel accomplished when you overcome it, everything else is built around that. Hollow Knight is most likely aiming for the same thing and you cant argue that basically benches=bonfires and shadows=bloodstains.

[@LunamrathP]

@@JohannesEckhoff That sounds exactly like Hollow Knight though.

[@lhfirex]

I'm glad Axiom Verge got the praise it did, because damn is that game awesome. And I agree with the criticisms of it too. I have never felt motivated to get 100% in it, though, and that's partially because 100% maps is extremely stupid in a few areas, and I don't feel motivated to go for 100% items after getting a couple of the hidden guns that are way more powerful than the normal ones you find.

[@Grim_Pinata]

Finally someone who isn't afraid to criticise Hollow Knight. I feel like everyone overlooks all the weird missteps the game makes in basic metroidvania structure and it's incredibly bland level design and lore (which is basically just discount Dark Souls but they made everyone a bug, don't @ me) because it's art style is cute and it's music is grand, and sure enough, take a look at any Hollow Knight community page other than the Steam forums and you'll find practically no actual gameplay discussion. Look at the Reddit page; literally every post is nothing but fanart, and in a genre that's known for inciting some of the most heated discussions about game design as the metroidvania, that's pretty striking.

[@aizunaizu6755]

I think it's funny how people got mad about the Hollow Knight segment when he still gave it a 7/10, which isn't a bad score, and he still found a lot of things he liked before talking about the things he didn't

[@gmanpizza8181]

Even when there’s a game I like, I appreciate an honest review like this. Great indie games like Hollow Knight and Celeste are often subjected to way too much circlejerking, and any discussion about their flaws is often drowned out. Because while I really like Hollow Knight, it for sure has flaws.

[@gu3z185]

@@gmanpizza8181 It's just that the flaws that he pointed out aren't really flaws that many other people have with the game. He complains about areas being reskins of each other with a different color palate, boss runbacks that can be entirely skipped with the teleport, and he didn't get the true ending or fight the Radiance or NKG considering that he never understood the significance of essence even though the Seer literally says "Come back here once you have 1800 essence," and then unlocks the rest of the game via really fun platforming. I love Nerrel and I love Metroid, but he's judging the game based on a franchise that was only a secondary inspiration.

[@gmanpizza8181]

@@gu3z185 I still think many of his complaints are true. For example, the lack of rewards throughout the game is a very salient criticism. When I first beat NKG after dozens of attempts, I was anticipating something great. A closure to the ritual, some lore about the heart, a cutscene, a charm, and some dialogue; but instead, I was greeted with...nothing. Literally nothing (I don’t count a tiny DPS upgrade to the Grimmchild as a “reward”). As soon as you beat him, you’re booted out and Grimm and his tent just vanish. While I understand crypticness is a big part of Hollow Knight, it’s just not good game design to reward literally nothing for defeating an extremely powerful boss that could take an average player hours to beat. Even when there are rewards for beating bosses or finding new areas, like Nerrel says, most of the time they are pretty bad. Rancid Eggs are memetically useless, most charms you’ll never use b/c of how stringent the system is plus how outclassed most charms are, and the rest is usually just money. Hollow Knight relies too heavily on having players beat bosses just for the sake of beating bosses, which isn’t a common mindset. The boss walking distance is egregious in my opinion. You mention the Dreamgate teleportation, but that’s not a valid excuse. The Dreamgate is unlocked so late that it is not useful for players just wanting to beat the game - most bosses players will fight after it are Dream bosses anyway, which renders it useless in those scenarios. In cases like these, Hollow Knight straddles the line from being difficult to just punishing. I think the Watcher Knight epitomizes the problems I have with Hollow Knight. Lurien is by far the closest of the Dreamers when they are marked on your map, so naturally you’d head to it first. However, it is brutally difficult and borderline unfair without the Shade Cloak, even though an average player would have no indication that something like that even exists yet. It’s an example of Hollow Knight’s common failure in guiding players; in this case, they decided to put that hardest Dreamer closest to the player, and decided not to put any ability gates on it, while the far easier Monomon requires the Shade Cloak. That’s not even it with the Watcher Knights. The walk to the boss from the nearest bench is nearly a minute long, which will soon be burned into your memory from how much you die to it. It’s the most egregious case of boss-bench distance I can think of. My final issue with them relates to Hollow Knight’s “secrets”. Too much important stuff is flat-out way too hidden, and I guarantee most players needed a guide for it. For example, to start the Grimm Troupe DLC at all, you need to find a random-ass breakable wall on the Howling Cliffs. This is ridiculously hidden for something that leads to two boss fights, a charm, a charm notch, and a way to fix the Fragile charms. Back to the Watcher Knights - the way to make the battle far simpler is the chandelier trick, located in a hidden area. There’s hardly any indication, but there it is. Hollow Knight feels like “use a guide, or get fucked” too much of the time.

[@dalgusmaximus4557]

@@gu3z185 It definitely wasn't secondary inspiration. The world design takes heavy emphasis on metroids long corridors connecting the different levels of the map.

[@gu3z185]

@@gmanpizza8181 The Watcher Knights chandelier trick is a perfect example of "use a guide for easy mode." This is how you do difficulty settings correctly. It reminds me of Dark Souls 1, where if you know how to shoot off the dragons tail, then you get a ridiculously OP weapon. I loved NKG and the fact that I didn't even remember getting nothing after beating him is a testament to how rewarding the boss fights are. Also, you can get dream gate without fighting any dreamers, if I'm not mistaken. It also rewards you for doing optional side bosses, which is good. You say that not expecting a reward after a difficult boss is an uncommon view, but I disagree. The thing that kept me playing was the boss fights, as soon as I beat one, I was hyped for the next. There are enough people who love the game to where I think this is the most common view of the gameplay loop. Also Watcher Knights is not unfair without a Shade Cloak, it's easy to just Pogo off of them. I don't think I've ever actually fought them trying to dash through them. The slam move does help though.

[@patricklewis9787]

I must say that while you ripped hard on my favorite game, hollow knight, i do encourage that because there is always room for improvement. I actually subbed to you bc my brother told me about this video and knows i love hollow knight. Glad you had the guts

[@riceawakes5489]

Good critism is from people who never played that genre of game

[@Stagmuffins]

Unfortunately I feel like the things he would change would just make the game soulless. I used to think that Super Metroid was as good as the genre would get but after HK I'd say that SM isn't even good anymore.

[@patricklewis9787]

@@Stagmuffins i still love SM

[@Convicted_Melon]

I don't think if that's necessarily accurate though. HK can improve in some areas but most of what he mentioned were things the game was specifically going for. It almost sounds like he wants it to be a different kind of game rather than critiquing its actual flaws.

[@des4929]

@@Stagmuffins SM is still great it's just not the best

[@ellocojoncrazy3270]

Dude, I agree with literally everything you say about Hollow Knight, I think it is a game with very solid mechanics and with a great philosophy of "the one who progresses is you" but at the same time I don't feel that it works like a Metroidvania, The exploration is very punishing, and it rewards you very little, and in general it is very annoying to navigate the game, it was stressful to go back to an old area and that STILL the area can continue to kick my butt, I understand that it is simply a matter of getting good, but if I have to have cat reflexes for every moment in the game on such a massive map and with backtracking, I find it very tiring, such a difficulty does not work in an exploration game it becomes annoying And the game is constantly slowing you down with the stupid ghost mechanic.

[@rafaelbarbosa9037]

People saying it's just like a Souls game don't understand how masterfully designed Dark Souls is. When you return to old areas, you ARE strong, it's not just skill because of levels and equipment so you get this constant loop of hardship at first and then the feeling of being strong upon returning. Also the areas actually look interesting and diverse

[@ellocojoncrazy3270]

@@rafaelbarbosa9037 That philosophy works better in Dark Souls because honestly it is a much more linear and direct game, but, at least for me, it does not work in a Metroidvania for the reasons I already said. A game so massive that it requires a lot of backtracking and exploration is fucking annoying, getting from one point to another can turn into wasting like 40 minutes trying to get my fucking money back, oh just try to get out of a zone. oh spend a lot of time in a very difficult place only to stumble upon something that I still can't do.

[@rafaelbarbosa9037]

Yeah, in Dark Souls you usually dont have to return to older areas too often. You explore a single area until the boss and then most likely there will be a shortcut leading to the next

[@JacobPDeIiNoNi]

I mean, essentially what you're saying is that challenging games with open ended exploration and backtracking (i.e. challenging metroidvanias that don't give you guidance like metroid dread or ori do) don't work. And while I understand what you're saying, I think the idea that sort of structure doesn't work is specific to the type of player you and Nerrel are. If that game design was inherently flawed, it wouldn't be beloved by so many people. It's just that unique combination of being brutally difficult while also confusing to navigate that, while many people enjoy it, others don't. And I'm not saying this like it's a bad thing you and Nerrel don't enjoy the structure. I love hollow knight, but there are some people who I think would never in a million years enjoy the game, which is why having negative reviews like yours is important so that players with similar tastes in gameplay experience can understand that hollow knight definitely isn't the game for them. Which is also why I appreciate that you went in depth on the game design reasons of WHY you don't like it, because I'd imagine it'll be helpful for people who would otherwise try out the game, hate it, and be another one of those "waste of 20 dollars" comments.

[@rafaelbarbosa9037]

Don't care bro 👍🏻

[@JaquesEdrillavo]

Boi, thank you for your review of Hollow Knight. I thought I was alone on this. I kept falling asleep while playing and felt no shame in stopping playing it alltogether.

[@dogu1601]

Same with me. I’ve played so many metroidvanias and this is the only one that didn’t click with me at all.

[@dogu1601]

@@thrawn4388 Nope. Might check it out on the eShop though, I like short games. The metroidvanias I’ve played are castlevanias and metroids, so basically the traditional ones that define the genre. I guess Dead Cells can count as well, but I didn’t like it too much.

[@Jamandabop]

I think the reason I love Hollow Knight so much is because it was my first metroidvania, so I went in without any preconceived notions about how it needed to work. (Also, I like how Joseph Anderson and Nerrel described falling into Deepest with opposite quality.)

[@tobyk5091]

Just shows that one of them is crazy and the other.... is crazy too

[@feyt8009]

The reason I hate Hollow Knight so much is because it was my first metroidvania as well, funnily enough.

[@tobyk5091]

@@feyt8009 as much as I'd like to say bad taste, I would be stupid first of all, but more importantly I can totally see where you are coming from especially in the case of metroidvanias. That genre of game is definitely not meant to appeal to everyone which I guess just makes it more special for the people who do like it. I will say, if you only got to the first one or two areas or you gave up on a boss, then I highly recommend you go back and give Hollow Knight another shot. It took a lot of patience before I began to really love it

[@feyt8009]

@@tobyk5091 I did play it all the way through and unfortunately hated it all throughout. I did cheat my way through some bosses as I couldn't stand the backtracking. I got the bad ending too but I can't be arsed to go back to it and get the good one. There's really nothing that makes me want to go back to it so yeah, probably the genre itself and how the game was built, because difficulty was not the issue, case in point, I'm relaying through Abe's Oddysee which I never finished as a kid, I'm trying to do the perfect run and boi, the secret areas, even the first one, are very hard and unforgiving. The music of Hollow Knight is great though.

[@kotzer71]

well hollowknight is one of the best one's

[@savoz894]

I never had any of those issues you mentioned in Ori and the blind forest, I understood the rules pretty clearly and the controls were really precise and enjoyable. Yeah its true, it needs some practice but for me it didn't take too long to master the controls and you should've seen me play it. When you travel the world flawlessly without making any mistakes that alone is really enjoyable and satisfactory. For me Ori is the best game in the Metroid genre.

[@RelyeaGaming]

Ori won in atmosphere but lost on power ups and exploration as it was pretty linear.... based on your rules, hollow Knight was better

[@gumgrapes]

There's a lot to love about this video, and it all deserves appreciation, but I just want to say that the football segment at the end was funny as hell 😭

[@mikemtz7536]

That post game commentary gag at the end was perfect. Thank you for making my day.

[@_WhiteMage]

Using travel hacks on Hollow Knight, and I'm still seeing the extremely slow progression. Even warping between bonfires and saving before bosses, I'm 8 hours in with my only movement abilities being the dash and wall climb. My max health and damage are both exactly what they were _at the start of the game,_ which just shows no respect for the player's time at all. I'd have more than beaten Super Metroid in its entirety by now. It doesn't weave every little marginal health/damage upgrade and ability with laborious hours of exploration between them. Even Dark Souls, which it's trying to imitate in a number of ways, gives you immediate feelings of progression because within minutes of starting it up you're finding different equipment, leveling your character, and upgrading weapons you like. If it left you as weak as you started by the _eight hour mark_ people would rightly call it a slog to play.

[@chuganoga1908]

Lololol oh boy I wasn’t expecting that outro lolol I almost got in a car accident laughing so hard

[@mayoman3781]

LOL

[@Hussain_Zaki]

Hollow Knight is my favourite game of all time and here are the reasons : I'm too lazy to write anything, Watch mossbag

[@josiahball7799]

This is the best comment in this entire section

[@oliverparker425]

@@josiahball7799 how? its kind of lazy

[@carriehellbound1535]

"all the areas have the same blue-black color scheme" . . . Me: *points at the Hive and White Palace*

[@Drakenwild]

Even Kingdom's Edge, which he gave as an example of this, is grey and white, not blue-black.

[@carriehellbound1535]

@@Drakenwild exactly!

[@brummwiththedrip5397]

And greenpath and queens gardens and crystal peak and fog canyon

[@carriehellbound1535]

@@brummwiththedrip5397 yup!

[@izzyosborn637]

Both those areas are secret tho.

[@TheChazzyC]

Had the same opinion about hollow knight

[@SloveLDK]

And that opinion was wrong

[@infamoussoul2346]

same

[@ukkukuku]

@@SloveLDK ok hk fanboy

[@Maceyoshiman]

Such a quality channel. Keep doing what you're doing man. Your analyses are fascinating

[@thomaswolf1143]

As someone who loves the shit out of hollow knight, I am used to an endless stream of affirming opinions and statements. Your review was refreshing, honest, and showed me a perspective I wasn't aware of, especially as someone from a community who loves difficulty and slow paced challenge-games.

[@marmo1596]

Finally, a negative opinion about hollow knight. I thought I was the only person who didn't enjoy the game. Everyone hypes it up so much and I went in with low expectations but was still disappointed. Glad the people who like it can enjoy it, but fuck are a lot of people blind to it's flaws.

[@AMERICANSQVIDIOT]

god im SO glad ive finally found someone who shares my opinion on the way hollow knight does progression. I stopped playing after getting trapped in deepnest and kept dying miles away from the last bench, and even further from where it turned out i needed to go, so every time i got my money back i would die somewhere on the way back to the bench so i'd have to go all the way back down to grab my stuff and then try to get back to the bench so i could finally go in the right direction i really dont like the death system in this game for that reason, it brings exploration to a grinding halt

[@dustin3958]

Agreed!

[@Kaledarkwind6151]

I totally agree man, it was that having to run back to my ghost all the time and the bank bitch stealing over 10k from me that caused me to rage quit.

[@AMERICANSQVIDIOT]

honestly!! it felt like they wanted to do the dark souls thing but didn't think about how all it really did was punish exploration in a game that's just too open to begin with

[@FinalDragoon]

I cannot stress this enough, Axiom Verge is one of the best metroidvanias in the last decade.

[@1rez378]

I had nearly the same impressions for these games. My scores would be completely different though. ESA had some more minor problems like locking you in an area with a somewhat difficult boss, but you couldn't backtrack to prepare for it with more upgrades.

[@joshs2235]

The critique within the critique at 20:10 was hilarious, I love it when reviewers anticipate the hate they'll get and then go the route of self-deprecating humor rather than defense mode. It is disarming to the haters and it SUPER EFFECTIVE! Well done.

[@TheEpicPancake]

Yeah, definitely one of the more enjoyable parts even if it was a short ending screen.

[@des4929]

I mean he was right he did make a mistake reviewing hollow knight first he revealed his terrible takes and nitpicking

[@joshs2235]

@@des4929 😂

[@18skeltor]

@@des4929 Cope more. TIL if you don't enjoy something you're not entitled to have an opinion on it!

[@des4929]

@@18skeltor my good sir I have done everything in the game except the hardest thing (P5 for those who know) I haven't experienced any of the issues described especially not the broken benches he says that they are frequent but there are under 10 and for the longest time I thought that there was only one and that one is in a stag station which is really just a slight inconvenience and another thing benches are usually close to bosses except for some fringe exceptions like hive knight and soul master which is the most egregious sadly because it's the one required boss that has this issue

[@VicViper]

Coming back here after finishing Hollow Knight and... I'll preface by saying that I finished my 1st playthrough at 75% in 18h30, and my death counter barely reached the double digits (without counting dream bosses, with them I was maybe at 20) And holy shit, was the last third of those 18h30 not fun. I learned the hard way that the game is more annoying than it is actually difficult. The map is just naturally confusing, way too big, with relatively samey visuals, it just isn't memorable enough to be absorbed naturally in one playthrough (I had less difficulty learning it in freaking Circle of the Moon), the enemy design gets insufferable at times (especially when you just wanna move along), and there are way too many hidden secrets, both ranging from seemingly inconsequential to vital. All of those factors made backtracking a huge chore, and there's naturally a lot of backtracking in this game. Way too much of it. Bottomline: High quality lore, presentation and gameplay, with super fun bosses. A lot of passion clearly went into this project. I got the normal ending, and never want to play it again. It's too bloated for its own good, and it eventually brutally kills the fun of exploration. At the end, I was just apathetic towards the whole thing. Now I get why Metroidvanias rarely bother to be +10 hours long. I was skeptical of the review before, seeing its reception, but now I totally understand it (though there are a few nitpicks and mistakes), and I didn't die even half as much as Nerrel did. Hell, I might have died less overall in my whole playthrough than you "Git Good" goofballs did on three separate bosses. It was a solid 7/10 to 8/10 the first 12 hours, and the rest was such a mediocre experience I'm questioning if those first 12 hours were actually fun.

[@SenhorPudimDanilo]

bro, the storytelling of hollow knight it's part of the rewards. Piercing the mistery of what happened in hollownest it's one of the better parts of the game.

[@fluffy_tail4365]

yeah, to me it sounded like he wasn't engrossed by the world, which gives context to the review pretty much

[@deepspace6nine]

@@fluffy_tail4365 I definitely agree that the story, and storytelling, were amazing for Hollow Knight, however, I was both incredibly interested in the story and aspects of the gameplay, while also feeling it was a bit of a chore. Like I kept having to force myself to go back to it because I wasn't into the actual gameplay so much, other than things like the boss fights (and I am definitely more into the exploration part of metroidvanias, but that wasn't really very compelling to me personally here).

[@fluffy_tail4365]

@@deepspace6nine Oh I also have my gripes with some aspect of HK, some similar to Nerrel (lack of movement options sometimes and the aesthetics can be a bit dull sometimes), but never to the point where I had to force myself to play or to give it anything below a 9, because I was engrossed with it. And luckly silksong seems to be on the path to fix my main gripes :)

[@jonathanstark9147]

While you didn't like Hollow Knight much I do appreciate you mentioning how solid the controls are. For a game that difficult in which I died hundreds of times I don't think I ever died because of controls. I just wasn't good enough, or fast enough, or paying enough attention. For me, that kept the game from becoming frustrating and while I took long breaks from it several times, I never had much trouble picking it back up again. Controls are simple, forgiving, and responsive. Knowing where to go next, on the other hand, was an undeniable pain. As much as I like environmental storytelling and hate quest markers, having a journal of tasks or little mysteries to follow up on would have been priceless. I often didn't know where I was going or what I was doing and stumbled through progressing the story and scenarios until suddenly I was at the end and... okay, I guess. I would have felt more invested if I had a better idea of what was meant to be a plot mystery and what was just set dressing. I honestly have the same problem in Dark Souls and Bloodborne and Sekiro. Beaten most of those games, but it always feels like I just stumble on the ending without knowing why. I think that level of "not gonna tell you where to go or why" worked well in Super Metroid because it is, ultimately, a game that's very beatable in under 10 hours, even if you don't know what the heck you are doing. Whereas Hollow Knight probably took me 50 hours. It's a much bigger game than Super Metroid and there is a lot more to keep straight in my head. Last note: I'm a little sad you didn't mention the quality of the music because man it is the most evocative soundtrack I've heard in years, maybe going back to Super Metroid even.

[@LEXICON-DEVIL]

19:05 That head is totally inspired by Junji Itos "Slug girl" comic story.

[@ddaramane]

Aight. Lost me with the Hollow Knight critique, but you brought it right back at the end with the hilarious announcers indicating that you'd lose me with the Hollow Knight critique. This was killer. Have a like and a sub and hit us with part 2!

[@Hysteria98]

Let's be real, he's comparing Hollow Knight here as a METROIDVANIA. The clue is in the title, and literally every point he covers. HK is a mix of MV and Dark Souls, no? So obviously, it's going to fall in some regard. He doesn't like it as a MetroidVania, which is what many people are just refusing to accept, much less babies don't like that the general consensus opinion is shattered by one guy, god forbid.

[@augustofretes]

I pretty much defeated the mantis as soon as they become accessible, and I also fell into deepnest unprepared. Here's the difference: for me that was the most engaging gaming experience I had that year. However, I think you're onto something. I've recommended hollow knight to plenty of friends, and many drop it because they can't figure out where to go, or just keep dying and dying. So I'm guessing HK is very close to flawless for people looking for a very specific type of experience.

[@gaben9224]

I think that's the best way to put it. I'm one of those people who got confused and frustrated and dropped it early on, and the people in this comment section are making some aspects of the game sound like they very obviously contradict what Nerrel said in his video. But most of what they mentioned would just very reasonably go over a lot of people's heads, like Nerrel and I. There are just some things you only understand if you tackle the game a certain way and things you only understand if you truly explore everything the game has to offer. If you look at the game a certain way and some things just click in your mind, and you're down with the challenges and mechanics the game gives you, you'll have an amazing time. At least, that's what I felt was going on when I dropped it and had things explained to me.

[@SomeGuy-so3kk]

Why do people care about what somebody on the internet says about their favorite game? This guy never insulted the people who enjoyed this game with a comment like "I can't understand why anyone likes this shit". He simply explained the reasons why he didn't like a game in a calm and collected manner while giving credit to the work put into the game. It makes sense to criticize his reasons for disliking the game but there is no reason to be angry about it.

[@TechBlade9000]

It's when they start getting harrased by randos who see they don't share the opinion of internet person X so people like stopping it at the source

[@comprehendsirlgarbagedispo1495]

based nerrel dunking on hollow knight and praising esa

[@kenzovargas241]

"I'm not saying Hollow knight is bad" Few seconds later "Kinda shit experience"

[@This-Was-Sparta]

Your point? You can recognize something as being solidly put together while still thinking it was a bad experience.

[@panuru9175]

@@This-Was-Sparta no a bad experience, well in gameplay yes but overall WITH THE STORY (i cant believe that nerrel not metion that)is memorable

[@gu3z185]

@@This-Was-Sparta If you're judging a game, you aren't judging it's pieces but the combined experience that it provides you. If someone made the scariest game ever with the most sad backstory ever conceived, but the game itself is kind of shit to actually play, then I would say that it fails as a game.

[@remembertotakeshowerspleas355]

@@panuru9175 Not everybody cares about the story. I could barely tell what was going on in that game even on my second playthrough where I was going for a completionist run.

[@CountOfMonteCristo_]

he can be very sarcastic if you couldn't tell, so put your fanboying aside for one minute and actually listen to unique opinions that aren't just circle jerking how much of a """""masterpiece"""""" the game is.

[@thegameneededme5]

It’s clear we just want very different things from a Metroidvania. With Hollow Knight, I didn’t find it a waste of time if my exploration wasn’t rewarded with a tangible upgrade. My reward was discovering more about that world and feeling like I’d conquered another small part of it. The difficulty and boss fights around every corner made it all the more rewarding when you actually do come across tangible upgrades. I think starting each area without a map is a brilliant way for them to give you time to orient yourself with the new area and start making a mental map before being given one by the game itself. It was far more rewarding for me to remember how to navigate an area without checking the map to see what general direction to head in. I agree with you about the shade mechanic. I’d even be fine with just losing some Geo when you died but capping your Soul led to a nasty feedback loop of struggling in an area making it even harder to succeed. I can understand where you’re coming from with your complaints, I just got so much more out of my time with it. It’s a game that’s stuck with me and one that, like Super Metroid, I’ll be going back to from time to time for years to come.

[@Akalos1]

Yeah exactly. Most of the game is the player marvelling 'what happened here?' And then when you finally piece it together 'how can I right this ancient wrong?!' And then with more lore 'wait, did I do the right thing?!' And with more lore 'ah, the secret ending I earned was bitter sweet, but it had to be done'

[@marcheharvey2301]

You guys love LoRes too much it clouded your decision on what's a good and bad level design is.

[@squidgames5218]

@@marcheharvey2301 If you mean placement from boss death then yes you would be right but bad level design? The world is designed beautifully and in such a way that make the abilities you gain feel fun to use and scale with

[@legrandliseurtri7495]

@@marcheharvey2301 What? Lore is rarely the only reward for doing something in HK. In fact, I can't think of that happening in situation besides the endgame(path of pain, godhome), where it makes a lot of sense to not give a new charm or whatever.

[@vintheguy]

I mean you may not also like the lore or premise but think the game looks cool

[@LosN209]

The intermission is gold.

[@phobosromulus]

I'd love to hear your thoughts on Blasphemous!

[@byel2844]

dude the guy got salty playing hollow knight do you think he can get past blasphemous tutorial boss?

[@GhostOfBilly]

@@byel2844 I honestly found Blasphemous a step down from HK in terms of combat. Sure the combat had more actual mechanics but HK's was more difficult and rewarding requiring the player to find more creative solutions to boss or mob attacks than parry and kill. Blasphemous was still great, challenging enough with a decent variety and a real breath of fresh air of an aesthetic.

[@user-le8ge3nw6x]

@@byel2844 ha, blasphemous aka the worst metroidvania games. Shitty leveldesign with no intresting ideas, half of items is just lore. All traversal items are boring

[@sloplord6004]

@@user-le8ge3nw6x wow a dystopian spanish mythology-based linear metriodvania with creative but challenging enemies and bosses yeah that sure sounds boring.

[@user-le8ge3nw6x]

@@sloplord6004 and very boring in traversal items. And that thing with items just for lore is absolute bullshit. There are plenty of other problems, but I herd that DLC fixed them so maybe one day I'll play it again

[@joshuaherberger4472]

It’s really interesting to see how you feel about Hollow Knight. I’ve seen other reviewers praise it for being a 2D Dark Souls because that’s what they’re looking for, while when viewing it as a Metroidvania it falls short. Both are interesting viewpoints.

[@CJojo_13_]

FaZe Rudolph not really. Hollow Knight only has a few Soulsborne elements, while primarily being a metroidvania that is actually a lot less linear than most.

[@RicochetForce]

@Minh Nguyễn Correct, Mark Brown's video on HK was far more in-depth and clearly tracked (via his graphs) why HK clicks so goddamn well as a Metroidvania despite all the Souls-like trappings. That was an incredibly informative video, while Nerrel's was more a poorly informed rant. How on Earth does an extra 5 missiles or more bombs in Metroid have more meaning that a damn charm that changes up how you play?

[@Kirzerk]

@@sordid1740 The game gives you more charm notches the further you progress, allowing you to equip up to six at a time. Not only that, but you can try to put on an extra charm when there is no room for that charm to become "Overcharmed," which allows you to equip one more at the cost of taking double damage. Also, yes, the charms do change the way you play. Want to be a Summoner with an army of minions? There are multiple charms for that (and they stack.) Want to be able to fire a ballistic missile, or even a shotgun-type blast? Soul-boosting charms and the fluke charm got you covered. Want to be a survivalist? Grubsong + Hiveblood. Want to be a nigh impervious snail with an AOE attack? Snail charm + bauldur shell + mushroom charm. Want to be able to fire swordlasers? There's a charm for that. I could go on, there's so much shit you can do with the charms in Hollow Knight. Did you even play the game?

[@Kirzerk]

@@sordid1740 lemme tell you right now: 30 hours is faaaar from enough. It takes at least 70 to complete just the base game. You were barely halfway in playtime. Not finding those charms wasnt the games fault, it was your failure to commit. In my opinion, the open-ended nature of the game never made it tedious, it made it fun, and I found the difficulty to be hard but fair. If I'm being honest though, I found the same problem as you my first time around. I played for a few hours, gave up. One day I was bored and came back, decided to commit. 150 in-game hours later, I was firm in my belief that it was one of the best games ever crafted by humanity. It has a rich lore, exciting bosses, enchanting music, and such nonlinear cohesive design that I was honestly dumbfounded. The big problem with hollow knight is its slow-ass beginning. But once you get the mothwing cloak and mantis claw the ENTIRE game just fucking explodes with content. You might want to give it another chance later on.

[@Kirzerk]

@@sordid1740 I went into hollow knight blind, and completed it to 107% blind. If I can do that, then anybody can. If you cant, then that's maybe a problem of your own, not the games. If you spent some 30 hours floundering around and getting nowhere, then that's a matter of your own skill. At 30 hours I was well into my way to the Abyss area already deep into the game. In the end, it's a matter of gitting gud. (Cliche, I know, but there's a reason that phrase sticks around to this day)

[@valeriegough7423]

I've never been able to put my finger on why I can't get into Hollow knight, but but after seeing this I basically agree with most of your criticisms, thanks.

[@des4929]

I've seen this comment 5 times Already I feel like it's bots at this point

[@Jamandabop]

I find it interesting that you didn't like how a lot of the optional bosses didn't reward you enough. For me, the bosses were the reward for exploration themselves. I was intrinsically motivated, because I love slamming my head into a wall against a fight until I beat it as long as it's fair and interesting.