MHMD [15] Ben of Tuleda suggests Muhammad lived 500 years later!

We have been tracing all of the succession of Muhammads which existed from the time of the Ugarites in 1400 BC, right up to the 7th and 8th centuries. But now we look even further, into the 12th and 13th centuries to discover this title still being used in that same area of the world.
Benjamin of Tuleda, from Spain, was a great Jewish traveler between the years 1165-1173 AD.
He traveled around the peninsula of Arabia, even up the Red Sea, passing all of the known towns and cities and writing about them.
Curiously, while traveling through the Red Sea, he never stopped nor mentioned the city of Mecca, which by the 12th century should have been at the center of the world, according to what Muslims tell us. Yet, he didn't seem to know about it.
Nonetheless, he continued all around the Arab world, including Syria, Iraq and Jordan, and went throughout the Mediterranean world as well.
When he visited Baghdad, he met the Caliph Al-Abbasi, who not only knew all about Israel, but knew how to read and speak Hebrew as well, and befriended him.
This strong relationship with the Jews and with Israel goes against everything we know about Islam and the Jews from within the Islamic Traditions.
Benjamin mentions that Al-Abbasi was regarded by the men of Islam as "Mohammed", and when they came to Baghdad to do the Haj, they kissed his robe, believing that he was Allah's holy presence on earth, much like the earlier Jewish Exilarchs.
So, it seemed that in the 12th century, this caliph, Al-Abbasi, was the focus of their pilgrimage, and was their "Mohammed".
He mentioned that the Jews and the "Mohammedans" (notice that he doesn't use the word "Muslims" here) were to pay allegiance to the Caliph Al-Abbasi, or they would receive 100 lashes.
At this time the Jewish Exilarch, Ali, was the Vice-regent (the administrative deputy) to the Caliph Al-Abbasi, who came out once a year as Mohammad.
Consequently, the vice-regent Ali, who ruled all year long, actually had more power than Mohammed the caliph, since he ruled only for one day.
This relationship between Ali and Mohammed, it seems, continued right up until the Mongols came and conquered that whole area of Iraq and Syria in 1219-1221, and usurped their power.
So, the major question we need to ask is when then did Islam as we know it really begin? Did it begin with the Abbasids after the 8th century, as we have assumed up to now, or did it begin much later, sometime after the 12th century, or even as late as the Ottoman dynasty, and then redacted back to the 7th century?
You decide....
© Pfander Centre for Apologetics & Polemics - US, 2024
(105,300) Music: 'Country Girl' by aleksound, from filmmusic-io

[@GizmoFromPizmo]

The three phases of Islam: 1) Nabatean (proto-Islam) 2) Abbasid (formal Islam) 3) Ottoman (modern Islam) We might one day add Saudi-Arabian Islam too, since it was the Saudi-Arabians who fixed the ever drifting Quran to the Hafs version in 1984.

[@OAParis]

I think the final fixing was done with the Cairo 1924 edition.

[@JesusSwineWhoreMarySon]

Even Jesus Swine 🐷 ✝️ who di3d like a dog 🐕 on cross can't make that happen 😂😂😂

[@doyouknoworjustbelieve6694]

I’m an atheist Arab and I can tell yooooo, yuuuu know nothing about the history of Islam.

[@GizmoFromPizmo]

@@doyouknoworjustbelieve6694 - Turns out that nobody knows the history of Islam because it keeps changing. The Quran goes through revision after revision and each new revision requires the destruction of all previous versions. It's hard to piece together the evolution of such a religion. Christianity has a pretty solid basis in history as the manuscripts documenting it go back to very early on. Quotations of the original writings of the apostles go back to the early second century. By contrast, no early Quranic documents exist. They've all been deliberately destroyed by people who needed to cover their tracks.

[@GizmoFromPizmo]

@@doyouknoworjustbelieve6694 - Nobody really knows the evolution of Islam. The Quran keeps changing.

[@Louis.R]

Everything must have changed when the Mongols under Tamerlane destroyed everything. Afterwards, what we now know as Islam must've risen from the ashes, by piecing these things back together.

[@raedaily9854]

I don't think that it was so much that the Mongols destroyed everything. Perhaps they destroyed some history records in the process. But when they set up their own administration (after toppling whatever was there), they actually gave preference to Muslims. The order of governmental bias was Mongols first (who were relatively few in number) and Muslims second. It seems likely that the Mongols destroyed the power of the Jews in exile, if the above story is true. I always thought that Islam was an unlikely religion for the Mongols to be so enamored of. They certainly put their own spin on it. But perhaps they favored it because it was not actually the religion in power that they had toppled. An interesting idea.

[@almazchati4178]

Your history is messed up. Mongols from the beginning had a large Muslim component, Eastern and Nordic Turks. They had a disagreements on trading with China with other Muslim Turks. Mongols were Turkified and became Muslims. Tamerlane came 150 years later. In any case, Islam expanded its realm under both especially into India and Indonesia.

[@Louis.R]

@@almazchati4178 You have misunderstood my meaning, because you are conflating modern notions of Islam with the 'Islam' of those Turks and Mongols. My point is that the more ancient syncretistic proto-Islam was finally wiped out and replaced by what we now know as Islam. The Mongols and Turks played a significant role in this, both in their conquests, and in their redefining of what Islam was to be.

[@almazchati4178]

@@Louis.R There are no two brands of Islam if that is what you are saying. From 750 to 1500 Muslims had the most advanced civilization, but not the population to fight of crusades which continued nonstop. Divisions among Muslims are political, not religious, even Sunni and Shia.

[@Louis.R]

@@almazchati4178 I see that you've been very closely following all of PfanderFilms' educational videos 🤣

[@tolgaugar854]

Did you know that no single ottoman sultan has ever gone pilgramage to mecca? None out of 36 of them for almost 600 years.

[@fantasia55]

interesting

[@zealotChristians]

YhiCsLh2m is the Most stuped reLigion, let us celebrate "Burn Pourqan Day". 😁 😂

[@123dsj123]

There are many, many ancient maps on which there are many, many ancient cities. Therefore, it should not be difficult for Muslims to find one ancient map that dates before the 10th century A.D. that has the City of Mecca on it. The problem is this: No empire, no military conqueror, no civilization, and no human being existing before the 10th century A.D. knew (or heard) of a city called “Mecca” - the original home of the “Standard Islamic Narratives” 90-feet tall Adam and Eve. * One would expect Mecca, a city in the desert where there is a 12,000-years old well - the Zamzam Well, “The Well of God” that never runs dry will be the most sought after (or pursued) treasure trove in all of antiquities - human history.

[@Aishas_Goat]

I thought Muslims had annual burning of all data and re-invent what “feels” right every 10 years or so

[@JesusSwineWhoreMarySon]

Even Jesus Swine 🐷 ✝️ who buried in Toilets of palestine know zamzam well is in mecca of present lol😂😂

[@ailove313]

Their last hope is thataybe it is buried under the sand a few kilometres.

[@sgt.grinch3299]

Mel is an incredible Historian. He is our Historical Hammer!

[@fantasia55]

Mel is a credible historian.

[@zealotChristians]

Mel's findings destroys the Islam's hoax story.

[@julioquirino2131]

The description of this "Muhammed" resembles the Medieval Popes!

[@aaronmusa234]

except the popes liked 11 yr old altar boys

[@loulasher]

That's an interesting take. I've been starting to see this, especially the misapplication of the suffering servant, as the building of anti-christendom in opposition to the building of Christendom. The mess we see in the world today looks to me like the destruction of Christendom nearing completion and the usurpation by anti-christendom of it.

[@garybowings1538]

​"Dear Broder: At Talaq ayat 4 says I can divorce my 6 year old wife if she breaks her Barbie doll. Muh?" - Bob Muh

[@aaronmusa234]

@@garybowings1538 the Lost Gospels ' Jesus frolicked nude with young boys ' started church pedophilia that continues today. now you know the rest of the story in fact bible has a plethora of pedophlia in it. numbers 31 ' moses Took 32000 child virgins as a war booty ' Aaron got seconds. Issac 'married his 3 yr old cousin Rebecca' Sanhedrin 55a Joseph 74 Mary 12 at marriage. anyone know if they had a form of viagra back then oy vey

[@Aishas_Goat]

@@garybowings1538q33:49 + 65:4 = 😳 infant 👶🏼 penetration, as old as 0.001 seconds old

[@silverltc2729]

Surah 18:27 in The Noble Quran says Torat, Zabur and Injeel can never be changed. If they can be changed, then the Qur'an is false.

[@xiontion9993]

18:27) (O Prophet),26 recite to them from the Book of your Lord what has been revealed to you(quran) for none may change His words; (and were you to make any change in His words) you will find no refuge from Him.....i dont see jabr or injeel,,,,as for books being corupted injel and jabor are lost books,,,,bible is not torah or jabur or injeel,,,

[@morghe321]

​@xiontion9993 wrong, you're either lying or you're just ignorant. The burden of proof is upon you to prove it isn't the same books referred to in the Qur'an and Hadiths.

[@aaronmusa234]

yes true. now go find the gospel of Jesus. not mark Matt John or Luke who bart e concluded ' were not written by any of these apostles '

[@stlouisix3]

Ay but avoid calling it noble. That's & it's dæmøniç.

[@krakoosh1]

@@aaronmusa234troll much?

[@henktmmr]

GBU! Thank you for exposing lies and revealing truth again! ❤

[@garybowings1538]

"Alonzo Harris" believes in three gods.

[@stefanblumhoff2744]

What does that actually mean? Are you Gary Bowling christian or muslim. What is your exact point?

[@garybowings1538]

​@@stefanblumhoff2744"Alonzo Harris" believes in three gods.

[@User098n]

​@@garybowings1538Blackstone kisser

[@moorek1967]

@@stefanblumhoff2744 Alonzo Harris always says the same thing " [insert name here] believes in three gods". In every comment section. Then Alonzo has a thousand different usernames, says the same thing. He is like a 5 year-old saying "uh huh, Jay Smith believes in three gods, I'm a Bible scholar. Nuh uh, islam does not believe three gods.". That's Alonzo Harris, the dumbest scholar ever. "Nuh uh" he replies.

[@MUHAMMAD_SAW_WAS_A_FAIRY_TALE]

Which gods do muslims worship to? 1. Mr. Muhammad the porn fairy taile prophet 2. Blackstone 3. Blackbox 4. Musa as 5. Allah swt THE BEST DECEIVER

[@tc7500]

I always suspected the Jewish origins of modern Islam as a counterweight to Christianity ✝

[@danfodio1246]

They invented a multitude of mhmds (false christs) as counterfeits to the original Christ.

[@Cross77774]

Very interesting

[@RoninofRamen]

Good to hear that we're going to get on to the matter of dating extant manuscripts of the hadith, sunnah, sira, tafsir and tarikh. It seems cira and pfanderfilms covered the dating of the quranic codices ages ago but it would be good to have some solid datings for these other genre.

[@bobinindiana]

Fascinating video! How could there be a book of genealogies over a 1000 years after the destruction of the Temple and does this book exist today?

[@sechrima9998]

It makes a lot of sense to me that Islam emerged out of some sort of Judaized, unitarian, messianic Nazarene sect of Jews, the Nasara of the Qur'an. They corrupted the meaning of the title Christ/Messiah, making it some procession of MHMD, and they denied the theology of the Father and the Son. "I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive." John 5:43. Presumably Jesus prophesying the Jewish MHMD to come, or perhaps the Qur'anic conception of Allah. "Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us. But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things. I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth. Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also. Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. And this is the promise that He has promised us-eternal life. These things I have written to you concerning those who try to deceive you." 1 John 2:18-26. Here we see how some Christians, as early as the first and second generations, were departing the faith and establishing the beginning stages of the Antichrist heresies, which would later culminate in Islam. Mel and AJ Deus must contend with the fact that the Qur'an is very focused on Jesus and Antichristian theology. There may well have been Jews deeply involved at the conception of Islam, but they can't have been Rabbinical/Talmudic Jews as we know them today. They were definitely Nazarene Jews (Nasara). The kufar (KFR) of the Qur'an were very likely Rabbinical/Talmudic Jews. This needs to be clarified for the theory to make any sense. The Qur'an is a preaching/lectionary for the Ishmaelites/Hagarenes to bring them under Nazarene control (in order to overthrow Byzantine/Trinitarian Christian rule of Jerusalem, while preserving a distinction between Nazarene Jews and Noachide gentiles (Mu'minin).

[@RedWolf75]

That's where I think this is going. It's very probable that these Jewish Exilarchs were actually heretical from standard Judaism. They were of the Nazarene bent.

[@IslamicOrigins]

I have tried to say as much but I think you have said it much clearer. Thank you for this contribution. I'm in a funny position: reporting on what I discover but still trying to not be too definitive as I try to keep open to new findings that might require revision at the edges. But we are getting there. It is getting clearer.

[@RedWolf75]

@@IslamicOrigins We don't know what exactly the ideology of these Exilarchs were. There is a reason there were other Jews opposed to them

[@sechrima9998]

@@RedWolf75 If, as Benjamin of Tudela narrates, the Exilarch truly wore the cipher of Muhammad (presumably the Shahada or something like it), it tells me he wasn't just a Talmudic Jew in good standing with the Muslims, but supportive of Qur'anic doctrines, which include Jesus as prophet and messiah (albeit a conception of messiah unfamiliar to Christian sensibilities). No Talmudic Jew would accept this view of Jesus. Therefore, the Exilarchs must have been Nazarenes (Qur'anic Nasara).

[@ConservativeArabNet]

Extraordinary research

[@IslamicOrigins]

Just to clarify: successive caliphs were treated as mhmds, Mahmads. It doesn't mean Muhammad lived in a later era. There were a chain of Mahmads.

[@abrahamalemayehu6572]

Dr Jay God bless from Ethiopia orthodox, chiristans must be unity

[@ahler3973]

Gbu all

[@sgt.grinch3299]

Same to you

[@GilbertJones-cv9yf]

After hearing this and tying into the development of the 700 Qurans and 1000's of hadefs coming out with the Ottomans, who would have grabbed anyone even Haffs to write a variation of the Ouran. There is another aspect which is the modus operandi of the Mongols to raise a city down so no cats or dogs exist. This also means that all the scholars and libraries within a city are disposed of and therefore all must be rebuilt by the Ottomans similar to figuratively using adobe to repair a cite's stone wall. This idea of devastation would also draw attention to the development of the 4 schools of Islamic law, which could explain why they are anchored in different cities. If destruction is so deep the repair work needed could also be reflected in the lack of knowing Aramaic scripts by the four string scholars exposing a 25% black or dark areas of the Quran rewritten into the pages as 'fill'. The example I would put forward is the actions of the Aztecs in an alternate history overthrow the Spanish 100 yrs after they came and had to rebuild their civilization.

[@cascarrabias397]

Thank you Mel... I have been saying that for years... The Otomans had lots of time to manipulate whatever. Nop, Jay... Mel is the man, and AJ are doing a fantastic job.

[@julietabraham476]

Whoa! Brother Mel this was quite a hard pill to swallow, the Jewish political Exilarch& and an Islamic Caliph.At the 6.13mark of the video there is mention of Saidna Ben Daoud and this rang a bell for me, and I hope Dr Jay is reading my comment since he grew up in India, he should know there is a small Shia Ismaili sect in India called the Bohra Ismaili that have a spiritual leader called Syedna and trace their origins to the Fatimid Egyptian & Yemeni.This is a small philanthropic sect with quite a bit of deviation from mainstream Islam.The men wear embroidered hats and the women wear pretty embroidered burkhas and are very educated in comparison to other Indian moslem women.I wonder if there is any research on this group, lots of missing links.Anyways as always this is very interesting and you brethren keep me on the edge of my seat...lol God bless you all immensely and keep going...Ameen.

[@IslamicOrigins]

Yes, indeed. I can only say: this is what Benjamin reports. It would be good if we had more corroborating evidence, even just to see if he exaggerated or left key things out.

[@johnperry5660]

Thanks Dr Jay Smith for your material !

[@KeepsLearning]

How about the mosques said to be built in the 8th century

[@mysotiras21]

Many of them were actually churches that were transformed into mosques later.

[@user-fd6tw2rw8z]

I have been watching your videos , my conclusion is this,that Islam is a product of Christian but later it changed hugely by some empires in need.

[@xiontion9993]

your watching a mental dude,,,,islam is not a copy of christians because islam is a monotheistic religion not a pagan religion where god bacomes human and there are three gods,,,jesus was a jewish man not a greek,,he use to goto synagoges not church,,,,he never said i am GOD,,,not once,,,,trinity is human made not in bible,,,,,,,,,read a book ABRAHAM FULLFILED

[@Cross77774]

​@@xiontion9993Read S-t John of Damascus - Exposition of the Orthodox Faith - it's online and explains the Holy Trinity.

[@trinitymatrix9719]

@@xiontion9993 islam is copy paste of lots of different absurd human ideas and has a book jampacked with errors and fatal mistakes....

[@aliij2538]

@@xiontion9993 you seem ignorant. Have you not heard about the Hadith of the beardless young man sitting on green grass and will reveal his leg on judgement day? Have you not heard that the black stone is the right hand of Al-Lah? How is that not pagan? You're right, it's not a perfect copy but more like they stole a little bit from Christianity, a bit more from Judaism, a bit less from mandaeism and zoarastians and even took the pagan Hajj from the polytheistic paganas of ignorance.

[@donovan8747]

​@@xiontion9993 Islam is a copy and twists of many things. Islam has adopted many pagan practices. Fact: There is NO EVIDENCE of early monotheists praying towards Mecca/Kaaba, be it early Muslims or Jews and Christians. If Kaaba is a scam, then Islam is based on lies. Muslim may call Islam is "monotheistic", but monotheistic to what exactly? Definitely NOT to the One and True God.

[@chrishoff402]

I recall the story of the Arab princess who had the aqueducts built in Mecca beginning in 801 A.D., apparently a big fan of the Qur'an. She did it to provide water for pilgrims. So Mecca would have been well established as a holy site where the Black Stone was worshipped even if Ben of Tuleda had never visited the place or written about it.

[@slippingsnake]

actualy you make a good point. Mel is not enying the existence of Mecca but it might have been less important at the time. These water-lines were forgotten and decayed, then rediscovered and restored centuries later. (I've got this from the german wiki, these Article are not availble in other languages, Lemma: ʿAin ʿArafāt, ʿAin Bāzān and ʿAin Zubaida)

[@Ower8x]

@@slippingsnake Yeah its possible that it was a pilgrimage site ... and may have been an important/prominent one at the time .... but what Mell is saying here it was not THE Islamic Pilgrimage site instead it was Baghdad And if the speculation about the partnership breaking down after the Mongols after the Destruction of Baghdad , as the 2 groups went their separate ways, it would make sense that the muslim would select a different important/prominent pilgrimage site instead of it ...

[@aaronmusa234]

today the wailing wall In Jerusalem is the site of the largest gay pride parade on earth

[@Ower8x]

@@aaronmusa234 not sure what that has anything to do with the discussion here but you do you

[@aaronmusa234]

@@Ower8x nothing at all. except the holy sites in Jerusalem [ gay pride parades] and Vatican City [ pedophilia rampant] have left only Mecca a holy site for remembrance of the one god. the creator

[@sgt.grinch3299]

This is incredible information. Islamic history is a mess.

[@areyeh4979]

I wouldn't trust any spiritual leader or divine leader with the ambition for world power, wealth, and women!

[@lostintranslation1957]

I'm with you on these ideas almost fully but none of it explains Spain so what is the truth there?

[@IslamicOrigins]

I will have to come back and tackle that at a later date. Apart from the role of the Jewish Nasi in Narbonne, I can't fill in much on that right now. Thomas Alexander has done a lot of great work on that and I hope I can supplement that in a meaningful way.

[@stefanblumhoff2744]

Is it possible to do a series SPECIFICALLY on SHIRK in Islamic traditions, prayer AND THE Quran itself

[@GizmoFromPizmo]

And the worship (i.e. bowing down) to the meteor embedded in the Kaaba. Idol worshipers in denial. They're just like Catholics. It's the same form of religion.

[@stephaneduberrac3833]

Jay, I would like to suggest that there is a whole treasure trove of writings that have not been included in the mix for your discussions. It is the early Jewish writings in the mishnas, talmud and targums. I know that Joe has mentioned some but. There seems to be a lot that has not been vetted nearly enough. We are told of Waraqa ibn Nauful translating the scriptures into Arabic. We know that the Quran borrows stories from these documents. I have noticed several phrases in that literature that be useful, such as the pronoun confusion that is often seen. The phrases Blessed be He are common in the Jewish writings from that period. I would like to discuss with you further.

[@BionAvastar3000]

Makes sense to me!

[@davidmcintosh3468]

... just out of curiosity ... did that jewish exilarch have jewish explanations of the law translated into syriac/aramaic/arabic, and put into a book or lectionary for the non-jews to learn? and did the exilarch perchance have an ivory throne? THIS IS TURNING INTO A SUPER INTERESTING TREASURE HUNT! May God richly bless you all!

[@lostintranslation1957]

It seems then that C.S. Lewis's characters in the Narnia books were an exact replica.

[@vironpayne3405]

Doesn't the dates of the earlier 1st and 2nd crusades tend to throw a wrench into the cozy parallel relationship between 11th century Jews, Muslims, and even Christians?

[@martinjackman2943]

The're we're heretic J.ws, heretic Christians and heretic M.sl.ms.. who operated on both sides and independently.. No clear demarcation lines.

[@c.w_]

What did the Christian crusaders call their enemy in the Holy Land?

[@davidabramovichkosciuszko4216]

❤

[@Ower8x]

Question for Mel: how would you address Ibn Jubayr and any disparities between his accounts and Benjamin of Tudelas?

[@IslamicOrigins]

I'm new to him. It is very odd and indeed suspect that he says about Baghdad: "Most of its traces have gone, leaving only a famous name”. That sounds incredibly anachronistic to me. Baghdad was the jewel of the Abbasids. When the Mongols besieged Baghdad 100 years after Ibn Jubayr's supposed account (the siege happened in 1258AD), Hulegu estimated around 200,000 deaths, while even Muslim sources suggest a staggering range of 800,000 to 2,000,000 were killed. This is hard to square with Ibn Jubayr's claim - if indeed he wrote it back then - that "most of its traces have gone". In contrast, Benjamin's account talks about Baghdad as the "great city". By all accounts, Baghdad was the largest city in the world at that time, with a population of over 1 million, which seems nothing to us now but was actually huge for that time. The only way someone could mistakenly say about Baghdad that most of its traces have gone is that the work was written AFTER the Mongol conquest in 1258 and not before it. Islam has proven very adept at writing fictions to cover up stuff and I wouldn't be surprised this was written to undo the damage done by Benjamin's very balanced account.

[@Ower8x]

@@IslamicOrigins Yeah Jubayr is a head scratcher from what I know his descriptions about places like Norman Sicily and Crusader Jerusalem is pretty accurate ... its east of that that things start to get strange ...

[@IslamicOrigins]

@@Ower8x There is always the chance that his writing got "enhanced" and where it gets haywire is where things could have got dropped in. This is the age old problem of interpolation. I think there is a special place in hell for those that add interpolations to old histories. :)

[@Ower8x]

@@IslamicOrigins My sentiment exactly

[@Aishas_Goat]

I always see that islam was invented in 1350 After Christ

[@collybever]

Maybe there were a lot of bandit problems down Mecca way. Did not a very effective but ruthless crusader raid it ? So one could imagine them wanting to not bother with the whole pfaff of an arduous pilgrimage with bandits and a difficult trip, and so obliging the caliph could be easier option. They had excellent libraries in Baghdad, and may have got very sceptical about the religion ? Setting oneself up as a kind of Mohammed substitute could be quite appealing.

[@noodleitout5424]

14:20 See the story of Joseph in Egypt for more details. Genesis 41 verses 41 through 44.

[@DWayTruthLife]

It's more make sense to me that this Islam things were created by ottoman

[@peteodonnell6219]

I'd spend time on the Ottomans. It makes more sense to me.

[@Repent4JesusChrist]

Onward Christian Berean 🙏 ✝️ 🕊

[@Andersljungberg]

I want to remember that it says something about a kaba in Yemen in the Hadith. Which Would Be Destroyed By Order Of Mohammed Or If He Destroyed It

[@chuckcoleman6502]

Baghdad was under the control of the Sunni Seljuk Turks. I think they told B of T stories, perhaps to encourage Jewish immigration. The immigrants could then be productive and pay jizya. It’s not clear that he met any of the luminaries he mentioned. It’s clear that he believed what he was told. Other evidence indicates that the Seljuks were like any other Sunnis then. What is interesting is that the Mu’tazilites’ predecessors were active early on, perhaps starting as opponents to the creation of Islam as a non-Christian religion.

[@mrbaab5932]

There were Jews in Yemen going back to 106 CE when the Hinyar Kingdom converted to Judaism.

[@Iwant2do]

So, we are not going so far? For example the abolahab in Quran! So what we can say to Muslims?Quran in 7th century?other Mohammad?

[@asifbrettishmaelmakki9]

Two points. a) is it known if Tudela is on Crucified Christ side or against the Crucified Christ ? Factual information is primarily with those with crucified Christ(that my opinion). b) How do Jews who reject the Messiah Christ as being the Messiah Christ 2000yrs ago, cooperate with muslims who standardly claim Messiah Christ was the real Messiah 2000yrs ago,yet claim he was not crucified?

[@johnperry5660]

Every one spread this info

[@GizmoFromPizmo]

A religious ruler and a political ruler? Does it sound a little like a Pope and a Holy Roman Emperor? Can we see a pattern?

[@mauriciorosas8170]

The Judeans were (and are) the Political Counsels and Administrators for the lazy and the weak....it is conceivable that they also were "counsels in religious matters"....IF you know what I mean....

[@ross3818]

"Batlaním" literally means idlers. The root B.T.L. means void.

[@IslamicOrigins]

Interesting.

[@ross3818]

@@IslamicOrigins There was a comedy duo called the batlanim here in the 90s. They were hilarious. But in the religious context, a batlan corresponds to the Greek skolastikos, scholar, both terms alluding to leisure.

[@c.w_]

Is Islam a socio-religious empire designed to unite the Middle East for those that they conquer and those that submit?

[@kornelia8627]

Of course, every kingdom adapted it to its purpose. Can you judge them? 😂 It is perfect, everybody wanted to have at least a part of it. Religion sells well ... The problem for Christians is that we can not have more as The Lord 😊 What a glorious problem 😅😂❤❤❤ I love Christ every day more for shining for us for so loooong❤️‍🔥 What kind of Children are we, that some can not recognize the fathers hand in all things. And can not distinguish between good and bad. It is so easy to live in peace... God bless you ❤

[@clintonjonker8474]

So why dont you start with your general thesis and or message, and then show the proof, that way it wouldnt make one stop the video because of repeating yourself or being boring and not getting to the point

[@garybowings1538]

You came here little buddy. 😂

[@shiningcartoonist]

Aren’t Jews or maybe non- Muslims barred from entering Mecca? Maybe he couldn’t go to Mecca even if he had a desire to - which is debatable in my opinion

[@mysotiras21]

Today they are barred from Mecca. No evidence that this was so in the 12th century AD.

[@GizmoFromPizmo]

"Chain of Muhammads". This is exactly like the doctrine of "Apostolic Succession" that we see in another religion. I'm telling you, the more I learn about Islam, the more I see the religion that I grew up in. They are mirrors one of another.

[@fantasia55]

The difference is papal succession is attested historically all the way back.

[@GizmoFromPizmo]

@@fantasia55 That's what they want the world to believe. It's a redaction, like Muhammad himself. Let's examine the historical record. Was Peter the first pope? Nothing in the New Testament ever calls him that. In fact, the office of pope isn't even mentioned, let alone identifying who might have held that office. Mystery religions like Catholicism all lean heavily on the doctrine of "because I say so". I'm all in favor of letting history speak. The New Testament's silence is loud and clear. The apostles knew nothing of this the office of pope or even cardinal.

[@GizmoFromPizmo]

@@fantasia55 - Not according to the New Testament. No popes mentioned there at all.

[@fantasia55]

@GizmoFromPizmo Peter. Peter is in the Bible. There are thousands of pages from the Church Fathers, with plenty of references to various Popes. Also, there exist voluminous references to early Popes by secular rulers such as Byzantine Emperors. And then there is the archeological evidence. Comparing all that to fictitious lists of fictitious Muhammeds is actually an argument in favor of Islam - which is probably your intention.

[@GizmoFromPizmo]

@@fantasia55 - Tell the apostles Paul and Peter this information because from their own writings, they didn't even mention the office of pope.

[@Frst2nxt]

Jews and Christians have not been allowed near Mecca or Medina for most of islamic history. Would why Benjamin of Tudela have been given a forbidden privilege?

[@IslamicOrigins]

Ludovico di Varthema, a non-muslim, wrote a book about his travels to Mecca in 1503AD called "The Travels of Ludovico di Varthema in Egypt, Syria, Arabia Desert and Arabia Felix, in Persia, India, and Ethiopia, A.D. 1503 to 1508". He spent 3 weeks in Mecca. He did go in disguise but I don't know if there was any difficulty prior to that in visiting there.

[@mysotiras21]

SAYS WHO??? That Muslim commandment was INVENTED LONG after Muhammad supposedly lived, then pushed back to the 7th century,

[@jamalbaraja6130]

You don"t get tired of making up different stories. The previous prophets and messengers of God prophesied his coming.

[@introhiki7855]

what are you even talking about. duh.

[@bobfisher1909]

One thing we all agree Islam was made up from bits of every religion, they added more as time went on, today they still adding and removing text from their sites, (adding in brackets is corrupting Islam sin) I do love the royal we when that was not known in those days. I would suggest "We" meaning the recitation team as they compiled the Quran not aimed at Allah but the scholars themselves as they wrote the very poor history of tails. Sahih International: Indeed, We have sent it down as an Arabic Qur'an that you might understand. 12:2 / You would say the Quran was not meant for no one but those who are Arabic speaking people of that time, like a set of rules for them not the rest of mankind. If God wanted to use someone then He would have chosen the same languish so all can understand as it was easy to translate unlike the Arabic. The English royal we, or pluralis majestatis, dates to the late twelfth century, around the time of Henry II and his successor Richard I, and meant “God and I,” invoking the divine right of kings.

[@MohamedShou]

Wait so now prophet Muhammad is immortal or a secret time traveler? Bru this channel gets ridiculous every video they put out. And still no credible scholar from an institution has ever cited their “research” 😂

[@hardimasrikin4322]

The real Becca is in Petra.Muhammad did not bring religion of Islam but only islam.Islam mean submit same like Jesus,Buddha etc.Religion of islam is created 150 years after his death.His first wife Khatijah is a jews.Muhammad just bring islam not religion of islam and because of this his 2 grandson were killed and Quran was written after his death same as Jesus..Find the truth the truth will find us.😢😢

[@ingoschneuing1073]

As we all know by now, the word ISLAM literally means "submission" in Arabic, referring to submission to God. MUSLIM, one who practices Islam, refers to one who submits to his God. A true CHRISTIAN is one who practices the teachings of Jesus Christ, who submits to Jesus the Messiah, the praised One [mhdh] A true JEW is one who practices the teachings of God given to Mose, who submits to Jehovah the praised One [mhdh] A Highpriest of the Jews of old was the mhmd, under him the Exilarch. The Jewish Highpriest became in arabic ( arabs=those on the west of Euphrates) Caliph. Caliph comes from the Arabic word khalafa, meaning "successor" or "next in line." ... successor of the previous one. Mind you, there was a death penalty to any non-Jew, who would even try to study Thora and since ca. 600 AD the Talmud. The Yeshiva was and is strictly for Jews to become one with the teachings of the Sages, later Talmud/Sohar/Tanja etc. So this Caliph was the top Jew of all Jews ‼️ All Caliphs were SAGES, Gaonim of the Jews that claim to be Jews but were the seed of the Viper, as is written and their father until today is Lucifer the Satan.

[@moorek1967]

Actually, Islam means surrender to a military force. Here is what the Pact of Umar says: In the name of God, the Merciful, the Compassionate! This is a writing to Umar from the Christians of such and such a city. When You [Muslims] marched against us [Christians],: we asked of you protection for ourselves, our posterity, our possessions, and our co-religionists; and we made this stipulation with you, that we will not erect in our city or the suburbs any new monastery, church, cell or hermitage; that we will not repair any of such buildings that may fall into ruins, or renew those that may be situated in the Muslim quarters of the town; that we will not refuse the Muslims entry into our churches either by night or by day; that we will open the gates wide to passengers and travellers; that we will receive any Muslim traveller into our houses and give him food and lodging for three nights; that we will not harbor any spy in our churches or houses, or conceal any enemy of the Muslims. [At least six of these laws were taken over from earlier Christian laws against infidels.] That we will not teach our children the Qu'ran [some nationalist Arabs feared the infidels would ridicule the Qu'ran; others did not want infidels even to learn the language]; that we will not make a show of the Christian religion nor invite any one to embrace it; that we will not prevent any of our kinsmen from embracing Islam, if they so desire. That we will honor the Muslims and rise up in our assemblies when they wish to take their seats; that we will not imitate them in our dress, either in the cap, turban, sandals, or parting of the hair; that we will not make use of their expressions of speech, nor adopt their surnames [infidels must not use greetings and special phrases employed only by Muslims]; that we will not ride on saddles, or gird on swords, or take to ourselves arms or wear them, or engrave Arabic inscriptions on our rings; that we will not sell wine [forbidden to Muslims]; that we will shave the front of our heads; that we will keep to our own style of dress, wherever we may be; that we will wear girdles round our waists [infidels wore leather or cord girdles; Muslims, cloth and silk]. That we will not display the cross upon our churches or display our crosses or our sacred books in the streets of the Muslims, or in their market-places; that we will strike the clappers in our churches lightly [wooden rattles or bells summoned the people to church or synagogue]; that we will not recite our services in a loud voice when a Muslim is present; that we will not carry Palm branches [on Palm Sunday] or our images in procession in the streets; that at the burial of our dead we will not chant loudly or carry lighted candles in the streets of the Muslims or their market places; that we will not take any slaves that have already been in the possession of Muslims, nor spy into their houses; and that we will not strike any Muslim. All this we promise to observe, on behalf of ourselves and our co-religionists, and receive protection from you in exchange; and if we violate any of the conditions of this agreement, then we forfeit your protection and you are at liberty to treat us as enemies and rebels. Do you think there is anything in that writing that indicates anything other than surrendering to a military force? It starts with "ALLAH (the god of islam is allah, therefore say allah), the merciful and compassionate.... See how it starts? Allah is merciful and compassionate only after a muslim army trampled over the people forcing them to surrender, submit and capitulate to islam. So, revise your comment just a little.

[@AlonzoHarris235]

@@moorek1967 Numbers 31:17 🤡

[@oraetlabora3067]

@@AlonzoHarris235what is the context of Numbers 31, can you tell us?

[@oraetlabora3067]

I dont know what line you are trying to draw here, but the Islamic Caliphs have nothing to do with the Jewish High Priests, neither in their Teachings or beliefs.

[@AlonzoHarris235]

@@oraetlabora3067 There is no context for taking out babies for their ethnicity.

[@abrarshahriar6598]

He is mad.

[@rvierra7235]

Thumbs up, but I think there was no Muhammad that ever lived.

[@mysotiras21]

I agree.

[@almazchati4178]

You are breaking new ground in idiocy! A simple question for you: How many slaves did Paul owned? Let us see if you are brave enough to admit. Did one of his slaves rebel against him?

[@collybever]

? None mentioned. But he did encounter a runaway slave, and sent a letter to the owner who had become a christian, hinting that he should be freed. He did say slave dealers were typically one of the worse kind of humans, Mohammed of the Standard Narrative was in that category. Looking at slave trades, the slavers tend to be the worst for sure, whereas individual owners might vary one would expect. The Arab slave trade across the Sahara, they left laggards to pass on (lost lives) due to thirst if they could not keep up with the pace in the chain gangs, the Atlantic slave trade packed them like sardines on boats (disease outbreaks).

[@almazchati4178]

@@collybever Mohammad has nothing to do with what I am saying here. So don't change the subject. It is silly to say that Mohammad is so bad, my Bible must be right. There is no logic in it. It is silly. Now open up your Bible, go to the end of Romans. You will find someone named 'Tertius', the third. That is how a Roman named his slaves. He identifies himself as the author of the letter. Paul had at least 3 slaves. The slave you are talking about is what the Biblical scholars call his lover. He was not a run away slave. A run away slave can never be forgiven. Tertius is the most likely author of Gospels as well. His writing skills must have improved over time. According to Josephus, Jesus was alive during the Jewish war. That refutes the story of Jesus in Gospels. Gospels are fraud. They are the handiwork of Tertius. They have nothing to do with Jesus.

[@IslamicOrigins]

How's that related to the video? A 12th century eye witness account of the 12th century is better any day to your 21st century "I think I know what happened" back then.

[@almazchati4178]

@@IslamicOrigins It is related. It is silly to say that Mohammad is so bad, my Bible must be right. The whole premise of this channel is pure lunacy.

[@almazchati4178]

@@IslamicOrigins Yes, there is gold in the old. That is why my sources are from first century. Read my posts carefully. I am talking about Paul, Tertius, Josephus, James and Jesus.

[@gkbaloch6185]

at all not convesing

[@aaronmusa234]

this is like the imperial wizard of the christian kkk coming out and saying moses lived 500 yrs later lol our jewish friends would laugh him off the stage

[@aliij2538]

Mo learned about Moses from the Jews that he fasted on the day of kabbur which he mistook for ashura on a lunar pagan calendar. Oh wait, he also told the Christians about Christ when he himself came after the fact over 550 years later and was an illiterate.

[@garybowings1538]

"Dear Broder: This is like Dr. Keith L. Moore saying baby is blood clot. Muh?" - Bob Muh

[@martinjackman2943]

NO.. it's like lots of people mixing up lots of people with the same nickname... Robin Hood and Ali Baba =MHMD

[@martinjackman2943]

It's the opposite of "Alone-Slow Hair-Arse " having lots of aliases but being the same dimwit.

[@mysotiras21]

Our Jewish friends certainly LAUGH at the grandiose pretensions of Muslims. The Jews say that Allah is NOT God, Muhammad was NOT a prophet, and the Qur'an is NOT scripture. So WHY do you stone-kissers keep trying to hide behind Judaism???

[@munir5210]

These moans still spreading their imaginary historical events.

[@garybowings1538]

Never any details. Why? 😂

[@RAVU514]

Please watch and debung exmuslim momentum activits such as SACHWALA QURANWALA DEENEBHAI SAJJID HARRIS SULTAN SAMEER & ADAM SEEKER AHAMED IN ENGLISH AND SPECIALLY EXMUSLIM SAHIL to save ISLAM

[@mysotiras21]

No saving Islam. It is already in its death throes, now that the ugly truth about it is getting revealed.

[@ozkanarrslan]

Hey jay, islam and cristianity whats big difference for you you should answer this, biggest difference. Most important difference, do not look as cristian. For me, jesus is son of god or mariam. Its easy basic clear 3 years old children brain level difference point. So you should answer this, prove it. Quran says, jesus son of mariam, and all over world all people accept, also non muslims. You should prove, like this, because, son means, you can prove it if people do not believe you, its not a religion problem, its not god problem, its humans problem 2+2=? Same problem. I wait, how you prove 2+2=4 then prove jesus is son of god

[@garybowings1538]

How did Maryam become pregnant? Prove it.

[@ozkanarrslan]

@@garybowings1538 had sex with god?

[@ozkanarrslan]

@@garybowings1538 had sex with your god?

[@ozkanarrslan]

@@garybowings1538 had marriam love night with god?

[@garybowings1538]

@@ozkanarrslan Prove it.

[@naoufalch9567]

Monea padikanhudnd islam Iman qurhan ( sex wahith shukallam milk 🥛🍼 Hellam bismi risk ya allha)

[@naoufalch9567]

Muhammad Muhammad rasullha Allhmdulliha

[@naoufalch9567]

Ya allha

[@naoufalch9567]

Thinking mariyam Beybi 🍼 allhu jibril qurhan hirki mallkukall jinnukall Amnarsullha Muhammad Muhammad rasullha ya allha iklas

[@usmanmanni786]

MUHAMMAD was a title for our prophet, who was an orphan. No one knew who was MUHAMMAD'S father was, let alone that he was a leader. The actual name of our last prophet was Huthman. He even told them not to do idol worship on the masjid al haram. Or even waste water with wudhu

[@sheikhboyardee556]

No real evidence that mohummad even existed. He was probably a person created from a number of men's actions over time.

[@mysotiras21]

YAWN. Muhammad NEVER EXISTED. He is a FABLE that early Muslims INVENTED, then pushed back to the 7th century, to justify their imperial conquests.

[@OldsReporter]

I wouldn't be surprised if one day you upload a new video titled: Muhammad was a Martian woman. And then the next day: Muhammad was rainbow pony. Blah blah blah. Whatever.

[@sheikhboyardee556]

Valid research exposing the truth. If you have some evidence based on facts that refutes what they say it would be nice for you to post it.

[@123dsj123]

There are many, many ancient maps on which there are many, many ancient cities. Therefore, it should not be difficult for Muslims to find one ancient map that dates before the 10th century A.D. that has on it the City of Mecca - the original Home City of Adam and Eve. The problem is no human being living before the 10th century A.D. knew of a city called “Mecca”.

[@OldsReporter]

@@sheikhboyardee556 yeah right, whatever you say

[@OldsReporter]

@@123dsj123 yeah right, wahtever you say

[@mysotiras21]

Muhammad NEVER existed historically. He is just a Muslim fable, so he could just as well be a Martian woman as a prophet of God.

[@aaronharun1394H]

Jesus was born. God was not born.

[@garybowings1538]

"Dear Broder: Clay NOT alive. Clay is dead. Clay is dirt. Clay is mud. We walk on clay. Clay make shoe dirty. Clay no bird. Blessed Maryam give clay toy for Baby Isa. This bird no fly. Clay is brick. Clay is bowl. Clay NOT bone. Clay NOT skin. Clay NOT blood. Adam NOT clay. That IMPOSSIBLE! Amin." - Aaron Harun

[@RabbiMalahkYah]

Muhammad was born out of mu'tah

[@roblangsdorf8758]

Genesis 1:1 uses a plural noun for God but a single verb. So God is a unity, but one with more than personality. The book of John tells us that the Word of God was the one who created everything and that this Word was the one who was born as Jesus the Christ, God incarnate. This is something that believers in the false prophet have trouble with.

[@aaronharun1394H]

And God* said, “Let there BE light,” and there WAS light. (Genesis 1: 3) *in arabic translations of the bible, the word Allah (الله) is used. God created by His Word does not mean what He created is Him.

[@RabbiMalahkYah]

@aaronharun1394H and the Spirit of God was over the deep , you kinds missed words purposefully

[@AlonzoHarris235]

Jay Smith believes in three gods.

[@MU-we8hz]

1924 quran 😂😂😂

[@hambam7533]

@@MU-we8hz oh go kiss a black rock

[@trinitymatrix9719]

@@MU-we8hz I dont think alonzo knows what version of the arabic quran he prefers or the author of it is 😂😂😂😂

[@garybowings1538]

Harris wears panties. 😂

[@mysotiras21]

Muhammad never existed.

[@AllThat-Is]

Dr Jay, how can i pm you?