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The Fantoni / Nunes Bridge Cheating Scandal

  Рет қаралды 87,472

Michael Clark

Michael Clark

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 48
@billsmith5985
@billsmith5985 9 жыл бұрын
I thank Mr. Brogeland (and many others) for bringing these criminals to task. He and other 'clean' players owe you guys a lot. The viewer not knowing of "Big-time Bridge", may like to know the thiefs of the game make 100's, millions of $$ playing our game. Now, hopefully we will be rid of them forever. Keep on, Boye!-Bill Smith
@sandramorselli6837
@sandramorselli6837 3 жыл бұрын
ahahahahahah
@tigerboy1966
@tigerboy1966 8 жыл бұрын
Ah for the good old days when you could signal by scratching your nose with the middle finger of your left hand. You won't top Bridge players cheating until you seal them in lead-lined cells and have them slide the cards under door to a nun who would then place them on the table. Mind you, those nuns can be crafty.
@Frisbieinstein
@Frisbieinstein 3 жыл бұрын
The top players know who is cheating. There is a lot of guessing in bridge, and if someone guesses correctly every time they need it you know something is up. Making a "bonehead mistake" that just happens to be be the only way to win is mighty suspicious too. I just read a post by a top player (Rodwell) who said in 2014 his complaints about F-N cheating were stonewalled by officials. This has been going on for a long time.
@tierradelsol9857
@tierradelsol9857 8 жыл бұрын
Michael Clark, your videos are masterful. i love the music, the use of questions to involve us. Thank you .
@MichaelClarkZ
@MichaelClarkZ 8 жыл бұрын
+Tierra del Sol Much appreciated, thanks!
@malcolmdale
@malcolmdale Жыл бұрын
Different strokes. I had to mute the sound of that awful music.
@malcolmdale9607
@malcolmdale9607 9 ай бұрын
The music! iThank goodness there's a mute button.
@Alterseven
@Alterseven 7 жыл бұрын
Yesterday 10.01.2018 Lausanne's TAS set aside the EBL decision about cheating of Fantoni Nunes.
@chriswysocki8816
@chriswysocki8816 2 жыл бұрын
I know this is not the main point but I am doubly dismayed at these bridge cheating scandals. First disappointment, stems from the existence of cheating on such high level, of course. But the second disappointment is that these cheat systems are so unsophisticated and banal. I mean, these are super smart guys; I'm sure they can handle some simple math to encode/decode their cheats better. For example, one might include the number of the board in some modular arithmetic or some cyclical number group to scramble the meaning of the physical signals. Without knowing such secret encoding key it would be so much harder to prove the cheating and get them caught. And don't use the cheating system on every hand! Most bridge hands do not need this extra illicit info and you are just feeding the evidence to the authorities :(
@CanterburyCat
@CanterburyCat 9 жыл бұрын
Can a person(s) feel good about winning by doing such things? I couldn't.
@felipeherrera1924
@felipeherrera1924 9 жыл бұрын
+CanterburyCat I would not mind some real $$$. Government and Religion does it.
@franknasch
@franknasch 5 жыл бұрын
Of course they can't feel good. That's why they need the huge $$$ awards afterwards to sooth the guilt feeling.
@theobserver2309
@theobserver2309 3 жыл бұрын
A psychopath/sociopath will feel absolutely fine, indeed happy, possibly deliriously happy, as they cheat, steal and plunder tricks from you at the bridge table. Then they will laugh all the way to the bank. The human mammal is a seriously flawed creature...
@christineturner2290
@christineturner2290 2 жыл бұрын
Scum does't worry about dirt.
@LibertyRapsher
@LibertyRapsher Жыл бұрын
I can't believe that bridge players were allowed to get away with these insanely primitive cheat methods all these years. There have been so many activities over the years that have used these methods to relay information to someone else without others being signaled to it. When I was a kid we used to do various tricks (so called magic and/or psychic tricks using these techniques). Where you know what the card and/or what the other person is thinking (what quarter they selected, what room they hid something, etc, etc) based on the angle in which the card is placed. It could be how a cup is placed on a napkin by someone else who's in on the trick, who after taking a sip of their drink places it on the napkin... If the cup is placed in the middle it means something, If it's placed in the top left corner, middle left, bottom corner etc (you could relay 8-16 different signals just based on how someone places a cup on a napkin) or in this case the angle a card or tray is placed. We weren't exceptional kids either. We were simply taught something by someone who was likely taught the same thing by someone else and so on. So I'm literally beside myself that bridge players were able to get away with these primitive signaling methods all these years. On one of these videos two players even used a cough signaling method and it worked... I'm at a loss for words.... that's asinine.
@StephenWong14
@StephenWong14 6 жыл бұрын
The one thing I don't like about bridge is that it's incredibly easy to cheat and difficult to detect, as long as you don't do it too frequently.
@winthropallegaert3793
@winthropallegaert3793 3 жыл бұрын
But then they do it as frequently as necessary and even when caught are exonerated (not proven)…
@StephenWong14
@StephenWong14 3 жыл бұрын
@@winthropallegaert3793 I always expect that 90% of actual cheating in bridge never arouse any suspicion
@dh2119
@dh2119 9 жыл бұрын
Great video! Makes the case very clearly
@33upm
@33upm 8 жыл бұрын
I do not know a thing about bridge but have read the New Yorker. When a game is so vulnerable to secret communication, and when there is so much money in it, anyone can bet there is a lot more cheating around than discussed until now. Am I to believe that the majority of professional bridge players never discusses or uses illicit signals? A way more realistic approach would be to check all videos and search for code. We´d enter a very interesting grey zone her, in two ways. First, we´d realize that occasional signs are not to be detected (or prooved; which makes them the most attractive), and second we would start to see code everywhere. To me the most remarkable thing in this scandal is that a code as simple and open as this could have stayed undetected that long.
@hecatommyriagon655
@hecatommyriagon655 2 жыл бұрын
I know it's been years since you posted this, but for anyone else stumbling through here I will try to explain. The reason why these things go undetected, is that they are inconspicious when you are actually playing. Usually players are looking at their cards, deciding what their call is going to be, so you are hardly checking other players, for which way they placed their lead card. Sometimes you drop it, sometimes you flip it this way or that way. I think the geniusness of this code, is that it was out in the open, for all to see, but it wasn't something that anyone would suspect was anything other than just random variations of playing the lead. The reason why this was discovered, I can imagine, was that suspicion was thrown and then an investigation was done. These guys seemed to be signaling on every hand, which makes it easy to build a pattern of "coincidences". If you however, are smarter about it and only signal now and then, it will be easier to go undetected.
@yoshimitsu1977
@yoshimitsu1977 3 жыл бұрын
After a trial Fulvio Fantoni was cleared by all accusation. But the internet seems to have decided that he is guilt anyway
@tjohnson9916
@tjohnson9916 8 жыл бұрын
Ok, so one could predict the orientation of the led card 96% of the time based on the holding. A valid question would be-does the led card's orientation supply information that would not otherwise be intuitive from or indicated on the convention card? For example, based on this theory, a lead of an A from an AK would be vertical. But, doesn't the lead of an Ace generally indicate the King anyways? Isn't there a marking as such on the convention card for just this holding? Does Fantoni/Nunes' convention card so indicate? I will say there is some good evidence here. 96% is a pretty high correlation rate. But, absent some required/standardized lead process, such as a rule requiring all leads be horizontal or vertical, there could just as well be evidence of a non-standardized lead process. I'm not so sure I would convict someone of a cheating charge, and thereby deprive them of their livelihood, based on this evidence alone. One important caveat: I am not a professional bridge player. It is a stretch to say I am even a decent bridge player. But, I am a quality professional, and one of the mainstays of the quality profession is that the process determines the results. In the absence of a standardized lead process, via the rules, it is very difficult to hang someone with a cheating charge based on what I'm seeing. After all, if the lead process is not standardized, we should not be surprised to see non-standard lead processes. Is this pair guilty of these charges? I honestly don't know.There seems to be some good evidence. I'm just not convinced it is conclusive evidence.
@MichaelClarkZ
@MichaelClarkZ 8 жыл бұрын
+tjohnson9916 There is a law to say you should avoid varying the manner in which you make bids or plays. 96% seems pretty big to me - what proportion would you be satisfied by? And as for Ace leads, you could have a singleton or doubleton Ace and lead the Ace. Or sometimes you'd lead an Ace from Axxx or something, for tactical reasons. Telling partner which situation this is (by cheating) could be very valuable.
@tjohnson9916
@tjohnson9916 8 жыл бұрын
+Michael Clark. I have to take your word for it that there is a law forbidding bidding/leading variation. I would ask, "How often is that rule enforced, especially in World Championship Bridge?" I would not expect FF/CN to be sanctioned for violating that rule, unless others are also. Your point about the A singleton, or Axxx, is a good one, and I hadn't considered that. Are there examples in the data where this specific case occurred, an Ace led from an Axxx and the led card met your prediction? The video's data would need to be reviewed to see. If true, that would be strong evidence, indeed. As for a 96% model accuracy rate, I will concede that is pretty good. However, there may be statistical tests possible which could review the model and provide some statistical muscle. I will do some research and follow up in further comments. For the record, I am not saying the the allegations are false. I'm just saying I would like to see more evidence before I made up my mind.
@tjohnson9916
@tjohnson9916 8 жыл бұрын
+tjohnson9916 As a follow on to my previous, Testing Hypotheses with the Binomial Probability Distribution may prove useful. Copyright 2014, Karl L. Wuensch. A competent statistician could analyze sample data sets to better analyze whether or not the led card's orientation is due to random chance or not. Is there a statistician out there who could do this analysis?
@minnielee49
@minnielee49 8 жыл бұрын
+tjohnson9916 You are right and what is happening here is a lynching!
@johnpearce3684
@johnpearce3684 8 жыл бұрын
good comments - if there is no standard lead or standard place the tray goes or whatever...then i don't think it could stand up in court? BUT the rules do say if you are sending messages via other means...kicking under the table etc. then that is cheating and the rules cover this in a catchall rule. I think they are guilty...next we will be playing on 4 different computers in 4 different rooms.
@endthisnonsense7202
@endthisnonsense7202 3 жыл бұрын
Have they paid back the prize money they stole from the competition doing this by now?
@thearcticlord3920
@thearcticlord3920 Жыл бұрын
Ban them for life. Let all cheats be warned.
@ahmadayman8169
@ahmadayman8169 9 жыл бұрын
pathetic !!! how can community get rid of like those cheaters?? this phenomena begin to spread and bridge federation should take decisive actions to get rid of that
@willisknapick4405
@willisknapick4405 2 жыл бұрын
No question in my mind these guys were cheating. Rodwell was right. I'm no bridge expert but I follow the game. Hard to believe someone who lays down a card or cards in a different way doesn't know what they're doing. Bridge as people have astutely claimed bridge is a blood sport. It is not a gentle person's game. And the better the player and players the higher the stakes.
@ettorefieramosca5460
@ettorefieramosca5460 3 жыл бұрын
the Lausanne court found Fantoni innocent. And the accusations are mere guesswork without value.
@christineturner2290
@christineturner2290 2 жыл бұрын
This video doesn't show innocence. Let's get real here!
@nerazzurro182
@nerazzurro182 9 жыл бұрын
LOL the snitches! -_-
@music-yr8mq
@music-yr8mq 8 жыл бұрын
+Cyber EMR Estrella Agree and what were the snitches doing all the years they allege cheating went on???
@jellyfish-hunter428
@jellyfish-hunter428 8 жыл бұрын
this is useless though, they can just deny the accusation, and no one can do anything
@timbermet
@timbermet 3 жыл бұрын
This is pure fake news, the sports justice has spoken, the real scandal is the ostracism Against this two Great players
@leftsidem5030
@leftsidem5030 3 жыл бұрын
Italians! Anyone surprised?
@vincenzorapisardi6372
@vincenzorapisardi6372 3 жыл бұрын
Ahahaha what do you mean by that?
@leftsidem5030
@leftsidem5030 3 жыл бұрын
@@vincenzorapisardi6372 Experts at cheating
@ettorefieramosca5460
@ettorefieramosca5460 3 жыл бұрын
the Lausanne court found Fantoni innocent. And the accusations are mere guesswork without value.
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