Microsoft Recall Is A Disaster

We've all heard about it by now but Microsoft's new Recall system is an absolute privacy and security nightmare
Full Episode: • #224 His Video Game Ju...
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[@acidiclight]

KZbin, my sweetheart, you tricked me. Made me almost click on this with my audio on and get blasted with my own voice. Gah.

[@flarebear5346]

You are such a great developer. Your game is so good

[@acidiclight]

@@flarebear5346 How could ya think that when it's not out yet? :)

[@Dream_scape47]

Satya Nadella is the worst thing that happened to Microsoft

[@WolfiiDog13]

Nah, the worst thing that ever happened to Microsoft is Microsoft itself 😅

[@acidiclight]

@@WolfiiDog13 Nah. XP and 7 were fine. Windows 8 was the cliff.

[@WolfiiDog13]

@@acidiclight true, their OS was okay-ish, I liked Win7 and previous versions. But the company itself was already prone to these things. I think that they started doing these things around the 8 era, and since there weren't many consequences due to their monopoly, they just kept going..

[@acidiclight]

@@WolfiiDog13 Windows 8 was the start of Microsoft accounts but this was overshadowed by the UI disaster. The spying and excessive telemetry started in 2015 with Windows 10, then it got backported to 8.1 and 7 while they were still in their mainstream support periods. None of this was a core part of the OS in the 2000s, though it can be easy to feel that way since it's already been happening for almost a decade.

[@xmlthegreat]

If Bill Gates or Steve Ballmer could have done any of this in the 90s or 2000s they would have. Billy still controls a lot of what happens at Microsoft. Don't be fooled by the "I'm just retired" shtick. Bill Gates is an asshole through and through, just a different type than Steve Ballmer.

[@reksaiismaiwaifu578]

I'm in the process of switching from Windows 10 to Nobara. I'm ordering a new pc and they're gonna install Nobara on it for me.

[@akam9919]

history is best handled at the application level, not the os.

[@MikeJ4789]

"Nooo. That sounds like a horrible idea." -Microsoft probably XD

[@mner9826]

It's a kind of poetic justice that Microsoft recalled the Recall. But, rest assure, when they are ready they will try to shove it in poor windows users throat, one more time. On that occasion, the perfectionist in me would like to point out to Microsoft that Recall is not complete and it's missing one critical feature which now they have the time to add and benefit EVERYONE (minus of course a very minor exception, their users). The feature is an all time favorite: a keylogger! I mean you take screenshots every 3 seconds, what resources you need to collect a few keystrokes at the same time?

[@potato4uu]

This video was a blast! Not that there was anything new or interesting that i learned, but it was super entertaining and i had quite some giggles when listening to it

[@mz-pd5hw]

In 30yrs using computers I might have encounter a situation where this thing could have been useful, and I can't recall any, I'm just assuming. This is a "cool tech" in the same way making a miniature grenade in the form and size of a suppository is "cool", yea, cool technical achievement, not much more can be said. I see no use at all for this, want to know about a site you saw?, that happen a couple of times a year, well, if only we had some sort of history in our browser... want to improve that?, improve the search in the history, solved. Want to find a file in your system?, if only we had a way to find in a fuzzy way... change in code?, uhm... git?... this is a non-issue not-solved. If KDE of Gnome or Stallman in person wrote it while the EFF hold the keyboard it would still be useless. And that if it consumed no RAM, no SSD nor CPU/GPU, it's a useless security/performance/privacy nightmare. No use at all.

[@acidiclight]

The demo use cases involve things like "find me a presentation in powerpoint that had this brown purse in it." Or "find me that recipe I looked at last week." If you need Recall to help you find a project you were working on, it's a sign you're not organizing your work properly. I've never forgotten where I've put a file on my computer and only remembered a loose detail about it, and I'm blind - you'd think I'd lose things more often. As far as "finding that recipe you lookeed at last week," you know what the recipe was for, right? Google it again. It'll come up. It's very unlikely that it'll just disappear. It's the same for StackOverflow questions. And if you need to refer to it constantly, that's what bookmarks are for. No AI needed. :) All this to say - Recall *as a concept* is neat, but it solves problems we've had solved since I was in diapers.

[@the1trancedemon]

windows is good if used without internet completely. i mean like remove that cable, turn off wifi, turn off any hotspots, stay away from public hotspots. miss the old windows 95, 98, Xp.

[@acidiclight]

That's not an option for most users. You need the Internet.

[@elina.-.11]

I'm happy to switch linux 5 years ago

[@akam9919]

Malware artists actually sounds cool.

[@acidiclight]

I am one. I can only sculpt inside a video game though.

[@owlmostdead9492]

Honestly software development can be stressful enough, why some people choose to do it in an operating system that has been actively fighting its users since 10+ years, I’ll never understand

[@acidiclight]

For me it was accessibility - I had no choice. For others, it's market share. At the end of the day you need to develop for the platforms people use, if you're developing software for any other reason than as a hobby.

[@G33EZ]

The bestest encryption metode VS Screenshot. 😂

[@thingsiplay]

Toggle Even if you toggle it off and Microsoft does not toggle it on through an update. What hinders a malware from toggling it on when needed? And maybe off when not needed, so its less sus.

[@acidiclight]

I'd assume the malware would need to do privilege escalation, whereas Microsoft *wrote* the operating system. They have the highest level of privilege over the entire OS.

[@thingsiplay]

@@acidiclight Most Windows users are using their account with higher privileges. Basically Windows default account has Admin rights (root rights) by default and that's what most users are using on Windows. Microsoft even acknowledge the problem that applications can just change the privileges to higher privileges without password or user interaction. Their system is broken. Yes, it's that bad.

[@luketurner314]

@@thingsiplay Also, it's not that hard to get a command prompt as NT Authority/System (root) in Windows. I believe Admin account on Windows is more akin to sudo (telling the super user what to do)

[@thingsiplay]

@@luketurner314 Admin accounts are as if you would run as root account by default.

[@luketurner314]

@@thingsiplay If you log in with the built-in "Administrator" (verbatim what Windows calls it; the name on the account, not the type) account, yes. But the account you create and give a name to during install/setup, no, only has access to run things as Admin, which is like a normal user being in the sudo group. However I have had occasions where, even logged in with that built-in Administrator account, got permission denied (meaning, requires NT Authority/System access). So maybe Windows has multiple levels of root-like accounts?

[@joseoncrack]

All your base are belong to us.😅

[@TheRealStevenPolley]

first

[@sharkuel]

You have peaked in life. From here onwards it is going downhill for you.

[@thingsiplay]

@@sharkuel It's a good problem to have, honestly. :D

[@markfanter3810]

I've watched about 7 minutes now and I feel like this video has more misinformation than information. First of all, the stored data is not just there to be accessed willy-nilly, it will be encrypted. (No, you can't "crack" the encryption any more than other encryptions) Second of all, using recall is going to require authentication like your password/fingerprint/etc - so malware cannot spam prompts. If we're going to assume that malware has full access, an attacker might as well access everything from your password manager which is 100 times easier, faster, and more practical than prompt-mining and searching for photos hoping to get a hit. Third, calling this "spyware" is just wrong - it is not malicious and it does not send your information to a third party without consent, you might as well call OBS spyware if just recording your screen is sufficient - it loses its meaning in this conversation. I feel like the massive benefits of recall are being glossed over - this is an amazing idea with many applications.

[@themroc8231]

The encryption and the biometric validation through windows Hello are two things they just annonced last week after receiving the ba klash they received, the originally envisioned version was going to include none of that and they literally had to push back ro release date to worknon implementing these features.

[@themroc8231]

Yoi password manager's database is passwird protected and encrypted, until 9 days ago recall wasn't going to have any of that.

[@acidiclight]

This was recorded well before a lot of the research was done about Recall in general. About the encryption: No, it's encrypted at rest. It's taking advantage of BitLocker drive encryption, and that does nothing for you if you have malware or an info stealer on the system. I'll give you that, yes, if you have malware on your system, there are far easier pieces of data it could access. The Recall database is just another piece of data it can grab about you that doesn't need to be there. Again - it's encrypted at rest, that means nothing when you're logged into the system. The reason I consider this spyware is that it is opt-out, and Windows has been known to just decide to reset settings during updates. It is not the same as OBS where I am wilingly using it to record the screen, and it is not running until I deliberately start it. The fact Recall doesn't (currently) send data back to Microsoft isn't being overloked either. They still do send massive amounts of telemetry in general, across all of Windows, and I wouldn't put it past them to decide to add Recall data to that list. There's no convenience whatsoever that I'm willing to have on my system that involves months worth of *everything I've done on my system* being captured into a database that can very easily be accessed by an info stealer bypassing UAC.

[@acidiclight]

@@themroc8231 And that's awesome. I'm just now learning this. Is it still opt-out? Can I disable it completely?

[@markfanter3810]

@@themroc8231 1. This was uploaded an hour ago, so the reply is based on the content of the video, not what happened a week ago. Clearly, this segment has not aged well. 2. I'm certain encryption and authentication was something the developers considered way before any backlash appeared, it was obviously going to be encrypted. The release was set back due to some vulnerabilities found that are *not* as obvious as "encrypt" and "authenticate", so this is expected. ​ @acidiclight This isn't accurate either, the search index is encrypted, it'll require authentication based on Windows Hello or fingerprint, etc - this is double encryption, of course. I stand by my original statement, if a hacker has gained access to both the encrypted files and the authentication there are easier ways to get your passwords. I'm not sure what you mean by "encrypted at rest" - windows authentication is required for access, you cannot decrypt them without being authenticated. Also, this isn't opt-out, it's opt-in - disabled by default. It does not work without Windows Hello(or another biometric) being activated as well. If you want to distrust Microsoft, then continue to the logical conclusion - any windows application could be recording your entire activity, including screenshots, and sending them over to Microsoft. If they're going to lie about Recall data being collected, they can simply collect it while it's turned off.

[@noisetide]

Again and again I feel relieved that I switched to Linux 2 years ago foreshadowing just how horrible Windows will only get with time... As still as Windows is managed by Microsoft the Windows will only get worse and worse... It's been that way since Windows 8.

[@pascal831]

I just installed LINUX yesterday. Goodbye MICROSOFT!

[@Sparky_Otter]

I've been trying linux since 2010, as well as different distros, very recently I made the switch and am very happy with it, and Windows is deleted.

[@discocat2500]

I think the U.S. government will be fiiine. Our government won't upgrade from Windows 8 for some time now 😅.

[@acidiclight]

They upgraded from XP? I didn't see that in the news

[@discocat2500]

@@acidiclight lol, shhh...

[@unkown34x33]

that's true what acid said. most people will stay on Windows, but at least the recall it's not coming with the PC plus s*** for now. after all the backlash . The problem... it's still coming:/ people need to know how to protect themselves

[@acidiclight]

When this was recorded, it was still going to be an opt-out feature. That's changed but that was recent.

[@uuu12343]

Satya Nadella is a liability - period.