TeaTime: Going Into Guild Wars 2 BLIND - With

[@Forgotten_Moon]

1:41:03 Preach is talking to you, Asmongold LMAO 1:52 Why Preach starts to play GW2 5:52 What did Preach think about GW2 when it 1st came out 11:05 Teapot reminds the player how grindy HoT was at 1st launch.... 400HP nerf to 250HP to unlock new spec.... 24:09 and it happened to Preach's story again yesterday Anet... but I guess you were watching bc you made Preach couldn't pull his favorite mount skin until the last ticket lmao 28:57 Talk about the damage output system 30:47 Teapot explains why it is so difficult to balance the classes 35:24 Talk about the elitist within GW2 community... You can check out the comments of those ... not so popular gw2 content creators' channels. There are some elitists who leave comments that look like bullies to me. I'm not sure who they follow or believe in but they like to implement their thoughts to others and deny other ways to play a class even though the vid is about open world content. (36:27 Chat starts to spam certain lines here, I guess there are many disagreements and I hope Preach can notice that as well) 42:13 48:44 Why Preach doesn't really like the raid structure(?) system in GW2 1:01:34 Talk about the issue of the damage meter absent 1:14:50 Preach's raid experience in gw2 so far 1:26:24 Preach's experience of the story so far 1:47:00 1:57:01 lol 1:48:50 Leadership of Anet 2:00:40 What surprises Preach in GW2... 2:10:23 How long would Preach plan to stay in each game for the MMOs project? And how about GW2? 2:14:47 Preach loves mini games in Gw2

[@fluffyfood]

Lei the MVP

[@Forgotten_Moon]

@@fluffyfood Hey! Fluffy lol Good to see you here

[@Forgotten_Moon]

@Vebzzz No problem xD I enjoy watching it a lot so I hope ppl won't miss what I think is interesting as well ;D

[@BaghNakh1]

Yea I also believe the first statement was kinda directed at Asmongold. I mean everyone calls him the "biggest MMO streamer and content creator" yet he has never ever played GW2 which is a solid, consolidated MMO, one that has for certain achieved the test of time. I've heard Asmongold a couple of times talking about GW2 and why he hasn't played it and tbh he has shared some fair takes and some others that I'm like "wtf are u talking about brother". For example, he has said that he has seen GW2 videos/streams and that the game doesn't seem interesting to him at all (which is fair I think, kinda), but sometimes he has said super weird stuff like I remember once he said something like "I have a friend who played (or plays?) GW2 and told me the game is trash because it doesn't respect your time" like wtf? The only thing I kinda agree is the issue regarding games that have inconveniences that are solved through the cash shop (in the case of GW2 being bank tabs, bag slots, etc) which I personally don't like but I feel like the game is so good you kinda forget about it because you're too busy having fun. I think that he probably hasn't tried GW2 because he's too lazy I mean he played FFXIV and left like in the middle of Stormblood (iirc?), probably he's just too hooked to WoW (being his main game together with PoE I think) and also because hes just trapped in the reaction content swamp/quicksand due to how easy and profitable it is, then I assume there is the org, family stuff, health issues, etc, etc so yea probably trying GW2 or finishing FFXIV aren't even close in his list of priorities in terms of content, and that considering as far as I've seen, he's focusing in new MMOs more rather than playing older ones that are already consolidated.

[@Forgotten_Moon]

@@BaghNakh1 yeah, agree(sigh Thank you for the great comment ;D

[@danielj6897]

I started playing GW2 after watching some of Preach's playthrough. I found Teapot while trying to learn some more details of the game. I'm excited to listen to your discussion!

[@arcanemage13]

Glad to hear Preach having a great time in Guild Wars 2!

[@dfg12382]

Finally we get these two together, so nice.

[@JonathanJoestarJuicefest]

Yeah. Dumb and Dumber

[@purepeter4737]

Daddy 1 and daddy 2

[@sandzibar]

Preach identifying boon power creep as problematic almost instantly on trying the game. Funny that.

[@cerealontoast]

Two of my favourite content creators coming together, love to see it!

[@LittleManArmy]

I’m very glad to hear preach. He’s got a lot of experience and isn’t a push over. TeaPot is very knowledgeable about GW2 and has a lot of love, but also has a big personality about the game. He usually persuades others to agree and I like that preach points out the flaws with the game and trying to hear the rebuttals. I think this is needed to improve the game overall and it’s great to see these two!

[@dropsey3007]

i dont trust people with hair plugs to much insecurity

[@wiziek]

@@dropsey3007 so you must got a lot of them?

[@drayosstormrage5885]

@@dropsey3007 Im pretty certain the hair plugs were apart of a Challange, to do with a Money raiser For charity lol, He didnt go out and get hair plugs randomly. his stream kept telling him to get them, And during a charity raiser he had hair plugs as one of them, which his audience delved into, i dont think he was ever insecure about balding lol.

[@MushmallowPlant]

The part Preach said about boons contributing to 60% of others' damage is kinda true. There are so many times in raids when one of the boondps dies and the group be like " Alac/Quick died let's gg" Even though if we look at the DPS meters, boon dps can do like 60% of pure DPS builds, yet we choose to stick to relying on 2 people for quickness and alac and hope they dont die (I know deaths should not happen in good groups).

[@YouTubeChillZone]

Originally, when content had no roles, after someone died, everyone died anyway, and this created a small group of elite who kicked out of the team after one mistake so boons in their current form is the answer to that situation that everyone is needed. Even when your boon DPS dies, it's still worth having

[@andrewmarceau422]

True in raids probably- but my in my 6ish months q-healing- I've died plenty of times and never have we had to gg outside of Boneskinner. (And in the situation I am thinking of, we had someone switch to HS and it was cake). Lets face it- tank or heals die in any mmo and essentially the group is done... so its not as big a worry as it might seem.

[@lordgrey5223]

Awesome. Been watching preaches playthrough and was waiting for his appearance on teatime. Been interesting seeing the game from a new players perspective.

[@dusk1947]

Two fantastic content creators having a great conversation. Being a long time fan and player of both GW2 and WoW, watching preach go in blind has been an enjoyable watch. I've enjoyed how he tried to stay true to the original launch sequence of the game. And I think he's done a pretty good job of looking at the game with a critical eye. Plus watching him stumble into some of those assumptions has been at times comical. But what I most enjoy is the contrast. (Which took place in this conversation, much to the chats dismay.) I have played something like 12 MMO's, with accounts in WoW, GW2, ESO, & EVE hitting thousands of hours. That experience shows they all do MMO's similar enough that it looks the same on the surface. But the moment you delve into any kind of detail, you realize each game is vastly different. So the fun becomes seeing how different Dev teams solved similar problems. You see that in the raid discussion around the trinity or boon systems. Really, neither are perfect, both offer serious flaws. But they were two methods to approach a similar problem set. In fact, the boon system was created as a reaction to WoW's trinity design. One directly influenced the other. And so we can also see how the genera has shifted over time, as later developers learned from the strengths and weaknesses of the previous. It's not to say one is right and another is wrong, rather one is an apple while the other is an orange. Stepping back simply shows the advantages and disadvantages to choices made. And exploring those satisfies an intellectual curiosity as an MMO fan. I will say having played quite a few now, I would have to agree with him. I think what GW2 does best: It allows each player to find something interesting and set there own goals. That is a double edge sword, it's why the game comes of as casual. As the game isn't forcing your path through it. But, it offer tremendous freedom for those who don't need there hand held as they walk to the next ride. I can't say that for any other MMO with the same emphasis, save perhaps EVE. That and I truly adore my WvW

[@StatesideBeast]

It's great to see so much passion for such a great MMO.

[@Onepinkcrayon]

I started playing because of Preach. Really glad for this podcast

[@Zimpwnify]

Loved watching this, thank you

[@tristanreeves5186]

Bad ass teatime I love what preach has said about everything and as always teapot is award winning entertainment, hands down favorite content creator/streamer

[@DropkickGoose]

I 100% want to see a follow-up to this after they finish the other raid wings.

[@taa347]

This was a lovely watch. Having watched Preach for about a decade and having watched Teapot since I started GW2 only about a year or two ago, this was a fun collaboration.

[@torkyn]

The conversation Preach at 41:30 is really interesting to hear now about how needing certain boons may force you onto a build or class that is not fun. I felt this way for ages when Firebrand, chrono or alacren were the main boon providers, it became hard to justify bringing anything else because these classes were objectively better than any other option and not bringing them meant your whole team had a harder time. The one big W since end of dragons came out (and a little bit before if you think about scrapper, mirage and druid getting quickness/alacrity boons) is that ArenaNet recognized this trend and spread out the boon providers to more classes and specializations.

[@triantulas]

made an alacren for that same reason

[@ItsGazareth]

I've been really enjoying Mike's playthrough of the game, so nice to see him start to genuinely enjoy it as well. Have been looking forward to this chat with him as well to get more of his thoughts.

[@maxw565]

Oh my god! I've watched both of you for ages! Finally a crossover episode🎉

[@putridplatypus8736]

24:55 Don't think we didn't see that Smirk Teapot after Preach said it'd eventually get fixed XD.

[@battlebots1]

Great interview, looking forward to more once Preach is even further in!

[@Gomdeezy]

Little late to this one but MY GOD such a great conversation. I love how Mighty get's so excited when he has an epiphany and wants to say something lol. Real genuine stuff and a lot of fun seeing two wrinkly brains going at it for over 2 hours. Love you guys!

[@ilyakusenco8151]

"If you like MMO and you don't play guild wars, you're hurting yourself" is SOOO TRUE man. I just started week ago and i feel like an absolutely goober not trying it before.

[@mrmeepsyt5917]

On God.

[@Scott_Silver]

I’ll give you exotics if you give me your account information like Teapot wanted before he booted half of Hardstuck

[@Scott_Silver]

Please still play the game

[@Jaggith]

Watching Preach try to get gold on one of the time trials for hours, without maxing his glider masteries..... he is going to go batshit for roller beetle races and griffon challenges.

[@crow_buddy]

Great episode. How interesting that Preach didn't seem to care for flying mounts. Maybe it's because he just hasn't accessed them yet? The Griffon & Skyscale are game-changing and so much fun. GW2's mount system and flying mounts (specifically) are probably my favorite aspect of the game.

[@TheAsheron]

They are a grind unless u have gold for griffon. They ruin some of GW2 beautiful world when I just wheeze past everything. Preach is combat and raid mechanic guy. Doesn’t care much about flying beside first few time probably. And he had a bad experience with flying mount in mordemoth fight Or who knows he might get addicted to the race time trial

[@epto]

Skyscale is the worst thing that Anet added to the game, change my mind. It just destroyed so much of the beautiful open world experience and also many great fights such as Dragon's Stand. I personally think Griffon was the perfect flying mount for this game, considering we already had Springer to reach the high ground.

[@crow_buddy]

@@TheAsheron Interesting take! I guess everybody is different. I love the Griffon mount and didn't mind the grind/collection for it. It has a ton of personality and I like how much it rewards skillful piloting. Skyscale, on the other hand, was significantly more effort to get, but at least there's a super cute part of the quest (spoilers for Preach) and that was enjoyable.

[@crow_buddy]

@@epto For sure, I can't disagree that Skyscale totally changes certain encounters. You're spot on. Griffon is personally my favorite mount (by far), but alternating between Skyscale/Griffon depending on the situation works well. Once the Skyscale has all of its masteries unlocked, it pairs super well with Griffon.

[@ChrissW528]

Flying is pretty controversial in wow so that might influence his opinions, it pretty much empties out the open world zones except for a 30 foot radius around the easiest world quests, blizz seems to be unhappy that they can't put the genie back in the bottle, everytime they launch an expac without flying there's a very vocal crowd that complains until flying is implemented, then open world pvp and most non instanced content dies and the rest of the community complains I have played very little of dragonflight even though it seems to be one of their best expacs, this is just my impression from plenty of playtime pre shadowlands

[@Palmecia22]

God damn, i loved your interaction and discussion with preach, one of my favourite teatime tbh

[@danieldasilva2278]

Preach's point on quest hubs as apposed to the more explorative approach is very interesting. As gamers we actually are almost programmed to follow instructions rather than create our own paths, and I like that Guild Wars 2 does the ladder.

[@Werkzeug-100]

Wow players not understanding gw2 because it isn’t exactly like wow (the only mmo they’ve played) never gets old

[@benoitrousseau4137]

I was really looking forward to this tea time. Good job guys!

[@Musicaddictly]

THIS IS HUUUUGE!!! Guild wars 2 is SO amazing, I'm glad it's getting the reignition it deserves.

[@Scott_Silver]

Taken while, even if the first one was better lol

[@samaaaa1]

the price of freedom bit is 100% true. I have multiple level 80 chars with 75 mastery. I often find myself logging in and saying " my hero point runs are done...now what? raids, where, dungeons, no one is running them, fractals? what's that". I guess I just have a hard time finding the drive to do anything, because there's really no sense of direction or reason in the game. at least for me.

[@jenskamen]

loved it! cant wait for him to finish all raids, strikes and addons for a second teatime

[@zenith110]

This was a joy to listen in on

[@MrRaposaum]

One change that I would much welcome in GW2 is if they would increase buff distances by 2x or even 3x their normal range. They already made unique-class buffs into "global buffs" (boons) in order to make a cap for buffs. So right now, even in WvW or open-world bosses, wouldn't matter much if buffs would be wide-ranged because there is alreasy a cap in both buff stacks and number of targets. Then, make mechanics separate the party on the arena and let them come together on windows where they are being healed and/or the mechanic pulls them to one place. Make mechanics matter and, if you don't want to be extreme against powering-through strats/comps, then make main boss mechanics apply a special type of vulnerability debuff that can't be cleansed, but that stacks and will only be removed by not being hit by such mechanics for a time (one minute maybe). This will make healing/mitigating through viable but up to a certain limit. I just don't want most bosses in the endgame being about 25% unique and 75% of the same.

[@Dungeon47]

2:05:27 I remember when Southsun Survival first came out, there was a dev in the match I joined, and I killed him. It was one of the most exhilarating online game experiences I've ever had. I felt like the chosen one, even though it was totally meaningless objectively, the fact that the devs played with us players was so cool. And the fact that I killed one made it all come to life for me, a bit paradoxically.

[@RbDaP]

i had a similar experience in wvw, i pushed agains smc and i saw that anet symbol on that one random ranger on the ramparts and I was like "fuck they know *I'm* here, and *I* exist and matter and I'm gonna take that damn castle now"

[@G.Giorgio]

I agree on the boon system.. don't like it at all. The active combat is great the passive buff system is not

[@MrRaposaum]

Preach is right on the money when he talks about how the boon system kinda streamlines the game (and consequently the endgame community's mentality). I remember how it was when I was learing IBS Strike Missions (one-boss instances) and the leader teaching is was like "Just super-tight stack with everyone and dodge this attack on first part, and then you just be mindful of this other mechanic on phase 2". And he was reight. There is about 10 attacks/mechanics in each boss fight (always about 2-4 overlaping on each phase) but there is only 2 mechanics that are worth paying attention two (and they don't even overlap) because everything else is powered through healing+mitigation powering through it and even supposedly phases being skipped (or lasting too short to be worried about) due to the party DPS being so much higher than what was expected when the fight was designed. I hate when mechanics are entirely skipped/ignored by team composition. And I don't blame players, I blame devs who let it happen.

[@mrmeepsyt5917]

Yea they should work on that.

[@slytouge764]

The game wasn’t like this up to the end of the hot era I remember on fractals back then, everyone played the fights and the mechanics. This week I did a fractal and got scolded because I wasn’t stacked to sit there and face tank. I was surprised because back in the day you actually needed to fight and dodge in the fights

[@aidanfenton4377]

Fantastic Episode here, great insight, loved every second keep up the good work teapot/preach

[@thelfenix]

watching preach's journey made me come back to the game ♥

[@Bloodinhoo]

Nike not getting Preach's point is quite on brand. Preach is not complaining about having these roles of Qdps or Adps, the problem steems from your own dps being way more dependant on the boons being well stacked than your own personal performance. This is a COMMON complaint in the forums and reddit and in-game, where several players, me included, want the game to use boons more as a bonus than as a mandatory thing, and most of your dps coming out of good skill usage and gear. There's nothing wrong with you having like 80% of your potential dps done if you are boon-less, but when the boon system QUINTUPLIFIES YOUR DAMAGE, there's something really fucking wrong with it. Yeah, WoW has tanks, and tanks are mandatory, but your personal dps doesn't depend on the tank pressing his Shield Block correctly. I am completely in favour of buffing personal dps while bringing the boon system down a notch, so you don't really depend so much on the performance of others to deal way more damage.

[@ghostapi874]

I’m curious why you do not want to be dependent on others ?

[@ycl260779]

People forget this game was originally designed so that the boons provide moments of burst dps, then its over - very pvpish in design. THAT is why quickness was originally not a boon (it was its own category of buff), gave 2x attack speed and only ONE class (mesmer, time warp) had the ability to give it to the group on a long cooldown back in vanilla gw2. That is also why on launch people struggled with dungeons and orr because no one understood how powerful boons are. Over time people discovered how to permanently maintain certain boons (might, in particular with phalanx strength originally), and when HoT came out it became EVERY boon. Anet should have but didn't nip the issue in the bud when it first occurred, but I think its too late now - the playerbase has acclimated to it too much that removing it would feel pretty bad - hitting things without quickness already feels pretty unfun.

[@TheAssirra]

​@@ghostapi874 because you have no agency over your own performance.

[@chipchap2007]

love this one, both of you are great

[@LameMule]

Oh nice, I can finish it over here now. Thanks! I only got halfway through the discussion and damn was it interesting. And fun. And just all round enjoyable.

[@Jakerunio]

Something that I think doubly hurt guild wars 2 early on was living world. I know people loved it but it was very contrary to the “play how you like” format. I played since a few months after launch and missed season 1 because I didn’t know it was happening since I was too busy doing the things I wanted (map exploration etc). The fact that living world was there then it was gone meant that if you missed it then you missed out, which means that you absolutely should be doing it while it’s active. Of course, you had to finish the personal story to fully appreciate season 1, too. Obviously the cool part was the content stream, which is now one of the game’s current problems for established players, but the change of approach away from temporary content was really good long-term, I think.

[@xRichhhx]

Even though I play WoW mainly, I think GW2 remains to be under appreciated. Probably due to that classic Anet marketing. And great interview Teapot, you're the only reason I pretty much keep up with the game nowadays lol

[@BigNoseBrit]

Gw2 hands down a great game but I do really want a normal LFG dungeon finder

[@bigmike9486]

Btw raids *were* in the original game! Not the raids you know but they happened in the way of world bosses. Even now, the best group content is in world bosses. The raids ingame are just larger dungeons that give currency. The original structure actually worked we just again like it is said alot of times in the stream, we just didn't get it. The game was meant to be good and it was meant to be beautiful and we are meant to just experience it. That's what I like about gw2

[@theblackspark2644]

Awesome podcast guys, keep it up!

[@xLeopanther]

"If you wanted might, you needed Warriors" Elementalists say hello :D I remember the firefield bursting might builds. And Tempest was also in when the first raids came out.

[@milkdudgamer2951]

Guild wars respects the time u put into the game which is why I enjoy it so much

[@Riaining7]

100% and it gives the players that want to give more of their time, just rewards for that additional expense. It's a win for everyone. Arenanet is the gold standard in innovation and content quality, generally speaking.

[@mrmeepsyt5917]

Completely agree.

[@jgsource552]

my question is if i can earn cosmetics from just playing the game.. I hate how i have to buy cosmetics with real $ in destiny 2, eververse is trash :/

[@MiniDallas000]

​@@jgsource552cosmetics meaning what? Both games have cosmetics you can acquire via activities/achivements and microtransactions, GW2 however let's you trade gold for gems/gems for gold

[@OLBarbok]

As a WoW Player, I can say, not having difficulty settings is a good thing...

[@seafighter4]

1:26:30 The absolute heresy! the first two story steps (lvl 1-20) are the absolute best the story has ever been in GW2. back then, our characters actually had character. After that, they devolved into see-good-am-happy, see-bad-am-angry paper-thin personalities.

[@AntonMochalin]

Yeah some super special kind of love was given to that early progression though I still like mid core progression a bit more (around the time your character chooses their faction and starts doing things as part of the faction - up to Claw Island). But all this just shows how many different things are in the game for different players. I'm really looking forward to doing sylvari and norn story some time because I haven't tried them yet. And some other player would skip that entirely with boost and create one more human male to play WvW with a new build.

[@Riaining7]

You are absolutely right about that. It had an air of personal depth and seriousness, with a story that actually brought you into a kind of 'grown up world', if I may say. Frankly I was disappointed that all the future stories (after HoT&PoF) made it a lot more fantasy-faerytale-like, with less of an air of seriousness to it. I sincerely hope they would go back towards the professionalism and character development of the origin story. Thanks for mentioning that.

[@chipsalom]

I remember beta and launch days as a member of Somnium coming from SWTOR with Kaeyi Dream and Mintchiplol, etc, with Kaeyi getting tight with the game devs and all us guikdies totally getting inside benefits out of it, lol. Kaeyi even got a dungeon boss named after get. Those were unforgettable times! It's been hard to be motivated to come back because the nostalgia for bygone days will be rough! Haven't talked to Kaeyi mint, or most other guikdies for years. It won't feel the same.

[@kesamek8537]

Very good conversation. More of this.

[@timpeterjensen2364]

One of the important parts, i think Preach is kind of missing out on in his playthrought, is all of the EKSTRA content zones have, that are there for collections and achivements, there so much good content there, that it makes many of the zones very replayable.

[@chilliewhk]

I agree that he is probably skipping a lot of cool stuff, but he also has goals set to clear the raids. I will say that if he really enjoys the game he will come back to play it.

[@zengara11]

Dude, I would love if Gw2 borrowed from Lost Ark with the boats and made a bit of a minigame with islands, "the mist" or w/e. Or made the boats guild sized and have a whole map filled with water, with only a little bit of the shore is earth, and water toxic or something with massive bosses that might unlock some guild stuff. Or underwater places that is insanely deep and not toxic but dark or something. Entire cities could be down there

[@xerocell3510]

Maybe that's the new expansion anet is working on...who knows😮

[@KotMatroskin]

Tangled Depths the best map, Anet deserves a big fat award for their HoT maps, yes ❤🎉

[@hubbabubba5177]

I think HoT are some of my favorite maps ever. So vertical and intricate and beautiful!

[@starfly5]

Thanks!

[@zeening]

wdym lol map is fucking god awful, "wait how the hell do i get to this event? COME ONNN I NEED THAT HERO POINT WHERE IS IT!?!?!?!" spend 3 more minutes going down levels "BRUHHHHHHH IT'S AT 10% NOW WHERE THE HELL IS IT I'VE BEEN ON THE SPOT ON THE MAP FOR 5 MINS GOING UP AND DOWN AND EVERY WHICH WAY WHERE IS THIS?!?!!?!?!? how in god's name is that fun lol

[@hubbabubba5177]

@@zeening this may sound crazy, but some people like exploring

[@starfly5]

@@zeening The confusing 2d map and placement of objectives in what were supposed to be hidden or hard to get to areas contributed to a lot of frustrations. But map design and content placement are 2 different things :)

[@UM2636]

As someone that started GW2 San a guardian learning boons became very easy since that class use booms a lot with that said I’m still trying to learn when to use them in group content

[@callmemoe14]

BEST TEATIME EPISODE Pog

[@titorye79]

Great episode. Made me forget about all the work I'm supposed to do 😅

[@alexmarvin3093]

Best inv. Mngmnt: Always log in or log out with a bank run.. stop by a nearby merchant and purchase a few salvage kits… breakdown materials and throw into material storage…. stop by the karma merchant for some gathering picks, axes, and harvesting sickles (I buy the ones that yield extra leather on gathering & organize them in the last bag for efficiency)….. do some crafting to reduce full material storage…… now you can go adventuring (takes about 10 extra minutes if you do this in either of your logins or logouts)

[@Xpoxey]

Tera Online to me had the best Raiding experience. It had the tank in the front taking all the damage and Aggro. While the main dps are on the back of the boss dealing back damage while supports healing everyone. Not to fund of this all stack in one spot

[@euclxd8033]

*too fond but yeah I agree

[@zeening]

gw2 is pretty much the only mmo that does that lol ff14 couldn't be more different but obviously very different gameplay and combat, even old janky shit like LOTRO doesn't do that though

[@zeening]

@@euclxd8033 really? you tried to be petty and correct someone but are so dumb you made a mistake and had to go back and edit it? classic, you realize we can all see you edited it right?

[@woof3065]

49:00 that's actually a very good point, and also exactly how we wvw roamers don't play, everyone plays their own build they like and has fun but not optimal at all when it comes to buffing eachother. I would probably much more likely join strikes / raids if I could just play my own / fav build that I like to play instead of needing to meet all these req.

[@YouTubeChillZone]

To enable this, the game would have to be made so that each class had one build, which would make the game boring meanwhile in endgame context each class has between 3 and 6 build which are meta at this time so why change it

[@chilliewhk]

I strongly agree that WvW was the place that let players be more experimental with builds. And even if the build is the dumbest thing ever, a player can still apply some skill and be mostly effective.

[@woof3065]

@@chilliewhk yes very true, if you know what you are doing off meta builds can be harder to counter. Also for raids / strikes teapot and other tubers already proven that many builds can work well. I also love the Sui Won with all dps core ele and there I believe there where some other variants aswell.. These are examples of players having fun and even if you are not the most efficient it shouldn't matter, unless of course it is your personal preference to play this way. I dunno.. If I didn't have kids and work I would be able to find and or build a relaxed group of flexible happy people, I personally just hate it whenever I end up in a fractal / strike / raid that runs it only to be most optimal for the sake of farming efficient... To me that feels like work.

[@chilliewhk]

@@woof3065 A large part of more high end players is that they're also just good players. I knew guys that could swap to any class on demand and bring the same good performance on all of them. The only thing that detracts from skill is relying and maintaining on some very powerful boons. So the end result is the skill gap that Preach noticed when he saw how experienced groups clear the same content. I ruined the game for myself because I became obsessed with efficiency, and finding myself with guilds that promoted efficiency/skill but were so toxic to each other when 1 person fell behind. Players will optimize the fun out of a game given the right motivation.

[@woof3065]

@@chilliewhk yes exactly! You hit the nail right on the head. This is the kind of content I would enjoy with relaxed people like Teapot and other open minded chill guys.. But I just don't know them and I can't play on fixed appointments. In wvw I experienced the same.. 1 guild I was in first was more try hard with defined roles and there was lots of yelling and toxicity when we lost or someone made a mistake.. In the guild I am now with everyone being roamers and not depending on each other that much it's very chill. Rarely some1 get's mad if he's completely ignored / not helped. I personally always run builds and play in a way that I can help myself, because I know you can't rely on people that much, everyone plays there own game, has their focus on something that might be different from yours. If you want to play very well together you need to be on voice chat and know each other and be friends (to some level) to keep it fun.

[@TFalconwing]

Preach raises a good point about playing specs you don't enjoy. When we started progging HT CM I was on quick herald and I hated its playstyle (i dislike rev in general) and I asked to swap to firebrand which I am much more comfortable on. I caught so much flak from people over that solely because herald was that strong.

[@MightyTeapot]

This is a difficult one, there is a balance between getting stuff done and progressing quickly compared to playing the build you want and it's very much up to each group to figure out how they want to go about doing things. Firebrand VS herald on HT CM is not the end of the world, but there is a huge difference between playing a vindicator vs a power daredevil on HT CM, and if everyone makes large tradeoffs because they prefer a certain build the group effectiveness will plummet. TL:DR Hard content complicates 'play what you want'

[@TFalconwing]

@@MightyTeapot and that's all well and good. But it does make me less interested in playing hard content. I can clear KO CM, but I basically might as well not play DPS on it because I don't play Virtuoso and that is far and away the best DPS build for that fight.

[@MightyTeapot]

@@TFalconwing That's not really accurate, any (preferably ranged, and some melee can do very well too) DPS will be just fine for KO CM, the only time where virt is mega crazy is the first 3 minibosses which is not the major progression point (the mech + sniper is) Balance is understood extremely poorly by the community and gets massively exaggerated.

[@TFalconwing]

@@MightyTeapot Well, perhaps that particular example is something the community needs more education on because when I got title on that fight every DPS was a virtuoso and every week since when we do our CM clear most of the DPS are virtuosos. I have cleared it on DPS firebrand and condi soulbeast and scourge and it was very clear that I was outclassed on most phases by the virts, with the exception of the very first Li phase. At least in my experience and from my observation virt is the ideal choice for this example.

[@MightyTeapot]

@@TFalconwing Virt is the ideal choice, and when it comes to hard content people will usually pick the ideal choice, even if it's only by 5-10% because that's better for the team, and people are trying to do their best for the team.

[@Howluffu]

GW2 Fractals were like precursor of WoW m+

[@xezzee]

Arena Net should make End of Dragons themed Raid.

[@Ernedar]

To add to the topic about power creep.... There is normal player. There is mighty Teapot who is highly professient and doing 10 times normal player damage and then there is special kind of showflake called Lord Hizen going and solo killing everything.

[@peterpopplewell8763]

If preach had pack runes and multiple builds.

[@Forty2de]

Great discussion guys, can't wait for the next installment

[@estousemideias]

Watching this with auto generated subtitles is pure gold. 5:06: "I'm like I've fallen madly in love with girl lost too"

[@Jmvars]

It's interesting to hear about Preach's opinion on boons since I've never thought of it that way, I've always assumed I'll always have the boons and most of the time I do. Searching for two alacs and two quicks has never seemed annoying or weird to me, it's just what you do. What I don't find true (for me) is "playing something I don't enjoy" because my squad needs some buffs. One of the joys is playing a wide variety of builds so I don't burn myself out playing the same thing over and over again. This is made easy because a vide variety of classes can now heal, a vide variety has access to quick/alac. I never mind healing or playing offensive support, I may play alacren one day but alac specter the next, just to keep it fresh. This may seem annoying early when you don't have any alts or other builds set up yet, but once you do you'll enjoy yourself.

[@YouTubeChillZone]

For him it might be a problem just because he's new here and doesn't know how easy it is to alt in this game and have several classes and professions that can do every role. After finishing the entire story mode, dressing a new character with the necessary equipment is a matter of a few hours, not weeks as in other games.

[@TechnoBacon55]

Right, also I feel like players aren’t as rigid as other MMOs. What I mean is, let’s say you want to join a strike but they need quick which your class can’t provide. No worries, you just make/find a new group. If it’s niche content or too early/late in the day, still no problem. You can join the group and tell people that you’d really like to join but can’t do quickness, and just ask if someone would be willing to do that instead. Or, given how alt friendly the game is, if you’re serious about pve you can just have an alt. It’s very unlikely that you can’t cover ANY roles with 2-3 characters.

[@Khaoticsuccubus]

I feel it's kinda missing the point though. It's not a matter of how easy it is to play an alt or not. It's whether you want to. If you're the type who only likes the way one class plays then you're going to be sol in this case. Even ff14 has people like this who only play one job and that's despite that you're character can literally be all jobs at once and many roles share gear. They still don't want to swap from one to another. Which is fine. Everyone has their own playstyle. But, that is a part of what he's talking about here I think.

[@Jmvars]

@@Khaoticsuccubus Then those people are actively hurting their chances to fit into groups, and frankly their understanding of the game as part of the instanced late game content is knowing the game, what classes can and can not do, etc. That's fine though, people can still find groups as pure [I refuse to play any other class I am the Reaper I move for no man] dps and ignore everything else, I just think that's stupid and they should rethink their approach to instanced content.

[@LabernetCA]

I loved this collab!

[@BoardWalkToke]

GW2 is by far my most fav MMORPG atm. I could never get into it due to the poor performance of DX9 in the past but that is no longer an issue obviously so the game flows so much smoother for a more modern experience.

[@Jakerunio]

I love to hear that someone else loves Xera. I always thought it was one of the coolest raid encounters but so many people in the game seem to hate it. I guess they hate it due to difficulty and maybe because of leyling gliding? But it’s often the first boss I showcase to final fantasy players to entice them to try the game.

[@YouTubeChillZone]

Escorts at the beginning of w3 can suck the life out of anyone

[@meganbell3699]

It's a long LONG ways away but I can't wait for the day Preach gets to sink his teeth into the absolutely bonkers Legendary system of this game.

[@NicholasBrakespear]

Speaking as someone who played GW1 last year in its entirety, and started GW2 last November... been having a blast. Love it. I'm up to the mid point of Living World Season 2. But my biggest criticism in terms of the story stuff? The writers desperately, desperately need to get over themselves. No, you didn't write a good character. No, I don't care about Trahearne; he's painfully, obnoxiously and persistently dull. No, I don't care about Braham and Rox. Why would I? They're not Ogden Stonehealer - they haven't proven themselves to me by actually being a vital member of my team, going through actual challenging content and keeping me alive. Half the time, they don't even acknowledge my presence, even during major story beats. What the hell happened to the heroes? Even the core campaign henchmen from GW1 were better teammates; with genuinely entertaining quips, and actual combat competence. And they never forgot who the protagonist was - ME. Us. The players. Destiny's Edge are the worst. And their entire concept is terrible. Their backstory build-up in the dungeon content? "Before you start this dungeon and actually have fun, you have to listen to a couple of these total strangers whine about their personal stuff and put that before the mission". Great work, guys; really compelling "heroes" - who abandon each other repeatedly because of personal stuff that has nothing to do with the player. And the real insult at the end? The big celebratory "you defeated Zhaitan" cutscene? Shows you walking with Destiny's Edge. Not you walking with your actual human party members, if you're playing with friends as I am - just you and Destiny's Edge. Even though they did nothing (oh, sorry, Thackery stupidly cut a rope from the bottom and nearly died for no reason, good job Thackery), and even though they never once invite you to actually join their team. The game's writing and story content is absolutely at its best when it's not self-indulgent, and either focuses on the player, or focuses on the big epic stuff. You know why everyone loves Tybalt? He's a bro. He's not smug, he's not a Mary Sue, he's just another dude who seems genuinely thrilled to be working with you, talks directly to you, and serves as a conduit for adventure instead of a "please wait until we've stopped talking" exposition dump. And the saddest thing? 90% of the core campaign, and most of the living world stuff I've done so far, would have worked absolutely fine... with none of these "hero" characters. All it required was an NPC to send the player on a mission, and let the player discover the story themselves, and directly interact with the characters associated with it. The story never needed these overtly writer-ego-driven inserts to act as middlemen. Didn't need to make the player the "Commander", and then think it's fine to ignore them. Just needed to acknowledge their agency. Needed to let them do some major story beats... alone. No hand-holding. Just say, have the Queen or the Pale Tree or whoever ask the player - as an independent but dependable adventurer - to go deal with something, to go check it out. To follow a thread. That's all it needed. Imagine, for example, if nobody knew the origin of the zombies in the core campaign. Imagine if nobody knew Orr had risen. Imagine if you, alone - because none of the major players were willing to divert resources - had to go on a long journey to the south, down the coast, to find the origin... and you, as the player, discovered this lost place, and had to report your findings, and find a way to convince the various factions and races to join forces. Imagine how much more compelling that would be, than having Trahearne tell you "Oh, I totally already knew all about Orr, and I know exactly what to do next, and I know how to use this magical sword, and this prophetic dream is all about me uniting the factions, and it's my calling to become the marshal."

[@seanmcmahon165]

Preach is living below the poverty line but living the dream

[@thovarisk8699]

so glad to see preach here

[@dahobdahob]

The hardest part of explaining GW2 to an existing MMO player is that /waaay/ to many people think "MMO = Progression Raiding". That is not GW2 and that is the reason I still play it.

[@chaleowin7732]

The issue I have with GW@ is I can't find friends to play with. I also suffer from fomo and it feels like I've missed so much when I don't play for 1-2 years.

[@jumpkicking]

The biggest issue with raiding is that for certain bosses you can't run certain builds. Unlike other mmos, the build is highly specific to the classes specializations, however for many classes, some specializations and the base of the class can have many very meta builds. Builds are not just trees and classes, gw2 is the most versatile game and each "class" can have like 8 meta builds, each requiring a LOT of investment EACH! In wow and ffxiv you can just switch between your tank and dps gear with minor variations in stats that are just as readily available as prior, but in gw2 you need a high investment into ascended gear, infusions, ascended weapons, ascended accessories and grinding the whole world to unlock your skills and then they are all HIGHLY specific to a specific build. There are a LOT of different stat combinations and getting the exact ones you need is a massive pain. Imagine you've grinded for a whole set of condition damage gear, with some alacrity pieces, not all of the set is directly transferable in 100% of cases. Then you are suddenly told you need to switch class half way through a raid because the boss phases so consistently that condition damage cannot ramp up enough and you're dps will be none-existent... You don't have a power build and maybe your class doesn't have a power build, with the only other builds having some highly specific support stats... you actually cannot continue. Bosses can have big/small hitboxes which dictates how much dps your build can do, in certain cases people need VERY niche builds such as the notorious "hand kiter" in the Deimos fight that only works for that one fight in a single raid. The meta is constantly changing and unlike other mmos where your class/build is just a bit worse or better... in gw2 your build just changes entirely and you may need to often change your entire gear. At least for pugging which is more elitist/meta-hungry than you will be told, by anyone. What is good about gw2s builds is that they more often than not absolutely and utterly change everything about the class, all the skills you use, all the weapons you use, the roles you have and all the gear/weapon requirements. It's not like wow or ffxiv, it is far far more verstaile than any other mmo. Every expansion gives all the classes a new specialization which can spawn 1-3 new builds. You'll always need new weapons for alternate specs in a class. Number of high meta builds per class at this time: Revenant has 4. Guardian has 3. Warrior has 3. Thief has 4. Ranger has 3. Engineer has 4. Necromancer has 2. Mesmer has 5. Elementalist has 5. This is the current meta builds, but each class has a few more other builds that are still perfectly viable, but not in the eye of the meta. They can still preform very well too. The issue is not all of these is viable for all of the bosses of all raids. Many will suffer extremely bad performance and even be obselete from fight to fight, and this is highly disappointing. Some builds like deadeye thief is wicked fun and cool and can hit massive numbers. You turn into a sniper and you can use a range of tools to optimize and protect yourself in your given position.

[@danmozartino2864]

There is a huge influence of gw1 i to gw2, in the sense that gw1 was a classic that had a loyal base so Arenanet could not go to a wow copy. It’s the freedom, the story, the heritage. Dificult to put in words. Gw1 is Gw2 DNA.

[@Akeche]

20:00 It's just... wild to me to imagine someone who is so put together, with a whole-ass team behind him. That somehow, no one stumbles onto the wiki. Looking for a games wiki is almost the first thing I do while installing a brand new MMO.

[@elifaletgutierrez9141]

He's said it has to do with experiencing things for himself instead of going to a third party site that tells you what to do. Pretty sure it's a choice, not oversight; he even advocates learning fights/mechanics on your own if you're able instead of watching how to videos for boss/dungeon/raid stuff. Personally i don't use wikis either unless there's something specific I want to do and can't figure out how to do it. Haven't played gw2, but definitely seems like a design fuck up if the entire community says you need to look at the wiki to figure anything out; again, to be fair, I haven't played gw2 so not sure how much of that is just hyperbole.

[@IchiExorz]

About s1 of the living story, I actually quite liked when the story didn't necessarily mean there had to be an entirely new zone. I liked when currently existing zones had things happening to them and thigns changed in the zone. But at the same time i'm not a fan of old content being replaced or how wow does it, make different instances for the same zone. Also I think the Karka event was one of the coolest things Anet did back then (if you ignore the lag in LA hahah.) and it's kind of a shame they don't really do things like this anymore alltho it makes sense why they can't.

[@LiveLuckyGaming]

THIS IS AN AWESOME COLLAB!

[@Khronos06]

Such a great talk!

[@Muten1988]

Surprised he still going at it. I gotta say, watching a WoW talking head trying to figure out guild wars 2 is really entertaining lol

[@NecroViolator]

Cant wait for Halloween :D. Love playing Halloween in GW2 !. Awesome fun !.

[@Snebzor]

I loved Preach's comments on the release cadence.

[@exephen]

42:11 Somes people like me or one of my guildmate LOVE being the boostpack and give the top DPS meter role to others. I was a monk in Gw1 and loved to be a boon provider.

[@Caernunnos]

A good idea that would fix the issue of boons being too strong and too necessary would be to lower their efficacy and buff base damage and tanking across the board

[@YouTubeChillZone]

It was like that in the beginning for two years and the game was too hard you could also lead to a situation where you give players too much power and then it would be easier than now = boredom I mean it's hard to balance Personally, I would bet on more interactive opponents and leave the current system unchanged More mechanics where you have to split up and enemies that move constantly and attack, forcing me to dodge and move The current problem is that the boss just stands there and waits for him to die and that's why support is so strong because you can stack on the boss whit little to no consequences

[@markup6394]

1:09:40 --- Heh, "chrono jail", I remember... except me, a chrono tank back then, locked myself in and threw away the keys XD

[@Nr4747]

Back when wing 2 was (relatively) current content, Matthias would actually be quite difficult, much more challenging than Slothy for experienced groups. I had a static raid group and we would either completely stomp the entire raid (all 3 wings) or get stuck on Matthias for an hour or longer - for some dumb reasons.

[@rept7]

I'd need to see the source, but if the power difference between an average player and a player that knows all the optimizations is a difference of 10 times DPS, that explains a LOT for why the game's group content is as painfully easy or desperately requires playing meta. I just want to do group content that is fun and exciting without having to stick to a rotation and steal a build.

[@drswaggenheimer2527]

Unrelated but I left GW2 after HoT, came back pretty recently. I've been enjoying my time playing too, it's a fun time to play the game.

[@Insig385]

its a bit funny hearing talks of making raids accessible and baby steps because I vaguely remember back in the day when the community called for ultra hard content and for ppl to git gud, and im pretty sure ppl were going to scream bloody murder if any raids were more hand-holdy. I did take like a 6 year break tho so I dunno if that sentiment have turned around, and maybe back then it was vocal minority? XD I'm glad there are strikes now tho, as raids are not only hard but LONG. that was a thing where working adults don't necessarily have 2-3 hr chunk. and strikes now are the more easily accessible ver of raids I guess lol one thing I love about gw2 is that freedom teapot mentioned actually- and this applies to raids or any hard or easy content in the game. I want to play/try/explore the maps and various types of content, I dont want to be told that the only way I can play content X is if I've farmed for gear Y. there are various ways to earn ascended gear, im not locked into grinding something if I don't enjoy it. so yeah there is less grinding in some sense, which I really appreciate because now I can take that time and do something else I do enjoy, that prob can also give me that ascended gear I need. legendaries, the grindiest thing to work toward - is entirely optional. if I want to set a goal for myself, I have a choice to do so, and not because someone else told me I have to in order to play some other content. Thus, its actually a pro for me that if i dont want to raid, i dont *have* to (tho i l did raid n really enjoyed it back in the day) as a busy working adult, I can't appreciate this enough another thing to note that I liked about gw2 IS that they are willing to change things and try new things. games that just does the same on repeat gets really stale, but like, having stuff taken out isn't great either when ppl just got used to it. I don't play enough mmo long term to know I guess, but to give new experiences to players for over 10 years, doesnt it NEED to do diff things? I'm reminded of long running franchises having to basically reboot itself because ppl got tired of the same old (god of war, assassins creed, tomb raider). gw2, wouldnt it need to innovate if they want to have the game keep going...? i do understand the "having a consistent vision" but I feel like having new and different content doesnt means it's bad. even with raids, I don't see why raids have to be consistent across thd diff wings, because then they just be almost re-skins of the same thing? I could be just not understanding I guess, I played gw2 several years ago, came back recently so I basically don't really know what the new issues are 😂

[@kadmodir]

I'm not gonna lie, i've hopped into GW2 and i LOVED leveling, i almost always make a new character when i come back, then i get to max level, and i run into what preach is describing, the "okay...what now?" and i end up quitting, i never even knew about fractals, i liked world content, and i basically treated GW2 the same as FFXIV where i just hop in, catch up on the story, and then leave, not even knowing about all this content, because the game is probably *too* sandboxy, like just a minor "hey this is a thing you just unlocked, here's a little tracker to where this content is, YOU DONT HAVE TO, just here's where this is"

[@marthdaeglin]

Even after ten years playing GW2 I still feel like boons aught to feel like a cherry on top of the build sundae. Instead it feels like we're always chasing the biggest cherry and our gear and skills and rotation are just a touch of ice cream on top of the cherry.

[@Quiet_9]

this is such an amazing interview - but big lol at what I interpret as Preach suggesting that "70th percentile parses" were average. they're percentiles - average is always going to be the 50th percentile. if you look at the 25th percentile parse of demonology (median spec) on H Volo this tier, it's about 120k, while a 75th percentile parse (same fight/spec) is 195k. doing double another player's damage is pretty normal in wow, especially with gear, augmentation evokers, PI, etc.

[@woof3065]

32:00 the way you balance around this is normal and hard mode

[@Keinish79]

Nice time to have some tea

[@Alexrex77]

How nice to see two Englishmen having some tea time together ;P