MiiCoffee Apex Full Review - Gaggia Classic Pro, hold my beer!

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

Featuring the Apex: miicoffee.shop/products/miicoffee-apex-espresso-machine?sca_ref=5020819.h0Rppu1J1D (affiliate link)

[@joachimemand1687]

Thanks for the great video. All videos so far mentioned "only 1 second of pre-infusion", how can you adjust the duration of water flow during pre-infusion?

[@notshaurmal]

how do I pick this up in India Tom?

[@Burns4k]

Thank you especially for measuring the amount of water added during steaming. It's a bit too high for my liking at ~20%. Machines with a steam boiler or a more potent thermoblock will only add 11 to 12%. That, together with the missing OPV, the wrongly implemented preinfusion (pressure release leeches the puck) and the after tax+shipping price (in germany) with questionable warranty make it less interesting for me than I initially thought. But I would surely love to see it improved upon.

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

I agree with you on that one. The Sage Dual Boiler adds just 20ml per 200ml, in 45 seconds of steaming, so just 10%. That's the best I've seen so far. To be fair though, I steamed for a larger cup here, probably more like 250-275ml, so 40ml would be more like 16%.

[@DuBstep115]

1 year warranty is huge red flag while all the others offer 2 years. No trust in their own product

[@protofant]

Long story short: I ordered a machine. One day laster I realised I live in Europe and the power net is 230V where the machin is currently build for 110V. The Miicoffee support was fast enough to cancel my order before shipment. Here comes the news: Miicoffee didn't left me in this sad situation or forced me to buy a power converter. Actually they said they are working on a 230V EU version which might be ready end of Q1'24 and might be available on Amazon (in the EU).

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

Yes, I have a 230V version. So, they're coming soon. Cheers!

[@carrscoffee]

I have v1 and absolutely love mine haven't had any problem 2 yrs in and if something does happn I'm all in on v2. The price and features make a terrific espresso

[@ProPowerMax]

Just got the machine, thanks to your review. I have added an OPV which is super simple takes like 10min. Now i have basiclly a Rancilio Silvia Pro for 1/3 the price. Yes i know i doesnt have the brand name and also not the spare parts, but thanks to your tear down i know it uses quality parts and MiiCoffee was also very quick to respond to my mails, so maybe they will provide spare parts in the future. All in all, it is quite potent machine for the price, i'm really happy with it. Thanks!

[@simonmonty7171]

I believe V2 has an opv now

[@moadidaom5435]

how to add an opv?

[@Kriszu72]

Hello, how did you route the plastic tube of the OPV in the water reservoir? As I see the housing is closed from every direction. Thanks!

[@DutchBigTwinLover]

Hello Tom, thanks for the indept video. I read you live in Germany? I live in the Netherlands, so close by. 🙂 I have contacted MiiCoffee to get my hands on this machine. They told me the machine will come available around spring for customers in NL through Amazon. I think this machine is a lot of bang for your buck. Thanks again and keep up the good work.

[@coffeecove7058]

Thank you for the videos on the Mii. I ordered the Turin Lagato and can't wait to get it.

[@sofiaclemente7925]

Would love to see a walkthrough of a dimmer mod or gagguino mod on this machine!

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

Haha, see Kafmasino.

[@Gatorone30]

Great Video! I am just starting out in my espresso journey. I am running a De'Longhi ECP 3420 in advanced mode and love it. For $89 bucks at Sam’s club you can’t beat it for the price. I’ll have to keep an eye out for one of these in the used market place. There seems to be a lot of people that get an espresso maker and don’t like it or never use it.😊

[@Films-vm4uh]

Hi, when did you purchase yours at Sam’s club? I’m thinking of getting the ecp3420 as well and that’s a great price!

[@ChrisRoeder]

Thanks for these MiiCoffee reviews as well as posts about the Dedica and the Gaggia. After years running pods on the Dedica I bought a better grinder, KNGrinder 4. I gave in after two weeks and bought MiiCoffee. So far, I’m enjoying it and the coffee very much. I’m still dialing it in, but am getting something I might actually pay for.

[@svx94]

Thanks for the excellent review! Espresso starter here, and coming from Flair, I'd like to see MiiCoffee re-build this machine properly, fix the fit and finishing issues, add a OPV. I also suggest a bottomless portafilter with silicon add-on. I am willing to pay $200~ more for the facelift. I think the Apex II could be my first semi-automatic :)

[@simonmonty7171]

Well this video is about the first version of this machine. They just came out with version 2 and it does have a few updates.

[@protofant]

Thanks for linking the Shop. It is quite a bummer to pay 723€ with tax and shipping to Germany 😢

[@protofant]

Today I headed back to the Miicoffee shop and viola ... tax are now included in the machine price which saves around 150€. Now the machine is "only" 600€ in sum (with shipping to Germany) and I am that close to order it 😗🤏

[@JO-on6ky]

be careful with voltage@@protofant

[@Tokoroegao]

Are you sure that they did not just defer the import taxes to you? Meaning, you would have to go pick it up and pay your fees then? @@protofant

[@protofant]

@@Tokoroegao Maybe they defer the taxes, maybe not. I already ordered stuff from around the world with 'tax included' and they were not deferred to me de facto. Your point is valid after all, it could be a risk.. If you're from Europe, wait till March or end of March. Currently Miicoffee only ships 110V machines. They promised to offer EU versions for the 230V power net via Amazon in about two month.

[@petes_CE]

Nicely done! Very comprehensive review.

[@protofant]

Just ordered the machine on Amazon Germany for 559,00€. The product description is not flawless, there no mention of an EU plug but I'll check it out. I'm excited to get the machine, which has not even a shipping date by now (it's listing is that fresh).

[@Thedaniewl]

Could you make a comparison test, like you did at the end of the video, comparing a PID machine VS a non-PID machine, so that we could see the reality in temperature fluctuation between the two systems ? Great video ! Subscribing !

[@TonysRacing600]

Seconded, I would like to see that as well

[@Baunmwolle]

Kaffeemacher have done many tests like that in basically every machine they reviewed if you are interested

[@Thedaniewl]

@@Baunmwolle will definitely check it out. Thanks !

[@frankpeutz9106]

Hi Tom, like your video on this espressomachine. Question though, living in Europe, how or where to order this machine? Can't find a source ....

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

Check the description. I have a link there leading to their website. Cheers!

[@jeet-Seattle]

Another beautiful informative video . Thanks Mr Tom

[@alexs1208]

Nice review!! Thank you for your job!

[@carrscoffee]

I just bought this machine but the turin modle.. don't think there is a difference buy I'm so excited to get it!!! Great reveiw thank you for showing all the features maybe it will be easier now that I have seen this. I payed $499 USDD

[@micheltalbot2540]

Excellent video! This is a methodical and thorough presentation of the capabilities of that machine. I would like to know if there is any way to set the water flow at 5 ml/second without using an equipment such as yours.

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

All you need is a little screwdriver and a scale to measure your water.

[@Bryzgyman]

Im planning on upgrading my setup in april. I was pretty sure about the GCP. But now when i read about the problems with flaking boiler coating, lack of pid and other stuff, i started thinking about the Bambino plus. And now this thing comes out and i really dont know which machine i should buy 🤔 The miicoffee is currently not available in my country but that might change in the future.

[@tulenik71]

Bambino is even less controllable than GCP. If you want to use larger variety of beans/roasts, especially light roasts, you really need temperature control (PID) - surprisingly, pressure control can be done by playing with grinding (finer grind = higher flow resistance = higher pressure given the same flow) or with flow control (higher flow with the same grind = higher pressure). This one, any Lelit with PID or Profitec Go. Actually, for steaming this one is the best.

[@Bryzgyman]

@@tulenik71 i bought the Bambino because it was on big discount. So far im really satisfied with it. Its a big step up from DeLonghi dedica which i used for many years. Profitec looks amazing,i like the features And it might be my next step when the Bambino dies.

[@rpaUkes]

Great video Tom. Hey one thing, it appeared to me that during the pre-infusion test, it looks like the 3-way solenoid and released the pressure during the preinfusion wait time. Is that the case? That would be an odd way to pre-infuse. Seems in order for that tiny bit of preinfuse water to actually penetrate into the puck, you would not want the pressure to be released. Can you clarify if this pressure release is happening during pre-infusion? Thanks!

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

You're right. It's a bummer that the valve opens during the pre-infusion pause. It would be better to just stop the pump.

[@matesomogyi6545]

@@TomsCoffeeCorner ok, I didn't check before comment. :) same problem here. The thing is, that on the predecessor of this machine, it doesn't open. So it should be just a config, I hope.

[@BASSlineXX1207]

I'm very torn. Thought about getting a Gaggia Classic for the longest time but now this one is on my radar. Feature wise, I'm sold. But the Gaggia has proven history and good availability for aftermarket parts/mods and a community in case you wanna fix something yourself. What are your thoughts? What do you estimate the support for the miicoffee machines to be in general in the future? Thanks and keep up the great work! Amazing channel!

[@evmdafilipino]

@16:13 how long was the machine on during this test? It’s set to 100 but the probe reads 94. The machine takes 15 mins to fully warm up to temp although the PID will be at whatever temp it’s set to within 5 mins. The machine definitely does not warm up to temp in the 5 mins advertised. Please reply, will be huge if the PID temp is 6 degrees inaccurate

[@VRGalaxy_762]

Interesting IPD heat test at the end. So, whatever you set it to, it's actually pulling at 6 degrees less than that. So, even if you set it to 100C, it's only really pulling at 94C. Might as well set it to max. Also, just curious, how long does the group head take to heat up each day?

[@hansjorg7828]

Thanks Tom for the very detailed video, as always. You hit the nerve, already over 170 comments....The better (newer) is the enemy of the good. It was only a matter of time before the Chinese conquered the market. See, for example, the DF coffee grinders. On the other hand: Is a “quality product” like the “Niche zero” produced in England or in China? 🙂 This machine really has a lot of features at an unbeatable price. The features are more comparable to a Lelit | PL 92 T Elisabeth | V3. What do you all mean ?

[@JMWexperience]

This was very interesting and informative. Thanks for your in-depth review. Now I’m thinking about trading in my Breville Bambino plus for one of these.

[@BigJasquach]

Comparison with the Dedica perhaps?? :)

[@alejandroperezlopez3157]

Thanks for the video, very interesting. I want to ask you about the espresso extraction in general. I had understood by baristas that a perfect espresso is normally between 25-30ml in 20-25 seconds, but that’s considering that is only one cup. As you are using a bottomless filter, that does change? I thought that you should be getting between 50-60ml in 20-25 seconds as you are having actually “2cups”

[@naseausderhuette]

I’m interested in the answer as well 😊

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

I find that's a misnomer. For me, an espresso is always 16-18 grams in, 30-40 grams out, in about that range. And I don't split it. It's all for me, lol. Then I make a second one like that for my wife.

[@alejandroperezlopez3157]

@@TomsCoffeeCorner thank you :)

[@naseausderhuette]

@@TomsCoffeeCorner thanks! I was wondering that when I ordered the IMS cup in your description but figured I can just split the shot if necessary

[@georgiosgalanopoulos7379]

Stainless steel boiler is the best feature of this machine. Way superior to the any other machine in this price range. Gaggia Killer

[@scottscottsdale7868]

Is it made well? Time will tell. Gaggia has been doing coffee machines for 100 years or more. How long has MiiCoffee ben doing it? I don't care what country the machines is made in. I mean espresso machines are very simple engineering systems and not like a super computer or something. But, it is the not skimping on the details that matter. My Gaggia Classic is not the Eco but I have only had it for a few weeks, and my grinder is gong to be upgraded soon.

[@surfacepro5519]

The review was good, impressive, and thorough, although I still have reservations on this machine. My concern is the serviceability of the machine. What if I need a gasket replacement, or something to upgrade too. What if the machine needs servicing. The gaggia is an established machine with a well open and large established market for servicing and upgrading. The APEX, I assume is fairly new and therefore does not have an established market base of support. Am I wrong ?

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

@@surfacepro5519 it’s actually not very new. It’s around 6-7 years old in fact. It’s been sold under different markets, however. Is popular in eastern Europe and in China. But you are right, that there are likely not many spare parts in the western world.

[@surfacepro5519]

@@TomsCoffeeCorner As an example, where would I get a new gasket, assuming that I will need to replace the grouphead gasket at some point down the road ? I was unable to source it just for my comfort level before considering the purchase of this machine.

[@NcCoimbra]

micoffee apex vs kafmasino one machines are almost the same.... ok My real question and that of many people is: Is kafmasino due to automation really worth it? Or is it just a coffee machine with a gaget? It would be interesting to see a video in the future demonstrating the real automation capabilities of kafmasino / Gaggiuino vs micoffee or other similar machines. I look at kafmasino one as a future way forward due to the potential of automation am I right?

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

I already did a video on the Kafmasino. It's the same machine, except the Kafmasino has the smart features and no manometer.

[@EricSelle777]

Great video and great channel. Totally off topic, but are those Mykita frames?

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

Do you mean my glasses?

[@EricSelle777]

@@TomsCoffeeCorner yes!

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

No, they're not Mykita, but they are german. ic-berlin.@@EricSelle777

[@eduardofcgo]

I guess the flow limiter would be more cumbersome if you change from single shot to double a lot. But otherwise it seems like a simple way of obtaining that declining pressure of the levers

[@johanlans7260]

Hi Tom, excellent video. I had a question. How did you determine the 5.5 ml flow rate ?

[@colinc167]

It’s in his other video. He weighs and times the output at 20 seconds and then divides the total weight/ml by 20 to get ml/second.

[@phillipphan1394]

Wow. Looks promising. Does it come with pressurised baskets also for use with regular pre ground? And how does that perform against gcp and indeed against espresso ground?

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

No, just non-pressurized. I think it's a better performer than the GCP, because it offers consistency. But the GCP can pull some great shots, too.

[@HTownIron832]

How would you compare this to the Crossland CC1? To me it seems like a very close comparison in features and steaming, with the Crossland being a bit older in design.

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

I've never used the CC1, but I've heard good things about it!

[@bryancampbell9312]

Hi Tom, can you share what bottomless portafilters fit the Apex. Thank you

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

Just a normal one. I use the Neouza one. Cheers!

[@giorgossfakianakis7163]

Great vid! It seems like I cannot order the machine in Europe. Does it come in another name inside the EU?

[@sunrise-vx5ld]

I think cm300l

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

I think you can. Check the link in the description, or use this one: miicoffee.shop/products/miicoffee-apex-espresso-machine?sca_ref=5020819.h0Rppu1J1D (affiliate link)

[@giorgossfakianakis7163]

@@TomsCoffeeCornerthanks for the response! Actually I live in Greece so it’s not even in the shipping options from the MiiCoffee site. I found it on a Chinese site but the cost is significantly higher. Thanks again.

[@xAzarathx]

Nice review Tom, as always! I have some small remarks if you don't mind 😃 Didn't you notice a slight bitterness due to high temps? Looks like the temperature is increasing quite a bit during the shot, from 92 to 97-98 (PID set to 96). How about switching from steam to brew? Would be nice to see how the temperature looks like when you make the switch.

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

The temperature was held steady around 93-94 degrees during most of the extraction - just towards the end did it curve up. This happens in most of my measurements of espresso machines, I am thinking because towards the end the puck is spent. No, it wasn't bitter. Cheers!

[@sk-abc]

One thing that made GCP unbeatable in my case was Gaggiuino

[@JereBearMusic]

Here watching this currently because there are still common reports of boiler coating flaking on the new Gaggia Classic.

[@maximuswlrd]

I thought they went with uncoated after and ditched the coating

[@JereBearMusic]

@@maximuswlrd nope still happening

[@kendallcurtis7863]

@@JereBearMusic Do you know if the new brass boilers have a coating?

[@aruppert314]

Really thinking about getting this (v2 Legato in the US now) over the Profitec Go because of the price and dedicated thermoblock for steam. Is this likely very comparable and worth my money rather than getting a much more expensive and possibly better supported machine?

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

I mean, the Go is just a single boiler with PID, for $1k. That's too much imho. This has dedicated heaters for steam and extraction, which is a big advantage. You just don't get the pedigree of german engineering.

[@Nickhaja]

Moin Tom, danke erst einmal für deine tollen Videos! Ich überlege diese Maschine zu kaufen. Nun soll es eine V2 geben mit OPV und auch designtechnisch aus meiner Sicht ansprechender. Hast du vor über die V2 ein Video zu machen? VG!

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

Oh, das weiss ich noch nicht. Die erste Maschine war doch irgendwie kein Hit, also weiss ich nicht ob die 2. Resonanz findet. Die Maschine ist richtig gut fuer den Preis, aber halt No-name.

[@_Esel]

Great video! It really seems to be a nice machine with great value for money. Did the machine come with different power cables or did you have to use a converter? Since MiiCoffee is selling the Apex exclusively on their website with shipping from the U.S. this has to be considered I think.

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

AFAIK, they ship from China. Mine has an EU plug. Cheers!

[@_Esel]

Well, the more you know. Thanks!

[@shitoyamada2642]

MiiCoffee Apex is the same as Gemilai CRM 3007, and 3007 has many different versions such as 3007I, 3007D, and 3007G,... and I am still confused when talking about them 😂

[@cujo3097]

42 grams of added water in the steaming process seems like a lot... am I way off base?

[@cristinmarius]

In Hungary and in Romania this types of espresso machines are marketed under the AVX brand, though this one, the DB-1, is not available in Romania anymore. From the impressions I've read on the local forums, people talk that the steam wand is weak and the fact that this is made in China. Feature wise, it's similar to what Lelit PL41TEM offers, but cheaper. If you can, could you do a comparison between the two machines ? Thanks!

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

I like that the Anna is italian, but that's about it. It only has a single boiler, and an odd 57mm PF. I don't think it compares to the Apex, besides having a better pedigree.

[@sympathetic_crustacean]

That was my first impression as well: this looks like a Lelit.

[@sweidyw]

Hello thank you for your awesome videos what do you think of the HiBREW semi automatic expresso machine 20 BAR , thank you in advance

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

Several people have asked. Maybe I'll have to buy one and test it out.

[@TomJones-tx7pb]

Nice review. Imagine if this machine had bluetooth flow and pressure output that you could log to a phone app (even temp hitting the puck as a plus). Imagine if you could set a maximum pressure as well as maximum flow. Love the SS boiler/thermoblock combo. At the price I prefer this over everything else I have used. My Flair 58x is more expensive when you add the cost of the SEP, frother, and kettle. Anyways, I have that bottomless portafilter and it is fine, but the Flair equivalent looks great with the ability to easily use a dual or single spout at any angle you want. Also, if you want a cup like the cappuccino cup you used, only clear, you can find on Amazon ones made out of dual wall borosilicate glass.

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

Well, the Flair is super cool because you can adjust the pressure on the fly, and you get that haptic feedback yourself. But yes, you cannot froth with it, unfortunately. You can on a LP, although I've had a heck of a time doing it. The Apex offers a lot for the money, that much is clear. Cheers!

[@BigBenAdv]

As Tom has mentioned, this is basically a rebranded Gemilai CRM3007G espresso machine. What you're looking for is also available as the kafmasino ONE - which is basically the same Gemilai machine with the 'smart' integration not unlike a Decent.

[@JanosZakarias]

@@BigBenAdv just a slight correction, this is the CRM3007L, not the 'G'. I have the G, which does not have the adjustable pre-infusion, has no pressure gauge and has a smaller thermoblock.

[@TomJones-tx7pb]

The main "problem" with the Flair is that temperature control is an art. And yes, the haptic feedback is really nice as you can adjust for the behavior of the puck on that day.@@TomsCoffeeCorner

[@BigBenAdv]

@@JanosZakarias Whoops, my mistake there. This is indeed the "L" model. Interesting that the 3007L is slightly cheaper than the 3007G on Aliexpress though.

[@dominuspolux]

I would like to buy one... what botomless portfilter do you recomend? there are a lot in amazon

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

Hi there! I use the Neouza one. It works well for me.

[@sligor85]

Temperature stability measurement would be nice Edit: it is at the end !

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

It's at the end of the video, and I have chapter markers. Cheers!

[@sligor85]

@@TomsCoffeeCornerwow sorry 😢 I thought the video was already over there is too much waste time there usually with other youtubers that I stopped just before that important part 😅

[@biondolg1]

How did you get the pre infusion to work properly? For everyone else it only wets the puck for 1 second and then the rest of the time is used as a pause before the brew.

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

From what I understand, I have an updated firmware version. I am thinking that they can also easily solve the issue with the pre-infusion releasing the pressure through a firmware update.

[@stephenw1799]

I've been looking to move up from my Dedica 685 for a while and its been wrecking my head watching video after video of the usual suspects but after watching this vid i think this machine ticks most, if not all the boxes for what i want.

[@IvanVelickovic-j7l]

Hello Tom. What is your honest opinion when you compare this machine with Lelit Grace? Thanks!

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

I like the looks of the Grace better. Quality is similar in my estimation. Grace also has machine parts that don't line up, and some sharp edges even. This machine has the benefit of two heating systems, so it's easier and faster to use than the Grace. The Apex is much easier to take apart than the Grace. But I really like that the Grace is made in Italy, because I'm an Italy fan. Espresso seems to be similar for me. Milk steaming is probably better on the Apex, since the Grace has the annoying slow steam cut off when shutting the valve.

[@IvanVelickovic-j7l]

@@TomsCoffeeCorner thanks for great reply. In my opinion, it's not worth to change Grace with Apex. When I need to cool down the boiler on Grace, I can do this in 20sec, so it is not such a big deal. For milk steaming on Grace, after some time you get used to it :) I also love that Italian spirit.

[@scaryrawrz]

How do you get the pre-infusion timer to pop up? If I press and hold, I don't see the timer setting come up, it also doesn't appear in the manual. Thanks!

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

On my version, I just press and hold the middle button on the left, which is the manual extraction button. I describe it here: tomscoffeecorner.com/miicoffee-apex-review-prosumer-espresso-for-500/

[@elminno]

I believe this machine is available with 9 bar OPV in EU, under different brand, of course

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

Post a link when you find one...

[@elminno]

I did, got deleted 🤷‍♂️

[@failyx1]

What is it called?

[@TheTXRanger]

In general, you can get most things from China w/ more numerous features, but the quality ends up suffering over time. This could be fine, but there's no track record on it. If you're a "first mover", go for it. I like to know what I'm buying. The GCP, for all its limitations is a pretty bulletproof basic machine.

[@randyr55]

In the previous comments about pre-infusion, Can the firmware be updated by the end user?

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

I don't know about that. I'll ask.

[@NevrNewd]

As someone with a modded GCP who has become very happy with 7 bar extractions, the lack of an OPV is kind of a deal breaker for me. Shame.

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

I know, that seems like an oversight.

[@mangripizza]

Hallo @TomsCoffeeCorner Welche Machine wurdest du empfehlen zwischen micoffeeapex und hibrew 10plus?

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

@@mangripizza Apex ist viel wertiger. Gruß!

[@mangripizza]

@@TomsCoffeeCorner ich habe eine blöde Frage…kann man auch einstellen wie viele Wasser raus kommen soll bei Einzel oder Doppel Espresso? Verkaufst du auch deine benutzten Maschinen? Was wurdest du empfehlen bei ein Budget von max 1K € inklusive eine Mühle?

[@mangripizza]

@TomsCoffeeCorner verkaufst du deine Test Siebträger? Empfehlung für eine Maschine und Mühl bis 1k?

[@bogdanv73]

se poate folosi si cafea fara cofeina? Multumesc

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

Sure, why not?

[@MrStratos18]

i have the machine (DELONGI DELICA) for more than year and a half, i brought Bottomless Portafilter from amazon, first same coffe amount and all normal i hav a good Coffe of espresso, i grind my self and find how fine is ok back then ,now whn i extract with this i have zero cream and coffe is blant also the extraction spashing around,i try other bean also same, the factory portafilter works ok even now.

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

Hello there! Yes, your beans are probably too old - or in other words roasted too long ago. These videos may help: How to extract the perfect espresso: kzbin.info/www/bejne/ppqyZ5ZsbpqCppo How to Get Crema: kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZmGxhHpvaZpsl5o Why Supermarket Coffee Beans are RUINING your Espresso! kzbin.info/www/bejne/a3PKfn6nqp2ZgKs

[@Phil_OG]

Where have you placed the thermo probe for the reading?

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

On top of the coffee puck. It’s not easy to squeeze in there, but it’s about as accurate as I can get with my multimeter.

[@doxman13]

Hi Tom, would you recommend this over Ascaso dream pid?

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

I haven't tried the Dream, but I'd go for the Ascaso myself. I like the longevity of the company, and the fact that they're Spain based.

[@doxman13]

@@TomsCoffeeCorner one more question, is shower screen upgradable? can we replace it with those IMS?

[@jones9319]

I've seen a bunch of videos now and i have to ask, Is it a recurring motif that something drops in every video?

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

Not everytime, no. But I like to include the bloopers - I think they're kinda funny.

[@jones9319]

definitely keep them@@TomsCoffeeCorner

[@TheSinghzKing]

There's no option for hot water?

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

I haven't found one, nope. Not in the manual either.

[@achonakin7361]

Made in China ? Product name in Hungary is AVX DB1 plus, and the price 540. - 550.- dollar . Gaggia Classic Pro Evo price is 490.- 500.- dollar . Which one will still work well when they are 10 years old?

[@chickon_real]

Both

[@adamharika269]

With the price point, it looks really nice. Maybe except the plastic water tank that is on the outside of the main body

[@sagigamil460]

Hi tom, does it suites for 220V ac?

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

Yes, this is the EU version.

[@sagigamil460]

@@TomsCoffeeCorner Thank you I looker where yo but it without any success. Your link provided a 110v one

[@ronnyskaar3737]

Is this Gemilai on Ali exp?

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

Yup. It's a white label machine.

[@ronnyskaar3737]

@@TomsCoffeeCorner Hm. Do you think the Gemilai is the same also if you opened it up like you did with the Miicoffee? Try it 😄 Thanks for great coffee-stuff!

[@calebkongshing3709]

@@ronnyskaar3737 If you looking on the MiiCoffee Apex v2. That is the Gemilai 3007z

[@Cutshortend]

Isn't this the same as kafmasino being sold for 1250 euros 😢

[@alextk69]

I would not rule out the GCP, I bought a new one just the other day for about €260 and I plan to make a Gagguino out of it. In my country the price of the MiiCoffee Apex machine is €600+. So comparing the investment in GCP, both money and time to complete the Gagguino project, to the price of the MiiCoffee, it is still no-brainer for me personally, why I would prefer the Apex machine. However for the mass consumer and/or someone who is not that into DIY projects maybe it would be worth considering the MiiCoffee machine.

[@WTFA54]

I agree with this still, but the irony to me is that the GCP kinda feels more appropriate as a fun project for someone who either enjoys DIY is already invested in the hobby, rather than as a starter machine for a beginner

[@oroast-coffeeproducts8055]

The manufacturers commercial name is one of the names you've mentioned ) That one is not a brand but a manufacturer. They make the most luxurious espresso machines in China and it is a huge company. They produce highly advanced commercial machines where you'll find Procon made rotary vane pumps, digmesa made flow meters and simple machines for home use as well. They use both DB and HX together in quite a few models.

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

So you have a link to an HX machine if theirs?

[@VeekAtanees8830]

Hi Tom. Great info and vids. Updating my deloghi. Chose between bambino plus and mii coffeev2. Which one woukd produce better coffee? Thanks

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

@@VeekAtanees8830 I’d go for the Apex v2. It comes with an adjustable PID, and a separate thermo block for steaming.

[@boardervt]

If this machine had a 9 bar OPV it would be the only machine to buy full stop

[@Ron-tr2wr]

You have a Toyota car and a Ford car; both have cruise control. The Ford has a nice stereo system and is cheaper than the Toyota. Both cars will take you from point A to point B. However, who will survive in the long run? The MiiCoffee looks cheap outside and inside and will not hold up for decades like the Gaggia Classic

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

I disagree that it’s cheap inside and outside. But I do agree that it won’t be as easy to find replacement parts when you need them, compared to the established Legend that the GCP is.

[@eloycortinez2769]

I had a gaggia classic for about 12 years, now it's unusable, no waterflow at all. It had two big flaws: aluminum boiler that reacts with the water creating a lot of deposits, and a solenoid valve that is used to redirect the water from the boiler to the wand or the brewing group that has tiny almost microscopical water conducts that get clogged pretty quickly with all the debris coming from ... the aluminum boiler. Descaling only make things worse. I've just got the apex, and it has a steel boiler. So far so good.

[@Santi_v6]

Miicoffee vs gaggia please

[@IT10T]

haha he would lose all respect from the community for that one

[@sanngy4704]

This coffee manchine is really much better than GCP. The comparision should be with Quickmill Silvano (price more than 1k). The build quality is not far behind Italian build.

[@irgilligan]

Have lots of concerns when a reviewer doesn't understand what the prv valve adjustment does....

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

The valve reduces the flow, and I adjusted it to 5ml/sec. Feel free to elaborate on how it works - I'm more of a software guy.

[@0xcf830]

@@TomsCoffeeCornerthat’s fun, what’s kind software project you been working on?

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

@@0xcf830 It's automation for industrial machinery. So like PLC programming. Cheers!

[@maciej-36]

This could be a no-brainer machine, unfortunately from what i can see no matter what you do it brews around 12bars which is to high. I wonder if you could mod it somehow to brew around 9bars.

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

You can add an OPV to gate it at 9 bar...

[@tulenik71]

well, the role of pressure is overstated, from 6 to 12 bars you are OK (and all that can be adjusted by other parameters; there are even peer reviewed articles about this) you can control the pressure by grinding ( = flow resistance) and flow control

[@seaneckhart9914]

​@@tulenik71 I agree. People pay too much attention about pressure when flow rate/ratio are more practical and can be adjusted on this machine. Ive had espresso at 12 bar and still tasted amazing

[@ricric9521]

Some exactly the same as the Turin Legato

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

@@ricric9521 More or less, yes.

[@v3_Barista]

I wonder if you can install a OPV on it

[@Burns4k]

You should be able to. I recall someone did it for the Turin Legato. You just need to find one that fits.

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

Some people have written that they've done it. Shouldn't be hard, as the pump is easy to access.

[@jakeconnelly2441]

I'll be honest, I don't have a lot of faith in miicoffee after my experience with their scales. I've had TWO of their nano scales now and they both randomly freeze during brewing which sucks. Thought I had a bad unit, got a new one, and it froze on the 3rd brew. I don't think I'd trust my whole espresso machine with them.

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

I have a Nano, and it works without issue. Seems to get good reviews on Amazon, so I think in general they're pretty good. Sorry to hear it though!

[@MrRondonmon]

The only problem Tom is one is made in Italy and the other in China, both around 500 US Dollars, we know GCP holds up well, no one knows if this will, so they have a good price and more features, but tbh, I would probably just go with the the Profitic Go if I wanted the extra features. In 2 or 3 years if this holds up it will probably be hit and go up in price, lol.

[@beefnoodlesoup135]

But the Go is almost 3x the price in the US

[@nhayes927]

The profitec go is 1000 usd and you have to wait to steam, not worth 500 more bucks

[@MrRondonmon]

@@nhayes927 No, is 950 at Whole Latta Love in the USA. That is made in China, if you want to go for for it. But will it hold up 15 t0 20 years? Maybe. Hell I might buy it in another year, I hate my super Auto honestly, so I have the cheap 3420 Delonhi coming with all the add ons needed. But in a year I might buy this if I do not see a bunch of bad feed back.

[@DaddyMakesCoffee]

No one actually talk about this machines built quality as much as I watched in itsXris YT channel. The tested machine by him was Legato which basically the same rebranded as Apex. kzbin.info/www/bejne/a2fSZneFqqinerMsi=l77_Xqc6D5akZG5g

[@blkbyrd]

@@beefnoodlesoup135 No it’s not… The Profitec Go is $1000, this is $500.

[@tomscott4438]

Turin (for Espresso Outlet) probably buys them for around $150, rebrands them, and sells them here in the US for the “bargain” price of $500. Nice little profit margin and since they don’t actually make them, zero R&D or manufacturing costs. That being said, if they were $350 I’d probably jump on one, but not for $500 and especially with no track record for long-term reliability.

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

You're right that these are designed and made in China. Turin and MiiCoffee are essentially marketing companies. But without them, the DF64 for example would not have become so popular.

[@NieWenbin-p3j]

I’m Chinese and I can tell you that they are priced at roughly $400 after tax in Chinese domestic market, so it’s actually a good deal. I’m thinking about buying one

[@JJ-gm4ck]

just returned my 2nd machine under warranty. no more chinese machines for me.

[@yttean98]

My important summary: Cons: No adjustable pressure, normal pressure is 15bar is too high, should really be 9bar for most current coffee machines, 2. The finishing quality is not up to standard. 3. Reliability is unproven hence I'll be waiting for more feedback. Pros: well-priced, some considered it cheap, 2. semi-automatic, 3. PID as std, built-in timer, 4. pre-infusion adjusts. I am waiting for the MKII version (next 12mths? This is designed and made in China I strongly suspect the next model would be available within 12mths) and don't mind paying more for adjustable pressure and higher quality finish.

[@matz4k]

The most common way to adjust pressure is by changing the puck. Grind size, volume of grinds or lately even moisture content before tamping. This is how coffee machines work. Changing flow is already a feature.

[@loganmontgomery1955]

There was a guy in the comment section of the first video who installed an OPV and said it took him less that $20 USD and an hour of time at most. Once I get mine I’m going to install it eventually.

[@eatsleepsurf9108]

You can change the pressure to around 9 bar by changing the flow rate. He has a short on exactly that topic kzbin.infomkrEAlBseck?si=VaS9gfzRq5B48ZR1

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

I don't know how long it will be until a new version comes. This version, minus the manometer and adjustable pre-infusion, has been on the Asian market for a number of years already.

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

Yes, that's true. But when I ground coarser to aim for 9 bar, the shot didn't make it to 25 seconds, it was less than 20. I think it has to do with how the water flow saturates the puck, as I have mine set for a gentle flow (5ml/sec). But who knows, that's just a guess.

[@OsCorrals86]

You reviewed this same chinese machine "kafmassino" 😂

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

Yeah I know. I think I mentioned that. :)

[@danielebergonzi8461]

Mii Coffee - Su Coffee

[@torma99]

Impressive specsheet indeed. My problem is, it is chinese. Having experience with HiBrew at this point I wouldn't touch any chinese machine just pay the proper price for a European make (Lelit, Profitec). Vague support, no parts, shady, witholding refund policy comes with these great features. If it works you are good, but if it don't you just have to write the whole machine off. Same with most of the chinese electronics, bikes and bike parts. SOund good, but one better stay away. Maybe in some years, and then still I would opt for an established option.

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

Which HiBrew did you try, and what problems did it come with?

[@tovinpoh]

These machine is really well made quality except the stainless steel is not the same grade comparing to those high end polish italian machine, for the price it is good enough for daily home user most importanly it makes good coffee comparing much higher price of the same small form machine. These machine are made in chinese reputation factory whose are OEM maker for some of the big brand coffee machine. I had use some other cheap and higher price coffee machine $300~$1800 with E61 group head machine. They all perform well even the cheap machine I still using after more than 2years and it still working as from day 1. Of cos these machine will break down one day as electrical components will just like the italian machine as well. The only difference is the high end italian machine uses high quality copper block boiler and stainless steel casing, these are really good thermal block. I had seen many of these high end italian commercial machines lying in warehouse waiting to be repair or rebuild, it will fail if machines are not properly care and maintain.

[@slyr1]

Saeco Odea Giro Plus

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

That machine is fugly, no offense, lol.

[@phpn99]

Maybe it's time you guys were straight about the fact that this machine is made in China and sold under different brands, like Turin,

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

Haha, no one ever said it wasn't made in China. So is Breville and many Delonghis. But yes, this is a white label product.

[@CrankingAllDay]

China has the best manufacturing in the world. They make cheap junk because people demand it. But they can also make the high quality items for half the price.

[@Tokoroegao]

Bit of a Profitec Rip-off, no?

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

No, from a technical standpoint, this is actually better. 2 heating systems. The Go just has a 400ml single boiler, and that's brass. Some people will prefer the SS of the Apex's boiler. But I am sure the Go has awesome build quality.

[@Maybaby1959]

Ahhhhhhhhhhh

[@BoyarinOtmorozov]

If you continue to buy Chinese products (like this miicoffee) European economics will start "hold your beer" :-)

[@julianbasur2826]

Machine without Heart and Soul, sold under different names, its just shit.

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

@@julianbasur2826 It has no heritage, if that’s what you mean. But it performs well, gotta be honest about that.

[@julianbasur2826]

haha sorry for the mean comment - i am personally just not a fan of such products when there are well built alternatives with proper history. What I mostly dislike is that it seems to be sold under different brands and retailers are putting their sticker on it. Feels like any other cheap chinese amazon product to me even when its built well.

[@julianbasur2826]

Also i see the lelit anna on the same level but italian, nicely looking and built. This machine wont mess with gaggia at all and the insane modding community. Also the e24 is a good move from gaggia i think.

[@dantae666]

@@julianbasur2826 name some other machines please

[@ahy9888]

How long you expect that thing to hold up for your credibility? It’s another freebie review 😢

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

Sure it's a freebie, but honestly I don't need yet another espresso machine. I reviewed it because I think a lot of people are interested in it. For my pros and cons list check out my blog: tomscoffeecorner.com/miicoffee-apex-review-prosumer-espresso-for-500/ The build quality is solid by the way. I showed the build quality and components used in this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/oqOrp5RmftqBp8U Main downside to this machine is currently: no OPV! and the pre-infusion opens the valve during the pause, which is not ideal. It should just stop the pump.

[@DaddyMakesCoffee]

Tom are you not agreeing on built quality of this machine with itsXris? kzbin.info/www/bejne/a2fSZneFqqinerMsi=l77_Xqc6D5akZG5g Maybe the unit sent to him was shipping damaged?!