Mindscape 186 | Sherry Turkle on How Technology Affects Our Humanity

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Blog post with audio player, show notes, and transcript: www.preposterousuniverse.com/...
Advances in technology have gradually been extending the human self beyond its biological extent, as we augment who we are with a variety of interconnected devices. There are obvious benefits to this - it lets us text our friends, listen to podcasts, and not get lost in strange cities. But as it changes how we interact with other people, it’s important to consider unintended side effects. Sherry Turkle is a psychologist and writer who specializes in the relationship between humans and their technology. She makes the case for not forgetting about empathy, conversation, and even the occasional imperfection in how we present ourselves to the world.
Sherry Turkle received her Ph.D. in sociology and personality psychology from Harvard University. She is currently Abby Rockefeller Mauzé Professor of the Social Studies of Science and Technology in the Program in Science, Technology, and Society at MIT, founding director of the MIT Initiative on Technology and Self, and a licensed clinical psychologist. Among her awards are a Guggenheim Fellowship, a Rockefeller Humanities Fellowship, the Harvard Centennial Medal, and she was named “Woman of the Year” by Ms. Magazine. Her new book is The Empathy Diaries: A Memoir.
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[@trevorcrowley5748]

What a beautiful lecture. And what a privilege to witness over one hour of sheer candour, wisdom, and eloquence. This one hit home. Thank you.

[@whazzat8015]

As A.I. advances, Turkle's work is more and more relevant

[@NafiKhan]

nice new format

[@shinjirigged]

Great podcast once again Sean. I wonder if the development of empathy via identity simulation is more valuable to both individuals and society than mitigating the perceived loneliness of self described fearful. If this discussion occurred 100 years ago, we would be having the same conversation about the print-press. Still, We should pay special attention to Prof. Tukle's final message.

[@chemquests]

I agree with her and am pessimistic it will gain traction. Humans tend to go for the new thing, make the mistakes, and then “rediscover” previous insights to make corrections. We’re unlikely to avoid the mistakes she’s warning us about but in a few generations will probably come to some equilibrium.

[@lronSky]

Wonder if she's listened to Rick Roderick. Mirrors many of his beliefs about technology.

[@jartar5841]

I respect the expert opinion given in this talk. However I’m not sure this resonates with my experiences as a mid thirties person. Perhaps I missed some key points, but I think it’s fairly obvious people are using too much social media and escapism. It’s well discussed and understood. Not controversial. Even by the worst addicts, in my experience. A good question is how can we control this in a real way? Going cold turkey “just put the phone down at the dinner table” isn’t entirely useful insight. How do we learn to live with ever expanding technology, instead just labeling it as bad and not how things used to be. You probably won’t convince many young people to want to be off the internet cause things were better back in the day. That doesn’t seem like a realistic expectation to hold people to. It strikes me as more useful to understand why people want to be online and how that can live with a healthy real world lifestyle. Abstinence is no doubt effective, but cmon, let’s be real. Also I’m not sure who the chatbots are I’m supposed to be avoiding. I think everyone who can tell they are talking to a machine doesn’t value that conversation. Like she said it’s obvious a machine can’t understand you, who would disagree with that? We’ve all been upset at Siri for being dumb. In a future with advanced AI though, what if that machine could fool me? What if I don’t know it was a machine. Is being understood important, or is feeling understood important? I would be interested in that idea. Perhaps that’s not possible though.

[@DaveSimkus]

Also 30's here and I agree with you. We will have to live with the technology. Many people on the internet are mocking Metaverse right now but it will evolve and become really good. I personally see the potential. It's like having a second economy that you can plug into. Millenials are struggling in the real physical world and maybe this virtual world will give us more opportunities. Obviously having displays in front of our eyeballs isn't great so the technology will evolve to make it better.

[@robomatt101]

Speaking of the metaverse. VR is great to see the scale and depth of our world. VR and reality have both advantages that neither can do well by themselves. For instance, In Space Engine VR, I had a wonderful experience when I left the earth and was in low earth orbit. I realize I was having the “overview effect” or at least a form of it. I was listening to Carl Sagan’s Pale Blue Dot while seeing the earth get more distant. It was truely an emotional experience. Something that I thought only astronauts would experience. On the other hand, I’m getting my private pilots license in real life because I was so taken by Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 in VR. In VR, I felt that there is no real consequence with taking risks like flying fast and low in the mountains. Of course I would probably never fly like that in real life. But there’s something exciting about the dangers of living out there in the real world vs virtually reality where you can have do-overs.

[@carlbussmann7559]

My first read was "From Eternity to Here" . Over the past 5-6 years there have been so many new changes in cosmology and astrophysics; as a trauma surgeon I have been interested in my HS physics teacher's statement it's really an electron cloud. The podcast presents a new format which brings an idea to the human level. My math is college level but when I retired from surgery several years age, cosmology/astrophysics took over. I have followed you since. Thank you.

[@abrahamhempel9260]

I dont think many people are going to prefer the metaverse vs. reality. Its just a sideshow entertainment with some, hopefully, positive applications in for disabilities and medicine.

[@BIGWUNuvDbunch]

Oh no, my format... it's broken!

[@Dejoblue]

I found this talk interesting; the perspective of baby boomers on "meta-verse". unfortunately it simply didn't resonate with me; the "meta-verse" has been here since Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Games from Ultima, World of Warcraft, and Everquest; BB forums and AOL chat rooms; all the way back to party phone lines and Ham radio; real life experiences with other human beings; that is where the "meta-verse" is and always has been headed; a world we share together; not ruled by robots but built and procured by individuals and eventually virtual communities; eventually ruled by corporations as they finally move in to monetize the new "meta-verse" version we have already enjoyed and built for decades, albeit on new tech. These concerns are the same asinine concerns of all new communications media; the same suckling on the "boob" tube hysteria, that TV rots your brain. Addicts are gonna addict; corporations are gonna greed; humanity is going to develop and evolve outside of those constraints; we know the history and lineage; the real core of this is we do not know what is next; what new tech is coming; and that is exactly what we have always feared and railed against; fear of the unknown. history and our evolution has shown the only thing we have to fear is ourselves; not tech, not robots; humans. P.S. It won't be VR. VR is like rolling a Human in an RPG with Orcs and Elves; we are already human; we do not want reality. It will be there as a hook; an entry point for those not invested in the "meta-verse", without interest; only there for "real life" concerns; the "culturally rural" among us. Facebook is THE portrait of this; and exemplar microcosm. Cheers!

[@fs5775]

She's definitely a talker and not a listener, yeesh...

[@alpcelebi4759]

Yeesh indeed...

[@ericpatterson8794]

This just in, old man yells at cloud! I think she gotten herself into an echo chamber that's exaggerating the adoption of the stuff about which she's most worried, which has made her way more concerned about it than is appropriate. Her being of the outing generation obviously plays a role as well, as demonstrated by her consternation about being seen as an Avatar making interaction pointless.

[@robomatt101]

She reminds me of Jordan Peterson

[@Mr123MTNDEW]

No phones in classrooms is a extremely professorial viewpoint on learning. You're a clever person but your perspective has become rigid in the ivory tower. Phones are a part of research, get over it.