Mindscape 263 | Chris Quigg on Symmetry and the Birth of the Standard Model

Patreon: / seanmcarroll
Blog post with audio player, show notes, and transcript: www.preposterousuniverse.com/...
Einstein's theory of general relativity is distinguished by its singular simplicity and beauty. The Standard Model of Particle Physics, by contrast, is a bit of a mess. So many particles and interactions, each acting somewhat differently, with a bunch of seemingly random parameters. But lurking beneath the mess are a number of powerful and elegant ideas, many of them stemming from symmetries and how they are broken. I talk about some of these ideas with Chris Quigg, who with collaborator Robert Cahn has written a new book on the development of the Standard Model: Grace in All Simplicity.
Chris Quigg received his Ph.D. in physics from the University of California, Berkeley. He is currently Distinguished Scientist Emeritus at Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory. Among his awards is the J.J. Sakurai Prize in theoretical particle physics from the American Physical Society. He is also the author of Gauge Theories of the Strong, Weak, and Electromagnetic Interactions.
Mindscape Podcast playlist: • Mindscape Podcast
Sean Carroll channel: / seancarroll
#podcast #ideas #science #philosophy #culture

[@philtosteson7519]

I want to point out some mistakes about the history of math. (1) Jim Simons did *not* invent fiber bundles-- fiber bundles and connections were invented at least a generation before him by Eli Cartan. (2) Emile Artin ended up at Princeton, not Notre Dame.

[@MrPDTaylor]

Obvi

[@mikhailfranco]

Great guest, present at all the crucial events, yet never heard of him before. Very interesting.

[@spaceinyourface]

Thanks for the podcast & as Soon as it comes out on Audio ,,boom ! Me & the missus are on it .🤓

[@missh1774]

Wonderful. Thank you!

[@invariant47]

more historians of physics please!

[@mehridin]

definitely went for the saturday night talkshow schwung when commissioning the podcast intro music

[@drzecelectric4302]

This guest is a legendary man.

[@djdrocco]

"I haven't heard of Quiss Crigg before," says my brain.

[@mikhailfranco]

Are you lysdexic?

[@archielundy3131]

Ooooh that was good. TY

[@TheMemesofDestruction]

42:47 - That would be pretty sweet! ^.^

[@andersbergstedt7259]

I would love to listen to the audiobook, unfortunately it’s not on audible yet but hopefully this will be rectified soon.

[@JoeHynes284]

i hope seans comes out on audio book, his last couple were

[@dajandroid]

Thank you again Sean and Chris for, my now better understanding, the connections to Noeder’s path and her contributions.

[@CharlesFosterMalloy]

What really happened with the Superconducting Supercollider, and why ??? (Waxahachie, TX, was it ?)

[@mellertid]

For political reasons, it was very big (and national), therefore costly, which eventually didn't work out - politically. 😅

[@schmetterling4477]

The cold war went away at the wrong time. So did the funding.

[@ibraheemmohammed2978]

🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation: 00:01 🎙️ *Introduction to the Crisis in Physics* - Introduction to the current state of particle physics, focusing on the crisis within the standard model. - Highlighting the oddities and limitations of the standard model despite its successful data fitting. - Mentioning the absence of explanations for phenomena like gravity, dark matter, and matter-antimatter asymmetry. 02:31 📜 *Historical Development of the Standard Model* - Overview of Chris Quigg's book, "Grace in All Simplicity," detailing the history of modern particle physics. - Emphasis on the human stories behind the development of the standard model and the Higgs boson. - Discussion on the unpredictability and trial-and-error nature of scientific progress. 08:56 🧠 *The Role of Symmetry in Modern Physics* - Introduction to Emmy Noether and her groundbreaking work on symmetries and conservation laws. - Explanation of Noether's theorems linking symmetries to conservation laws, laying the foundation for modern physics. - Discussion on the importance of symmetries in understanding fundamental interactions and theoretical frameworks like gauge theory. 20:35 📚 *Application of Notter's theory in physics history* - Discussion on the application of Notter's theory in physics history. - Corant and Hilbert's book on methods of mathematical physics. - Recognition of isospin symmetry and its application in the 1950s by Cen Yangang and Bob Mills. 23:40 📜 *Personal details about Emmy Noether* - Insights into Emmy Noether's life and career. - Challenges she faced due to discrimination. - Anecdotes about her teaching and interactions with students. 27:52 🌌 *Understanding forces of nature in the 1950s* - Overview of forces of nature in the 1950s. - Development of Quantum Field Theory and Quantum Electrodynamics. - Identification of the weak interaction and its theoretical framework. 34:12 🔍 *Exploration of symmetries and Yang-Mills theory* - Discussion on the importance of symmetries in physics. - Introduction to Yang-Mills theory and its implications. - Application of Yang-Mills theory in understanding fundamental forces. 39:53 🧠 *Persistence in theoretical physics* - Insight into the persistence of theoretical physicists in pursuing elegant theories. - Comparison between the approach of Yang-Mills theorists and string theorists. - The significance of continuing exploration despite initial discrepancies. 41:02 🧠 *Yang-Mills Theory and Symmetry* - Discussion on the origins of Yang-Mills Theory and its mathematical structures. - Yang's physical motivation for discovering Yang-Mills theories. - Potential dualities between string theory and particle physics, highlighting the need for further exploration. 43:41 🌀 *Symmetry Breaking and Higgs Mechanism* - Explanation of symmetry breaking and the Higgs mechanism. - Historical journey from the concept of symmetry breaking to the discovery of the Higgs boson. - Challenges in understanding the origin of particle masses and the ongoing research at the Large Hadron Collider. 48:28 🕵️‍♂️ *Standard Model Surprises* - Surprising aspects of the Standard Model, particularly regarding weak interactions and symmetries. - Absence of violations in approximate symmetries, posing questions about the completeness of the Standard Model. - Speculation on potential hidden phenomena or undiscovered theories beyond the Standard Model. 55:03 🔍 *Quark Model and Strong Interactions* - Origins of the quark model and the journey to understanding strong interactions. - Early attempts to classify particles and the proposal of SU(3) flavor symmetry. - George Zweig's and Murray Gell-Mann's contributions to the quark model and their differing perspectives. 01:01:57 🧲 *Symmetry breaking in Protons* - Experiments at the Stanford linear accelerator Center in 1968 hinted at little charged particles inside protons. - Despite initial skepticism within field theory, a breakthrough came in 1973 with the generalization of Yang Mills Theory, allowing particles to appear independent yet coherent within protons. - The discovery revolutionized understanding of proton structure and the behavior of particles within. 01:04:29 🚀 *The Thrilling Era of Particle Physics* - Particle physics in the 1960s and 70s saw groundbreaking experiments regularly challenging existing theories. - The introduction of colliding electron beams at Stanford University marked a significant advancement in experimental techniques. - Institutions like SLAC and Fermilab became hubs for cutting-edge research, fostering collaboration and innovation. 01:09:28 🔬 *Advancements in Experimental Techniques* - The transition from studying two or three particles in bubble chambers to detecting dozens marked a shift towards statistical physics. - Techniques for producing strong, focused particle beams, particularly at Fermilab, advanced experimental capabilities. - The discovery of the J/Ψ particle in 1974 reinforced the reality of quarks and reshaped research priorities. 01:14:30 🌍 *Evolution of CERN and Global Collaboration* - CERN's evolution from post-war collaboration to a leading research institution symbolizes successful international cooperation. - Milestones like the Large Hadron Collider's discovery of the Higgs boson solidified CERN's role as a premier particle physics laboratory. - Collaborations between European and American institutions have been instrumental in advancing our understanding of fundamental particles. 01:17:11 📈 *Future Directions in Particle Physics* - While the Standard Model has been remarkably successful, puzzles like matter-antimatter asymmetry and dark matter continue to intrigue physicists. - The absence of new physics at the Large Hadron Collider underscores the need for innovative approaches to uncovering deeper truths. - Questions surrounding dark energy, cosmic expansion, and the nature of the universe promise a rich landscape for future exploration. 01:21:06 🌌 *Interconnection of Fundamental Theories* - Modern physics reveals a remarkable coherence between fundamental theories of forces and celestial observations. - Understanding a wide spectrum of phenomena, from technological advancements to celestial events, enhances our grasp of physics. - Anomalies and discrepancies in particle physics experiments, like the muon's magnetic moment, offer potential avenues for new discoveries. 01:22:40 🧲 *Investigating Anomalies in Particle Physics* - Despite discrepancies in experimental measurements and theoretical predictions, there's optimism about uncovering new physics. - An example is the measurement of the muon's magnetic moment, where experiments at Fermilab hint at deviations from theoretical expectations. - Discrepancies, like those observed in the fine structure constant, challenge current understanding and may lead to breakthroughs in physics. 01:24:16 🔍 *Potential for New Discoveries in Particle Physics* - Anomalies in muon experiments suggest the potential for new interactions beyond current theories. - Precise measurements at Fermilab and other facilities provide tantalizing hints of physics beyond the Standard Model. - Investigating discrepancies between experimental results and theoretical predictions offers opportunities for groundbreaking discoveries. Made with HARPA AI

[@DavidBrown-om8cv]

"... the Standard Model ... does not include dark matter ..." The assumption that dark matter particles exist depends upon the assumption that gravitational energy is conserved. Consider some conjectures: (1) Gravity Probe B's 4 ultra-precise gyroscopes did not malfunction (due to electrostatic patches), but instead functioned correctly & confirmed the hypothesis dark-matter-compensation-constant = (3.9±.5) * 10^-5. (2) Einsteinian causality is string theory with Fredkin's finite nature hypothesis + simplifying assumptions. (3) String vibrations are approximately confined to 3 copies of the Leech lattice (explaining why there are 3 generations of fermions). (4) The monster group & the 6 pariah groups allow Einsteinian causality to work, using the Fredkin network of information that constitutes the multiverse. (5) The Friedmann model needs to replaced by the Riofrio-Sanejouand model. (6) Some gravitons have spin slightly > 2 (explaining dark matter) & some gravitons have spin slightly < 2 (explaining dark energy). (7) The Koide formula & Lestone's theory of virtual cross sections are essential for understanding string theory. (8) Milgrom is the Kepler of contemporary cosmology. Are the 8 preceding conjectures wrong? Please google "pavel kroupa dark matter", "mcgaugh triton station", & "milgrom koide lestone".

[@schmetterling4477]

What's up with the bullshit? :-)

[@paulbk7810]

Love this! Most important idea, real world science is developed by people. Where "people" = human beings.

[@gerardopc1]

I think a podcast with Australian theoretical physicist Helen Quinn would be great, Sean 👌🏽😌

[@deepfritz225]

In the esoteric echelons of intellectual discourse, where Sean Carroll, the designated orchestrator of the Mindscape Podcast, presides with an air of mirthful disdain over the purported tumult within the physics domain, one finds a narrative enshrouded in the exquisite complexity of scientific pursuit. This narrative, replete with jest, posits that the so-called crises within physics are but the lifeblood of inquiry, mere ripples on the vast ocean of discovery that defines the cutting edge of human understanding. With a discerning eye, Carroll delves into the enigmatic realm of particle physics, where the Standard Model-this behemoth of theoretical constructs-reigns with an ambivalence that is both confounding and majestic. It stands as a monument to human achievement, fitting the data of our observable universe with uncanny precision, yet it recoils at the notion of encompassing gravity, dark matter, or the cosmic ballet of the universe’s inception. Its aesthetic, a peculiar amalgamation of elegance and cumbersome inelegance, serves as a testament to the inherent paradoxes that fuel the quest for knowledge beyond the confines of the known. Into this narrative waltz Chris Quigg and Robert Cahn, bearing "Grace in All Simplicity," a tome that transcends the mundane recitation of particle physics' equations to explore the human odyssey that underpins the Standard Model's evolution. Their work is not merely an account of scientific milestones but an ode to the luminaries of physics, a paean to the unyielding human spirit that yearns for comprehension amidst the cosmos' vastness. Woven into this tale are the threads of Emmy Noether's groundbreaking theorem, which marries the cosmos's symmetries with the immutable laws of conservation, and the serendipitous journey from the enigmatic Yang-Mills theory to the revelations of quantum chromodynamics. This narrative, a testament to the universe's intricate beauty, challenges the very fabric of reality, urging a reevaluation of the fundamental forces that govern the cosmos. Carroll and Quigg's exchange, imbued with historical anecdotes and philosophical reflections, ascends beyond the mere transmission of knowledge. It beckons the reader into a realm where the universe's poetry is inscribed not in mere words but in the ethereal language of mathematics and the relentless spirit of inquiry. Here, they craft a symphony that reverberates through reality's fabric, inviting a select few to grasp the unfathomable depths of the cosmos in a dance that stretches the bounds of understanding into the infinite.

[@SpotterVideo]

If quarks have not been isolated and gluons have not been isolated, how do we know they are not parts of the same thing? The tentacles of an octopus and the body of an octopus are parts of the same creature. Is there an alternative interpretation of "Asymptotic Freedom"? What if Quarks are actually made up of twisted tubes which become physically entangled with two other twisted tubes to produce a proton? Instead of the Strong Force being mediated by the constant exchange of gluons, it would be mediated by the physical entanglement of these twisted tubes. When only two twisted tubules are entangled, a meson is produced which is unstable and rapidly unwinds (decays) into something else. A proton would be analogous to three twisted rubber bands becoming entangled and the "Quarks" would be the places where the tubes are tangled together. The behavior would be the same as rubber balls (representing the Quarks) connected with twisted rubber bands being separated from each other or placed closer together producing the exact same phenomenon as "Asymptotic Freedom" in protons and neutrons. The force would become greater as the balls are separated, but the force would become less if the balls were placed closer together. Therefore, the gluon is a synthetic particle (zero mass, zero charge) invented to explain the Strong Force. An artificial Christmas tree can hold the ornaments in place, but it is not a real tree. String Theory was not a waste of time, because Geometry is the key to Math and Physics. However, can we describe Standard Model interactions using only one extra spatial dimension? What did some of the old clockmakers use to store the energy to power the clock? Was it a string or was it a spring? What if we describe subatomic particles as spatial curvature, instead of trying to describe General Relativity as being mediated by particles? Fixing the Standard Model with more particles is like trying to mend a torn fishing net with small rubber balls, instead of a piece of twisted twine. Quantum Entangled Twisted Tubules: “We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question which divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct.” Neils Bohr (lecture on a theory of elementary particles given by Wolfgang Pauli in New York, c. 1957-8, in Scientific American vol. 199, no. 3, 1958) The following is meant to be a generalized framework for an extension of Kaluza-Klein Theory. Does it agree with some aspects of the “Twistor Theory” of Roger Penrose, and the work of Eric Weinstein on “Geometric Unity”, and the work of Dr. Lisa Randall on the possibility of one extra spatial dimension? During the early history of mankind, the twisting of fibers was used to produce thread, and this thread was used to produce fabrics. The twist of the thread is locked up within these fabrics. Is matter made up of twisted 3D-4D structures which store spatial curvature that we describe as “particles"? Are the twist cycles the "quanta" of Quantum Mechanics? When we draw a sine wave on a blackboard, we are representing spatial curvature. Does a photon transfer spatial curvature from one location to another? Wrap a piece of wire around a pencil and it can produce a 3D coil of wire, much like a spring. When viewed from the side it can look like a two-dimensional sine wave. You could coil the wire with either a right-hand twist, or with a left-hand twist. Could Planck's Constant be proportional to the twist cycles. A photon with a higher frequency has more energy. ( E=hf, More spatial curvature as the frequency increases = more Energy ). What if Quark/Gluons are actually made up of these twisted tubes which become entangled with other tubes to produce quarks where the tubes are entangled? (In the same way twisted electrical extension cords can become entangled.) Therefore, the gluons are a part of the quarks. Quarks cannot exist without gluons, and vice-versa. Mesons are made up of two entangled tubes (Quarks/Gluons), while protons and neutrons would be made up of three entangled tubes. (Quarks/Gluons) The "Color Charge" would be related to the XYZ coordinates (orientation) of entanglement. "Asymptotic Freedom", and "flux tubes" are logically based on this concept. The Dirac “belt trick” also reveals the concept of twist in the ½ spin of subatomic particles. If each twist cycle is proportional to h, we have identified the source of Quantum Mechanics as a consequence twist cycle geometry. Modern physicists say the Strong Force is mediated by a constant exchange of Gluons. The diagrams produced by some modern physicists actually represent the Strong Force like a spring connecting the two quarks. Asymptotic Freedom acts like real springs. Their drawing is actually more correct than their theory and matches perfectly to what I am saying in this model. You cannot separate the Gluons from the Quarks because they are a part of the same thing. The Quarks are the places where the Gluons are entangled with each other. Neutrinos would be made up of a twisted torus (like a twisted donut) within this model. The twist in the torus can either be Right-Hand or Left-Hand. Some twisted donuts can be larger than others, which can produce three different types of neutrinos. If a twisted tube winds up on one end and unwinds on the other end as it moves through space, this would help explain the “spin” of normal particles, and perhaps also the “Higgs Field”. However, if the end of the twisted tube joins to the other end of the twisted tube forming a twisted torus (neutrino), would this help explain “Parity Symmetry” violation in Beta Decay? Could the conversion of twist cycles to writhe cycles through the process of supercoiling help explain “neutrino oscillations”? Spatial curvature (mass) would be conserved, but the structure could change. ===================== Gravity is a result of a very small curvature imbalance within atoms. (This is why the force of gravity is so small.) Instead of attempting to explain matter as "particles", this concept attempts to explain matter more in the manner of our current understanding of the space-time curvature of gravity. If an electron has qualities of both a particle and a wave, it cannot be either one. It must be something else. Therefore, a "particle" is actually a structure which stores spatial curvature. Can an electron-positron pair (which are made up of opposite directions of twist) annihilate each other by unwinding into each other producing Gamma Ray photons? Does an electron travel through space like a threaded nut traveling down a threaded rod, with each twist cycle proportional to Planck’s Constant? Does it wind up on one end, while unwinding on the other end? Is this related to the Higgs field? Does this help explain the strange ½ spin of many subatomic particles? Does the 720 degree rotation of a 1/2 spin particle require at least one extra dimension? Alpha decay occurs when the two protons and two neutrons (which are bound together by entangled tubes), become un-entangled from the rest of the nucleons . Beta decay occurs when the tube of a down quark/gluon in a neutron becomes overtwisted and breaks producing a twisted torus (neutrino) and an up quark, and the ejected electron. The production of the torus may help explain the “Symmetry Violation” in Beta Decay, because one end of the broken tube section is connected to the other end of the tube produced, like a snake eating its tail. The phenomenon of Supercoiling involving twist and writhe cycles may reveal how overtwisted quarks can produce these new particles. The conversion of twists into writhes, and vice-versa, is an interesting process, which is also found in DNA molecules. Could the production of multiple writhe cycles help explain the three generations of quarks and neutrinos? If the twist cycles increase, the writhe cycles would also have a tendency to increase. Gamma photons are produced when a tube unwinds producing electromagnetic waves. ( Mass=1/Length ) The “Electric Charge” of electrons or positrons would be the result of one twist cycle being displayed at the 3D-4D surface interface of the particle. The physical entanglement of twisted tubes in quarks within protons and neutrons and mesons displays an overall external surface charge of an integer number. Because the neutrinos do not have open tube ends, (They are a twisted torus.) they have no overall electric charge. Within this model a black hole could represent a quantum of gravity, because it is one cycle of spatial gravitational curvature. Therefore, instead of a graviton being a subatomic particle it could be considered to be a black hole. The overall gravitational attraction would be caused by a very tiny curvature imbalance within atoms. In this model Alpha equals the compactification ratio within the twistor cone, which is approximately 1/137. 1= Hypertubule diameter at 4D interface 137= Cone’s larger end diameter at 3D interface where the photons are absorbed or emitted. The 4D twisted Hypertubule gets longer or shorter as twisting or untwisting occurs. (720 degrees per twist cycle.) How many neutrinos are left over from the Big Bang? They have a small mass, but they could be very large in number. Could this help explain Dark Matter? Why did Paul Dirac use the twist in a belt to help explain particle spin? Is Dirac’s belt trick related to this model? Is the “Quantum” unit based on twist cycles? I started out imagining a subatomic Einstein-Rosen Bridge whose internal surface is twisted with either a Right-Hand twist, or a Left-Hand twist producing a twisted 3D/4D membrane. This topological Soliton model grew out of that simple idea.

[@cookingbyalex9054]

quigg rhymes with higg ?? coincidence? i think not. flat earth confirmed

[@peterbroderson6080]

The moment a particle is a wave; it has to be a conscious wave! Nicola Tesla states, “If you want to find the secrets of the universe, think in terms of energy, frequency, and vibration” Gravity is the conscious attraction among waves to create the illusion of particles, and creates our experience-able Universe. Max Planck states: "Consciousness is fundamental and matter is derived from Consciousness". Life is the Infinite Consciousness, experiencing the Infinite Possibilities, Infinitely. We are "It", experiencing our infinite possibilities in our finite moment. Our job is to make it interesting!

[@schmetterling4477]

What's up with the bullshit? ;-)

[@MrPDTaylor]

Third