Miracle Queen: The Worst Finale Ever? | Video Essay

[@icy9428]

it's kinda funny when you think about it cuz felix was supposed to be cat noir but they changed it to adrien so it was kinda cool to see how diffrent they are from eachother

[@Luuni100]

i liked the idea of putting felix since i thought he would just be a cute shy/reserved character like todoroki, it would be a breath of fresh air since they make all the other characters stupidly nice. but instead they made him a freaking asshole

[@Goovdluck687]

@@Luuni100 yes. Every character that has a different and contrast personality is evil. Everyone is so goody two shoes that it feels stale and stagnant.

[@ki3497]

@HypnoSpace Outlaw Idk I find Adrien more interesting and refreshing, Felix is too cliche in my opinion

[@damnthatscrazy4426]

Tbh

[@cartooncottage2024]

Indeed.

[@b.bird.]

Only Miraculous fanfics are cannon to me, this show is just: "Hey let's throw in this randomly generated idea and hope it somehow works"

[@spectre9340]

Lmao there's so many fan ideas that got stolen and made it into actual episodes (e.g. Marichat balcony scene, kwami swap, Anti-bug/Chat Blanc, even that T-Rex running around Paris was from a fanfic) But the problem is that the writers would steal these concepts from fan works but not fully understand what makes certain ideas work.

[@b.bird.]

@@spectre9340 Oh absolutely. At this point Thomas should just hire fans to write his show for him

[@ghadlydevastated2067]

Chat Blanc was blatantly stolen from fanon. And the Chat Blanc fan comics are better in writing too.

[@i.cs.z]

@@spectre9340 At this point, somebody should collect every fan fic/ comic what the showriters stole from. Would be interesting.

[@baval5]

Nymph and the Corrupted Miraculous is my true canon

[@MinisDunyasi5]

I’ve heard people saying “Master Fu sacrificed himself in Miracle Queen.” but NO. He didn’t sacrifice anything! He just gave all the responsibility to Ladybug aka Marinette who’s a teenager and already had enough on her plate and he himself didn’t have any consequences. Honestly it would’ve been better if he got in front of some magical blast or something resulting in him protecting the other heroes but sacrificing himself in the process. That sacrifice being him dying. Leaving both Ladybug and Chat Noir being in charge of The Miracle Box. And now that Master Fu(ck) is out of the way they could reveal their identities to each other, train together, work together, experiment together and most importantly TRUST each other and be EQUAL. It would’ve been so much better honestly.

[@yesagreed8419]

Master Fu(ck) dying would’ve been a good plot development for the show. If he died Ladybug and Chat Noir would have to experience grief. And Marinette would probably blame herself for Master Fu(ck)’s death and Adrien would comfort her. Marinette would‘be been incredibly sad and depressed so sad that she probably won’t have the energy to be Ladybug anymore resulting in her quitting. Adrien trying to change her mind but failing. Then Chat Noir goes on to fight a villain but couldn’t do it all alone and then Marinette sees the fight and realizes that Chat Noir needs her because they’re a team, becomes Ladybug again they fight the villain as a team and at the end of the episode she realizes that she they’re a better team now because they TRUST each other and are EQUAL now.

[@raine_drop6630]

Yes

[@stupido-um4xo]

Okay it's been a while since i saw this episode so correct me if I'm wrong but...master fu(ck) was only trapped inside his slowly falling apart shellter with hawkmoth and mayura outside waiting for it to shatter and do god knows what to him. He's not in any immediate danger as it's been holding up pretty well but...out of the blue just decides that "hey, i haven't given this child nearly enough stress or things to worry about. I should fix that" and makes her the new guardian on the spot so that hawkmoth can't possibly beat the information out of him despite that being the very last thing he'd ever be willing to do. To this day i still don't think he had to make anyone the new guardian and should have gone out like every elderly mentor should: like a badass in their final moments.

[@MinisDunyasi5]

@@irisinmars Emily Agreste, Adrien’s mother is in a coma but she didn’t go into a coma on screen and also, we’re in Season 4 and we have 0 Emily flashbacks now that’s some very bad writing but we’re used to that in this show.

[@Alexis-ln9iy]

@@irisinmars It’s probably because it’s supposed to be a kid’s show. 🧍🏻‍♀️

[@disco_depression]

Thomas acts like he invented feminism and LGBT rights. Dude, your cartoon is filled with racial stereotypes.

[@CookieCrumbAJ]

Wait racist stereotypes?! Can you explain I’m appalled

[@JayRedGear]

@@kawaiiblossom8278 And one of those black guys in the comic was called Geto Blaster.

[@Saltedroastedcaramel]

@@kawaiiblossom8278 I don't know about the second part, but wouldn't Chloe racially insensitivity be another way of Thomas making her unlikable or make her just ignorant?

[@lieselito]

@@CookieCrumbAJ there’s also a scene in that episode where marinette and chloe worked together to sabotage kagami (i forgot the name of the episode) chloe said something along the lines of “we have to rescue adrien from kagami or else he’d have to eat sushi for the rest of his life” many have found this scene off putting and disrespectful

[@sallyface5259]

This cartoon is highlighting misandry and that is why i hate it.

[@starcrossedandstupidYT]

Best moment in Felix Felix: *throws basket ball* Adrien: I’m sorry I didn’t go to your dads funeral

[@Ivypool123]

yes😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@Darlingseries]

🤣🤣🤣

[@inksansbutangsty7984]

EXACTLY

[@inksansbutangsty7984]

Best part of miraculous

[@ehhh512]

Lol😂 but what adrien said before that tho, "remember our shooting contest?", And then he said that, it make it seem like he shot his uncle😭

[@jamesprice6015]

You know, it's disappointing that Chloe became completely irredeemable for the sake of making Yandere Marinette look good. The mighty God of Redemption, Zuko is not pleased with this.

[@noppetynope1608]

I completely agree

[@eyelove_owlcity]

Actually, the God of redemption is Steve Harrington from Stranger Things lol

[@b.bird.]

To be fair I wouldn't call Zuko's arc a redemption arc because he technically wasn't a villain. An antagonist for a short while yes, but not a full on menace like Azula or his father. Redemption arcs are about villans changing their evil ways for good. Zuko never did that. He never had to stop doing something evil, instead Zuko's arc was about realizing he never stood for his father's morals and learning he doesn't need to find honor because he was the only one who had it in his family. Zuko "lost" his honor when he stood up to his father, telling him that sacrificing an entire army is immoral and unnecessarily cruel. Zuko's arc is simply an abuse victim learning he doesn't need to bend his morals to appease his abusive father

[@amimiriam1238]

​@@eyelove_owlcity HELL YES TO THIS!! HELL YES TO STEVE HARRINGTON!! :D

[@smart.but.stupid]

@@b.bird. yes!! I wanted to write the same comment. Zuko was impulsive, angry and destructive at first, but he was never unfaithful, cruel or a coward. He never did bad for the sake of being bad. I mean, in the same third episode of the first season he's shown redeemable qualities.

[@Jessica-qd6nu]

I love Cyrus's love-hate relationship with the show lolll

[@jenniferchristina9052]

I know right :)

[@Ratassc3nt]

Same with me It sucks but okay-

[@fathiyyah3198]

Fr why do i keep coming back to this show when i hate it so much?!

[@Cringelilgachachannel2259]

@@fathiyyah3198 i do the same thing, it’s a hate-hate relationship

[@drawnwithlove3499]

Isn't this called manipulation

[@iansarmiento23]

Master Fu-ck ruined everyone's life. By creating Feast, he destroyed the guardian temple, lost the miraculous and created a villain. The whole story is his fault and the show brushes it off like it was a tiny mistake.

[@Cringelilgachachannel2259]

And he can technically be blamed for Emilie’s current state. He was the one who lost the miraculous. We don’t know how it broke but we do know if fu had never used the miraculous in the first place it wouldn’t have got broken and certainly not basically killed Emilie and made Nathalie sick

[@cuppops8695]

Literally, in that episode with the celestial guardian, Marinette defends him by saying “he only made one mistake”???

[@sugarcoatt_]

Ikr he is literally so stupid

[@Popgurliess]

he shoudn't have never been there in the first place.

[@edoardofrattini951]

Easely the worst character.

[@laura-tk5cp]

the fact that the writers made chloe a racist so many times makes me angry. "lmao kagami is japanese?? sushi!!! she loves sushi!" or "china and japan are the same thing dont yell at me adrien"

[@ClaudetteVioletta]

Also Marinette with the italian accent but I guess that's ok

[@juicyqueef1102]

He really tried to make us hate her, but she's still better the trashinette

[@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaDooplivian]

@@juicyqueef1102 Yep. Also I prefer the name stalkernette.

[@J4YD4WG12]

@@juicyqueef1102 nice name ya got there-

[@juicyqueef1102]

@@J4YD4WG12 thanks

[@cottoncandyhairamitystan8389]

I’m just gonna say it: Vesperia isn’t Queen Bee. She isn’t Chloe. Saying she’s better than Chloe as a character is like saying the boiled water is better than the stew. And yeah maybe the stew can be weird sometimes, and it can be frustrating, but AT LEAST THE STEW HAS FLAVOR!!!!!

[@47ratsinahoodie]

Love this analogy

[@donflamingo5685]

Yo is you a non fiction book? Cause all you got is facts my G.

[@rahelwolff5085]

True though, I really don't understand why we had to have a new Queen bee, like Zoe could have gotten another miraculous for all I care, but let chloe get the one thing she desperately wanted the whole time. I really was looking forward to a possible redemption arc in season 4 for her , but honestly I have lost all hope with the way she is in queen banana and actually throughout the whole season so far. I really hate it

[@akilucky2090]

Amen!

[@fathiyyah3198]

Zoe,,, she literally master everything on her first time being vesperia…

[@AnimationStation3000]

I believe Thomas said that the point of the redemption arc in season 2 was to prove she was irredeemable. Which, if that were the intention, they did a very poor job of it

[@b.bird.]

Or he could've just not given her one...that would've proven his point better But then again this is the same guy who's trying to convince us creepy bug stalker is a better person than an abuse victim

[@47ratsinahoodie]

@@b.bird. Exactly, like people say Lila should have been used as the example of "some people don't change" because she never got the development and backstory Chloe did and that's one of the easiest ways to write an irredeemable villain, not giving the audience any reason to sympathize with them. Why do people like Zuko? A boy desperate for approval, honor, and recognition even when the person he wants it from isn't the person he should seek to please and even when those three things might mean hurting others. Why do people like Amity? A girl pushed by her parents to be a snobbish scholar but is instead a stressed introvert searching for her happiness. Why do people like Catra? Abused child who grew up believing love is finite and that it's useless to get close to others because you never know when they'll be ripped away or just stop caring. Why do people dislike Azula (I know she has a backstory and a lot of people like her and wanted to see her redeemed but this is just for comparison purposes), Boscha, and Horde Prime? A lack of backstory and personal justification for their shittiness. They're bad just because they can be. They don't act out because they're looking for attention or happiness or affection. They're just assholes. They're Zuko, Amity, and Catra taken to the extreme. You want an irredeemable villain? Don't try and be clever with it, there's nothing wrong with taking the simple route here. Just. Don't. Have. A. Backstory. That. Results. In. Sympathy. Or. An. Understanding. Of. Personal. Justifications. That pissed me off for the longest about Astruc's handling of Chloe.

[@marygraceoyangorin8918]

@@47ratsinahoodie I agree with this comment.

[@b.bird.]

@@47ratsinahoodie Ass-Truck wrote Chloe saying: "Why don't you love me mom?" and somehow expected all of us to look at that scene thinking: "Ugh what an unreasonable bitch I swear" Even the reason why Chloe turned into Miracle Queen was because Marinette hates her. She used "well Hawkmoth knows your identity" bs but she gave Kagami dragon miraculous numerous times plus Ladybug has the ability to alter superhero's apperance and that's why Rena kept the fox miraculous. There was literally no reason why Chloe couldn't continue being Queen Bee apart from her creator has a massive vendetta against her simply because he's based her off his bully

[@47ratsinahoodie]

@@b.bird. Like how do you tell us that Chloe was abandoned by her mom as a toddler and then expect us to dislike her when she tries to get some reasoning as to why it seems like her mom doesn't love or care about her? I'm honestly concerned for kids that watch this and don't recognize that the characters' actions are being shown in positive or negative lights so the kids associate certain behaviors and characters with goodness and others with evil because Astruc admittedly is decent at manipulating viewers with writing. Just imagine how many kids actually saw that line and thought of Chloe as unreasonable

[@dayy4115]

God, can we make a petition to discard the current writers AND THAT ASSTRUCK??? Like, this show has a good potential and then they just threw it out of the window. And as much as I like chat blanc episode, when Gabe actually tries to harm his own son is unbelievable and contradicts previous episode where he actually tries to protect adrien during the episode where he suspects that Adrien is chat noir.

[@fluffigefledermaus218]

It'd be nice to restart the whole thing and hope it'll become something better

[@saltedwounds]

Absolutely, I think they just made Gabriel’s development with his son go backwards for the sake of shock value.

[@redram6080]

I believe he did that because he knew that Chat is essentially invincible when he's in the costume but that's honestly no excuse. I thought that was kinda ooc too. They keep flip flopping between him being an irredeemable scum bag and being an evil father that still loves his family

[@elizack_8189]

@@fluffigefledermaus218 yep yep

[@Cringelilgachachannel2259]

And it makes even less sense considering his reaction to finding out chat noir was his son in wishmaker. (For those who haven’t seen it, Adrien was revealed and Gabriel just stood there in shock and said “MY SON!?!”)

[@dublumlum]

Marinette basically gets away with murder in S4. She hijacks Kagami from a training session so she can "rekindle" her love for Adrien where in reality, Marinette just wants to fawn over Adrien. I was hoping and praying that Kagami would set her the frick straight but then, just before what I wanted most almost happened, Kagami gets merced by the villain. Then when all is peaceful, Kagami is like, "I don't like Adrien but I an see by the way you look at him that you do," and guess what? Marinette doesn't get told off. She isn't told she's being creepy, she isn't scolded for using Kagami to get close to Adrien. She just told that she still likes him. This show hurts so much to watch.

[@redram6080]

Then there was Crocoduel when Marinette literally told Juleka (someone she knows has anxiety issues) to make sure Luka doesn't come to his own birthday party just because she didn't have the guts to talk to him. Yes she apologized later but the fact she even did that in the first place is disgusting.

[@yvonnezonjoe3675]

@@redram6080 Marinette feels so toxic and insensitive on that part! I felt sorry for Juleka because she was put into too much pressure between her brother, friends, and Marinette. And what I feel uncomfortable the most is Mari was forgiven easily and Juleka even low-key blamed herself while Mari still have the perfect figure.

[@chinonsookpara2224]

@@redram6080 she literally apologized and helped juleka

[@chinonsookpara2224]

@@yvonnezonjoe3675 um marinette literally apologized to her and helped her

[@chinonsookpara2224]

@Josie Violett but she stopped, The damage is done but she did

[@sarah12222]

no hate to zoe but i just know that the only reason that they put her in the show was to make a better chloe and also replace her, like most of us really asked for chloe redemption but instead of that we got another character a “better chloe” and the way thomas asstruck is trying to look chloe so freaking bad in season 4 i just know there was a girl named chloe and she rejected him that’s why he probably hates her so much??

[@babyfaceweeb8937]

Honestly it's funny how that girl from his CHILDHOOD still lives in his head rent free. She must be doing great and he was hoping she would be sad and miserable at their 20 year class reunion and she wasn't.

[@generalwaddles6638]

I don't know if this confirmed but I heard that he based Chloe off a childhood bully.

[@cannabishornliu6119]

It would be cool IF they used Zoe for Chloe's development WHILE making Zoe a likeable or interesting character herself...

[@lilyaka9194]

Plagg’s quote was straightup salt in the wound-

[@spaghetto9836]

I'm not a fan of Luka because I'm not into the sad/e-boy trope, but seeing him simp for Mari despite her treating him badly just _hurts._ ⚠️ S4 spoilers- When they start dating, she does the thing where you call your bf by another dude's name (in this case Adrien), and Luka's just like "...My name is Luka. 🙂" and I felt the pain in his eyes 😭. Then later when he gets akumatized, he forces Alya to tell him Mari's secret & when she says "She is in love with Adrien Agreste", he replies "..That's not a secret.". Like DAMN 😢 HOW ARE YOU SO UNREALISTICALLY OKAY ABOUT THIS AFTERWARDS?? It's what turns me off about him. Actually Marinette shouldn't have a man, not bc hero stuff will get in the way but bc she treats ALL her crushes like DIRT. Thomas loving her sm is the only thing stopping her from getting a *beating* from either Lila or Chloe, & a middle finger from Luka or Chat Noir.

[@starryblueberryjoy]

i felt the exact same way

[@lightlylemony]

i wish they would've made Luka more realistic. If I was him, and marinette clearly had a crush on adrien still, I would've broken it off. Like she just hurts him so much, why even date him if you're inlove with another man?

[@spaghetto9836]

@@lightlylemony Yes, exactly.

[@emmypersonal4033]

I like what Luka *COULD BE* if he was written by any other writing team tbh. He could be a great character but unfortunately, due to the writing team, he's VERY 2d

[@screw_a_username7491]

@@emmypersonal4033 I feel like he needs to be more like Kagami. Not the same personality but acts realistic like Kagami.

[@sprinkelle1165]

I’d much rather chloe’s downfall resulted in ladybug lashing out at her, about how she cant give chloe a miraculous and its gotten the both of them in danger. Not only would it show ladybug is only human and cant handle the stress of being a superhero sometimes but it’d make chloe be upset at ladybug and cause Chloe to be akumatised, resulting in the finale. At the end of the episode instead of Chloe returning to her ways she learns her lesson and becomes a better person,

[@wasay1589]

If the people can't recognize merinette from a mask then can't bee miraculous change her super hero outfit A bit. they won't know if she is queen bee if they can't tell merinette is ladybug

[@donflamingo5685]

@@wasay1589 the costume is chosen subconsciously. You can't actively change it. Chloe would have to have a deep internal change and then it "might" become a different outfit.

[@wasay1589]

@@donflamingo5685 damn well thanks

[@donflamingo5685]

@@wasay1589 yeah for now only spoilers: (The fox miraculous can do that. Because of it's illusion ability.)

[@wasay1589]

@@donflamingo5685 oooOo

[@MinisDunyasi5]

Hawkmoth is probably the most stupid villain ever. He had The Miracle Box and he didn’t take out any miraculouses to keep for himself specially The Snake and The Bunny Miraculous that would give him chances to try again. But NO. He just gave The Miracle Box without taking any miraculouses to Chloe like an idiot. And also he tries the same thing which is Akumatizing literally random people who have a bit of negative energy, gets defeated but he still tries the same technique hoping for a different result. Like dude you’ve tried that so many times and wasn’t successful try another technique. And is Season 4 Pigeon 72 he akumatized the same person 72 times! Hoping for a different result. He probably set up the whole thing to make the pigeon guy negative to akumatize him again. And also Hawkmoth’s decisions make him look incredibly stupid but it also makes the show very repetitive and not enjoyable to watch

I literally agree with everything you said he literally can't defeat teenagers with far less experience than him... (SPOILER S4) Also I heard that hawkmoth was going to be able to take one of the miraculous but we don't know if it's gonna be temporary or not but I do hope it is because we're literally in season 4 and he still wasn't able to steal any miraculous

[@Cheetahgirl_Studios]

And more importantly... why didn’t he just re-akumatise Chloe into Queen Wasp and hire her as his personal soldier? Think about it: he had the Bee Miraculous RIGHT THERE. He could’ve kept the Miracle Box, turned Chloe into Queen Wasp, but only this time put her akuma somewhere else (like her spinning top). So now he has a rage fuelled, vengeful akuma at his disposal. I’m just saying. That’s what I would’ve done.

[@donflamingo5685]

@@Cheetahgirl_Studios honestly evil chloe has that godly drip. It'd be cool if she could deactivate the miraculous an "look" like her normal self. But in actuality she was an agent of hawkmoth. But every time she transformed it was into the akumatized version. That'd be terrifyingly smart. When Adrien and mari run to transform somewhere else they show her running to transform to help out.

[@Cheetahgirl_Studios]

@@donflamingo5685 Yeah! That would be cool!

[@drfrogscript]

It would've been so easy for Hawkmoth to win, this is all he has to do: Step One: Get Nathalie to help him (like with Catalyst but a different power) or take the risky route and get a stranger mad to help him. Step Two: akumatize them with the power to summon ANYTHING by force by writing it down on a piece of paper/typing it out or something. Step Three: Keep this akumatized villain secret and make sure they don't start wreaking havoc on the city, so that Ladybug and Cat Noir don't show up. Step Four: have the akumatized villain summon Ladybug and Cat Noir's Miraculouses from wherever they are. Step Five: De-Evilize them, and victory is mine! It's THAT EASY. AND YET SHADOWMOTH DOESN'T EVEN CONSIDER IT- Edit: or better yet, akumatize yourself/Nathalie with the power to bring people back to life. Or you could make a Sentimonster of Emilie and give her the amok but that would be more risky cause if the object was destroyed then it's be over. Speaking of which, why doesn't he just put an amok in a random pebble or grain of sand? NOBODY WOULD EVER FIND IT

[@leagontshole409]

What I don't get is how in S4, Marinette continues to give people like Max and Luka and even Nino Miraculous', even though ShadowMoth knows their secret identities, but she can't give one to Chloe anymore. It doesn't make sense. Isn't she putting them 'IN DANGER' by doing that. Miracle Queen ruined everything. It created so many plot holes and S4 isn't doing a good job of fixing them. Yes they're introducing new heroes whom ShadowMoth doesn't know but ShadowMoth still knows the identities of the old heroes. I also don't like Vesperia. I have nothing against Chloe's sister (even though she came out of nowhere) but I prefer Queen Bee over her. It was also nice to see Mari, Adrien, Alya, Chloe and Nino fight beside each other in Heroes' Day. S2 was the last good season.

[@kingmin9491]

When I saw this finale I thought that this was an excuse for them to write off all the previous heroes and have new ones like rose or jeluka ....ect But for some reason theye keep giving them the miraculouses again and again and hawkmoth who is an idiot doesn't take advantage of that except for Rena rouge !! Like whyyy??

[@leagontshole409]

@@kingmin9491 Hawkmoth is one of the dumbest villains ever written. He has a few smart moments but most of time, he’s just an idiot smh.

[@peonyanigroegbelleza4538]

@@leagontshole409 I agree like the episode where he literally akumatize a baby for being a baby like that was stupid

[@diseedee9821]

@@peonyanigroegbelleza4538 actually, in gigantitan he was trying to akumatize gorilla, but he calmed down and the akuma went to the baby, not trying to justify his stupidity anyways

[@peonyanigroegbelleza4538]

@@diseedee9821 yahhh,

[@ralola1]

Going to be real on a few things: I agree about Chloe. I think dumbing down her character to make Mari more likeable is shitty writing. Maybe idk... Write Mari better? Make her less of a psycho? Make her struggles feel like struggles instead of just a inconvenience? Because if he's writing Chloe down because he doesn't like her but yet he likes the emotionally unstable Mari... Then I can't help worry about his idea of love and healthy femininity. Because Mari is suppose to be his idea of the "ideal" girl, right? Which means that he likes psychologically abusive behavior and see's that as healthy romantic behavior. I actually feel more for Hawkmoth than I do Mari. I just wish we saw more scenes of him lamenting his situation and really feeling the weight of it. Because he's not evil, he does bad things but he does them because he loves his wife more than anything. I also feel like he pushes Adrian away because he reminds him of his wife and it just triggers him. I want to feel his emotional turmoil, I want to see the mental conflict. Because his character really reminds me of Varian from Rapunzel's Tangled Adventures (Great show btw 110% my guilty pleasure). But Varian's dad got stuck in a rock and he went to extreme lengths to save him because he felt like everyone abandoned him. He endangered everyone to save his father but you could see the emotional toll this had on him, you could feel it. With Hawkmoth they don't know if they want to make him crazy or sympathetic. One scene he looks like he's enjoying himself, the next scene he's a normal dude that might feel something for a solid second. But like I want him to have that character progression like Varian, where he's aware of his actions but feels helpless enough to do horrible things. Yeah but no, we got a brick that doesn't know what type of villian he is and is written to make dumb choices to make Lady Bug look good. He frustrates me. His whole character frustrates me. I really want LadyBug to lose, like once. First few seasons, cool. I can handle a lil bit of repetitiveness but 3 to 4 seasons in and still the same pattern? Rooting for a "perfect" character IS BORING. Like nothing feels like it's really in danger because we all know LadyBug will save the day. All the damage and problems are healed by the end of the episode, so it just doesn't mater because nothing has weight, nothing feels at stake. Fuck, even Adrian's dead mom doesn't feel urgent because she's preserved. Like I just want more drama, more suffering and humanizing scenes. You can't tell me Mari is learning and growing if we don't see her struggle. Because the most growth comes from loss, but Mari has a perfect life. She's loved, she has a secure home life and people like her. Her only problem is a first world problem and that's Adrian being the only dude not to be super attracted to her. OH NO. So sad.... I stopped caring about her thirst like halfway through season 2..... ALSO has anyone else noticed that this is based in France yet has no cultural context that grounds it in France? Like the only thing French is the Eifel Tower and some building designs. Beyond that it feels like America with a French background. It's really weird and I'd love to have more context to the environment. You don't have to give the harder details like the underage drinking and smoking but like show them not tipping. Or have a scene where someone like Chloes mom tries to tip a waiter but the waiter get super insulted because it's rude to tip in France. Or how about show what happens to Mari's fathers bakery during August when everyone goes on holiday. The French have way more vacation time that Americans, how does this impact the characters? How does that hit the bakery? I just want some basic research! It doesn't have to go hard into the history lesson but I'd like something that really grounds it in the world.

[@Hanin_Isa]

Chloe isn't the only character who gets screwed over by the narrative just to make Marinette look better. Kagami had also received the same treatment in 'Lies', even though she's a genuinely good person, unlike Chloe. Chat Noir and Hawk Moth were also dumbed down and made weaker to make Ladybug look smarter even though both Adrien and Gabriel aren't stupid by any means.

[@infinitedreamer9359]

This is something I haven't seen before as a criticism against Miraculous,but your right! The Paris setting and (and by extension French culture) culture has doesn't inform the characters,their actions,or their backstories at all. Why did they want to have this show set in France,when it doesn't make a difference to the narrative? I've seen more FANFICS that do more research on French culture and social norms/mores than the show itself does.

[@jaymontgomery8566]

it's funny that you point out the French thing, because I keep thinking the same thing. They keep pushing the most obvious things that are French to remind you that we are INDEED IN FRANCE to the point where I sometimes forget that this show is made bey actual French people and not outsiders who think this is what France and specifically Paris are like lmao

[@ceejay843]

As a person that lives in France, you are right. There is no French culture in the show.There is only the typical French stereotypes like the mustache, the Baguette, and the typical French music They really need to go to France or do some research... -from a French person

[@Featheryfaith7]

Like stepping on grass and gardens are a huge sin to the French. I heard you can get ticketed for it, especially in Paris. I forgot to mention it is because it is owned by Disney. So less culture.

[@animated_finn]

Notice how when Thomas wasn’t writing it Chloe had great character development, but when he came back Chloe just did a 180

[@sheninmypie]

thomas ruined the show

[@assiaelmabrouki5552]

Jeremy Zag almost saved this show but Astruc just had to come back to ruin it

[@michaelenglish9456]

I have the feeling that the writers wanted to downplay chloes achievement. Chloe was the first person to resist akumatazation. In season 4 both Alya and Nino resist getting akumatized. There the writers wanted to show to the audience that it’s nothing special to resist a akuma. I believe that the writers made this only to say “yeah remember we made Chloe do something special…yeah fuck that now it’s only possible by the “good” people of the show”. It’s just sad that the writers don’t understand their own character and make new ways to undermine them further. Hopefully we will avoid that stuff in the future.

[@47ratsinahoodie]

Well I wouldn't say Alya resisted hers so much as she broke free from it. Sure that takes willpower but she still let herself get akumatized.

[@elizack_8189]

They're picking favorites that's why

[@amirmokrane366]

Nope. Chloe wasn't akumatized but in the process. Alya and Nino literally broke free from the akumatization, like revoked the powers Hawkmoth gave them. Its different.

[@47ratsinahoodie]

@@amirmokrane366 Yeah but Nino and Alya were still weak enough to let themselves get akumatized in the first place. Ig you could make the argument that breaking out of an akumatization is impressive but the second you look at the fact that they got akumatized in the first place, it becomes less impressive. I haven't watched Nino's ep yet but I'm assuming it's the one where he thinks Alya likes Chat Noir? Alya got akumatized cause she felt entitled to knowing something about Marinette's life and if I'm right, Nino got akumatized because he for some reason thought that Alya liked Chat Noir. Those reasons are kinda dumb reasons to get akumatized for. Breaking out of them wouldn't be difficult. Alya, iirc, just understood that Marinette needs her help and trusts her even when she doesn't tell her everything or smth. Shouldn't she have known that last part in the first place? They're best friends and Marinette tells Alya practically everything anyway, how entitled to your friend's life can you get? If you think Nino and Alya's feats were more impressive, cool ig, but I'm always gonna give props to Chloe for not letting herself get akumatized in the first place (also it's been a while since I've watched that ep but I think she has a more legitimate reason than Alya and Nino to get akumatized, too)

[@amirmokrane366]

@@47ratsinahoodie hmm ya fair enough but I'm pretty sure the reason chloe didn't get akumatized isn't all that impressive either so. Also hawkmoth will akumatize anyone he can, doesn't care the reason, hoping to win unless he has a concrete plan.

[@SSMp315]

I’m only in Miraculous for Kagami, Luka angst, and Adrien’s entire arc Also all the side character miraculous designs.

[@marygraceoyangorin8918]

Eyyy me too. But minus luka but luka is also good too. He has personality in the new season

[@cyberhero5559]

I’m also hear for Chloe’s redemption(even though it may not happen)

[@fluffigefledermaus218]

I am there for the designs. I really wanna see if they're gonna screw up Orriko's design or not...

[@mnlightrse1609]

Kagami , Luka, and the side characters carry the show idc

[@moonknights2when91]

same but add marichat to that list. at this point i just read fanfics and comics lol

[@Rachel-bq3lj]

Just imagine, we through all that Chloe's tears and emotion just to see her become a BRAT again? Then they said that Chloe's is not deserve to be a hero or at least a good person? Watch the Queen Banana episodes where we see Ladybug just give Zoe.. ZOE who came of nowhere and she already using Bee Miraculous? Right after her introduction episodes? We even don't know much about her and she already becoming a hero? She IS not a hero, she is just a Chloe's half sister. Just imagine again, we've been watching this show for over 3 SEASON, *3 SEASON! And we just got a new hero out of nowhere???? This is ridiculous, UTTERLY RIDICULOUS*

[@47ratsinahoodie]

Yeah I feel like the only way they can really save the Zoe-gets-a-miraculous-in-a-day fiasco is if Zoe, being an actress, betrays Ladybug or Marinette, showing Marinette that someone who's nice, especially in comparison to Chloe, isn't necessarily going to be who they say and she shouldn't trust people with such important things so early on

[@marygraceoyangorin8918]

@@47ratsinahoodie I like that idea. Zoe being an actress and fooling ladybug is a great subversion

[@animatorireenie8319]

@@47ratsinahoodie This sounds legit like a great idea, unfortunately, the creators aren't smart enough for such twists...

[@aeyakieduenas1331]

@@47ratsinahoodie I need this fic

[@abhinandanapendyala4792]

@@47ratsinahoodie ooh thats so cool I wish they'd do it!!!

[@xitlalicsalazar9929]

*spoilers* when that guy who apparently trained master fuck showed up I was so excited and was like "finally! Marinette will finally get training and he could teach her and Adrian combat training". I was so excited to see growth from them but it has been so many episodes and he hasn't even been mentioned in forever. Like you show us a very interesting character but you still do nothing with him????

[@47ratsinahoodie]

Yeah I got used to that when they started barely using Lila

[@amirmokrane366]

Marinette was taught by Master Fu. + the guardian showed that he has nothing to teach her and can trust her. But if she fucks up again, his taking the box.

[@nbxanimator1683]

@@amirmokrane366 It's not like she hasn't already fucked the box in the new episodes

[@Black.Girl_Magic520]

Spoiler: They completely ruined his character ​@@amirmokrane366

[@v4verbatim]

Here's an idea: make Chloe the new guardian instead. That way, it gives her an opportunity to grow as a character, gives her something to do since she can't be queen bee anymore, and if Marinette can see that this character, a bully, is deemed worthy by her mentor instead of her, she would possibly work harder to improve herself? I don't know. Just an idea

[@aceofflames4572]

oh my gosh, I love this idea

[@mnlightrse1609]

my jaw dropped omg-I love this

[@scarxnnivs]

I love this idea, Chloe can definitely be a guardian if they didn't just frikin throw away her redemption arc

[@eIychia]

@@victorcornejo2689 He said ladybug Idk

[@mishussy]

That should be a fanfic thatd be badass

[@sapphirezx315]

Good rant! I feel bad for Chloe Bourgeois because of how she's treated by the writers (why even give her any sympathetic moments if the writers don't like her...) :/

[@infinitedreamer9359]

@Haya-ul-Osman Qazi Huh. Could you actually try to find out where you found this information about the writers? Because it would make sense if Thomas and the writers of the show weren't in agreement about what direction to take the characters and plot. It would explain the mess we got.

[@ScarlettUsagi]

Yeah

[@JamCat11]

@InfiniteDreamer I think the writers have to follow what Thomas wants but i'm not sure. Because surely somone would have disagreed but idk.

[@fae1283]

I fucking love Chloe as a whole In season 1 I disliked her but as soon as season 2 started I LOVE her. There's nothing sexier than an antagonist having a redemption arc, and Chloe is probably the realest character in the entire series

[@drawnwithlove3499]

@@fae1283 I would say the same if the writers didn't do an ass-backwards move and just make her an unlikable asshole in the next episode

[@sophieceleste4771]

I know you hate Tikki and how she is used, but to be honest when Cloé got the bee miraculous for the first time I remember thinking: "Damn maybe Pollen can be like Tikki to Mari and help Cloés character develop into a better person. " ... BUT NOOOOOPE

[@Popgurliess]

I woud've loved to see that but noo of course not!

[@Fantasticbrownie99]

Whattt why does he hate tikki 😭

[@sophieceleste4771]

@MJ-uh6pu I mean, I don't really remember. But it could be because she's kind of encouraging bad behavior in Marinette and also that she's giving bad advice in general. I mean, I think it used to be good, but honestly, I don't really remember. I mean, even my answer is now two years old, holy fudge. I did not realize that. The whole show feels like a blur to me now. If you want to know, keep watching his reviews. They are pretty good.

[@sophieceleste4771]

@@Fantasticbrownie99 I kind of think the recent episodes show that she is in no way guiding marinette in the right direction. Which you could argue is kind of silly from a being that is older than time itself. She should know better.

[@redandblue3316]

I am not totally sure but as I know Thomas Astruc was away from writing for a while when Chloe got a character development. After when he comeback they just completly threw Chloe's character away.

[@spectre9340]

I'm still mad that the writers couldn't give us a semblance of Miraculous Five (Ladybug, Chat Noir, Rena Rouge, Carapace and Queen Bee). It would've been perfect for Chloé's redemption and would make the Identity Reveals™ more interesting if we got to see how they'd all balance their real life relationships and keeping their secrets from everyone else. But at this rate, Chloé's character development is going to keep comprising of her making one step forward, two steps back and the reveal might not happen til the very last episode :/

[@victoriaescobedo5458]

I think the stakes would've been raised much higher if the M5 were the only heroes and Hawkmoth took the rest of the miraculous

[@ScarlettUsagi]

Yeah

[@spectre9340]

@@victoriaescobedo5458 right? There's so many Miraculous holders now and it's just like what Syndrome said in The Incredibles. "And when everyone's super, no one will be." Like, the other Miraculous holders have much more OP powers and it's making it hard for me to believe that Ladybug and Chat Noir should be the most powerful ones. Hawkmoth should just steal any of the other ones at this rate.

[@aperson5428]

not the tm 😭 🤚

[@miss_chelles1338]

@@victoriaescobedo5458 now THAT would be an interesting story.

[@AGD_AwkwardGameDev]

Miraculous is like watching a promising student who seemed like they could cure cancer, end up as a meth addict living under a bridge. It's a bit sad to look at, but you don't want to get too close to them fearing you'll get herpes.

[@adraabouji1937]

Miraculous is like watching a kind man who plays violin in his youtube channel,end up as an obese person crying for views. If you know who I'm talkinga b out

[@DOJAISTHEBESTTTTTT]

I love when Cyrus fight with that random dog while ranting

[@littlesparrow303]

I always thought it was his actual dog every time 😂😂 It still make me laugh a lot

[@eyelove_owlcity]

Actually, it is my dog. Her name is Jenny. She's a scooby-doo type dog lol

[@Kakuyawolf3456]

@@eyelove_owlcity Great Danes am I right?

[@eyelove_owlcity]

@@Kakuyawolf3456 yep

[@hastifirouspour5883]

Another thing I hate about this episode is that how the fandom started hating on adrien because he decided to move on from ladybug. I don't know what's wrong with this fandom When chat noir flirts with ladybug they say it's unhealthy and needs to stop but when he moves on they start hating on him I can't wait to hear your thoughts about season 4 In my opinion it's frustrating Rena rouge has more screen time than chat noir in season 4 Ladybug gives all of her classmate and even the holders that they identity was revealed a miraculous and it's all excused by the fact that because she is the new guardian so she can do whatever she wants which doesn't make any sense for me because it is still dangerous for them to have miraculous The only reason that marinette is better in season 4 is because she doesn't have enough time to stalk on adrien but she didn't really change And I think by the end of the season almost everyone finds out ladybug's identity before chat noir But chat noir can't know beacause it's dangerous 😒😒😒 This show doesn't make any sense I really wish chat noir had his own show and I would be okay if marinette ended up with luka and stay away from adrien

[@fictions_in_motion_07]

I think it's safe to say that I disagree with the last part where she should get together with Luka. Marinette doesn't deserve to be in a relationship. With a character like that, I wouldn't date her in any way, because she is a creep. She needs to first get a reality check when it comes to love.

[@elizack_8189]

@@fictions_in_motion_07 I second this

[@hastifirouspour5883]

@@fictions_in_motion_07 I understand and I agree But luka doesn't have any problems with marinette's toxic behavior and always call her amazing every five seconds 🙄🙄🙄 When she was dating luka she had pictures of adrien all over her room and even all of her friends knew that she actually likes adrien but luka was totally ok with the fact that he is a second option That's a thing that i don't like about luka he doesn't have any self respect . He is a totall simp for marinette. He never gets angry at her and don't call her out on her mistakes Luka is just a portray of imaginary boyfriend that girls like marinette wants And I get annoyed that he still thinks marinette is the most extordinary girl despite all the horrible things she has done to him

[@ClaudetteVioletta]

Those people saying he is problematic, hate Marinette right?

[@TinyPaxan]

Marinette somewhat developed in Season 4. Since she has more responsibility, she has to be more mature.

[@Venelyne_R]

The fact that i found a place were people have the same opinion as me is simply amazing❣

[@atnightshieldcastle1478]

Truly. Just give it a minute.

[@officialtechnostan2181]

Me too

[@eyyobabygurluwu5597]

🥺 oh my god PLEAS feelin the same way HELP when I try to voice out my opinion it immediately gets downgraded 🙄😌 the frustration I have towards this show yet keep coming back like nothing 😋✌

[@hakunayotataslol]

@@eyyobabygurluwu5597 I feel you, but the moment someone attempts to downgrade me about this topic, is usually a debate/topic I win. (Where was this confidence yesterday when I was arguing with my brother on who had the tv remote last? Idk.)

[@Ich-Existiere-Nicht]

I feel you

[@miracles4219]

Season 3 ladybug: sorry Chloe but hawkmoth knows your identity so its too dangerous for me to give you a miraculous. Season 4 ladybug: *gives miraculous to the same people even tho hawkmoth knows their identity* So yeah the writers just wanted to make Chloe bad again. The rule about ladybug not being able to give you a miraculous if hawkmoth knows who you are is complete bs

[@EmilyTheOtakuofficial]

Fr. It pisses me off.

[@AuroraTheWoIf]

Also season 4 ladybug: *tells her identity to Alya, teaches her everything she knows AND gives her a miraculous permanently, while knowing that hawkmoth knows Alya's identity and that he could target her to know about ladybug. Also not learning from this mistake*

[@miracles4219]

@@AuroraTheWoIf if I was hawkmoth I would just kidnap every miraculous owner he knows and blackmail ladybug for it.

[@windscreen3335]

I'm sure it ended like this only because Marinette doesn't like Chloe.

[@inplane9970]

I love Chloe a lot because she makes mistakes even as a hero. Realistically, everyone would go straight to using superpowers to their own benefit before actually helping others. S2 solidified her character by letting her make up for her mistakes and learn the basics of being a Miraculous user. Even the main 2 didn't have this much depth.

[@ayohavenhere4963]

I seriously hate how they did Chloe so dirty out of the blue. Like wtf?! Edit: This is out of context but like, did someone observe that Marinette has put milk before cereal?

[@monaalona4744]

Where

[@ayohavenhere4963]

@@monaalona4744 When Cyrus talks about Marinette at the start you can see a clip of Marinette putting milk in the bowl and then grabbing the cereal.

[@Ch3eSy_Cheesecake]

@@ayohavenhere4963 I do that too tho

[@monaalona4744]

@@ayohavenhere4963 oh ok thx

[@ayohavenhere4963]

@@Ch3eSy_Cheesecake I honestly don't mind it, if you do it then good for you. I used to do it too

[@dynaman7329]

I think Thomas was trying to pull a Majin Vegeta with Chloe, but it was executed poorly. In DBZ during the Buu saga, Vegeta submitted himself to Babadi's magic to not only become stronger than his rival Goku, but to become the ruthless warrior he was before. Even while under the influence of Babadi's magic, Vegeta refused to listen to the wizard and eventually used the power boost to fight Majin Buu and sacraficed his life to stop Buu. Now if Thomas didn't want Chole to be a hero, why not just write her off the show for awhile. I'm not saying the Miraculous crew should have killed Chloe off at the end of season 3, but give her one last hurrah as a hero. Imagine if Chloe turned on Hawkmoth at the last second and used her Akuma powers to help Ladybug and Chat Noir, but during the battle Chole resevies a devistating blow that puts her into a coma and its unclear when she'll wake up. Later at the hospital (if they even exist in Miraculous Ladybug) Chloe's parents and class visits Chole and leaves Gladiolus flowers (a symbol for heroism) by her bed. During the visit, Audrey tries to hold it together but eventually breaksdown and is consolted by Andre. After everyone leaves the hospital room, Ladybug and Chat Noir enter and promise to take down Hawkmoth and Mayura so that Chloe's sacrafice wasn't in vain. Before leaving Ladybug leaves the Bee Miraculous behind and asks Pollen to watch over Chole. If this how season 3 ended, it could've done the following: 1. Complete Chole's character arc from bully to good person and hero. 2. Give Sabrina a chance in the spotlight in the next season. 3. Adrien becomes more serious as Chat Noir and it makes Marinette worry that he'll become Chat Blanc. 4. Audrey visits Chole constantly and reflects on her treatment of her. Vowing to become a better mother when Chole awakens from her coma.

[@47ratsinahoodie]

I love this, especially Marinette acknowledging Chat Blanc, Sabrina having time to learn about herself away from Chloe, and Chloe being someone Ladybug is proud of, even if just for a little while. These are all things I've wanted from the show for some time now

[@donflamingo5685]

No cap that'd take that whole finale to a 10...alright not a ten but like an 8. Would slice through the bullshit like a hot knife through butter.

[@Cosmic_Espeon]

And then in a climactic fight against Shadow Moth, who has defeated all the holders and is about to get the Ladybug Miraculous, he stands over Ladybug telling her about how hard she tried yet only achieved failure and now she has granted his only wish. Just as he’s about to remove her earrings you see a yellow trompo strike him on the hand and he looks up, shock on his face. “No, it’s not possible!” And as the trompo is retracted, Queen Bee gives him a smirk. “Not probable, nothing is impossible. It took me being akumatized to realize what a terrible person I’ve been. I have no excuses for what I’ve done but you… you are an awful person. And it’s time we take your miraculous from you!” Too bad Thomas Asstruck is a horrible writer.

[@Zarola]

@@47ratsinahoodie Sabrina gets Akumatized again because of not having Chloe bossing her around and she hasn't made connections outside of Chloe in class. Feeling isolated and alone for days to weeks after the finale. Coz honestly the whole class is extremely cliquey and it would happen. Like she irrationally thinks if she has a "best friend" not-Chloe as a betrayal of her in a comatose state. Different Sabrina villian character with new Amok and in the end she gets support to reach out to her peers and that Chloe would like for her to not wallow in the hospital. Maybe even helping Audrey a little as well to see more than Adrien and Sabrina visiting her daughter more often. But then again, it would get screwed up into a Chloe-bashing instead of just focusing on Sabrina finally making herself seperate from Chloe's shadow.

[@somethings1599]

Such development makes little sense. Chloe wanted her status of being superhero and Ladybug denied her that. Chloe had no reason to double-cross Hawkmoth. That's why Hawkmoth have chose Chloe as his paw. She was part of his plan since "Miraculer". Chloe said that It's Hawkmoth is Ladybug's enemy, not hers. And it it was always like that. Chloe just wanted her revenge.

[@roxaroo]

So Adrien's mom and Felix's mom are identical twins. Ok. But how can it be that their sons are also identical twins as of their looks? Is that even biologically possible? :T

[@jwinnard]

Yes But the chances Pretty much impossible It’s more likely that either they mainly took their mother’s genes, their fathers are also identical twins (so the gene set isn’t that varied) or they, by some rare chance, are doppelgänger twins

[@47ratsinahoodie]

@@jwinnard Or Gabe cheated

[@jwinnard]

@@47ratsinahoodie true But it would still be unluckily to be like that A. They hate each other (other that could also mean they did cheat) B. Twins can still look SO different in eyes, hair, face shape, jawline, natural body type

[@47ratsinahoodie]

@@jwinnard Yeah, maybe he's just Adrien's model with different hair and clothes and we're looking too deep into the crew's laziness (it's possible it's a budget thing but this show puts little regard into designs anyway so laziness is an option)

[@jwinnard]

@@47ratsinahoodie tbh I think now you’ve said it, laziness is probably the option Which is just sad tbh

[@Jay-ch5xu]

I actually thought Chloe was gonna betray Hawkmoth, not for anything else but the audacity that Hawkmoth actually thinks that just because Chloe can never be Queen Bee, she'd willingly help him take down Ladybug and carry out his evil plans. She's bratty and self-absorbed, but there're lines even she won't cross. Maybe in the past, she would have, and her choice to stand against Hawk Moth would've cemented her change. Growing that girl who endangered lives for attention to outsmarting the villain without the need for Ladybug for planning while staying Chloe that it wasn't for anything heroic, but as revenge that Hawk Moth thought so little of her.

[@strawberrychocolate9383]

The finale is a perfect example of lazy writing. Miraculous tries to talk about big topics, but they just gloss over them. Talking about bullying? Chloe is just mean, we don't see her bullying Marinette. Marinette always has a comeback for Chloe's mean remarks, they don't effect Marinette, only in Zombizoe she got angry, not sad, angry. Lila is a perfect bully. Trying to turn everyone against Marinette. Then again Marinette gets angry and doesn't get akumatized. Redeeming a character? Chloe is back to being Chloe. Hawkmoth lost the audience's empathy in Chat Blanc. Cultural variation? Marinette is supposed to be half Chinese. We don't even see her reconnect with her roots in the Shanghai special. And we don't see her learn Chinese which will give her a real opportunity to be closer to Adrien. She is just European in our eyes when we're not reminded of her roots. Just putting characters of different origins in a show isn't showing cultural variation. Depression and stress? We only see Marinette break down 2 times. She has been Ladybug for a whole year (4 seasons). And we see her and Adrien juggle their life perfectly fine with their responsibilities. In the official Miraculous manga you can see Adrien cry in Bubbler because of his loneliness. We didn't see that in Bubbler. Having a crush/ being in love? Nope just obsession Rejection? Nope still obsession Having a healthy partnership and having gender equality? Nope, Ladybug is more important than Chat. She doesn't trust him (season 4 spoiler Gang of secrets: revealing herself to someone else (who is a girl) instead of going to Chat (who is a guy) to talk about her difficult superhero life) , doesn't support him and only uses him as support (Why should women support men? Only men need to support women.), rejects him while she keeps flirting with him and doesn't communicate to him what she does, as partners should do, to be on the same page. We also don't see them bond and become a stronger duo. We just see them fight bad guys together. He just follows her blindly because that is what men are supposed to do, follow women blindly. (I'm being sarcastic by the way. ) (season 4 spoiler) If they gloss over the Ladynoir fight, I'll be furious. Hawkmoth can come and akumatize me.

[@47ratsinahoodie]

I get especially upset when I get reminded that Marinette has so many moments with extreme emotions and just. *_doesn't_* get akumatized like what???

[@strawberrychocolate9383]

@@47ratsinahoodie Yep Tikki somehow calms her down. For a character who's main negative trait is being overemotional, she doesn't get akumatized. Honestly, if they wanted Marinette to be awesome they should've made her resist Hawkmoth's akumatization and not Chloe. And if you think about it, wouldn't it be fun to see Hawkmoth try again and again to akumatize her and she is just like: "Hey Hawky, not tired of trying? Yeah I'm mad but I can deal with this on my own. Or, B**ch I'm having a sad moment here, go akumatize someone else."

[@Luuni100]

i heavily agree with your first point. im tired of all these kid shows having the stereotypical dumb, blonde, popular bully. its stupid and unrealistic and it would be a breath of fresh air if they decided to actually give chloe redemption. in reality you meet 50 other kids like chloe in school, they’re not always mean to that extreme since some kids are just assholes by nature

[@infinitedreamer9359]

That last part about gender equality and how the show treats LB and Chat overall is something I really agree with.The show's narrative keeps telling us ad nasum that LB and CN are equally important,but that's just not true. Ladybug is the ONLY one who can turn the akumas back,not Chat. Which doesn't make sense,if both of the Miraculous they wield are equal in power, wouldn't it make more sense if the ability to purify akumas was something they had to do together by combining their powers? And speaking of abilities, they don't do combo attacks with each other either,which would've been a good way of showing them bonding if we had scenes of them sparring together. Then there's the fact that Ladybug,not Chat is the only one allowed to know about Miraculous lore and the fancy Miraculous tricks(like the potions) and for some reason,she doesn't bother telling Chat about these things after the lessons either Neither does she bother informing him or trying to get his opinion on the various Miaraculous wielders she wants to recruit. Like why does Chat never get any kind of say on or is allowed to know the identities of these people she lets into the group?He's supposed to be her partner and equal and he doesn't get an opinion on something as big as that? Why? And last thing is that Ladybug automatcally knows how to fight and use her Miraculous or any others with any kind of training,but when CN has trouble when he swaps Miraculouses,she hounds him for it. At this point,I'm wondering why Ladbug even needs Chat as a partner at all. With how she's been up this point and how constantly Chat's written as incompetent she seems she can do everything by herself as a solo hero.

[@47ratsinahoodie]

@@infinitedreamer9359 Exactly, I roll my eyes when Ladybug says anything along the lines of, "I couldn't do this without you, Chat Noir," and I'm like, you so very clearly could. Chat does the most trivial things in the battles. Truth really pissed me off cause all his did was angle a makeshift mirror. Ladybug could have just aimed the sentimonster directly back at Truth instead of trying to be unnecessarily convoluted

[@turquoiseninju7]

19:08 That didn't just make the episode bad, that scene made the WHOLE SERIES bad.

[@eyelove_owlcity]

Yep

[@Tediez_the_honored_one]

Master **** abandon his own kwami's and i well never forgive him for at!

[@kaythedumb1170]

Getting this off my chest, I never understood how people glossed over the Miracular episode. What I mean is, yes, the execution of Chloe having to relinquish her miraculous was done poorly, but it still happened. She understood Ladybug's reasons and gave her miraculous up. Then in the finale, we see her still waiting for Ladybug to give her the bee miraculous as if they never had the conversation about why Chloe could no longer be Queen Bee. I feel like it wouldn't make sense if the episodes switched order because after the major change in Chloe during the finale, it wouldn't be that easy for Chloe to just accept her fate the way she did. They just wanted an excuse to wipe away all of Chloe's character development and it's so frustrating. There was no point. If they didn't want to give Chloe a redemption arc, what was the point in getting our hopes up just to abandon Chloe's development?!?!?! The only thing keeping Chloe from changing is the writers themselves.

[@bessieburnet9816]

Miraculor was the one episode that kept the juicy potential brought up in the Queen Bee trilogy. The rest of the season totally ignored them.

[@redballoon9007]

Yeah, that never stood right with me. It’s a great example of how the writers cherry pick what character moments to ignore and which ones to keep.

[@godzillaboy011]

Don't forget the fact that Chloe needs her miraculous to save her parents I mean, that's true love there. She cares about her parents and wants to save them. It's her responsibility to save them but no Ladybug has to choose the dragon miraculous because KAGAMI IS ABOUT TO KISS ADRIAN! I- WHAT!? You chose Kagami because she's about to kiss Adrian. What is wrong with you?? You can't choose Chloe because everyone knows her identity but Kagami? That's unfair to Chloe! Everyone knows Kagami too and you tell her to not be the Ryugo again but you did anyway because she's about to Adrian. It's not her responsibility to save Mr. and Mrs. Bourgeois, Chloe is. BUT YOU DON'T WANNA BECAUSE SHE'S ABOUT TO KISS ADRIAN Can I kill you, Ladybug? Please!

[@47ratsinahoodie]

Yeah, imagine how it would feel seeing your parents in danger, knowing there's something you can do about it, but having to rely on someone else to decide, "Hm, maybe I _should_ let this person save their own parents"? Mari really fucked up with that. Worst part is, I *_bet_* that if Chloe was the one hanging out with Adrien or being consoled by him, Ladybug would not hesitate for a second to give her the bee miraculous

[@godzillaboy011]

@@47ratsinahoodie definitely

[@amirmokrane366]

Ladybug said that she can't give Chloe her miraculous anymore in one of the episodes (forgot which) cuz her identity isn't a secret anymore. And yes I get that Hawkmoth knows the identities of all the heroes in Season 4 but eh.

[@sarahemilywhite]

What's even worse is that Hawkmoth knew who the holder of the dragon miraculous was......

[@godzillaboy011]

@@sarahemilywhite and Marinette is like, "Oh no! Kagami is about to kiss my husband, I must use the dragon miraculous so she can't kiss my Adrian" OH MY GOD CAN WE KILL HER!?

[@joweeeeeeeeeeeee]

Chloes redemption arc got shafted because the original writer of the show, Thomas Astruc, wasn’t part of a lot of the writing in season 2. Thomas like despises Chloe for little to no reason. Basically the season 2 writers gave Chloe a redemption arc and when Astruc came back in season 3 he reverted Chloe back to how she was when he was writing in the first season.

[@Roxy_uwu_]

The thing I hate the most about these two episodes is the fact that the fandom blames everything on Chloè. Ladybug had to call her instead of Ryuko, both because Love eater were her parents, but also because Queen Bee's venom could have made things easier. If it hadn't been Hawkmoth himself who decided to deakumize Love eater, it wouldn't have been easy to defeat them.

[@Roxy_uwu_]

The identity has nothing to do with it because Hawkmoth also knows Ryuko's. Oh, and I wanted to point out one thing: getting Kagami away from Adrien didn't do any good because they got together anyway.

[@godzillaboy011]

YES!!! FINALLY!!! I can finally get to hear why -Miracle- Nightmare Queen is the worst finale ever

[@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaDooplivian]

Nightmare Queen? Damn that would be such a great name for an akuma!

[@godzillaboy011]

@@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaDooplivian yeah you're actually right

[@justinreyes7495]

DUUUUDE, I have my own story with this episode man. No joke, I literally DROPPED the series because of this finale, I was fucking done. Good thing Chat Blanc came out right after and ended up being literally one of the best episodes in the series, making me pick it back up lmao. I can't stress how lucky it was that Chat Blanc came out after this god-awful finale lmaooo

[@sirnutaku7716]

New drinking game: Drink everytime Cyrus says shut up in a video Update: DON'T, TRUST ME DON'T I REGRET IT

[@aroeenafaith5519]

*CHUG* *CHUG* *CHUG*

[@jjmabc273]

Drink water :D

[@catlovingperson8143]

On the Russian side of fanfiction world there is a slang “Yung author”, which means an author who writes bad cliched stories about extremely cool or extremely nice main character surrounded by an annoying loud bestie, perfect crush, bad bad bully, bully’s pets, bratty prick, annoying teachers, etc. They usually do it just to run away from self-esteem issues and grey life, and don’t claim they are making next “Crime and Punishment”, but at the same they can’t accept any criticism, attack/block/insult anyone who doesn’t like their work. This is who Thomas reminds me of, except that he does claim Miraculous is worthy of being treasured as somewhat life changing

[@kawaiiblossom8278]

I just wanna list some ways they could have written her redemption arc, there are so many ways they could have as well 1 - Have Chloe's mum leave for New York in Queen Wasp. Have her be devastated in Maladictator about it and her dad trying to help by buying her nice things however it doesn't work so he gets akumatisied. Chloe hides from Maladictator out of fear. Later on the same thing happens with Chat Noir being hit by Maladictator and Ladybug getting the Bee miraculous and plans on giving it to Alya again however when passing by The hotel she realises that Chloe may be in danger and looks for her. She hears crying in the wardrobe so Ladybug opens it to find Chloe crying. When Ladybug asks Chloe whats wrong at first shes hesitant and doesn't say anything but when Ladybug asks again, Chloe breaks down crying explaining hows shes just a useless burden on everyone's shoulders and that no matter what she does her mum will never care about her. Ladybug seeing another side of Chloe and not wanting her to be alone offers her to be Queen Bee again however she refuses saying she will just mess everything up again however Ladybug says she trusts her so she becomes Queen Bee and saves the day. She apologises to her dad for the way she has been treating him and begins to improve her relationships with those around her such as Sabrina and eventually warms up to everyone else. As for her being Queen Bee again Ladybug explains that she can no longer be Queen Bee and accepts that saying "Thanks for believing in me when nobody else could". 2 - Have everyone leave her because of her toxic behaviour which will cause her to have a internal conflict and accept that her bad behaviour isn't good so she would want to change. 3 - Have Chloe kidnapped by the villains who offer her to join them and betray Ladybug however have her stay true to her convictions and morals and refuse to join them. Realising that villains wanted her to join them because of her unheroic nature so she would want to become someone who people can look up to when there's danger when shes Queen Bee and a good example to those around her like Marinette is in her civilian form 4 - In the season 3 finale have Chloe get away with the Bee Miraculous and use it to fight crime on her own. Ladybug and the police are searching for her so she feels that she cant go home so she has to sleep on rooftops and the streets. Chloe is given money by some strangers which allows her to buy food and water. Chloe begins to appreciate her old life more as shes realises how alone she is, she misses everyone she used to take for granted like Sabrina. Chat Noir/Adrian is really worried about Chloe and searches for her every night. Chat Noir eventually find Queen Bee who's helping an old women who was being robbed. Chloe is exhausted and quite malnourished. Chat Noir begs Chloe to come back home and that he cares about her however she refuses telling him that he doesn't really care and just wants the miraculous back. Chat Noir now desperate knowing that Chloe will run away and knowing that she could die on the streets transforms and reveals himself to Chloe. Adrian assures Chloe that he does truly care about her and doesn't want her to get hurt. Chloe detransform's and decides to hand herself in and the miraculous. Ladybug didn't tell the authorities about how she worked with Hawkmoth and stole a miraculous so Chloe isnt arrested. Chloe's views on being a hero have changed from being awesome to being a huge responsibility and accepts that she cant be a hero. Shes back to her normal life now having a new appreciation for those around her. There are so many more ways and them just reversing everything was just pure laziness IMO. The season 3 finale just proved to me that no character up to that point has gone through any meaningful change or development becaus everyone is back on square 1. Hawkmoths plan was also extremely stupid, he got the miracle box and gave it to a child when he could have kept it for himself and used the miraculouses to win. God I hate this finale

[@abhinandanapendyala4792]

This was such a great idea, too bad the writers aren't capable of doing it :/

[@crazyformyself9773]

Please reply to comment so I confine later. Inspo for fanfic (you are a genius and will be credited if/once written)

[@crazyformyself9773]

Can find**

[@kawaiiblossom8278]

@@crazyformyself9773 alright then

[@Fantasticbrownie99]

@@crazyformyself9773hi

[@StrangerINC]

After watching Chloe work alongside ladybug in malediktator I fell in love with the once snobbish spoiled near she slowly became my favorite character but everything changed when miracle queen happened one thing I can give kudos to the writers for is making Zoe vesperia rather than the flat out the new queen bee...there is only one queen bee and hopefully one day she will be able to spread her wings again.

[@47ratsinahoodie]

Considering each individual picks their hero name, I don't think it's all too good on the writers' part making Zoe have a name that isn't Queen Bee but I otherwise agree

[@infinitedreamer9359]

I seriously question why the writers in Season 4 didn't just make Sabrina the replacement for the Bee Miraculous Wielder(after development, growth, and buildup for Sabrina of course) instead pulling a new character out of their asses. It's been implied that Chloe basically uses and abuses Sabrina,so it would've been interesting to see the reasons behind why she stuck with Chloe despite that treatment and how the events of Miracle Queen would've changed her perception of her. Not to mention, it would've been a nice thematic parallel to have the person that Chloe treated like shit the most, rise up out of Chloe's shadow and be her own person and a hero in her own right.

[@StrangerINC]

@@infinitedreamer9359 I would definitely rather Sabrina take the bee miraculous then them inventing a new characters to take it, I think Chloe might even approve.

[@fluffigefledermaus218]

If the writers are going to stick with Zoe (who I personally am okay with, unpopular opinion I know) I hope they give chloe at least a different miraculous. Like Orriko (the rooster one). This would give Chloe a second chance at being a super hero and maybe. *maayyybeee* she'll keep her identity a secret now. ... Oh who am I kiddin' the writers all hate chloe, why should they give her a miraculous again, that play into redemption again, oh no! /s

[@StrangerINC]

@@fluffigefledermaus218 I know this is nuts but....I wouldn't mind seeing Chloe take tikki for a spin not a permanent role but I want her to experience being lady bug since she dresses up like her and admires her.

[@lemoncheesecake7267]

I'm slow starting to realize how strange this series is. I thought it was a good show at first, but watching your videos really started to wake me up

[@kavo1460]

WAKE ME UP INSIDE! And it‘s similar for me, exept that I actively searched for content like this after being really disappointed by the 3 season and now 4 season :,) It‘s an absolute crumbling mess

[@krys9463]

If they wanted Mari to be obsessed they should have set up why she would be like this, because blaming teenage hormones isn't good enough or at all, yes you become girl or boy crazy but it should never result in stalking or other alarming behavior. Like what if instead of having a nice and loving parents why not make her an orphan who is starved for love and attention, so when she has her first crush she has no idea on how to deal with it. Her friends at some point tell her that she's being a bit much, then fights an enemy that has the exact same problem as her and realizes that she needs to change or else she might accidentally push people away (or end up in prison). Thus she begins to change for the better as a person and her crush on Adrien becomes healthier and it can easily just be a friendship.

[@williamfinch9858]

True. At least Chloe’s flaws could be explained by her upbringing, but what about Marinette’s flaws?

[@lilythyvggg5819]

It gets explained in season 5 episode 14 derision

[@cannabishornliu6119]

Chloe: Looses her Miraculous because her identity was revealed. Meanwhile every other miraculous holder that was revealed in Miracle Queen like Alya: Thanks that you gave me my Miraculous Ladybug.

[@noreenaddilla2343]

Not a fan of alya but she makes hawkmoth thinks she's not rena any more

[@coolkidsclubo]

They also ruined Chole's character way worst in Season 4.

[@lilythyvggg5819]

She’s waaaaaay worse in the 5th season 😂

[@fan3425]

I notice the writing for early season had two writers for each episode while later seasons have way more. It will explain why early season had better focus and better pacing then later ones.

[@melanien.7482]

I watched this finale before bed and it literally ruined my night it was so bad

[@XxNinjaKuribohxX]

I'm just not a fan of Marinette's hypocrisy. She says she can't give Chloe the miraculous again because hawk moth knows who she is and yet she turns around and gives Kagami the dragon miraculous because she wants to get her away from Adrien even though Chloe was the right choice in that moment. It just makes me more mad that she continues to do this in season 4.

[@chakr.a]

I hope she gets her karma or dumped🌝

[@janusgreenway5137]

Chloe was the better choice? How?

[@XxNinjaKuribohxX]

@@janusgreenway5137 Keep in mind, both Kagami and Chloe had their identity exposed so really if Marinette was keeping to her rule, she shouldn't have given either girl a miraculous and picked another person. Regardless, she picked Kagami, not because of Kagami's skills or because her abilities as Ryoko would be key, but because she wanted to get her away from Adrien. Kagami only helped because Ladybug, an important hero, asked her, while Chloe wanted desperately to help because her parents were in trouble. Granted, it isn't Chloe's job to help, but that's what heroism is. It never is your job to help but you do it anyway for the people you care about. From there it makes sense why Chloe became bad again, because time and time again Ladybug ignored her when she wanted to help (for the wrong reasons mind you) but even when she wanted to help for the right reasons she was still ignored because of Marinette's jealousy towards Kagami. I won't say Chloe becoming Miracle Queen is Marinette's fault, because the bad decisions of others are their own but if Marinette is going to go back on her rules, she should pick the person with the right motivation to win. That is the point the series has pushed since season 1 when Marinette misused her powers in the bubbler and when Adrien kept failing time and time again as Aspik. If you want to talk about powers and skills of the two girls, and if one was a better choice then the other, I couldn't tell you. Anything can happen in the show depending on the writers. I mean Ladybug won with a fork once, so it really can just be up to her imagination on how she wants to use the things around her and the ability of the team. Also sorry if this is really long, I'm just genuinely wanting to explain my thoughts, and of course you're free to think and feel however you want about it. If you believe Kagami was better and Chloe would have been horrible that is perfectly fine, or if you think someone else would have been better then of course that works too.

[@janusgreenway5137]

@@XxNinjaKuribohxX Well I think Chloe's venom would have worked better so...yeah. I understand you completely. You're also quite easy to respect unlike others that would say "you're dumb Chloe deserves it you fake Miraculous fan". So it's cool. I respect your opinion.

[@XxNinjaKuribohxX]

@@janusgreenway5137 right back at you! And fandoms can be toxic but we all enjoy the show even if we find flaws, there is no need for any of that stuff.

[@hl1342]

I kinda wish Felix was Cat Noir. Don’t get me wrong. I love Adrien. He’s awesome and needs more screen time, but I would like to see a Catnoir who’s, well Felix. He has that darker personality that I would like to see more of.

[@Featheryfaith7]

He is going to steal the miraculous. No doubt. He put cheese behind Adrien's pillow, trying to catch Plagg. I think he knows about Plagg and the miraculouses. He is the studious dark loner type afterall.

[@cuppops8695]

He was originally, but the writers wrote it off bc it didnt align with their adrienette agenda

[@egbert-3]

Actually he was going to be chat noir in the anime version of 2011, but sadly it got cancelled because the creators didn't like that idea

[@hl1342]

@@egbert-3 I actually know about that, that’s why I wished Felix was Cat Noir.

[@Featheryfaith7]

He probably will maybe for one season. Adrien is not fit mentally for the miraculous atm. Remember Cat White.

[@yoshipool4208]

Saying "naughty girls" isn't sexiest. Cringy yes but far from sexiest.

[@ClaudetteVioletta]

@Josie Violett he's very sexist showing a female lead which only desiree is a boy, then claming she is a Great role model How do You managed to be sexist to girls AND boys at the same fucking TIME?!?

[@trevorfrenk4137]

@@ClaudetteVioletta i’m sorry if this is a stupid question, but why is he still the director? Everyone hates him - no one has the power to remove him?

[@Featheryfaith7]

Get woke, go broke!

[@eyelove_owlcity]

I was just joking, actually

[@Awesometdsplayer]

@@eyelove_owlcity what a f***ing plot twist

[@littlesparrow303]

I’n so happy you love Felix as much as me!! I hated that Thomas would tweet back then if you talk about Felix a cat dies. I love Felix bc his interactions, motivation, being sneaky, smart, him dodging all the attacks & him saying naught girls 😍 I heard he’ll come back 3 times in S4. Party crashed is the worst episode. Just feels like a filler. Miracle Queen does bring down Chloe a lot. In S4 a lot more ppl are able to resist the akuma on their own but yes Chloe did it first. Even the 86th floor channel that has Miraculous cosplayers. 1 of them does Chloe & when they watched the S3 finale. She even was talking about what Chloe was struggling & was upset on what they did to her too. Thank you that you said that building up Chloe was a waste. Which is true!!! That’s a good idea that S3 finale as Infinity war & S4 as endgame would have been so cool. However in S4 we do see Marinette face consequences so don’t worry

[@sleepieststella]

I only have one sentence for what they are doing with Chloe: They are trying too hard to make her unlikable.

[@anotsointelligableperson3466]

Marinette's toxic behaviour has toned down a lot in season 4

[@Michelle-zw8qi]

ya probably bc she is too busy with being the guardian and stuff

[@littlesparrow303]

@@Michelle-zw8qi which is a good thing that she is now focusing on other stuff

[@47ratsinahoodie]

Ig but I personally need it to be called out in show, and Alya's enabling too

[@Michelle-zw8qi]

@@47ratsinahoodie OMG yes

[@Luuni100]

she never really developed, her toxic behaviour was just magically gone. no one called her out and she never had a moment of self realisation

[@genzhours9466]

Once, my little sister was watching Miraculous on the TV while I was on my phone. She called my name to ask a question, and seemed to be going on a tangent instead of actually asking, so I told her to just say the question. "You know how everybody likes Ladybug? Why doesn't everybody like Cat Noir?" I told her that they do, we just see more of Ladybug. Being a child, she asked why. And I honestly could not give her an answer. The same conversation pretty much repeated the other day when we went clothes shopping and she was ecstatic over finding Ladybug costumes that included accessories, but started looking around for the Cat Noir costumes and asked why there weren't any. This is your demographic, Astruc. They are catching on.

[@Hanin_Isa]

I wouldn't have minded if Lila was used for yet another season finale, and here's why I think so. In the S2 finale, when she was akumatized by HM, she SMILED, meaning that she was happy that HM was gonna akumatize her. Then in 'Chameleon', she GRABBED the akuma and akumatized HERSELF. After that in 'Onichan', Hawk Moth was so impressed by how sinister this girl was and decided to make a deal with her. Not to mention she feels like she's more of a personal enemy to Marinette than Chloe has ever been. But guess what? Barely anything came out of this deal. And why is that? Because Thomas hates Chloe's guts so much that he decided to make HM become obsessed with recruiting Chloe to his side even though she was the ONLY character in the show to resist HM's influence BEFORE getting akumatized. Imagine if HM used Lila again in the S3 fimale. Imagine after stealing the Miracle Box, he goes to Lila and gives her the Fox Miraculous and then akumatizes her... Let me ask some logical questions: Why did Thomas introduce Lila if he insists that Chloe is 'irredeemable'? Why make Gabriel make a deal with Lila if they're not gonna make much of this 'deal'? It honestly makes Lila's character so underutilized and so useless. And a bit of a spoiler for season 4: Lila has yet to play a major role in ANY episode of this season. Meanwhile, two episodes were dedicated to make Chloe look as horrible as possible. That's how much Thomas hates Chloe and how much useless Lila's character is.

[@no910]

Hi Cyrus I am a new subscriber I agree with a lot of your opinions that's why I subscribed to you because you really speak FACTS you should keep uploading these videos because there are not many people in this fandom that really talk about these things

[@trevorfrenk4137]

he spits fax and i spit out my water cuz of how outta pocket he can be 😂

[@littlemonkey123]

petition to make chloe the protagonist

[@resindildapidos]

Where can is sign? 😀

[@littlemonkey123]

@@resindildapidos by liking

[@jernehfaithnaul9890]

I feel bad for the queen for me Chloe is a real queen

[@eyelove_owlcity]

Queen of sass

[@zionalbina691]

@@eyelove_owlcity Queen of Pollen you mean. Sass is Luka's kwami (jk)

[@bxllx1]

@@zionalbina691 but Luka and Chloe are made for each other

[@zionalbina691]

@@bxllx1 fair enough lol

[@Tediez_the_honored_one]

I also feel bad for Pollen she's Chloe kwami.

[@pinklamborghini1133]

I heard that a guy called Sebastien was the main writer of season 2 and gave Chloe her character developpement but ever since Thomas became the main writer of season 3 he just changed the whole thing about Chloe’s character. I guess he can’t develop a character as Sebastien did or have some issues with a 14 years old fictional character so he just decided to forget what happened in season 2 and to say that she’s irredeemable to explain him self... WTF????

[@loiiysailor1177]

well shoot just kick out Thomas have Sebation do all the writing

[@thesweetragicsync4151]

@@loiiysailor1177 That would be awesome

[@scarxnnivs]

Someone once pointed out that Thomas could possibly just not believe in changing, that'd a great explanation to why there is grains of character development when he's in charge of the show.

[@clyvetruises9587]

I never noticed before but Mariette is a full fledged yandere. She's stalking Adrien and everybody is OK with it

[@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaDooplivian]

The difference is Ayano can't feel anything. She has a reason for the way she is. Marinette doesn't!

[@egbert-3]

@@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaDooplivian ayano is better written compared to marinette

[@bessieburnet9816]

@@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaDooplivian Hey, a yandere has been a popular trope in Japanese media for years, long before Yandere Simulator. Yandere Simulator didn't invent the trope.

[@totaltoons6087]

I find it stupid of how they forcefully don’t allow Marionette to not get in trouble, or get caught. It’s like she’s been trained more to be a criminal then get taught by her ‘wise’ mentor. Like the girl steals phones, and go to great lengths to make sure they don’t have any germs, and is able to give them back without a trace of her being caught. Do you know that one Episode in Regular Show, where Mordecai sang a embarrassing/cringe song about his crush, and accidentally got recorded on his phone, and then accidentally sent it in panic. He then decided to delete the audio message on her phone, without getting caught. But he failed getting through her password, and got sucked into the phone, where he and Rigby who was trying to help Mordecai, was going to die. But Margaret came in time, when picking up her phone, and realised what was going on, which made her lost trust in Mordecai, and played the song, which was both two consequences for what he had done, and learnt from it. Unlike Marionette, who never learnt anything.

[@VixeyFrost]

To the writers of Marinette: If you’re being creepy as a joke You’re still just being creepy

[@Skyraider359]

You know Spider-man, whom Ladybug is based on, had a bully who tormented him (Flash Thompson) was redeemed in more ways than one and became one of the best characters in his mythos. Why couldn't they copy that too?

[@littlesparrow303]

Yes I know!! I made that in my analysis video bc we see Flash turn into Agent Venom later on in the good side

[@abyssalzei552]

Astruc: LALALA Chloe will never change what character development?! Also Astruc: Stalker Marinette is cute

[@chloeisanicon.zoeisnot1834]

He’s a pedophile

[@kingdomofwinter4844]

Chloe : so how do I redeem myself after miracle queen Thomas : that’s the neat part you don’t

[@chloeisanicon.zoeisnot1834]

He’s so stubborn and it’s disgusting

[@principalgoose6188]

in the episode where chloe gets her miraculous, once she starts talking to ladybrat about her problems she brings up marinette, and how she is ‘annoying and got the whole class to gang up on her’ MARINETTE LITERALLY TRIES TO CLEAR HER NAME AND IS LIKE ‘she isn’t that bad it’s not her fault’ BUT IT SO CLEARLY IS-

[@turquoiseninju7]

Who would actually like Marinette, though? She's a Mary Sue, and was made to be so unlikeable. They could have added some sort of problem, conflict or trauma that makes her feel like an actual human being.

[@turquoiseninju7]

I wish I was the one writing Chloe now.

[@saltedwounds]

I am so happy you’re making a video on this, I also hate how they added Zoe. It feels like a cheap excuse to make Chloe seem worse by comparison.

[@TheMG20089]

I don’t mind Zoe existence but making Chloe worse because of her doesn’t make sense

[@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaDooplivian]

@@TheMG20089 Agreed. Although Deneen Melody really likes voicing Zoe Lee!

[@saltedwounds]

@@TheMG20089 totally, same here. I wish they made Chloe be q better person WITH the help of Zoe, not making her rivals…

[@chloeisanicon.zoeisnot1834]

FACTS

[@chloeisanicon.zoeisnot1834]

You chose to speak the language of FACTS

[@KushyTailz]

I feel like the writer tried to make Chloe the "bad person" at the end was because he hated that people actually liked her so he was so stuck up about it and decided "let me just sprinkle horrible things and racism and more, just to get people to hate her" when in all reality, it just made us hate the creator and it reflects what type of person he is. Chole is still one my favorite characters no matter what. She actually has good plot and back story at least compared to.. Marinette.

[@tonyslastbraincell]

why is season 2 the best? Because Thomas wasn't the main writer.

[@littlesparrow303]

Wish they kept it that way :( I know he made the world but him as a writer isn’t good

[@whoobaee]

They should've kept it this way

[@totaldramafan2566]

i understand that you probally think tikki's annoying because she shoudnt be the one to be teaching mari all the lessons instead of marinette facing the consequences and your right.but honestly,Tikki is done with marinette's shit

[@lo-fiaesthetic5382]

The fact that Tikki helped Marinette steal Adrien's cellphone left me really disappointed

[@Popgurliess]

@@lo-fiaesthetic5382 plagg's and adrien's chemistry is honestly way more interesting in my opinion

[@lo-fiaesthetic5382]

@@Popgurliess fr

[@gabrielleduplessis7388]

You are going to a love/hate relationship woth season 4. The good things: Continuity More character development that makes sense with the characters especially Marionette It gets dark. There is some silliness but a lot of episodes get dark: rocketear is the darkest so far in my opinion. Adrien unintentionally gets a better arc, but they do him dirty. Don’t worry, it is for the narrative, but it kills me. Plaag becomes a bro to Adrien this season and I love it. He is my favorite kwami because he always supports adrien and cares about him. Better writing Cons: They do cat noir dirty I like Alya this season, but she may be a con for you They ruin Chloe’s character for no reason Zoe: i cannot trust her and she is very bland and is part of the narrative to ruin Chloe’s character for no reason. I am not saying zoe herself wants to, but the writers deliberately adding her just to make Chloe mean for no reason.

[@elchanchopato9601]

Add to the cons, in my opinion, that the Kwamis' personalities switches from mature and individually-stablished to toddler-like as a whole when plot requires it to.

[@gabrielleduplessis7388]

@@elchanchopato9601 i agree. I do not get that all. Some theorize because Marionette is the new guardian and they start as blank slates, but I do not fully believe that. I am glad plaag is maturing more and being a good friend to Adrien this season.

[@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaDooplivian]

@@gabrielleduplessis7388 Agreed. Plagg really has gotten better. In wishmaker just he was so pure. And Adrien saying our future implying him and Plagg's future. Just so pure!

[@blacklight683]

You have to realize how much self control you need to refuse it, like she managed to calm herself from absolute rage

[@elysewalker3327]

Supposedly the reason the writers got everyone's hopes up about Chloe was because it was supposed to be a "betrayal arc". ...umm, no. A betrayal arc is where a character who starts out good turns evil and usually becomes good again after several episodes. What Thomas Astruc and the other Miraculous writers wrote was a poorly executed redemption arc.

[@Project-zu4xh]

You know what would have made sense. If they put Chloe's redemption arc in season 4 it would've been much better considering how the season is more story driven. I honestly don't understand it though what is the point of giving a redemption arc if you aren't gonna continue it through the series. I also completely agree with you Felix would've been a better villain to use in the season 3 finale.

[@chakr.a]

Chloe is worse in season 4

[@milkalii3431]

I don't get how Felix saying "Be careful of what you wish for, naughty girls." is sexist? I mean, I honestly just thought it was him shooting back by calling them what they called him. Edit: Read the replies btw, he was joking

[@thesweetragicsync4151]

Both seem sexist.

[@kavo1460]

I don‘t think it‘s sexist… I mean how/why should it be sexist? If him saying naughty girls were sexist then calling him a naughty boy would be too. But if only saying that the phrase ‚naughty girls‘ is sexist seems like a double standard to me

[@milkalii3431]

@@kavo1460 Couldn't agree more

[@milkalii3431]

@@thesweetragicsync4151 I don't really think so. The definition of sexist is "characterized by or showing prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex." I dunno if it's just me, but I don't see how they could both possibly be sexist? There's nothing that could be seen as stereotypical or discriminative in those comments.

[@juicyqueef1102]

I taught he meant it as in it's sexuall

[@megxmi7702]

To be honest, I seriously think that Marinette's classmates/the background characters are better written than the main characters. (Like Alix, Mylene, Juleka, Rose, Ivan, Kim, Marc, Nathaniel, Kagami, Luka, etc) The fact that people hate Kagami and Luka for "Getting in the way of their ships" is stupid. And also how people pay more attention to the love square more than the actually canon pairs is kind of sad. (Like Alya x Nino, Ivan x Mylene, Julerose, and Marcthaniel. Yes, Julerose and Marcthaniel are confirmed!!!! 🤩) I also think that to me, Marinette is pretty unlikable. I think that Adrien should've been the main character, because he has such a more interesting arc in the show. And last thing, yeah, Chloe should've had a real redemption arc, and that was just thrown away. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk

[@christ5431]

Nah Marinette is more interesting to follow a backstory doesn't make you the ideal character. Saying that Marinette's class is better written is the worst take of the century

[@osky529]

My problems with the finale 1.hawkmoth got his hands on the miracle box and just gave it to chloe 2.chloe losing her redemption arc because thomas hates her 3.carapaces shelter going from indestructible to breaking from a senti monster

[@DESTRUCTOR344]

You could say that they were afraid that Chloe would surpass Marinette, the truth is that Chloe is more interesting than Marinette and they have more in common than you think, look at her hair, I think they were childhood friends but something happened is almost It sure was Marinette's fault. Remember that Marinette is a Mary Sue and has a poor development, while Chloe has a background, a real development and a lot of potential that is not used.

[@Vigriff]

Yeah we never really got to know what their early childhoods were like.

[@hmait]

I love how Cyrus is talking about the smallest details that we cant see and kinda funny how the fanfiction and shippers are making more sense than the whole cannon plots of the story cause when you read a story in fanfiction, it usually follows a path of something will happen but in this show, they add random scenes and hope it turns out well.

[@avocadosfrommexico6234]

The thing is I don’t even watch this show and yet here I am-

[@christopherbravo1813]

same

[@AriaVelKazik]

In my opinion the worst thing about this show is it's structure and how director was undecided. I mean if from the very begining they wanted to make story deep, why they keep this "villan of the ep" format until now. In season 1 this format would be ok but since season 2 they should start to change it. Also did we needed Stormy Weather 2? No. Reflekdoll? NO. Puppeteer 2? HELL NO! Did we need to see how Marinette get to know names and what powers kwami have? Yep. How she learn to make fusion? Oh Yea. How Chat Noir learn to make a fusion and how much he actually knows about this miraculous stuff? HELL YEA!! The last thing that comimng to my mind is if they don't want to show that Wang Fu teach Mari then use Tikki for it. So Marinette could learn magical stuff from her instead of getting moral lessons that she gets now.

[@47ratsinahoodie]

Someone a while back said that it didn't matter that Marinette didn't get any development in the past three seasons because the writers made it so she would start developing now and I'm like, that is not how you write characters at all wtf. I think the villain of the week format could have worked but they needed to start implementing the important stuff way earlier

[@infinitedreamer9359]

Here's something else,not only have Tikki teach her about this magic stuff,but have Fu actually train Mari and Adrien(and the other heroes) in learning how to fight better against the enemies they face. Like hand to hand combat,tatics,etc. And kwamis like Tikki or Plagg could easily help them in learning how better control their more esoteric abilities. Why wouldn't they? It's their own powers that the Miraculous are powered by,so they should be the best expert. Like maybe at some point down the line, they unlock different aspects of Creation,Destruction,Illusions,etc. and learn how to use them in creative ways for battle and maybe outside of the suit.And even learning how to not detransform after a single use of their powers or combo attacks. All of this would go a long way towards giving the sense of progression that the characters are slowly learning how to be heroes.And what's even better is that you can easily double all of these training scenes as scenes for character interaction and development as well. Like,for example having scenes of Chat and LB sparring and bantering with each other. Or scenes of LB and Queen Bee learning how to work together.Scenes like this could help the pacing of the show improve massively because like this,it feels less like the show is trying to waste your time.

[@AriaVelKazik]

@@infinitedreamer9359 I also had similar thoughts about it, but after watching the show I can see that this would be too much for writers and directors to handle :( So that's why I give this slight changes as propositions.

[@infinitedreamer9359]

@@AriaVelKazik While I don't think that simply adding training scenes of the characters having to slowly learn how to control their powers(instead of magically learning how to do it in seconds), fight better,and learning over time to be better heroes is that hard,maybe you're right, considering the 'quality' we've mostly gotten out of the show. Then again,it might not be the writers causing all of the problems here. I heard something about how the writers legitimately wanted to redeem Chloe,which is why starting in S2 she became a more fleshed out character.But apparently, during that time Astruc had taken a backseat from directing ML,but after he returned he didn't like what they did with Chloe and made them reverse it. Which might be why we got that sloppy S3 finale. I think Astruc might be the bigger detriment to this series. Maybe the writers wanted to do more with the series plot,worldbuilding,and characters,but with Astruc constantly breathing down their necks,they might not have that much freedom to do that. And it probably doesn't help that Astruc's original darker vision for this show(which probably was going to be for an older audience) was rejected for a light hearted merchandise-driven show.Or they could be genuinely that incompetent. Who knows? We won't really know the situation behind the production of ML until one of the crew that isn't Astruc speaks up about it.That would be really interesting to me to know about that,because we would probably get some answers as to why ML turned out like it did.

[@lilythyvggg5819]

I think it might have happened of screen because all her knowledge to fight the SVs, the miraculous powers , fusions and more couldn’t possibly come out of no where they must have been trained offscreen either by the qwamis or fu.

[@disco_depression]

I HATE how they tone down every character to make Marinette seem good instead of just saying she sucks. And when you call it out on twitter you're "too harsh and focused on details"

[@chloeisanicon.zoeisnot1834]

Even in Quality animation and looks they try to make marinette look prettier even than alya , alya looks like a dry piece of clay and everything around looks fake

[@Popgurliess]

@@chloeisanicon.zoeisnot1834 I don't mean this as an insult, but I think that mari isin't even pretty.

[@chloeisanicon.zoeisnot1834]

@@Popgurliess yeah and she pisses me off i wannna snatch her blueberry wig

[@christ5431]

​@@PopgurliessYou can't say speak say that with mega mind in Profile

[@Popgurliess]

@@christ5431 Wdym this guy is hot af

[@maddiemcnugget1076]

People are so reductive. When they don't have anything to fight you with they will just pull the "you're sexist!" "you're racist!" "you're a bigot!" etc. One of your favorite characters (mentioned in a previous video) is Kagami who is an Asian girl. And even without Kagami, you're just pointing out how the feminism in this show is very performative and not really doing too much in the grand scheme. Honestly I can kinda see what they were going for with the finale. Like the consequences because now everybody's identity is revealed... but they don't take advantage of that, except with Rena Rouge and in Optigami. Like why haven't other people been stalked besides Alya by Shadowmoth? Nino would be the best person to stalk because that's his son's best friend.

[@annieandelsieofarendelle3294]

Also, how is it feminist to have every girl obsessing over a guy?

[@lunarisdreaming]

You explained all the points I wanted to expose about Chloe's execution. Thank you. They made it a point that "once a villain always a villain" and "people never change" Such a bad message to kids...

[@icy9428]

i binged all your essay on miraclous i'm very excited for this one!!

[@jadeoreo]

yeah I'm really sad for her honestly. she's so drained and stressed in s4 and he really truly ruined her life. all her memories are going to be gone forever (unless they pull some shit like oH hE nAmeD lAdyBug GuArdiAn nOt mArinEtte" being the guardian seems like the worst thing in the world tbh.

[@hungryoni251]

This channel just keeps raining gold, keep up the good work

[@N_Vwls]

I sort of genuinely want Thomas to reboot the entire damn show, to flesh out most, if not all, of the characters. Thomas thinks that Chloe is irredeemable, I think this show is irredeemable. Miraculous Ladybug was doomed when they made each episode a repetitive fight against a villain. They literally could have trashed so many of those, and made them explore Marinette’s classmates. I actually feel like some of the characters are just there to “support” Marinette’s behavior (bad and good) or as some conflict to get between her and Adrien.

[@thatperson278]

"Subverting expectations isn't bad when done right." Let me give some wisdom from reddit "If I went to a restaurant and asked for a loaf of bread but the waiter gave me bread mashed with water in a cup, it would technically be subversion, but not something good"