How to Fix Spongy Motorcycle Brakes : Mini Skills - Bandit

How to fix spongy front brakes of the Suzuki GSF 650 Bandit. Part of the Bandit front brake mini skills series
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Hey, it’s David. I’m a self-taught guy that likes to work on bikes in my spare time. I help guys like you who don’t have the time to research how to maintain, repair and customise their bikes. I’m showing you the simple ways to keep your bike on the road without paying for expensive workshop time. I have a great one for you today.
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[@lilneldrawings_7948]

Finally got them to work thank you sooooo much I was going crazy trying to find out the issue 😂

[@MotoMirius]

Great work in getting the work done! Skäl David

[@darrenwilson3732]

Excellent Video! A+

[@MotoMirius]

Thank you very much!

[@edwardleniston1076]

Good effort! 👍

[@MotoMirius]

Cheers Edward. I thought I needed to clarify that from my previous video. Skäl. David

[@jonnymurphy666]

great video, i ended up bleeding the rear brakes and changing the fluid, no air in the system so that wasnt the issue. i also cleaned the calipers also didnt work. turned out that the brake pads had a sheen on them so werent gripping the disc. i used degreaser to clean the brake disc and get rid of any old dust, new pads on and the brakes were perfect again, its something which i think is overlooked in most videos related to soft brakes on a bike as it feels like theres air in the line but its actually the brake pads that are the issue.

[@MotoMirius]

Hi Jonathan and thanks. There is a difference between soft brakes and the pads not providing braking effect - this is why it isn't included in the discussion of soft brakes. Soft brakes are felt as movement in the lever even when the brakes are locked solid, hard brakes provide a hard feel in the lever once the pads hit the disk. Brakes pads which are not biting with hard braking feel will still feel hard, the bike will just not brake effectively. Replacing pads and cleaning the disk can improve the braking on the bike but are not a cause of soft brakes - although in the process trapped air can be removed which has the effect of improving the braking feel. Glad to hear that you solved your problem.

[@tinks43]

A little fiddling around and you got there in the end 👍🏻

[@MotoMirius]

It's not the most elegant method in the world but the failure rate is low! Skäl Dave

[@p4ndasr0ck]

I have brake pipe cross over and a three way split to contend with. Been using a vacuum pump to suck through 500ml of fluid and still soft.

[@MotoMirius]

How old are your brake lines? Skäl. David

[@p4ndasr0ck]

@@MotoMirius brand new hoses, 22yr old metal Cross over. I left over night with the lever closed and still soft.

[@MotoMirius]

Assuming your callipers are working properly and the pistons aren't sticking, then you've either still got air or possibly the master cylinder needs rebuilding. Air is the obvious issue. Take the top off the master cylinder and gently work the lever (too hard and you'll get a squirt of fluid). Work it for a while - if see any micro bubbles coming up through the fluid in the master cylinder then you've still got air. Good luck!

[@p4ndasr0ck]

@@MotoMirius I found a few. I'll continue! Already spent several days. The VFR is a pain to bleed

[@MotoMirius]

In case you haven’t seen it Getting Air Out Of Motorcycle Brake Systems : Mini Skills

[@hornet224]

I tried this technique. Sounds too good to be true, A few bubbles came out, but had little or no effect.

[@MotoMirius]

If you had bubbles coming out then you have taken the first steps. If you did that properly then you will have released the air in the top part of the system - but if you have air traps - ABS, brake line loops etc then you need to clear those separately.

[@morganmitchell4017]

I just replaced the pads and brake fluid on my honda, and the brakes just don't bite. The brake lever and pedal are both very firm, and I can lock up both wheels, but it seems to take a lot more effort than it did before. Any idea what would cause this?

[@MotoMirius]

You should be able to apply the brakes with one or two fingers. If it takes more effort than that.... Did you clean the calipers and pistons when you changed the pads and fluid? Most common cause of increasing effort to apply the brakes is when the seals on the pistons are grabbing the pistons and not allowing them to slide cleanly. If you've not done it for a while it might be time to pull the pistons and change the seals.

[@fvds_music175]

when tying up de brake lever do i have to leave the reservoir cap open?

[@MotoMirius]

No, you can leave it closed - at least leave the cap in place so that the fluid does not absorb water from the air

[@Jaymore90s]

Iv just did this I really hopes works for me cause my head is about to go with these brakes 😂

[@MotoMirius]

Brakes are simple things (unless you complicate them with ABS) - the solution is always obvious once you've taken a step back and gone through them properly. Good luck! Skäl David

[@Jaymore90s]

@@MotoMirius did the stack last night no bends at all left brakes on over night came home from work started the bleed and put calipers back on and we have went from zero brakes to great brakes. Seems to have done the trick. Cheers for the advice 😊

[@MotoMirius]

@@Jaymore90s Great work there!

[@Kush.46]

Hey David, How do I perform the technique #4 Tatro bleed with a single caliper setup and will it work for ABS?

[@MotoMirius]

Single caliper works the same. ABS is an issue because the system design almost always builds in air traps - typically ABS requires pressure bleeding to overcome this.

[@Kush.46]

@@MotoMirius Got it

[@5TRYD4]

Is that delboys bike you have there

[@MotoMirius]

Yes it is. Good to see that you recognise the build. Skäl. David

[@OnceUponATime917]

I did this and the brake worked for 5 days and now no pressure in the pedal. Tap the predal down several time there is pressure back but loses it again in a minute. No leaks. Break fluid tank is full from my last flush. What could be going wrong!!

[@MotoMirius]

You may need a new master cylinder - not so many rebuild kits for the rear.

[@AustinPetDetective]

I just discovered my rear brake reservoir was bone dry. Can I just top it up with brake fluid, or do I have to bleed the brakes as well since it had no fluid in it ?

[@MotoMirius]

If the brake is firm and not spongy you could just add fluid. The real question is why it's empty. Normally that means the pads are worn out - when you change the pads, the fluid will flow back into the reservoir. If the pads are OK and you have a leak, you would expect it to be spongy.

[@AustinPetDetective]

@@MotoMirius Pads are good, looks like only 25 % worn, I will refill with brake fluid and check for leaks ? Thanks.

[@MotoMirius]

@@AustinPetDetective You do need to figure out what happened to the fluid. It's a closed system and it doesn't evaporate. Of course if it's a new bike to you and you have only just seen this then you can blame the previous owner. Don't top it right up to the line unless the brake pads are new.

[@rahathfarid6796]

Hi there mate just got a kx85 I’ve bleed the rear brakes but it’s still soft and won’t stop the tyre ? Any suggestions

[@MotoMirius]

First check the hoses - stock rubber hoses have a 4 year lifespan. Assuming hoses and master cylinder is good I always recommend the following for rear brakes - top up the master cylinder. Crack open the bleed nipple. Quickly pump the the pedal until the master cylinder is nearly empty and then nip up the bleed nipple - do not do this before that. Refill the master cylinder and repeat at least two more times. Don't allow the level to go too low or you will pump air into the system. If that doesn't cure it, you've got a mechanical problem - hoses, a leak in the caliper or the master cylinder needs rebuilding. Good luck! David

[@rahathfarid6796]

That’s for a soft rear brake fix ?

[@MotoMirius]

@@rahathfarid6796 Yes

[@sandiswa_maphosa]

@@rahathfarid6796 did this work for you?

[@mr2spyderchronicles287]

Kinda desperate with the front brake on my intruder 1800. Tried to bleed using all the ways imaginable and still spongy. Even did a lid for the reservoir to attach the compressor and bled the thing using pressure pushing down on the fluid. Also used vacum pump on the calipers. Used the 150ml syringe to push the fluid from the caliper, still spongy. Thought it would be the hoses but if i clamp the hoses close to the calipers on both sides the lever becomes rock hard so i assume everything is good regarding master cilinder and hoses. Even open and cleaned the master. All seals good, no scatches in the cilinder bore. Calipers have been opened, cleaned and reassembled. Though it might be the pads that would be soft to i removed them and used some pieces of steel between the caliper pistons. Same thing. Still spongy...

[@MotoMirius]

If you've got solid brakes with the hoses clamped by the callipers that rules out the hoses and splitter - which are likely candidates - stock rubber hoses normally have a four year service life. I'm assuming that the callipers are fitted with the bleed nozzle at the top - just to rule out the obvious. If you have the Tokiko calipers there shouldn't be an internal air trap around the bleeder that you find with some designs.

[@mr2spyderchronicles287]

@@MotoMirius yes the bike comes with tokico calipers. Bleeder at the top of course. I've put teflon tape on the bleeder threads also. Was trying to figure out how air could be traped in the caliper but i see no way that could happen.

[@MotoMirius]

@@mr2spyderchronicles287 With those calipers, no it shouldn't happen - with some caliper designs the bleeder is below the fluid feed. It might still be worth removing them from the bike and bleeding to ensure there is no air trapped around the fluid entry point.

[@mr2spyderchronicles287]

@@MotoMirius as an updatem i tried another option. I removed the caliper and press the lever to close the pads. Then reassemble making a bit of force to put the calipers in. The lever improved. It seems that the problem is the caliper pistons are retracting too much so a lot of lever is wasted to take that slack. Another thing i noticed is if i pinch the hose at the master cilinder and then force pump 2 times so the fluid goes down but doesnt return, if i then remove the plier from the hose while holding the lever, it keeps it stiffness and its perfect. I can ease the lever and its still perfect, only if i let go completely, the next time i press is soft again. Im going crazy.

[@MotoMirius]

Sounds to me that you are getting closer and the issue may not be directly related to the fluid. The pads should ride just a hair off the pads so that you can here them dragging lightly on high points. Have you checked the air vents in the master cylinder lid are clear? If when you press the lever it creates a vacuum in the master cylinder that would suck the fluid back up. What happens if you press the lever with the MC lid off or loose?

[@zappa916]

Amazing how some overcomplicate things

[@MotoMirius]

As one highly experienced engineer said on this subject - there is the right way and then there are the shortcuts taken by those who want the job done quickly

[@julieoliver8170]

I just rebuilt all of my calipers the rear worked fine the front aren't engaging although I have bled it 10 times already and there's no air the Pistons aren't engaging I had them pushed all the way in when I redid the new Pistons. I'm wondering why they're not being pushed out with the hydraulic pressure like I said everything is brand new and I have fluid at the bleeder valve and there seems to be no air

[@MotoMirius]

What does the front brake lever feel like?

[@julieoliver8170]

It has no pressure at all, but it bleeds out of the bleeders on both sides but it won't build up pressure! So my guess is the Pistons are pushed down so far the fluid isn't building up to push them out. That's my only guess but technically the way the valves were designed the fluid should be pressing underneath the Pistons already

[@julieoliver8170]

And all the pistons and rings inside have been clean flushed and a brand new and the brake master is brand spanking new also

[@MotoMirius]

@@julieoliver8170 You have twin front brakes? If so, do you have direct lines to each caliper or does the line loop over the front wheel?

[@julieoliver8170]

No it's a triumph t509 1997. Master to a doubled up one so they aren't separate.

[@AhmedMohamed-or3bt]

Hello sir. My bike doesnt uses disk brakes. Uses Drum type. I changed my brake pad today but i dont feel that instant braking instead i feel kinda spongy when i apply the rear brake. What can i do please?

[@MotoMirius]

Most rear drum brakes don't use fluid. If you do have a hydraulic rear drum brake then I recommend the same as for disk - just flush the fluid through for two or three reservoirs full of fluid (more with ABS). Don't let the reservoir go empty and leave the drain on the rear brake open while you pump the fluid - don't bother with opening and closing between each pump - just open it, pump quickly until the reservoir is close to empty then close the bleed nipple. Good luck. Skäl David

[@AhmedMohamed-or3bt]

@@MotoMirius yes sir mine is drum type but i dont know why its feeling spongy since i changed it yesterday

[@MotoMirius]

@@AhmedMohamed-or3bt Do you have a hydraulic back brake? If not, then you've fitted something wrong - go back and check what you've done.

[@AhmedMohamed-or3bt]

@@MotoMirius Not hydraulic. Its drum type. Okey sir. Thank you for the advice.

[@zato6226]

The question is , is it a permanent or a temporary fix?

[@MotoMirius]

Depends on the cause. If you have a fault with the brakes then it won’t fix it - but then nothing will except fixing the fault.

[@beatsmarttie5777]

Hello sir. I bleeded the front and rear of my bmw f800gs. Had no problems at the rear. On the front no matter how long i bleed the calipers (only clean fluid comes out), it seems like there is still air trapped in the system. The following happens when pulling the brake lever: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mIHYoKl-a9iUm9k. Now the part about circle shaped brake hoses is interesting, i do have that above my front wheel. Do you have any further advise? Thanks for making these video's.

[@MotoMirius]

Thanks. Yes, a loop over the front wheel will trap air. You can take the second caliper off and sit it lower on the other side of the wheel - put something between the pads so they don't pop out then the air can travel up to the other caliper and then up. ABS if you have it will also cause issues in creating air traps.

[@beatsmarttie5777]

@@MotoMirius alright. So buying a obd scanner to bleed the abs pump won’t hurt either? I have seen the Moto scan app for bmw motorcycles. Looks cool.

[@MotoMirius]

@@beatsmarttie5777 It won't hurt but it won't necessarily bleed the air out of the pipes that lead to and from it. I've never bothered to buy one because you don't really need it. But it's a nice toy to have.

[@beatsmarttie5777]

@@MotoMirius So you always just went for a ride and did a few emergency stops?

[@MotoMirius]

@@beatsmarttie5777 Yes. Emergency stops are something that you should always practice from time to time, just like any other rider skill. ABS is a crutch - it's a good tool, but tools can break. I have an ABS video if you dig for it. Generally speaking air doesn't get trapped in the ABS unit - it gets trapped in the lines leading to and from the ABS unit and only certain ABS units even need bleeding.

[@razvan4553]

IT DOESNT WORK.

[@MotoMirius]

Follow the instructions and it works, skimp something or not listen about the bits like ABS then yeah, you are likely to struggle.

[@razvan4553]

@@MotoMirius what if my rotors are worn off? does it have an impact regarding the stiffness of the braking lever?

[@MotoMirius]

@@razvan4553 No. No impact at all. Rotors wear unevenly so new pads don't work very well at first, but the lever will still be stiff. You can think of brake fluid as flexible metal - it really doesn't compress very much so the lever should be solid - if the lever is soft it's because you have air in the line (which squashes), a leaking joint or a failure in master cylinder - but in 99% of cases is is air.