Misinformation bill: Who gets to decide the truth? | Q+A

The Q+A panel discusses the proposed misinformation bill and who decides what's true and what's not.
Subscribe for full episodes and weekly uploads: ab.co/2E3pCZ9
Panellists: British journalist, author & filmmaker Jon Ronson, Independent MP for Goldstein Zoe Daniel, Centre for Public Christianity senior fellow & anti-gambling advocate Tim Costello, Broadcaster, advocate & Hilma’s Network founder Charlotte Mortlock and Columnist & Quillette Editor-in-Chief Claire Lehmann
This episode was broadcast on Monday November 18, 2024
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Q+A is a television discussion program that focuses mostly on politics but ranges across all of the big issues that set Australians thinking, talking and debating.
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We aim to create a discussion that is constructive, that reflects a diverse range of views and that provides a safe environment where people can respectfully discuss their differences.
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In order to be as inclusive and diverse as possible, the program is presented from a range of locations around the country and all Australians are encouraged to get involved through social media as well as by joining the audience.
This is an official Australian Broadcasting Corporation KZbin channel.

[@alurker3985]

After the last few years I have no trust in Government to supply me with factual and true information.

[@WilliamBlinky]

Ditto. My confidence in the Govt is shot. It wasn't helped by Covid & the fiasco of The Voice was a huge kick in the guts for me and I imagine many other Australians, who could not believe that Albo, after being advised not to proceed with The Voice for a multitude of reasons, plowed full steam ahead and got the predictable fail, at great cost (many millions spent). How is it that our PM is such a complete dim wit? I've had it with the bloke, and want him gone.

[@coaldoubt2879]

what happened in the last few years that concerns you?

[@AndrewFishman]

@@coaldoubt2879 Well, where to begin... but nothing has been truthfully discussed. CV19, Ukulele invasion, Oct 7, Jan 9 (US), Amsterdam "Riot", Southport. Where on earth have you been?

[@coaldoubt2879]

@@AndrewFishman how do you know that the government has been lying about those things?

[@DavidBamber-m8j]

@@coaldoubt2879 Do you remember when they said the COVID 19 vaccine was safe and effective? I know people that got vaccine injured from that vaccine.

[@PjRjHj]

Very sobering that the audience were applauding censorship

[@jefferyreis3551]

That was scary. You can tell how biased the audience is.

[@joelcrase7055]

​@jefferyreis3551 come on now. We all know qanda have a balanced and impartial audience.

[@benschafer1660]

Just seals clapping with no thought….

[@marktucker8896]

@@benschafer1660 That is highly offensive to seals, seals have way more intelligence than anybody attending this show.

[@mrniceguy351]

It's qanda, the audience is full of leftists.

[@DrIdaho]

This misinformation bill should be stopped. There are already safeguards against misformation: DEFAMATION LAW, LAWS AGAINST INCITING AND THREATENING VIOLENCE, and THE RACIAL DISCRIMATION ACT.

[@tonedowne]

Defamation laws only serve politicians and in reality serve as a weapon against the truth. They are a financial battering ram for the ruling class. The truth is not necessarily a valid defence against defamation as it turns out. But that’s not really the issue. It’s about establishing a baseline of reality based facts from which we can form opinions. You can’t debate ecology or astronomy with someone who believes the earth is flat.

[@humanresources3545]

And yet scammers still exist.

[@DrIdaho]

@@humanresources3545 I never said the current safeguards are perfect (no safeguard is).

[@AndrewFishman]

@@humanresources3545 How on earth does this bill prevent scammers?

[@internethardcase]

@@humanresources3545 scamming is not legal even now lol

[@gusyeates5408]

The government should not be in charge of determining what is true or false-it’s an inherently flawed approach that feels reminiscent of Orwell’s 1984. Attempting to police the “truth” on social media is not only a massive overreach but also a futile endeavor, given the complexity and subjectivity of many issues. Instead, the government should focus on regulating social media algorithms, ensuring they promote transparency, fairness, and accountability rather than amplifying misinformation or polarizing content. By addressing the root mechanisms driving the spread of misinformation, we can foster a much healthier digital environment without compromising free expression.

[@TheMightyAerodrakon]

Excellently spoken, I think we need more people like you in our floundering government system.

[@humanresources3545]

The proposal is not for government to make the decisions. It's for the platforms to decide.

[@NickGreiner1988]

​@humanresources3545 they already do. I can't even type certain things using numbers and symbols to put my wording into code form when it comes to some subjects, without my posts getting deleted and my account being shadowbanned.

[@tonedowne]

Isn’t it more about having consequences for platforms who continually promote lies and scams?

[@humanresources3545]

@@NickGreiner1988 Not all though

[@jaso9217]

Government bureaucrats deciding what is true would be an abomination.

[@keithc904]

Any goverment that we can prove lied to us should not have the power to tell us what is not true or a lie.

[@tonedowne]

I would expect the government have nothing to do with it beyond allocating funding. It would have to be an independent entity with no political appointees and a clear apolitical mandate.

[@debrahumphreys9305]

Absolutely. Mis and dis needs to apply firstly to govt and its departments. If the truth comes first from that place, then and only then should they censor the Australian peoples speech on or off-line.

[@tonybloomfield5635]

$275 reduction in power bills?

[@stevesmith1923]

@@tonedowne No bias there then.

[@tonedowne]

@@stevesmith1923 You don’t agree? You think fact checking should be done by the government and subject to political bias?

[@silverwolf4095]

I have 2 goldfish. I call them safe and effective, not sure if they remember.

[@peterevans5184]

The perfect example of government over-reach in this area, are those in Labor who supported The Voice accusing those who voted against the proposal being victims of "disinformation". I voted against the Voice because I didn't want a system of permanent racial divisions enshrined in our Constitution. I also didn't want one ethnic group having additional representation to Parliament over and above other citizens of this country. My son and daughter are half Australian and half Myan Indian from El Salvador. They would have had permanent second class representation in Parliament under the Voice proposal. It wasn't disinformation that sank the Voice. It was the proposal itself that was rejected by the Australian people

[@Roach22]

No, it was disinformation. The arbiters of truth said it was so. So please, stop spreading more disinformation.

[@brownie003]

If you can't handle free and open discussion despite the narcissists and evil actors on there, no ones saying you have to be on x. Just dont use the platform

[@humanresources3545]

It's on KZbin too.

[@ishizu92]

its the new townhall, it should be regulated

[@Quinston82]

Actually, the narcissists are just as prevalent everywhere else, except that if they're on the side not being censored they have free reign because no one can tell them they're wrong. X is king because anybody can tell you you're wrong, and if they're wrong anybody can tell them too. Weight of numbers is often the deciding factor, in other words it's democratic.

[@brownie003]

@ishizu92 I get it. You don't support free speech

[@humanresources3545]

@@brownie003 There's speech OK and speech not OK eg hate speech, incitement, bigotry

[@nateduggan3146]

Insanity, I'm a free speech absolutist. I am a grown adult i can decide who's ideas i don't agree with or who's ideas i agree with. Having a government agency decide for me is utterly ridiculous, people have lost their mind if they think state eun censorship is a good idea. Eventually they will come to shutdown your speech.

[@richardjohnston-bell476]

agreed. I find it insulting to my intelligence that someone else thinks they should get to decide what information I am capable of handling.

[@schmildo]

This ‘balanced’ discussion made me feel sick.

[@alltheeasynamesweregone]

This will end badly, the arbiter of truth is the individual. Spend money on teaching people how to spot disinformation, don’t try and censor information.

[@humanresources3545]

Which individual?

[@nullgod]

Much of the education department, and the universities teaching the teachers, are bent.

[@tonedowne]

When people are exposed to bad information, they will make bad decisions. There is no way around this. Especially if that bad information is playing into peoples existing bias. Most people don’t have the time or the will to cross reference. People just feel that some information makes them feel good and righteous, while other information is uncomfortable and challenging. The erosion of a reality baseline has lead people to become increasingly polarised and impervious to reason.

[@bigb1637]

%100 Facts

[@tomsmith6513]

@@humanresources3545 You, me, and everyone else individually

[@peteconroy1348]

If the government hadn’t been consistently wrong when it counted over the past 5 years perhaps people might have more confidence in their disinformation teams.

[@jonb4401]

Absolute disaster for Australia

[@katicakes88]

The answer to misinformation isn’t less speech - it’s more. Restricting speech assumes that people are incapable of navigating complex ideas. Encouraging more speech-by fostering open debate, empowering individuals to challenge falsehoods, and elevating the truth-respects people’s autonomy while defending the principles of free expression.

[@geraldcoffey3303]

If you cant handle free speech then stay out of the conversation. I dont need govt or anyone else deciding what i think or can say. Im amazed at so called journalists advocating for censorship

[@Roach22]

I believe journalists are exempt under the current iteration of the bill.

[@tomsmith6513]

Censorship is for coward politicians who can't handle criticism and opposition.

[@Roach22]

@@soulzy3596 Meaning journalists will be able to lie without having to worry too much about the public correcting them. It’s interesting how quickly people reveal just how power hungry they are when they’re openly supporting such a totalitarian change that provides them special privileges that most people will lose.

[@keithc904]

But what happen to "it's a private company, they can do as they wan't" or "if you don't like the platform, don't use it" as soon as they lose the narrative control they need to silence any thing they don't wan't any one to hear. classic moving of the goal post.

[@humanresources3545]

Scammers?

[@Roach22]

The left, just like the ABC are an example of a group of people who said all that constantly, prior to when Elon Musk purchased Twitter/X. You’re right, now the shoe is on the other foot it’s now a massive problem. You can see the bias dripping off the screen while watching this ABC Q&A segment.

[@Shamshiadadd]

This programme never fails to be populated by the intellectual and philosophical dregs of our society with a few exceptions. The lack of moral outrage concerning this proposal here is astonishing. I feel like im watching a satirical caricature of our society on the Disney channel.

[@markspin4596]

Agreed. We should be storming the parliament over this crap. Shame I live on the GC..

[@andymeier7708]

Well lets hope Zoe gets voted out next election.

[@AndrewFishman]

At Davos the focus was on recapturing the media and the narrative...

[@theflamingone8729]

Censorship is for the benefit of people in power.

[@humanresources3545]

It's to put the brakes on scammers.

[@theflamingone8729]

@humanresources3545 or empower them, depending on the scam.

[@brandondoherty809]

​@@humanresources3545 go to China then it you wanna be controlled

[@ibanezlaney]

@@humanresources3545 No it isn't. Read the legislation they are proposing. It has nothing to do with stupid women really thinking a Nigerian prince on a dating site is interested in them and needs them to send 100k every few months. You have actually been scammed into believing what you posted by a government minister who is pushing for these laws. She started saying it yesterday and you fell for it hook line and sinker.

[@humanresources3545]

@@ibanezlaney Got a link to it?

[@markspin4596]

I love how this government places so much focus on the things that are opposite to what they elected to do to begin with. Lower energy prices = FAIL. Lower petrol prices = FAIL (and to think people believed them on this one considering we are governed by the world price). Lower mortgages = LOL FAIL, and to think they want to exempt themselves from this potential legislation is deeply concerning. You want to bring it in Albanese, it should apply to EVERYBODY!!!!

[@liamliao7236]

Zoe Daniel clearly has not read this bill in detail.

[@SharpesRifles]

It's called community notes They have self regulated

[@MP-ye6tv]

please explain why the government is exempt !!

[@dogzdigital]

Murdoch media would be exempt also. I'm not sure how that makes any sense.

[@slapitman]

When ANYBODY censors ANYTHING its control. Society has the right to SWITCH OFF if it does not want any information, the government or business entity does not have the right to decide what we see nor hear - that is exclusively OUR RIGHT.

[@potterj09]

Your own fault if you can't participate in society as a discerning adult. Don't expect others to be hamstrung but something you support by ineptitude.

[@humanresources3545]

People get scammed all the time. It's not their fault.

[@potterj09]

@@humanresources3545 Yeah but these are people who are getting scammed and then their response is a vote to blur the line between politician and parent at a cost to all.

[@humanresources3545]

@@potterj09 Not at all. Most are elderly or kids

[@potterj09]

@@humanresources3545 That may be true, but I'd still question if you can make an accurate comparison between someone being a victim of a crime and someone being more prone to media manipulation. Also the answer would be to read more instead of shutting down or regulating what can be available. That's how people who want absolute control get a foothold; by using the fear of those afraid of being lied to.

[@kathyadamson3151]

So he says All conspiracy is made by a narcissistic person???? Seriously people are allowed their opinion and their views.... freedom of speech is our human right!!

[@loscocolisos]

Let me decide by myself what is true or not!! Tomorrow I might change my views on any topic and discussion is very important

[@SF-pq3sq]

The funny thing about all these conpiracy theories is that they are proving true😉

[@dennisodriscoll1969]

Jesus said The Truth will set you free

[@rob9263]

And the ABC call themselves a trusted source ? 😂😂😂

[@chrisheretic4448]

So painful. I hate how these terms of propaganda have entered the vocabulary. Misinformation and Disinformation comes from everywhere everyday. The truth is subjective upon information and understanding and the more perspectives we get to hear the better IMO. Nobody should be policing our speech.

[@KrisWalter-j1o]

since when does the truth needs regulation?

[@ChristineKing-i5c]

Albo working for the wef who un and nato. The people are smart enough to fact check information themselves

[@Deano00777]

Are we going to burn fiction books?

[@dallasthompson4408]

Pretty obvious this bill is not the will of the people.

[@cjcornelius]

I remember when Elon Musk was celebrated until he bought Twitter and then later teamed up with Trump. I cannot understand why people hate him so much when his (depending on your lean) actions appear to be very positive. If you listen to him, when he is not being attacked, he does make a lot of sense. I am also concerned by how people think the gov should be the sole arbitrator on what is true/false and that it is appearing (if the applause here is anything to go by), we adults are not at a level where we can decipher for ourselves. Also dislike the fact that difficult truths are held from the public (like war crimes, etc. as elaborated here at the end), because "you can't handle the truth". What is wrong with a disclaimer and allow us adults to make our own decisions and opinions for ones self...

It is all about control.

[@cjcornelius]

I'm sure it is my friend, still frustrating to see how little people read between the lines for good or bad.

[@ThEBlUeHorNet160]

For me I could get past him buying twitter and liking trump, it was when he started retweeting blatant lies and stuff with the caption “interesting” or “should be investigated further” when the claim is just untrue. It put me off him because he should know that people will listen to him because his opinion has weight and people will take what he says as fact so when he retweets things it gives those fake news article validity further adding to the discourse. If he was a good person he would be calling everyone out but he seems to only call out left wing things and then gives validity to far right Qanon conspiracy theories. It’s disgusting and disturbing.

[@nigelliam153]

I thought that Musk got sick of the left wing / globalist propaganda and censorship on twitter which is why he bought it and simply removed the filters that were put in place.

[@psmorgan2542]

I’m so sick of midwit bureaucrats in our politics treating complex things as though they were simple. Truth is incredibly hard to define. The government has no place in this space.

[@timmoteus]

I have a novel idea. How about empowering individuals to decide what is true and what is untrue by overhauling the education system and teaching the future of the country critical thinking skills. Unfortunately that would also increase government accountability, which is why they seek to keep the population stupid, obedient and too propagandised to even so much as suspect there might be a problem. That's why we are debating legislation like this.

[@ibanezlaney]

They don't want people thinking. The education system is about building better slaves who will accept and do as they are told.

[@evad7933]

Typical Q&A audience, judging by the applause for the MP (intellectual giant that she is) and silence for Clair.

[@charliestarky804]

Can’t work out stuff for themselves This is about control at all Levels

[@guitaroso]

And what will the platforms do should we try and enforce it? I'm thinking we'll just cop a massive middle finger from big tech

[@jesshamilton8340]

If you don’t like it don’t use it. Your all bent don’t trust one of you

[@Lawh]

I don't think truth works in a way where we decide it. One needs to demonstrate accurately and repeatedly that something works and that something is not completely false.

[@dennisodriscoll1969]

Can the Bible become mis information to someone who does not believe in it ?

[@Streets_magnum]

Zoe is blinking a lot…. Excessive blinking can indicate anxiety, which often pairs with lying. If the level of blinking seems exaggerated, it might be because the person is lying. Eyes that don't match up with general facial expressions may demonstrate internal conflict or a covering up of the truth.

[@peterblackburn272]

Freedom of speech religion expression will be in danger

[@humanresources3545]

If they are lies.

[@jamesthorn9197]

What is concerning is that Peter Dutton, see Hansard, actually abstained in the lower house vote on this bill. He has said he wants to pass his own censorship bill, so even if this is voted down by the Senate, which looks likely, and Albanese is booted out at the polls, we will see this foisted on us again at some point. What I am doing is no more voting for major parties, they are too easily corrupted. A lower house full of independents would not have approved this.

[@JHK23PS5]

Free speech means All speech, including speech you don't like

[@MrLplates]

lol conspiracies are *all* not true…yeah government and corporate are never corrupt…lol

[@legolads1732]

Misinformation is when a politician opens their mouth and says something

[@MrLplates]

Wow that guy is off the planet. It’s always a red flag when someone accuses everyone else of being narcissistic

[@blancaperez8251]

Enough, I do not want the government to be in charge of telling me what to hear or what to say, that takes away my freedom!

[@caroljoseph462]

This is what the bill proposes: - core transparency obligations on digital platforms requiring them to be up front about risks on their platforms and to publish a current media literacy plan and their policies in tackling mis- and disinformation. - information gathering and record keeping powers for the ACMA to shine a light on digital platforms’ efforts to address mis- and disinformation on their services, setting a clear expectation that digital platforms must be transparent with the Australian public. - the ability for the ACMA to approve codes and make standards to compel digital platforms to prevent and respond to mis- and disinformation on their services. A code or standard could include obligations on platforms to have robust systems and processes such as reporting tools, links to authoritative information, support for fact checkers and demonetisation of disinformation. - Greater parliamentary oversight of the framework including triennial reviews, annual reporting, and subjecting codes approved by the ACMA to parliamentary scrutiny and disallowance.

[@LPRH246]

There's an old man with a big beard residing on a cloud in the sky that created everything! Misinformation started a while back

[@stevesmith1923]

The Universe was created by nothing then? That sounds like a lie to me.

[@SP-SP-SP]

This Government needs to focus on the economic needs of the people instead of all this social engineering BS.

[@thefixer3158]

Oh wow, I've never seen something so infuriating. these people are trying their best to get the bill over the line.

[@mtomaraki8657]

They failed.

[@Clonty-mj4go]

I can't believe this is up for debate. if this bill passes we are doomed. if you agree with a system of control over what is the truth, you agree that you do not have the mental faculties to determine the truth for yourself. simple as that.

[@crouchingwombathiddenquoll5641]

End users are capable of critical thinking.

[@tonedowne]

I don’t think it’s that hard to seperate objective fact from opinion. There are all sorts of objective facts that all sorts of people find uncomfortable and/or offensive. If people are cherry-picking to skew the real picture, it is easy to add the missing data. As they say, opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one. They aren’t really the point, the point is people having reality based information to inform those opinions. All media is playing fast and loose with observable reality right now, it just social media. The most blatant being what happened in Amsterdam. The reporting was made to fit a predetermined narrative.

[@jeffspicolli593]

We have a censorship Bill presently before the Canadian Parliament.

[@LeonardHarrisLH]

The only thing I see being regulatated here is discussion and thought

[@sabinesa08]

😮 oh, financially pampered propaganda tv...... How much did they get from the gov and from NGOs?

[@Pendragonau]

I think the government should not be allowed anywhere near what is the truth or lies as they are going to change with any new government so none should be regulated

[@johnpickering5289]

The rubbish that Zoe Daniel was peddling is sickening. Likening her self assessed content production to Government legislated and enforced censorship is ridiculous. How about putting a little more time, effort and money into properly educating our kids to think critically!

[@subbasslines]

Why hold the platform accountable? Why not the people spreading and starting the misinformation? How can you fix a problem if you're looking in the wrong direction? Everything is coded, dated, and logged. A fact-checking bill sounds better.

[@hihihihih42]

People need to be able to decide for themselves.. Freedom of speech and Freedom of thought is a person right... and if you think im wrong or right its you're choice... which is exactly why its so important. Whilst you might like someone being censored for something you disagree with one day it might be YOU who is censored.

[@Iamwoman68]

Don't go on it then

[@vexzusdragon8556]

It amazes me how limited these people think, read 1984 and it will give you just a small hint.

[@origanami]

Nobody directly answered her question

[@UncleTehrarist]

0:22 "...and various platforms..." like the one you are on right now, ironically "...what is bad is getting gov to decide truth..." did you just describe the abc here?

[@evad7933]

Truth exists in degrees. It is not dichotomic.

[@stevesmith1923]

What's the difference between an opinion and lie?

[@AaronKeeghan]

One person on that panel anyone should listen to. No wonder I stopped watching this show

[@donaldkeith139]

The best way to stop misinformation is apparently to stop speaking altogether?? No. That isn't right.

[@AaronKeeghan]

We spend time on education, critical thinking, discussion of what is true and what are just personal feelings. Simply ask if a 16 year old needs a digital ID for social media accounts, do they just close these accounts and all the connections made or is that a tracked account forever

[@geoffbartlett8203]

Zoe was a journalist 🤔 now a politician. I guess some people just like trying to control others either by persuasion or lawfare.

[@candiceberg5232]

Why are people clapping, do they want to live in North Korea??

[@damienhudson8028]

In the main, the problem is not the source or content of social media or the internet, its the prejudices of the audience and a lack of critical thinking. This is the value of newspapers, they all had clear reputations and bias, confirmed by they advertising types and revenue they attracted.

[@SF-pq3sq]

Theu guy who says little lies from the left big lies from the right is why this thing should be thrown out😉

[@TheRoswellCode]

"The Ministry of Truth"

[@moviesynopsis001]

I think you guys have accidentally left the comments up on this video.

[@StuartAllinson]

The central problem: Mi and DI can not be defined.

[@dogzdigital]

Who decides whats true? Not anyone from Russia as they have already been blocked in Australia as misinformation.

[@Zander1138]

Fighting over what’s not there’s.

[@Warrenforjesus]

Disgusting and disgraceful

[@eileenahern-ku9nx]

Well well well now, the universe is the absolute truth. And the universe gives the information in such a way that you just couldn't make it up. And the universe picks with such pressission who is to translate/ unravel the message it is delivering. I certainly am unable to translate it I just deliver ❤

[@AlanBramich]

Wake up .

[@ishizu92]

7:45 She is so right

[@PK51X]

You can’t hold a social media platform accountable for what an individual says. They are just a platform allowing communication and shouldn’t held accountable for what you or I say.

[@richardabbot8724]

Australia is finished.

[@henryfostercarr]

Luke safe and effective?

[@Iamwoman68]

Who's the right?

[@marktucker8896]

Anybody you disagrees with them is the unfortunate answer to your question. These people are so far to the left that anyone that was traditionally termed center left sit to their right and are thus defined as right wing. The same principle as you see in the right wing of the labor party, where no member could possibly be defined as right wing.

Misinformation like 'safe and effective'?

[@karljuhnke8882]

You opened well with there is no deciding truth and then went on a rant sbout how to fecide truth.

[@ChrisS-l6n]

Name who's gonna police it

[@donaldkeith139]

Audience: Gulags......🚶🏼

[@AndrewLaird-ok3sw]

Rupert Murdoch will.

[@ChristineKing-i5c]

Fact check that because Haitians made videos saying they do eat cats