Why Writing In Video Games Matters | Discarded Thoughts

Ah, a mediocre video from Misshapen Chair.
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[@jadesprite]

I honestly cannot believe you hit the nail directly on the head when saying that instead of going and looking for more games with good writing, people just hold on a pedastal games with good writing, as if it were a cosmic accident those games have good narrative execution, and thus absolves badly written games of any responsibility to be good.

[@diegobrandomtg]

It’s funny you mentioned Yahtzee because his take on people’s (sometimes his fellow escapist employees) complacency with mediocre video game writing has always stood out to me. People will say for something like the new Zelda that it doesn’t really matter that the story is terrible, to which he usually replies along the lines of “But if it HAD been good, I bet you wouldn’t be saying the story doesn’t matter” (he has had this conversation with Marty on stream about a dozen times)

[@juanmanikings]

What maters in the new zelda is that the gameplay is good and gameplay is king

[@ultimaxkom8728]

Anyone know the very last song name?

[@Shenaldrac]

Exactly. I don't know why so many people are arguing against an aspect of the game being better. Why are they so against games being better? Do they think the writing being good would decrease their enjoyment? That's the only thing that makes sense for why you'd try to reject people criticizing games for poor writing. It's not like people asking for better writing in video games are demanding that the gameplay be bad.

[@MisshapenChair]

Yes, I will change the BGM constantly like a well adjusted, functioning chair. 0:00 - Yuki’s Theme - 100% Orange Juice 0:30 - Malo Mart - Twilight Princess 0:42 - 天使は感動する - Needy Streamer Overload 0:48 - It’s a smile world - God Hand 1:03 - Nyannyan Paradise - Nekopara 1:22 - Ellie’s Theme - 100% Orange Juice 1:43 - Tsih’s Theme - 100% Orange Juice 1:57 - Reminiscence - VA-11 HALL-A 2:11 - Flirt With Bomb - Yakuza Kiwami 3:00 - Sultry Night - God Hand 3:11 - You’ve Got Me - VA-11 HALL-A 3:32 - Xiaoyu’s Ending - Tekken 4 3:56 - Welcome to VA-11 HALL-A - VA-11 HALL-A 4:34 - Dead or Alive Xtreme Beach Volleyball 4:48 - Around Session - Hatsukoi 1/1 5:31 - Broncobuster - God Hand 6:00 - Devil Trigger (Tropical Devil Night Remix) - Devil May Cry V 6:10 - Elevator - Local Forecast 6:21 - Any Special Orders (Tropical Devil Night Remix) - Devil May Cry V 7:01 - The Drive - Resident Evil 4 (2005) 7:19 - Go! Go! Streaming-chan! - VA-11 HALL-A 7:46 - Krialisis’s Theme - 100% Orange Juice 8:10 - Arthur’s Theme - 100% Orange Juice 8:51 - Vague Hope (Cold Rain) - NieR: Automata

[@CianaCorto]

I appreciate you, you vaguely functional piece of furniture.

[@ragnorak6452]

I'll second that bit about bad writing, I'm a huge fan of some of the dumbest pieces of fiction in existence and it's great.

[@guidedexplosiveprojectileg9943]

Like?

[@dillanikobe495]

The room 😏

[@kierahuskarl]

Always glad to see advocacy for good writing, because a tedious, aggressively mediocre story is definitely enough to ruin a game (especially if it's unskippable). I really don't see why my friends love Genshin so much, I couldn't even tolerate it. At the bare minimum writers should provide context in a concise way or add details that reward the audience for paying attention.

[@zagazsanology]

Found you through the algorithm! I really love your pacing -- it's nice to hear point to point with what's on your mind, and I really appreciate how many different games you stuff into a lot of your cuts.

[@gloriouspacenoid]

I noticed all the VA-11 Hall-A music in this video of vidya writing. I noticed. And I appreciate it.

[@shybandit521]

I always see narrative as the reason I pick games back up after I save and quit the first time. "Do I care to see the ending or am I satisfied with the experience I already had" I think it's interesting how even in multiplayer games with "No Writing" they can pull just enough game design strings that the players "story" of improvement works as a narrative in their heads. Ranked scores, cosmetic unlocks, etcetera, a path you can reminisce on to outline your own journey.

[@oldramen373]

The writing in some eroge like Grisaia is so good that I read them and just ignore the hentai when it happens

[@MistaHoward]

Grisaia had hilarously bad writing. For the story at least, the dialogue was good. The common route was the only consistently good part.

[@Eric998765]

Holy crap, I've been searching for the name of the pencil drawn RPG with classes like Seal Clubber and Pastamancer for YEARS. I played it in high school and haven't been able to find it again. I knew as soon as I saw the graphics of the "of Loathing" clip you showed that that was it. Can't believe there are two other games that have been made since. Oh happy days that's going to be an insta buy.

[@Tyrano739]

"I don't want to make a four hour video essay today." But another day maybe? :D And what a way to end a video. Tempted to do just that.

[@soba.]

You really put it better than I can seem to myself. Even with "bad" writing I generally try to engage with it as much as I can because I just want to see if the creators cared

[@highdefinist9697]

8:19 "Bad writing is a whole lot more interesting than mediocre". Strangely enough, that is how I would describe this video itself... it is quite a disjointed mess of various ideas, and isn't really going anywhere, but many of the specific ideas are still interesting, so the overall video is still more interesting than a "mediocre" video about this subject would be. But that aside: It should be possible to aggregate what people imply when they refer to something as having "good writing", and figure out certain elements which must be present. Also, maybe people fall into certain categories with regards to their preferences: Are you able to forgive a bad story if the characters are sufficiently good? To what degree is world building important beyond being a vehicle for the story and the characters? What types of upsetting story twists do you experience as "positively engaging" and which do you experience as "subverting your expectations"? Lots of interesting ideas to think about, I think.

[@chickennugget6684]

6:45 this cut from SotC to DMC threw me for a loop for a second lol they really are in similar areas

[@TheMelnTeam]

It's interesting that pretty much anything that contributes to a person's experience of the game will effect perception of its quality, but for the most part players don't hold everything in their head or think about it carefully. Things like sound design, how tedious inputs/menu navigation are, "the writing", how difficult the choices are to make (for moral or just mechanical reasons) all matter. Chrono Cross had a ton of flaws. Flood of underdeveloped or completely undeveloped characters, huge amount of time between important plot points, exposition dump. But I still played through it a couple times to experience the different routes, and I greatly appreciated the fast forward feature and other things that allowed the player to navigate it more quickly. The combat system was fine too. Preference for different styles matters, but it's still important to stick the landing for whatever the game is trying to do. IMO, the writing for something like Barkley, Shut Up and Jam: Gaiden is both nonsensical and does exactly what it's going for better than most games. The gameplay was fine, but the writing CARRIES it. If we're talking Ultimate Chicken Horse or something the writing doesn't matter too much.

[@theresnothinghere1745]

Because ultimately a lot of those are forgivable for players, it largely depends on the case and context but I can't recall the last time I saw a tedius meny/input system and considered it a deal breaker. If I'm not going in expecting a story that moves me then I'm perfectly fine with something mediocre so long as the game lets me skip it or its short enough to not grind the pace to a halt. This was the case for the Made in the Abyss game, the story was bland and lenghty making it probably the worst element of the game, the UI was tedious to manage the visuals were plain bad. I can't actually recall anything about the sound design so its probably better than the other elements. But I was able to forgive all that just because the gameplay delivered the one thing I came looking for a gameplay experience that makes me feel like I am scaling the abyss.

[@Saint_Cuthbert]

I LOVE the Loathing series. Thank you for highlighting those great games.

[@RKJiu]

Are you going to talk about Slay the Spire or just constantly make me start another run every time I watch one of these videos by flashing it at us? I died to Time Eater this time.

[@VoltSlash]

HOW DARE YOU SAY ONE OF MY FAVOURITE FIGHTING GAME FRANCHISES DOESN'T HAVE BAD WRITING?! Because it's true. The best feature on DoA's story modes is the "skip scene" button.

[@pecopecopecopeco]

The ffxiv gameplay gave me whiplash i forgot you do ffxiv content 😂

[@C_Kiri]

You know what, I appreciate the balls on the play of straight up citing porn by name to make the argument here, and I say this without irony. Literally that's a genuine argument to be made on the topic, and you are braver than any US Marine for mentioning it on main, because nothing on the planet exists more purely for human chemical gratification, and also I feel like most people who were teenagers at some point can relate to the feeling of context objectively making that worse even when you otherwise are genuinely here for one obvious, physiologically satiable reason. Don't act like you made it to a Misshapen Chair video and its comment section without having read some kind of particular kind of black and white manga based on a character you liked, only to be repulsed by the male lead being some kind of repugnant piece of shit. It's practically the universal human experience.

[@MisshapenChair]

Me, Misshapen Chair, and referencing straight up hentai? Next thing you'll say is I reference Nekopara all the time.

[@notarealspy4090]

@@MisshapenChair reference Touhou and I will send Doujinshi to your house, free of charge

[@ultimaxkom8728]

@@MisshapenChair Excuse me, what is the last song name? Thank you in advance.

[@jaron95]

"Pedantic asshole" **camera zooms in on Weiss** 🤣

[@thatdumbmustache]

I do agree with your point that bad writing is better than mediocre, but, i think, it's a bit broader than that. Anything that stokes any emotion at all, be it excitement or frustration, is better than something that only invokes apathy at the sheer mediocrity. This is also Yahtzee's point of view that can be applied to almost anything media related.

[@bbumbs747]

Honestly that is a good way to look at the argument I'm honestly one of those people who do say that writing isn't everything in video games. I mean my favourite video game of all time is Sonic Generations, which is a game while good is infamous for it not having a good narrative, but if I were to use your logic as an example while yes the narrative is hot garbage everything from the animation, sound design, and Level aesthetics are factors worth appreciating and are good reasons why I like the game. Plus knowing the game wasn't trying to give a compelling narrative to begin with, the narrative did serve some purpose. That doesn't dismiss the flaws of the narrative but those other aspects are worth looking into when considering the writing of the game.

[@andream5462]

To your point, this was concisely and very well written. Also, hard agree that without writing there would be no game, no context

[@MisshapenChair]

I disagree. I think this video is mediocre.

[@andream5462]

@MisshapenChair enjoyment is subjective, thank you for an enjoyable video, at the very least

[@quantumhawk806]

KZbin only tells me you made a video like weeks later. I like your videos though so I always watch them but a bit later.

[@aenother]

The editing was much better this time.

[@Ruinur.]

Gotta appreciate the censored hand holding

[@Kralchen]

Well put. Thanks to video games having many aspects to them I tend to forgive flaws when it comes to writing, especially when you can tell it's not the main focus and there are other qualities making up for it. The only exceptions are characters acting stupid for the sake of being stupid and science fiction settings where the inhabitants have the intelligence of an emotional teenager and everyone should be long dead. Immediately breaks my immersion irreparably. Looking at you, Outer Worlds.

[@rika-chan]

grisaia owns but I couldn't finish the sequel(s) - it felt "done"

[@jgn]

the gameplay is the story goofball

[@Eric998765]

Another banger from Chair. Anyone know what anime was shown at 0:33? Edit: Looks like Date A Live?

[@heavensmeter]

5:45 NEEDY STREAMER MENTIONED LET'S GOOOOOOOOOO

[@thexenocide6013]

i really cannot understand the writing doesnt matter people because like. writing is the only thing i care about in games pretty much. the gameplay can be driving nails into my skin but if the plot is good and the characters are well written i can tank anything. death end re;quest kept me playing FAR longer than it deserved to because the plot was so close to being great that i could forgive it for being a complie heart game (and then it ate shit at the end because its still a compile heart game) ((if youre a compile heart gamer i would definitely try this one)) so its just baffling. like yeah sometimes i play games that are no story all gameplay, but i cant imagine playing and enjoying a game with bad or boring writing even if the gameplay is straight gas

[@lungfish]

Anyone who says writing doesn't matter is a maximum pleb.

[@szuman963]

Keep the videos coming.

[@ipkcle1500]

Every game has context, but some for games like Tetris, that context is abstract or non-representational. At that point, it would be hard to still call it writing, unless you want to equate all creative expression with writing. I think this is true even for games with striking non-abstract theming which don't rely on the written word, like Bomberman; these games rely on art, but not writing specifically. So, I could agree that it would be absurd to call creative expression not essential to games (gameplay design already counts), but I think it's fair to call writing non-essential in games.

[@raisylvaine8398]

I’ll be honest, hearing “the game is bad because I don’t like it” is always just the trigger for me to stop listening to someone’s “critique” about it. For example, lots of people say the writing of KH is bad because it’s crazy and all over the place, but for me that’s why it’s amazing.

[@Sawolf151]

what about good and bad editing cuz these are always up there... among the misshapen chair ones

[@jaknafein]

thank you ellie

[@noahmcclellan4372]

Some good writing here.

[@JTreize]

Another classic 10/10 chair take

[@euoplo1007]

ive never really differentiated bewtween bad writing and mediocre writing, its either i enjoyed it or i didnt even if it was good in a way that wasnt intended by the creator. intention onlyreally matters when repetition is concerned as far as i care

[@NorthWolf97]

Can someone tell me which Nekopara vol focuses on Coconut?

[@lambs5258]

7:38 "Not everyone's going to agree with my correct opinions." LOL

[@Meoiswa]

There's an even more dangerous undertone here, when corporations figure out they can *weaponize* bad writing because it instills more emotion than mediocre. See: Last of Us 2

[@MrWilliGaming]

tlou2 was not bad writing. it just lacked the balls to make the player choose

[@daevious_]

@@MrWilliGaming The Last of Us 2 has a good story that was murdered in the editing room.

[@MsUmbyy]

who is your favorite Grisaia girl?

[@OrbitalRescueSage]

Next, explain that watching streamers play games is a cope for the fact that modern games are so bad, so boring, and so badly written, that people NEED another person’s commentary to make games ‘fun.’

[@dysae4484]

Richard nixon for dead or alive collab

[@notarealspy4090]

Insert your Nuclear take here, why you ask? I don't know, just seemed funny to do

[@jarosawbielec3141]

Song at the end?

[@brianwatson6182]

Dark souls 2 being good is an objective quality.

[@brianwatson6182]

Also good vid chair-san. What were your thoughts on VA-11 Hall-A? Sequel never ever :(

[@harbyandrefrancofernandez3310]

It isn’t tho

[@wildheaven1827]

Like how dark souls 3 is objectively better

[@skapb]

dark souls 2 clears every goty winner easily

[@thexenocide6013]

i wish i could post gifs on youtube so i could post that one "dark souls 2 haters and enjoyers every time the game is mentioned" gif. anyway dark souls 2 is the only souls-y game by fromsoft i havent beaten and its because playing that game is hell

[@gr33dl0cknein3]

This video has bad writing. I like it.

[@Azkr-]

hey it's john chair

[@ilikechineseteaespeciallyj7262]

Nekopara W :3

[@corki1017]

The thing about videogame writing is that so much of it is bad compared to like… mid tier books that it all feels really skippable. There are maybe half a dozen videogames that are exceptions, but the entire medium is filled with hyper-formulaic story structures and one dimensional trope characters.

[@quantumhawk806]

I dont care about writing mfs forgetting dark souls series have a ton of writing.

[@Mordoras1379]

hmm you are pretty good. Shame only your final fantasy videos get views (haven't seen them haven't played final fantasy)

[@fisho5022]

mcmuffin

[@comrade1148]

Nice

[@nev2221]

Minecraft has good writing.

[@stephaniephouotrides2435]

👍

[@Pardot_]

Nice video, but I'll play some more 100% oj instead of disco elysium if you don't mind.

[@dust7001]

I skip all the cutscenes in Final Fantasy XIV.... Story gating is bad

[@GreenMiscreant]

Damn, just broke the video with bringing up TLOU like that. A boring game with decent writing is still a boring game, might as well be a movie instead

[@sarinager9390]

P R O M O S M

[@Saturn2888]

I stopped playing Celest because the story sucked. I loved Towerfall and played Matt's earlier games back when indies were freeware, but the story of Celest killed the game for me.

[@deriveepoch2725]

It's quite hard for me to think what's wrong with the game's writing. I think it's mostly fine, with some interesting ideas that synergise gameplay and the narrative (or music and narrarive in Mirror Temple, for example), and plot isn't taking much focus on itself to really bother someone. Maybe it just isn't as captivating as it was in Towerfall (can't say for sure as I haven't played it), so Celeste's plot was a big letdown for you.

[@noarmsnolife6665]

I just think it's time to come to terms with the fact that Japan has put out maybe 1 or 2 games with good writing. Westcels on top!

[@CptManboobs]

Cross Ange is an amazing anime that everyone should watch.

[@edhahaz]

Ok. Go watch a movie and leave my video games alone

[@lungfish]

Rofl what kind of games do you play without any writing, Pong?

[@soba.]

media illiteracy has done irreversible damage to this medium