MiSTer FPGA DE-10 NANO vs RetroPie! Neo Geo Showdown! Which Should You Play? MiSTer or Raspberry Pi?

[@micronian]

I remember playing NeoGeo roms, with NeoRAGEx on my P200mmx back in 1999 running Win98. Back then having the ability to do that on your PC was the best thing ever.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Emulation in the early days was fun. We’ve been doing it forever it seems

[@simon41978]

And looking for the roms on filemirrors at midnight.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

I remember when downloading a Neo Geo rom took time! Slow internet back then

[@mariotheslut]

I played so much metal slug on it

[@johnsimon8457]

Had to boot into dos because windows took up too much ram. Garou looked insane. Not CPS 3 level, but quite nice anyway.

[@angelicoreXX]

in the end i splurged and bought the de10 nano as i keep on thinking on how the de10 nano get more pricier next month .. not to mention luckily there was a drop in the usd value which allow me to get de10 nano .. surprisingly i placed the pre-order on the 6th december and got sent out on the 7th december.. will get the sdram first then slowly consider if want to get the remaining daughter board

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

You won’t regret owning one. Such a legit device

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

I’d do a full stack build. It’s worth it

[@angelicoreXX]

@@VideoGameEsoterica short on budget so will be getting it slowly

[@angelicoreXX]

@@VideoGameEsoterica yeah i know i wont regret since it is a console/pc simulator sides my pi been sitting beside me this whole time not running

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Then yeah just use a cheap hub for now

[@paul_daniel_gaming]

Great video, especially for someone like me on the fence on going with FPGA vs traditional emulation (in my case on a PC).

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

I thought people would really enjoy this one :)

[@adventuretaco7140]

Get a MISTer if you at all care about playing on a crt ..

[@paul_daniel_gaming]

@@adventuretaco7140 Good to know. I am currently using a mini PC and VGA CRT monitor.

[@adventuretaco7140]

@@paul_daniel_gaming love vga monitors for pc cores but imo you can’t beat a big old 32” quality consumer crt for console games ..

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Yes if you want easy analog out MiSTer def makes that happen much easier

[@BasementBrothers]

When it comes to emulating sound, ADPCM like the Matrimelee soundtrack usually isn't a concern. It's just playing back a recording, similar to playing an MP3. Synth sounds like FM are a much greater concern for accuracy. The earlier Neo Geo games that use a lot of FM and SSG and fewer samples are the best test.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

True. But it’s the one sound source that’s branded into my brain

[@superhadouken]

Emulation is really good these days. you can totally enjoy playing on mame or fbneo. And in retroarch both cores have the runahead feature to reduce inputlag.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Yes the take away are the great options people have to NOT drop $$$$ on OG carts if they don't want to

[@grumpyoldgamerUK]

The issue is more timing issues than input latency with software emulation. Run ahead can even compound the issue

[@superhadouken]

@@grumpyoldgamerUK but timing issues are not noticiable. Only in video comparisons like in this video you only see that.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

On the lock frame comparisons I do there is drift…but I always wonder if I hadn’t showed it, would people notice on their own?

[@grumpyoldgamerUK]

@@superhadouken I would argue timing issues are more noticeable and this is what people mix up with input or display latency. Software emulation is mostly a serial based process and this is where timing issues creep in. Some emulators are better than others of course but some are just way off Now while MiSTer or FPGA in general are not always 100% cycle accurate, the FPGA runs parallel so internal timing is more accurate

[@FabioSpelta]

Have you tried the relatively new "preemptive frames" feature of retroarch? I'd love to see a comparison when using that. Thanks,

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

No I haven’t yet. Might be a fun one

[@jonniefast]

i have both, the rp3b+ overheats BAD when pushed hard- but i do like the crt/scanline options (savestates etc) i play the mister way more often though

[@jonniefast]

rasp sucks and loses on bootup time alone lol

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Haha this is true

[@keilmillerjr9701]

​@@jonniefastRetropie blows. I stated with raspbian lite (cli) image and configured + compiled everything myself. The result was a system that booted in only a few seconds. I also don't like how Retropie created their own paths and configs. It's a disaster.

[@demonprincess5634]

that how i feel about the interface with artwork and game description?

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Sorry not sure what you mean with the ?

[@jeremyzeeky3024]

I'm guessing waku waku 7 is running on mister on the right. Colors are a touch more saturated

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

A popular guess this morning!

[@AtomicZepherino]

Have you done similar side by side video comparisons to actual hardware? I found that there are speed differences between an actual MVS and MiSTer (MiSTer is too fast), enough so that it makes MotW and KoF98 feel off because timings for combos/other execution sensitive stuff changes. This has been the case in my experience through multiple configurations ranging from arcade cab (MiSTer+JAMMA Expander vs real MVS) to supergun+MVS connected to RGB display vs standalone MiSTer. I haven't done rigorous testing, so it would be interesting to see how much of a difference there may or may not be for some MVS games beyond just the title/attract screen.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

I have. I think your setup might be having an issue. I timed up real AES hardware against mister and it ran at the same cadence

[@jimmelton5846]

Is your intro Broken Wings in reverse?

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Yep. You found the Easter egg :)

[@jimmelton5846]

@@VideoGameEsoterica do I win something then? 🤣

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Internet points. Redeem 1000000 for candy. You earned 5

[@jimmelton5846]

@@VideoGameEsoterica just like the arcades. Thanks.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Glad you got the joke. It was based on collecting tickets for candy 😂

[@bigkinguru]

Very good job man.Can you make a comparison with various crt shader vs mister fpga?

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Possibly at some point

[@bigkinguru]

@@VideoGameEsoterica i can't wait mister is very expensive today i am from senegal (west africa). Crt emudriver still the best choice for me. I have a pvm 2130qm .

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Nice pvm and you are the first commenter I know from Africa. Welcome!

[@bigkinguru]

@@VideoGameEsoterica thank you very much!!!

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Welcome :)

[@vicviper0017]

"But... we already HAVE a Pi4. It took 7,895 hours to set it up, but we DID it. It's DONE..." "Yes, but we've got to do it from different ANGLES! Again and again! And AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN!!!" "AAAAuuuuAAAAGHHHhhhhh" *gets dragged away screaming*

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Lol not sure how to read this

[@vicviper0017]

It's a Simpsons reference, from an episode where Milhouse becomes a celebrity and is forced to repeat "jimminy jilikers" for 7 hours straight. After complaining about how repetitive the scene is, a movie producer drags him away to re-shoot the scene!

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Hahaha ooh

[@thommccarthy1139]

Emulation is fun but MISTER makes it feel like the game is attached to your nervous system.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Haha jacked in straight to the brain

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

😂

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Haha

[@Error_4x5]

That makes no sense but ok

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

It’s just a turn of phrase

[@etank222]

1:21 fbneo in retroarch will by default attempt to run speed adjusted to the detected display's native refresh rate (typically 60 hz) rather than the neogeo's actual refresh rate of ~59.18 hz, and I believe the same is true of standalone fbneo. This is by design, it provides rock solidly consistent frame pacing at the cost of running ever so slightly faster. The mister is running at the correct framerate, meaning either it or the captured footage of it has been scan converted to 60 fps via every 73rd frame or so being a duplicate of the previous one. I have confirmed this is the case by frame stepping your captured footage here on youtube with the , and . keys. I'm not familiar with standalone fbneo but I do know this behavior can be changed in retroarch by messing with the various timing settings you have access to. And I'm not familiar with the mister either but I do know the analogue super nt has the option to use both of these approaches, that being either speed adjust the system or scan convert the framerate to native 60, tho in the case of the super nt it scan converts by dropping a frame rather than duplicating as the snes runs slightly faster than native 60.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

It’s been a bit since I actually made this (not showed it) but I believe I did the math and even if there is a .XX difference, the amount of time until desync wasn’t “correct” for the time:frames potential difference. Sorry does that make sense? Early here lol

[@SP95]

Of course i'd like to see lag comparisons and how they fair when it comes to 3D games

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Eventually I will do them

[@SP95]

Thanks for whatever you will come up with

[@Vvewa]

Its only clicked for me your intro is Mr Mister (lol) broken wings reversed.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Haha not many people ever get it. It goes along with the playlist name i put these videos on

[@moethephoque9355]

Mister on the right for waku waku 7

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Second vote for this option!

[@GeminiNight]

@@VideoGameEsoterica Did we get an answer?

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Right

[@GeminiNight]

@@VideoGameEsoterica Legend! I actually could tell then.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Haha you got it right

[@adonian]

I'm still using NeoRage-x on my PC... have my MiSTer but not the added ram... yet. edit WakuWaku7 is mister on the right, pi on the left.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

The right vote is the only vote today

[@tecianeli]

I really can´t say on Raspberry PI 4, but I had serious input lag issues with Rasp PI 3. In Sonic 3&K, that 3D bonus was almost impossible to finish. In Shinobi III, the double jump is much more hard to do in the right timming.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Interesting. I’ve never used a 3 so I really can’t speak to it

[@RetroReloaded]

It's always fun seeing these comparisons. I believe the Mister was on the right.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Everyone does today :) only vote I’ve gotten is for mister on right

[@Tsudico]

Yup, I agree that the Mister is on the right. At 6:10 you can tell with Slash's outfit. The dark portions are darker and the bright portions don't seem as washed out. However, unless I played them side by side like you did, I don't think I would be able to tell.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Solid observation and kind of the takeaway of this video…if I didn’t show differences, would anyone notice?

[@markh9129]

I'd really like to see the Pi's analog video out compared to Mister on Trinitron and pvm. I believe the Pi's 3.5 out can push composite out with the right cord.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Maybe one day next year I’ll do that

[@barndaze420]

It's more or less the same visual experience, but Pi4 will need a colorspace converter and I suspect it may slightly reduce sharpness, yes. Composite on a Pi3 is worthless, as there is no maintained image to support it, but it does work. The composite on the Pi3 is cheap or otherwise nothing like OEM. Wii looks much better. Pi4 has noticeable audio skips and stutters in Castlevania IV. Those minor hiccups are acceptable - until you own a MiSTer. After two hours on MiSTer, I couldn't go back to Pi4 at all. The lag is insane, and it's not mostly the HDTVs as many believe. On the other hand, the Pi4 will net you Splatterhouse on a CRT, but CRT EMU DRIVER makes RGB-Pi4 obsolete IME.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Yes I have noticed issues outside of this comparison on other platforms. Maybe I’ll do videos on them. See how these vs Pi ones do first

[@alextirrellRI]

I seem to remember something about the Pi4 that it's harder to get composite video out of, but if it's anything like the Pi 3B+, the built-in output is not worth it. There's a lot of noise in the audio line. Tried using it for a Kodi/Plex solution for my CRT TV and it was pretty bad. I was actually going to try an HDMI to Component converter (since the Pi could output 480i over HDMI) but I ended up getting an old Roku 2 that still works online.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

I have yet to try composite on the 4. One day

[@blandmanager]

Guessing the right is mister!

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

First guess...so can't reveal yet :)

[@amerigocosta7452]

I understand most console gamers want plug and play systems not to be bothered with setting and the likes. But like it or not both MiSTer FPGA and the Raspbery Pi 4 are computers, they are meant to be tinkered with and that's just how it is. That's just to say that the Raspberry Pi 4 (unlike the previous models) is powerful enough to use advanced methods to reduce input lag and it can also be set to output a refresh rate very close to the original hardware/software if you really want it to do so. It's a solid option for a small format 8-16 bit emulation machine on a large screen (and it can do more that that), but eveyone interested in it should be prepared to a face lot of options (first of all, which distro to choose) and a bit of tinkering in order to get the best out of it. Granted it's starting to become an outdated board, being at this point about 4 years old. The Mister FPGA seems to have its own complications but I really want to get one..I'm waiting this supply chain madness to improve. (PS: MiSTer on the right side).

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

The tinkering is the best aspect to me but you are correct, most people just want plug and play. And that’s fair. Mini consoles exist and that gets them close to done

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Mister on the right…the only vote this morning it seems!

[@dorfus]

HOW DARE YOU THE RASPBERRY PI IS A SAINT

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

I’ll take the raspberry pi out for a nice steak dinner and never call it back

[@dorfus]

@@VideoGameEsoterica sorry the raspberry pi is vegan except when it gets really drunk and claims it’s pescatarian

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Then eats a chicken wing

[@dorfus]

@@VideoGameEsoterica “IT IS FINE CHICKENS DON’T HAVE SOULS”

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

No that’s geese. Trash birds

[@petemalogne5219]

hmm idk.. I say settings matter.. however each of these solutions can improve the original experience is the real comparison imo

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

You can def always articulate settings to personal preference

[@percyvolnar8010]

Mister clearly on the right!!

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Oh I have so forgotten what the answer is by this point in time lol

[@percyvolnar8010]

@@VideoGameEsoterica HAHA! I figured you would say that! It has been well over a year afterall! :)

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

I always mixed sides up too so nobody would notice a pattern 😂

[@Charlie-Cat.]

Oof! Now that's a tough choice VGE. You putting me on the spot with this one bro. So to be safe, I say it's safe to play them on both bro. 8^) Also VGE. Thank you for sharing this on the Neo-Geo thread for us to enjoy. I'll be stopping by to make a comment on AtariAge soon bro. 8^) Anthony...

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Hahaha cop out

[@milk_maid]

Maybe we cn have both? Oh wait we alredy can with MT32-PI 😜

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Both is fine. It’s what I have after all haha

[@cola6378]

yes bud sound real roland best for mi

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

MIDI is always fun

[@vforillo]

Probably should turn frame skipping off on the raspberry pi. It will stop trying to over advance itself.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Per memory frame skip is off

[@stubby5510]

I have been using the raspberry pi since the original one. I have the 4 now in it Argon one m.2 case. Have the cpu overlocked and the fan tweaked, as well as the OS and roms on the m.2 sata. It’s amazing. I’ve always wanted to play on a Mister, but the rpi4 Retropie does everything I want it to do.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

The Pi is no slouch for sure

[@adventuretaco7140]

Yeah I’m sure pi runs ps1 and 486 core games amazingly well.. and soon I’m sure someone will port a halfway functioning Saturn core ..

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

PS1 on Pi is a good time

[@stubby5510]

@@adventuretaco7140 yeah I’d love to have a well working Saturn core on it

[@stubby5510]

@@VideoGameEsoterica yeah I really like the duck station emulator. But now I mostly play my ps1 games on my ps3 I recently got.

[@Nemesis2K]

Mister has a much softer image in mark of the wolves.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

I’d have to look again because I didn’t see that

[@Nemesis2K]

@@VideoGameEsoterica look at the man in the suit singing at 4:40 and 5:00

[@Nemesis2K]

In fact flicking between those, it looks like the aspect ratio is off, which may be why.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

I’ll take a peek tomorrow when I’m around

[@METR0lD]

The colors definitely look better on the MiSTer versions. Pulstar in particular looked a lot more dull, especially on the water stage.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

The colors are an interesting comparison for sure. The most dramatic one imo

[@matthewhall6288]

Yeah the Pulstar intro looked washed-out on the Pi.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

It was a bit too vibrant seemingly so

[@bigkinguru]

I think playing on a crt tv with a software emulator will be able to simulate real hardware such as groovymame /crt emudriver 15khz soft on a crt tv.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

it is a fun way to play but it requires some specialty GPUs that aren't exactly easy to obtain

[@bigkinguru]

@@VideoGameEsoterica yet there are a lot of old radeons that are easily found on ebay or a second-hand market or you are in a remote area like me?

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

You can find them still but price wise they are higher than any other old GPU because people know what they are now

[@ynotwalk7391]

wait - do pi4s really cost $175 right now??

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

They do. Prices have gone wild

[@SP95]

6:29 MISTER on the right and RPi on the left

[@SP95]

I don't like how flat the colors look on the Pi, i'll all in on vibrancy especially on a CRT display

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Popular vote

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

I get that. I tend to agree

[@thebocop]

Input delay tho on Pi. its not the same. 2-3 frames of lag on the software emulation even wired.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

I separate lag into categories; mathematical and perceivable. I wouldn’t say the Pi lag is something most are noticing

[@thebocop]

@@VideoGameEsoterica 2-3 frames is super perceivable. You can feel it in something as simple as Mario's jump. As for serious Neogeo fans heck yeh, any fighting game fan can notice. NeoGeo itself is in that level of tech enthusiasts even back then.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

I guess it depends on genre / familiarity with the game

[@BigkamGaming]

Mister on the right on waku waku 7

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Everyone guessing this!

[@nimbylive]

playing Waku Waku 7, MiSTer is on the right I think. The colors look a little more saturated on the right.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Everyone has voted for this option so far

[@isunshin999]

Once I have my MiSTer built, I'm gonna be so toxic to everyone who prefers software emulation, it will be awesome 😎

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

No. Do the opposite. Embrace it all!

[@spotifyseascapessmoothjazz]

MiSTer on the right. Look at the whiskers.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

You are correct

[@rvkasper]

MiSter on right

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

I haven’t announced it yes but…correct! Everyone got it right

[@StephanieHua]

Nooooooooo Omg gare-row???? The title screen literally pronounces it for all non-Asian/Japanese speakers

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

That’ll happen

[@isunshin999]

Wow Mister is so much better than the worthless Raspberry Pi, no comparison.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Lol be nice. Pi is cool too

[@ShapeyFiend]

You could concentrate on the technical aspects but I think this debate is best settled on message board, by moderately overweight men in their 40's, who don't know the slurs they're using haven't been acceptable since the 90's.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

🤣 described to a tee

[@ynotwalk7391]

get off my lawn, you opium-smoking pie thief

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

🤣

[@ArcadeCabNBud]

I know what I say can be unacceptable today but I don't let that stop me

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Haha

[@adventuretaco7140]

PI SUCKS! MISTer 4 LIFE!!

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

lol...sounds like something you'd say

[@adventuretaco7140]

@@VideoGameEsoterica I’d put it on at shirt and wear it to my kids school!

[@barndaze420]

Well, that's polarizing rhetoric. A Pi can't compare to the MiSTer's abilities, no, but it does offer versatility, variety, affordability, and it's a "more or less faithful" substitute. It just pops and skips periodically. I had no complaints about Pi until I got MiSTer, lol.

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Haha he’s playing. He jokes a lot

[@adventuretaco7140]

@@barndaze420 yeah broh my eloquent statement was meant in jest .. I got no real beef with pi owners .. just none of em ever dare say that the pi is better or equal to MISTer… lmao

[@cola6378]

color and contrast the bad in mister ((

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Sorry not sure what you mean?

[@cola6378]

@@VideoGameEsoterica too color+ and contrast+ there is no balance HDMI mister

[@VideoGameEsoterica]

Ahh I see