MiSTer FPGA S-Video & Composite How-To

[@rager1969]

I'm waiting for an RF adaptor to get the true retro experience.

[@adventuretaco7140]

You can use this adapter and run it through a vcr for RF.. it actually looks like buns! But I love it !

[@atsz.]

Haha yeah I was going to say, a VCR is your RF adapter

[@eloiferreira7500]

😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@Kage5868]

What camera and software do you recorde with?

[@Vospi]

Looking forward to the Direct video video.

[@joysticksnjukeboxes]

In my experience S-video is much closer to component than composite. I would actually like to see people focus on getting the best possible composite output from older consoles, and now from Mister. Sometimes people blame composite for bad pictures without realizing their consoles just didn't even do composite very well. From Dreamcast on, I think s-video or component is best.

[@Vospi]

I played component no problem straight out of my VGA mister board. Just one passive cable worked just fine. I feel it's just nice to have the option, especially if you use the Mister as a portable thing. Or to re-experience your childhood tv if you haven't thrown it away yet. :)

[@mademedothis424]

S-video is very sharp, especially from an RGB source like this. The community has been overstating how ubiquitous composite blend was back in the day. Obviously us in SCART territories were on RGB cables that didn't composite blend as early as the 16 bit era, but even videophiles in the US who would splurge for the right cables would get sharp output that made dithering visible. The good thing about these adaptors is you can go back and forth at will with a quick cable swap, and using S-Video plus software composite blend settings in cores produces very similar results to composite cables with less pixel crawl, depending on what adaptor you're using. But hey, if we all finally get to the point where we acknowledge that old games didn't just have one look universally that's progress. It was all 4:3, though. Anybody who plays old games with other aspect ratios using square pixels is objective wrong.

[@LusRetroSource]

Agree, there is not one look for retro games. We all grew up with different experiences, so it's all about getting the look you want and enjoy. And yeah, 4:3 games stretched to 16:9 is just plain wrong.

[@antivanti]

Most systems with SCART still just used composite signal tho. The PlayStation 1 for instance came with a composite AV cable but you could get an RGB cable as an option (needed for playing imported NTSC games) but it wasn't standard. 8 and 16 bit systems were pretty much universally just composite via SCART I think? ... or just plain old RF

[@mademedothis424]

@@antivanti Made me go look it up, but apparently not the case on 16 bit, the Internet tells me that both the SNES and the Mega Drive will output RGB over scart when paired with the right cables. 8 bits is a different story. The NES and TG16 don't do RGB natively, although some sources say that some versions of the Master System do have it. Never mind that, as we see in this example, even composite will show dithering rather than blend if you're on good S Video cables, and probably also on well shielded composite over SCART. Whatever the actual makeup of the signal coming out, if you went out and bought good cables for your SCART-supporting console and TV you immediately got a sharper image... and as a result all that dithering staring back at you.

[@antivanti]

@@mademedothis424 SEGA Genesis in particular had a lot of stuff made specifically made for composite blending. Like the waterfalls in Sonic The Hedgehog

[@TheKayliedGamerChannel-YouTube]

​@@mademedothis424 Master System MK1 has RGB out 👊

[@cortbelmont]

Looks like composite is generated in full range from what you showed. The level should be 7.5IRE and white level also lower. So no further correction should be needed when you connect it the composite input, but here seems you'll have to manually lower brightness and maybe increase contrast to fit Y/C limited range values. S-video should have no problem with this video levels and as you showed s-video seems to be in the correct range

[@TheHiddenFortress81]

S-Video on my giant 300lb Sony Trinitron looks damn near as good as RGB on my PVM in my opinion. I love S-Video.

[@LusRetroSource]

Yes, s-video is pretty impressive!

[@ZezRetro]

Dude you are so good at getting lots of info written tightly, its something I struggle with myself. It's great you did the CRT shots. CRTs are so hard to film, you managed to shoot it well enough we could see the differences. Oh and you explained the power thing really well :)

[@LusRetroSource]

Thanks, your interview with John Linneman really gave some good insight in recording CRT's. I eventually want to get a 10bit camera so that interview is going to help me with what features to look out for.

[@Tomtycoon]

With all this talk about composite, S-video, RGB. I wonder how good was the image of analog cable tv trough coax? It's only 1 cable, but I thought it looked better than composite.

[@TheKayliedGamerChannel-YouTube]

SVideo is a quality video output Ive enjoyed using on PS2 and Nintendo64. Suppose it's highest many gamers had before RGB 👍 Great companion and update video Lu'✌️

[@Keychain-]

yo either a heads up or something i need clarification on but the video description currently says: "[MiSTer.ini settings] vga_mode=rgb ntsc_mode=0 composite_sync=0" but shouldnt it say this instead?: "[MiSTer.ini settings] vga_mode=svideo ntsc_mode=0 composite_sync=1"

[@LusRetroSource]

OMG! I totally missed that! Like you said, the description was wrong. I just fixed it. Thanks for letting me know.

[@PixelCherryNinja]

Thanks Lu, as always, top notch content.

[@LusRetroSource]

Thanks!

[@Pawnband]

Great video Lu! Very informative. Personally I'm always going back and forth between my S-Video trinitron and my Oled panel with adaptive scanlines. I think they both look fantastic.

[@atsz.]

I think composite is the way to go for most of the systems on MiSTer. While it's true that many developers had access to PVMs, they did design games mainly for what was commonly available in their market.

[@LusRetroSource]

I really enjoy using composite, but I love that we have the option to choose the connection type with MiSTer.

[@atsz.]

@@LusRetroSource Yeah definitely. What sold me on composite just now was how your video comparison showed how different everything looks between the high contrast of s-video, and that of composite. The feel is so much different. I'm pretty sure developers used high contrasting pixels to go for the effect they were likely going to get on RF or composite.

[@AE-bm4no]

Great video. Do you know if my antoniovillena S video adapter is still compatible with the new Mister update? Or should I upgrade to the Mike Simone adapter? I mainly want to connnect using s video.

[@LusRetroSource]

Antonio Villena's adapter is still compatible and should always be compatible because what it does is take an RGB signal, which MiSTer can natively output, and convert that to S-video. If you're using s-video then there is really no need to switch adapters. However, if you're using composite and find the dot crawl annoying then it would be a good idea to switch to the new adapter.

[@AE-bm4no]

​​@@LusRetroSourceperfect! Thanks a bunch and Happy gaming.

[@JaeliusFairmout]

i can tell this must have taken a massive amount of time and effort. I really appreciate what you've pulled off here.

[@LusRetroSource]

Thanks! I appreciate it.

[@samspot1]

This video helped me a lot. I was struggling to understand what to get to output a composite signal and confused why a lot of conversation was focused on s-video. Thank you for taking the time to make this.

[@LusRetroSource]

Glad it helped!

[@gcolombelli]

I'm only getting 480i output with both active adapters I've used, an RGB to Y/C converter based on the AD724 chip and a couple of XOs and one with a THS7374 with no XOs onboard, but a bunch of caps and inductors. For CRT this is not an issue, but with LCDs it does cause some issues. Anyone had the same experience? I can get 240p just fine on YPbPr.

[@samuelbanya]

How do you supply power to the composite adapter you showed in the video? Is that the active one?

[@LusRetroSource]

I use it as is. I do not use a USB-C power adapter with it.

[@joshb.9380]

Great video! Solid info without any useless fluff. I’m going to set up my new Mister for composite using this adapter and Direct Video from the DE-10 Nano. I know I’ll have to change a few things relative to this video though.

[@Charlie-Cat.]

S-Video is like amazing Lu. I thought that it was the best thing that ever happen for a screen at one time bro. 8^) Anthony...

[@JohnyTheWizKid]

I have an RCA Lyceum and it has RGB input and I'm having issues getting the picture right. The retrotink transcoder displays it but the color is off, the gamma is too high and I've been asking around for help. I'm told to try the mister but here's my setup. All my consoles are component. I need to convert ypbpr to RGB bnc. I want to use vga breakout rgbs cuz the sync is probably the issue. I bought a sync combiner so I'm hoping that works. If not, I'd like to try this. I need a mister that I plug my ypbpr into this device and the output is vga/RGB. All my games are from original hardware. I don't want to use raspberry pi or sim cards. I just want picture displayed properly. Is there such a thing?

[@labnine3362]

I'm going to stock with VGA but it's great that there are more options available.

[@superhadouken]

It would be great if this is integrated to io boards in the future. To get rid of these external mini boards

[@TheHiddenFortress81]

Im trying to figure what the music in this video is from

[@jeff15]

Awesome. Great tip for setting up vga port. Thanks for sharing. 👍

[@LusRetroSource]

You're welcome!

[@optimusuk]

Great tutorial. One thing to note mentioned by Video Game Estorica (don't think KZbin comments will allow a direct link) is check your vga cables if running 5v to the active controller. I was stumped getting this to work until I tried a higher quality one and it worked!

[@LusRetroSource]

Good tip. Didn't have any issues with the VGA cable I had.

[@Will-xk4nm]

Just got one of these devices and I am loving it. S-Video output to my old Sanyo looks great.

[@LusRetroSource]

Nice! Glad you're enjoying it!

[@mattclaire4444]

Got this working with the the ultimate mister passive adapter looks amazing thanks for the guide. I have some cores that display in black and white only cave and raizing mainly is this something I can sort out?

[@LusRetroSource]

Core's that are black and white only mean that they have not been update to the latest framework, which is required for this to work.

[@gavinturman2404]

Just got my Mister with active yc adapter. Running s- video to my crt with separate rca for audio but am not getting any sound. Any ideas as to what might be causing this?

[@LusRetroSource]

I never had to modify any settings to get the 3.5mm jack working. Try using a fresh mister ini file, but make sure you back up your old one in case there are any settings there you want to keep.

[@RobertKreese]

Great feature, but I'll stick to RGB on my PVM. All of my TVs have RGB too. I guess this is for Americans mostly?

[@LusRetroSource]

Yeah, it wasn't common for consumer TV's here to have better connections that s-video. Even s-video wasn't that common. You also have to be careful here when picking up a CRT because lot's of them only have RF connections.

[@TheMikeyb86]

Perfect timing! Thanks for this useful video.

[@LusRetroSource]

Awesome, glad it will be helpful to you!

[@adventuretaco7140]

Best use for this adapter is my dual Toshiba kv and af set up one tate oriented and the other traditionally oriented . The pinnacle of retro gaming

[@LusRetroSource]

That's a great idea!

[@adventuretaco7140]

@@LusRetroSource hell yeah Man! Good times , highly recommend!

[@EricFraga]

Lu, there is 2 vga_mode entries on your ini settings. Which one is the correct? Cannot be both, right? Thanks for all your help.

[@LusRetroSource]

I'm sorry, where in the video do you see 2 "vga_mode" entries?

[@EricFraga]

@@LusRetroSource Sorry! On my phone, on portrait the second vga_mode was from the other line of text! Thanks Lu, sorry for the confusion.

[@LusRetroSource]

@@EricFraga No worries, I appreciate when views point things out that I could try and fix

[@overdriver99]

thanks for very detail comparison of S-video and RGB. I thought S-video and RGB has same clarity in theory but I guess blending is not.. something to do with color ?

[@Helvetica_Scenario]

Is it possible to do anything similar to this with a digital board?

[@LusRetroSource]

Yes, using direct video. I'm working on a video for for that.

[@zackmezera]

I know I am months late, but I have a question about 2:20 that you can maybe answer, between this and your other videos… I’m looking to connect my digital I/O board to my composite red/white/yellow crt. I have an active adapter, but I’m confused about how to get the *audio* feed to my tv. Even in this video, you only plug in the yellow video composite? Any tips, I’d be so grateful! I have been buying the wrong cords over and over 😂😂

[@LusRetroSource]

I do not have a digital IO board, but as far as I know it does not support analog audio and only supports optical audio out. So you'll need some type of optical cable to output your audio.

[@zackmezera]

@@LusRetroSource makes sense, ty!

[@dorondavid4698]

Was the TV at 5:28 an Insignia 20"? If so I have that exact model (and why I was watching this video) But also, stupid question, if all you're connecting is S-Video or Composite, how do you get sound?

[@LusRetroSource]

The TV was a Panasonic 20" Tau series. It was composite, s-video and component connections. To get sound you will have to use a cable that plugs from the IO Board's 1/8" audio out port to the TV's audio RCA in ports.

[@dorondavid4698]

@@LusRetroSource makes sense, thanks!

[@riddleiddle]

After I run Update All 2.0 through Downloader 1.6, the VGA mode does not exist in my ini file. I have the Y/C file in the root of my mister sd card, but is there anything I'm doing wrong?

[@LusRetroSource]

You'll have to add it manually then. I put the settings for the ini file in the description.

[@riddleiddle]

@@LusRetroSource Okay I am getting an image but it is rolling. The image scrolls up continuously (or it flickers on another video option mode on CRT)

[@MaddoScientist0]

I got a retrocastle adapter and sonic doesn't look accurate on composite, maybe it's because I'm using older cores, I'll have to try to update and try again, otherwise I'll have to get the Mike Simone adapter. EDIT: just updated and tried all video modes: none of them except for RGB work at all with the retrocastle composite adapter, they all show a greenish image

[@LusRetroSource]

Check with RetroCastle to see if it uses Mike Simones design. I know they have an IO board with s-video support but it does not use Mike Simones design and converts RGB to S-Video and getting it to work will require different settings.

[@MaddoScientist0]

@@LusRetroSource yeah I found out its just an rgb converter, what a shame, I bought it thinking it'd be the one but now I have to get the correct one

[@antivanti]

Is it possible to have a SCART cable for this that supports both RGB and Composite so one can switch between them. Sometimes I want the sharpest RGB available but sometimes I want the composite signal to get the intended blending of pixels (like the "transparent" waterfalls in Sonic) or just proper the retro feeling

[@TheHiddenFortress81]

Im so confused. Stupid question. I purchased one of these adapters about a year ago, and I’ve been using my mister on a Sony Trinitron via S-Video for about a year. So what has changed?

[@LusRetroSource]

This is a fairly new development for MiSTer. The adapter you have is most likely an RGB to Svideo/composite converter. I have one of those too. Those adapters have issues with composite with noticeable dot crawl. I created a video on one of those adapters here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/op-7fHmtrK6ba5o Now MiSTer generates the s-video signal natively in the cores instead of converting RGB. There's also tuning done for composite to eliminate dot crawl. If you're using s-video then the adapter you have will work fine. If you intend on using composite then it's better to use the new method.

[@TheHiddenFortress81]

@@LusRetroSource Ah okay. Thanks for the response Lu! I think I understand now. So if I’m just using S-Video, would there be any reason to pick up a newer adapter, or would it be exactly the same?

[@yopachi]

I am already using Antonio Villena's adapter to get nice s-video signal. I am not sure if the update changes anything for me.

[@LusRetroSource]

If you're using his original adapter then this video doesn't pertain to you. That adapter converts an RGB signal to s-video instead of generating the s-video signal within the core. It works great with s-video, but composite could use improvement because there's noticeable dot crawl on the edges of graphics in cores. I believe he discontinued that adapter and now sells an equivalent one that I talk about there.

[@yopachi]

@@LusRetroSource oh man everything makes sense now! The composite has horrible dot crawl haha. I was an early adopter

[@RetroMyBits]

6:22 what game is this?

[@LusRetroSource]

That is Bionic Commando for the NES. One of my all time favorite games.

[@Highwiind]

Anyone know why PSX would play in black and white while using Mike's adapter?

[@LusRetroSource]

The official core hasn't been updated with the new framework yet, which is why you get a black & white image. You will need to use the forked core Mike created for now. You can enable those cores in update all.

[@Highwiind]

@@LusRetroSource Thanks for the answer. And also for creating this tutorial. Those selling these adapters should consider linking to your vid because instructions are pretty lacking.

[@Will-xk4nm]

@@LusRetroSource THanks for the info. That was my question as well. Love your channel!!

[@aiw437591]

That S-Video looks so crisp

[@brentgreeff1115]

Good video. Nice explanation, but I hope we get to the point where - if I plug in a composite, I dont need to set jumpers & INI, - it just works. MISTer as a platform should support composite as a standard output. - Alternatively in the MISTer main menu, should be a menu option: OUTPUT: [comp / SVID / SCART / HDMI] - You demo outputting to 3 TVs but you didnt say what the INI is set to in that case.

[@LusRetroSource]

I don't see it becoming plug n play unless there are some major redesigns to the add-on boards and also the project being FPGA agnostic. MiSTer is a hobbyist project and things are added as needed. Lot's of features were never originally intended. For outputting to 3 TVs, its the same exact same ini settings as I mentioned in the video and on the video description.

[@brentgreeff1115]

@@LusRetroSource - At least its set-and-forget for people with multiple TVs.

[@WalrusFPGA]

You can already select different INI's from the main menu, up to 4 total. If you needed to switch to component for some reason it would be as easy as just choosing one of those other INI files. If you cant see the screen because of conflicting INI settings, there are also controller combinations you can press to activate the different INI's from the menu.

[@brentgreeff1115]

@@WalrusFPGA - not really what I mean - but if its a matter of having standard INIs for different output modes - then... there could be built in pre-configured INIs and selecting COMPOSITE in the menu - could enable it.

[@ADistantImage]

Lu you beautiful bastard. You have no idea how good your timing is for me. Literally just bought a tiny composite CRT

[@LusRetroSource]

Awesome! Enjoy that television!

[@WalrusFPGA]

Thanks for putting this together! I'm planning on picking up one of Mike's active adapters to try this out soon. More looking forward to it after seeing this!

[@LusRetroSource]

Glad to help out!

[@Muda_Muda_Muda_Muda__]

S-Video is so cool. Sync on Luma I call it super video

[@cortbelmont]

Most people do call it super video, I used to hear that term a lot during the 90's with high end VCRs they said: "it Looks a lot sharper as it supports super video"

[@Muda_Muda_Muda_Muda__]

@@cortbelmont Love it love it love it love it. Honestly the forerunners who discovered that TV standard should call it super video not just "separate video". Btw the nickname for composite is equally lame instead of calling it composite video blanking sync, they should call it snowless or blurry video!

[@cortbelmont]

@@Muda_Muda_Muda_Muda__ to be honest using composite after being used to RF feels like going HD, no snow, no noise, no bars, just blurry... I agree blurry video is a good nickname