MLPFiM Finale - The Grogar Twist And How It Ruined Discord [Reupload]

[@thatrandomredengine9430]

It STILL sucks to see G4 Mlp go out like this. Grogar being Discord is the largest ass pull the series EVER did. Not only were we robbed of an amazing final battle with an OG Mlp villain returning. Maybe we could’ve have a redemption arc of Terik, Cozyglow, and Chrysalis learning to care about people other than themselves. That’s what throughout the season felt like it was building up to with them. But nope, they get thrown into main villain role even though Grogar would have made a much better finale conflict. A goat dude so racked with hate and wrath he decided to use the power of friendship against Equestria. It really sucks g4 had to end on such an abysmal note like this, through the writers chasing the shocking plot twist, they completely derailed any enjoyment the finale had been building up from the last season. With this problem only getting worse by the comics (aka season 10)

[@Master-Works]

That is exactly my thauhgts!

[@pepito2847]

Tbh though Terik and Chrysalis never came off as villains that showed signs of being capable of redemption Perhaps a case can be made for Cozy Glow though since she was still a filly

[@thatrandomredengine9430]

@@pepito2847 maybe a better twist would be Grogar found out about the others staging a coo against him. So he pulls a fast one and nabs the bell and throws them out. With the trio realizing how powerful Grogar is now, they are forced to team up with the mane 6 in order to defeat Grogar. Not only could you squeeze in an entertaining conclusion to the series, but shine each of the main six’s strengths and have a redemption arc for the antagonists. It would sorta echo the beginning of the series, fun and entertaining story, the main cast showing off their defining traits, and a redemption arc of the once evil villain. Their are so many way there story could’ve gone, but they went with the most cliche and laziest way possible.

[@pepito2847]

@@thatrandomredengine9430 And I for one feel like they should’ve given us more insight as to what CozyGlow’s motives and backstory were

[@thatrandomredengine9430]

@@pepito2847 agreed, I like Cozyglow (I see her as a better and less annoying version of Diamond Tiara) but yeah, she definitely could’ve used some depth.

[@masterturtle6512]

The Death Battle with Bill Cipher did Discord’s character justice.

[@SunGodNika-bi2jr]

That's how I wish he went out,sacrificing himself for his friends

[@moisieiev7124]

The only explanation for Discord's behavior, is that he is a terrible troll from a nature 'cause he's a lord of chaos. And his betrayal in season 4 finale was also a part of his plan for boosting Twilight's confidence. The only purpose for which Celestia brought him back, is for him to serve as a weapon, and Fluttershy was required in order to contain him from taking over Equestria. And the only reason why he never received any punishment, was because everybody knew that he's being like that from a nature

[@thereviewranger4187]

Thank you for reuploading this video! Even though Zaid has done some pretty terrible things, I did like a number of his videos, and this one is my personal favorite of his! And I honestly find it shocking how Death Battle of all things gave Discord a better conclusion than the one he had in MLP FiM.

[@Time-machinery-er9dq]

Whether or not any of us is for or against that plot twist, from what this video says, the staff had actively lied to the fandom that they were genuinely bringing Grogar back for Season 9, but I think it's time to dive deeper into that statement. An image was linked here at this timestamp (2:37), with a tweet saying that "A[n] evil arises on #MLPSeason9 from Tartarus and its a fan favorite from the fans Grogar is coming to #MLPFIM on the new 26 episode season!" This tells me that, according to the tweet, that Grogar has arisen from Tartarus and will appear in Season 9. That means that the first words of the tweet would basically spell out "[Grogar] arises on #MLPSeason9 from Tartarus". From what I understand, the real Grogar was never shown arising from Tartarus, nor was Discord before he pretended to be Grogar. However, there might be an explanation for this tweet: the real Grogar _was_ seen, albeit briefly in a picture book in "The Ending of the End", so the staff could have been referring to the real Grogar having escaped Tartarus offscreen but never physically appearing, but still technically appearing in some form due to him being in that picture book. This way, the tweet could align with the Grogar/Discord plot twist. It's still very confusing to me though, because the show itself, from what I understand, never confirms Grogar (or even Discord pretending to be Grogar) arising from Tartarus.

[@klowell19]

well acording to one of the MLPFiM theory makers they found this line Discord said and I quote it "Tirek, Chrysalis, and Cozy Glow now have all of the REAL Grogar's magic" so which means Grogar was not just only a plot twist for Discord but. There's a REAL Grogar with a REAL history, REAL bell and REAL battle, some could say the REAL Grogar was fused into his bell by Gusty which is why the bell sound like it was screaming, or Gusty banished the REAL Grogar to the shadow realm like in G1 or my favorite theory Gusty banished the REAL Grogar to the nighttime sky and became the constellation Aries and was those stars that bailed out Nightmare Moon's escape in season 1 episode 1 aka "Friendship is magic part 1" (no really the first two episodes are named after the 4th generation's nickname)

[@justsomethingyouseeonline7387]

Well Discord said this "Tirek, Chrysalis, and Cozy Glow now have all of the real Grogar's magic" which means there was a real Grogar with a real bell and a real history Now what happened to the real one? Well it evolves Gusty the great a unicorn whose magic can last longer then Starswirl's anyways there are three things that could've happened after the real Grogar lost to Gusty 1. Gusty fused Grogar with his bell 2. Gusty could've banished Grogar to a different realm like how (Grogar was banished in G1 or how in the 4th generation Starswirl banished the sirens to the world on the other side of the magic mirror) 3. Gusty banished Grogar into the stars turning him into the constellation "Aries" which are the same stars that bailed out Nightmare Moon

[@renamon5658]

Discord pulled a nagito from Danganronpa

[@rockmangurlx4973]

Shame this guy sort of went off the deep end, as, while I didn’t agree with everything he said, many points he had I think were solid.

[@icedemon8419]

The points he made in this video weren't solid at all.

[@Dog_Fanatic]

​@@icedemon8419Can you explain more as to why please? (I mean this with no angry sarcasm at all, I'm just genuinely curious 🤔).

[@icedemon8419]

@@Dog_Fanatic I posted a comment in this video that gives a in-depth explanation of why Zaid's point are not valid.

[@bethanysingsmrs849]

what happened to him

[@thereviewranger4187]

One thing that Zaid didn't bring up in this video is the deactivation of the Cutie Map. After Sombra destroyed the Tree of Harmony, the Cutie Map was never used again after that. Apparently, the creators of FiM posted a tweet that explained something about the map's connection to the tree getting reset and they didn't have time to figure out how it worked. Still, I would have preferred for the ponies to try and fix the map after the Treehouse of Harmony appeared so that they could continue solving friendship problems across and beyond Equestria.

[@KidDangerthepony]

Kid Danger: *wearing his mighty pup movie outfit and slaps his face with his hoof and slides his hoof on his face pulling his face and letting his face go* Christ on a Graham honey cracker! Why the *goat baa* did Discord do that stupid plan in the first place?! Twilight didn't need a any boost like at all! I wouldn't even let Discord feed my nubian goats if Fluttershy and the girls are busy with their own things! Why the *goat baa* were anypony ship Discord with Fluttershy?! I wouldn't have Discord NEAR Fluttershy if he begs and pleased with me! Hell, I ship Fluttershy with me, Kid Danger the pony aka Donatello21! Yes, i have a long name. Shut the *goat baa* bout my name.

[@MichaelB-zd4st]

This twist was just awful and not only butchered discords character but also made he's character arc pointless This was one of his best videos btw

[@icedemon8419]

Did you not pay attention to what was going on with Grogar and the Legion of Doom or Discord's character? His video regarding the Grogar Twist and Discord's character is abysmal.

[@bradygliwa2662]

Looking back on this video, I realized that, after I 1st saw this, I only rewatched it because of the Grogar section, since I was among those who were livid over the twist to the point that I even warned some of the analysts of this twist, though I didn't spoiled it for them & ruined a lot of my investment in The Ending of The End because of it. I guess it's because, unlike Zaid, this surprisingly didn't ruin Discord to me after I had some time to think about as I could see how him not realizing that Tirek, Chrysalis & Cozy betrayed him as just 1 of his flaws showing itself, though I'm not Thadmaster7. If Discord was going to recruit the other villains, then he should've done it to try & reform them the same way Fluttershy & Twilight did & not just for the sake of keeping Twilight's boost in confidence up. Also, I do hate how he writes off Fluttercord because of this now. I know that this isn't the last time he shittalked Discord since he did it in his videos on the Season 10 comics & the Gen 5 comics like how Cartoonishi kept slandering The Loud House to me & LonelyFanboy48's chagrin.

[@saintsheepy6682]

While I don't agree with Zaid that the MLP: FiM finale including Last Problem was good (in my headcanon there are only 4 seasons of FiM), I agree with him on this twist. Seriously, trying to wrap my head around this...well now I know how Krillin felt when Goku told him to spare Vegeta at the end of the Saiya-jin saga, it was these constant karma houdinis that started from season 5 throughout that caused the show to literally go down the 🚽.

[@MichaelB-zd4st]

Are you talking about Mary Sue glimmer?

[@saintsheepy6682]

@@MichaelB-zd4st As Big Mac would say, eeyup. What's sad is Starlight could have worked as an extra character if the writers had actually put forth the effort to make her have flaws and earn development/growth it would have worked (someone even said one thing that would have worked is, have her NOT be forgiven at the end of "Every Little Thing She Does", have her get kicked out of Ponyville in disgrace, and then have her come back to save them all in "To Where And Back Again", that would have worked [also get rid of her sociopath traits]), but they didn't. And seeing how bad Discord got butchered here, along with how he was in later comics (I don't count any of the comics nor G5 as canon in my eyes neither), to quote Hermes from the fifth Percy Jackson book, if I were Celestia back in season 3 of FiM, and I somehow was able to see the future, I wouldn't have just left Discord as a stone statue, I would have destroyed it so he'd be blown to dust. Scattered to the wind. With luck, spread so thin that he'd never be able to form a consciousness again, much less a body.

[@calebprescott440]

To this day Mlp season 9 final was the worst cartoon final in History such wasted potential we could’ve have twilight and her friends fight grogar the whole season 9 just seem pointless and a waste of time

[@icedemon8419]

Absolutely not.

[@calebprescott440]

@@icedemon8419it was

[@icedemon8419]

@@calebprescott440 How?

[@calebprescott440]

@@icedemon8419wasted potential that we never have mane 7 vs Grogar, Disrespecting mlp G1, make Discord the true villain of season 9 by bringing back the villains teaching them to work together and putting twilight and her friends in danger and the final battle seems pointless to watch and not that entraining to watch plus the mean 3 acts like babies and fight sometimes

[@icedemon8419]

@@calebprescott440 Grogar was never meant to be the final villain and it shows because he barely has any screen time and the trio were more built up in Season 9 than Grogar was. He was going to get betrayed anyway even if he was the real Grogar. Discord's plan didn't stemmed from malicious intent, he genuinely wanted to help Twilight the best way he knows how. How was the final battle pointless? The trio eventually decided to work together and when they did that they were getting stuff done.

[@TOMNICE]

Discord was always a shit character ever since his debut. He was just another overpowered villain who only gets defeated bcuz he is too dumb and lazy to defend himself, giving him a 'redemption' arc only made things worse.

[@icedemon8419]

"He was just another overpowered villain who only gets defeated bcuz he is too dumb and lazy to defend himself, giving him a "redemption" arc only made things worse. Bro hasn't watched MLP FIM lol😂.

[@Birdsflight44]

​@@icedemon8419 Yeah, the point is that MLP isn't about power levels, and introducing Q from Star Trek was a great way to do that. Friendship was basically how they beat him in the source material, too IDK why this guy's going off on redemption arcs in a show where Friendship is repeatedly stated to be the most powerful magic in the multiverse

[@pepito2847]

I may not have been familiar with Grogar as a character due to FIM being the only My Little Pony series I am familiar with But yeah, I can definitely see why the twist of him being Discord upset many people and yeah it probably would’ve been coool to see grogar as an actual character That said, Discord is still one of my favorite characters in the series, as his well meaning but completely foolish screw ups I find to be somewhat relatable

[@BloomingStarDubs]

Do you have his videos of his rants on the Trump Guy episode (which he said was the worst episode of FG) and Steven universe?

[@turbobist2889]

NGL, I think his Steven Universe rant is the reason why people make fun of the show, and I think it's the video that ruined Steven's reputation and turned him into a punching bag for the internet

[@bradygliwa2662]

@@turbobist2889 My most hated section of that video was his Lapis section, since he did skip over some of her episodes & wasn't willing to see things from her side. Freezing Climber did a great video defending her, despite Baxcaber, BeeMeister & Gattling Goduck repeating some of Lily & Zaid's points.

[@TheMovieAndCartoonFan]

​​@@turbobist2889Nah, it was actually Lily Orchard's video from 5 years ago that gave Steven the bad reputation it has.

[@TOMNICE]

@@turbobist2889 ​ @TAWProductions2.0 You guys give too much credit for those videos.

[@Depths17]

One of the worst finales to an amazing show unfortunately. Still mostly enjoyed the era of G4 but yikes Same happened with the Star vs series

[@dredadiceman]

Aye do u got that Amber from Invincible rant video he did? Cuz ngl dat was da only time dat nigga was spittin

[@turbobist2889]

Something that I don't like about the rant is how Zaid claims that Discord bringing back an evil tyrant to kill him later is an evil action. I guess by that logic, Giorno is evil for putting someone through an endless death loop.

[@tylere.8436]

It is quite needless to resurrect a dead villain just to murder him again.

[@icedemon8419]

I heavily disagree with Zaid's rant on the Grogar Twist and Discord's character getting assassinated and I'll tell you why. 1. Grogar had minimal screentime and he didn't anything too crazy with it. All he did was to persuade the trio to put their differences aside and join forces to put an end to the Mane 6, along with the world. He spent more time plotting than actually doing something himself. The trio did WAY more in Season 9 (and even the series as a whole) than Grogar ever did. They were actually getting shit done. He had little to no build up either, which is unacceptable for a supposedly final villain. This makes sense because Jim Miller posted a tweet that the writers never intended on making Grogar the final villain of the show, that role was for the Tirek, Chrysalis, and Cozy Glow. Which is also important for my next point. 2. Grogar getting betrayed by the Trio was setted up since "Season 9 Episode 8, Frenemies". The trio weren't fond of working with Grogar, that's why they hid the bell from him, so they can wait for the right moment to strike and take his powers away so they themselves can use it. Not only that but while they were formulating their treachery, they were simultaneously creating distrust amongst the ponies in Equestria. It was pretty evident that they were going to be the endgame final villains. There are instances that shows that they were going to betray Grogar. You'd have to completely disregard all context for you think that his "subverts expectations" when it's clearly not if you actually paid attention. Keep in mind, the trio didn't know that Grogar was really Discord, they thought that he was the real Grogar, so even if that was the real Grogar, they still would've betrayed him regardless. 3. Claiming that The Grogar Twist assassinated Discord's character is laughable, and that's being generous. Discord has been setting up tests and challenges for the main characters since the Season 4 premiere. That's always been consistent to his character ever since and he kept doing that throughout the show. He's even done it in "The Best Gift Ever" special. Ironic how Zaid brought up and thought that it made his point stronger of Discord being out of character when in reality is the same damn thing. The only difference is that it involved 3 major villains in FIM. I smell a contradiction. Discord explicitly said that he was Twilight's safety net in case something goes wrong that infers with his plan, meaning that Discord had no evil intend while orchestrating his plan. Which debunks one of Zaid's points that he somehow reverted back to the dark side, which meant that his character got "regressed" which is blatantly false. His role as a safety net also applied for all the other tests he made in the series. Discord is of course also the sprit of chaos and disharmony, of course he's going to use chaotic means to accomplish what he wants to accomplish. Now people said that him being chaos personified isn't an excuse to bring their enemies back and let them all roam free and should not act chaotic and an idiot and blah blah blah, but you also have to remember is that not acting chaotic will cause his existence to fade away. As shown in Season 7 Episode 12, "Discordant Harmony". So yeah he does have a reason to always act the way he does and why he does the stuff he's done. 4. Discord did get punished for bringing the villains back. He got his powers stolen, he got scolded by his friends, and got chained up by the Trio. Discord made it very clear that he wanted to make up for his mistake and he did by freeing his friends who were imprisoned and plan a counterattack after pissing Tirek off about his father Vorak all while having no magic. He told his friends to save Equestria (and Fluttershy of course) and proceeded to fight the trio by throwing rocks at them. Noticed how Zaid didn't mention ANYTHING about that specific scene. It made sense why he was still forgiven by his friends. Despite his crazy plan, he still wanted to help Twilight become the best ruler of Equestria at the she can possibly be, unlike the trio who are completely rotten to the core and cannot does not want to change, that's right they REFUSED to redeem themselves. Discord while still being chaotic did in fact changed for the better. Again the only way for his rant to make sense is to ignore all context and spread headcanon. There are still more points that I can discussed on how Zaid is flat out wrong about this whole subject but I already spent a lot of time typing all of his out. Anyway not just Zaid but a lot of people who watches MLP FIM misunderstood Discord as a character and was somehow expecting "Grogar" to be the final big baddie of the show when he did next to nothing on-screen. It explains "Grogar's" absence, all the signs that the trio were going to be betray Grogar, and being the true final villains of the finale. The way how Grogar was written after Season 9 Episodes 1-2 "The Beginning of The End" already shows that he was never going to be the final villain of the finale that Zaid and many people presumed him to be.

[@Wiiguy1606]

@ice You havevery well written points. So many people are being so negative about the finale to MLP, especially about Discord. That it's actually to see a more positive reaction and you brought up a few good points. whether you hate the twist or not, that still doesn't take away the overall success of the series. Molly, complain about the series that season 9 is on Hulu instead of Netflix and that they never really put the last few seasons on DVDs like the earlier and mid seasons

[@yorukazato8074]

thank you, honestly just thank you. It's one thing for ppl to not like how it went, but disregarding the factual things the showrunners put in and making opinionated claims just to fuel their hate is frustrating. Personally, my only complaint with Discord is not running the idea by Celestia and Luna since they weren't the targets of his plan and also not keeping a tight leash on the other villains as well as actually having them go get an artifact that can take away his own powers(not saying this as a complaint of the writers as much as Discord as a character, after all id say this is rather consistent with his character, he never really leans on anyone with his ideas, except maybe Fluttershy but not much if any evidence for that and even if so Fluttershy was a part of the ones he wanted to boost the confidence of so... ya know lol. As far as not keeping a tighter leash goes with Discord's arrogance and overconfidence, which is what got him defeated in his debut, and just underestimating the others. As far as having them go get the bell, I honestly think he just wanted an extra layer of safety, after all he knows for sure Tirek absorbing enough magic can defeat him, and maybe if chrysalis had a way to get more of that changeling artifact to block magic, or really anything cause who knows, so I believe just in case he got bodied he would have that as his ace in the hole. As hurt as the others, especially Fluttershy was (i mean she was actually tearing up, the feels man) them forgiving him as he put himself on the line to get them free and still fighting without his magic and just the belief that he was genuinely trying to be helpful, and a good friend makes sense. I do hope they scolded him out of scene to never do anything like that again though lol. I honestly have more gripes with the actual last episode more than I do this arc.

[@joshuaball5916]

Why the hell do you have to re-upload Zaid's bad videos?

[@TOMNICE]

This is actually a good video.

[@saintsheepy6682]

This is a good video.

[@icedemon8419]

I can't take this video seriously, Zaid took an L.

[@icedemon8419]

​@@TOMNICE How?

[@icedemon8419]

​@@saintsheepy6682 Elaborate.

[@dnirikirinb]

FiM was never good tbh.

[@rockmangurlx4973]

Incredibly overrated and overly praised when there are far better examples of media that target a female demographic (sorry Bronies, it’s true) with friendship and bonds through love as central themes.

[@rockmangurlx4973]

Just a note, not saying a man can’t watch the show. Anyone can watch anything, a lot of what I like is more geared towards men. But to claim it wasn’t for girls is just being willfully ignorant.

[@Master-Works]

I liked season 1. Season 1 got me hooked

[@shadowleon659]

​@@TheMovieAndCartoonFan I can't believe I used to like this show.

[@icedemon8419]

That's 100% cap...

[@MichaelB-zd4st]

I think the only reason they came up with this stupid twist was they wanted to rush G5 out the window to get as much money from people as quickly as possible

[@tylere.8436]

Well, it was dumb on Hasbro's part then, since G5 got canned after only like 3 years

[@Woodenrailwayoliver20]

It’s honestly quite depressing to see all of those many months of progress Zaid had made after he returned to KZbin in September 2022 only for it all to get completely thrown out the window. It’s also just as depressing that Zaid would listen to Tek-no and That Creepy Reading when they were telling him to act selfishly aka delete his KZbin channel. For all of those idiots who told Zaid to delete his channel, fuck every single one of you. Zaid made very important videos and live streams calling out and getting the word about monstrous people and company (Netflix) and helped victims. But now some of those videos and livestreams are now gone (with the exception of the video Why defending cuties ain’t cute that has been rightfully re-uploaded by other users) thanks to Zaid acting impulsively again by listening to you idiots. I can totally imagine that Lio convoy dragged Tek-no and That Creepy Reading into call and rightfully yelled at them for telling Zaid to delete his channel.

[@millabasset1710]

He was a sperg who threatened people with violence and harassed people over video games and cartoons in his mid 30s. The dude was pathetic and got what he deserved.

[@TommyPinkino]

Well，if you think this is BXXXXXXT ，than you just do what I do，s8s9 worked totally the same as what you want in a parallel world