Did Seattle's Stefan Frei Deserve a Red Card for DOGSO?

Andrew Wiebe is back with another edition of Instant Replay as he breaks down the most controversial plays of the weekend.
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[@mls]

Let's try this again, upload #2.

[@spencerporter3610]

Brings me no joy to tell you that at @7:11 you misspelled "milestone." You know, it happens to the best of us. All good.

[@antoniobanderas7810]

Why isn't the MLS Review Show that recaps the weekends games not on youtube anymore???

[@Ryanwhit88]

Frei’s red card was rescinded if anyone was curious

[@davidgilbert7789]

You beat me to it.

[@KRowDreamForge]

Official statement only says rescinded but does not address what the original crew observed vs why the panel disagrees. That would be insightful.

[@pitdoctor]

I said on the other version of the video that maybe we need to stop going to super slow-mo on a lot of these. It can really make it look like someone is doing something tney aren't doing. And it just came down that Frei's red card has been rescinded. The independent review panel determined that he was making a play on yhe ball.

[@rock6606]

My takeaway from the Frei play is that the double jeopardy rule needs work. Not only because judging whether someone was making an honest play for the ball is very difficult and sometimes impossible, but also because the rule lacks proportionality. Currently, in the box, a jersey tug by a defender when an attacker still has to beat the keeper is a more severe offense than a keeper desperately lunging for the ball, coming nowhere close, and preventing the attacker from tapping the ball into the goal.

[@wolffriendinus]

At first I was saying red card cause it looked like Stef had grabbed his leg and Stef knows better. Seeing these other angles though, not a red card.

[@shinglepicker]

Great analysis this week

[@jad.ampXaep]

There's no way the red bulls still did not get shown still a missing pen and an unfair call last week

[@rockinmel1]

You know, you can update the video without deleting the comments. Anyway, we now know that the bad ref call against Frei was a bad ref call. If he’d have left it a yellow and let VAR update he wouldn’t have looked so bad. Oh, and we get the full Chara sequence - sets new records for games played AND yellow cards given every time he steps on the pitch. Thank you for your “service” 😂

[@jeremiahrowley6263]

Still failed to go over Phillys goal that should have been ruled as offsides

[@bradleyklemetson375]

I was thinking the same thing. I'm not certain he was offside or not. I was hoping they would have gone over it.

[@finntheirish13]

Orlando city is causing their own missery, but I feel like there should also be considerstion for McGuirres talent as he could have easily beat those defenders from that angle as he has done many times before and is confortable scoring from that angle.

[@sterlingmarshel6299]

Frei's red card was reversed

[@TheRealMikeySullivan]

How in the hell they overturned this I can not understand. He's the last man and moves his hand up and straight into the players knee after the ball passed him. It's intentional, it's a red card, no contest.

[@MrCho14]

3 people's opinion is what overturns these things. 2 of them are not referees. The 3rd is recommend (appointed?) by PRO so let's assume they have some knowledge.

[@jakesimpson5233]

Could the call on Arango potentially have been two yellows? One for the foul and another one just moments later for the kick? I doubt many would call it like that but I could see a world where the law could be interpreted that way

[@MrCho14]

Both technically could be yellow cards back to back. The initial foul I don't think is anywhere near a yellow. A better outcome on this play would be a card for the player rolling on the ground pretending to be injured and a yellow (or possibly red) to the one kicking the ball into his opponent after the whistle.

[@ronaldbaglien3457]

I definitely think that was a red card offense by Frei. No question he played the man.

[@bradleyklemetson375]

I bag on weibe all the time for his flip flopping and occasional horrible takes. So I feel I have to admit it when he gets it right too. This week was spot on. He was right about the RSL call. I also thought red for Frei when watching live but I can see how maybe it should be yellow. Well done Weibe. Some tough calls this week.

[@davidliebert1773]

Why would Frie’s red be reversed? He reached up to the opponent’s knee? If we look at intent at the time of decision to make a play and not at the results, Portland’s goalie should have not received a red two weeks ago, yet he did with no reversal. A lot of yellows, reds and general fouls would never be called. I feel Andrew Wiebe’s commentary on Frie’s red is very contradictory with his own commentary on many other plays he reviews. Reffing is hard!!!

[@stephenrothman6969]

When somebody pulls a shirt, in my opinion the referee doesn’t need to consider how hard the pull was. Unlike a border line shove or rough tackle, there is no reason to pull a shirt other than to cheat. Red card every time there is a shirt pull. If you don’t like it, don’t pull shirts. That’s not part of the game.

[@chriscraft2444]

Frie’s Red Cad was rescinded. Why is Refs/VAR so bad, just ruined the game with a bad call.

[@shayEspinoza]

Can we just drop the "clear and obvious " metric for review? When var takes 3-6 minutes it's not clear and obvious

[@MrCho14]

Last week's long reviews seemed to be bad technical skills by the VAR crew struggling to find the right angle (which was obvious once they did), getting the right zoom, etc. Most of the time this is what the longest delay is and becomes very clear and obvious once they figure out the right angle. I'm not sure the best solution there other than more eyes on it? Better operators of the equipment?

[@shayEspinoza]

@MrCho14 there are many reviews where the ref is looking at the best angle for well over 2 minutes before making a decision. To me that would not be clear and obvious. I'm fine with the right call being made in the end, but just drop the stupid clear and obvious metric and say the review will take as long as it takes for the refs to make the call

[@MrCho14]

@@shayEspinoza My answer was generic as you don't say what call you're talking about but it sounds like there may be one you're referring to. The laws do actually call for accuracy over speed which is what I think you're asking for, "There is no time limit for the review process as accuracy is more important than speed." At the same time, you need some sort of standard to send the call for a review. 'clear and obvious' is the line, which as we've seen isn't always clearly defined, but even if we drop the words we still need something else to go on or we'll get into situations where guessing is okay.

[@shayEspinoza]

@MrCho14 nope there is tons of language that can be used that's not as nefarious "clear and obvious" ref listen to var for 2 minutes before going to the monitor for another 3 is just not clear and obvious

[@MrCho14]

@@shayEspinoza Different language is fine, but I thought you were saying there shouldn't something defined, but different language generally just moves the line.

[@wcsartanddesign]

Why did this get uploaded, deleted and re-uploaded?? There were some good and needed convos happening.

[@Thomas8manGames]

lol no just the first edit ended a little early XD

[@wcsartanddesign]

@@Thomas8manGames MLS is trashy for not simply adding another video instead of deleting "the wrong one" and re-uploading "the right one".

[@nathankwan197]

Where is the Dallas-Houston red card?

[@MrCho14]

Probably because it's not controversial at all. It is exactly why DOGSO was put in the Laws.

[@ericc4992]

Re: Frei red card. Ball on the pitch, challenge thigh high. Playing the ball? Whaaaat are you talking about?

[@chriswhetton3584]

The card was just rescinded. In slow motion it looks like he tried to grab the player but in real time it really doesn't.

[@Ryanwhit88]

The red card was rescinded so case closed

[@carlosaleman3004]

No ATL ? There seemed to be a defender keep Giakoumakis on at the very top. Only seen from one camera angle.

[@venompanda3526]

You didn't go in depth about it, but I think the second yellow on Chara is way too harsh. I'd give him a warning because he tugs Atuesta way before he falls down, and when he put his knee on the ground, there was no contact at all on Atuesta. There was minimal contact on Atuesta, I was surprised that Chara got a yellow instead of Atuesta for simulation.

[@MrCho14]

They were both fouls by Chara. They both stopped promising attacks. There isn't much else to it.

[@Golfnut_2099]

Refereeing is NOT hard when you have the assistance of video review. It amazes me that calls like the Frei red card still happen. Leads me to believe more and more in the MLS fixing matches conspiracy.

[@Sklounst_Actual]

Frei is a professional goalkeeper that knew what he was doing. Unfortunate, but DOGSO RC with no honest attempt to play the ball

[@Olmak]

That was definitely my interpretation of it during the game, but DisCo did rescind the red card.

[@chriswhetton3584]

The card was just rescinded, an independent panel determined he was making.a play on the ball. Which I didn't agree with initially but watching it in real time a few times, I find it unlikely that he was trying to just grab the player.

[@Sklounst_Actual]

@@chriswhetton3584 Huh, interesting

[@chriswhetton3584]

@@Sklounst_Actual yeah, I was surprised it got rescinded given that it has to be a clear error, and I am not sure this was a clear error. Maybe they felt bad for Seattle 🤷‍♂️

[@PNWestBlotter]

​@@chriswhetton3584refs feeling bad for Seattle would be a first

[@LanceKirkman]

Rerelease?

[@johnmcgimpsey1825]

The first version was cut off at the end

[@LanceKirkman]

@@johnmcgimpsey1825 oh, didn't catch that My apologies

[@SamualHadge]

Nothing on the Miami New England game???? Really? I was hoping for some reviews on Miamis not called fouls. Theres one where Nacho Gil is American Footbal style tackled. Shoulder into his side and the defenders arm around his knee. Right before Miamis 3rd goal Vrioni gets brought to the ground from behind and the defender lays on top of him pinning him down and nothing was called. Andrew Wiebe tweeted some clips from the game and couldn't comment on those?!?!?

[@ArgonWolf1]

This is official league media, friend. They arnt gonna be producing anything that could put their golden child in a bad light

[@graciey328]

The ball hit Arango's chest. he embellished it

[@CopperCanyonTerrapins]

Still doesn't give Bedoya the right to kick the ball back at him, regardless of where the ball impacts Chicho, it is violent conduct...

[@DukeTrout]

@@CopperCanyonTerrapinsYep. And it looks like it catches his chin. And some people seem to forget that dirt or turf turds probably get sprayed into his face with a kick from that close.

[@CopperCanyonTerrapins]

@@DukeTrout I noticed that too when watching the replay slowed down. Should have been a straight red for violent conduct.

[@chicknbangr]

It’s always a good day when Chara finally gets the yellows he deserves. Every other game he could deserve 2 yellows but the refs are too scared to dish them out

[@SPARTlATE]

Refs doing everything they can to help cincinnati once again

[@zeethzultan2967]

If that were the case wouldn’t they have counted the 3rd goal??

[@theLordsboy]

If referees would just call any clutching and grabbing, as holding. Clutching and grabbing is an intentional act that is yellow card worthy. Trying to apply gradations to what should be carded and what shouldn't be is just a plain ignorance of the rules of the game.

[@Cthulhu3C]

All of those were clear reds lol

[@Ryanwhit88]

Frei’s red card was rescinded so no…

[@maxat199]

I love mls please pin me mls is such a good league.

[@pahakuutti]

Since Stroud is scoring from that position without a foul from Frei almost 100%, and the pen is only a 78% probability, Frei has to be sent off. Otherwise he has an incentive to always make the foul, and the breaking the rules cant be allowed to become profitable.

[@beaglelover338]

He old just retire

[@EvieWillNotDie]

Never a red on Frei, clearly gone to block the ball

[@maxat199]

I love mls please pin me it is such a good league.

[@DxD93]

NO it's not deserved

[@khamel45]

Ill go ahead and assume all the people calling me crazy for saying Frie shouldn't have gotten a red are gonna ignore that I was right.

[@noahtalley4351]

Ngl it is 50/50! Both arguments are understandable.

[@DoctorDer26]

In my view, this should have been a DOGSO-Y, not R.

[@graciey328]

I agree. Since he's a goalie, he was putting his hand out for the ball.

[@johnmcgimpsey1825]

Nope. Ball's on the grass, hand's rising to the knee. That's playing the man, not the ball... I usually give the benefit of the doubt to gk's, but Frei wasn't looking to pop the ball up in front of his own goal.

[@khamel45]

@@johnmcgimpsey1825 Maybe watch the video first. That's addressed.

[@Charles-gz7xu]

Still poorly executed. New upload or not. Need to do better.

[@andrewdl6824]

The Orlando player would have had a clear shot in the box about 12 yards out. Why does it have to be a straight-on shot opportunity? He had a high-probability shot on a breakaway, stolen by an intentional foul. This is hurting the game. We want to see the shot. We need a tougher rule. Same with all the flagrant late hits after passes, it's a bad example for the youth to hit or grab intentionally as part of the game plan.

[@KRowDreamForge]

100%

[@MrCho14]

huh? It was explained well. By the laws of the game, that's just not a red. I do agree that it was worse than a foul at the half line stopping an attack and it would be good to be able to punish harsher, but it also comes with a free kicker in a dangerous spot as well.