MMOs are dead and I'm tired.

[@MMOByte]

There's just nothing exciting in the MMO genre anymore. It's such a depressing thought, but if you're not playing one of the DECADE OLD MMOs, you're not playing an MMO. And have very little to look forward to for YEARS. What do you think? Are you having as much fun in the MMO genre as you used to?

[@KevTheKing236]

It’s really unfortunate, along with getting into your channel around 2020 I started getting really deep into MMO’s and I genuinely haven’t seen a single NEW mmo drop. I got into Pso2 and had a lot of fun and then NGS dropped 2 months later and it was literally dead on release. Was excited for blue protocol and look at that, riot MMO and look at that. It sucks as someone who’s starved wanting to get into this genre more and more and seeing every developer drop it or move into something else.

[@Toolbox12-y1p]

why don't you make your own mmorpg LOL

[@Divide33]

I’m having a ton of fun in WoW season of discovery and Pandaria Remix to be honest. Really fun, truly reigniting my WoW passion

[@DannyboyO1]

I've kinda been getting my MMO itch scratched by Helldivers 2 lately.

[@Toolbox12-y1p]

become a game developer stix

[@KevTheKing236]

Blue protocol has gotta be one of my biggest disappointments ever. So much potential being wasted

[@MMOByte]

I feel like that's every MMO release of the last few years lol

[@paradoxwraith5275]

I didn't even want to hear about it after they censored sh.

[@XeqtrM1]

The only thing I didn't like was the gacha thats all other wise the game was good enough but how people r today no MMO will ever be good enough because MMO isent made to rush but that's how people does it if they actually played how it is ment to be they would enjoy the game alot more il say it now no modern MMO players would last a month with OG wow from 2004 not classic but vanilla when we didn't know when raid came etc no quest helper nothing were people used about a month to get to 60

[@Xesxus]

That could be said about a lot of mmos

[@XeqtrM1]

@@Xesxus I just used em as a example nothing more I don't want to type every MMO that exist but at the end of the day it's r fault for rushing em

[@Mexican00b]

MMO means "massively *monetized* online games"

[@chilomine839]

Imagine if they made a start to finish Tales series like story but with a MMO style battle system and loot system and put them on a disk. Sadly anime-ish style games have been relegated to MMOs or gachas.

[@mramisuzuki6962]

15$ a month for WOW at the time was a legit price issue for many people.

[@dcry1003]

thats the new meaning sadly

[@TyeCoz]

Massively Monetized Online Roll Pulling Games

[@EzkMonkey]

This comment made my day

[@ahmedtag3904]

Aren't we all old friend 😔

[@Dexiray]

comma, use it. I read that 3 different ways 😂

[@ahmedtag3904]

​@@Dexiray I mean we are all here sharing this sad moment with our friend stix and then there are morons like you pointing out grammar mistakes like my guy this a fucking random comment on KZbin when the fuck do I have to write it like I'm writing a goddamn resume

[@charroboo]

​​@@Dexiray I read it 13 diferent ways

[@ROMVS]

​@Dexiray understanding is comprehension and getting past the noise, no need to be the grammar police in a public comment on a video, just blame their autocorrect and assume better off others

[@Unknoyz]

nah i dont know u

[@hpharold23]

P2W, P2ADVANCE, P2SKIP P2COSMETICS are just the cancers to mmos

[@FlamespeedyAMV]

yet people keep playing games and supporting it

[@ricksouza9299]

P2cosmetics is fine

[@miguelorozco4445]

there is nothing wrong with paying for cosmetics, unless they are like skin gacha that costs $50 dollars

[@FlowerSong606]

paying for cosmetics should be the only way mmos should be but no they gotta kill themselves with p2w

[@ChrisNP87]

Truth!!

[@Nobuwaroo]

"Pseudo MMO" is probably the way of the future for mmos. Games that mimic or simulate that MMO feel. Like monster hunter world, and wilds in the future, large public lobbies at most.

[@SkinalX]

You mean rpg with coop 😅

[@shinkai9kami162]

Like xenoverse 2

[@richcast66]

It will come back, once real immersive virtual reality come out in a few decades

[@nenadarkpaw]

Good and somewhat optimistic take actually. I'd take MH over gacha games or asian F2P games every day of the week

[@tenkuken7168]

Granblue relink also the original granblue is just an mmo tbh but like it's 2d but there's a lot of player interaction in the game

[@wes705]

Everyone’s forgetting genshin, tof, hi3, and ww are all singular player rpg games with co-op. These games are not massive multiplayer online games

[@matschrepf]

Tof is not just a coop game I see players in game all the time. I oftern see players lower level to me also which makes me feel good haha

[@Miltendo]

ToF is literal multiplayer with multiple people in one map. it's gacha driven mmorpg

[@wes705]

@@Miltendo sry for the misinfo

[@Ted_Kenzoku]

@@Miltendo it's a multiplayer game, but not a massively multiplayer game. it's not an mmorpg. there are 30players in the map, not thousands. battlefield is more of an mmo than tof

[@DjimonMoz]

See, the problem with your mindset is that it's too literal. Just because they're technically different genres doesn't mean they don't cater to the same audience. Over the decades MMOs have amassed a huge influx of solo players. In other words, players who play MMOs for every reason OTHER than interacting with other people now have a list of games the cater to their specific needs, and with no subscription fee to boot. How many MMOs can you possibly expect the industry to put out, when most people are perfectly content with sticking to their LSG of choice? And that's another thing. People in the MMO sphere need to understand that MMOs ARE Live Service Games. They're the original Live Service Games. WoW, FFXIV, GW2 aren't just competing with each other, they're also competing with Genshin, Fortnite, Destiny 2, Warframe and so on. Once you stop making arbitrary distinctions between MMOs and LSGs, everything falls into place.

[@nahimanaraoul5349]

MMO was a genre that could have succeeded if people had a genuine desire to participate. Every time something happened in the MMO community, it was either developers stealing starter money and leaving an unfinished mess or no effort was made to make it fun.

[@darkness_120]

Just like Asmon said, MMOs used to serve as a community hub for people to interact with each other, times has changed since, with all the social media etc out there now, people just don't socialise on games like we used to on MMOs specially back in the days. People rather play solo, and many MMOs of the past has changed their direction to accommodate these changes, and were made worse as a result. For example Tera online, I used to play with some friends just after it went free to play, and it was great, had one of the best tab-target combat system, pvp was great, you needed a group of people to do the content around the game etc, and then they started to destroy the game, destroyed pvp, made all the content solo friendly, you pretty much could almost 1 shot most mobs around the world, specially the big ones that before you needed a group of 4 or 5 to do, the game was made boring, and happened to it, it got shut down... Now with Throne and Liberty we spent years waiting for it, it had many iterations of it through its development, and what we got if I'm being honest here is not that great, I have a friend who loves the game and he can't wait for Amazon to release it, and NC is hoping Amazon does a better job with the game then they did, and that the game is more successful here in the west then in there, but I doubt it. Game is pretty focus on PvP content, things locked behind time of the day including main quest of the game(that changed now since the launch in Korea), limitations of how much content you can do a day, some stupid decisions etc... game has a solid foundation but all these systems and decisions ain't going to cut it here in the west, and don't get me started on how P2W it is... I used to love MMOs but quite frequently I agree with Stix here, I'm tired, tired of waiting, tired of getting my hopes up... Ashes of Creation won't be the answer trust me, one the game won't come out until 2035 at this point, alpha 2 is about to start this summer and that was meant to have come out in 2018, so yhh, and rumour has it that it will be a buy to play and monthly subscription as well, and heavily focused on PvP as well, so no I'm not hoping for that one, I did back the project back in 2016-2017 when it was on kickstarter just like I did with StarCitizen, but I don't care anymore... so yhh I moved on, now I look for a good ARPG and bounce between them as they are seasonal, and survival games that's what I play nowadays.

[@IAmMrGreat]

@@fu1bu7c4r4çuc4r You're gonna keep waiting. "good free mmorpg", three words that don't fit together, even the first two alone is a stretch.

[@_Azurael_]

​​@@darkness_120 yep. Even soft mmos were like that. I played Vindictus for years with my friends. We then started playing league of Legends. The game was just a hub for US to gather when we had free time, and wanted to play together. Now Steam is the hub. And we play alot of diferent games, from cs go, to rust, bg3, or anything else that has Coop. Steam is my main MMO in a sense. And the library are the "mini-games" available

[@nashi._.7563]

@@darkness_120Yep! Couldn’t agree more. Social interaction & co op kept people coming back to MMOs back in the day

[@haisse6811]

You forgot to add that could have succeeded if people wouldnt have to make money for living... it takes you up to 8 hours to level up a level in classic or for example 30m to travel across the map between point a to b. People grow up

[@TheBeelzeboss]

Man, I resonated so hard with this video, as someone who has been playing MMOs for like 22 years and is currently reinstalling GW2 for the 11th time because there's just nothing to play, I feel this video paints an excellent representation of our frustration with the genre. Bro hug.

[@XionEternum]

I'm still of the belief that MMORPG has evolved into the survival genre. Sure, can't get thousands on a server like old-school MMOs, but the playerbase is there for them.

[@XionEternum]

Addendum: Modern cash-grab MMOs are going to fail because the pay-for-progress aspect is fleeting and leaves a sour aftertaste because it doesn't echo long-term. The only viable way to truly keep an audience is to give them a worthwhile reason to stay through good traditional gameplay systems of effort and reward. Something Warframe does well to a small extent in just the right ways; as the only reasonable example of doing both almost perfectly.

[@MMOByte]

Yup, that's where most people I know in the MMO genre migrated to.

[@ROMVS]

Good take! Hmmmmm

[@Dexiray]

i can't get around liking the survivor genre, sigh

[@theraredan]

no

[@raptorattack9043]

Part of it too I think is that when I was growing up, there was a mixture of minors and adults playing MMOs. But what games are kids getting into these days? I remember all throughout highschool I was always trying out new games, new communities, making new friends, but I feel like now the MMO genre is strictly adults and what do we not have a lot of to spare? Time. So it's going to make it really hard to sustain the genre if there's no way to rope another generation into it too. That's just my thought on it.

[@dallinjc3]

You're right man. Most kids can't pay a subscription fee themselves and parents don't wanna pay a sub for their kid to sit inside and play hours of an MMO instead of socializing outside or letting them just play Fortnite for free. Also the gameplay of MMO games generally is boring and slow and requires a massive commitment to get far in the game or get to endgame. I'm an adult and I want to play an MMO with fun combat, satisfying level progression and expressive customization. FFXIV is the only thing that comes close to the experience I want, but even that game is pretty slow and boring, the gameplay feels outdated, and a lot of things in the game just feel like a straight up chore. We need better MMOs that are actually fun to play for people all ages.

[@bellcranel8873]

I actually agree with your take here. Adults don’t want to put the long hours into an mmo anymore because we already had our glory years with it. The younger generation isn’t as interested in MMO’s, not sure why exactly but all I know is games are a business now and teams of people are trying to appeal to the younger generation and see how much money they can get out of them. Currently, it’s Battle Royals and Gatcha games, and here in 20 years(give or take) it’s going to be another game that inspires a new type of play. I think it will be VR

[@QuangNguyen-lj7ff]

​@@bellcranel8873 We love mmo back in the days because we dont use social media that much back then, the feel of gathering with people and progressing, communicating is so much fun.

[@woodcutte330]

Kids mmo nowasay is minecraft n roblox

[@mikigzaielart]

I was so hype for Blue Protocol...But now I don't know what to feel

[@ColtonCoss-n1c]

sorry I must be missing something.. what happened?

[@MMoaii]

@@ColtonCoss-n1c its basically delayed until further notice. Smilegate posted an announcement a little but ago mentioning that the game is not ready by any means to launch anywhere outside japan. So they are working with them. To what extent we have no idea. My hype has died due to the delay. Idc bout the censorship

[@3823100]

@@ColtonCoss-n1c its dead and its been dead for a while even en asia lmao, mainly because its been delayed for years now here in the west

[@Ineri-YT]

I feel spending even a minute in Blue Protocol is a waste of fucking time. You're welcome.

[@WateringDNami]

Feel back to genshin impact

[@LuvLexyU]

1. Nobody wants to socialize online anymore. We've come full circle to the point where most people would rather put music on, afk grind, then get off the game. Guilds are just dead space for people to have free buffs, nobody WANTS to queue up and party up with 'randoms' everyone wants entire strangers. MMo's thrived, because of the multiplayer aspect. Nobody wants to play with strangers anymore. 2. The COST to keep MMO's running is insane, their just not lucrative unless you have a prescription model that's ALONGSIDE expansions. OR you produce enough content that people will spend money on in a F2P manner, but then if you do the former people complain, and if you do the latter people complain. 3. MMO's were designed to have people stay with it. Too many people rush through MMO content, drain it, then toss it aside. That's a HUGE part of the issue. :/ Their games made for you to log on for a few hours every day, not to be binged all at once like a single player game.

[@trymv1578]

Its not quite nobody wants to socialize, but its also tied to that. Issue is more all the big games are 10-30m in, out, done. No round is ever the same. MMOs cant realistically do that without the community; Mythic+ random bullshit weekly in WoW is about as close as you get.

[@sham4124]

Have you ever played Guild Wars 2 my guy?

[@LuvLexyU]

@@sham4124 played and quit into the first expansion - all the mobs felt so spongey that I was hitting them for a while without really anything to go. Game also had a lot of confusing systems and convoluted shit to learn to progress and get 'truly' stronger that I felt like I was needing to take an exam just to get strong.

[@spankyjeffro5320]

1. Most other players are not worth talking to. Game play, sure. But most of the time chat is just unhinged cringe. 2. So stop listening to players. Tell them "This is how this works." and ignore them after that. 3. No, those players are their own issue. They rush through the game and complain that the 20 hours of content they just ran past is too slow 'cause it took them 1 hour. Again, ignore players. Most "problems" with games are not the devs or the game itself, the problem is the players.

[@Beamin439]

1: not true. socialization is no different now than it ever was. 2:they arent lucrative because the games suck. make games suck less and problem solved. the issue was stated correctly in the video. every mmo is a cash grab pay 2 win cash shop simulator designed to get as much money out of u as they can before the game dies. do you think anybody is actually making these shitty ass mobile anime mmos with the intention of them being alive 20 years from now? of course not. 3: not the players fault. and also not true. MMOs were always made to be binged. thats the entire point. they are ever-existing worlds that stay up forever. binging MMOs has been the culture of the genre since its inception. the problem is games have no content. they dont give you any. in world of warcraft the only content that ends is raiding. eventually you run out of bosses and you beat the raid. no point in doing it again. but theres also mythic plus dungeons. dungeons that get more and more difficult forever. you try to run up your rank as high as you can. infinite replayability. theres ranked pvp. same idea. run up rank high as you can. infinite replayability. most these other mmos release with like 1 raid. you finish and youre done. no reason to come back until another 1 releases. (thats another reason mmos die. pve sucks. all the top games are pvp games. pve doesnt keep people playing. pvp does.)

[@lenerlink]

After I had my 7 year run with Black Desert there was nothing else to look forward to, I pretty much "settled with PSO2:NGS" while shifting my attention towards Gatcha games.

[@MMOByte]

Yup.. most players have moved to either Gacha, or Survival games.

[@leywald]

Yo, same case here 5 years of bdo and now I'm playing Pso2:NGS 😂

[@idkdude6665]

Everyone shitted on pso2 ngs when it launched, it is worthy playing now?

[@SorarikoMotone]

@@idkdude6665 depends, but its definitely quite a bit better than before. gearing still's a tw@t, tho, with the prices to upgrade and shiz. also still ways to go from being "good" because we are barely into the updates that actually bring content people actually wanted (the instanced content), but its "okay" at the very least. but hey, at least i can make my femboy actually look good, so thats nice

[@obamabinladin1134]

@@SorarikoMotone as someone that finally played PSO when it came to Xbone/PC it was a great experience. THen when NGS came, It all came down with the downgrades when it launched. Especially, when I didnt even want to touch NGS yet. After looklng at NGS state over the years its sad where it is now compared to where PSO left the bar. Dropped the game a month after.

[@SorenVoices]

This video was due a while ago and i wondered if you ever were seriously going to do. Thank you for voicing our concerns.

[@kurikari1675]

The idea of mmo’s died a long time ago. People do not have time for this shit and there all built to time gate you to get you into a store, an then its slow decay over the course for a few years at best

[@MMOByte]

Yup. It's the sad truth.

[@mohamedti1]

Do you think it's possible to keep the massive multi-player online part but change the design (e.g. speed up) so it doesn't feel like a time sink?

[@kurikari1675]

@@mohamedti1 with the way publishers are and how much it takes to run this stuff, no. Pve content in these mmo’s arent actually fun to repeat every week like a job, and other players ruin the game by virtue of how shitty people gotta be in order to clear content. Back in bns there literally was no getting to endgame unless u no life or p2w. Also mmo’s are rly just massive single player online games. U dont interact with other people outside of raiding content usually speaking. If u want to make a live service game gotta be more like helldivers or palworld, or base it on pvp(fighting games) cuz that easily repeatable content

[@SorarikoMotone]

@@mohamedti1 thats what ngs tried, in all honesty, but you can see what it led to, coupled with the problems that the devs still dont know what they want the game to be, after more than a decade. and they still trying to fix it, dunno what it will lead us to

[@inuyasha.mp3]

meh i disagree, people waste multiple hours on slop like valorant. If there was an actual good mmo it would have a huge playerbase. The demand still exists, its just too much time to make one nowadays

[@Hailtothegun]

The MMO genre was never meant to be one that could sustain more than a handful of top contenders at a time. It shouldn't be looked at or treated like any other "genre" such as RPG, platformer, action, whatever. It is a live service game, and very few free-to-play MMOs survive long enough to make a dent. The biggest ones typically have brand recognition (Star Wars, ESO). Even the top two subscription-based MMOs are associated with a recognizable brand. The rare exception is Guild Wars 2, which has no pre-existing fanbase outside of the obvious GW1 - but that never really made the same splash as 2 did. Everything else that has come out in the last 20 years, even if they made a huge impact like Lost Ark, has since died off or lost a major percent of their player base. Rift. Eve. BDO. New World. Wild Star. Warhammer. It's not because "MMOs are dead." It's because the genre cannot financially support more than a handful of them. People cannot afford (literally, and also time-wise) to play them all. They are HUGE time sinks, and even F2P ones have some kind of cash shop to invest in. They are an ongoing investment that most people cannot juggle. Every other genre has games that exist with finite end points. The game is done, and you move on. MMOs are designed to keep playing. But most people aren't interested in keeping up to date with more than 1 or 2 neverending stories at a time. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

[@yummychips_]

I agree, and to add on. People assume that a new MMO they believe in will dominate, but it won't ever. To dominate, it has to be able to compete and take players from already established MMOS. New mmos do not do that. They try to cater to the people who are not part of the established communities, and hope to try to take from those groups. It will never work, and has never worked. Those new games will never have that scope, and the people on the hype train just don't understand that. It's fine to be hyped about a new "mmo", but a lot are just being unrealistic in expectations. You want free to play, well they have to make money some how. It is easy to just say sell cosmetics only, but if it really could work, why hasn't a MMO done so successfully? It is because it doesn't work, therefore they have to monetize aggressively for F2P games. That profit driven concept pushes the game towards profit driven mechanics. They literally design the game to be that way, because of F2P. Devs know this, they know that players will just play a little bit, and over time they will shrink. They design their games with that in mind, they know that the general community doesn't matter, because they will leave the game eventually. They only focus on the people who are willing to spend money and stay with the game. They use mechanics to keep those players logging in, but not enough depth to keep players occupied. I've understood the MMO scene was dead since F2P started to exist.

[@nathanalexandre9043]

That wasn't a TEDtalk 😮

[@ladyvictory5326]

It just really sucks alllll the mmos are high fantasy, high fantasy or anime high fantasy

[@somethinglikesilver5369]

You're spot on man. Deep down we're all still trying to re-visit that first time mmo experience but I don't think that will ever happen again. At best, I hope the future will have a re-ermegence of MMO hype but I fear that is a long ways out.

[@mikali1704]

no that's not true, what we want is the new good quality mmo

[@Xialoh]

It'll happen again. We're waiting for AI progression at this point.

[@Ted_Kenzoku]

@@mikali1704 nah we just want a decent mmo experience like we had before. we ain't askng for that much. it doesn't have to be perfect, just not some garbage money grab short term profit shit companies are making today that you play solo anyway and have to pay to continue playing.

[@Eddy_Stylez]

I think our only hope at this point is an AI driven mmorpg that can be run locally on our computers that simulates a 2004 world with thousands of players running around around talking to each other and able to talk to you. It have to be so advanced these "npc players" would appear identical to talking and interacting with another human player. Essentially an AI driven time machine to go back and experience what the online social world was like again because these days it's totally different.

[@hardxkor6561]

Despite how much fun I've had with WoW, nothing will ever be able to bring back that feeling of my first journey with Everquest.

[@deenman23]

its crazy to think about the fact that all the top mmo's are all over 10 years old,some over 20,this is an issue that only seems to plague mmo's

[@Rudbeckbitten]

"BuT rETAiL woW iS boOmiNg"

[@deenman23]

@@Rudbeckbitten well yeah,its doing pretty good,numbers had it at 7 mil recently,thats over double the nr 2 mmo,this isnt 2010 anymore,people have options,but anyways,even if it had 1 mil subs it weould still put it above anything under the top 5 by a lot

[@Rudbeckbitten]

@@deenman23 not 7 mil on dragonflight alone, there are alot of versions of wow ;)

[@deenman23]

@@Rudbeckbitten who cares?its the same sub,also retail has the biggest chunk anyways,and lets face it,people who play sod and cata are retail players,only the ones on classic vanila proly play just for classic,and even among them many play both

[@Rudbeckbitten]

@@deenman23 Retail has the most players yes, but look how much it spiked when classic wow came out. U cant just say retail got all the subs alone, thats false :D

[@TheSpectacledOwl]

It isn’t just MMOs. Gaming as a whole is in such a bad place right now, specifically the AAA gaming world. Indies seem to be doing well, generally speaking. Mobile games are what MMOs strove to be, but the technology was never there at the peak of MMOs. Now that the tech IS here, the MMO genre refuses to change their strategy, I find. I was definitely looking forward to Blue Protocol, but that seems to be failing before it began.

[@javelinmaster2]

The issue with MMOs is just that the take A LOT of time to play and thus ppl can mostly only play one of them. That plus a monopoly makes it very hard to really hard to actually compete in the market.

[@jon9590]

Well, the younger generation has become entitled to have everything instatantly and not work for anything. Also, devs these days keep pumping out trash.

[@xbosnaboyx1]

People are not willing to try new mmos because they are stickig to the old fashion like ff14 and wow. In my opinion blade and soul was the mmo that could have the most potential but they destroyed it for money.

[@sergeoh735]

The fact is every new mmo is badly designed and thats why they are dead. Not because people dont have time to play multiple. We have millions of people standing by waiting for a good mmo to drop. When new world was hyped up 1 million concurrent players were online thinking this was it. There are some people who would stick to old mmos cause no time but i think most of us are just waiting. People spend thousands of hours on league, warzone, rust, etc.

[@Robert-cx3ns]

@@xbosnaboyx1true bro, its because some mmos are stuck with the WOW and FFXIV gameplay thats so outdated. Such gameplay would make people fall asleep.

[@milberg4338]

@@jon9590shut up boomer

[@Collianthus]

MMOs aren't dead, just more and more players are moving to private servers for games better managed by fans.

[@ThaGodLegacyHD]

I completely agree. It's over for the MMO Genre.

[@Kasraken]

Well I think it all boils down to the fact that "back in the day" MMO was just a word, and that word was connected with good games you could play and socialize with other people around the world. The players of that era have all grown up now and the current generation of gamers use other forms of social media platforms to connect (such as Facebook, KZbin, Twitch, Reddit, Twitter and so on). All they need a game to be is just good and entertaining, it does not even need to be online or multiplayer to do that. Anyway I have typed too much. Good video!

[@randomf2pplayah768]

I still can't get over how people like using discord when the system is convuluted and janky asf just to "discuss" or "talk" about stuff when you can talk ingame.

[@Barnaclebeard]

You think we didn't have better ways to socialize on the Internet than MMOs before corporations commercialized our social spaces??

[@Eddy_Stylez]

@@randomf2pplayah768 Communication online shifted from conversational format to a comment > reply format like I'm doing right now. It's more efficient but also sad because it's more difficult to form connections with people this way. Also the thumbs up, upvote system turns this format into a game of ego inflation/deflation.

[@HalIOfFamer]

​@@randomf2pplayah768how is discord clunky it's literally the best voice over IP platform that has ever been created. And besides some people want to talk about other shit than what's happening in the game, imagine doing that in a CSGO game or any other competitive game, talking about your day to your homie while 3 other people are listening.

[@justiniansenpai380]

We really need to study the fall of mmo companies…

[@hamlap]

Shareholder value happened..

[@Ineri-YT]

Nothing to study really... veterans stay alive, new MMO are pay to win garbage that look for short term investment.

[@ErronBarbeeYT]

Follow the Money and Lack of Vision from Top to Bottom

[@browal14]

MMOs are expensive to develop, expensive to maintain and keep going, take a long time to get to 1.0 release and require massive player counts to keep the money coming. Look how long the MMO to save them all Ashes of Creation has been in development for, 7 years and no sign of it being released anytime soon if ever. Assuming they release the game. Can it even compete with GW2, WoW, ESO, FF14, RS who have player bases that have been playing for years and are deeply invested in the game

[@WateringDNami]

Chinese bots. Lazy devs. Greedy ceo or company

[@Orkbearpig]

I thought I was the only one thinking like this honestly I havent even been on this page because of it and I completely understand it's not on you but keep up the good work you are still very informative and help with your content whenever it is posted

[@thedevanthar1132]

Even Wayfinder, a game with one of the bigger f2p mmo publisher on the market, Warframes Digital Extremes, lost said publisher and went back to the drawing board and changes in a co-op style game instead of the 'promised' mmo. So sad for the people that bought the founders packs.

[@MMOByte]

Yup. Depressing to read that a few days ago.

[@Stanky_Foot]

ragnarok online enjoyers sipping tea. so many private servers, it'll take time to find a good one but they do exist, and i've sank thousands of hours in Shining Moon, and in Return to Morroc (closed but developer is launching an entirely new project with constant updates in the server discord, coming next year). I've sank thousands of hours in BDO as well, and it's really the only thing close to what I want in an MMO experience, however I was forced to sell my account over two years ago due to financial issues, was 680 GS. New world was fun for the first 200 hours, after that, I just grew tired because there isn't that "GRIND" any longer, you were just down to repeating their dungeons for different rolls on a same tier weapon, it doesn't give you dopamine if you're just going for rolls. That's why I liked ragnarok and BDO so much. There's actually RARE items, cards for RO, and rare drops like map pieces and compass parts for bdo, besides accessories modern mmos just dont hit the spot for me. I want the "Korean grind" and anime style, but I certainly do not like WuWa and genshin that much, if anything I liked honkai impact 3rd more than these two titles, but them being gacha really ruined the experience after quite some time. For now I'm just waiting for the new RO private server I'm mentioning to come out (Luna Obscura), and I will be playing other genres for now, overwatch is still fun, monster hunter world is a blast (looking forward to wilds)

[@felldoh9271]

Valuable info for RO I will consider playing Luna Obscura. I heard back in 2015 that RO was ruined when the economy system was ruined. Is this the case? Also, have you tried Horizon XI (a custom Final Fantasy XI server whose gameplay is from when the game peaked in 2006)?

[@sergiogil4983]

Companies no longer release games. Only money generators, with everything that is trendy. But since they take so long to develop, and trends go out of style, they delay them to modify them

[@avalokiteshvara113]

This is what happens when investors get involved

[@ficshl6036]

The very first MMO I played was AQW 13 years ago (Adventure Quest Worlds) and enjoyed it so much. Nowadays I don't get that feeling anymore from these "MMO" games.

[@KUPSMusic]

I believe that was my first MMO as well, Artix games sure was different back then. It felt magical as a kid going to the computer lab to sit with friends and end up in the same game together fighting monsters and doing quests.

[@ficshl6036]

@@KUPSMusic exactly, i miss that feeling, being able to play AQW with friends grinding for VHL and NSoD lul

[@damienholland8103]

I had that same feeling doing Everquest a long time ago. I felt part of the game. I don't think any modern MMORPG captures that.

[@sasuke921231]

omg you brought a core memory ;-;

[@The0ne777]

Yea artix is washed up now. Literally pissed off his fanbase repeatedly. Started doing a lot of stuff with youtubers ingame and that also was a bad idea. If the game would have succeeded My account would be worth more then all. They literally after years brought the game out of Beta due to me having a public argument with their #1 endorsed youtuber. Which of course you know did nothing coming out of Beta. Last i checked it had like 600 people playing at one time total. I think we need more mentally healthy people in the industry.

[@Roshiyoshiiii657]

Bro all i can say is i fucking FEEL YOU. Been saying this for years bro MMOs have actually been getting worse instead of better and all i can say is HOW???

[@MyUniqueVibe]

I'm still addicted to Runescape, lol, and I've been playing since 2007. You never forget your first Mmorpg. And no other MMO has ever been able to scratch the same itch RS gives me, the multi-tasking and afkability. I'm basically maining RS while I play single-player games on the side, including Gachas. Old School Runescape is also the only game I know where updates are polled and have to pass a 70% voting threshold to get implemented.

[@TheOneTrueOfficialLordGod]

It sounds like you hit the same realization I did back when Peria Chronicles was canceled. Back then, I said Blue Protocol was gonna be my final destination for MMOs and I'm sticking to that gun. I still love the genre. There's just something magical of being able to explore a world with your own character and see other players doing the exact same thing in an adventure that never ends. But the ones we have now, are pretty much all we're ever going to have and any one of them could shut down at any moment if they have a dry spell of profits. Maybe one day we'll have a new mainstay in the genre but I don't see it happening soon. Obviously, that means I have to do it myself. I, God, will save us!

[@EF-fc4du]

Can't imagine getting seriously into one again. These days, I want games to tell me good stories. MMOs never did that well.

[@JoshuaVonNoctis]

I wonder if this is the great rock bottom moment of the MMO genre before a giant MMO just pops out of nowhere.

[@patgray5402]

I think VR will have to become mainstream to be able to do that.

[@Ineri-YT]

Nice copium man.

[@JoshuaVonNoctis]

@@patgray5402 It would probably be a slow roll then, but I'm willing to wait.

[@SimulDatCor]

@@patgray5402give it 20-30 years before full immersion VR is invented and we can all become our own Kirito in SAO

[@encouraginglyauthentic43]

That's what tends to happen with a lot of things. Things get stagnant, and someone comes to shake things up.

[@romulocarneiro3310]

Blue Protocol was the end for me, i was very hyped about the game, but it got infinity delayed, launched only in japan, banned everyone who tried to enter from outside and never got out. Then, i finally realized, it felt like i was hit with a rock, that the era of anime mmorpgs truly died, 10 years later it was, incredible, however, time changes, letting everything on the past, a time, that we can only remember as flowers of a beatiful past. And here i'm, lost, whitout any kind of passion, for life, for gaming, living empty waiting for something to bring life and color back to my grey vision. Even myself, if there was any, i can't find anymore.

[@Nomans_Nomen]

You have to plant the seeds, if you want the fruit, amigo.

[@FirulaBIT]

All of these companies want their own MMO (their own WOW or FFXIV) to farm, but don't want to put on the same effort of these classic successful ones. Its all about announcing an MMO, farm players on it, if it has enough interest they release it incomplete and if it handles to capitalize enough, MAYBE then it will be fixed and get more content. But it doesn't matter how incomplete the game is, it will always launch with a gacha system and/or a store that uses real money

[@Josh-99]

This is what happens when you lead into a game development project with monetization as the primary consideration. Old MMOs were works of art and labors of love. Gameplay came first, and the assumption was that if you made a good game it would sell copies and subs and would just live forever. And they have -- all those old MMOs you mentioned are still around and still have thriving communities. They don't all have millions of players, but they are doing well enough to make a profit and support ongoing development. But now the wagon is leading the horse. It used to be that the designers and developers drove the game projects, but now it's the bean counters and the executive boards -- people who aren't experts in game development but instead are focused on profit and nothing else. Look at all the games that are consuming news cycles these days: Elden Ring, Baldur's Gate 3, Helldivers, etc.: they are all works of art that clearly put the experience of the game before monetization. Hell, you CAN'T even spend more money on Baldur's Gate 3 beyond a "collector's edition" that has a very modest markup and it not only consumed the gaming news cycle for an entire YEAR but also made a boatload of money. You cannot make good money with a terrible game, but the bean counters and the executive boards do not understand that -- and they never will.

[@trawll8659]

MMO's don't offer more than a chatroom with a game attached, back in the day that was new, these days every game can implement a chatroom with the right setup. The next MMO boom will likely come about when VR makes a breakthrough with locomotion, most notably with an affordable walking/movement platform like a 'VR treadmill'.

[@Thakkii]

i feel like this is what will happen too , the next big thing will be a legit VR MMO , but VR is still in that niche period i feel like it.

[@Arrow333]

In addition to that, we have apps like discord so we don't need to log in to any game in order to have a chatroom - or voice - with like minded players. That novelty this genre once had is gone, and with this stripped away the actual gameplay isn't always that convincing anymore. I still enjoy how GW2 manages to make random groups of players work together in dynamic events (which is something games like helldivers 2 also provide in a different way) or roleplaying in ESO with a group of friends (which is more an accomplishment of this group of friends than the game; and something that is moving towards VTTRPGs for me). MMORPGs coming back will indeed most likely require a new novelty added to the game - I am not even convinced VR is enough, since that is something other genres would benefit from as well. Maybe combined with AI generated content in a high quality, truly dynamically reacting to player actions allowing us to shape the virtual world.... Without ending up being pretty dull and directionless. Sounds like a contradiction already, and that's why all games that promised something along the lines failed at delivirering that experience.

[@Bael536]

probably not even that because I can barely use VR headset longer than 2 hours and I will get headache from motion sick. mmo take a lot of time so a VR mmo will make player feel like they are exercise in an extreme way but give them motion sick instead. it is dead

[@trawll8659]

@@Bael536 motion sickness in VR has come a long way, the amount of people that spend hours in VRChat alone tells me it is less of a problem than you think it is. I haven't gotten any motion sickness from VR myself and my only issue is battery life on my Quest and standing in spot for a long time makes my knees sore so a walking platform/treadmill with a charge cable would sort that out for me.

[@zealgaming8161]

@@trawll8659 I just keep my quest plugged into the socket at all times. Only use it while lying in bed to play pancake games with PCVR.

[@itemtest1]

The moment someone makes one super successful MMORPG, everyone else will start doing the same. This happened with every other genre like MOBA, Battle Royale, Gacha, etc. But those companies are extremely afraid to try it because they think they'd fail and lose money🤔🤔

[@babycake2941]

me too my guy, me too. all this micro transaction, cheap game play, etc. i'm tired of trying every mmo that comes out and ended up being disappointed. :(

[@MMOByte]

Yup. It'll be a while before we get something good again..

[@darkness_120]

yhh like Asmon said, it's too expensive to make MMOs these days, and they all lack the vision that MMOs used to have back in the day in my opinion... So companies fill the game with all these microtransactions garbage that noone likes, because they need to make their investment back at any cost

[@sophiacristina]

I think gaming in general changed to something like that. But MMO have too many ways to implement the worse of the modern game problems...

[@pedzod1761]

The problem is too much MMO games these day that player base are not enough to be MMO anymore.

[@FlamespeedyAMV]

yep too many, most that aren't very good and the population has been split and now no game is an MMO

[@cfireTv1112]

Yeah Ive noticed mmo news channels have been changing due to the lack of MMOs, I got my PC too late 😭

[@Nighscreach]

People play mmos only with guides, or guides play mmos for you.

[@Beamin439]

people do that with every genre.

[@shalomsims7270]

RIP Archeage btw. Great times from 2011-2016. But what I think is that it is expensive to create and maintain a traditional MMO type game and make enough money from it to be worth it. I mean that from a company standpoint. That's why mobile mmo-type games with overpriced waifu gacha systems work. Because it's cheaper for mobile and they can actually make a profit. When mmos were highly popular in the early 2010s, people were satisfied enough to spend in-game currency on games like Crystal Saga(an 2.5D online mmo). Also, the original biggest fans of these mmos you are talking about are older now. Married with kids and not as much time as they had before. shrinking the market for mmo players and less money for game devs and corporations. These are just my thoughts an opinions. Could be way more going on but I'm pretty sure it's just because of money. Even Archeage. The original downfall of the game was the monetization and in-game purchases. Company was trying to make money. Whether they were being greedy or just trying to pay back their investors is another story idk anything about though. but it's money nonethelss.

[@CrypticSnow]

The cost of living is high, therefore people have to work longer, smarter or harder to live. No ones got time anymore. Won't matter how good a game is if there's no player base to fund its monetization method. Any mmo now with a decades worth of content is probably the only thing worth investing time into, since no one's has to really wait.

[@AWanderingSwordsman]

I don't follow. You say they don't have time to play a game as long as an MMO, but they DO somehow have time to play an older MMO with an entire decade worth of content to catch up on. Wouldn't limited time mean it's easier to jump in on a new game that doesn't have several hundred hours of content?

[@CrypticSnow]

​@@AWanderingSwordsman My comment was in regards to the wealth of content in relation to how much time you could spend on it. Say you have 1-2 hours of gaming time. Would you want to reach end game in a day, or a month? I'm the 100% a game kind of guy. I want to see what the entire game has to offer. Not reach the end and then move on to something new and do it all over again. Games with a lot of content are a lot less boring to explore and worth my limited time.

[@oldoggydog73]

I know this is an old video and this comment will not be relevant at all, but it comes from the bottom of my heart. MMOs used to be my favourite type of game, I played GW1 for about 3k hours, GW2 for another 2k hours, but since then... NOTHING has grabbed me, at all, every game seems pointless, just running around with no goal, no deep story nor characters to get attached to, nothing. Man, do I miss the good old days when guilds mattered, you know? When you logged in, you'd say hello, and everyone else in the guild would respond, and then suddenly the conversation would start... there's nothing like that anymore, and there's no game that makes me want to build something like that either... times have changed, games have changed, and I think we, the MMO players, are sadly going to be left without anything interesting to play. Good luck to you all

[@damxn7303]

It could come back easy….

[@crumblingsanity6455]

I think the biggest problem with MMO's now is the fact that it's lost that feeling of being a "second home" for players now. For people who didn't have the best social lives that would often come home from a terrible school/work week, you could come home, load up your favorite MMO and you would essentially be living a whole other life aside from your current one, you made good friends, went on adventures together just spending hours conversating, questing, communities were a lot more helpful and would sometimes start their own sorts of events to have everyone familiarize themselves with each other and GM's etc. those were good times, but now? MMO's are just dead projects that nobody cares about, especially the newer generation, with better games out these days (and I say that very loosely) and the attention spans just not being there, there isn't much reason for anyone to stick around a game where you just sit and do the same repetitive task of just sitting there doing pointless fetch quest, having to farm for hours on end just to probably get one item and the very slow nature of these games just isn't sitting well with anyone, add on to the fact that now you have the additional barrier of pay-to-win with the microtransactions having to keep up with the meta and having the best gear to even make some progress is just disgusting, and I can see why just nobody cares anymore, cause the companies surely don't. It does hurt to see MMO's go down the drain like this, but as they as, things change and sometimes not for the better.

[@genshinfinity]

I think Twitter/X and other social media "trained" some players to be toxic on MMO chats as well. This has turned off new players who want to try MMOs. I could be wrong though. I am just basing this on the comments I read.

[@Beamin439]

thats the fun of mmos the top genres are shooters and mobas. toxicity is definitely not the issue.

[@abaddon1503]

Nah, toxicity on games with voice chat isn’t a new thing. CoD lobbies were/are still known for it. I think the real killing blow for MMOs is gacha games. Why make a 10 hour 3D RPG with servers that are designed to last a long time with new content for console and PC when you can make the most uncreative and bland turn based slop solely for phones completely for free and STILL come out with like $20M because people love PNGs on a screen? It’s free money for companies and they like easy wins.

[@Beamin439]

@@abaddon1503 literally all the top games are toxic. its not the toxic tryhard communities that ruin games. its the snowflake casuals that kill games.

[@k4g7]

devs need to realize that mmos are the genre of games where you just cant half ass them. every component of an mmo has to have a solid foundation for it to work. but all we get is lack luster effort. "generic" titles and...lack of passion. yea its times like this where i appreciate ffxiv even more BUT GODAM would it be nice to have something new to play. and that league mmo situation disappointed me the most. i might be dead by the time it comes out. im just being dramatic.. but yea this genre is not in a good spot right now.

[@Short_Motivation_GX]

This is true! I've been watching videos like yours every now and then for years to see if anything new has come out of games where you can just play something new because you just need a break from playing the same old games again and again... but no, nothing good things are coming out... I've tested Tower of Fantasy and PSO a little, but they don't last me long at all... It's just sad that there are no more good games coming out and I always end up playing old games like WOW or SWTOR or Guild Wars 2 have to go back in order to be able to play anything worth it. Its just sad as an gamer who love to explore new worlds and so on...i hope it will change even if the chancec are not that high😅

[@DOGHEIST]

ashes of creation has been in development since 2016 and it looks absolutely stunning. bought the founders pack back when it was just a kickstarter and it's insane how far it's come. definitely one to keep an eye on

[@isidornimages]

Sad indeed. It's kinda depressing.

[@MMOByte]

Yup. Which is why I've been playing Gacha games. At least new ones come out each month.

[@rept7]

I desperately just want to play a social PvE game with fun group content, action combat, and without build metas ruining the fun. You know what game I have to look forward to in hopes it provides? Monster Hunter Wilds of all things. The genre is in a terrible place.

[@TheTattorack]

The problem with MMOs, at least to me, is that they're just not good games. I was sold on the IDEA of MMOs over a decade ago, and I follow you, MMOByte, because I'm still sold on the idea of MMOs. I'm still hoping to find an MMO that I'll enjoy playing. But the MMOs I've played so far never kept my attention because compared to any other game that I can play (such as Skyrim, or Divinity Original Sin 2, or Mass Effect, or X4) they're simply just boring and bad games. Worse yet, most of them feel like they're designed to frustrate me into paying my way to content that is at least marginally enjoyable. I'm subscribed to Humble Monthly. I get new fun games to play every month. There's no reason, then, to waste my time on something I don't enjoy.

[@rubbermyducky5998]

This is my biggest problem with mmos. I've tried and tried to get into them but most of the "good" ones are just clicking on enemies and letting your character auto attack. That is painfully boring to me. I want a mmo with a dark souls style gameplay.

[@dallinjc3]

This is the problem. The gameplay of MMORPGs is just literally the worst and most boring type of game you could play. Combat is often slow and unengaging. I hate rotation-based combat and classes. I don't wanna memorize the programmed proper way to play, I wanna have a play style that feels like my own. I want better customization and combat that actually feels skill-based. I'm so tired of boring point/click tab target auto attack combat. Who's idea was it in the first place that this was fun to play?? Anyone who actually enjoys that must be old enough that they grew up in a time where there was nothing better to play. These days kids have a ton of better options.

[@Seraphyx]

i don't envy the position you're in, i've felt like there hasn't been any significant, promising, big mmo news in maybe close to a decade. i couldn't imagine having a channel almost entirely dedicated towards covering mmos and trying to find things to talk about and show regularly. i feel like it always ends up being the same few mmos you always mention as far as recommendations. anyway, sometimes i wonder if maybe i've just played too many mmos myself and am jaded or burnt out on the genre or if they genuinely just suck. because even if i go back to try out the old ones, like ffxiv or eso or swtor they're cool but still dont keep me engaged. i went back to black desert recently and i had a lot of fun with it. but the lack of, and terrible, pve content currently present i think is the main reason i have no drive to continue playing it.

[@IRedpunk]

I believe the best thing to do is switch to a MOBA or game that has Online and RPGs features without branding itself MMORPG. The genre is definitely an old relic and too many studios who tried to be the next WoW clone instead of their own thing failed, lost a lot of money and never wanted to try again. MMORPGs are also very costly to create (even a shitty one), so that's another barrier.

[@Xerzene]

I don't agree with making MOBA instead since ppl only play LoL and not the others (maybe Dota 2 and that's it) but I agree w the rest. They take so long to make and money to maintain while having a really high chance of being a flop. The future of MMO games I think is making games with mechanics common in this type of games and that's it, like having the option of going into missions with other players and a hub to interact and that's it (like Monster Hunter) since dat doesn't take much money to keep alive

[@Fegisen]

Feels like the developers are destroying the mmorpg genre themselves :P since they are intruding the games with pay 2 win mechanics and stuff.

[@blamcheese]

Gamers gulp it up and defend it thats why

[@ehyzen]

not rly devs but probably the big-ups. i guarantee you no dev wants to see their game fail

[@S4NlTYS]

when ever i think about mmos nowadays i always think back to my favourite and get even sadder, Wildstar and how great it could be this far along

[@zealgaming8161]

Gachas has been the new MMO's for many years now. What you can expect realistically is more gachas with more multiplayer functionalities. It's far easier to design a single player open world, and keep the multiplayer to lobby/instanced game play.

[@ryanisright3559]

What’s a good one?

[@AWanderingSwordsman]

@@ryanisright3559 Lol. Good and gacha game, pick one.

[@hesoyam881]

90% of all Gacha games are trash. People only play it for that rush of dopamine when you gamble and hit the jackpot, but any sense of achievement is just flushed down the drain on your first pull. The remaining 10% of Gacha games at least have the decency to add storyline/decent gameplay

[@gokhanj.yenigun7933]

I think the biggest problem is that many MMO players spend long hours playing game. No matter how good is that game, if one spends several hours a day playing a game, it eventually becomes boring. So, instead of reducing play time to do other things which would give them a break to miss the game, they jump into a different game, consume it until they get bored, and repeat the cycle. Consequently, many games become under-populated, and as a result, the developers see no value in keeping the game up and running as it is no longer financially viable for them.

[@gerardo_t2]

Great, can we now finally all agree the final nail has been put into this genre's coffin and move on plz, we've been waiting too long for the next great mmo, it's not happening guys...

[@diredevil1]

Seeing people saying that Blue protocol is biggest disappointment says a lot how low the standard is.

[@traviscue2099]

We had this exact same thin with the horror genre.. Then indie devs took up the mantle! Indie devs will do the same with mmos.. You're going to see in the next few year 2d, or low budget mmos.. The genre will come back its a question of when

[@Ted_Kenzoku]

except mmos need massive funds to exist, from the always online big servers to the frequent updates. it's s not feasable on low budget unlike horror games that's offline and just a few hundred megabytes

[@traviscue2099]

@@Ted_Kenzoku the private server scene is definitely a good example of small indie teams. Sure most are working with products that started with 50 people teams.. but that scene is alive and well.

[@yummychips_]

@@traviscue2099 Private servers basically just copy pasta what was already made. They have no development cost. Private servers are not any better either, as many of them become profit driven eventually. Sure they add updates, new mechanics and code, but they will shill expensive ass bundles and packages as "donation rewards". I would not consider private servers a good example of a small indie team. Some start off as genuine love letters to dead games, but they all become monstrous p2w shells of what they use to be. It gets worst if the server host gets popular too, they will implement all kinds of paid services and mechanics, far worst than the actual game did originally.

[@HalIOfFamer]

​@@Ted_Kenzokuno they don't, it's just what we expect because only big corpos do MMOs right now, but I consider a game like rust to be an MMO. Even tho servers are only 250 people there is always plenty to do. Now imagine a game like rust, with hundreds of smaller, partly community ran servers with say 500 people per server and a game where a guild is up to 20 people, but late game content requires at least 100. Now you have small groups running around competing and running deals and pacts to group up to kill a world boss. Rust was an indie game that grew into a solid AA experience. I suspect indie MMOs will be similar.

[@icyliu1.4]

For me, MMO's are just uninteresting, boring and stressing much especially mobile MMO's that has just bad gameplay (especially the UI oh my god)

[@mohamedti1]

Could you do an interview with one of these key devs that have moved genres? I think the MMO story has some interesting journalistic content opportunities. Also, I want to make a game. What is the key thing that makes MMOs not work anymore? Is it a culture shift?

[@MMOByte]

Sure, I have plenty of contacts. What game(s) were you thinking?

[@mohamedti1]

@@MMOByte I want to focus on the most satisfying movement, do you have a favorite game in that aspect?

[@YukiNa790]

problem with MMOs really is that its time consuming and in the current state of living, theres barely any time to play them since MMOs are grind intensive and most of the time, those grinds dont even feel rewarding anymore. aside from that. MMOs are still a social game. some even feel the game is slow paced. There's a market for MMO they're just lazy to make one worth while, probably because of inflation since there's probably not gonna be a lot of profit over it. And they cant make cashed equipment anymore because of certain laws.

[@nenadarkpaw]

Yeah, its insane dude. The fact that I'm still playing WoW after all these years is insane. The fact that companies can't even get out a simple WoW or trinity style dungeon-game that isn't P2W or broken is insane. The fact that everything in development minus maybe that Riot-game is just gonna be P2W garbo is insane. The fact that someone haven't at least attempted like a WoW clone with a sub fee ala FFXIV in the last 12 years is insane. It's just exhausting and heart breaking to follow this genre at this point. This should be the genre everyone's talking about considering how online centric everything is these days, yet it's now some old niche that only people who grew up with them cares about apparently. It's effin bizarre and sad

[@LeviAckerman-lb3zr]

GOODBYE BLUE PROTOCOL. I don’t even have the opportunity to play I have been looking forward this game it’s just so sad.

[@Tybal65]

It is dead yes and I've moved onto playing games of other genres. Not that I don't want to play an MMO but none of them is really trying to deliver a good game so I'm done.

[@shatteredsentient5321]

Truer words have never been spoken

[@spankyjeffro5320]

Incorrect. You just don't like them.

[@Legchuck]

i think its also just getting older , the games are not designed well imo , they take too much of your time and theres only so many times you can kill the same creatures and get some purple glowing swords before it gets old. same things with mounts , pets etc.

[@tyrannyrains5341]

game companies should release Globally instead of locally first. when they only release in korea everyone overseas sees the flaws of the game an become uninterested by the time its released in the west effectively killing whatever hype they try to build. these game companies have to realize the mmo market is a global genre now. moonlight blade mobile is actually a great game. just lacks population.

[@woozie_tv]

Over monetization of the gaming industry is what's coming back to bite these companies in the ass. I feel it's that simple. They no longer want to release quality projects that are consumer friendly. So most of us jump into the f2p portion get our rocks off and keep it moving. Gacha games will hit the same wall i think. But waifu lovers are also easily amused and distracted so I could be wrong there lol.

[@spankyjeffro5320]

Incorrect. Gamers are killing the industry with their cheapness. Guess what, games need money to survive. If you cheapskate filth won't pay for anything, the games you like are going to die. You don't want "consumer-friendly" games, you want FREE games. You are a cheapskate. You are the problem.

[@yanami1241]

Greed, Pay to Win, Mobile and toxic players killed the genre.

[@yangwei3647]

So who is gonna sustain the company for keeping the game updated and alive if nobody wants to pay? you?

[@ShortLifeHax]

*I tried Throne and liberty I stopped after 30 minutes. I'm glad I realized it's time to retire from MMOs, I got better things to do than commit to another korean floptastic game, gachas and mobas are more fulfilling now, mobas are quick the grind is quick and the endgame is quick. Good for the attention span these days*

[@Hello-id8mf]

I see soo much potential in mmo. Like this genre can touch top notch anime level design. Hope someone pushes the boundaries

[@ryukirito2616]

You’re right! This is why I don’t play MMOs anymore

[@MMOByte]

What do you play?

[@ryukirito2616]

@@MMOByte Some Eldin Ring getting ready for the DLC. I also found a cool tactics game on switch that I played the demo on and will come out next week I think. I was going to buy hellblade 2, but apparently it’s trash. The crab game on Xbox game pass that’s a “souls like” game. It’s pretty good! I think you’d enjoy it. Asmond played it recently on stream, but I found it before he did.

[@SAM-wz3hb]

@@MMOByte gacha

[@typhvam5107]

MMO's have been dead since around 2011. People have been seeking alternatives ever since, this is hardly a new feeling. Its odd to see this video in 2024. The main thing is that for at least until 2018 there was still a huge amount of momentum pushing the corpse forward based off the success, history, social connections, and habits of players, keeping a false market alive. The truth is simple, until WoW, GW2 and FFXIV gets shut down and dead, there is no room for new mmo's. MMO's more than any game depend on huge adoption, because they are social in nature, and while people can still log into their WoW game filled with nostalgia, and where everyone else is, there simply no chance for a new game to compete, there wont be enough players to kick start it. Its a dead market. You might have 4-8 million players, but you cannot capture them, because people do not have time to play 2 mmos at once. Also design for mmos, what made them great, is dead. Its all about accessibility, convenience, ease of use, console compatibility, cross play, 'shards' etc, those things make the genre bad. If you can play an mmo solo, its not an mmo. and mmo needs the creation of social networks, needs the creation of guilds, groups, needs player reputation to matter. Players need to be forced to band up and group or fail, because, its a social game first and foremost. And that just isn't something modern design wants, and thus, its impossible to make a good mmo with current design ideas. Scale is what matters in mmos. A simple, great example is WoW, what killed WoW: Flying mounts: world pvp died, as did travel time, and need for safety in numbers. Teleport to dungeon queue system, same reason as flying mounts. It made the world tiny, it killed the areas, it killed conflict, it stopped being an mmo. Its funny because this was the main complaint with D&DO and why it failed to take players away from WoW: It was all instanced. No open world. By giving flying mounts and teleports to dungeons and make professions useless due to bad item scaling and not forcing consumables to be needed in dungeons/raids, you killed the world, and thus effectively made it an instanced game. Instanced games suck. Using real life as an example, in the past life was hard, surivving alone was impossible, because of this people made communities. An average person had 20-30 friends minimum, plus 100 more known people they kept good relations with, they maintained a good reputation by behaving well, by being useful, by being 'good'. With modern convenience, most of us dont need anyone else to live, we can order food, we can stay home all day for all entertainment and purpose, work from home as well. We are isolated, life is easy, comfortable, and thus we dont need anyone else. Now the average person has 2-3 close friends, and thats going down. So to sum it up: 1 - zombie mmo's prevent players from leaving them for new ones, making success very hard for a new mmo to succeed the critical 1-2 first years. 2 - modern design focusing on ease of use, accessibility, solo play, low time investment, makes mmos bad, and not worth playing. there is no challenge, and there is no real need for a community. Until those 2 are resolved, mmorpg is a dead genre.

[@shadowhellzx]

Sounds like making crossplay mmos with mobile is bad

[@MMOByte]

Not always. It CAN be done. People just refuse to do it the right way.

[@dyrothobee]

Albion is a good example of a crossplay MMO. They are forced to make more servers just to accommodate all the players

[@acolyte1951]

For a non-mmo player, what makes MMOs fun? Do they have good gameplay? A living story/world?

[@patrickcarter2829]

From my observation, I think it's the sense of community: having a large group of people work together and have a fun time to achieve something. The closest games to this in recent years are Helldivers 2 and Monster Hunter (World/Rise). And neither of those are classed as an MMO.

[@Ted_Kenzoku]

it's that the world is full of other players and not just npcs. be it during fights, just looking at sceneries or the economy system of the game, there's always other players there making the world feel alive, like a community. but that hardly exists anymore. even in the few mmos that still exist, players just play solo now and don't bother talking to other players at all

[@gamechanger6436]

I've been jumping between FFXIV and WoW for years. Once a year I level up a seasonal character in BDO and that's it. Every now and then i try to jump into a new mmo and get disappointed really fast. Oh boy i love mmorpgs, but there are just no good alternatives.

[@christunstel6954]

Guild Wars 2 shits on those games

[@Mistersirnation]

Guild Wars 2 is boring imo, at least more than BDO

[@christunstel6954]

@@Mistersirnation L take

[@felldoh9271]

Horizon XI (custom Final Fantasy XI server).

[@felldoh9271]

Or, reliving the glory days (2006 era which Horizon XI is time locked in) of FFXI on retail isn’t actually that difficult if you find a few other people to regularly play with during this current surge of new players from FF XIV. Horizon’s current “classic” niche doesn’t even really need horizon to exist as anyone can simply not do rhapsodies of vanadiel missions, level synch down, keep their leveling mode on merit mode, and so on.

[@Darkmattermonkey77]

Honestly, as someone who’s been playing games since the Atari 2600 was brand new, then I’ve played almost every type of console and pc game to date, it’s because the genre stopped evolving. I’ve loved watching the evolution of games from Pong to final fantasy 16. I’ve lived years in arcade’s growing up and have been fascinated by seeing how games have become more and more realistic. Then the industry stopped pushing boundaries. I was furious at Minecraft when it came out, because it’s going backwards in graphics and development. Instead of moving on into fully immersive and hyper realistic games, we are returning to low graphic side scrolling games?? The genre has stopped moving forward and is even going backwards, in attempts to capture some form of nostalgia player base. We are at the edge of technology and advancement, historically, we either make the leap into the next stage of gaming.. or fall backwards into retro, already fully explored platforms. As it seems now, they’re just making carbon copies of games from 10 years ago and/or remaking old games with barely updated graphics. That’s the problem I see.

[@nenadarkpaw]

I think the genre is just dead at this point and I don't think it's because companies think its too difficult to make them or whatever, but they've realized today's gamers aren't really into that MMO mindset of grinding PVE content for hours every day. That's why they're rebranding all these games you mentioned. "MMOs" going forward are going to GTA Online or Elden Ring or Monster Hunter or Animal Crossing, like standard games first and then a multiplayer mode on top of that. This 200 hours to the good stuff thing a lot of MMOs got going for them just isn't flying anymore. There's just way too much competition elsewhere on the internet these days. Social Media, Twitch, Tik Tok, KZbin, mobile games, F2P games etc. You cannot compete with that shit as a slow burning MMO anymore

[@CodaWasTaken]

I feel like a big part of the problem also is just so many games outside of just MMOs have been trying to make everything live service and seasonal type content so it becomes even more draining as the player to feel almost forced to commit to a handful of games if they want to experience everything they can or risk the constant FOMO that's becoming more and more prevalent in the industry in general. It really sucks having so many games run off of seasonal content and limited events that it becomes stressful at times and more of a chore to just say you got it done.

[@AlucardXIX]

Thank you for calling the AI over use abominations of games. I hope studios catch on to the fact that people aren't as stupid as they think and won't stand for these soulless, money hungry efforts to pump out content for people.

[@Xialoh]

Trying to use primitive AI is a bad idea. Using AI in the near future? I'm kind of counting on it myself. I feel like the people against AI content are either content creators concerned about the loss of their jobs (fair), or not paying any attention to current progress in that area. Again, I assume that whatever was mentioned in this video is indeed shit though. I just disagree with the idea of dismissing AI content in general.

[@AlucardXIX]

@@Xialoh AI will never be able to create something wholly original and with any kind of actual human emotion, even if AGI becomes a thing. People gravitate to art for many reasons including the emotion. AI just cannot have emotion the way a human does, and that's something people really need to accept, but most won't because all they see is money signs.

[@Xialoh]

@@AlucardXIX Not even if AGI becomes a thing? And you base this claim on...what? That aside, AI doesn't need to be able to create anything wholly original. It can be entirely derivative and still come up with interesting ways to drive endless content in a manner far more entertaining than any side quest anyone's seen outside of a CDProjekt Red game. I've already heard AI sounding perfectly human with human emotion. Just the simple fact of being able to converse with NPCs convincingly playing a role will pretty much be revolutionary for anyone that enjoys RPGs. I see from your channel that you're a musician, so understandably you're going to be firmly against AI by default. Artists or people that "create" pretty much anything are trending towards despising AI. I get that, but I'm also not a creator, and so I'm mostly seeing potential. I also see the problems coming, but the fact that AI might not be "original" isn't something I find concerning. Worst case scenario, you still need a few humans to present a unique world and story to the AI, leaving it to expand on a premise. I'm not convinced that that will remain necessary with AGI (and especially not ASI), but if it does, that's fine. If all AI does is speed development exponentially, that's still huge for MMOs right along with everything else.

[@madelinebitts2766]

​@@Xialoh I think that you don't understand that people don't want "endless content" what trash schlock. People appreciate hand-crafted, original experiences. The reason MMOs keep failing is because they're derivative money-grubbing "content". Automating that won't make it any more appealing.

[@Xialoh]

@@madelinebitts2766 tl;dr - you're a bit shortsighted. No one would be stupid enough to advocate for endless content along the lines of Assassin's Creed's repetitive quests. A truly AI driven game of the sort I'm talking about has never been made, because it couldn't be, because the AI isn't there yet, and so it wouldn't be meaningfully "derivative". Speaking as someone that first played an MMO in 2006, I can tell you I don't care about whether or not the content is "handcrafted". I care that the content is entertaining - it doesn't matter if a human did it. I'm not there for the purpose of appreciating someone's fine art. That may be what happens, but that's not my objective. My objective is to be entertained. Endless, entertaining content is exactly what I want, and if you've ever played an MMO and heard people whining about a lack of content to the point that they drop their subscription waiting for the next patch, you'd know it's what most people want. Among other things, of course. Getting back to handcrafted content...when you go up to an NPC in a generic RPG and use your interaction key, it will eventually just spit back at you the same line over and over again, because you've already exhausted all of the dialogue options the writers came up with that made it into the game. That's handcrafted, and handcrafted is very limited. With AI, an NPC may be assigned a background and personality, an AI generated voice, and you could see a random unplanned NPC come to life like you've never seen in any game before. With that being said, AI may or may not be to that level yet. I'm not advocating for the implementation of garbage, soulless AI as a total replacement for human writers and designers in its current state, but I'm looking at the long game. Out of nowhere in 2022, we got chatbots that can interact in text like college professors. I expect that eventually, they'll learn to train these things to not sound so methodical, and to be able to play a role effectively. Other AI training will bring the ability for NPCs to flawlessly handle pathing in a game world, and systems may be implemented that allow an AI to dynamically create unplanned content that has real impact. Think Guild War's 2's dynamic events. Or the random events in Red Dead Redemption 2. This is just the next step. Naturally encountered content with endless possibilities and choices. Scale that to an MMO, with dynamic large scale events that alter entire areas of the game world, and introduces new characters that can live or die based on how players handle things. Characters that you can literally have a discussion with in-character using your own ideas. That wouldn't be derivative. I haven't seen such a game. I suspect that the problem here and in many cases is that you and others aren't inclined to think past whatever you've already seen of AI. Just try thinking in terms of future potential for a moment. If you're some sort of content creator that's on a warpath to generate as much anti-AI sentiment as possible because your career is on the line...well, understandable. Won't change or stop what's coming though.

[@taitonumaivao9292]

I started back in 2014 and I was playing multiple MMOs until now. Today I kind of had a wave of sadness… I want to grind a new MMO but they just keep being taken away… I love the grind of MMOs and survival games and since I’ve completed and spent years on most of them… I just want that 1 new MMO to come out to satisfy me… It makes me really sad because I really do enjoy it.

[@Da-iken]

Just play great games like Persona 5 Royal (or Shin megami Tensei V) or Xenoblade... much better invested time. The feeling is identic, but way better (no match). No boring stuff with poor gameplay over and over again. You see different things, experience a new story with every game.

[@Sunartica33]

I will keep what I know to myself but let me tell you something I can say: When you see the QA teams behind certain MMO-type games.... you understand why it is doing poorly. the passion is not there.

[@dcry1003]

for me MMO hasnt really died more like evolved, leaving behind the old floor plan or building blocks of a classic MMO, tho that isnt to say that im not sad that theres less MMO's being made since i was a big fan of the genre, while everyone was playing MOBA, FPS or any social party games, i was out there playing gods war, 100 years war, eden eternal, flyf, wurm online, archage, onigiri, maple story, neosaurs, etc.

[@Heybhai2024]

What you think about once human

[@MrzStix]

I love it, my goal is to have him play it on release

[@DarckVGame]

The MMO´s genre are full of old players, the new players generation are playing a less dificult games and to many other old players with money and a busy life. The MMO genre are evolving but in other games and genre sadly.

[@turquoisesquirrel]

:(

[@MMOByte]

[@turquoisesquirrel]

​@@MMOByte❤😢

[@EnchantedSmellyWolf]

It is a good thing ESO was lucky and still going with ever expanding regions from our beloved Elder Scrolls Lore's.

[@jackjohnson8305]

Time to rebrand to GachaBytes bro.

[@MMOByte]

I have a Gacha channel! kzbin.info

[@11Condensation]

I think the root issue, is that there's less innovation in games these days. It's just hitting the MMO genre hardest, because of its nature and the timing with the rise of the money hungry loot box and cookie cutter dlc publishers. Less devs trying to do new things + more greedy publishers = a choke hold on the MMO genre that needs new things done, and that's already has a higher overhead. 😢

[@Ashcroft1313]

🎉😂

[@MMOByte]

:D

[@Ashcroft1313]

8:40 ​@@MMOByte😂

[@azraelknightquest5754]

I still think they should take big N64 and PS1/2 games that have big worlds and make them MMOs with limited number of players per map. Imagine meeting up with people to play around in mock wars of Zelda Ocarina of Time or fighting to survive in small teams trying to meet up in Resident Evil 1/2/3.

[@pigeonflip3649]

Unless you are swiping a credit card and or spending 10-12 hours a day playing then you can’t compete in most mmo.

[@TheSilverwolf97]

Truth is MMO's are a high risk high reward thing with a hefty initial investment required. Nowadays game studios figured out they can monetize to similar extents cheaper and safer games so why bother taking risks? The only ones making MMO's are small teams of passionate devs or scammers. We are at an all time low of devs taking risks on games and in that enviroment MMOs can't thrive.

[@rezenkron]

Nobody wants to compete with old mmos that have huge amount of content accumulated over decades because its too expensive now, sadly but true

[@rezenkron]

I play overwatch now btw bc it has funny interactions and nice gameplay which were my main reasons to play mmos

[@battlebots1]

@@rezenkron funny overwatch was my main game 2016-2019 and now gw2 is my main game 2022-present

[@VashTown]

Ball is in Riot's court. Probably going to drop it.