The Top 10 Custom Moves Smash Ultimate Should've Used

[@MockRockTalk]

Thanks to Star Trek: Fleet Command for sponsoring today's video! Go to strms.net/startrek_mockrocktalk to download Star Trek: Fleet Command. And thanks to you for watching. Custom Moves are one of the biggest missed opportunities to change Smash's formula we've ever seen imo, what were some other ones that should've been in Ultimate, or _definitely_ shouldn't have but you liked anyways? Also, one thing I forgot to mention: this video was limited to a single move per character as usual, some did have multiples I'd have considered otherwise. *Main channel:* kzbin.info *Twitter:* twitter.com/MrMockRock *Patreon:* www.patreon.com/mockrock *Twitch:* www.twitch.tv/mockrocktwitch *Teespring:* teespring.com/stores/mockrock

[@antant6217]

Reusing custom moves were such an easy way to add variety to echoes.

[@Spyder-Marth]

For sure

[@Starpotion]

Creating more echoes would have also been a great way to add variety to them 😒

[@DemoniteBL]

wwumble

[@MERCHIODOS]

I know. Dark Samus Assist Trophy in Smash 4 had unique moves and they all got thrown away when she became an echo fighter of Samus, she sould of kept her moves from Smash 4. At least modders made Dark Samus into a unique fighter by adding new moves from her Assist Trophy in Smash 4

[@DesignDoc]

I just wanna talk to whoever thought making the Custom Moves random and repeatable unlocks that you couldn't just buy in the in game shop was a good idea.

[@thesapphiremawile5180]

Probably the same guy who made this the system used to unlock over 100 power variations in Kid Icarus Uprising (Soccer Guy). 👀

[@jlewis4441]

​@@thesapphiremawile5180 Ah yes, my favorite developer: "Mashed a hero soccer guy"

[@adambombdiggidy]

Sounds like a design doc episode about random/loot style unlocking? I have a special hate for Monster Hunter 3: Ultimate especially

[@k96man]

"just want to talk to them"

[@kitsune6363]

​@@k96man Family Guy funny moments

[@darklion2704]

i still am scarred from palutena running around on stage with lightweight and super speed and jump glide and her other broken BS LOL

[@MockRockTalk]

Any of those things are probably okay in a vacuum (I'd still say Jump Glide is most okay), but altogether, yeah it was a lot lol

[@theenderkirby]

​@MockRockTalk just a small question would you prefer if her down b be her fire works move over the counter/reflector she have in ultimate or you think what she have now works?

[@MockRockTalk]

@@theenderkirby I'd be fine with the fireworks move tbh, the Counter/Reflect combo would've been a lot more distinctive in Smash 4 but in Ultimate it overlaps with multiple other characters

[@DrunkPanda239]

Oh god 😮

[@darklion2704]

@@DrunkPanda239 hey its oomf hiiii

[@HerMajestyVelvet]

When I can’t use the comically large pill on Doc D:

[@dreamlanderjoel8162]

Fentanyl

[@jstar3382]

​@@dreamlanderjoel8162that's an insta-kill move

[@Noobwitha_Hat]

Suppository

[@asierx7047]

Open up it's time for The Pill

[@castform7]

Hit your opponents with the *BLOOO*

[@Eclipsmon8421]

I will say something about Upper Cutter. In the Kirby franchise, one of the most iconic copy abilities is the Sword ability, and ever since Kirby's Return to Dreamland, performing the attack button and up (kind of like an up special in Smash by the way) makes Kirby perform a single upward strike while moving Kirby up. So if you took Upper Cutter, but changed the blade from the cutter ability with the Sword from the Sword ability, and you would get this much more useful move than final cutter, without sacrificing ANY of the faithfulness to the Kirby games.

[@HolyAlondite]

Honestly, I feel like that Kirby in general could stand to have a rework. Since I feel like you could include a lot more references while still maintaining his loosely 'tutorial-esque' character design of each move very obviously showing off the general idea of how the move type operates. Since the copy ability give all sorts of options that could be very fitting. (For example, just within up special, I'd argue that Sword, Fighter, and Beetle all have workable moves as reference options)

[@NessMotherBound]

Was about to comment this. Kirby in general needs an entire moveset overhaul. You could even have it so if he presses B again, he comes back down, just like Sword does in the Kirby games. The only thing it would lose then is the beam, but in Kirby and the Amazing Mirror, it also has the beam so... It really could just be the same but better

[@dprototype6431]

I really hope the next Smash game gives Kirby some new moves from the more recent games. I’m not saying his entire kit should be replaced with different mouthful modes, but it’d be really cool to see him have Staff or one of the upgraded abilities from Forgotten Land.

[@jonathanlgill]

@@HolyAlondite I think Kirby's Hammer is the worst offender. Not an awful inclusion in Melee, but ever since Brawl, there has been a whole Kirby character dedicated to hammer attacks. Kirby has a larger potential moveset than pretty much everyone in Smash, and it feels really mundane for him to have one of his special moves be a hammer. Sure, Hammer Kirby is fairly common in the Kirby series, but it's not a mainstay ability.

[@Printerpenguin]

You could even make it like climb hazard where you can optionally go back down (like how you can with sword in the Kirby games)

[@runningwithscissors8612]

All I’m saying is Mega Man’s custom moves would have mapped perfectly onto a Proto Man echo…

[@yoshitaxfraudosaurus]

Protoman doesn't have a copy ability. So that doesn't make sense

[@DrMasterAlex]

@@yoshitaxfraudosaurus i think mega man fans would be happier with an echo with some handwavey justification than the alternative of literally nothing lol

[@braian7488]

​@@yoshitaxfraudosaurusI'm pretty sure he can copy abilities in megaman 9 and 10 and he is usually shown having a fighting style similar to megaman so it wouldn't be too far fetched to just give him some of those custom moves.

[@Delta_064]

​@@braian7488Personally I think your moveset would be: Neutral B: Hyper Bomb Side B: Ice Slasher Up B: Beat Down B: Skull Barrier

[@DarkAura19]

​@yoshitaxfraudosaurus4270 Megaman 9, 10, Power Fighters and such would beg to differ. Also, it's Smash. Robin can't learn Nosferatsu as a tactician, Ness and Lucas can't use half of their PK attacks, etc if we're talking canon. It's fine.

[@benross9174]

Good thing they actually used a custom move into Ultimate: Hyper Monado Arts; which boost the effects (positive and negative) but nerfs how long each art is active. Sounds pretty familiar

[@HerMajestyVelvet]

I wanted Ultimate to bring back customs just so Puff could get her terrible ones back and I could troll my litte brother with a move called Wakey Wakey

[@develrandomdankmemes7586]

wakey wakey classic

[@SortaNonymous]

Don't forget Spinphony, one of the moves in Smash Bros. history

[@bungusbajablast2877]

jumping rest was really funny

[@YeethanFrog]

I think making bowsers spit out a fireball if you press the b button and then fire breath if you hold it would be pretty cool. Simply making it to where it changes depending on if you’re still holding the button when the startup animation ends would be the best way to do that imo

[@Esperazura]

One of Peach's custom special moves was her custom side-B: "Flower Bomber". If hit and not blocked, this move would inflict the opponent with the flower status ailment (similar to Lip's stick item). Daisy is an echo fighter to Peach with zero changes gameplay wise, and Daisy is heavily associated with flowers. Why they didn't make this Daisy's side-B to help differentiate her from Peach gameplay wise is completely baffling to me.

[@MockRockTalk]

That one actually made my shortlist, I just don't necessarily think poison effects are something I'd particularly associate with Daisy. If anything I'd want to give her back the explosion Peach used to make lol

[@Esperazura]

@@MockRockTalk fair enough, Daisy’s feisty personality would compliment an explosion Side B LOL

[@GmNdWtchr96]

Considering one of the few differences Daisy used to have was patched out. (Veggies) Her playing identically to Peach seems to unfortunately be the point.

[@pigeonleader]

I always felt thay Daisy should've had Peach's custom moves. I also thought Peach's Melee moveset should've been given to Daisy because in Melee Peach attacked with her head and used more kicks. It would've made Daisy stand out compared to Peach

[@kicksyo2171]

I do like the flower bomber and I do think that fits Daisy but personally, I would've gone with the Flying Bomber which is more explosive and is a little risky to throw out

[@lasercraft32]

Wanna know what's a crime? One of Mario Galaxy's core abilities is being able to SPIN. The Co-Star Luma has the ability to spin in Galaxy 2, Mario gains the ability to spin because of the Lumas, the Launch Stars get activated by spinning into them, and even in Super Mario 3D World Rosalina was given a unique spin attack... But you know how many moves Rosalina has that references the spin? Literally ONE. The Luma's rapid jab. No other move references it (she doesn't even spin during up special)!!! It would be PERFECT for the Guardian Luma down special animation to be a spin instead of whatever this is: 16:56 ! They could even make it a reflector to help her better combat projectiles, and to reference Mario's ability to knock back certain projectiles (i.e. those coconut things, and shells) in Mario Galaxy. (Although it is cool that Gravitational Pull references the Wiimote pointer...)

[@dddmemaybe]

So first off, Luma has a few fast spinning moves. Luma's nuetral-b, side-b and jab are all fast spins. "Rosalina's" moveset herself has slow spinning, like she's orbiting around something. Her up-b summons the classic spiral star launch pads and then the free fall is a wide perimeter spin. Her fair and forward tilt also have that slow, orbital animation. I think just "Rosalina's" neutral-b, nuetral jab, and nair being direct spin-hits is perfectly OK. Directional attacks would be harder to make the spin not look forced or awkward.

[@lasercraft32]

@@dddmemaybe When I say "Spin" I don't mean rotating in a circle... The spin is an actual move in Mario galaxy, with a distinct kind of motion and particle effect. So no, I don't think any of the examples you listed even remotely count. Rosalina doesn't even spin during her up special like the launch stars do in Mario Galaxy, she just kind of rocket jumps into the air... :/

[@FalcoVille]

Million dollar idea. Make Morton his own seperate echo fighter for Bowser Jr. and bring back Big Mechakoopa to use for his own moveset specifically. No other changes necessary. Big koopa, big walking robot. It fits him perfectly.

[@AkioBlancas]

YES

[@shanegiorgio4713]

Seeing as Morton is my favorite of the Koopalings, I second this.

[@goodhelmetjunior3399]

Morton is the default, but Roy, Ludwig, & Larry get to be his alts instead of Juniors.

[@Magic_Ice]

I don’t see any flaws with it, truly a character everyone will main

[@egon3705]

one other decloning effort (ANACHRONISM AHEAD) bowser jr's clown carless nair becomes the "wonder aura" which is basically mewtwo nair; morton and co. keep the hammer

[@lasercraft32]

Dark Samus being less zoner-focused and being a more close-range attacker would be AMAZING! XD

[@ManuelMendez-it8nt]

For Final Cutter, I'd say it would be really simple to implement If you tap up B, it comes up faster and doesn't have a second hit If you hold up b, it is the classic we all know

[@GoldGuard]

Or make it like Cloud's Up-B where the start is still buffed regardless but the second part only happens if you hit the button again.

[@dysr]

Just swap the cutter blade for his Sword ability and remove the projectile, and it becomes a strong reference to the modern Kirby series too.

[@ManuelMendez-it8nt]

@@GoldGuard Although I'd agree, the main reason why I wouldn't is that Cloud's Up B is, in my opinion, too good, and annoying. I'd rather make people have to make a choice between a fast OOS, or a second hit

[@paulakroy2635]

Kirby should not have any in-depth mechanics

[@ManuelMendez-it8nt]

@@paulakroy2635 I don't think that holding or tapping a button to get different results is really in-depth, rather I'd say its intuitive design

[@stixsis4656]

I feel like Palutena's custom specials could have worked perfectly for a Medusa Echo Fighter

[@Magic_Ice]

But medusa is massive

[@MfwPrivate]

So was ridley ​@@Magic_Ice

[@stixsis4656]

@@Magic_Ice Bowser, Ridley and King K. Rool were also massive in their respective games yet they're playable

[@Magic_Ice]

The difference between someone like Bowser or Ridley is that they’re height changed frequently between appearances and while they can be pretty big, in general they are about 3-4x as big as the protagonist and can fit on screen. Medusa is the size of a skyscraper.

[@julienherard414]

Medusa could change her size just Like Palutena could too

[@Moon-nk3co]

I’m very prepared to see Ganondorf more than once on this list since he basically was what MockRock always wanted in a character.

[@GmNdWtchr96]

Personally think Lucina and Dark Pit should have used some of their custom moves by default just for the sake of Luigi-fying them. Moreso for Luci than Pittoo. EDIT: Just finished the video. My idea was in the Honorable Mentions. Ignore it.

[@DAWGIESZ64]

I love how Miis still have them

[@Sjono]

Because they’re meant to customizable characters

[@Cadoe]

What kind of comment is this

[@CuteRedPanda64]

Brawler has 2 new moves.

[@DAWGIESZ64]

@@Cadoe a good one

[@bungusbajablast2877]

​@@CuteRedPanda64*4

[@insomniacnerd5592]

Smash 6 but a cut in half roster with actual cool move selects that aren’t ‘same move but strong and slow/same move but fast with no hitbox’ would go hard.

[@ViorbyX]

Echo fighters as alternative colors

[@SeisoYabai]

I dont love the idea of cutting the roster, but I know it has to happen, both for the health of the game and because of licensing having to be a nightmare

[@fr0stdr4ke95]

9:05 Idea. Make the fire ball the tap projectile. But holding the button gives the steady stream.

[@Driff97]

I know it was sort of an Honorable Mention but I still want Danger Wrap to replace Crash Bomb, because as faithful as Megaman's moveset is, I don't like how 3 of his 4 specials come from Mega Man 2.

[@pottedplant7460]

A few I remember liking quite a bit include Kirby’s Jumping Inhale, Fox's Twisting Fox and Charizard's Dragon Rush. Kirby’s Jumping Inhale was a fun take on Kirby’s Inhale, essentially giving it more range and acting as a mobility option while still giving him access to the Copy Abilities (which his other custom special, Ice Breath, straight up stops Kirby from using Copy Abilities ... why? Ice Breath lowkey one of the worst custom moves for that reason imo), at the cost of more endlag and removing the vacuum hitboxes, which I consider a fair trade. And then there's Twisting Fox, which is Octoslash without a sword.

[@Evan-mt7bc]

If you wanna see why Jumping Inhale would be a terrible idea look up Average Joe vs Poyo S@X 2015

[@Lmon_licker]

Custom moves were so cool, I think they were much better than spirits.

[@Nintendofan1389]

In all seriousness if we were talking about Kirby without smash 4 customs, GIVE HIM RISING BREAK (the fighter abilities uppercut move)

[@bitratebenny2856]

As someone who grew up on Smash 4 for 3DS, and spent hours upon hours trying out all the custom moves, this acknowledgement of their existence is such a little treat. Custom moves are such an unexplored niche in discussion due to the community apathy for them, and yet there is so much interesting stuff within them. From Pac-Man's custom fruits to Shulk's absurd custom Monado Arts, there's tons of potential content to explore.

[@bitratebenny2856]

@U.WON.T.gramMockRockTalk Oh heck yeah, let's go 😎

[@DarkAura19]

For Kirby, final cutter custom could actually work quite well if it was changed into Sword Kirby or Fighter Kirby's uppercut. Would justify the quick upward slash (even if sword does have a downward followup, but you can choose not to do it) but it could also work having a bit of a multihit effect. Fighter's version can even play into Kirby's primarily fighter-based moveset a lot better and could still be disjointed due to the big old energy effect. But let's be real. Kirby is likely the last character who will ever get big changes due to how insanely popular he is at a casual level. Ah well.

[@djdrizzy9139]

This is why a Smash reboot is needed. In fact, it's not just Kirby, other 64 characters haven't received huge changes either.

[@gwenpolo1307]

Kind of hope you eventually get to make your dream platform fighter in the future. You've got such a unique and well-balanced perspective on game design.

[@jesseburgener442]

The funny thing with Toon Link is that you could give him both the standard spin attack and the hurricane spin simply by making it based on how long it's held. You wouldn't even need to replace the move, and it could potentially be a great high risk high reward attack.

[@hideouswh5718]

Ganon actually gets the flying wizard's foot in Super smash flash 2, where it gives him his double jump back and a TON of movement options via ledge and platform canceling, making him super fun :)

[@Novum228]

Fun fact: Ganondorf in Super Smash Flash 2 has Wizard’s Dropkick. Unfortunately it sends him down when used in the air, but this was more likely a de-cloning measure.

[@matthewjones6786]

Aside from the chore of unlocking them, I think the custom moves were a pretty great novelty. I had so much fun torturing my friends with Pac Man’s Freaky Fruit.

[@somebol9047]

Nintendo PLEASE bring back Doc's Soaring Tornado PLEASE. Give ma boy some form of recovery

[@foggy8298]

I’m not sure why you talk about bowser’s fireball as a retro reference when he’s used it more than a steady flamethrower breath

[@comicking428]

Here's some ones I would've liked to see: Luigi's Ice Ball: Elemental twist would further differentiate it from Mario and it'd be cool to reference both the fire and ice flowers. Sonic's Burning Dash: Retool it to make it more like Sonic's Flame Somersault from Sonic Adventure 2 while down B is the true Spin Dash. Little Mac's Tornado Uppercut: I get the main one's better for combos, but Mac's recovery needs all the help it can get.

[@paulakroy2635]

Nah. Little Mac having a poor recovery is fine.

[@comicking428]

@@paulakroy2635 He doesn't need a great recovery, just not something that puts him at bottom tier in every game.

[@byts2160]

Instead of ice Luigi can be given an electricity based neutral b as a reference to his thunderhand abilities in Superstar Saga

[@bungusbajablast2877]

​@@paulakroy2635he's already screwed out of the best move category in the game

[@Koyn8]

I think the custom moves were quite good with the player's choicemaking. For example, with link, you had the option for a great combo/offstage finisher, or a damageless spin that takes you really far, changing playstyles a lot.

[@Dude7man]

Here’s my take on Final Cutter in Smash: Make Kirby do the first two slashes like how the attack works in Kirby games, then go up and down. This makes it a better out of shield tool while not being a more spammable projectile. Then, just make him go higher to boost recovery, while also making him go up and down at the same speed as the move is now. In all, these changes make the move more faithful to the original attack, make Kirby stronger in a way that pushes his gameplay direction, and still keeps him relatively simpler. Pay up, Nintendo, you’re welcome for the big money idea

[@koraxacollins9645]

Just want to come here to fantasize about how cool Bayo custome moves would have been, you know, since she could just have here other weapons as customs. Aaah, so cool.

[@nurfgal]

Shoutout to 12:18 for showing the Discord logo to indicate that the ping sound was (an accidental) part of the video and not just a random ping.

[@frostplays155]

10:36 or if you want to be faithful you could exchange final cutter for skyward slash, a sword attack that is exactly what you described

[@aceg.rookie]

Honestly I’d watch the hell out of more episodes talking about custom moves, don’t know how much more interesting the rest are compared to the ones highlighted in the video but even still, I could hear you talk about this stuff for days and never get tired of any of it.

[@justcallmexen]

Man, Smash on 3DS was a time for me for sure. This made me think of something for Roselina, just as a concept. One of her custom specials was just a flat out projectile star bit from Luma, which I thought was more interesting as the regular side special didn't feel like it did more than any other close range move, besides not have a corresponding hitbox one Roselina herself. You mentioned how not useful gravitational pull is, and I agree. I thought it might be more useful on a character that created an item of their own to interect with this item pulling mechanic. So what about this: this star bit projectile but if it is shielded, it drops and becomes an item, and not a throwable item, a small healing item, star bits are candy after all. Someone blocking can grab the item to heal a few percent, but a close enough and quick Roselina can pull it back in to take it for herself, and the timing will be even tighter if not impossible if the star bit is parried. It can be a reference to how lumas eat these things, and how they actually work in the source game, AND how they are scattered about when star bit meteors hit the ground.

[@X-zz6jm]

The one other thing I like about Ganondorf's Dropkick is that the way he travels with it in the air is actually a reference to how Phantom Ganon approaches you with his trident in OoT or how Puppet Zelda approached you with the sword in TP. So it's KIND of a Ganondorf-worthy move if you think about it. Just replace the leg with Sword or Trident/Spear and BOOM! That's a Ganondorf move that fits the character and references something he did.

[@frostsplash]

NASB 2 MENTION AND PRAISES!! Great vid, Mock! It drives me crazy that echo fighters didn't use custom moves at the very least 😩

[@dieg7749]

Ok as a Kirby Fan- I would say I’m fine with upper cutter but to make it more faithful to the games- change the move name to “upward slash” referencing a move the sword ability has gained in the modern 2D games. I never liked final cutter as an up B as in the games it is not used as a move to gain height- it as a finisher to a combo move akin to cloud’s side B and it didn’t even put you in any platforms above you in its earlier appearances. Upwards slash from the sword ability is basically how final cutter works in smash minus the projectile AND you have to hit B again in order to come back down (which is a separate move called sword dive). So I’d say brining in upward slash with the same properties as upper cutter can work-

[@Krona-fb4dn]

Customs, even as flawed and busted as some were, was still a very fun and cool concept and was the closest we got to new smash moves. I hope they’re revisited as they’re genuinely a great concept. I miss the days of middle school smash 3DS playing a custom game.

[@linkthepringlesman3951]

Kirby main and Kirby fan here: Upper Cutter has precedent in the Kirby series. Upward Slash is a move that the Sword ability has had since Return to Dream Land, and that move can optionally be comboed into Downward Thrust, a combo that is somewhat similar to Final Cutter, just without the shock wave. Smash could easily have Upward Slash and/or the optional Downward Thrust.

[@johnwatters1496]

10:03 what if it was like cloud’s up b where if you press the b button again it does the full cutter

[@waddlepikmin227]

On the final cutter move, I think a middle ground of incorporating both would work well. We see it in Cloud, whose up special rises up first, and uses a second button press to attack downward. Simply let Kirby have that option as well, and it keeps the best benefits of both forms of the move. You get a quick and safe upward option, and the choice for a second hit downward with the projectile afterwards.

[@TheSpeedfoever]

Yes I remember smash 4 and the amazing custom moves I want those back in the next smash please!

[@BigLadStudios]

Wizard's dropkick is so good. Or Warlock Dropkick, either way it was a dropkick and a ton of fun.

[@gengarisnotinsmash...]

Mock Rock on Palu: Teleport is boring, it moves you a set distance with a set timing, and is a rip off of another character. Mock Rock on Greninja: Shadow dash is cool, it moves you a set distance at a set timing, something that is very unique.

[@MockRockTalk]

Loooool they're not used the same at all but I hear you

[@icykuikinu6757]

Regarding Kirby's Upper/Final Cutter, what would be really nice is to have his ground variant ADD the melee combo aspect of it that's seen in his games (in his games, before he goes up and down, he slices the foe a few times beforehand). This way, he can still have an out of shield option that comes out fast, cuz in the games since Super Star, final cutter's melee attack comes out intensely quick. And for the aerial version, it'd be upper cutter essentially

[@CatsLilaSalem]

The Bowser Fire Breath does already get used in Mario N64 as an iconic Bowser move of course, and on top of that Bowser was highly requested for smash 64. And the Bowser posing while using fire breath is also good i think

[@mysteriousstranger6367]

Not a custom move, but an idea I've always loved is to make Ganons up tilt his smash 4 up smash instead of the volcano kick. You'd have to make it a bit weaker than it's smash 4 version, but it'd help Ganon so much

[@creative_commander4973]

Man… I love hearing the Conquest music. Thank you.

[@Dekmakinson9]

Easy solution to Kirby’s upper cutter, does the full attack while holding/mashing B but only the up motion when you just tap it

[@siahmazowsky7807]

I want a platform fighter built around the idea of custom moves. Just done well.

[@Evello37]

Multiversus is at least dabbling with the idea with its perks. For example, Wonder Woman has 3 different lasso options. One pulls opponents to you as a combo starter, one pulls you to opponents as a mobility option, and one has a brutal tipper hitbox for ranged attacks. Not every character gets perks that are as numerous and as impactful as WW, but there are some cool ideas in there.

[@Wizzkidwas]

With Kirby's Up-B, I've always said that adding the two hits of Slashing and Cleaving Cutter in that startup time which makes it an OoS option still whilst making it even more faithful to the original

[@C-Vite]

I really wanted custom moves back for Ult to hope that Ridley's other DownB options were better than his normal one

[@tailsBOOM1992]

I haven't seen the video yet, but I'll say the ones I'd really want to see first and see how similar ours are (Mine aren't in a specific order): 1) Little Mac's Compact Counter 2) Bowser's Fire Shot 3) Luigi's Iceball 4) Ganondorf's Wizard's Dropkick 5) Ganondorf's Warlock Blade 6) Literally any of Mega Man's for Proto-Man or another potential echo 7) Brawler's Ultimate Uppercut 8) Brawler's Headache Maker 9) Palutena's Celestial Fireworks 10) Sonic's Stomp, maybe if you held neutral B or something (It was cool to see him get one of his actual moves as a custom, which was one of the very few cases of this lol)

[@tailsBOOM1992]

After viewing, our lists were pretty similar, and some of the ones you said were ones I considered putting down like Palutena, Sheik and Melee Charge Shot.

[@Lov-Atl]

11:10 ROSALINA NEEDS THIS

[@TJ-Henry-Yoshi]

Man custom moves are so cool. Its no wonder towards the end of my time playing smash ultimate, that I started playing the miis because it genuinely feels incredible to have small portions of your moveset that you can just tweak on the fly. I had something similar in Sm4sh when I played Zelda since she had utility off of two different control schemes. For Zelda, the C-Stick was a PIVOTAL part of your gameplan and I remember using BOTH special and tilt-stick Tilt stick - allowed her to more carefully space aerials which were obviously SUPER important in punishing openings, more immediate access to her tilts which were fantastic "get-off-me" tools, and increased her consistency getting kills off of down throw -> up air. Special stick - COMPLETELY changes the movement she could do thanks to the various ways you could use phantom to wave bounce. It turned phantom from a slow, predictable and nonthreatening move that doesn't synergize to an insane walling tool that could not only make _her_ harder to track, but the bulky set of armor she's sending out to slash you. A move that would normally be so slow that no one would ever get hit by it, actually somewhat viable thanks to its stage presence and mixup potential.

[@BagelEnjoyer]

HI HENRY I HOPE YOU'RE ALRIGHT AND THAT YOU ENJOY THE EXISTENCE OF MARISA TOUHOU

[@jasomega2446]

I can see melee charge shot as a forward smash for Dark Samus.

[@ShayTheValiant]

I would love to see a part 2 of this. I'm sure there are other moves you think should have been in Ultimate.

[@barbaricbacon9139]

For Kirby upper cutter, I could imagine it being similar to climb hazard where the drop down and send out a shockwave part is initiated with a 2nd button press to keep the reference to the games in Kirby’s kit, though considering the frame data upgrade of upper cutter, maybe not

[@nicolask.3825]

Bowser needs his Slash Dash back, I was shocked to see you pick Fireball over that one. While I agree Rosalina's Down B is more fit for replacement, I actually really liked her Luma Teleport Neutral B, trading off launching Luma with a hitbox for setting him up consistently for combos. I don't even play Ness much these days but I gained him in 4 and Rosalina was the bane of my existence, I'll forever dislike her for that.

[@theenderkirby]

I do wish yoshi would have the bouncy egg roll to be honest, it felt like it made egg roll function and give yoshi a good burst option from the ground

[@Stock_Junction]

Wizard's Dropkick alone would've benefited Ganondorf so much and arguably could make him higher on the tier list (I'd say around where the Belmonts are maybe). Dark Fists helps him differentiate from Falcon Dive + adds armor at the first few frames so that's beneficial imo. Flame Chain is cool too, but Ganondorf players benefits so much from Flame Choke, so best way I can think of to have both is holding side special would have him do Flame Chain while tapping it uses Flame Choke.

[@gojiboy69]

Man I miss Wizard's Dropkick, DK's 3rd Custom Up-B and Tempest. Those were really good and honestly kinda fun to use. One was a better utility and the others was funny windbox.

[@SvanTowerMan]

I normally skip sponsored segments, but I'm a diehard Trekkie, so the sponsorship this time around interested me.

[@Hexacosichoron12]

I loved smash 4 and it's customisation honestly. I wasn't a competitive player but I loved them

[@ButterStick64]

Bowser’s Dash Slash Side-B deserves an honorable mention. It was a wild burst movement option, canceled pretty fast, and had decent kill power, if less than his standard side-B. Not at all in character or referential, but it was so fun to use.

[@AverageDoctor345]

Yes!! The Gravity Grenade is so cool!

[@demfrodegroot7596]

I think Kirby's Air cutter should make you hold the button to do the up and down, similar to Cloud's version, where if you only do one input, it just goes up.

[@eddiec9756]

Yeah in my mind characters like Proto-Man and Medusa could have been easy echo fighters because they could have used the old custom specials from Smash 4. Glad to see someone finally made a video addressing the missed opportunity to utilize the old custom moves in Ultimate because for years no one talked about them when it came to diversifying and decloning characters.

[@BigDnotimpressed]

Ganondorf also should've kept dark fist. His down B could also be reworked into that charge move he does in TOTK.

[@serpentine8229]

Now that I think about it, it is Kinda strange that the Echo fighters (like Dark Samus, Dark Pit, Daisy, etc) never had their counterpart’s Sm4sh custom special. At least anything for differentiating them

[@ClassifiedRanTom]

Sonic’s “stomp” move. Keep spin-dash when he’s on the ground, but when it’s performed in the air, that’s when he performs stomp.

[@Team-Eclipse6024]

I wasn't around for smash 4, but I really like the Greninja change. Its a basic, but impactful change to his specials (which are the main reason why I don't play him) and would be a nice buff that would by no means make him broken.

[@KCriticalHit]

Enjoyed the video. Really liked the opportunity of using custom moves to further differentiate clones and/or echoes. It is quite silly now think how easily they maybe could've done it with these potentials in mind. One thing I wished you went into more detail about, is what a Customy move is defined as to you. I get for the most part it means those moves that are basically "slower but stronger" or "faster but weaker", but I feel the video could've benefitted you outright saying that.

[@KennyMan666]

I loved custom moves in Smash 4. While the implementation was... a bit questionable, conceptually I think I still hold the opinion of it being my single most favourite thing they ever added to Smash and I was hoping for it to be expanded in the next game. So much for that! There are a number of custom moves I truly miss from 4, and I could write more about them, but I'll just mention the two that I miss the most: First being Crescent Slash, which I always liked way more than Dolphin Slash thanks to its angle, speed, and kill power, and I would have loved if they gave it to Lucina while letting Marth keep Dolphin Slash. Secondly, Mega Man's Tornado Hold, which I just loved everything about. It was such a great reversal tool in the air. Mega Man in particular is the character I most lament the loss of customs for, he was one of only two characters I played with all four of his specials replaced by a custom (...and, well, the other one was Lucina), with Hyper Bomb/Danger Wrap/Skull Barrier/Tornado Hold. And it would have made so much sense for Mega Man to have swappable weapons. Ah well, maybe they'll do something more with custom moves for the next Smash game. It was such a fantastic idea, it's so sad they dropped the ball on executing it and then scrapped it.

[@basementchild26051]

If upper cutter does get in smash, I think they should reskin the move to look like that upper slash move from the sword copy ability (can’t remember it’s name sorry) as that move is basically the same gameplay wise. Great vid btw!

[@SuperTriscraft5]

Something I love is that super smash flash 2 uses some of these, like Ganondorf's Wizard drop kick, Bowser's Fire shot and Pit's Guiding bow

[@dariuscox3576]

While we’re on the topic of Rosalina, I would also change the Neutral Special to be the Luma Warp custom special, where Rosalina just warps Luma a set distance away from her. This would’ve been a way more fitting neutral special for her instead of whatever the heck Luma Shot was trying to accomplish. It lets lean more into the puppet aspect of her character. I was never a fan of Luma Shot, how you have to charge for a brief moment just to separate Luma, but with Luma Warp, it’s literally instantaneous. Combine that special with the Luma Guardian Down Special you mentioned, and I’d be the perfect Rosalina special combo. Warp Luma, use Down Special to act as a large wall/meat shield a set distance away (at 17:04). Hell, you even used Luma Warp during the Luma Guardian discussion.

[@lasercraft32]

I still don't get why Bowser's neutral special was designed that way... Bowser doesn't even breath fire like that in most of his in-game appearances. Almost EVERY TIME they give him and slow moving fireball attack, even in the original Mario Bros! Considering how Sakurai based Bowser off of his first pixelated appearance (hence why it took him so long just to stand upright) I genuinely have no idea why he went with the flamethrower approach.

[@thewisthersgames]

It was because in early game as they were fully design in the casual sense Sakurai thought giving heavy weight projectiles would make them too OP. Now evidently with future games having some sort of regard to the competitive scene they began giving heavies projectiles but even then they are on the slower side

[@TheTrueBrawler]

This is only really true if you're strictly looking at traditional 2D Mario platformers, which usually depict his fire breath as shooting balls or bolts of fire at the player. While a steady stream of fire similar to what's seen in Smash is sometimes used in conjunction with the fireball, Bowser is absolutely depicted using the firestream quite often (even before the release of Smash 64, so it's not a Smash original). Some appearances of the firestream include Super Mario 64, Super Mario Sunshine, Super Mario Galaxy 2, Super Mario Odyssey, Bowser's Fury, over half of all Paper Mario games if not all of them, all five currently released Mario & Luigi games, Luigi's Mansion, Super Princess Peach, Yoshi's Topsy-Turvy, a lot of the Mario sport games, quite a lot of Mario Party minigames, and even some of the traditional 2D games like New Super Mario Bros 2 and Super Mario Wonder. The firestream is just as close to Bowser's identity as if not closer than the fireball.

[@Acuace]

The custom move staples -Bigger and slower version of existing move -Fast and weaker version of existing move -Recovery that doesn't go high but kills -Recovery that removes hitbox to almost always recover

[@elliotkach1265]

Always love videos like this that talk about the competitive aspects of the game alongside the design, and how you can improve both at the same time. Great work as always!!

[@toxic_shr00m]

My personal favorite Bowser custom move was dash slash. Being able to use it in the air, land, and be actionable frame 1 was insane. So much fun and singlehandedly made Bowser lowkey amazing at times.

[@MarcusFigueras]

If they could make a brand new recovery for kirby, it would be cool to see like a warp star recovery where it's like the item but also where it's like king dedede and you can cancel it on just the ascent. Having a recovery where you can choose either a strong stomp or a quick slash up would be awesome especially for kirby

[@primrosevale1995]

Fun fact: the official way to refer to Super Smash Bros. for 3DS/Wii U together is not Smash 4, but _Super Smash Bros. for_. Regardless, here are some ideas I had on how to make some of these moves better/change them for the better of the character. Wizard's Dropkick: ~ Honestly you could just import the qualities of this move into the Bestial Rampage move MockRock came up with for his own Ganondorf rework video. Make it a decently powerful but not interruptible burst option and if aimable a much better recovery tool. Melee Charge Shot: ~ The only problem with this concept is that Dark Samus can actually use the Charge Shot in the _Prime_ games. However, a close-range burst like this move would make for a great smash attack. Fire Shot: ~ There is technically a way to keep both the standard fire stream while also including the fireballs. Think about it, in what game does Bowser first breathe a stream of fire? _Super Mario 64._ What does he do in that game? He takes a deep inhale before releasing the flame on a consistently timed exhale. Make it so if you hold the special button, Bowser inhales during Fire Breath's startup and before releasing the stream like it does now, but it's only for a specific time at a consistent strength before immediately stopping. Sell its power more, prevents the stream being spammed, and further differentiates it from Flamethrower. Then make it so when you tap the special button he releases a single fireball shaped like those in _Super Mario Bros._ Upper Cutter: ~ I hate how Final Cutter is Kirby's up special, because it's such a random choice in both Copy Ability and a move for that Copy Ability. You know what's one of Kirby's most popular abilities that isn't represented in Smash in any way? *SWORD.* Why isn't this Upwards Slash, where Kirby leaps diagonally upward with his sword held out in front of him, dragging opponents with him? You could even make it so by pressing the special button again you immediately transition into Sword Dive, diving forwards with your opponent (It can even send out a shockwave if you hit the ground). Much better representation of the Kirby series, doesn't make you helpless, and doesn't send you to an early grave if used to recover. It's Upper Cutter and a bag of chips. Jump Glide: ~ Sakurai's design for Palutena is legitimately concerning, WHY doesn't she actually use her goddess level powers instead of those from a random battle mode. Base her special moves on her boss battles in Uprising, and since she's a god, make it so her regular attacks seem normal but are much more powerful then you'd expect. Have her twirl taunt be an actual move, have her sneeze cause an explosion, the Skyworld's the limit. Have her summon a Centurion Strongarm ala Zelda's Phantom, and have her Final Smash be summoning the entire Centurion army. Shadow Dash: ~ You could honestly make this move even better by making it Night Slash as an excuse to have Greninja create a katana out of darkness and appear from the shadows to stab enemies through the chest from behind. I mean the move is called "Crossroad Killing" in Japanese it seems fitting. Gravity Grenade: ~ I hate Sheik in _Smash_ so much. All of his specials should be based on the song attacks he uses in Hyrule Warriors, you know, since the songs are literally what Sheik does _Ocarina of Time?!_ And the up special should actually show him using a Deku Nut and leaping off somewhere. Save the acrobatics and kunai strikes for the regular attacks, take some attacks from Age of Calamity's Impa if you need to! A Sheikah should not be using a modern-style grenade! MockRock also needs to stop misgendering him, after all he's essentially Zelda's drag king persona. Hurricane Spin: ~ All you need to do is just make the charged version of Toon Link's Spin Attack become the Hurricane Spin. Then, for an aerial version, just give him the Deku Leaf and rise up on an updraft before falling slowly downwards either forwards or backwards. Guardian Luma: ~ Honestly I think the best way to deal with all issues with Gravitional Pull is to just replace it with another crowning feature of the _Galaxy_ games: the Star Spin. I mean, both Rosalina and Luma can both use the move, gives them both a decently powerful attack with quick start-up, assists their recoveries slightly, and could even deflect/reflect projectiles if you wanted to. If you really want the Star Cursor incorporate it into the side special since that's actually how you shoot Star Bits. Shocking Sheet: ~ As a Doc main, I think moving Dr. Tornado to the side special slot and maybe making it so the latter is made up of swirling bandages ala the Doctor ability in Kirby (which is in itself based on Dr. Mario) would be a better move. But we all know they wouldn't bother to make Doc a unique character. Impact Orbitars: ~ Dark Pit honestly needs a rework, give him the Dark Pit Staff as his neutral special, save the Silver Bow for a few attacks and a new Final Smash based off his boss fight in Chapter 6 of _Uprising._ Then have him use the Violet Palm, EZ Cannon, Ogre Club, and the First Blade in his moveset, since he uses them in his boss fight/appearances. I don't know, use the Cannon or the Club for his down special? Hyper Bomb: ~ I have actually planned an entire rework for Mega Man where has a weapon from every mainline Mega Man game. I'd personally make his neutral special the Spark Chaser from the _Game Boy_ version of _Mega Man V._ Yeah it's a laser but it not only homes in on opponents, you can manually move it in any directions after firing it, and it hits multiple times. Tell me that's not an upgrade over Metal Blade. Crescent Slash and Dashing Assault: ~ Just give Chrom and Lucina that spinning slash from the air they have in _Awakening_ for their up special and it basically coevrs the same bases. You honestly make Crescent Slash Marth's up special at this point. As for Dashing Assault on Lucina I say just have her and Chrom use their second heavy attack from _Fire Emblem Warriors_ for their neutral special, an upwards sword swing that launches opponents into the air. Guiding Bow: ~ Since it's clear Pit doesn't need this move, I'm just going to say I think we can all agree that Pit should use more of _Uprising's_ weapons instead of just the Palutena Bow. Think of it: the Upperdash Arm for a dash attack, the Atlas Club for smash attacks, the Palutena Blade for aerials, the Needle Palm for throws, and the Tiger Claws for a side special. Falcon Dash Punch: ~ While I personally think Falcon should be an Assist Trophy by now if they can't make him game accurate, if you really had to, make Falcon attack more like his vehicle ala the Star Fox characters. Give him a Boost Power neutral special and if you really want that burst option then have him use a Dash Plate for his side special. Aether Wave: ~ Honestly Ragnell's projectile should really replace Eruption at this point, as well as replacing Quick Draw with an attack that uses Urvan. The real question is should Aether heal Ike equal to the damage inflicted and temporarily lower the opponent's armor like in the source material? Stomp: ~ I'll never understand why MockRock's first instinct was to make the Stomp a *GODDAMN SPECIAL MOVE.* It should replace his down aerial and actually be a stomp, not a bounce, as that's actually a separate move entirely. The Spin Dash is literally activated by pressing Down in his home games, *THAT* should be down special and function like it does in those games (make the aerial version the Drop Dash to be more bearable. Lastly, all those cancel shenanigans MockRock mentions? Those are part of the *BOOST,* not the stomp. Make that his side special as a faster but not invincible Wonderwing and allow him to cancel it like how MockRock describes. If you've read this far, pat yourself on the back, seriously. Thank you for taking the time to read all this.

[@video_cookies]

I'd love to see a part 2! I loved custom moves and I was really sad when they didn't really make it into Ultimate. Love seeing someone talking about them!

[@caper7635]

I was ADDICTED to using Kirby’s upper cutter in Smash 4, nice to see it on this list

[@TuesdayTastic]

I'm so sad that they forgot about custom moves because it was genuinely an awesome idea but was mishandled so poorly. If they make a Smash 6 with less characters I hope that they bring back custom moves with more thought put into it this time.

[@randybracciodieta6485]

Did bro just say that teleport moves are biring and then immediately follow it up with greninja should get a teleport move, and in the last video I watched he said he loved gravitational pull and he loved fighting against Rosalina and Luma because of it and now he wants to get rid of it?

[@therealHLY]

for kirby, in a case of just... giving him something, I kind of wish we got a half-combo of uppercutter and the faithful final cutter. let it have the speed and upwards hit all the time, then the option of the down. sure it wouldn't be an option you used much if at all, but it'd keep the reference and you can give it something to make it appealing, like actual power on the downwards swing or something.

[@MCWaxC]

I think with final cutter you could just make it like Cloud’s up special where you choose whether or not you want to commit to going back down, but keep the first half the same as the custom move if you don’t press b again.

[@Hoopryfien]

Love the music choice of Silent Guardians for Ganondorf's segment

[@Platformer64]

19:09 Im down for this idea kinda, but what I like being done in modded and/or ESPECIALLY in official Smash moves is when a special is completely different when done in the air. So for me I'd personally keep spindash as Down special but only while on the ground, and while air bourn down special is stomp, and to avoid having multiple spin dashes since Ik thats the main complaint with Sonic's moveset, just give him a chargeable light speed dash as Side special

[@SeaOfPixels]

Thank you for doing my video request! I hope you do a second video on this, maybe one where you go through every custom and rate it on a tier list based on how much/little you think it should be in the main moveset. Maybe you could lump all the moves that are just stronger/weaker slower/stronger versions in a single tier where you don't rate them, with perhaps some exceptions that you think would actually be a good change.