Nerfing EVERY Smash Ultimate Character

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Super Smash Bros. Ultimate tier lists are more up in the air than ever right now, aaaaaaaannnnd I don't care. Steve, Kazuya, Kirby, Ganondorf, all of you are getting nerfed today!
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Music used:
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"MockRock is Here" - MockRock
"Jump Up, Super Star!" - Super Mario Odyssey OST
"Mute City" - F-Zero OST (Super Smash Bros. Brawl Remix)
"With Mila's Divine Protection" - Fire Emblem Gaiden (Super Smash Bros. Brawl Remix)
"Medley" - Pokémon Red and Blue OST (Super Smash Bros. Melee Remix)
"Acid Man Stage" - Mega Man 11 OST
"A Formidable Enemy" - Xenoblade Chronicles 3 OST
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"Infinite Azure" - Tekken 7 OST
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Thanks for watching!
#SmashUltimate #SuperSmashBros #Nintendo

[@MockRockTalk]

Thanks to MANSCAPED for sponsoring today's video! Get 20% OFF + Free International Shipping + 2 Free Gifts with my promo code "MOCKROCKTALK" at mnscpd.com/MockRockTalk *|* Also thanks to you all for watching! Tried something a little different today, what did you think of the choices as well as the overall video concept? *Main channel:* kzbin.info *Twitter:* twitter.com/MrMockRock *Patreon:* www.patreon.com/mockrock *Twitch:* www.twitch.tv/mockrocktwitch *Teespring:* teespring.com/stores/mockrock *TimeBolt affiliate link* (excellent software I use to speed up editing on my videos, use code "MOCKROCK" for a discount): mockrock--timebolt.thrivecart.com/order-page/

[@Ivy64_]

honestly, great sponsor transition. very slick

[@MockRockTalk]

@@Ivy64_ Haircut was incoming anyways, the timing honestly worked out perfectly lol

[@Ulekius]

@@MockRockTalk a true entrepreneur if ever I've seen one

[@vaderwalks]

I'm not buying Manscaped on principle, but that sponsored bit was pretty slick.

[@Dallas_57]

DUDE WHY GETTING YOUR INTRO THEME COST MONEY BROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[@Cadesworth]

My favorite part of this video is Mockrock nerfing Luigi to try and stop the 0-death as if Luigi players aren't going to come up with a new one half an hour after the theoretical nerf

[@grunkleg.3110]

Honestly, I think Luigi's problem move might be moreso Super Jump Punch than D-Air. Most of his combos finish with an Up B, and it's a great finisher because of how crazy strong it is. I guess you could fix that by decreasing base knockback but then having KBG go way up. And definately reduce knockback of aerial Up B

[@Succer]

Every time someone makes a luigi zero to death comment it just applies way better to ice climbers.

[@BlisteringBlue42]

I think a good nerf was if slightly more knockback was added to his down throw.

[@xolotltolox7626]

@@Succer ICs is just too incosistent to ever come up

[@peter42466]

@@BlisteringBlue42 your destroying the character they aren’t ever coming back from that

[@maximeminassian6002]

For Ganondorf, I’d say get rid of the super armor of neutral B, because it would actually prevent the Ganons from arguing this move isn’t absolutely awful.

[@MockRockTalk]

Not gonna lie, I don't hate this

[@justincurrin9295]

Also knowing what has armor on it can only be found out when you try to hit them during it and often get hit by it because there's no way to know until you try to challenge it.

[@KRcanondaisa]

Honestly the armour is really pointless, because he can still be grabbed and the move takes a whole 2 seconds to actually come out. Remove it lmao

[@LloydTheZephyrian]

@@KRcanondaisa A little more than a second, but still ultra reactable.

[@nocturn333]

@@KRcanondaisa To be fair that is if you're throwing it out in neutral. If your opponent is mashing out of disadvantage or really predictable with their recovery you MIGHT be able to get away with using it as a pseudo counter.

[@Odyssey_Central]

Really happy that you took a characters whole design into account for this video! I know a lot of people who’d just nerf the annoying thing but I feel like this approach makes way more sense and was a lot more interesting.

[@stun7884]

'DuDe JuSt MaKe KaZuYa HaVe A nOrMaL aMoUnT oF mOvEs, ThAt WaY I DoNt GeT 0 - dEaThEd' - the people you know

[@gmwes]

hello Odyssey Central

[@Mnadekaibs]

I feel like odyssey and mock rock could make a good video together

[@imn_fauler6098]

New bowser city is a good track

[@peter42466]

Watch a darker side run

[@aneasteregg8171]

Luigi being a grappler actually makes a ton of sense in the context of the Luigi's Mansion games.

[@soulcyclone360]

Considering it's one of the few games where he has a kit that isn't just borrowed and tweaked from Mario, it makes so much more sense than just a standard grab.

[@SSM24_]

I do agree that being a grappler is kinda cool especially considering how abysmal his horizontal mobility is, but I also do feel like _something_ about his grab game could be nerfed because it feels like a bit much right now.

[@soulcyclone360]

@@SSM24_y'know, I think his grab having alot more end lag wouldn't be too unfair on him considering its already a tether grab

[@gebis8515]

I would say it makes sense, but I would personally like to see his design merging ideas from Luigi's Mansion and Mario & Luigi RPG (Gooigi supplementing Mario for bros attacks?) and I do not think an excellent standard grab would really fit that design. Luigi could absolutely have a cool grab-game with a vacuum command-grab though, and it might honestly make more sense than the plunger being the focus of his grab-game since the plunger is more of a secondary or even tertiary option in Luigi's Mansion 3.

[@julietheghost9607]

Okay but I'm still holding my breath for a 3 hour comprehensive breakdown of every way you'd redesign each character's kits, that seems like a totally reasonable ask :)

[@MockRockTalk]

More comprehensive rework videos are something that get requested a lot, I do have some ideas vaguely along those lines but no set schedule at this point

[@pokerface7531]

@@MockRockTalk If you do that, in my opinion, Kirby just need 1 thing, replace all his specials with the character he copies, that's all Kirby needs, no stats buff or change frame data in his attacks, just that and Kirby would be a good character without being "broken" and also fun to use bc yes

[@waffleman8053]

@@pokerface7531 That would be WAY to much work for the development team.

[@pokerface7531]

@@waffleman8053 i know, i just think that's what Kirby needs to be fully represented, relying in copy abilities, i don't want the developers to suffer lol

[@loganalleman]

That's the sort of video you'd need to do some communication with the character communities for. As much as I like MockRock's takes, a full rework for each character would take an absurd amount of character knowledge. That being said, I'd love to see it happen

[@neidenMetalun]

_As long as there's 2 characters in a fighting game... Someone's going to want someone nerfed._

[@XykonOverlord]

Super Smash Brother. It’s just Mario.

[@aprinnyonbreak1290]

@@XykonOverlord Nerf cape

[@silverpotato4272]

Nice reference

[@LilMrPizza]

I like to think Sonic’s forward Smash is a reference to how the Warehog has super long stretchy arms in Unleashed.

[@MockRockTalk]

Technically it's just a reference to the Wind-Up Punch from Sonic The Fighters, but I like your interpretation more lol

[@Alibaba-id1cs]

@@MockRockTalk the werehog sounds much better and the move itself should stay that way. Probably should reduce the knockback on spin so it won’t kill and the combo potential will be more harder to get which will force more Spincharge. Reducing Sonic kill power and range only wants more campy Sonic and in this game it’s much less required than S4

[@cryguy0000]

It'd be neat if he turned into the werehog during the punch. He could also get a sword movie and get his Black Knight design when using the move

[@wingedbluj1674]

It's a very loose interpretation and making him the Warehog for just that move is just poor design (honestly not much worse than how Sonic is designed already). Not to mention the actual lore of the warehog would be completely shattered.

[@Brivalia]

@@wingedbluj1674 we have link with moves from 500 different incarnations of link and ganon as an old man who can’t move or deal with projectiles. I think giving sonic something that sonic has done in a sonic game would be fine.

[@zernek9199]

Barely into this video, but the nerf I'd personally give Samus' Charge Shot would be its priority. Compare Charge Shot to Ryu's Shakunetsu or Samus' Homing Missile. Shakunetsu and the missle lose to a surprising amount of moves (although timing that can be kinda hard), but then look at charge shot, which you can rarely ever beat out in the same way, and the reward for landing this move is higher than both of those moves most of the time. I think giving it much lower priority would still keep it a good move, as it could combo and kill like before, but it would no longer be the "dictate neutral for free" tool.

[@lucastyson5230]

I’d remove its combo ability, make it more of a kill move and not let it’s smaller shots combo

[@skarmcl]

Priority doesn't exist beyond trascendency, clanking is only dependant on the damage attacks deal and Ryu's multihit Shakunetsu and Samus' Homing Missile naturally get destroyed easier than the 20% dealing Charge Shot. It's pretty much impossible to do without reworking how the clash system works in Smash

[@Nexyr]

link nair would like to know your location

[@zernek9199]

@@skarmcl Well the point is, the weaker charge shot ALSO is much harder to beat out, so modifying how that move behaves and making it easier to beat out would be good. You wouldn't need to rework how the entire clash system works, I don't think.

[@skarmcl]

@@zernek9199 depends on how weak, the no charge charge shot gets demolished by any sort of aerial but the one that's charged halfway (the one that deals ~20%) is significantly harder if not impossible to destroy. You could make it so charge shot deals less damage but reaccomodate its knockback properties to keep similar power, that way you have a 15% dealing projectile at max charge that's still very powerful in terms of knockback and can still combo thanks to the added hitlag and low bkb but can be destroyed easier... but there are so many charge shots that share similar properties that it'd need a reformulation of it. Charge Shot isn't even the best Charge Shot, Shadow Ball is, but Samus' kit and weight is better suited to use one than the one Mewtwo has. If I'd nerf something of Samus it'd actually be her bomb, I feel like the bomb is the true evil of Samus. Charge Shot is good and helps her dictate neutral but it's just that, a powerful projectile. The bomb make her neutral harder to deal as it lays a zone limiting projectile that covers her while she charges up and allows her to more easily counteract the opponent's aggresive initiatives, assists in her disadvantage by adding a tool that instantly allows her to correct her drift and stall a bit too, making it safer to recover and land which makes getting inside Samus' zone less impactful. And the advantage applications are just obscene, she already has Charge Shot as a safe way to cover several ledge options on reaction with zero risk and now she has a tool that limits how much you can wait and cuts the one option she's unable to react to, as well as giving her some pretty free edgeguards on certain characters. It's not her mosr overcentralizing tool but it's one complementary tool that lets her do things that shouldn't be allowed for her archetype (Plus it's annoying af) Make it laggier and have a smaller hitbox, not much else needs to be done

[@sarasaland4709]

“Nerfing EVERY Ultimate character.” K. Rool, Mac, Ganon, Piranha Plant: Why are we here? Just to suffer?

[@MockRockTalk]

Yes.

[@MajoraWaffle]

k rool hasn't been bottom tier in years tho

[@MrGameguyC]

& Doc's just sitting there, forgotten again.

[@ballisticboo7808]

Piranha plant ain't bad at all

[@ivain1084]

There's actually a rather good video by Jacob Geller who hints on Ganon being in Smash specifically to suffer (and get ecstatic payback).

[@TheAAJYu]

For Simon and Richter, I’d change them so that only Simon can angle his aerial whip strikes and only Richter can change the trajectory on Axe and Cross. Simon being more proficient with the whip references how he could whip in different directions in Super Castlevania. Meanwhile, Richter having greater control of his specials can indirectly tie to the greater emphasis of sub weapons in Rondo of Blood courtesy of Richter’s signature Item Crash.

[@YounesLayachi]

That would utterly destroy Richter but I'm not against it

[@tekwizwa]

@@YounesLayachi angling cross alone already makes richter have a bigger threat bubble than Simon, I think this would be a great change for the both of them

[@agx8447]

Excuse me, you can angle axe?

[@TheAAJYu]

If you tilt the control stick in or out right before you throw the axe, it will be thrown at different trajectories.

[@KLIXORthe]

That's such a harsh nerf for either of them given the scope of nerfs in this video lmao. Neither of them are even that good to begin with.

[@camtheman7654]

The two birds with one stone got me, even thwomp was like "That was awful, I'm out of here"

[@lucg4005]

I love the idea of wiff lag on kazuya. It’s pretty common in most fighting games where if you miss a move you get much more lag after, but connecting it with an opponent cuts down that lag so you can combo them. I feel like putting that specifically on electric wind god fist would give it a risk, while still having great reward.

[@SSM24_]

Is this actually a common mechanic in fighting games outside of being able to special cancel / sometimes normal cancel? I haven't played a ton of different fighting games but in the ones I have played this is mostly a consequence of being able to cancel the endlag of normals into another move if they connect.

[@marlinmurrell620]

@@SSM24_ it's typically the case in most fighting games. You can whiff a move and be punished for it harshly. But it usually depends on the frame data if it's safe or not when just straight up whiffing and whiffing on block.

[@SSM24_]

@@marlinmurrell620 I think that's just called "blockstun" :p

[@YounesLayachi]

I would add whiff staling to smash. To much swinging at ghosts in neutral in my opinion

[@ExaltedUriel]

@@YounesLayachi I agree (looking at you, Falcons) but I feel like there's a better solution than universal whiff staling. Even if it would be "technically" good for the health of the meta, on a base level I think it would make the game feel worse (and make Melee fans complain for taking away their precious APM... those useless, useless actions)

[@insomniacnerd5592]

Honestly, I’d be interested in watching him go through what he’d do to update every character for a potential Smash 6 game. Think there’s a lot of potential there to have some fun content. Split the characters up so the video isn’t too long and you’d be good to go! Make it a new series. You’ve always got great ideas and insight, so it would be amazing to see.

[@egon3705]

one squirtle buff i'd love going into smash 6: bring shell shifting back it was rad in brawl and i think they shouldn't've removed it

[@aprinnyonbreak1290]

Oh god, no. Most characters list their one good trick, Pikachu got literally one of its least significant tricks nerfed, and not even in a way that actually impacts it. Please release me from Smash 6

[@adrientorres1014]

I think Steve should just lose all of his ressources when he dies, just like in Minecraft

[@uberculex]

Banjo: I'm going to ruin his most important tool Steve: Let's barely touch minecart BALANCE!

[@rapidtomato3955]

ganondorf: *nervous sweating*

[@kaoshbe2881]

I'm a Jigglypuff player and I DIDN'T KNOW SHE HAD INVINCIBILITY ON HER DASH ATTACK

[@MockRockTalk]

It's not true invincibility, if you look at her in training mode she won't turn blue, but her head hitbox is significantly disjointed so it's functionally largely the same thing

[@insomniacnerd5592]

Feels like tripping moves should either be changed to not have trips, or have guaranteed trips at lower percents. Randomness isn’t fun to deal with, especially when it can dictate the entire flow of the match.

[@MockRockTalk]

I fully agree with this and I do think it's a mechanic that should be removed entirely, but DK is definitely the poster child for it in my eyes

[@YounesLayachi]

Items dropping is also random

[@aprinnyonbreak1290]

*Laughs in Judge and Menu*

[@june9914]

@@aprinnyonbreak1290 while judge is hilarious fishing a 9 usually isn’t on a gnw players plan tbf

[@sevendollarsthirtyonecents]

For Diddy, make banana peel like wonderwing, cap it at like 4 or 5 per stock so the player has to make intentional use instead of popping it whenever they get a chance to.

[@waffleman8053]

Or you could just give it a cooldown. Similar to Wario's bike.

[@YounesLayachi]

Both number or cooldown are interesting ways

[@aprinnyonbreak1290]

As a tradeoff Dropping the banana now creates a skinless banana that diddy can eat, or risks losing to the enemy if they use it in midair or can't stay for it

[@FalcoVille]

Honestly I really like that up air idea for a Falco nerf. I'm glad you didn't go the cop out route of "just nerf up tilt lol". If I had to choose something big to nerf, I'd probably remove forward air's landing hitbox. That move lets Falco get away with a lot more than he should sometimes.

[@Kyara7]

Falco's landing fair hitbox might actually be my single least favorite hitbox in the game

[@YounesLayachi]

I would remove all the multihit aerial landing hitboxes

[@eriknelson3238]

Maybe it's an unfair criticism but I think landing hitboxes especially in online play are obnoxious. Punishing things online is already adding a tight timing window because of the extreme lag and allowing characters to cover their own landings is an added layer of frustration.

[@ivain1084]

As a Falco main, that was exactly my thought :) This landing hitbox honestly makes us lazy sometimes.

[@s.a.k.i7768]

Ikr,it's basically : "Oh shit,they didn't come into my Fair attack,I'm gonna get punishe ...SIKE! LANDING HITBOX SAVE THE DAY"

[@stonebrick1562]

I love the solution of giving the character with a terrible recovery, taking away half the recovery length lol

[@aelechdeepestflame4347]

“Let’s just delete Dr. Mario’s up-b!”

[@KeleuHerdley]

I don’t really agree with Richter f tilt being changed because “it’s a Simon move.” F tilt is used by literally EVERY Belmont that ever lived. So maybe up air would be a better candidate for additional startup, because Richter can’t whip up in his games, but Simon can is SCV4.

[@insomniacnerd5592]

I can listen to MockRock discuss Smash whenever and wherever, no matter what mood I’m in or the subject they talk.

[@KRcanondaisa]

I'd love for Daisy to have more ground speed and less air speed, I think that would be an awesome change! You could also make her float last for way less time, but to compensate you could make her grounded moves faster and give her Peach's headbutt up-tilt from melee to make her more of a ground-based fighter. That's a bit off the topic of nerfing though LOL

[@pvzmariosonica8fan]

Maybe reduce the height of her double jump too? She had a double jump in _Super Mario Run_ but it didn't go very high

[@julienherard414]

@@pvzmariosonica8fan Instead of that, I would want Daisy's physical attributes (running speed, jump height, air acceleration, and physical attacks) increased as trade off for losing float. Any flower attacks would give the opponent a flower head

[@aprinnyonbreak1290]

I flip the other way. Daisy floats half as long, but twice as fast. Bad for stalling, hyper aggro

[@lasercraft32]

@@julienherard414 Having flower attacks put a flower on their head is a little _too_ overpowered, unless they were specifically nerfed a lot so the damage the opponent receives from the flower effect is about as substantial as Peach's regular up tilt damage.

[@julienherard414]

@@lasercraft32 her magic attacks would be weaker oversll, and the flower duration would be low. The more flower attacks tacked on in quick succession can increase the flower's duration, however.

[@Point5_]

The thing with falcon up-smash is that it used to not work properly and they tried to fix it by making it bigger

[@TatsuHaven]

So fun fact about the Corrin f smash on shield clip you used since that was me: I actually told the Yoshi player how to avoid/deal with it midset LOL

[@saccoli4919]

You can tell mocks been working on this video for a while lol. My boy looks like a crazy med student.

[@TheAntiburglar]

Oooooooooh interesting idea! I'll be interested to see a follow up if you do a buff version! :D

[@MockRockTalk]

There likely will be, whether it's the next video I'm not sure yet but I'm aiming for weekly uploads throughout most of November/December

[@Alibaba-id1cs]

Imagine buffing every character to be busted. I’d be down for it lmao

[@jmurray1110]

@@MockRockTalk got to get into the habit for the Christmas adverts eh

[@aidenzorn8322]

@@MockRockTalk gotta respect that Q4 grindset

[@kestrelynn]

@@MockRockTalk another interpretation for this would be how to buff every character to be top tier. Not just buffing a si gle move significantly, but buffing enough stuff with enough synergy so the character is positively broken on the tier of Aegis or other top tiers

[@Moon-nk3co]

I agree with your analysis for Ness, the Yo-yo hitbox shouldn’t have either lower power or just no hitbox at all. He has no trouble doing ledgetraps or edgegaurds, with his kit. Most people say PK Fire needs a cooldown, but I think the Yo-yo is what needs to go more. Especially at top-level.

[@MockRockTalk]

I know PK Fire is a move a lot of people find kind of annoying, but at the very least you need to actually use it like a proper projectile haha, yoyo breaks the standard waaaaay more

[@McBehrer]

1:40 ah, Manscaped sponsorship. sorry to hear that. Hope things get better for you soon.

[@astral_paladin6558]

"Hero has crits because rpg!" *Looks at Pokémon, Earthbound, Fire Emblem, Xenoblade, Final Fantasy, Persona and Kingdom Hearts reps*

[@jeipidr]

The only thing I heard about Link’s Nair was outside the hitboxes, was the absurd priority it has against other moves

[@openinginawe5518]

*"EVERYONE IS GRENINJA"*

[@blueblazeflame]

That sponsor transition was… just brilliant. Seriously where did that bag come from 😂

[@MockRockTalk]

That's my girlfriend standing on her tiptoes just out of frame haha, she absolutely nailed the timing on that

[@CrazyHand7894]

@@MockRockTalk Kudos to your girlfriend, then!

[@Son-Goku_Kakarot]

Always appreciate these longer-form videos that turn into discussion and takes character design into account. Keep rocking man, love all your content

[@marcmcfatter3045]

Cool video! I think everything was interesting and well-thought out, especially healthy nerfs to weaker characters. One thing about Duck Hunt! Each of the five gunmen that randomly pop out have a startup speed tied to them, so the startup is an RNG mechanic. I think this has a bit of intrigue since both players can use the different ones to their advantage.

[@zentendoxn8955]

33:15 I think if you were able to change Ness’ Up & Down Smashes together, but said that Sonic’s Side & Down Specials are too functionally different, you could do Mega Man’s Jab, F-Tilt, & N-Air together.

[@kwisowofer9872]

I kinda like this idea because there are definitely some characters defined by one move, and I think a lot of the time they prevent more interesting moves to replace them, like Charge shot being nothing like how it acts in Metroid, and if it was nerfed, then the possibility of replacing it with something more interesting like the ice beam isn’t as much of an impossibility… even if this video is just a “what if” thing.

[@uberculex]

Charge shot is a beautiful move once you leave the competitive mindset. When you are a newcomer, it instinctively shows you what this character is good at. Creating some bizarre negative edge charge shot will add unnecessary input ceiling for samus for "authenticity".

[@robofistsrevenge3288]

I do love these creative hypotheticals where you have to look at the character's entire kit. It really makes me want a video where you'd go through every character and replace one of their so-so moves with something more canonically accurate from their respective franchises. A _lot_ of characters have new/unexplored games that would add a lot of uniqueness to their tired old movesets. Mario, Samus, the Links, and Sonic are the obvious ones that come to mind, but I feel like everyone has some decent source material to pull from which would be fun to dig through if you look hard enough.

[@Yumutwo]

Random is to reliant on rng to be a functional character. So I propose random can now only pick Ganon, Mac and doc. This would make them waaaaay less annoying to fight

[@Eggscramblercomms]

I appreciate the extra schmoves Mockrock puts into his ad intro this time around

[@ZakStrife9]

Fun fact about Fox in Beta Ultimate He indeed suffered freefall after Side-Special

[@Leet-iz2fz]

Rework ideas for the Echo Fighters that are still too similar to the base characters: - Dark Samus is a mass of corruptive energy that, aside from having claws, is probably extremely hazardous to even touch, much less get smacked in the face by. Maybe she could have greater emphasis on her normals, with certain moves inflicting the "poison" effect that only normally exists in Spirits, Assist Trophies, and as the reskinned "curse" for Joker's side B. - Daisy: In Super Mario Run, Daisy has no float and a midair jump to differentiate her from Peach. Give her a triple jump in Smash and retool her aerials to be usable while rising and falling. - Dark Pit: Dark Pit is much more aggressive and to-the-point than Pit, but his Silver Bow has stronger projectiles in exchange for weaker melee. I would remove his Orbitars' reflector property in exchange for having him shoot a few blasts from them on use. - Richter: As MockRock said, emphasize the moves that come from him and de-emphasize the moves that come from Simon. I would specifically try to make it so that he has a harder time keeping opponents at his ideal distance, but an easier time surviving when they get to theirs. Nerf his projectiles but give him a higher Uppercut, faster dash attack and down tilt, et cetera.

[@astro_ap]

I absolutely love these videos. I’m not even very good at Smash but I still find these videos to be very informative and entertaining. I think it‘s your voice - it’s very relaxing. I don’t know why but I just love watching these videos. Not even as background noise. Like, MockRock videos are some of the only videos I will give my full, undivided attention to. Keep up the good work.

[@Evello37]

Big agree on Ike. Dash attack is definitely the move to hit if you had to nerf him. Last local I killed a ROB with rage dash sttack at like 50%. That move is heinous.

[@phosphene6086]

I would love a baseball bat smash animation tier list from you - you're the only person on youtube who could pull it off!

[@amateraceon5202]

I think you made Steve actually work like Minecraft where you can only build blocks attached to other blocks, meaning you couldn’t build on thin air, he’d be a much worse and more balanced character, even if you changed literally nothing else about him

[@asdfoifhvjbkaos]

i think the move would be straight up useless then

[@waffleman8053]

Your sacrificing the functionality of the character just for the sake of faithfulness.

[@SirNarax]

He is not strong to the extent where he would need one of his more iconic moves gutted to the point of uselessness to be 'balanced'. He is certainly on the higher end but I don't even think the case is rock solid that he is the strongest in the game. Minecart is a far more sensible thing to have a glance at nerfing. It is not a particularly fair move and changing it would bring him down a peg but not utterly destroy their purpose. Steve is a setup character, he is allowed to have a tool that enables setups.

[@neog8029]

It guts his absolutely degenerate combo game and cheesy block edguards while letting Steve still make a wall and mine in the corner. I for one would be all in on this change.

[@kimotokirby1601]

nah bro, that would make them esencially useless on top of chaging too much his playstile. It would be better to just nerf everithing else a bit

[@yobin3711]

The main thing I'd want to do to Steve would be to make him lose his materials when he dies. That's how it works in Minecraft. He shouldn't be able to spend a whole stock avoiding interaction for diamond only to come back to his next stock with immediate diamond tools if they're gonna be as strong as they are.

[@just-linx8271]

10:58 this is late, but in SSF2, Ness's up and down smash activate instantly regardless of holding the button or charge if the yo-yo dips below ledge. You still get the 2-frame, but there's a window of opportunity for the opponent to get back up.

[@YounesLayachi]

53:43 Steve's powered rails need both gold and redstone, he needs to mine redstone but it doesn't appear in the HUD icons/meter

[@trombonegamer14]

A thought on diddy: Though I'd hate to nerf this sweet monkey at all, I think a better candidate would be his down air. That shit is so cheesy, and there's confirms into spiking at ledge at obscene percents.

[@YounesLayachi]

38:45 yeah, it's a recurring theme for sword zoners to have really good grabs or throws because they couldn't be balanced properly with other good tools

[@MetaDHedge28]

For Palutena I'd actually bring her airspeed down a bit. It could prevent her from chaining together Nairs constantly but doesn't take too much combo potential away for other moves

[@lasercraft32]

A simple, easy, and fair nerf to Steve's minecart would just be to make it like Isabelle's fishing rod, and can't catch people if they shield it.

[@quantum6637]

Keeping the same shirt pre and post haircut was awesome detail :)

[@Chmmr]

coming from a steve main, a minecart nerf makes sense, but i personally would increase the startup on diamond moves by a couple frames each. By making there a slight tradeoff to crafting diamonds, it creates more interesting questions about what tools to craft (and i like the idea of it being an inverse upgrade compared to gold). It may also encourage the crafting of iron tools more, to get that power without the lag, which should reduce the amount of anvils/carts a steve uses. also, by making diamond a bit less useful, it makes mining a little less incentivized and promotes healthier play imo. and as a nice bonus, it makes insane moves like diamond fsmash and bair just a little bit less crazy

[@Luigiofthegods]

43:00 F for the CPU Snake

[@petery6432]

Now I want to see what you would buff about every single character

[@shaan__real]

I had a post on reddit where i asked for what number based changes to make moves better on the cast. Was interesting, like how you can declone characters more like dark samus and samus

[@SonicTheCutehog]

Nerfing Ganondorf would be like destroying a hospital

[@YounesLayachi]

Ganondorf mains would still thank you, cause afterwards they can flex on their opponents harder xD

[@paulnewton2284]

I once saw a Ridley absorb Marth's Critical Hit with the Plasma Breath thing. I was totally baffled until I figured out what exactly happened.

[@ellie8272]

Honestly every time you brought up a potential rework I got really excited. I'd love to see what ideas you have for certain characters to make them a little more fun

[@matthewkukowski4638]

In my experience as a Hero main, I rarely ever hit crit F-Smash because I never throw them out. The few times I crit is usually a double Down-Smash crit on a Kacrackle Slash frozen enemy or an Up-Smash crit on an enemy on a platform (and even then Up-Tilt with Oomph or Psych Up is usually safer). If I was going to nerf something about Hero that would impact higher levels of play, it would be not giving him the reduced mana restoration effect when he hits a shield, and just not restoring mana on shield. In casual play though, crits are totally busted

[@nightwithoutk5679]

I like the idea for steve having his base minecraft just not like this overpowered move like it should have like a lag. In my opinion steve with wooden tools should not do a 70% just from 1 interaction like 35% or 47% is what the combo should be with wooden tools and with higher tools yeah keep the base damage.

[@nightwithoutk5679]

Also random question who do you think is the best character in smash at the moment?

[@MockRockTalk]

That's a pretty reasonable direction to take it as well! Within the standards of this video it's not really the ideal in my eyes because getting stone tools is very easy, and I can't make a suggestion that would completely rework all of the materials' power, but as a more general idea I think it's solid. As for the top character, it's honestly very hard to say. My answer is always "whoever has the best overall weighted matchup spread" and tbh I think that might _still_ be Pikachu, but it's really tough.

[@nightwithoutk5679]

I do agree that is who has the best matchup spread and pikachu just only has 2 losing matchups and steve i think has like 5 or 6 which is still good but not like pikachu. Steve is like GaW where he just invalids a lot of characters and has like amazing moves but because how he struggles with characters with really long range. like with the recent tournament with leo and acola it showed that steve really struggles with Byleth range.

[@nekiguess8304]

I think a fun idea for a Steve nerf would be locking specific materials from mining behind upgrading your tools. Right now there’s not really any incentive to craft until you either break your tools or find a diamond, so that’s basically all you’re doing. I think it would make more sense to actually make you progress and upgrade your tools, you start with wood and it can only mine dirt wood and stone. Once you get stone tools, only then do you unlock iron, which also means he’s not starting with the most powerful parts of his kit. Then obviously after stone you can craft iron tools, which unlocks gold redstone and diamonds. Also if you break your tool and are mining with your hands, you can only mine dirt and wood, not even stone, so you either have to save materials to craft new ones, or start all over again. It also makes early game tools more important since you actually have to use them to fight with. Instead of just ignoring the enemy to mine a diamond, you have to actually get the enemy off you with wood and stone so you have time to get better tools. And since you don’t start with iron, you can’t just cheese it with minecarts either, you do need to scrap a bit. Also this is less of a nerf but I think it would be cool that if you have both a diamond and a gold ingot you can choose to craft one or the other instead of defaulting to diamond. So basically after getting iron, you’re choosing between greater power or greater speed.

[@daringiconoclast6547]

Sonics forward smash is actually a really good reference to his home series. It's his side smash equivalent in Sonic Fighters (an old funny looking Tekken style fighter).

[@thunderd7904]

0:56 did MockRock just morph into “Cloud” Little Z?

[@loogi1831]

i won't unsee this now lol

[@YounesLayachi]

46:30 it's dumb because of the spike blastzone. It has to go. Spikes are already the most effective way to take stocks (due to gravity)

[@dextra_24703]

One thing I would like is if the rear egg doesn't explode on contact making a hot potato and cartoony situation of it being thrown around happen, for this also resetting its timer when thrown would be necessary.

[@danielhenderson6019]

You should make a video, "fixing all the echo fighters" or clones or whatever and going over every change you'd make to differentiate them

[@yowymer]

Genuinely an incredible ad because I spent the intro of the video going “Man I love how unkempt he’s getting over these videos” and then he just rips it all off for an ad. Touché good sir!

[@dimitridionissiou1000]

I think for Zelda, since basically her only strength is ledgetrapping, you need to keep Phantom hitting below ledge. It puts the opponent hanging on ledge on a timer, and it fits well into her kit. What I think she needs changed is the Hitbox on Nayrus Love removed, so it’s just intangibility. It’s supposed to be a defensive option.

[@gameboyn64]

Lol the point of this video is to make a sensible nerf if you had to nerf a character. Not gut an already mediocre move into oblivion.

[@dougpouncey]

My choice for Zelda would be to increase the amount of time it takes to manually send the phantom. I think the lower hitbox is fine, but what makes it strong is the fact that Zelda can send it at will and the opponent can’t react to it

[@egon3705]

very excited to see how you buff dedede in this video's inevitable counterpart

[@FlameEcho]

I think ironically the Pit changes might make them a bit more alike by taking away Dark Pit's arrow->dash attack combos. On the other hand I suppose the changes themselves would be fairly severe Pit loses key kill confirms, while Dark Pit has a significantly weakened core neutral tool and punish tool.

[@aidenzorn8322]

For Samus charge shot, I have a few ideas: Nerfs: 1) You could increase the startup lag on the charge and/or the shot to make it more reactable, thus making counterplay to the move possible from farther ranges (especially online). 2) You could make storing the charge laggier so that aerial approaches against poorly spaced charges are more effective, thus increasing the distance samus needs to put between her and her opponent in order to safely charge. This would also affect the risk-reward between storing and shooting, thus influencing Samus players to use stronger versions of charge shot less often. Reworks: 3) You could make it so that you could only store the charge when the shot is full charged, thus reducing samus's ability to get the fully charged shot and increasing faithfulness since only fully charging changes the attack's properties in metroid games. 3.1) If this goes too far, then you could reduce the power scaling for partially charged shots while keeping the power of the fully charged shot. This would also increase the combo potential of the move since it is weaker more often, thus allowing for follow ups at more charge amounts.

[@YounesLayachi]

Agree with 3.1

[@TimoDmon007]

Very interesting concept for both ideas ! If I especially like the rework, however I still think that increasing the lag of charging animation (start) or stocking animation (end) is going to bring another problem to the table. As MockRock said, it will be preferable to not encourage Samus to camp, and the 2 nerfs you proposed don't match with this criterias because: 1) if the charge storing animation is longer, than there's less combo potential, AKA less close range fight, AKA more camping 2) if the startup lag is increased, as you say, the Samus would have to balance that with even more distance, and thus more camping Except for those points, I totally agree with your take, good analysis man :)

[@CopperScott]

I was literally about to call you scruffy and then I saw that god-like ad read. Good job lol!

[@givecamichips]

On Hero, I think it could work if crits had a 0.7x knockback multiplier added so they didn't kill so early, but maybe slightly earlier than regular smash attacks. In RPGs criticals do more damage but usually don't have any reactions like knockback, so I think it would be fine reference-wise and would still keep him as the funny random character. And I never like to remove Special Zoom.

[@Twilight17Petkoton]

Yeah Zoom save you from being ko on Hero so don't remove zoom ok.

[@thepredman9lol266]

I really liked the video! I love how in depth you go and how considered all of your points are. But I did just wanna say on another note that I like both your hair and your shirt. They look cool :)

[@magmaboyx859]

Ngl I actually really like the “scruffy” hair

[@phoebe5114]

As a Ridley main, fun fact, the weak spot mechanic can actually be used for utility! It's very rare, but you can use it to survive an offstage kill move if the opponent can only throw out the one before recovering. Basically anything else is probably better, but it *can* be done and you can survive. It's a gimmick at best, but a neat one lol

[@nolanmoy1615]

Loved the idea of this video and the execution was great as well. Do you have any intentions of doing the opposite video? Will we see "Buffing EVERY Smash Ultimate character" in the future?

[@mmmCrunchyy]

this is the beginning of the mockrock evil arc

[@darienwhite6223]

I think Pichu was honestly a "door in the face" that was used to make Pikachu's power level seem more reasonable and less in need of nerf, at least at first.

[@amofro6612]

17:26 That face can def be turned into a template

[@laboa6860]

For Steve, I was thinking to make it where the powered rail variant can't be used in the air. I'm more of a casual player, so I don't know how much this correlates to competitive, but when recovering, my first instinct is to use minecart, so this change could help incentivise elytra a bit more, at least with horizontal recovery.

[@mrmediocre848]

Not the rain edit and crouch to emphasize the depression of nerfing Ganondorf, I can't even

[@stopmotionstupidity2440]

Make snake grenade come out 5 frames later. As a snake main, I can't tell you how good of a combo escape those grenades are

[@B3rT286]

How many people heard the nerds he would do to their main and thought “But they need it”

[@Sjono]

Sonic’s forward smash references his first fighting game, Sonic the Fighters

[@pieceofbread5311]

“A stiff breeze” one of the strongest moves in the game

[@bigtoblerone8446]

Now I'd like to see a video where you buff one thing about everyone :)

[@Ban-zx9se]

I thought you looked actually really nice with the longer hair. It definitely fits your vibe better, but the one you have now is fine too ofc! ^^

[@dubblebrick]

snake failing to recover at 43:04 is so funny

[@TypmitKFC]

You could revert ness's Smash attacks back to how they functioned in Brawl. That being, if it hangs off ledge, it will be instantly released

[@YounesLayachi]

5:20 it can be made so all but the fully charged shot are weaker, while the fully charged is slower

[@protomania3177]

Personal Samus nerf would have been to lower the hitstun values of charge shot at its lower charges. Personally don’t think charge shot needs the combo utility when it already very effectively conditions shields just by being charged, and the utility you get off just charging it I think would be more than enough to keep Samus’ zoner design more focused while also being a substantial nerf to the way Samus plays neutral at basically all percents.

[@peregrinehawk8363]

I think taking away Wolf flash combos wouldn't be a great nerf because even though they're cheesey and kill early, the only way he survives is if a link, duck hunt, or snake bomb blows him up after, his opponent directly saves him, or he lands on a Pac-Man trampoline.

[@Youzan808]

Wolf is cheesy af

[@Wouter4]

You actually look great during that manscaped ad

[@danielleanderson3971]

"Random trips" Sounds an awful lot like another infamous rng-based mechanic that dictates life or death in a game where everything is also already extremely chaotic.