Outboard Engines by Suzuki, Mercury, Honda, Evinrude to AVOID

Time to have a chat about all the worst outboards I have owned and had expierence with from all the major manufacturers.
Some of them may surprise you.

[@markheath9172]

Good to hear your feedback/experience on outboards. My friend has repowered with a new mercury 300 HP - which runs well and is quiet and good on fuel - but has been unreliable 3 warranty repairs in the first 18 months - all due to various sensor faults. Gone dual Suzuki 175's on my new Leisurecat after 12 years of very reliable running on my Suzuki DF200. One other point I would consider is servicing my Suzuki costs around $650 for a 100hr & my friend's Yamaha costs $980.

[@BaitBallin]

Wow. There you go, staring to hear the Merc stories rack up but rarely hear Suzuki, Honda, yammy issues. Dual 175s, sweet combo!

[@sjsisdhdjdkssosjdhxnx]

As an outboard mechanic of 20 years experience, this is my rating. 1. Yamaha 2. Suzuki & Honda 3. Mercury & Evinrude

[@BaitBallin]

Yep sounds about right 👍

[@joegoedhart1259]

Im not even going to read futher. I was wondering which 60 hp to buy. You have just told me. 👍

[@impartialinterest]

mate, that was so good. I've been doing my own research before repowering my 21 foot Buccaneer Billfisher with a ~ 200hp here in NZ and I've pretty much come to the same conclusions as you have. Heaps of stuff i never knew and learned from you, but the Honda intel, I feel exactly the same way, I'd buy one if they could get it lighter. Love the look of the Merc V6, but wondering about reliability. Some of the american outboards mechanics on youtube are saying the mercury got hacked and are struggling to supply parts and reliability is not as Japanese level yet. Kind of feel you could have said more about Yamaha. For example, their inline 4, is great, but requires high octane fuel - that's deal breaker for me. The Yam old V6 3.3 litre is heavier than their new 4.2 litre V6 (I think). So for even Yamaha haven't actually nailed it yet. Basically i want a nice torquey V6 like the mercury 200hp engine, but a Japanese one . . . . come Honda sort it out. ;)

[@BaitBallin]

Hey man yeah I don't talk about the Yamaha's much from a pure cost vs value and features point of view. Some top engines for sure. Yep, even since making this video truth is Suzuki STILL stacks up very very well against what else is on offer.

[@MichaelandMaryH]

No love for the Yammy? I have a F250 4.2 with 2300hrs and have done the Nizpro 332 tune. I highly recommend it to anyone. It made a huge difference.

[@BaitBallin]

Yeah man only talking about bad models! Love the yammys

[@no_triggerwarning9953]

Evinrudes are an orphan as they discontinued production in 2020 so parts availability will become an issue in the future. Another issue to consider is dealer network if you are outside a major metro centre. Yamaha and Mercury both have a large network this is especially an issue if the motor is under new warranty. Another point to consider with 4 strokes is the cost of servicing, does the engine have a cam chain and maintenance free valve train as opposed to a timing belt that needs periodic replacement and/or require valve adjustment. The horsepower ratings of engines can be +10% to -10% from their rating. The best place to find the actual HP is the USA EPA site, as manufactures are required to provide the data for certification in the US market. The 150HP mercury 4 stroke actually produces 162HP for example.

[@BaitBallin]

Hey man totally agree with all that. That's good to know re that site I will check that out!

[@joeythedime1838]

Just ran across your channel. Excellent insights on the outboard market. I have a 2016 Boston Whaler 210 Montauk that is rigged with a 2016 E-TEC 200HO G2. I love the power and low-end but now it needs a reasonable amount of work and getting support is tough, so I started looking at re-powering with a Suzuki 200AP.

[@BaitBallin]

Yeah man good move. Those etetc fly, but they are too gruff and noisy. 200ap won't disappoint, providing it's propped and set up right etc.

[@mattyp9472]

Got myself a second hand 7m fibreglass boat with a 175 merc Verado with just over a thousand hours an couldn’t be happier with it never had a drama great on fuel quite at idle to the point of people asking if it’s running, great motor 👍

[@BaitBallin]

Yeah definitely. They are smooth like a sewing machine.

[@zk8241]

I'm a subscriber to your channel so I post the following with respect. As you say some of your comments are based on personal experience (facts), some are based on playing with stuff (hmmm not really enough experience there to be quoted as facts) and some are just opinions ... and all of our opinions are based on our perspective which is based on how we plan to use the motors - so they need to be taken in that context. So I'll share here some of my own experiences re Merc and Yam for anyone interested just to balance the discussion. First re Merc. I've had a Merc 200EFI 2st from new 1999 to 2020 with no major issues - pretty good reliability from Mercury in my books. I replaced that with a Merc 150HP ProXS 3L which delivered the same torque and performance as the 200EFI 2 stroke, with half the fuel consumption. Yes the 150HP model motor was getting old (to me it means all the bugs had been ironed out), and yes it was cable controls, but as a 4Stroke repower of a 1990 Haines 6.35M fglass hull going DSC was not high on the priority list. What the 150HP delivered as a repower was exceptional performance, economy and reliability.... and it was simpler to work on than a car engine - 4 plugs, single overhead cam (lifetime warranty) etc etc. For anyone considering a cost effective bullet proof repower I posted the full performance comparison specs to the 200hp in this forum: community.deckee.com/topic/91455-repower-of-haines-635l-with-mercury-150hp-proxs-4stroke/ or check the this video for a snapshot: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pX7cqmeLjcp9ma8 So as is probably evident I was (and still am) a big Merc fan, but in early 2022 when we decided to upgrade our rig we ended up with a Yam. Why? Well you mentioned Joystick so I'll start with that. Looks gimmicky and if you are an experienced boatie who can already handle the rig in tight spaces (throttle, F-R shift and steering lock to lock turns) then I agree to use it just for steering is a gimmick. But if you are not as confident in tight spaces - it's a game changer - as an example my wife can spin our 7.2m boat in it's boat length with the joystick. But set the steering aspect aside, to have joystick control, you need to have DSC (digital steering & control) and also with the joystick you get Autopilot (GPS) which in turn enables a whole range of other functions. So if you just played with Joystick steering you have not experienced the full suite. Everyone understands Autopilot so I'll just focus on one of the other features - Fishpoint. Fishpoint is like spot lock - but the GPS + DSC uses the outboard to hold position - with a single engine. Merc didn't offer it on a single engine rig, many told me it doesn't work and it was all rumours and opinions. Here is the link to my video showing Fishpoint in operation on my rig: both inshore bait fishing and 23km offshore at the FAD. If you look at the video from 27:15 you will see the FAD in the background as a location reference. I don’t think any leccy could do better. kzbin.info/www/bejne/bX7YfYKcmLKaj80

[@zk8241]

Seems to have cut off the last comments: ... When in Fishpoint mode a bump of the joy stick moves you 3m in that direction, back forward etc etc. So I justified the expensive Joystick - by considering that I am also getting Autopilot, I don't need any bow or side thrusters for low speed manoeuvrability, and I do not need to spend money on an expensive leccy spotlock, additional batteries and charging gear. ... Cheers Z

[@BaitBallin]

Hey man all good. Yes all very valid points. Many are going with bow mount plates etc for spot lock capability if possible. The only reason I don't buy yammys is just genuinely the cost. I have friends, commercial operators who will literally only buy Yamaha's. The bottom line is, unfortunately there are good and not so good models of every range. The joystick functionality is just soooo damn expensive. My next rig will most likely have a bow mount with electric, but even that isn't cheap so will see what happens.

[@zk8241]

@@BaitBallin Well look don't look at it as if you're buying Joystick function ... consider that you are buying Autopilot and Spotlock, and the Joystick is included. ...

[@BaitBallin]

Yeah definitely. If you are doing the works / can afford it's a nice package.

[@johnwogboy19]

Yahama baby

[@BaitBallin]

Totally. I just can't afford one hahhaa

[@sjsisdhdjdkssosjdhxnx]

They are the best. Anyone who mentions a Mercury or Evinrude has never worked on one.

[@FinessaYT]

Got a 175 merc v6 four stroke in December 3.4L displacement same block as the 225 so it’s a little thirsty still doing 2.1km/L @40kmh (stacer 6.5m) already at 200 hours no issues so far, quiet as hell. On plane in 5 seconds reaching 75-80kmh in about 20-30seconds. And it looks the part 😁no complaint and very impressed coning from an evrinrude etec 2011 model

[@BaitBallin]

Yep agree. Bloody good the V6 range Mercs at moment.

[@FinessaYT]

@@BaitBallin thinking of getting it tuned for abit more power just for fun, maybe hit the 45-50 knot marks

[@FinessaYT]

@@BaitBallin my mates new sailfish s8 twin 200s is doing similar is not better economy, do you think that’s down to the twin hulls being more efficient or just the yammys being smaller and using less fuel, but they are much louder

[@BaitBallin]

The 4cyl 200s are definitely better on fuel. Not insanely better tho. I'd say it's combo of that and hull shape etc. You could also look at a prop change. Twins also work less. Less load equals less fuel etc.

[@merdel9663]

Picked up a new 300 verado 6 months ago, I've had various other engines over the years but nothing compares. Torque is insane and it's the quietest and smoothest engine I've ever owned

[@BaitBallin]

New one? Yeah both new and old model are sweet tbh. Supercharged range heavy on juice but still awesome. New ones even better.

[@merdel9663]

​@@BaitBallinyeah v8, it's unreal

[@BaitBallin]

Yeah definitely. Almost certainly my next engine also tbh.

[@duc99804]

I wonder if it be worthwhile doing a complete rebuild on a 225hp SWS 2 Yamaha 2 stroke given the new outboard prices? Currently with 900 hrs abs runs perfect. Top speed 75km/hr on a 680SF Encore HH.

[@BaitBallin]

I mean, I have had an outboard rebuilt and I have a mate who has had yammys rebuild. I probably wouldn't do it, could even find a low hours second hand motor to save some coin. Suzuki's and Mercs are good value these days. Yamaha not so much.

[@Rv7traralgon]

Maybe add the Yamaha 130hp 4 stroke, just sold mine after several different issues after 140hrs . Blowing the crankcase seal offshore and dropping all the oil was the final straw. Now gone to Suzuki

[@BaitBallin]

Wow?!!!! Haven't heard of this. Ohwell hope your Suzuki is better

[@Rv7traralgon]

@@BaitBallin jumped online and it’s a common issue , Yamaha didn’t want to know about it as it was just out of warranty

[@BaitBallin]

Ahh bummer. These Suzuki's are pretty sweet, hopefully this works better

[@Cammo-vp1gl]

I’m looking to upgrade my engine. Shortlist is ZUKE 300, Yammy 300 and Mercury v8 300. I need new steering so it’s cheaper to buy Yammy 300 DES than non DES. Helm master quote was $65K, absolutely insane price. DES 300 installed about $52K, Merc 300 4 stroke, not Verado but with power steering $48.5 and ZUKE with Power steering $41,700. Very tempted with the ZUKE 350 and waiting on quote but indications are similar price to 300 Yammy with DES. I’d go 350 ZUKE over Yammy if they are similar price.

[@BaitBallin]

Hey the Suzi 300ap is extremely good value tbh at moment. Verado 300 amazing and decent value also. Yamaha lovely, but bloody pricey.

[@Cammo-vp1gl]

@@BaitBallin I’m leaning toward the Zuke. Great value for money. I currently have the same engine as yours but, I’ve had so many issues I’m ready to rip it out. Waiting on quotes from a fiberglasser and correspondence back from Mercury Marine state service manager before I make my final decision.

[@BaitBallin]

Interesting. This thing running immaculate. Yep df300ap is the best value, top quality 300hp outboard on the market. That and the Merc 300 4 stroke.

[@Cammo-vp1gl]

@@BaitBallin mine was running well too, until things started to fail prematurely, not even five years old with bugger all hours and impeccable service history. I’m not going public about details just yet as I’m waiting for a response from Mercury Marine. Hopefully I’ll hear from them this week. In my scenario a heavier outboard would actually be beneficial as the boat was designed for 500kg of stern drive so to remove that weight effects the boats balance.

[@BaitBallin]

Interesting. Keep me posted how it goes. Did you get exhaust risers taken off and inspected etc?

[@jb243wp]

I love my old gen2 L4 verado's. If ya don't thrash them and keep the services up-to-date they will last forever.

[@BaitBallin]

Yeah haven't heard anything bad about them tbh.

[@davecobra9850]

I got a MERC 115 C.T, what an engine.

[@BaitBallin]

Yeah they are a beast 115. Just want them to update the look etc inline with rest of range

[@donninguyen5237]

Have you got personal experience with the duoprop suzys ?

[@BaitBallin]

Haven't owned one. Experienced yes. Nice, but heavy on fuel, very expensive, very heavy. Nice idea, but didn't quite nail the execution.

[@matthewarellano6359]

I just got my boat back yesterday with a brand new 200 yam and it was actually cheaper than the 200 merc v6

[@BaitBallin]

Wow! Nice

[@matthewarellano6359]

@@BaitBallin yeah I was surprised to be honest with you very happy with it we had a old gen 1 Etec 200hp H.O and the Yamaha is way better

[@BaitBallin]

Tbh I like my optimax, G1 and G2! But then you get better things and you look back and go hmm. Weren't that good.

[@matthewarellano6359]

@@BaitBallin yeah your not wrong

[@Sim00110]

Disagree with you on the duo prop zuks.

[@BaitBallin]

Not saying they aren't cool, they just haven't matched the hype. Heavy, don't look good and fuel economy isn't as good as it should be. Basically the duo prop set up isn't giving them as much advantage as it should. Its probably why no other manufacturers are bothering with this tech in that hp range. Looks like people for going for twins is the recommended way in the outboard world. Would love to see the new 400hp plus Mercs with duo prop

[@Cammo-vp1gl]

I'm looking at either the 300 single prop or 350 Zuke with duoprop. Do you have first hand experience? I'd like to hear your opinion as I'm very close to purchasing. Fuel economy is important to me so if you have any figures you could share. I'm repowering a Whittley SL26.

[@BaitBallin]

I'd honestly go the ste standard 300ap single prop. What I can guarantee is that the duo prop isn't more fuel efficient and costs a big whack more of cash. If money had no meaning to you, go duo prop. I've been through this equation many times as I've strongly considered the 300 and 350b series myself.

[@BaitBallin]

If I was in your position and you aren't completely sold on a Suzuki, I'd price up a new 300 V8 verado. Heaps of grunt, light weight and ultra smooth.

[@Cammo-vp1gl]

@@BaitBallin I'm hearing good things about the Mercury outboards but, I'm a bit pissed off with Mercury at the moment due to issues with my current engine. That aside I've been advised to go the standard 4 stroke instead of the Verado. Same powerplant, difference is the AMS and exhaust valving in the Verado. I don't really care about switching from loud to quiet exhaust and the AMS is designed for multi engine fit-ups. The AMS takes away the harmonics and vibrations on dual, triple, quad etc. So I would just go the four stroke 300. Have to say though, I'm really leaning towards the Suzuki 300 AP. Great price and 6 year warranty means piece of mind. Built in Japan is another big win for me. American technology is good but they often miss the mark in build quality and reliability. Sadly, I am on a budget so must get the most out of every dollar being invested in this purchase. If money no issue, it'd be a new boat 😁